@@Survivethejive A heck of a lot of work. Thanks. A good review of the contemporary mainstream consensus. OMG, I'm looking at you channel videos. Subscribed. I'm watching again.
@The Mutt isnt that just basically the English, Welsh and Scottish at this point? With the English having slightly more german admixture. Not sure how much people who stayed in ireland mixed in there
Ireland got red hair from The Vikings, I wouldn’t be surprised if we got Celtic knots from them too. The rune stones in Denmark and Sweden have some Celtic knots on them but not like the Celtic crosses in Scotland or Ireland. However the Celts of Ireland could very well be where the knots originated and the Scandinavians adopted them from there. There’s also a Chinese Celtic knot I can’t remember what it’s called but it has a similar knot in Celtic/Norse
@@matthew-dq8vk Yeah honestly it does seem to be that way. My family is Scotch-Irish or Ulster Scots as some call them, and I traced my families heritage back far enough and discovered that my Scottish side only came to Scotland from Denmark in the early 11th century and then in the 17th century moved to Ireland and intermarried into an Irish family who came to Ireland as part of the Norman invasion of Ireland. It definitely seems that a lot of Germanic admixture was left in Ireland, Wales, and to a lesser extent Scotland over the generations.
as someone who does a bit of hobby weaving and knitting, I couldn't help but notice the patterns on the stonework are reminiscent of this incredibly important technology.
I affirm, and appreciate the clear archeological evidence our host presents. For my part, the great buckle of Sutton Hoo is the finest example of Germanic interlaced animal ornament that we have. We can say for certain there was a shared enthusiasm for certain artistic motifs that transcended geographic, ethnic, and linguistic subdivisions of European populations. I posit that spirals and vortices primarily entered the (ultimately) shared tradition via Megalithic > [La Tene] Celtic and the animal ornament entered via Scythian > Germanic channels. Which is not to preclude long-standing Scythian influence on Celtic art.
These videos really are a feast for the eyes; so many thanks for showing the works in question, as always, now with lovely animation! May your journeys remain blessed, bountiful and gloriously recorded.
I have long wondered if the Vikings borrowed interlaced figures or knotwork designs from the Celts, or if it was the other way around. Now I know that they each got them from the Anglo-Saxons. This style must have been very, very popular in those ancient days. Fascinating! Thank you for explaining this all.
Informative and well researched as ever! Interesting points about the Saxon origins - I live near the Swastika Stone on Rombalds Moor and there is some debate about its origins
Fascinating! I remember studying the Hogbacks when I took Archaeology at Queen’s University Belfast. I’m working on my own mini documentary about the early Celtic Christian Monastery at Bangor (Beannchor) and the Viking (Lochlann) attack in 824. I was born and live in Bangor :-)
2:55 This elaborate piece of carved stonework is not from Hadrian's Wall. That is a distance slab from the Antonine Wall. That particular Distance Slab records that the 20th Legion had completed 3000 feet of the work on the line of the Antonine Wall. That stretch is between Hutcheson's Hill and Bearsden in North Glasgow. Your video provides a fascinating exploration of the influences & overlaps of Roman, Norman, Norse and Pictish stonecarving over the course of a millenia. In 25 minutes! Really well done. Thank you. More please.
I can't believe how high quality and interesting this video is!! If they showed stuff like this in school I would have actually been interested in history!
I've wondered about this for ages - - thanks for the informative video! Also, The Bizarchives is super based and horror-pilled. Every story packs a punch, what a great collection of authors. Keeping the Cetlic/Saxon traditions alive. Hail.
I really feel sorry for you. You have done such detailed and interesting research yet have such a low no. of views. But again this channel is for very niche audience as very few people can comprehend this type of videos. I really want you to progress. Goodluck!❤️💖❤️💖And love from Nepal🇳🇵
Great video. I never equated Knotwork to the Norns and weaving. I did think that something about the endless knots came about with the idea of trapping and tangling bad spirits. But, like many other people I had always considered them Celtic.
Very interesting topic which I wondered a lot about. My knowledge about the Scandinavian-Germanic ornamental styles is rather good and once upon time I studied these directly under professor Ann-Sofie Gräslund, at Uppsala University, who is one of the pioneers in classification and dating of runestones and animal ornaments. Anyway, the so called "Celtic patterns" in the various artworks from the British Isles have always felt weird in a way, since no continental Celtic culture ever protraited the same kinds. They always intuitively felt way too Germanic to me (based upon the knowledge that I had) and I wondered a lot about whether or not they were an individual development from the Scandinavian patterns. So thanks Tom for clearing some things out!
@@Survivethejive I think the general English public have acquired a romanticised and safe perception of what constitutes 'Celtic'. They have also been sold an naive image of those loveable and sexy 'Vikings'. The entertainment worlds, box office favourites. Meanwhile their knowledge of what is Anglo Saxon and what is English is pretty dire. This is why I've spent the past 20 years doing what I can, to bring Anglo Saxon history to the fore (in my own amateur historian way) and why I value Survive The Jive so much for such great work.
There is a lot if the same symbols, patterns and stones in Bretagne as well. A region which resisted the Romans for a long time, and which has traditions very different from the rest of France.
Anyway, the Salin Styles derive themselves from Roman art and Mediterranean patterns*. The earliest evidences for Germanic art during the 3rd to the 5th century AD strongly suggest they tried to imitate Roman artworks. Finally, the animal style, both for the Celts and the Germans, suggests a continuing influence from the steppes. In the same way, the Gaels and other Celts from the Medieval period adopted the ornamental style from their Germanic neighbors and invaders and made their own interpretation over time. So I kinda disagree in saying this art is exclusively Germanic due to a particular point of its origins. *the idea that the Salin Styles derive from Roman art was already expressed by Bernhard Salin but also by Sven Söderberg, Anton Wilhelm Brøgger and Hans Hildebrand. Those pioneers are also followed by more recent scholars like Günther Haseloff and Siv Kristoffersen.
I admit I found this hard to swallow on an emotional level at first, but the evidence is overwhelming and STJ deserves the praise he gets for his research and presentations.
@@user-ms4cm4qf5j If I remember correctly there is a tree/vine of life in Sumeria that may have been an inspiration for the weaving, I have also seen interlaced knotwork on Coptic manuscripts from around the 1st century AD
Hey there Mr Thomas. Love your works here on RUclips. For someone who loves history and anthropology without any political agendas your channel is a literal treasure trove.
Hey Tom, I really appreciate the unbiased information you put in these videos. I understand from other videos of you on RUclips and from some jive talk pod casts that you and I may disagree on many things, but I can still enjoy your content and I can still enjoy you and your channel due to the unbiased facts you put in. Keep it up mate, you are my favourite history channel on RUclips.
I have a celtic knot tied to my soldier 95 DPM smock. My friend (a ex artilleryman) gifted me both the smock (which i was very happy with alone) but also the celic knot which he tied to the end of the bottom pull cord so it hangs next to my waist. Ive never removed said knot, i love it. I love to have both military gear and stuff related to my European ancestry (mostly English, with Dutch, Spanish and some German and Irish) Im English btw, from Northumbria. Not an American who loves his European ancestry haha, i know that is a common thing. Ive just talked to older members of my family before and my dad has studied our family history so i know where i come from. The Dutch comes from my grandad on my mothers side and the Spanish from my grandmother on my mothers side. The Irish comes from my grandfather on my dads side and the German comes from my grandmother on my dads side. I am mostly English (followed by Dutch at 12.5%) but its awesome to know my family is from all over western Europe. (Edited for punctuation)
Awesome family history! It's spiritually very important to know and connect with ones roots and ancestors. Many people are completeky unaware and clueless of their roots, with is very sad.
The idea of interlaced strands is a strong motif in both Germanic and Celtic traditions for example the Welsh mabinogion translates to something like strands or strings so you can think of bardic stories as having been thought of interlaced ancestoral stories furthermore you have the roots of the world tree igdrasil and also the weaving of wyrd by the norns
Fascinating stuff! I've been looking for a comprehensive video on this subject for a while now, and who better to deliver it than my man Survive the Jive!
Fantastic video, really well put together. Very professional looking. Full of facts and historical stories with good narration. Top marks for the fab animation of carvings.
These videos should be on TV , there's no BS hype or sensationalism to attract attention . Just great ,well researched information that can be trusted and used by students of history.
I just saw an ancient burial mound in Ireland from 5000 years ago. With Neolithic massive stones with ancient spiral patterns. My mind was blown and this channel makes me wonder about much more. Thanks for the history videos about out ancestors past.
Another great doc. I had no idea that the tradition originated in England. I wonder how many of these crosses were lost during the reformation as a lot of old christian sites were plundered. Stones with any obviously prechristian imagery wouldn't have been tolerated by the puritans.
Probably most of them were, especially in Scotland. The ruthwell cross was knocked down and smashed by protestants and then repurposed as a pew. Freemasons re-erected it in the 18th century and added a new cross stone with masonic imagery hence the triangle
@@Survivethejive Shame that so much was lost and probably why these crosses are today associated with Ireland, because they didn't have to suffer such zealotry.
Ah unfortunately we did. Many of our ancient buildings, churches and ancient stone artifacts were destroyed during 800 years of invasion and colonisation. Henry VIII et al decimating monastic settlements and outlawing the Irish Church. Very few medieval or earlier religious buildings were left standing after the Tudor and Cromwellian invasions. What was left was just a tiny portion of what was there previously
Tom, can you do one on the history of plaid or Tartan. How it is found as far west as the British Isles and as far east as the tarim basin? Which was old as hell too. How ubiquitous was it back in the day? And why does it only really seem to be preserved in Scotland and Ireland I guess
kilts were necessary for blacksmiths to not become infertile lol! I love that Tartans represented their clans heritage like a totem, a symbol for others to recognize identity. I think because cloth-work factories remained a thing in the UK for so long, and that surnames became mandatory so early compared to other areas of the world (after 1066) the clan names and their tartans were remembered.
@@jackhanson1274 oh interesting. On wiki it says they range in date from 21st century to considerably older and the Welsh ones are all new but some Scottish clans have very old tartans. I wonder what is the oldest
@@mayamaeru Aye, the oldest tartan cloth dates to the 16th century, I've even been to see it. I don't know if the exhibition is still on in Dundee, but I really recommend it, it's incredible to see something that old and to admire the craftsmanship! It was not a clan tartan however, we have no information to indicate that tartan played a symbolic role before the early 19th century. In fact, I'd argue that we have more evidence that your clan name was far more impactful. For example, I have a book of Gaidhlig proverbs and a large anthology of Scots and Gaidhlig poems, out of all that only one proverb mentions "tartan" at all. However, there are many proverbs and poems that speak of the duties in a clan, who must do what and for whom. It's clear to me that where you lived and who you were allied with were far more impactful than what you wore. The very specific mutation of "clan tartans" arises in the early 1800s and is mostly nonsense for the gentry, largely divorced from the lives of Highland folk whose culture had been appropriated by said gentry to play dress up in Edinburgh. Edit: a few edits to improve readability!
Sutton Hoo is obviously a Swedish burial tho. Same motives and helmet style found in Sweden hundred years earlier in Sweden. Same molds / stamps for the artwork found in Sweden. Or alternatively it could been ordered and made in Sweden to a anglo-saxon king, but then why the Swedish motives?
@@LordOfSweden No, items like this are found in other parts of Britain and made here, the mythology is found all over northern Europe and common to most Germanic peoples, the work of Anglo Saxon craftsmen is extraordinary maybe it was sent to Sweden.
@@hetrodoxly1203 No they are not. The Sutton Hoo helmet is unique and has the same motives as the vendel helmets together with the ornaments found together with it. It just makes sense. What other helmet like that are found in Britain from that period or earlier? Nah.. the stamps and molds have been found in Sweden for these exact motives.
I'm loving the video quality! Have you been to the Hunterian museum in Glasgow? It has a great collection of Roman distance slabs and stelae from around Hadrian's Wall and further north. The influence on Pictish stones and artwork (regarding depictions of battles/warriors/mythology) is uncanny when you see them side by side.
In case anyone doesn't know. I have ancestry from Strathclyde and also from Ireland. I like Scottish and irish culture and people and I celebrate it. Just because this video may not match your beliefs, that doesn't mean it is an attack on them.
Have you ever thought about starting a podcast about these topics? Maybe just using the audio from your videos? There’s so much info here that I could listen to it all day long!
Them shorts are naughty af look like General Montys shorts. also great video always informative detailed information laid out and the fact you actually visit the sites adds another layer to your content.
12:33 The fragment from Durham cathedral library is more likely from the 7th c. not the 6th. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_Book_Fragment_(Durham_Cathedral_Library,_A._II._10.)
Very interesting. Good to hear of the Celts arriving in Britain and Ireland in the Bronze Age (And not the Iron Age as once thought). However I’d put the Celtic migration as even older, in the Mid Bronze Age (These things are often older than we realise). However, I reckon the Germanic, Celtic and Latin peoples were all the one peoples originally, but all had a strong substratum cultural layer maintained from the older Neolithic era. (Yes they are all Indo-European, but I reckon they were all once part of the same branch of it). But I also reckon there was more going on though. And that the interlace style is even older still. As that interlace art style is also found in the Middle East:- ruclips.net/video/65pCbaRyrqA/видео.html Also, I reckon there was an earlier migration to Eastern and Northern Britain and North Western Ireland from Scandinavia in the Late Bronze Age, yet to be discovered.
It is amusing to still read the outdated assertion that things Celtic are a uniquely middle Iron Age phenomenon and Celts *could not have arrived* in Ireland prior to about 200 B.C. Celtic is a late neolithic to Chalcolithic phenomenon, and part of the Proto indo-European dispersal subsequent to Yamnaya. A Bronze age entry cannot simply be dismissed.
@@cinaedmacseamas2978 And the designs show a definite Asian/Steppes influence. Yamnaya area and many different cultural influences of the Steppes before the diaspora.
Funny about an hr before you posted this interesting vid I was wondering what you were up to and low and behold here your are , happy new yr and all the best
Haven't watched the video yet but I believe they are universal in the mind. In pretty much any psychedelic experience I have had I have seen those knots and patterns in my head. I think this is where they come from. Same with the Triskelion symbol or the Symbol that the Isle of Man uses on their flag, I see those as well in my mind during these experiences.
Ah, that makes things make sense a little more. I was a bit confused about all the Anglo-Saxon “Celtic Crosses” dotted around the place 😂. I never got around to looking into it, but I knew there was something funny about it. Thanks for clarifying…
I am from Sweden and I have been facinated by runestones my whole life. I have always had the feeling that they tell a story about a person similar to the totempoles of North America. If a person would have mixed origin like inter-married parents they would mix in designs of that culture to respect those roots. It could also tell the story of a place where the developments of different cultures would be placed on top of eachother to show how the culture of the place has developed, placing the cross on the top to show the current time. Perhaps a way to later be able to date the stone (from the christian era...) But as we say in Sweden when we know we cannot fully understand something - it's wyrd. :-)
Tom, do you know about what era the Proto-Celtic/Germanic/Italic people starting becoming distinctively Celtic, Germanic and Italic? You and Sturla are some of the only honest archaeologists left when it pertains to ancient Europeans. Thanks again for another top shelf lesson on the history of Our People, my brother!
Nice! All of my art is a fusion of various European art styles from across time and place. I've often thought that whether natural or intentional, it seems that the various styles were evolving to become compatible and easily fuse.
I just wish we could go to the bottom of the north sea and excavate the sunken lands of Old Frisia. There we would find all kinds of missing artistic links. Great video, I just subscribed! ☺️
I was considering a similar topic to this video for my bachelors' dissertation, but went with the topic of the Romanitas and imperial imagery of the Angevins instead. Thoroughly enjoyed the video. Made me reminisce, as this topic was what got me thoroughly interested in landscape history.
@@Survivethejive A good book which set the groundwork for this idea is Abigail Wheatly's Idea of the Castle in Medieval England. Highly recommend it. Scholarship hasn't really taken into account the full implications of the book just yet, but the ball is starting to roll. It's especially important due to the idea of the four empires being so prevalent in the minds of medieval people. You can see this same narrative play out in the crusades with how they refer to the Turks and Egyptians and Babylonian, and Alexandria in Egypt as Babylon. Makes me wonder to what extent building castles was sacred, given church and castle architecture is virtually identical. Very reminiscent of how you described gårds as sacred spaces/sacred enclosures.
I'd always noticed that Insular Celtic art never had interlacing lines. It always surprised me how it wasn't really mentioned in art books. Glad you've done the research on it. Well done. Loved those animations.
Looking at all those carrick bend knots on the base of that font, one can only speculate that the carrick bend and Stafford knot may have been Anglo-Saxon heraldic devices of some sort.
So many great things have been found at or near to hadrians wall. My favourite are the vindolanda tablets ( like postcards ) Especially love the bitchy ones from a woman laughing to her friend about another woman at a party who had "last season's hair style " etc. , shows nothing changes in that respect, lol
Jive do you realize how many Celtic nationalists are going to be triggered they tattooed a Viking/Saxon symbol on their body? They will tell me I am triggering them with fighting words 😂.
Saxons never made it to ireland, the knotwork and animal designs where influenced to the viking urnes style of art and developed to an indigenous design. The spiral designs on the book of kells are not saxons or viking. They're a development of celtic art.
Back when I did my applied arts major in Viking art, the source texts I cited stated that Viking art used animal motifs while Celtic art used plant motifs. So you have to look closely at the details, terminations etc to see if it's animal heads, tails, feet, hooves claws, teeth etc. However, there is a caveat in that the Viking period spans several generations, so influences merged over time. So, it's a rough rule of thumb that is more relevant to the earlier than the later period.
If Bede is correct, pre-Christian Anglo Saxons were a confederation of pagan peoples once pretty well indistinguishable from Viking culture, worshiping Tiw, a precursor to Odin & Thor. Bede has them originating from the north side of the Elbe up into the tip of Jutland, and coming into South Britain with the withdrawal of Rome about 400 AD ish. While the Vikings period runs from about 600 AD, though their forays into Britain were a little later. Yes, there is not a lot of difference between Anglo Saxon & Viking art and weaponry, except that the Vikings used spectacled helmets (the eye & nose piece tended to be attached on the outside of the helm, while the Anglo Saxon one tended to be attached inside the helm rim. Also the Viking Swords tended to have a 3 lobed Pommel, but a lot of weapons were traded from the Franks to anyone who could pay (apparently). Theses are the reasons I didn't make a distinction between Viking & Anglo Saxon, but I did make a vague one between Viking & Celtic. There was just a lot of mixing going on, so these things are not 100% guaranteed rules, just trends. People mostly just used whatever they could source, do it's not a sharp delineation, especially by the end of the Viking period.
Those animations on the Norse-influenced stone monuments were out of this world. Another great video which will be rewatched later.
Thank Robert Molyneaux for those!
Not Norse but Irish ☘️
@@Survivethejive A heck of a lot of work. Thanks. A good review of the contemporary mainstream consensus. OMG, I'm looking at you channel videos. Subscribed. I'm watching again.
@CrabApples Bodaciously Bitter Fruit's Celts are germanic with a very particular tradition and culture.. they couldnt really be anything else
@CrabApples Bodaciously Bitter Fruit's What do you mean?
The quality of this video is mind-blowing. Without a doubt one of the best so far.
Excellent video on an absolutely intriguing topic. Thank you, brother.
Wonderful work. It was certainly a video that needed to be made, and you have done it with style.
Thank you very much
Absolutely :-)
very anglo-saxon
I fricken love STJ. When my holiday pay comes in next month, I'm giving some of it on Patreon. I want more of this sort of thing.
"Are these Celtic, Viking, or Anglo-Saxon?"
"Yes"
This is why the British isles are just the best place ever.
Post-roman !
@The Mutt isnt that just basically the English, Welsh and Scottish at this point? With the English having slightly more german admixture.
Not sure how much people who stayed in ireland mixed in there
Ireland got red hair from
The Vikings, I wouldn’t be surprised if we got Celtic knots from them too. The rune stones in Denmark and Sweden have some Celtic knots on them but not like the Celtic crosses in Scotland or Ireland.
However the Celts of Ireland could very well be where the knots originated and the Scandinavians adopted them from there. There’s also a Chinese Celtic knot I can’t remember what it’s called but it has a similar knot in Celtic/Norse
@@matthew-dq8vk Yeah honestly it does seem to be that way. My family is Scotch-Irish or Ulster Scots as some call them, and I traced my families heritage back far enough and discovered that my Scottish side only came to Scotland from Denmark in the early 11th century and then in the 17th century moved to Ireland and intermarried into an Irish family who came to Ireland as part of the Norman invasion of Ireland. It definitely seems that a lot of Germanic admixture was left in Ireland, Wales, and to a lesser extent Scotland over the generations.
Yknow as someone who can draw quite well, those Celtic/viking patterns are personally extremely difficult to replicate.
They're extremely hard to do on paper, yet these people did it in stone!
@@sarahgilbert8036 its incredible
as someone who does a bit of hobby weaving and knitting, I couldn't help but notice the patterns on the stonework are reminiscent of this incredibly important technology.
I saw that too.
I affirm, and appreciate the clear archeological evidence our host presents.
For my part, the great buckle of Sutton Hoo is the finest example of Germanic interlaced animal ornament that we have. We can say for certain there was a shared enthusiasm
for certain artistic motifs that transcended geographic, ethnic, and linguistic subdivisions of European populations. I posit that spirals and vortices primarily entered the (ultimately) shared tradition via Megalithic > [La Tene] Celtic and the animal ornament entered via Scythian > Germanic channels. Which is not to preclude long-standing Scythian influence on Celtic art.
Brilliant! I've long long observed Scythians as early Indo European transmitter of culture
These videos really are a feast for the eyes; so many thanks for showing the works in question, as always, now with lovely animation! May your journeys remain blessed, bountiful and gloriously recorded.
You've stepped your production up a notch. Well done sir.
I have long wondered if the Vikings borrowed interlaced figures or knotwork designs from the Celts, or if it was the other way around. Now I know that they each got them from the Anglo-Saxons. This style must have been very, very popular in those ancient days. Fascinating! Thank you for explaining this all.
Except the earliest cited example is celtic... this video is bizarre
excellent video very comprehensive
Absolutely brilliant documentary, loved seeing the hogback stones of "Strathclyde" the last stronghold of the ancient britons
Informative and well researched as ever! Interesting points about the Saxon origins - I live near the Swastika Stone on Rombalds Moor and there is some debate about its origins
I suppose debate is warranted considering how prolific the symbol was with the ancients
@@Mephilis78 and don’t forget it was spread all across the globe signifying a common ancestral religion. Why I like this channel so much.
Fascinating! I remember studying the Hogbacks when I took Archaeology at Queen’s University Belfast. I’m working on my own mini documentary about the early Celtic Christian Monastery at Bangor (Beannchor) and the Viking (Lochlann) attack in 824. I was born and live in Bangor :-)
I look forward to that!
Saint maelrubha from Bangor came to Applecross...my late uncle Fred painted a picture of him which should still be in the old church there
Didn't realise til now that the Gaelic for Skandinavia is Lochlann. So similar to our Welsh term Llychlyn.
2:55 This elaborate piece of carved stonework is not from Hadrian's Wall. That is a distance slab from the Antonine Wall. That particular Distance Slab records that the 20th Legion had completed 3000 feet of the work on the line of the Antonine Wall. That stretch is between Hutcheson's Hill and Bearsden in North Glasgow. Your video provides a fascinating exploration of the influences & overlaps of Roman, Norman, Norse and Pictish stonecarving over the course of a millenia. In 25 minutes! Really well done. Thank you. More please.
Thanks for the correction
I can't believe how high quality and interesting this video is!! If they showed stuff like this in school I would have actually been interested in history!
This video is so good, on both contents and editing ... the 19:14 frame is sad though.
Keep up the good work!
Cheers from Italy
I really like this video. It presents information at the perfect pace for me.
I've wondered about this for ages - - thanks for the informative video! Also, The Bizarchives is super based and horror-pilled. Every story packs a punch, what a great collection of authors. Keeping the Cetlic/Saxon traditions alive. Hail.
Possibly my favourite video of yours yet...at least in my top 10! I enjoyed your Christmas talk
I really feel sorry for you. You have done such detailed and interesting research yet have such a low no. of views. But again this channel is for very niche audience as very few people can comprehend this type of videos. I really want you to progress. Goodluck!❤️💖❤️💖And love from Nepal🇳🇵
Thank you. I would love to go to Nepal one day
It's because he is ghost banned. RUclips bans or ghost ban everyone who is pro-European.
Great video. I never equated Knotwork to the Norns and weaving. I did think that something about the endless knots came about with the idea of trapping and tangling bad spirits. But, like many other people I had always considered them Celtic.
The connection to the norns is speculative
And unlikely.. the norns do not weave... they poke and cut!
@@Aurora2097 "Sneru þær af afli
örlögþáttu" they do weave and the etymological association between seidr and thread is certain as i showed
@Shanti Andía someone’s got their head up their ass
Very interesting topic which I wondered a lot about. My knowledge about the Scandinavian-Germanic ornamental styles is rather good and once upon time I studied these directly under professor Ann-Sofie Gräslund, at Uppsala University, who is one of the pioneers in classification and dating of runestones and animal ornaments. Anyway, the so called "Celtic patterns" in the various artworks from the British Isles have always felt weird in a way, since no continental Celtic culture ever protraited the same kinds. They always intuitively felt way too Germanic to me (based upon the knowledge that I had) and I wondered a lot about whether or not they were an individual development from the Scandinavian patterns. So thanks Tom for clearing some things out!
Yes it is strange how so many people don't realise they are Germanic in origin considering it is pretty obvious when you trace it backwards
@@Survivethejive I think the general English public have acquired a romanticised and safe perception of what constitutes 'Celtic'. They have also been sold an naive image of those loveable and sexy 'Vikings'. The entertainment worlds, box office favourites. Meanwhile their knowledge of what is Anglo Saxon and what is English is pretty dire. This is why I've spent the past 20 years doing what I can, to bring Anglo Saxon history to the fore (in my own amateur historian way) and why I value Survive The Jive so much for such great work.
There is a lot if the same symbols, patterns and stones in Bretagne as well. A region which resisted the Romans for a long time, and which has traditions very different from the rest of France.
Anyway, the Salin Styles derive themselves from Roman art and Mediterranean patterns*. The earliest evidences for Germanic art during the 3rd to the 5th century AD strongly suggest they tried to imitate Roman artworks. Finally, the animal style, both for the Celts and the Germans, suggests a continuing influence from the steppes. In the same way, the Gaels and other Celts from the Medieval period adopted the ornamental style from their Germanic neighbors and invaders and made their own interpretation over time. So I kinda disagree in saying this art is exclusively Germanic due to a particular point of its origins.
*the idea that the Salin Styles derive from Roman art was already expressed by Bernhard Salin but also by Sven Söderberg, Anton Wilhelm Brøgger and Hans Hildebrand. Those pioneers are also followed by more recent scholars like Günther Haseloff and Siv Kristoffersen.
I admit I found this hard to swallow on an emotional level at first, but the evidence is overwhelming and STJ deserves the praise he gets for his research and presentations.
It was not necessarily Roman heritage.
This needs to be explore very carefully.
@@user-ms4cm4qf5j If I remember correctly there is a tree/vine of life in Sumeria that may have been an inspiration for the weaving, I have also seen interlaced knotwork on Coptic manuscripts from around the 1st century AD
Babe wake up, new STJ video just dropped
Hey there Mr Thomas. Love your works here on RUclips. For someone who loves history and anthropology without any political agendas your channel is a literal treasure trove.
Hey Tom, I really appreciate the unbiased information you put in these videos. I understand from other videos of you on RUclips and from some jive talk pod casts that you and I may disagree on many things, but I can still enjoy your content and I can still enjoy you and your channel due to the unbiased facts you put in. Keep it up mate, you are my favourite history channel on RUclips.
From Montréal, love your productions ! Fascinating ! Thank you 🙏
I have a celtic knot tied to my soldier 95 DPM smock. My friend (a ex artilleryman) gifted me both the smock (which i was very happy with alone) but also the celic knot which he tied to the end of the bottom pull cord so it hangs next to my waist.
Ive never removed said knot, i love it. I love to have both military gear and stuff related to my European ancestry (mostly English, with Dutch, Spanish and some German and Irish)
Im English btw, from Northumbria. Not an American who loves his European ancestry haha, i know that is a common thing. Ive just talked to older members of my family before and my dad has studied our family history so i know where i come from. The Dutch comes from my grandad on my mothers side and the Spanish from my grandmother on my mothers side. The Irish comes from my grandfather on my dads side and the German comes from my grandmother on my dads side. I am mostly English (followed by Dutch at 12.5%) but its awesome to know my family is from all over western Europe.
(Edited for punctuation)
Awesome family history! It's spiritually very important to know and connect with ones roots and ancestors. Many people are completeky unaware and clueless of their roots, with is very sad.
Hands down best channel on RUclips history
Fantastic as always!
Thank you so much for you excellent and hard work, the community really appreaciates it!
Never cease to amaze me every time you put out a new video, amazing work!
The idea of interlaced strands is a strong motif in both Germanic and Celtic traditions for example the Welsh mabinogion translates to something like strands or strings so you can think of bardic stories as having been thought of interlaced ancestoral stories furthermore you have the roots of the world tree igdrasil and also the weaving of wyrd by the norns
Loving the animations
This is such a high standard... amazing footage and information! I'm aiming for this standard on my channel. Awesome 🙏
Your videos are grad-school worthy lessons that I never fail to learn from. I am fascinated by these topics.
Nice! I love the little animations on the monuments!
They really explain it a lot more.
Fascinating stuff! I've been looking for a comprehensive video on this subject for a while now, and who better to deliver it than my man Survive the Jive!
Fantastic video, really well put together. Very professional looking. Full of facts and historical stories with good narration. Top marks for the fab animation of carvings.
'The answer is yes' 🇬🇧 common ancestry explained within the first 19 seconds
Brilliant video, Tom! Fascinating, enthralling… brilliantly illustrated
Many thanks!
Good to see you Tom, thanks for the great content.
Bravo! Yet another quality video covering the rich heritage of the British Isles and indeed of Europe too.
Near where I live in New Mexico there is a geologic formation called Hogback and it looks just like those gravestones
These videos should be on TV , there's no BS hype or sensationalism to attract attention .
Just great ,well researched information that can be trusted and used by students of history.
I just saw an ancient burial mound in Ireland from 5000 years ago. With Neolithic massive stones with ancient spiral patterns. My mind was blown and this channel makes me wonder about much more. Thanks for the history videos about out ancestors past.
Are there images on line of these stones with their spiral patterns?
@@PadraigTomas en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newgrange
@@PadraigTomas yes. All over them.
Outstanding production value. Very good video.
Really appreciate those animations, they seem small but it helps to conceptualise these stories
Wonderful informative video. American here with Manx ancestors. 🇮🇲
Another great doc. I had no idea that the tradition originated in England. I wonder how many of these crosses were lost during the reformation as a lot of old christian sites were plundered. Stones with any obviously prechristian imagery wouldn't have been tolerated by the puritans.
Probably most of them were, especially in Scotland. The ruthwell cross was knocked down and smashed by protestants and then repurposed as a pew. Freemasons re-erected it in the 18th century and added a new cross stone with masonic imagery hence the triangle
@@Survivethejive Shame that so much was lost and probably why these crosses are today associated with Ireland, because they didn't have to suffer such zealotry.
Ah unfortunately we did. Many of our ancient buildings, churches and ancient stone artifacts were destroyed during 800 years of invasion and colonisation. Henry VIII et al decimating monastic settlements and outlawing the Irish Church. Very few medieval or earlier religious buildings were left standing after the Tudor and Cromwellian invasions. What was left was just a tiny portion of what was there previously
A topic that has always interested me. Thank you for the video and a comprehensive answer
Very informative, and thought provoking. As usual you spoil me. Thank you.
Incredibly Indo-European!
Incredibly very indo-european!
Excellent video Tom. I've always loved knot work, and this was quite enlightening. Very good production values too. Cheers
Tom, can you do one on the history of plaid or Tartan. How it is found as far west as the British Isles and as far east as the tarim basin? Which was old as hell too. How ubiquitous was it back in the day? And why does it only really seem to be preserved in Scotland and Ireland I guess
kilts were necessary for blacksmiths to not become infertile lol! I love that Tartans represented their clans heritage like a totem, a symbol for others to recognize identity. I think because cloth-work factories remained a thing in the UK for so long, and that surnames became mandatory so early compared to other areas of the world (after 1066) the clan names and their tartans were remembered.
@@mayamaeru clan tartans are only ~200 years old. Clan names are far older than the tartans and have almost nothing to do with one another.
@@jackhanson1274 oh interesting. On wiki it says they range in date from 21st century to considerably older and the Welsh ones are all new but some Scottish clans have very old tartans. I wonder what is the oldest
@@jackhanson1274 1500-1600 AD oldest tartan
@@mayamaeru Aye, the oldest tartan cloth dates to the 16th century, I've even been to see it. I don't know if the exhibition is still on in Dundee, but I really recommend it, it's incredible to see something that old and to admire the craftsmanship! It was not a clan tartan however, we have no information to indicate that tartan played a symbolic role before the early 19th century. In fact, I'd argue that we have more evidence that your clan name was far more impactful. For example, I have a book of Gaidhlig proverbs and a large anthology of Scots and Gaidhlig poems, out of all that only one proverb mentions "tartan" at all. However, there are many proverbs and poems that speak of the duties in a clan, who must do what and for whom. It's clear to me that where you lived and who you were allied with were far more impactful than what you wore. The very specific mutation of "clan tartans" arises in the early 1800s and is mostly nonsense for the gentry, largely divorced from the lives of Highland folk whose culture had been appropriated by said gentry to play dress up in Edinburgh.
Edit: a few edits to improve readability!
I failed to convince a friend who's tattoo which was straight out of the Sutton Who burial wasn't Celtic.
remember a bunch of people were claiming sutton hoo was a celtic burial a few years ago! lol
@@SurvivethejiveI had an Irish relative with Tiw complete with the beasts tattooed on his shoulder, i never had the heart to tell him.
Sutton Hoo is obviously a Swedish burial tho. Same motives and helmet style found in Sweden hundred years earlier in Sweden. Same molds / stamps for the artwork found in Sweden. Or alternatively it could been ordered and made in Sweden to a anglo-saxon king, but then why the Swedish motives?
@@LordOfSweden No, items like this are found in other parts of Britain and made here, the mythology is found all over northern Europe and common to most Germanic peoples, the work of Anglo Saxon craftsmen is extraordinary maybe it was sent to Sweden.
@@hetrodoxly1203 No they are not. The Sutton Hoo helmet is unique and has the same motives as the vendel helmets together with the ornaments found together with it.
It just makes sense.
What other helmet like that are found in Britain from that period or earlier?
Nah.. the stamps and molds have been found in Sweden for these exact motives.
This is so good. I have wondered this myself
What an absolute feast for the eyes and senses!
A truly remarkable piece of work. Well done!
I'm loving the video quality! Have you been to the Hunterian museum in Glasgow? It has a great collection of Roman distance slabs and stelae from around Hadrian's Wall and further north. The influence on Pictish stones and artwork (regarding depictions of battles/warriors/mythology) is uncanny when you see them side by side.
Yes some of this video was filmed in the Hunterian
finally, someone who makes an effort to pronounce skandinavian words/names properly! bravo
Superb work STJ. Very informative while being completely accessible. it also means I can now correctly I.D my tattoos! 🙄
In case anyone doesn't know. I have ancestry from Strathclyde and also from Ireland. I like Scottish and irish culture and people and I celebrate it. Just because this video may not match your beliefs, that doesn't mean it is an attack on them.
Next thing we'll be told it was the sub Sahara Africans made them like they seem to have made everything else as of late.
Have you ever thought about starting a podcast about these topics? Maybe just using the audio from your videos? There’s so much info here that I could listen to it all day long!
I have one already
Absolutely fascinating video Sir, I shall use this for reference for my on going studies, cheers.
Fascinating presentation! Thank you!
Great job on this video.
Them shorts are naughty af look like General Montys shorts. also great video always informative detailed information laid out and the fact you actually visit the sites adds another layer to your content.
Fantastic quality 💪 keep up the good work
Love all your content. Posting for the algorithm
12:33 The fragment from Durham cathedral library is more likely from the 7th c. not the 6th. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_Book_Fragment_(Durham_Cathedral_Library,_A._II._10.)
Very interesting.
Good to hear of the Celts arriving in Britain and Ireland in the Bronze Age (And not the Iron Age as once thought). However I’d put the Celtic migration as even older, in the Mid Bronze Age (These things are often older than we realise).
However, I reckon the Germanic, Celtic and Latin peoples were all the one peoples originally, but all had a strong substratum cultural layer maintained from the older Neolithic era.
(Yes they are all Indo-European, but I reckon they were all once part of the same branch of it).
But I also reckon there was more going on though. And that the interlace style is even older still.
As that interlace art style is also found in the Middle East:-
ruclips.net/video/65pCbaRyrqA/видео.html
Also, I reckon there was an earlier migration to Eastern and Northern Britain and North Western Ireland from Scandinavia in the Late Bronze Age, yet to be discovered.
It is amusing to still read the outdated assertion that things Celtic are a uniquely middle Iron Age phenomenon and Celts *could not have arrived* in Ireland prior to about 200 B.C. Celtic is a late neolithic to Chalcolithic phenomenon, and part of the Proto indo-European dispersal subsequent to Yamnaya. A Bronze age entry cannot simply be dismissed.
Yup and the Germanic-Celtic-Latin group makes sense.
@@cinaedmacseamas2978 And the designs show a definite Asian/Steppes influence. Yamnaya area and many different cultural influences of the Steppes before the diaspora.
Funny about an hr before you posted this interesting vid I was wondering what you were up to and low and behold here your are , happy new yr and all the best
Govan is of course, not only famous for it's ancient works of art, but also for the decaying Celtic mythological legend that is Rab C Nesbitt.
OH AYE, RAB AND A WHIFF AF PISH FUR SURE DADDY'O ! ! !
@@jeffharper9703 Nae wunner it's boggin. Ye cannae whack quick pish up the close on waiy hame, can ye?
@@lairdkilbarchan Och well... but nae tae forget the scitters efter a "few" pints o' cider runnin oot af yir shiter.
@@jeffharper9703 Ye ken fine weel it wisnae scitters, I jist huvnae washed ma breeks since thon time the wean's dug keeched in oor Hotpoint.
This was funny, thank you.
Babe wake up new artwork lore just dropped
Haven't watched the video yet but I believe they are universal in the mind. In pretty much any psychedelic experience I have had I have seen those knots and patterns in my head. I think this is where they come from. Same with the Triskelion symbol or the Symbol that the Isle of Man uses on their flag, I see those as well in my mind during these experiences.
19:15 That was on purpose 😂
Great content as always!
Ah, that makes things make sense a little more. I was a bit confused about all the Anglo-Saxon “Celtic Crosses” dotted around the place 😂. I never got around to looking into it, but I knew there was something funny about it. Thanks for clarifying…
I am from Sweden and I have been facinated by runestones my whole life. I have always had the feeling that they tell a story about a person similar to the totempoles of North America.
If a person would have mixed origin like inter-married parents they would mix in designs of that culture to respect those roots. It could also tell the story of a place where the developments of different cultures would be placed on top of eachother to show how the culture of the place has developed, placing the cross on the top to show the current time. Perhaps a way to later be able to date the stone (from the christian era...) But as we say in Sweden when we know we cannot fully understand something - it's wyrd. :-)
Fascinating as always
So I guess the answer to the question is simply, yes.
Great video Tom.
Tom, do you know about what era the Proto-Celtic/Germanic/Italic people starting becoming distinctively Celtic, Germanic and Italic? You and Sturla are some of the only honest archaeologists left when it pertains to ancient Europeans. Thanks again for another top shelf lesson on the history of Our People, my brother!
Iron age
Nice! All of my art is a fusion of various European art styles from across time and place. I've often thought that whether natural or intentional, it seems that the various styles were evolving to become compatible and easily fuse.
I just wish we could go to the bottom of the north sea and excavate the sunken lands of Old Frisia. There we would find all kinds of missing artistic links.
Great video, I just subscribed! ☺️
More great content, from one of the best providers. 👍
Wonderful to see the ancient and present side by side in that church . Quite moving.😲
The animations were very cool.
I was considering a similar topic to this video for my bachelors' dissertation, but went with the topic of the Romanitas and imperial imagery of the Angevins instead. Thoroughly enjoyed the video. Made me reminisce, as this topic was what got me thoroughly interested in landscape history.
That sounds very interesting
@@Survivethejive A good book which set the groundwork for this idea is Abigail Wheatly's Idea of the Castle in Medieval England. Highly recommend it.
Scholarship hasn't really taken into account the full implications of the book just yet, but the ball is starting to roll. It's especially important due to the idea of the four empires being so prevalent in the minds of medieval people. You can see this same narrative play out in the crusades with how they refer to the Turks and Egyptians and Babylonian, and Alexandria in Egypt as Babylon. Makes me wonder to what extent building castles was sacred, given church and castle architecture is virtually identical. Very reminiscent of how you described gårds as sacred spaces/sacred enclosures.
Just found your channel and subbed right away. Love good research, even if it moves me to change my understand of "Celtic" art...
I'd always noticed that Insular Celtic art never had interlacing lines. It always surprised me how it wasn't really mentioned in art books. Glad you've done the research on it. Well done.
Loved those animations.
Fantastic doco STJ!
Nice! Great footage, interesting research, fantastic music.
Looking at all those carrick bend knots on the base of that font, one can only speculate that the carrick bend and Stafford knot may have been Anglo-Saxon heraldic devices of some sort.
What an excellent production 👏
So many great things have been found at or near to hadrians wall.
My favourite are the vindolanda tablets ( like postcards )
Especially love the bitchy ones from a woman laughing to her friend about another woman at a party who had "last season's hair style " etc. , shows nothing changes in that respect, lol
Jive do you realize how many Celtic nationalists are going to be triggered they tattooed a Viking/Saxon symbol on their body? They will tell me I am triggering them with fighting words 😂.
Saxons never made it to ireland, the knotwork and animal designs where influenced to the viking urnes style of art and developed to an indigenous design. The spiral designs on the book of kells are not saxons or viking. They're a development of celtic art.
Back when I did my applied arts major in Viking art, the source texts I cited stated that Viking art used animal motifs while Celtic art used plant motifs. So you have to look closely at the details, terminations etc to see if it's animal heads, tails, feet, hooves claws, teeth etc. However, there is a caveat in that the Viking period spans several generations, so influences merged over time. So, it's a rough rule of thumb that is more relevant to the earlier than the later period.
But the illuminated manuscripts of pre Viking age britain use animals too as did the Anglo Saxon knotwork
If Bede is correct, pre-Christian Anglo Saxons were a confederation of pagan peoples once pretty well indistinguishable from Viking culture, worshiping Tiw, a precursor to Odin & Thor. Bede has them originating from the north side of the Elbe up into the tip of Jutland, and coming into South Britain with the withdrawal of Rome about 400 AD ish. While the Vikings period runs from about 600 AD, though their forays into Britain were a little later. Yes, there is not a lot of difference between Anglo Saxon & Viking art and weaponry, except that the Vikings used spectacled helmets (the eye & nose piece tended to be attached on the outside of the helm, while the Anglo Saxon one tended to be attached inside the helm rim. Also the Viking Swords tended to have a 3 lobed Pommel, but a lot of weapons were traded from the Franks to anyone who could pay (apparently). Theses are the reasons I didn't make a distinction between Viking & Anglo Saxon, but I did make a vague one between Viking & Celtic. There was just a lot of mixing going on, so these things are not 100% guaranteed rules, just trends. People mostly just used whatever they could source, do it's not a sharp delineation, especially by the end of the Viking period.
I love these examples of local sites.