So your midgame difficulties are, I think, from expanding too fast. Harkonen has that inherit malus to production in villages UNLESS they're stacked with militia, which is a hefty investment. This combined with their bonuses to raiding to me suggest a faction that wants to build tall, capturing a few key nearby regions and fortifying them heavily, while launching raids on cooldown at their neighbors. Ironically by expanding so much you ran into the same problems Rabahn actually did when trying to Govern Arakis, in that he was trapped in a loop of having to brutalize the people to meet quotas, but then suffering from constant raids and rebellions. This was an intentional ploy by the Baron who wanted to make Feyd beloved when he took over from Rabahn later. This is reflected in Feyd's bonuses as a counciller if you pick him, which causes him to generate extra resources for you for defeating rebellions (which incentivizes you using oppression constantly to provoke them) The game does however need MUCH clearer indicators of what causes rebellions, when they're going to happen, and where. The fact they just pop up randomly isn't right, there at least needs to be some sort of 'tension' gradient you can read in a region if they want to keep it vague.
Rebellions don't just happen randomly as far as I can tell (I've only played one game so far so I could be wrong), rebellions are caused by operations that other players play on you, Fremen advisor Chani's Incite Rebellions ability which is connected to Landsraad votes, or the result of Oppression timing out, there's a red magnifying glass icon that pops up saying 'an opponent has played this operation on you' that he never looks at because he's playing on high speed. What I'd like for dealing with rebellions is some kind of operation that can prevent or weaken them or make an enemy's use of a rebellion operation backfire on them. I'm not sure if any of the ones we have are useful for that. Or maybe a building that enables your militia/missile bases to be used to fight against rebellions? Otherwise if you have any outlying villages that are outside convenient airbase range there doesn't seem like there's much you can do to keep them from getting sniped by rebels very cheaply, even if you invest heavily in militia for them. It feels like it makes total airbase coverage pretty much mandatory, and if it's like this when we get multiplayer people will be able to cause newly captured villages to rebel soon after the conquering army leaves before an airbase is built - either a large part of your army will be tied to the village they just conquered for an extended period or you'll lose the village you just spent a lot of Authority to acquire, which seems pretty harsh.
There's a debuff that shows up above the city name when you click on the city. It shows a 2% chance for rebellion and stacks each time you use oppression. I agree it's not very visible. Should show up above cities on the board as well. Also what xero said, there were a lot of times the ai started a rebellion. They use that operation a lot on hard difficulty
Interesting... Potato took the advisor that made crushing rebellions really good, which in turn means running oppression all the time is really good, but I think he's still traumatized from all the rebellions he fought as Atreidies.
Potato, I'm not sure if you noticed (I'm only halfway through this episode), but missing those spice taxes comes with a large Hegemony penalty, in addition to the reduced Landsraad standing. Like, when you open the Hegemony detail window, a large percentage of your points come from successfully paying spice taxes to the Emperor. I mention it because you were wondering why the other factions were pulling so far ahead of you in Hegemony, and I think missing so many tax payments was the main reason.
To answer potato's implied question here in "it feels like the worm always come if there's fighting in the desert" I'll offer this quote from the original Dune "According to Idaho’s report shields are dangerous in the desert. A body-size shield will call every worm for hundreds of meters around. It appears to drive them into a killing frenzy. We've the Fremen word on this and no reason to doubt it." -Thufir Hawat Fremen also use what is effectively a pretend shield generator as worm bait in children of dune, as a more effective version of the thumpers they use in the first book, so coming every time there's a fight in the desert seem pretty legitimate.
Plus on top of that, sandworms can hear the vibrations of footsteps on the sand. If you are bringing as many troops as potato is, it can definitely hear the footsteps they make during combat. Combine this with the possible use of shields for very angry worms (who want worm food in the form of troops)
I've had a pretty awful week so having these videos to come to has been awesome even though I sadly know nothing about the Dune universe it is just fun to watch you play games. Per usual thanks for the awesome content Potato!
Really enjoying your plays of this. Helping me bide the time until I can afford it myself. 😌 Horrendous month for money in the Molova house. Need more spice fields
The Fremen are why you keep having rebellions its part of their gameplay to sabotage the bigger factions and i think the way they work is fine tbh. Its a very minor inconvenience bigger factions have to deal with that offsets how much more power over the political game they have vs smugglers and fremen. You always run risk of passing a bill that triggers the fremens rebellion perk. I think when you play the other 2 factions you'll understand better why its a good system and works fine. I also don't think the harkonen's playstyle is centered on mass expansion but rather over developing a few areas and raiding people constantly. Smugglers and fremen seem way more expansion-based to make up for their downsides.
The way I see it, the game looks much much better when it's more active. The operations felt crucial instead of just being there for flavour. The constant struggle to control key areas, the harassment of enemy positions. It definitely has potential. They should remove the malus for automatic evacuation for harversters imo, unless the manual order also costs something, in which case they should cost the same.
I feel like harvester evacuation needs two changes. First, it's supposed to be a risk/reward decision, but there really isn't enough of a reward to justify the risk. +5% production is, like, a rounding error. Second, the manual evacuation option is kind of dumb. Instead, the player should have two automatic options: play it safe (guaranteed auto evacuation) with a production penalty--and make the penalty big (at least 10-15%). Alternately, you can order harvesters to work up to the last minute before they auto evacuate, which gives you better production, but also a % chance to not make it out in time when a worm comes.
The point of that is if you keep your harvesters off of auto-evac, you can squeeze a little extra production from them by risking not noticing the sand worm alert in time. If there wasn't any penalty, there'd be no point to the entire mechanism.
Imo, the whole thing should be a decision to use a carryall or not at all. Pay an upkeep to have the harvester fly around quickly, or have it drive back and forth with the risk of getting gobbled by the sandworm.
To destroy an enemy base effectively you need to target their economy, the easiest way to do this is with missions. I think you would have more success if you used crowd manipulation and the mission that steals resources(forgot the name ). That is why i think intel is one of the most important resource, In your place I would replace 1-2 knowledge facilities with intel as it would give you enough resources to sustain constant missions or put more spys on infiltrating factions. Stealing resource missions gives you 30% of the selected region resources to you. This would enable you to trade intel for resources as well as disable the enemies economy. Pair this with crowd manipulation you would be able to disable 2 spice fields at least. This is why I think if you want to expand aggressively using intel to its maximum capacity is almost essential.
One thing I've been wondering. You always had a solari problem, and a lousy exchange rate. Also low on influence. Wouldn't it been nice to trade more with all other players? Trade spice for anything that seems a good deal and trade that stuff again for solari and influence! You had a lot of turrets, with 6 militia instead of 3, aren't you the faction that needs them least (except on the front)?
Potato you were doing alright but you practically exiled your pillaging gameplay😂 your economy and expansion would have played much easier if you had been pillaging whenever possible before forcing expansions
![Dune: Spice Wars - House Harkonnen Gameplay - [3/3]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ClzxJX1TmZA/mqdefault.jpg)
![Dune: Spice Wars - House Harkonnen Gameplay - [3/3]](/img/tr.png)
So your midgame difficulties are, I think, from expanding too fast. Harkonen has that inherit malus to production in villages UNLESS they're stacked with militia, which is a hefty investment. This combined with their bonuses to raiding to me suggest a faction that wants to build tall, capturing a few key nearby regions and fortifying them heavily, while launching raids on cooldown at their neighbors.
Ironically by expanding so much you ran into the same problems Rabahn actually did when trying to Govern Arakis, in that he was trapped in a loop of having to brutalize the people to meet quotas, but then suffering from constant raids and rebellions. This was an intentional ploy by the Baron who wanted to make Feyd beloved when he took over from Rabahn later. This is reflected in Feyd's bonuses as a counciller if you pick him, which causes him to generate extra resources for you for defeating rebellions (which incentivizes you using oppression constantly to provoke them)
The game does however need MUCH clearer indicators of what causes rebellions, when they're going to happen, and where. The fact they just pop up randomly isn't right, there at least needs to be some sort of 'tension' gradient you can read in a region if they want to keep it vague.
This is probably one of the best comments I've read on youtube. Potato becoming Glossu Rabban is an entertaining thought.
Rebellions don't just happen randomly as far as I can tell (I've only played one game so far so I could be wrong), rebellions are caused by operations that other players play on you, Fremen advisor Chani's Incite Rebellions ability which is connected to Landsraad votes, or the result of Oppression timing out, there's a red magnifying glass icon that pops up saying 'an opponent has played this operation on you' that he never looks at because he's playing on high speed.
What I'd like for dealing with rebellions is some kind of operation that can prevent or weaken them or make an enemy's use of a rebellion operation backfire on them. I'm not sure if any of the ones we have are useful for that. Or maybe a building that enables your militia/missile bases to be used to fight against rebellions? Otherwise if you have any outlying villages that are outside convenient airbase range there doesn't seem like there's much you can do to keep them from getting sniped by rebels very cheaply, even if you invest heavily in militia for them. It feels like it makes total airbase coverage pretty much mandatory, and if it's like this when we get multiplayer people will be able to cause newly captured villages to rebel soon after the conquering army leaves before an airbase is built - either a large part of your army will be tied to the village they just conquered for an extended period or you'll lose the village you just spent a lot of Authority to acquire, which seems pretty harsh.
There's a debuff that shows up above the city name when you click on the city. It shows a 2% chance for rebellion and stacks each time you use oppression. I agree it's not very visible. Should show up above cities on the board as well. Also what xero said, there were a lot of times the ai started a rebellion. They use that operation a lot on hard difficulty
What's the name of game
@@nadireselimi1128 DUNC obviously
no it's Dune: Spice Wars
Interesting... Potato took the advisor that made crushing rebellions really good, which in turn means running oppression all the time is really good, but I think he's still traumatized from all the rebellions he fought as Atreidies.
What s the name of this game
@@nadireselimi1128 it's LITERALLY in the video's title...
Potato, I'm not sure if you noticed (I'm only halfway through this episode), but missing those spice taxes comes with a large Hegemony penalty, in addition to the reduced Landsraad standing. Like, when you open the Hegemony detail window, a large percentage of your points come from successfully paying spice taxes to the Emperor. I mention it because you were wondering why the other factions were pulling so far ahead of you in Hegemony, and I think missing so many tax payments was the main reason.
To answer potato's implied question here in "it feels like the worm always come if there's fighting in the desert"
I'll offer this quote from the original Dune
"According to Idaho’s report shields are dangerous in the desert. A body-size shield will call every worm for hundreds of meters around. It appears to drive them into a killing frenzy. We've the Fremen word on this and no reason to doubt it." -Thufir Hawat
Fremen also use what is effectively a pretend shield generator as worm bait in children of dune, as a more effective version of the thumpers they use in the first book, so coming every time there's a fight in the desert seem pretty legitimate.
Plus on top of that, sandworms can hear the vibrations of footsteps on the sand. If you are bringing as many troops as potato is, it can definitely hear the footsteps they make during combat.
Combine this with the possible use of shields for very angry worms (who want worm food in the form of troops)
Everyone talks about Harkonnen oppression, but nobody talks about Harkonnen depression.
"It's ok to flounder a bit when you're learning", says the man playing hardest difficulty on permanent triple speed!
I've had a pretty awful week so having these videos to come to has been awesome even though I sadly know nothing about the Dune universe it is just fun to watch you play games. Per usual thanks for the awesome content Potato!
I read the books after seeing the movie. Can wholeheartedly recommend them
The last attack came with the storm like in the actual book hahaha nice
This is clearly Potato expertly showcasing the effect of the different houses' playstyle along with displaying different victory types.
You've really sold me on this game, I was skeptical at first at the idea of a real-time 4x game but this looks like great fun!
What timing! Just finished part 1 lol. Please please please do these as a regular content! So good
not gonna lie. i just noticed the spice eyes in the intro. well played potato
Really enjoying your plays of this. Helping me bide the time until I can afford it myself. 😌
Horrendous month for money in the Molova house. Need more spice fields
Have loved these videos! Watched the Atreides first and working through them in order. Super fun looking game and I love the commentary too!
The Fremen are why you keep having rebellions its part of their gameplay to sabotage the bigger factions and i think the way they work is fine tbh. Its a very minor inconvenience bigger factions have to deal with that offsets how much more power over the political game they have vs smugglers and fremen. You always run risk of passing a bill that triggers the fremens rebellion perk. I think when you play the other 2 factions you'll understand better why its a good system and works fine. I also don't think the harkonen's playstyle is centered on mass expansion but rather over developing a few areas and raiding people constantly. Smugglers and fremen seem way more expansion-based to make up for their downsides.
The way I see it, the game looks much much better when it's more active. The operations felt crucial instead of just being there for flavour. The constant struggle to control key areas, the harassment of enemy positions. It definitely has potential. They should remove the malus for automatic evacuation for harversters imo, unless the manual order also costs something, in which case they should cost the same.
If anything they should reward you more for actually doing it manually
Also this isn't an issue for the Fremen at all.
I feel like harvester evacuation needs two changes. First, it's supposed to be a risk/reward decision, but there really isn't enough of a reward to justify the risk. +5% production is, like, a rounding error. Second, the manual evacuation option is kind of dumb. Instead, the player should have two automatic options: play it safe (guaranteed auto evacuation) with a production penalty--and make the penalty big (at least 10-15%). Alternately, you can order harvesters to work up to the last minute before they auto evacuate, which gives you better production, but also a % chance to not make it out in time when a worm comes.
The point of that is if you keep your harvesters off of auto-evac, you can squeeze a little extra production from them by risking not noticing the sand worm alert in time. If there wasn't any penalty, there'd be no point to the entire mechanism.
Imo, the whole thing should be a decision to use a carryall or not at all. Pay an upkeep to have the harvester fly around quickly, or have it drive back and forth with the risk of getting gobbled by the sandworm.
This convinced me to buy the game. I'm hoping for multiplayer
Shoutout to the excellent blue-eyed potato in the intro :D Such a nice touch,
The desert takes the weak. My desert. My Arrakis. My DUNE.
Can you imagine how much Anakin Skywalker would hate Arrakis?
Tatooine is basically Arrakis, so plenty.
To destroy an enemy base effectively you need to target their economy, the easiest way to do this is with missions. I think you would have more success if you used crowd manipulation and the mission that steals resources(forgot the name ). That is why i think intel is one of the most important resource, In your place I would replace 1-2 knowledge facilities with intel as it would give you enough resources to sustain constant missions or put more spys on infiltrating factions. Stealing resource missions gives you 30% of the selected region resources to you. This would enable you to trade intel for resources as well as disable the enemies economy. Pair this with crowd manipulation you would be able to disable 2 spice fields at least. This is why I think if you want to expand aggressively using intel to its maximum capacity is almost essential.
"Little bit of oppression never hurt nobody."
When you defeat an opponent, is there a defeat animation of leader like in Civilization VI?
Sadly not. Then again the game is early access
@@galador8089 Pity. :( I think it would be cool if the leaders would get a defeat animation and an assasination animation too
The base blows up like fireworks. Potato didnt show cause he missed it lol
* lord V Harkonen applauding from the back for his victory while caughing...
Every time I end up playing defensive, usually I rush money and spice and get a good economy going
Video #3 in this series is hidden for some reason?
There’s an operation in the 400 which makes an enemy base do -50% damage and take +50% more damage, I think it would’ve helped ur siege a lot more
My guess was that the smugglers were murdering your income with their underground structures.
Good stuff. Looking forward to the conclusion.
One thing I've been wondering. You always had a solari problem, and a lousy exchange rate. Also low on influence. Wouldn't it been nice to trade more with all other players? Trade spice for anything that seems a good deal and trade that stuff again for solari and influence!
You had a lot of turrets, with 6 militia instead of 3, aren't you the faction that needs them least (except on the front)?
Thanks for the video
This game very slightly reminds me of stelaris
Potato you were doing alright but you practically exiled your pillaging gameplay😂 your economy and expansion would have played much easier if you had been pillaging whenever possible before forcing expansions
hmm, i think you just accidentally did the first book.
the worms seem kinda pointless
Your mom likes my worm
@@PotatoMcWhiskey this is why we sub to you! 😁🤣
U seem to forget a lot. N miss simple things like wind speed and voting. Bit frustrating to see ur gameplay is messy.