To anyone wondering what this is and why I made it, this is the RR (Raised Reversed) stem. It is both Raised up and Reversed in offset so that your hands are ultimately behind the steering axis instead of in front as is traditional. The Raised height helps improve the riders stance with a better arm angle to the bars for confidence, proper bend in the elbows for control, and more rider weight supported by their legs instead of hands. It also gives a longer lever between their hands and feet to give them more leverage for maneuvering the bike. These help the rider to feel more comfortable and confident, and makes the bike more maneuverable. The Reversed offset improves and calms the steering dynamics. Since it arcs out instead of in when turning relative to the frame, it allows the rider to position themselves on the outside of the bike when cornering to load their side knobs properly while also leaning the bike in further for a kinematically tighter turn. The hand to front axle position parallels a 58 degree headtube angle for ultimate confidence in steep terrain, with a steering feel that is less floppy and more direct than the stock headtube angle of the bike with a traditional stem. These help the rider corner much better with improved feel of the front end, keep better balance in loose terrain, and feel more confident in steep terrain. I am consistently significantly faster riding on a bike with the RR stem relative to traditional 50mm - 35mm stems. I have gotten better race results, such as when I won 🥇 the Southridge USA DH Expert Men 19-29 race with a time 3 seconds faster than 3rd place in Pro Men, and I can now ride more technical terrain and bigger jumps than I ever could before using the RR stem. The RR stem has been in development for over 3 years testing all kinds of different heights and offsets on various bikes and terrain, always benchmarking against the traditional 50mm - 35mm stem. I tested anything from below traditional height to about 80mm taller than the RR stem you see here, and 70mm offset forward all the way to 70mm offset Reversed. The RR stem that I now sell on the Be More Bikes website: bemorebikes.com is the culmination of all of that testing to find the best Enduro mtb stem geometry with a -15mm Reversed offset. If you have any questions please leave a reply, or check out my Tech and FAQ’s page here: bemorebikes.com/tech-and-faqs.html I love having discussions. 🙂
@@kostello2011 Sizing up from the frame size that you already feel fits you best with a traditional stem to a larger frame is not necessary to use the RR stem. The RR stems Raised height pairs perfectly with the closer hand position from the Reversed offset so that you don’t need to upsize your bike. Typically to have a good angle of your arms to the bars and enough bend at the elbows for moving around in good form, you’re hinged forward at the hips such that your back is fairly horizontal. With the more upright position of the RR stem, you don’t need to account for as much horizontal torso length in the cockpit. Also, the total distance between your feet and hands increases for a roomier feel. I’m 5’8” and I’ve tested the RR stem on bikes with reaches from 405mm to 500mm, and I am always faster and in more control with an RR stem. I find about 460mm - 470mm is a good sweet spot for me. I currently ride a Trek Slash 29 in size M/L which is the same size that would otherwise be recommended for my height with a traditional stem. All of my customers that I have talked to have been very happy doing a direct swap of their existing traditional stem to the RR stem on whatever bike they were already using. The vast majority of them were not on particularly long or otherwise extreme geometry frames for their heights. You can certainly use the RR stem on a larger frame that otherwise may feel a bit unwieldy with a traditional stem though. Again, I’m 5’8” and I actually owned an XXL YT Capra 29 with a 500mm reach for a while to test if you needed a larger frame to work with the RR stem. That bike was sick because it was super long and stable, but because of the RR stems increased leverage from the Raised height, and the improved steering geometry of the Reversed offset, I actually gained maneuverability so it wasn’t hard to ride on tighter more technical terrain. I was even able to make some turns tighter on the XXL YT Capra 29 with the RR stem than I could with my 2013 size L Evil Uprising 26” with a 437mm reach and 4” shorter wheelbase with a traditional 50mm stem!
I had some issue with just stacking stem spacers, I experimented that with a 35mm stem on a 50mm rise bar with 8°up 15° backsweep, Which should somewhat put my hands around or behind steering axis, my grip measured 114cm off ground so that's significant. What I encountered was unable to weight the front wheel and whenever I lean the front, the front wheel would just slip out like I was pushing the tire sideways from my grip. Because of this unweighted front I was forced to climb over now raised and shortened cockpit and push down which leaves me high and unweighted on my feet. Anyway that was quite dangerous and I dialed it way back with a 35mm rise 6°up 12° back bar and 20mm less spacers, gained about 40mm reach in that change, instantly much more weight felt through my hands and no more pushing my tire sideway feelings. Although later I put a dual crown with 25mm stem still the same bar which brought my hands up and reversed maybe 5mm each way and didn't felt light on front end. The way I see it the only difference between my first failed attemp and the RR stem was the 35mm stem not being reversed, for a reversed stem with a straighter bar would give similar cockpit reach. Is this the magic I was missing? What's your view on this? I'd love to hear your input on this.
@@RiderP411 I would say ignoring that your hands were probably still not as far behind the steering axis and not as high as where I found performed best and just looking at the mechanics while also not having seen you ride or your bike and body dimensions, that yes it was probably due to the increased back sweep of those bars. Bars with high degrees of backsweep tilt your bar ends further in towards you. It’s kind of similar to if your left hand had been turned in further like you were turning left, and your right grip was turned in further like you were turning right while your wheel was kept straight. With your arms out straight, some people find those turned in bar ends more comfortable because your wrists can stay straighter to your arm instead of bending and pinching on the inner side of the wrist. When your arms are bent though in the attack position, and your forearms and elbows are flared out more, that straight wrist position is now aligned with bar ends that would be turned out more like on a straighter bar. Due to this, when riding with proper bend in your elbows for enduro mtbing in technical terrain, riders can experience bending and pinching on the outer wrist as it bends out more to meet the turned in bar ends of a bar with more backsweep. This is largely why I believe that relatively high backsweep bars are used more for bike packing and things of the sort where you are doing very long rides with your arms fairly straight and weight through your hands, since the large backsweep maximizes comfort with straight arms, and relatively straighter bars are used for more aggressive riding where the rider has their elbows bent and flared out, since they maximize comfort with bent arms. Individual wrist shapes vary so personal preference plays a large roll too. When you are turning left for example on a bar with a large degree of backsweep, your inner left grip that is already in essence turned in to the left will be turned even further in to the left. Your right grip will be turned out from being in essence already turned some to the right when the wheel is straight to turned to a more straight position. Relative to a more straight bar, your left grip will be in a position like it was turned much more than you actually turned, and your right grip would be in a position like it was turned much less than you actually turned. When cornering properly, your bike will be leaned over more than your body, and your body will be turned some in the direction you are turning. Your left arm will be dropping down fairly straight to meet your grip, and your right arm will be bent and coming up to meet your right grip. You should be loading the majority of your weight through your feet, and if you are loading your hands at all, you should be loading your right hand for a left turn to push down into the tire instead of your left hand which would be pushing down further in than your front tire subsequently not actually loading it much. Loading that left hand will bring your weight off of the front tire in the left turn and drop your weight inside while pushing to turn the bar straighter which can lead to the front feeling like it is being pushed out from under you. Loading your right hand in a left hand turn will more so be loading into the tire to help with feel of what it is doing. When cornering on a bike, you are in a constant balance of keeping your weight from falling inside and loosing traction, or standing up and ending your turn. Having good feel of the front tire is paramount to knowing if you are moving in the direction of falling in or standing up, and as such will help you find the balance of leaning, steering and counter steering to keep you in the turn. With that said, if we are to prioritize a bar sweep and wrist angle when turning left, we would want to focus mostly on what the outer right hand is doing. As I said earlier, your right arm is fairly bent when leaning the bike and turning left. Also as I said earlier, bars with less backsweep are best for when you are loading your hands with bent bars. Put all together, a bar with a large degree of backsweep puts your wrist in a suboptimal position with it bending out and pinching in the outer wrist such that loading it will be harder and less comfortable. Along with that, since you won’t be able to get your wrist in as good a position, and since the right side bar end is effectively turned in less than you are turning, getting a feel for how much to turn the bar can be harder. Along with that, that mismatch in how much you are trying to turn the bar relative to how much it is effectively turned and difficulty with loading your right wrist can shift your body further in to the turn loading your left hand, and leading to a sideways pushing feeling and potentially loosing the front end. I believe the climbing was also the same issue. Getting forward by bending your arms while keeping them behind and below the bar so you can pull back and down on it seated on steep climbs to keep it from lifting while keeping you forward like you would with the RR stem would be hard with the large backsweep not pairing well with the bent arms position. Getting up on top of the bar would put your arms at an angle where the bars upsweep would function more like backsweep and allow you then to use its low degree of upsweep like a low degree of backsweep and ride with your arms properly bent. That more vertical arm angle though is more consistent with pulling up on the bar if you don’t have enough weight on it, and can further a feeling of the front trying to lift on steep climbs. The RR stem used with a pretty typical bar sweep should not have these same issues. When I tested a large backsweep bar, I also noticed that I didn’t really like the cornering or aggressive riding position. My wrists were bent out and pinching the outer wrist much to often, and loading my hands when needed was harder. It was also harder to find the balance of how much to turn the bar and lean the bike, and made the front harder to manage. The RR stems position promotes good arm bend for the attack position and largely loading through your feet with very light hands. Getting that same position with a lot of backsweep will not ride the same.
My theory is that it works for you on the Nicolai G1, precisely because that bike has a pretty low stack height, very long chainstays and a ridiculously long reach. This seems like the only combination of circumstances where a raised reversed stem would influence the rider's center of gravity in a favourable manner. In any other case a raised reversed stem would push the riders center of gravity backwards, taking pressure off the front wheel and subsequently introduce understeer.
While I do agree that the Nicolai G1 is a great frame for using the RR (Raised Reversed) stem on, and does reflect more of where I believe mtb geometry should go, it’s not the only type of frame where the RR stem will work. Also I wouldn’t call a 630mm stack pretty low relative to most other enduro mtbs, it’s pretty similar to many other companies size large. Sizing up from the frame size that you already feel fits you best with a traditional stem to a larger frame with longer chainstays is not necessary to use the RR stem. The RR stems Raised height pairs perfectly with the closer hand position from the Reversed offset so that you don’t need to upsize your bike. Typically to have a good angle of your arms to the bars and enough bend at the elbows for moving around in good form, you’re hinged forward at the hips such that your back is fairly horizontal. With the more upright position of the RR stem, you don’t need to account for as much horizontal torso length in the cockpit. Also, the total distance between your feet and hands increases for a roomier feel. I’m 5’8” and I’ve tested the RR stem on bikes with reaches from 405mm to 500mm, and I am always faster and in more control with an RR stem. I find about 460mm - 470mm is a good sweet spot for me. I currently ride a Trek Slash 29 in size M/L which is the same size that would otherwise be recommended for my height with a traditional stem. All of my customers that I have talked to have been very happy doing a direct swap of their existing traditional stem to the RR stem on whatever bike they were already using. The vast majority of them were not on particularly long or otherwise extreme geometry frames for their heights. You can certainly use the RR stem on a larger frame that otherwise may feel a bit unwieldy with a traditional stem though. Again, I’m 5’8” and I actually owned an XXL YT Capra 29 with a 500mm reach for a while to test if you needed a larger frame to work with the RR stem. That bike was sick because it was super long and stable, but because of the RR stems increased leverage from the Raised height, and the improved steering geometry of the Reversed offset, I actually gained maneuverability so it wasn’t hard to ride on tighter more technical terrain. I was even able to make some turns tighter on the XXL YT Capra 29 with the RR stem than I could with my 2013 size L Evil Uprising 26” with a 437mm reach and 4” shorter wheelbase with a traditional 50mm stem! Also, your center of gravity is not necessarily that far back with the RR stem. Many mtb coaches recommend supporting all of your body weight through your feet and being balanced over the bottom bracket with minimal weight in your hands when riding in the attack position. The attack position originated in MX as a strong stable stance that lets the bike move underneath you with good bike body separation, good mobility, and gives good control and confidence. The RR stem through its independent testing process, trying various heights and offsets for over 3 years, has ended up putting the riders hands at a stack and reach that happens to be practically the same as what you would find on a MX bike. That same attack position can now be used properly on an mtb. If you are balanced over the bottom bracket with either type of stem, then your center of gravity will not be further back or further forward either way.
It's exactly like with human shaped shoes. Everyone knows that modern pointy shoes are horrible for your health causing bunions and tons of other problems. And yet everyone uses them and not barefoot shoes or simply foot shaped shoes. Peer pressure man.
I’ve never ridden one, but other reviews say it’s basically impossible to climb your bike with it on. The bars are so high and close that you hit your knees on them on anything resembling a tight switchback.
@@evanblackwell3920 This is an issue that I feel has been blown up out of proportion. From what I could see, this lack of knee clearance was an issue with technique from not having fully adapted to the RR (Raised Reversed) stem and with bike setup to better suit the RR stem. The RR stem actually works really well on tight switchbacks with the correct technique for using it. I much prefer it over traditional, and find I can turn tighter with greater ease tending now to take the sharper inside line on switchback climbs. This sentiment is echoed by my customers who have no issues climbing or going around tight turns. What you need to do is tilt the nose of your seat down some, and shift your butt forward on it a bit too. You can combine this with also shifting the seat forward on its rails some. With the seat in this position, it is easier to do a pedal stroke where you bring your knee in towards the frame, as if to point your knee at the stem, without the nose of the saddle getting in the way of your inner thigh. Along with that, this seat position helps you to not be so far over the rear on steep climbs so that the front stays down easier. Most times when I am pedaling while turning seated, and the bar could otherwise hit my leg, I simply bring my knee in towards the frame and lean the bike more under me. It’s muscle memory for me now, and I no longer even think about it. Sometimes I even bring my knee further out to clear the bar completely so that it can turn all the way, even to inline with the seat without obstruction. For taller riders, running the RR stem even taller with some steerer tube spacers under it will also help by allowing the bar to go over the knee and thigh. At 5’8” I run about 30mm of spacers under my RR stem. In The Loam Wolfs first rides review, the seat looked to be pushed back on the rails with the nose even pointed up some and the RR stem was run with 0 spacers under it to be as low as it could go. Along with that, the rider was tending to point their knee out in the direction they were turning. It can take some time to adjust techniques that you’ve become used to doing but given a proper chance, traditional 50mm - 35mm stems will actually be the ones that feel really weird and foreign.
I commented in your dreadnought review video about running super high bars (80+mm of rise) and you called them ape hangers! 😂 I’ve ridden the RR stem and 100% believe in the hype. Buying high rise bars just just a cheaper way to get approximately the same setup. I’m your height and ride a bike with near identical geo & size to your geometron. I won’t go back to conventional bar height.
It's leverage. And where your body is strongest to use it. I have always use a long quill stem on my rigid mtb (yes I'm old) and wider bars. It puts the bars in the sweet spot of your muscle group.
It would be interesting to try some mega high rise bars with a 30mm stem back to back with this. Deity makes a 80mm bar, Answer might make a higher one. Could even try a bmx race cruiser bar/stem to get up to the same height. I wonder it's the height alone that's beneficial, or if the bars being directly over the steerer tube plays a significant part in it.
The RR stem is both Raised and Reversed. Due to this your hands will be notably behind the steering axis of your frame instead of in front as they traditionally are. The Reversed offset improves and calms the steering dynamics. Since it arcs out instead of in when turning relative to the frame, it allows the rider to position themselves on the outside of the bike when cornering to load their side knobs properly while also leaning the bike in further for a kinematically tighter turn. The hand to front axle position parallels a 58 degree headtube angle for ultimate confidence in steep terrain, with a steering feel that is less floppy and more direct than the stock headtube angle of the bike with a traditional stem. These help the rider corner much better with improved feel of the front end, keep better balance in loose terrain, and feel more confident in steep terrain. A really tall bar or even a long steerer tube with a bunch of spacers or a stem riser would just be higher up without the Reversed offset, and as such will perform a lot differently. I tested anything from below traditional height to about 80mm taller than the RR stem you see here, and 70mm offset forward all the way to 70mm offset Reversed over the course of about 3 years always benchmarking against a traditional 50mm - 35mm stem. The RR stems geometry is what gave the consistently fastest times and most control. The Reversed offset is the main part to me, and works best in combination with the Raised height. That’s why it is a Raised Reversed stem. It is a Raised version of my Reversed stem philosophy. Just Raised up has some advantages, but the front end can get harder to manage if your hands are in front of the steering axis. Someday I believe most of the height will be built into frames with a much shorter height still Reversed offset stem sat atop. A really tall bar is also not ideal because it will move your hands quite significantly relative to the steering axis when adjusting bar role, and is more reliant on having a very strong hold at the bar clamp on the stem to keep the bar from slipping forward and back.
@@bemorebikes No offense, but it comes off as a little desperate for you to write all this in response to a comment suggesting a simple comparison to high bars. It seems like you're trying to prevent that from happening. I get it, the bars are a little behind the steering axis, just like people regularly adjust 6"-12" handlebars to that exact same position on BMX bikes. You are incorrect in saying "a really tall bar... would just be higher up without reversed offset" The taller a bar is, the more it can be adjusted forward and back and the less the sweep is affected. We have 50 years of BMX to look at that demonstrates this fact. The only difference your stem makes is that a mountain biker can use their existing low rise handlebars, making it a more simple swap. I assume this is not a sponsored video for this product, because that would have to be disclosed legally, so let the video speak for itself and leave the marketing speak on your website and media. Ease of installation is a great selling point, but saying there are some problems with tall bars in 2023 like "slipping" sounds like an infomercial. Olympic BMX racers don't experience slipping when jumping 45' doubles over and over. Have confidence and welcome comparisons if you believe in your product.
@@bermroller No offense is taken. I’m very passionate about mtb geometry, and I love having discussions about it. I’m sorry if that came through too intensely. My intent in my comment was not to prevent a comparison to a very high rise bar with a short forward offset stem. If someone wishes to do that, I actually highly recommend it! It’s a great way to get a feel for what does what, and is quite informative. You never learn if you don’t experiment! I know this because I’ve tried it many times. 😄 The first part of my comment was meant to highlight that to me it is the Reversed offset that is the important part of the design more so than the Raised height, and what it does. I got excited when you asked about that difference because most people focus initially just on the height. I’d rather ride the Reversed offset of -15mm at a more traditional height than a frame with a traditional stem at the height of the RR stem. I even did that for quite a while before experimenting with the Raised height and finding that they paired really well. The second part of my comment was meant to highlight the difference to just running a taller bar or front end. If you rolled a really tall riser bar with typical upsweep and backsweep back to achieve a similar geometry, you would need to roll it back to about 35mm - 40mm behind the steering axis to achieve the same hand to steering axis relationship. This would give quite a large degree of downsweep to the bar instead of upsweep which greatly effects how you can load and interact with the bar. Most riders feel a little bit of upsweep works best for their bar roll. Should you happen to be a rider that just likes a bar rolled back that much as far as bar sweep goes, then yes, there will not be any major differences in handling vs the RR stem and a low rise bar rolled back to equivalent sweep angles. For a given bar roll that would typically be used though, a really tall bar would just be higher up without the Reversed offset. Often times the effective stem length would actually be longer forward if you ran a really tall riser bar, but that depends on personal preference for bar roll. The third part of my comment was meant to highlight why I didn’t go with a very tall bar to get the geo of the RR stem, albeit with adjusted sweep angles for how far rolled back it would be. Bar roll is highly personal, and the relationship of your hands to the steering axis has a large effect on handling. A really low rise bar on a really tall stem won’t move your hands much relative to the steering axis for a fairly wide range of bar rolls. A really tall bar would move the hands significantly relative to the steering axis for relatively small changes to the bar roll. Since I don’t know what bar roll my customers will want, I figured the tall stem was a better method to ensure whatever bar roll they like they get a similar hand to steering axis relationship to what I designed. A really tall bar is more reliant on having a very strong hold at the bar clamp on the stem to keep the bar from slipping forward and back. This doesn’t mean it can’t be done though. BMX bikes, as you mentioned, do fine with very tall bars. What this does mean though is that should a bolt come loose or not have been tightened enough, it is more prone to slipping than a lower rise bar. It’s semi similar to how sometimes your bars may tweak from straight after a hard crash. I agree though that this is not a really big issue with proper use, it’s more just an added ease of reducing a potential issue if you don’t torque all the bolts properly. All this is to say that there isn’t anything inherently bad or unsafe about a really tall bar, I just don’t think it is ideal. I apologize if I didn’t portray what I was trying to say very well. I hope that this comes through a bit better even though it is very long also. If you have any questions, I’d love to further a dialogue and discuss anything about the RR stem with you. 🙂 Brian’s review of the RR stem was not paid for or sponsored by any means. He has no obligation or financial incentive to say anything good about it. I ran into him at Sea Otter and expressed that I was a fan of his Let’s Go Racing series. We talked for a bit, and I think I asked if he would be willing to do a review. He agreed, and I handed him a demo stem. As of fairly recently he got a chance to try it out, and has since sent it back since he finished his review.
@@bemorebikes As I said, the taller the bars, the less the sweep is affected by bar roll. I used to race cruiser cruiser class and, while I never took any measurements, I don't think the 6" tall S&M race cruiser bars I was using would end up with downsweep at all. With 4 up, 8 back my guess is the up would be maybe be at 1 degree, BUT on a mountain bike going up this much in height would dramatically change the angle the riders hands are interfacing with the bar at, so I think on any setup, including your stem, the rider would want to roll the bars back a bit from where they were to maintain the same sweep feeling. I also said above your stem is the simplest solution to getting the bars in this position, which is a great selling point. An objective 3rd party showing another way to get there, and testing back to back with the RR stem would likely be good for you even if the performance was similar. Most people likely wouldn't want to deal with having to figure out how to get the sweep they want and track down BMX products from sources they aren't familiar with. Other people might try the BMX route as a cheaper way to test the position, decide they like it and end up getting your product. I think it would make a very interesting video.
I’ve had the RR on my specialized Demo Race, Enduro, and Stumpy the past six months. I would never ride a bike without one. There so many benefits like less stress on hands, arms, back: better center weight, less likely to go OTB!
Thanks Mike! I really have enjoyed helping you get your different bikes setup with RR stems, along with your many orders. 😄 I’m so happy that you enjoy it so much!
this is the kind of thing i would love for my bike. 2 reasons why i dont have it. way too expensive looks a bit weird, but thats not too much of a problem
@janeblogs324 @meteormedia7021 @dezzydiamond7121 The RR (Raised Reversed) stem is not the same as a very tall bar. The RR stem is both Raised and Reversed. Due to this your hands will be notably behind the steering axis of your frame instead of in front as they traditionally are. The Reversed offset improves and calms the steering dynamics. Since it arcs out instead of in when turning relative to the frame, it allows the rider to position themselves on the outside of the bike when cornering to load their side knobs properly while also leaning the bike in further for a kinematically tighter turn. The hand to front axle position parallels a 58 degree headtube angle for ultimate confidence in steep terrain, with a steering feel that is less floppy and more direct than the stock headtube angle of the bike with a traditional stem. These help the rider corner much better with improved feel of the front end, keep better balance in loose terrain, and feel more confident in steep terrain. A really tall bar or even a long steerer tube with a bunch of spacers or a stem riser would just be higher up without the Reversed offset, and as such will perform a lot differently. If you rolled a really tall riser bar back to achieve a similar geometry, you would need to roll it back to about 35mm - 40mm behind the steering axis to achieve the same hand to steering axis relationship. This would give quite a large degree of downsweep to the bar instead of upsweep which greatly effects how you can load and interact with the bar. Most riders feel a little bit of upsweep works best for their bar roll. A really tall bar is also not ideal because it will move your hands quite significantly relative to the steering axis when adjusting bar role for preference, and is more reliant on having a very strong hold at the bar clamp on the stem to keep the bar from slipping forward and back.
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Dude what the hell! You were FLYING with that “unusual” stem!
Love the technicality in your videos and reviews, and appreciate the candid responses to trying out of the box bikes and parts to see what works
Appreciate it!
To anyone wondering what this is and why I made it, this is the RR (Raised Reversed) stem. It is both Raised up and Reversed in offset so that your hands are ultimately behind the steering axis instead of in front as is traditional.
The Raised height helps improve the riders stance with a better arm angle to the bars for confidence, proper bend in the elbows for control, and more rider weight supported by their legs instead of hands. It also gives a longer lever between their hands and feet to give them more leverage for maneuvering the bike. These help the rider to feel more comfortable and confident, and makes the bike more maneuverable.
The Reversed offset improves and calms the steering dynamics. Since it arcs out instead of in when turning relative to the frame, it allows the rider to position themselves on the outside of the bike when cornering to load their side knobs properly while also leaning the bike in further for a kinematically tighter turn. The hand to front axle position parallels a 58 degree headtube angle for ultimate confidence in steep terrain, with a steering feel that is less floppy and more direct than the stock headtube angle of the bike with a traditional stem. These help the rider corner much better with improved feel of the front end, keep better balance in loose terrain, and feel more confident in steep terrain.
I am consistently significantly faster riding on a bike with the RR stem relative to traditional 50mm - 35mm stems. I have gotten better race results, such as when I won 🥇 the Southridge USA DH Expert Men 19-29 race with a time 3 seconds faster than 3rd place in Pro Men, and I can now ride more technical terrain and bigger jumps than I ever could before using the RR stem. The RR stem has been in development for over 3 years testing all kinds of different heights and offsets on various bikes and terrain, always benchmarking against the traditional 50mm - 35mm stem. I tested anything from below traditional height to about 80mm taller than the RR stem you see here, and 70mm offset forward all the way to 70mm offset Reversed. The RR stem that I now sell on the Be More Bikes website:
bemorebikes.com
is the culmination of all of that testing to find the best Enduro mtb stem geometry with a -15mm Reversed offset. If you have any questions please leave a reply, or check out my Tech and FAQ’s page here:
bemorebikes.com/tech-and-faqs.html
I love having discussions. 🙂
So you need longer reach on your bike then usual?
@@kostello2011 Sizing up from the frame size that you already feel fits you best with a traditional stem to a larger frame is not necessary to use the RR stem. The RR stems Raised height pairs perfectly with the closer hand position from the Reversed offset so that you don’t need to upsize your bike. Typically to have a good angle of your arms to the bars and enough bend at the elbows for moving around in good form, you’re hinged forward at the hips such that your back is fairly horizontal. With the more upright position of the RR stem, you don’t need to account for as much horizontal torso length in the cockpit. Also, the total distance between your feet and hands increases for a roomier feel. I’m 5’8” and I’ve tested the RR stem on bikes with reaches from 405mm to 500mm, and I am always faster and in more control with an RR stem. I find about 460mm - 470mm is a good sweet spot for me. I currently ride a Trek Slash 29 in size M/L which is the same size that would otherwise be recommended for my height with a traditional stem. All of my customers that I have talked to have been very happy doing a direct swap of their existing traditional stem to the RR stem on whatever bike they were already using. The vast majority of them were not on particularly long or otherwise extreme geometry frames for their heights.
You can certainly use the RR stem on a larger frame that otherwise may feel a bit unwieldy with a traditional stem though. Again, I’m 5’8” and I actually owned an XXL YT Capra 29 with a 500mm reach for a while to test if you needed a larger frame to work with the RR stem. That bike was sick because it was super long and stable, but because of the RR stems increased leverage from the Raised height, and the improved steering geometry of the Reversed offset, I actually gained maneuverability so it wasn’t hard to ride on tighter more technical terrain. I was even able to make some turns tighter on the XXL YT Capra 29 with the RR stem than I could with my 2013 size L Evil Uprising 26” with a 437mm reach and 4” shorter wheelbase with a traditional 50mm stem!
I had some issue with just stacking stem spacers, I experimented that with a 35mm stem on a 50mm rise bar with 8°up 15° backsweep, Which should somewhat put my hands around or behind steering axis, my grip measured 114cm off ground so that's significant.
What I encountered was unable to weight the front wheel and whenever I lean the front, the front wheel would just slip out like I was pushing the tire sideways from my grip. Because of this unweighted front I was forced to climb over now raised and shortened cockpit and push down which leaves me high and unweighted on my feet.
Anyway that was quite dangerous and I dialed it way back with a 35mm rise 6°up 12° back bar and 20mm less spacers, gained about 40mm reach in that change, instantly much more weight felt through my hands and no more pushing my tire sideway feelings. Although later I put a dual crown with 25mm stem still the same bar which brought my hands up and reversed maybe 5mm each way and didn't felt light on front end.
The way I see it the only difference between my first failed attemp and the RR stem was the 35mm stem not being reversed, for a reversed stem with a straighter bar would give similar cockpit reach. Is this the magic I was missing? What's your view on this? I'd love to hear your input on this.
@@RiderP411 I would say ignoring that your hands were probably still not as far behind the steering axis and not as high as where I found performed best and just looking at the mechanics while also not having seen you ride or your bike and body dimensions, that yes it was probably due to the increased back sweep of those bars. Bars with high degrees of backsweep tilt your bar ends further in towards you. It’s kind of similar to if your left hand had been turned in further like you were turning left, and your right grip was turned in further like you were turning right while your wheel was kept straight. With your arms out straight, some people find those turned in bar ends more comfortable because your wrists can stay straighter to your arm instead of bending and pinching on the inner side of the wrist. When your arms are bent though in the attack position, and your forearms and elbows are flared out more, that straight wrist position is now aligned with bar ends that would be turned out more like on a straighter bar. Due to this, when riding with proper bend in your elbows for enduro mtbing in technical terrain, riders can experience bending and pinching on the outer wrist as it bends out more to meet the turned in bar ends of a bar with more backsweep. This is largely why I believe that relatively high backsweep bars are used more for bike packing and things of the sort where you are doing very long rides with your arms fairly straight and weight through your hands, since the large backsweep maximizes comfort with straight arms, and relatively straighter bars are used for more aggressive riding where the rider has their elbows bent and flared out, since they maximize comfort with bent arms. Individual wrist shapes vary so personal preference plays a large roll too.
When you are turning left for example on a bar with a large degree of backsweep, your inner left grip that is already in essence turned in to the left will be turned even further in to the left. Your right grip will be turned out from being in essence already turned some to the right when the wheel is straight to turned to a more straight position. Relative to a more straight bar, your left grip will be in a position like it was turned much more than you actually turned, and your right grip would be in a position like it was turned much less than you actually turned. When cornering properly, your bike will be leaned over more than your body, and your body will be turned some in the direction you are turning. Your left arm will be dropping down fairly straight to meet your grip, and your right arm will be bent and coming up to meet your right grip. You should be loading the majority of your weight through your feet, and if you are loading your hands at all, you should be loading your right hand for a left turn to push down into the tire instead of your left hand which would be pushing down further in than your front tire subsequently not actually loading it much. Loading that left hand will bring your weight off of the front tire in the left turn and drop your weight inside while pushing to turn the bar straighter which can lead to the front feeling like it is being pushed out from under you. Loading your right hand in a left hand turn will more so be loading into the tire to help with feel of what it is doing. When cornering on a bike, you are in a constant balance of keeping your weight from falling inside and loosing traction, or standing up and ending your turn. Having good feel of the front tire is paramount to knowing if you are moving in the direction of falling in or standing up, and as such will help you find the balance of leaning, steering and counter steering to keep you in the turn.
With that said, if we are to prioritize a bar sweep and wrist angle when turning left, we would want to focus mostly on what the outer right hand is doing. As I said earlier, your right arm is fairly bent when leaning the bike and turning left. Also as I said earlier, bars with less backsweep are best for when you are loading your hands with bent bars.
Put all together, a bar with a large degree of backsweep puts your wrist in a suboptimal position with it bending out and pinching in the outer wrist such that loading it will be harder and less comfortable. Along with that, since you won’t be able to get your wrist in as good a position, and since the right side bar end is effectively turned in less than you are turning, getting a feel for how much to turn the bar can be harder. Along with that, that mismatch in how much you are trying to turn the bar relative to how much it is effectively turned and difficulty with loading your right wrist can shift your body further in to the turn loading your left hand, and leading to a sideways pushing feeling and potentially loosing the front end.
I believe the climbing was also the same issue. Getting forward by bending your arms while keeping them behind and below the bar so you can pull back and down on it seated on steep climbs to keep it from lifting while keeping you forward like you would with the RR stem would be hard with the large backsweep not pairing well with the bent arms position. Getting up on top of the bar would put your arms at an angle where the bars upsweep would function more like backsweep and allow you then to use its low degree of upsweep like a low degree of backsweep and ride with your arms properly bent. That more vertical arm angle though is more consistent with pulling up on the bar if you don’t have enough weight on it, and can further a feeling of the front trying to lift on steep climbs.
The RR stem used with a pretty typical bar sweep should not have these same issues. When I tested a large backsweep bar, I also noticed that I didn’t really like the cornering or aggressive riding position. My wrists were bent out and pinching the outer wrist much to often, and loading my hands when needed was harder. It was also harder to find the balance of how much to turn the bar and lean the bike, and made the front harder to manage. The RR stems position promotes good arm bend for the attack position and largely loading through your feet with very light hands. Getting that same position with a lot of backsweep will not ride the same.
I’m a taller rider and bikes seem to never have a high enough stack so I always have high rise bars and lots of spacers , this dudes on to something 😊
My theory is that it works for you on the Nicolai G1, precisely because that bike has a pretty low stack height, very long chainstays and a ridiculously long reach. This seems like the only combination of circumstances where a raised reversed stem would influence the rider's center of gravity in a favourable manner. In any other case a raised reversed stem would push the riders center of gravity backwards, taking pressure off the front wheel and subsequently introduce understeer.
Definitely works well with this bike. I go more in depth in regards to this in my full review coming next week
While I do agree that the Nicolai G1 is a great frame for using the RR (Raised Reversed) stem on, and does reflect more of where I believe mtb geometry should go, it’s not the only type of frame where the RR stem will work. Also I wouldn’t call a 630mm stack pretty low relative to most other enduro mtbs, it’s pretty similar to many other companies size large.
Sizing up from the frame size that you already feel fits you best with a traditional stem to a larger frame with longer chainstays is not necessary to use the RR stem. The RR stems Raised height pairs perfectly with the closer hand position from the Reversed offset so that you don’t need to upsize your bike. Typically to have a good angle of your arms to the bars and enough bend at the elbows for moving around in good form, you’re hinged forward at the hips such that your back is fairly horizontal. With the more upright position of the RR stem, you don’t need to account for as much horizontal torso length in the cockpit. Also, the total distance between your feet and hands increases for a roomier feel. I’m 5’8” and I’ve tested the RR stem on bikes with reaches from 405mm to 500mm, and I am always faster and in more control with an RR stem. I find about 460mm - 470mm is a good sweet spot for me. I currently ride a Trek Slash 29 in size M/L which is the same size that would otherwise be recommended for my height with a traditional stem. All of my customers that I have talked to have been very happy doing a direct swap of their existing traditional stem to the RR stem on whatever bike they were already using. The vast majority of them were not on particularly long or otherwise extreme geometry frames for their heights.
You can certainly use the RR stem on a larger frame that otherwise may feel a bit unwieldy with a traditional stem though. Again, I’m 5’8” and I actually owned an XXL YT Capra 29 with a 500mm reach for a while to test if you needed a larger frame to work with the RR stem. That bike was sick because it was super long and stable, but because of the RR stems increased leverage from the Raised height, and the improved steering geometry of the Reversed offset, I actually gained maneuverability so it wasn’t hard to ride on tighter more technical terrain. I was even able to make some turns tighter on the XXL YT Capra 29 with the RR stem than I could with my 2013 size L Evil Uprising 26” with a 437mm reach and 4” shorter wheelbase with a traditional 50mm stem!
Also, your center of gravity is not necessarily that far back with the RR stem. Many mtb coaches recommend supporting all of your body weight through your feet and being balanced over the bottom bracket with minimal weight in your hands when riding in the attack position. The attack position originated in MX as a strong stable stance that lets the bike move underneath you with good bike body separation, good mobility, and gives good control and confidence. The RR stem through its independent testing process, trying various heights and offsets for over 3 years, has ended up putting the riders hands at a stack and reach that happens to be practically the same as what you would find on a MX bike. That same attack position can now be used properly on an mtb. If you are balanced over the bottom bracket with either type of stem, then your center of gravity will not be further back or further forward either way.
I saw a review of this stem on The Loam Wolf's channel a while back. It looks pretty interesting. I'm stoked to hear what you think.
So everyone seems to love it that tries it.....but nobody actually USES it. What gives???
It's exactly like with human shaped shoes. Everyone knows that modern pointy shoes are horrible for your health causing bunions and tons of other problems. And yet everyone uses them and not barefoot shoes or simply foot shaped shoes. Peer pressure man.
I’ve never ridden one, but other reviews say it’s basically impossible to climb your bike with it on. The bars are so high and close that you hit your knees on them on anything resembling a tight switchback.
@@evanblackwell3920 This is an issue that I feel has been blown up out of proportion. From what I could see, this lack of knee clearance was an issue with technique from not having fully adapted to the RR (Raised Reversed) stem and with bike setup to better suit the RR stem. The RR stem actually works really well on tight switchbacks with the correct technique for using it. I much prefer it over traditional, and find I can turn tighter with greater ease tending now to take the sharper inside line on switchback climbs. This sentiment is echoed by my customers who have no issues climbing or going around tight turns.
What you need to do is tilt the nose of your seat down some, and shift your butt forward on it a bit too. You can combine this with also shifting the seat forward on its rails some. With the seat in this position, it is easier to do a pedal stroke where you bring your knee in towards the frame, as if to point your knee at the stem, without the nose of the saddle getting in the way of your inner thigh. Along with that, this seat position helps you to not be so far over the rear on steep climbs so that the front stays down easier. Most times when I am pedaling while turning seated, and the bar could otherwise hit my leg, I simply bring my knee in towards the frame and lean the bike more under me. It’s muscle memory for me now, and I no longer even think about it. Sometimes I even bring my knee further out to clear the bar completely so that it can turn all the way, even to inline with the seat without obstruction. For taller riders, running the RR stem even taller with some steerer tube spacers under it will also help by allowing the bar to go over the knee and thigh. At 5’8” I run about 30mm of spacers under my RR stem.
In The Loam Wolfs first rides review, the seat looked to be pushed back on the rails with the nose even pointed up some and the RR stem was run with 0 spacers under it to be as low as it could go. Along with that, the rider was tending to point their knee out in the direction they were turning. It can take some time to adjust techniques that you’ve become used to doing but given a proper chance, traditional 50mm - 35mm stems will actually be the ones that feel really weird and foreign.
@@evanblackwell3920I have three bikes with the RR; Demo Race DH, Enduro, and Stumpy, and this has never been the case.
I have three bikes with the RR; Demo Race DH, Enduro, and Stumpy, and love it!
I commented in your dreadnought review video about running super high bars (80+mm of rise) and you called them ape hangers! 😂
I’ve ridden the RR stem and 100% believe in the hype. Buying high rise bars just just a cheaper way to get approximately the same setup.
I’m your height and ride a bike with near identical geo & size to your geometron. I won’t go back to conventional bar height.
Hopefully a full review is coming soon. Curious to hear more impressions.
Review coming next week!
It's leverage. And where your body is strongest to use it. I have always use a long quill stem on my rigid mtb (yes I'm old) and wider bars. It puts the bars in the sweet spot of your muscle group.
It would be interesting to try some mega high rise bars with a 30mm stem back to back with this. Deity makes a 80mm bar, Answer might make a higher one. Could even try a bmx race cruiser bar/stem to get up to the same height. I wonder it's the height alone that's beneficial, or if the bars being directly over the steerer tube plays a significant part in it.
It’s both beneficial. Watch Rulezman video about geometry he have a great explanation about why this type of stems work well
The RR stem is both Raised and Reversed. Due to this your hands will be notably behind the steering axis of your frame instead of in front as they traditionally are. The Reversed offset improves and calms the steering dynamics. Since it arcs out instead of in when turning relative to the frame, it allows the rider to position themselves on the outside of the bike when cornering to load their side knobs properly while also leaning the bike in further for a kinematically tighter turn. The hand to front axle position parallels a 58 degree headtube angle for ultimate confidence in steep terrain, with a steering feel that is less floppy and more direct than the stock headtube angle of the bike with a traditional stem. These help the rider corner much better with improved feel of the front end, keep better balance in loose terrain, and feel more confident in steep terrain.
A really tall bar or even a long steerer tube with a bunch of spacers or a stem riser would just be higher up without the Reversed offset, and as such will perform a lot differently. I tested anything from below traditional height to about 80mm taller than the RR stem you see here, and 70mm offset forward all the way to 70mm offset Reversed over the course of about 3 years always benchmarking against a traditional 50mm - 35mm stem. The RR stems geometry is what gave the consistently fastest times and most control. The Reversed offset is the main part to me, and works best in combination with the Raised height. That’s why it is a Raised Reversed stem. It is a Raised version of my Reversed stem philosophy. Just Raised up has some advantages, but the front end can get harder to manage if your hands are in front of the steering axis. Someday I believe most of the height will be built into frames with a much shorter height still Reversed offset stem sat atop.
A really tall bar is also not ideal because it will move your hands quite significantly relative to the steering axis when adjusting bar role, and is more reliant on having a very strong hold at the bar clamp on the stem to keep the bar from slipping forward and back.
@@bemorebikes No offense, but it comes off as a little desperate for you to write all this in response to a comment suggesting a simple comparison to high bars. It seems like you're trying to prevent that from happening. I get it, the bars are a little behind the steering axis, just like people regularly adjust 6"-12" handlebars to that exact same position on BMX bikes. You are incorrect in saying "a really tall bar... would just be higher up without reversed offset" The taller a bar is, the more it can be adjusted forward and back and the less the sweep is affected. We have 50 years of BMX to look at that demonstrates this fact. The only difference your stem makes is that a mountain biker can use their existing low rise handlebars, making it a more simple swap.
I assume this is not a sponsored video for this product, because that would have to be disclosed legally, so let the video speak for itself and leave the marketing speak on your website and media. Ease of installation is a great selling point, but saying there are some problems with tall bars in 2023 like "slipping" sounds like an infomercial. Olympic BMX racers don't experience slipping when jumping 45' doubles over and over. Have confidence and welcome comparisons if you believe in your product.
@@bermroller No offense is taken. I’m very passionate about mtb geometry, and I love having discussions about it. I’m sorry if that came through too intensely. My intent in my comment was not to prevent a comparison to a very high rise bar with a short forward offset stem. If someone wishes to do that, I actually highly recommend it! It’s a great way to get a feel for what does what, and is quite informative. You never learn if you don’t experiment! I know this because I’ve tried it many times. 😄
The first part of my comment was meant to highlight that to me it is the Reversed offset that is the important part of the design more so than the Raised height, and what it does. I got excited when you asked about that difference because most people focus initially just on the height. I’d rather ride the Reversed offset of -15mm at a more traditional height than a frame with a traditional stem at the height of the RR stem. I even did that for quite a while before experimenting with the Raised height and finding that they paired really well.
The second part of my comment was meant to highlight the difference to just running a taller bar or front end. If you rolled a really tall riser bar with typical upsweep and backsweep back to achieve a similar geometry, you would need to roll it back to about 35mm - 40mm behind the steering axis to achieve the same hand to steering axis relationship. This would give quite a large degree of downsweep to the bar instead of upsweep which greatly effects how you can load and interact with the bar. Most riders feel a little bit of upsweep works best for their bar roll. Should you happen to be a rider that just likes a bar rolled back that much as far as bar sweep goes, then yes, there will not be any major differences in handling vs the RR stem and a low rise bar rolled back to equivalent sweep angles. For a given bar roll that would typically be used though, a really tall bar would just be higher up without the Reversed offset. Often times the effective stem length would actually be longer forward if you ran a really tall riser bar, but that depends on personal preference for bar roll.
The third part of my comment was meant to highlight why I didn’t go with a very tall bar to get the geo of the RR stem, albeit with adjusted sweep angles for how far rolled back it would be. Bar roll is highly personal, and the relationship of your hands to the steering axis has a large effect on handling. A really low rise bar on a really tall stem won’t move your hands much relative to the steering axis for a fairly wide range of bar rolls. A really tall bar would move the hands significantly relative to the steering axis for relatively small changes to the bar roll. Since I don’t know what bar roll my customers will want, I figured the tall stem was a better method to ensure whatever bar roll they like they get a similar hand to steering axis relationship to what I designed. A really tall bar is more reliant on having a very strong hold at the bar clamp on the stem to keep the bar from slipping forward and back. This doesn’t mean it can’t be done though. BMX bikes, as you mentioned, do fine with very tall bars. What this does mean though is that should a bolt come loose or not have been tightened enough, it is more prone to slipping than a lower rise bar. It’s semi similar to how sometimes your bars may tweak from straight after a hard crash. I agree though that this is not a really big issue with proper use, it’s more just an added ease of reducing a potential issue if you don’t torque all the bolts properly. All this is to say that there isn’t anything inherently bad or unsafe about a really tall bar, I just don’t think it is ideal.
I apologize if I didn’t portray what I was trying to say very well. I hope that this comes through a bit better even though it is very long also. If you have any questions, I’d love to further a dialogue and discuss anything about the RR stem with you. 🙂
Brian’s review of the RR stem was not paid for or sponsored by any means. He has no obligation or financial incentive to say anything good about it. I ran into him at Sea Otter and expressed that I was a fan of his Let’s Go Racing series. We talked for a bit, and I think I asked if he would be willing to do a review. He agreed, and I handed him a demo stem. As of fairly recently he got a chance to try it out, and has since sent it back since he finished his review.
@@bemorebikes As I said, the taller the bars, the less the sweep is affected by bar roll. I used to race cruiser cruiser class and, while I never took any measurements, I don't think the 6" tall S&M race cruiser bars I was using would end up with downsweep at all. With 4 up, 8 back my guess is the up would be maybe be at 1 degree, BUT on a mountain bike going up this much in height would dramatically change the angle the riders hands are interfacing with the bar at, so I think on any setup, including your stem, the rider would want to roll the bars back a bit from where they were to maintain the same sweep feeling.
I also said above your stem is the simplest solution to getting the bars in this position, which is a great selling point. An objective 3rd party showing another way to get there, and testing back to back with the RR stem would likely be good for you even if the performance was similar. Most people likely wouldn't want to deal with having to figure out how to get the sweep they want and track down BMX products from sources they aren't familiar with. Other people might try the BMX route as a cheaper way to test the position, decide they like it and end up getting your product. I think it would make a very interesting video.
Can't wait for an in depth review. I'm was so skeptical of this thing, but I'm getting curious...
yep, you're definitely a curious one
If you have any questions about the RR (Raised Reversed) stem, please let me know! 😄
I’ve had the RR on my specialized Demo Race, Enduro, and Stumpy the past six months. I would never ride a bike without one. There so many benefits like less stress on hands, arms, back: better center weight, less likely to go OTB!
Thanks Mike! I really have enjoyed helping you get your different bikes setup with RR stems, along with your many orders. 😄 I’m so happy that you enjoy it so much!
Is it worthy of being used in EWS races?
Is this in Santa Cruz? Looks familiar
It reduces reach and increases stack while keeping the same long wheelbase. I would think it makes the bike feel more similar to a DH bike
Watch Rulezman video about geometry and yes running longer wheelbase with not so long reach . You are on the right track on what you are saying
Shredding. ❤
how to say top tube too long w out saying top tube too long?
this is the kind of thing i would love for my bike. 2 reasons why i dont have it.
way too expensive
looks a bit weird, but thats not too much of a problem
Isnt this functionally just a stiffer version of some really high rise bars that have been rolled back?
Yeah but they don't cost $400 and make you look like you ride the short bus
Yes, exactly. The exact same thing could be achieved with a short-offset stem and high-rise bars.
@janeblogs324 @meteormedia7021 @dezzydiamond7121
The RR (Raised Reversed) stem is not the same as a very tall bar. The RR stem is both Raised and Reversed. Due to this your hands will be notably behind the steering axis of your frame instead of in front as they traditionally are. The Reversed offset improves and calms the steering dynamics. Since it arcs out instead of in when turning relative to the frame, it allows the rider to position themselves on the outside of the bike when cornering to load their side knobs properly while also leaning the bike in further for a kinematically tighter turn. The hand to front axle position parallels a 58 degree headtube angle for ultimate confidence in steep terrain, with a steering feel that is less floppy and more direct than the stock headtube angle of the bike with a traditional stem. These help the rider corner much better with improved feel of the front end, keep better balance in loose terrain, and feel more confident in steep terrain. A really tall bar or even a long steerer tube with a bunch of spacers or a stem riser would just be higher up without the Reversed offset, and as such will perform a lot differently.
If you rolled a really tall riser bar back to achieve a similar geometry, you would need to roll it back to about 35mm - 40mm behind the steering axis to achieve the same hand to steering axis relationship. This would give quite a large degree of downsweep to the bar instead of upsweep which greatly effects how you can load and interact with the bar. Most riders feel a little bit of upsweep works best for their bar roll. A really tall bar is also not ideal because it will move your hands quite significantly relative to the steering axis when adjusting bar role for preference, and is more reliant on having a very strong hold at the bar clamp on the stem to keep the bar from slipping forward and back.
I need more thoughts and reactions!
Full review next week
No review Brian? I think i've seen this stem before with a different channel.
Review coming next week
It’s fixed that crazy reach.
I run wide bmx bars on my mountain bike for years
thoughts? worth the awful look?
I have three, Demo Race, Enduro, and Stumpy. It’s amazing.
Is it the ability to push he bike over? 🤯
I'll not to cut my new fork steerer tube next time.
Run a race with it
Verdict?!?!?😂
Stay tuned!
Im laughing at your reactions. Like you just discovered the secret to descending. But what about ascending?
He will roll back 😂😂