PJ arm History - Rain Bird Impact Sprinklers
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- Опубликовано: 7 фев 2025
- Rain Bird, designed the PJ arm that we know today. It is the anti-backsplash arm that solves the issues that I experienced in all of my maintenance of our part circle impact sprinklers. The spoon arm that Rain Bird had in the brass sprinklers and of course their newer sprinkler the BlackBird, sent the water to the right side of the sprinkler creating an issue that meant a splash guard was necessary. A neighbor of our a couple of doors down showed me a relatively new sprinkler that had this tube that came out to the side and then shot the water straight out to the front. I remember him creating the same on some of his sprinklers in his experimental work and he was pretty successful. He saw how cutting the spoon off at the right place and welding the tube into place. I do not know how successful his experiments were trying to recreate the Rain Bird brass sprinklers. I think it was a couple of years later, late 1960's Rain Bird created the P5-PJ model as I show here in the video. About a year or two later Nelson came out with their version of the anti-backsplash arm impact sprinkler.
Rain Bird also applied the tube design on their larger sprinklers after they saw the success in the consumer models and they too were quite successful. I did not show any of the larger sprinklers, as my main goal was to show how all of these other brands and cheap sprinklers are copies of the P5-PJ design. Sure the tail is different, but they are head heavy where the Rain Birds are more balanced. Even the brands that basically duplicated the P5-PJ model have done so saving money in their production. Still, no matter whether it is a copy of the Rain Bird original, or just a copy of the PJ arm design, it is still a copy.
The Brass models now copy the model Rain Bird 25, to a great extent, much like that of the Orbit and there are others out there that look like the rain bird arm or the Orbit arm. Many of those copies shoot the water anywhere from 30-60 degrees to the right defeating the intention of the PJ arm. I have purchased many of these cheap, no name models and have seen how they differ from the standard Rain Bird creating the original designs.
If you have anything to add please feel free to share as I do not have all of the answers. I am learning from all of you too.
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Nice collection of impacts you have! Great explanations of the designs of these treasures!! Can’t wait to see them in operation. Thanks for sharing your collection..!
When I was younger i liked the design of the P5PJ and P2PJ. ( i think those are the models ). Both the one with the darker colored green deflector and adjustment and the brighter turqouise ones. I also had a older blackbird with the brass spoon arm. I remember a lot of neighbors had the P5PJ design on the rainbird base and they were good sprinklers.
It is interesting how you remember some of the same things as I experienced. I am not familiar with the P2PJ design model. I have an original P5-PJ model that I can fully take apart. The newer one that I was showing cannot be disassembled at the bearing sleeve and bearing nipple like we could back in the old days. The bearing nipple is attached to the body and is not removable like the older ones. The bearing sleeve cannot be removed on the newer ones unfortunately. I remember watching the neighbors sprinklers across the street as I sat on the street curb. They were all blackbirds, with the brass spoon arm. The PJ arm had not been invented yet. I was like 7-8 years old.
EDITED: I just did a search for the P2-PJ model and I do remember it very well. I do not know why it did not last long on the market. I have tried to find them and they too are literally non-existent, like the Raintime sprinkler I am trying to find. The P2 model was a unique design, befitting the Rain Bird engineers. I never ever got a chance to put my hands on one and maybe one day I will get lucky and find one. There is a 34 second video on it and it was obviously designed for lower pressures.
You are getting a pretty extensive collection of PJ style impacts. A lot of similarities in the plastic impacts to the Rain Bird model. It seems some of the no name brands copied the design, but didn't understand the PJ characteristics fully and had that slight curve at the end.
This is so very true. Most of the Chinese models are oriented with a little bit of a lip at the end which sends the spray to the side defeating the purpose of the PJ design. I have though purposely gone through the effort of collecting a wide variety of the plastic models as well as the brass models. I am hoping that when it warms up I will get the chance to test them all out besides a number of unique models that I have manged to pick up as well. I will be pointing out the models that have failed to meet the intent of the PJ design, and hopefully show that it is missing the mark. I know it is a hobby, but I love getting into the details of how they work and especially the experimentation, which I hope to do a lot more of, considering all of the parts I now have. thank you for watching.
@@randyvanheusden732 That's great you have been collecting a variety of impacts to try out. I have also added a few new ones for the coming spring and summer season. I have one video in the works from early last fall I still need to edit.
@@photocontrol I will be looking forward to seeing your new videos.
Very cool collection
Great video, and a great explanation of the often copied PJ tube. I really love how you step folks through the practical engineering using understandable language. Regarding the PJ age, I’ve seen them in my 1963 catalog. They filed the patent back in 1959 and it was granted in 1962. I don’t have catalogs from 1959-1962, but I wouldn’t be surprised if the 25 and 35 had that option those years. What’s interesting to me is my old Rain Bird impacts that started life with the PJ designation still have a PJ tube on them. Other manufacturers seemed to have them fail at a much higher rate, just based on the number I’ve seen where they’ve obviously fallen off. Such a brilliant innovation. Thanks for reminding me of those metal shields people put up. They also had those in ag settings. I have a 1st generation Rain Bird 35 from the 1950’s where they incorporated that shield, in beautiful brass, into the sprinkler as a massive anti-backsplash shield. Buckner did the same thing with some of their impacts of the era that attempted to fight backsplash.
Nice explanation of the need for friction washers, too.
Thank you. It is kind of funny in a way as I look at these sprinklers everyday and did not think about the fact that they all look very much alike, even though they work differently from each other. I am trying to learn more about the spacing area that is needed for the arm to work correctly. That open space before the PJ portion of the arm that is open and how much open space is necessary for it to work correctly and how much can I close it up to prevent the left side splash. Anyway I am still learning more as I play, experiment, and test.
Thank you for sharing the additional information about the earlier days of the PJ tube. I have to think that part of the difference with other manufacturers and Rain Bird in how they were attached, is I think the Rain Bird tubes were welded, while the other companies soldered them on. Regardless, there is no doubt the better quality of their tube installation. As much as I like some of the designs of other sprinkler companies, there is no doubt there is a reason for the longevity of the Rain Bird company. One thing for sure they had some brilliant engineers doing some amazing design work and I am sure there was a lot of trial and error along the way. I never forgot my neighbor trying to recreate the design with some of the older sprinklers he had to help eliminate those backsplash units behind the sprinkler. I do not remember if he ever got any of them to work.
I know the Nelson Alpha II, Champ U61 with the PJ tube were really good about shooting it straight out in front. The Rainbird PJ tube arm was the same way. I believe Rainbird's 25PJ-DA-C (the same head thats in the 15111B) that used the open ended arm Also was this way. When companies started going with the open ended PJ arm that usually alot of the zinc sprinklers used(and Orbit with their brass head as well) had the PJ arm direct the water more to the right and sometimes out of the hole in the PJ arm so it came out the left side as well. I seen a video of Devin's Orbit Satellite brass popup that has the brass head with the PJ tube but it too spits the water out the left side due to a big opening in where the water enters the PJ tube. I have a few cheap plastic sprinklers and they too shoot the water too much to the right so it's really not a PJ arm per se, more like a PJ spoon. My Melnor plastic impacts are this way too. Very informative video. Thank you for sharing. I believe if you want good operation and water to stay on the area you're watering and off the sidewalk or areas that need to stay dry, you need to stick with Like the Nelson Alpha II PJ, or Beta II PJ (both have a good design on the PJ arm and PJ tube, or a Rainbird P5-PJ or a 25PJ (either the tube style or open ended). I see too many sprinklers at stores like walmart that use the cheap PJ spoon type design of the PJ arm and just waste water because it shoots too far to the right.
Thank you for your reply as you definitely got the jest of my point with the cheaper sprinklers and how they defeat the purpose of the Rain Bird design. I am not sure they care, but it is evident that if you want the sprinkler to work right it pays to spend a little extra for the correctly designed PJ arm. Most people do not know what I am sharing here and that there is a difference. The new P5-R model which Orbit copied as well are excellent sprinklers in their operation. I have hunted for copies of that design and although I have found them, cannot get them. I want to see how they compare to the original. I have a bunch of worn out zinc arm models that come out of China, and I do not know if they even work and will find out when I test them. I was surprised that the Western Brass U61 design and others were allowed to copy the Rain Bird designs, but I do not know the legalities of what went on behind the scene. The one experimental model that I chose to file down that lip on the edge that would shoot the water to the right, caused it to not work at all and now I am experimenting to see how I need to do to make it work normally again. Again thank you for watching and sharing.
@@randyvanheusden732I have a Nelson impact that I believe is zinc and it resembles more of the many zinc impacts out today. I got this at a yard sale when I first got back into my hobby. I have a video of it. It's a bit of a slow mover but I took think it shoots water more out the side then in front of the head. The naan head I have a video of does the same. That was rescued from a broken tripod that I found that someone tossed out. The place where you hook up the hose to it was broken off. I believe they used cheap piping that broke over time. The PJ arm definitely was a big improvement over the spoon arm that so many sprinklers started with. A lot of people were getting tired of their sidewalk or side of their house getting hit with water that stained their house or got windows from the side splash. Me as a kid though I always loved the spoon arm over the PJ. Another example of good PJ arm design was my P65 Nelson. A good 1" impact that uses the PJ tube and that is designed correctly to keep the splash in front of the impact and not on the side. I believe the P65 is still made today although new I'm sure it's a couple hundred dollars. I believe it's made for large areas or the end of pivots.
@@NelsonBigGunP200Fan It is interesting as I find out about the zinc designs maybe good initially, but they wear out so much quicker than either a plastic or brass model. I have a bunch of zinc sprinklers that will likely end up as being parts for me to do repairs and experimentation. I have not gone through them all yet and want to do some videos doing so.
The PJ arm was a very smart design and it really created a more stable sprinkler and also gave control of the side splash now going directly on the lawn and covering some of the area that might not otherwise get covered. Now with the newer design of the P5-R model and the 2045 where the water kind of goes through an "S" shape to the side, and send it out to the front. I wish they made a larger model of the same sprinkler like in a 3/4" and maybe even a brass version. The smaller model actually serves a dual purpose and I understand their doing so in this design. It can be used in the canisters.
You mention getting back into the hobby. It was videos like yours and others that caught my attention that made me think I can make a video too, and so I pulled out my sprinkler box last year and promptly got back into the hobby and have grown my sprinklers to easily over 200 now and still looking to test them all. The toughest job is testing the full circle models since I really do not have the space for it. I will figure out how to do it as that time comes. Actually I should be thanking you and others for getting me back into my first and still favorite hobby.
@@randyvanheusden732 do any of your FC models have a diffuser screw or distance flap and no problem I hope my videos encourage people to get back into hobbies.
@@NelsonBigGunP200Fan Some of the full circle models do have a diffuser, but the other do not have a deflector. I am thinking on how I can use a very stiff wire and make my own diffuser. On some of them like my 1" FC I may need to make more of a deflector than a diffuser. When the time comes I will figure it out. I do not want to water my neighbors cars and homes. I will be interested in seeing how my 3/4" models work on my system.
I would say one characteristic of a sprinkler that makes it a really good sprinkler, is that it is well-balanced, meaning that when you set it on a table it doesn't fall down. If you watch my video of the 1 inch 65d, it doesn't seem to shoot much water to the left. And the arm doesn't go all the way to the left hitting the body. When I filmed it I was right up next to it so I could tell there wasn't very much water coming my way. I was actually surprised about that.
Thank you as that falls right into the issues I have with many of these cheap sprinklers, which I have made now a considerable investment in with my large collection of over 200+ impacts. I am planning on doing a lot of testing when the weather warms up enough to reconnect the hose. So far the one sprinkler that seemed to have the least side splash was the plastic USA made Orbit model that I also did a video on and it was quite precise like Rain Bird designed. I have to admit I was surprised the amount of side splash more so on the cheap metal sprinklers that had no intention of quality and meeting the PJ standard. Thank you for sharing and there is much more to come.