Ford EEC-IV No Spark Diagnostics
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- Опубликовано: 6 окт 2024
- In this video I will walk you through a no-spark diagnosis on this old school EEC-IV ignition system, but don't let the age of the truck lead you to believe that the tests shown are no longer relevant. The techniques I use on the system, I am still using on todays cars!
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Due to factors beyond the control of ScannerDanner LLC, it cannot guarantee against unauthorized modifications of this information, or improper use of this information. ScannerDanner LLC assumes no liability for property damage or injury incurred as a result of any of the information contained in this video. ScannerDanner LLC recommends safe practices when working with power tools, automotive lifts, lifting tools, jack stands, electrical equipment, blunt instruments, chemicals, lubricants, or any other tools or equipment seen or implied in this video. Due to factors beyond the control of ScannerDanner LLC, no information contained in this video shall create any express or implied warranty or guarantee of any particular result. Any injury, damage or loss that may result from improper use of these tools, equipment, or the information contained in this video is the sole responsibility of the user and not ScannerDanner LLC.
Doing electrical part of my course, this helps so much thank you mang 🙏🏾
Merchant DJ there is no better teacher than Scannerdanner for getting thru the electrical part of any automotive course. Even his oldest material is light years ahead of modern curriculum as far as detail and clear easy to understand approach. Thanks to Scannerdanner, I was eventually hired as a diagnostic trainer and had to go back to my old trade school and do a seminar on labscope diagnostics to all of my old automotive instructors 😎 pretty hard to beat that feeling lol. Thanks again Paul!!!
Thank you so much guys!
Love watching you do what you do. Hope you and your brother and son and his baby is all well. Keep me in your prayers I'm having having heart problems again and I'll be going back to hospital for heartsergry again. God bless you all and keep up the good work
Our well wishes are with you & pray for your good health🙏
It's amazing how Caleb can now anticipate what you are going to say and point the camera where it needs to be without you even telling him. Great job guys!
This was an editing gem my friend. He definitely is getting better at keeping up, but we both think of the editing and what we need while filming and Caleb then works his magic afterwards. You have no idea the level of expertise he now has. Your comment proves it as you couldn't even tell the amount of editing that went into some of those captures. 😉
Props to my son!
Thanks for the comment, I'm going to share this with him.
Aw hell, now you're in my early days. When I started in auto repair, there were more carbs on the road than there was fuel injection. Actually Gm went to TBI in the Silverados the year I started my career. This is the stuff I cut my teeth on. ;)
Nice. I recently fixed an intermittent hesitation/no start in my 1988 Bronco II (that I bought new in 1987) by replacing the distributor. I used a break-out box and oscilloscope to monitor the PIP and SPOUT voltages, and the primary ignition current at the coil. When it died the PIP voltage decreased and took out the SPOUT and primary ignition completely. One of your earlier videos clued me in to the likelihood of the distributor Hall effect sensor being the likely culprit, so many thanks for that.
Man the good old days when we used to go to LaTours garage and you’d b out in the parking lot with your truck backed up to the car. Tripod for a lot of the vid. But we would get the shot of the burned O2 wire laying on the exhaust manifold. I love all those old vids!! And I go back and watch them regularly. There’s gold in them there vids!!
Paul,
Great diagnosis/explanation on the good old EEC-IV - thank you!
Those PIP units are such a pain to replace as you need to remove the distributor gear which is pinned and pressed on. Probably replacing the entire distributor is the most cost effective solution.
Paul (in MA)
When I was 16 I used to have to start my 88 Ford ranger by jumping the solenoid connections with a screwdriver. It was a manual. one time I left it in gear and it drove into a telephone pole 🤦♂️
Yes cars are extremely dangerous when caught someone on surprise. Any individual is exposed to risk of injury when mishandled.
LOL 🤣😝
I had to that to my 83 mustang gt. Grabbed the linkage to give a little throttle while cranking….. got a decent jolt 😬.
Great diagnostic video on a good old Ford.Never get tired of these diagnostics videos.Stay safe everyone.
Having mechanic skills slim to none, I wish I had a mechanic this knowledgeable and trustworthy as this guy near where I live. Having an issue with my 96 f150 4.9. Turns on just fine when cooled then after some driving just shuts right off and won’t turn back on till it’s completely cooled down
ah the ford module!!! was it a 7/32 socket or a 9/32 socket? and you had to grind it down all the way around to fit in the hole!!!!... never forget dy-electric grease between the module and the heat sink!!!
Kept one of the module tools, a spare module, and a tube of arctic silver in the glove box in the mustang 🤣
It's been awhile since I've seen you work/diag on one of these old trucks. Great stuff bro.
Done many of those pick up coils..Had a feeling that's where this was going when you said a new coil and IGM already been shot at it. 😄 Surprisingly these PIPs are still available yet from Ford (E9TZ12A112A) I have found a few things that are getting hard to find tho.
Thanks again Paul and of course..if she's still reading all the comments. "Hi Mom"... Hope your doing well. Wanna see you in another video again soon. take care. ☺
Had this happen to a friends 95 mustang. #1 injector will also not be commanded when the pip fails.
Truck sitting for 2 weeks, replaced all you mentioned, now distributor. Thanks so much!
did you fix it then?
@@ScannerDanner going to do distributor today. Just gotta get on it! I let you know, pretty confident after watching your video, Thanks again 👍
Thanks much scanner Man, put new distributor in and fired right up. I know who I'm looking up on next mishap. Thanks much!
Nice brother., Like you, I have worked on tons of the EEC IV systems. You can change the pickup on them, but the time involved to take apart the distributor isn't worth it. I think the puller kit is still someplace at the my shop for these.
Nice to c another super tech Joe’s Auto Electric comment. I never missed any of your vids. Watched them all. Miss your content. U always had good stories to tell.
Never use aftermarket distributor caps :lol:. I bought a wells one when I first got the 85 crown vic in the mid 90s to do a full tuneup and I had nothing but problems. Then I pulled the center post and the whole terminal came out of the distributor. I fixed it with wire ties to get home. I put the old motocraft one back and returned the POS. Learned my lesson about aftermarket parts.
Hey Joe. Liked your videos a lot. I remember that most of them were very interesting because were tricky to diagnose or because somebody already "worked" on them . 🚬
I can't say thank you enough for this video!! I just had an 89 Bronco w a 5.8l that just flat died on me like you shut the ignition off. Using your method and your tests, quickly figured out it was a bad ICM and pick-up. Couldn't condemn the coil at 1st bc w icm unplugged, I had good pwr in and out of coil, BUT when I plugged icm in, the bright test light on the control side of coil went dim. Anyway (sorry for rambling), it wound up needing dist assy w module, and a coil. Once I had coil control restored, still no spark from it. New coil on, truck ran like a champ! How can I ever repay all the great information......thank you! God bless!
I have an 89 F250 and 89 Lincoln Mark VII. I'm becoming an expert in these systems quickly.. both vehicles had a habit of just quitting unpredictably and then coming back to life after cooldown. Considering a remote mount kit for my ignition modules if they fail again.
I did a 92 f150 5.0 no spark 2 years ago no spark. The first thing I did was pull the distributor cap and the inside of the distributor was alot of rust inside so I replaced that it started and ran but with 200,000 miles on it I replaced module and coil so there wouldn't be any problems.
Nice video. That fan without the shroud can ruin your day quickly. Specially for all the people wearing hoodies and draw strings swinging around.
I worked with a guy that was putting a fuel filter on a crane and was holding on to the radiator shroud to support himself and the operator pushed the starter button. I was really impressed with the guy not choking the operator with his other good hand. His nick name was big Al and he was a hand to hand combat instructor in the Marine Corps. 😁😁
That's handy, a ratchet hammer.
That electrical diagram brings back memories of when my son had an ignition problem with an old Ford Ranger 4-banger. It would not start with the SPOUT wire connected but it ran fine if you first started the engine and then connected the SPOUT wire.
Never did figure it out he ran the truck like that until some lady fell asleep at the wheel on the DC beltway, t-boned his truck and totaled it.
I remember those days Paul. Flashbacks. The negative side of the coil should of flashed if the pickup was good. Right? Hello Caleb and Danner. 👍👍
I'm at 1:53 so far. I'm pulling the cap and checking for distributor rotation and then pickup coil action with a dvom
Remember that Danner is going as if he doesnt know the strategy but knows that the modules responsible for ignition should have their controls right along with their power and grounds.
@@scientist100 yes
@@scientist100 Yeah but us old schoolers worked on an awful lot of those EEC-IV's .... also GM OBD I... read tons of codes with paperclips because the cables for the MT-2500 broke... Oh and who could forget Chrysler SMEC's that you could read by clicking the key 3x.... Yep we old timers worked the heck out of component diagnostics
ignition module not cleanly mounted on heatsink(with thermal transfer grease) will overheat and die in mere seconds to minutes, depending on ambient temps.
overzealous screw tightening, can warp the heatsink and module both, making them not have good contact except at the outer edges and yet again self kill in short order!
been there done that, long ago.
many of the GM setups had the same issue, with module on heatsink near coil and internal distributor mounted ones, both. after the factory module died, a "yinyang" often repaired and caused the replacement to fail quickly(did that once also), but being into electronics and most all mechanicals, I figured out my err real fast :)
IIRC, the spout connection was unplugged to allow the PIP signal to directly fire the ICM to set distributor timing. Disconnecting the spout was also a handy way to determine whether it was a PIP or PCM problem.
Is the spout connector the part that connects to the ignition module?
@@gmax341 Check out the diagram @14:50. It's between the ICM and PCM.
@@fascistpedant758 ohhh so just a connector that connects wires together. Not sure how to explain it so sorry if it sounds stupid. I think I have seen a few of those. They are rectangle or squared shaped. Normally black in color with maybe red, orange or grey/white weather seals at the ends. Can you believe I've gone through three ignition Control Modules before I found the correct one that didn't set a CEL? Only problem now is my remote start don't work no more! Engine cranks but doesn't fire. I'm sure its probably some wire I knocked loose from the aftermarket system they installed. Thank you anyways!
@@gmax341 I seem to remember it being a small block plugged into the distributor, but there may be different designs.
@@fascistpedant758 I'll have to check and see for sure. If it helps any, I have the 5.8l V8 351W. In a 96 E150.
They don't make them like they used to. This truck shouldn't be in a junkyard. Not for another 30 years. The new 2021 Ford Broncos will be in the junkyard within 10 years. Great video Danner!
Agree completely. I just did some upgrading work on my 92 F250...virtually the same truck as the Bronco...and I'll be driving it long after anything else I see on the road meets the junkyard crusher...lol. I cringe at all the sensationalizing of old great car and truck models...by reintroducing these modern things that have no semblance at all to the spirit of the older models.
Thank you I'll check mine having same issue on foxbody I relocated ignition module behind strut tower but had my bolted down lol
I can say I rarely replaced PIP sensors. but I made sure there was good plugs, wires cap/rotor at first sign of anything amuck. high voltage fireworks inside the cap = PIP death!
GM was more famous for secondary ignition issues killing the coils and that smacking the module, which was then self inflicted short life after from over-torque and bending.
WoW amazing SD, you made it look so easy to fix, Superb as usual👍
I've never worked on these, bcuz when I started as a Tech most of these were probably parked permanently, but I've always wished to master these previous gen systems, they're fun to work on😉
Special Thanks to Caleb & James Danner👍
Stay Safe Guy's❤
A very appropriate teaching with experience and safety.
To augment (Naval Aviation Electronics Advanced Maintenance) working radar, experienced a common FAILURE caused by a weakening magnetic FAILURE!
With an elderly motor, it's likely the same weakening of the magnetic field of the distributor rotor shaft is getting below the engineered limits of the HALL EFFECT (a semiconductor) to perform.
That limit would be sensitive and influenced by a variety of varying influences, creating the "confusion" of intermittent! (Heat of varying mechanical spacing, heat effecting magnetic strength, heat effecting the sensitivity of the HALL EFFECT semiconductor AND the COMBINATIONS, etc.)
Hello,
Thank you first of all for posting all these excellent videos. You are clearly an expert mechanic that is very hard to find these days as most mechanics these days don't have the knowledge of how things work and all what they do is change parts.
I have a real good one for you. I have a 1991 F150 5.8L engine with 123k miles on it that I bought from a chief pilot at United Airline. Anyway, I drove the truck over 800 miles and drove like brand new. I parked it for a week and when I tried to start it, it wouldn't start.
I watched your video and I said to myself I can follow your method to figure out the problem. Note that About 2 months ago, the ECM went bad and I took the ECM out and was able to fix it and it was the same issue with the capacitors going bad.
Anyway, I followed your approach looking to decide whether I have spark at the coil. To my surprise, there was a spark at the coil but not much at the spark plugs so I replaced distributor cap and rotor but to my surprise, the engine still wouldn't start even though I have a spark at spark plugs end. So now I am thinking I have a fuel problem but giving that I have dual tank, it is highly unlikely that both pumps are bad. Hence, I replaced the fuel filter and again the truck failed to start no matter how much I cranked it. Next , using a new fuel pressure gauge, I measured the fuel pressure and it was around 41 PSI so fuel is no longer a possible problem and I am out of options till I disconnected the 2 hoses to air filter and noticed that intake is completely closed. So now I started to think that may be the fuel mixture and spark plugs are flooded giving all the attempts to start it for the last 7 days. To make the story short, I pressed on gas pedal all the way which forced intake to be wide open to outside air and not going through air filter and after few attempts, the truck finally started. It ran rough for the first 30 minutes of drivings and after that the truck is back now running like brand new, idles and drives beautifully.
I am glad the truck is running again but have no idea what caused the no start problem in the first place. This only happened to me once before but the truck started back then after letting it sit for few hours but not this time. One thing to note is when the truck was sitting for a week outside we had very high humidity for few days but not sure if humidity is a factor.
I would very much appreciate your input on what really was the problem. Again, thanks to you, not only i was able to get the truck going without having to wait 10 days for the dealer to look at but I am sure I also saved myself over $1000. The dealers in Chicago area charge extra 25% if your vehicle is old and many don't want to work on it.
Look forward to your reply,
ANJ
P.S. Are your classes available online to take? If not why not? I would live to take your classes. Also, do you do remote consulting for a fee?
Was there a difference in the spark at the plugs after the cap and rotor was done? Weak spark could definitely cause a flooded condition and the clear flood crank was what you needed to do after restoring proper spark. Hard to say. What did you say was in the intake??
@@ScannerDanner
There was nothing in the intake. I was referring to the metal plate that sits on the inside of the intake and opens and closes with the depressing of the gas pedal and functions like choke I think.
I am very much interested in taking your classes if you have them online like RUclips or using zoom.
Thank you again,
ANJ
I forget to answer your question and I don't think there was a big noticeable difference in the spark after changing distributor cap and rotor. I am planning on doing tuneup as it has been a while since existing spark plugs and wires have been replaced.
@@woodyk5127 oh okay, that makes more sense. Thanks! My classes are all available on my website at www.scannerdanner.com I have over 450 hours of training available for $11 a month. Hope to see you there!
@@woodyk5127 okay, there are other causes for flooded conditions too, one in particular to pay attention to is the engine coolant temp sensor. Google how to get flash codes from your truck, it was a really weird procedure and involved using a test light and a jumper wire but I don't remember how to do it. See if you have a code for the ECT
Love it when my notification has a blue dot glowing on SD 😎 Can we hope for a Saturday vid also?? 😉😎
I would pull the fan belt for troubleshooting as it should not get hot in 3 to 5 minutes of running, and you can pull on wires and pound on modules safely. Of course, reinstall it once you are done!
Sometimes the connection to the ignition module, the Pip connection can be corroded... placing your tester in the connector sometimes scrapes just enough of the corrosion away to allow it to run... just a thought.
Hi ScannerDanner
Is there any posibility I could get a link to buy Relay jump starter kit.I am living in uk.I tryied Amozon Ebay I couldn`t find the same stuff.I really like your videos.Great stuuff.
The wiring diagram shows that the PCM can monitor the coil negative terminal through a 22K resistor. It would be interesting to see if it set a DTC. Also, given the high idle speed, I figure the base ignition timing is over advanced.
the sad truth is the parts are still available and so cheap its almost worth it to shoot the parts cannon because most of todays techs never worked on these and the diag labor alone will be the same as the parts
I'd have probably looked at distributor first... always seem to be the issue.
In some cases, it's absolutely true what you are saying.....
@@xephael3485 I had a similar issue with a wells aftermarket distributor cap. Not hard to diagnose though, the center terminal just pulled right out
It's true, those old mustangs have that system and it's parts galore. New high performance parts being made, replacement computer systems being built for the user to program and tweak. An automotive community in its own.
@@jamesd6247 On my 85 crown vic CFI I remember how complicated diagnostics were. You could have a bad EGR solenoid and the car would stall intermittently, etc. No datastream either. You really had to know your electronics and voltages. I really learned a ton from that car, many years ago but solid basic skills that you could use today.
I had a crank crank no start 85 mustang. It blew me that the 5v reference was floating all over the place. Turned out the only ground for the computer was a single wire that had rotted off the battery terminal.
Paul please please do more newer European cars for us people across the pond. Stay safe and thank-you
Great diagnostics, thank you, but… 92’ e350 5.8l, diagnostics pointed to bad ICM, replaced and same results. Read to pull PCM harness plug and test for spark, it did spark indicating bad PCM. Pulled and opened PCM and sure enough one of the blue transistors(?) corroded and came off when touched.
Hey Paul, I noticed that when you dropped the paper on the ground at 2:10 - 2:20 the paper was still clean. That tells me the oil spill was dry from a different vehicle.
Seems like we might see new 2020 Ford Bronco models on your channel guys as well, probably soon) Great video!
They have the same name...and it ends there. These old guys are trucks you can fix and maintain on your own....with a few tools in the back of the truck. Blatantly not the case with anything new. Same name....but that's where it really ends.
I have a 96 F150 with a 1351 after replacing the icm. The icm doesnt need to be grounded but it definitely needs the heat sink so it won't burn up.
Bro, I don't know jack about auto electrical but your changing that! Freakin love the videos!! Keep the amazing job!!
Thank you William! Glad you're here
The TFI heatsink does not need to be grounded to the sheet metal for a ground return. However, it is usually mounted to sheet metal that is a cooler spot within the engine compartment to further reduce TFI temperatures. PIP = Profile Ignition Pickup output is usually pulled up to VBAT. I think I would have put a scope on PIP before trying to manually spark the coil. For the side mounted TFIs with the large heatsink mount I think the distributor pickup fails at about the same rate as the TFI, maybe even more. To be more specific the PIP output is a conditioned window hall effect circuit, which compared to a simple reluctor wheel like in a GM distributor circuitry is prone to failures.
Yes, you can buy the pick-up and not the whole distributor. Just bought a Motorcraft pick-up a few months ago. Much better than any aftermarket parts.
I live in Phoenix and I drive in 110°-115° and that ICM has never been an issue on mine
I once had a distributor stator that would only fail after the engine warmed up, and then I'd have to sit on the side of the road for it to cool before it would start again. It took ages to track down.
Scanner Dunner u are the man lov watching yo vids my man I wish if u were here in SA too was gona bring my Mercedes w203 c240 v6 giving me headeck with misfiring on cylinder 1,2 n 3
Great stuff fellas! Good to see you. I've been taking a breather from auto related stuff both here and on RUclips. No fault of anyones - just needed to step back and breathe a bit. Modern cars still frustrate the crap out of me. Just when I think I've got a handle on it, 3 in a row will come in and mop my ass! I think I'm going to stick with what I'm good at, and that's carburetors, points, or old school electronic ignitions like this system here. Going to pick my battles with modern stuff much more carefully going forward.
Still running this exact system in our '86 Grand Marquis. I had this same failure back in '07, but without troubleshooting knowledge or patience, I replaced both the EEC module and the pickup. I had a 50/50 shot of getting it, but I'm not a gamblin' man, LOL. Oh, I meant to mention that EEC module needs heat conducting compound on the back of it, wherever it's mounted - heat sink or distributor body, for anyone that's reading. I'm sure you already know this.
She's still running great to this day, closing in on 290K miles. Getting ready to park her for the winter, whenever the first road salting happens (or if it even has the potential of happening). We'll be hitting 300k next summer more than likely. Still has the 100% original driveline. Transmission has only had fluid & filter changes. Even has the ORIGINAL in-tank electric fuel pump ... and I ran the ORIGINAL plugged up fuel filter for 14 years, since I had forgotten I had never changed it!! I couldn't hardly blow through it when I removed it! Try that with a modern fuel pump, lol. Anyone that thinks new cars are "better", I beg to differ. ;)
ScannerDanner
The god of troubleshooting
There is a section in the Ford service proceedure on those revolving around disconnecting the spout, jumping the spout and disconnecting the ECM. In my batch fire 5.0 we had an issue where the ecm advanced/ retarded the timing randomly (and) there are issues in those ECM's with dried out caps. If I recall those will throw spark with ECM disconnected asa the coil works off of a feedback between module and ECM. In my case we had spark, fuel, timing and compression and would not fire with ether.
Awesome!! Same problem with my 88 ford tbird..great video!!!
Thanks Paul and cal for this Video. Very interessting Video. Thanks from germany. All good for you and your Family. LG.
Also hooking up a battery charger on medium can uncover a defective hall effect. Charging system voltage versus battery.
Rudimentary electric knowledge is required for type IV systems. Great job waking up that old girl. Sure she'll be better than new after the Hall-effects is replaced.
You should always pop the cap off the distributor and verify rotor rotation. It was not uncommon to see a broke or twisted distributor driveshaft or gear fail.
Seen a couple cases where the roll pin sheared. Had one that ran , just no power. Found out by pulling cap and could turn the rotor by hand. Didn’t have a timing light at the time to know
@@kd7cwg
The valve stem seals would get old and brittle. As they broke in small tiny pieces, they collected in the oil pan. Some of them would get passed through the oil pump pick up screen and jam up in-between the two gears. The oil pump hex drive shaft would twist like a corkscrew then break. Sometimes they didn't break and the timing would be way off and run like shit. Sometimes the shear pin would also break and take out the gear drive.
Drop the oil pan, clean it out and replace the parts. The permanent fix was to replace the valve stem seals with ones made out of Viton. They were good for up to 600f degrees.
Awesome video SD!!!!
Some years ago I owned vaz 2109. It had ignition module generating square wave signals upon hall sensor pulses. It was mentioned in the manual to ensure the hull of module securely fastened to the car body. So I sometimes applied multimeter lead to the hull of module and the other to the car body. In case of poor contact with the body it showed some value. And the second, in case of bad contact with the battery the module unrecoverably damaged. So it was prohibited to unfasten the battery leads when engine is running. I remember I touched the insulation sheath of central wire with bare hand while engine running and have some discharge run through me, some moments engine was choking and then recovered. I was wondering that the sheath of a hot wire carries some high potential charge on its surface and could harm someone if exposed or touched.
I ran all these checks and it was extremely helpful. So glad there are people like you out there to provide this simple yet extremely effective information out there and to do it for free!
But I do have one question,
I’m testing on a 97 f250 5.8 and was checking with a test light on the coil positive and negative wires for that flicker you talk about, I have flicker on the negative side but not the positive. Does this indicate anything that you know of? Or is this normal?
Again thanks for this I’ll definitely be subscribing and following and pass along to anyone else I know, cause this was very basic, the tools used are cheap and the basic knowledge like you said is invaluable and spreads across all makes, models and years.
Greatly appreciated!
Coil positive should be steady and coil negative should pulse. Is that what you see and you don't have spark?
I have coil positive steady and pulse on the negative and the truck seems to be running and starting fine now…I think what happened was when I went to do this test and I shoved the test light probe into the positive side of the coil and attempted to start it, it fired right up and has been working fine now for the last couple hours and several starts and stops.
@shanethissell2136 okay, yeah this test is only helpful during the no spark condition. Thanks!
I think back in the day if the TFI module was deemed bad Ford recommended changing the pick up coil in the distributor as well. I don't remember why, maybe if one fails it takes out the other or something, not sure exactly. At least this one is over near the fender and not mounted to the distributor. Ford had a huge recall on those because of heat failures making them conk out. I think in later years it was moved to where this one is. Those pickups are replaceable but you have to pull the distributor, take the roll pin out that holds the gear on and take the old one off and install new. I can't remember if the gear was a press fit or not.
California sued Ford for this system over failures putting vehicles on the side of the road. Earn the name found on road dead.
Hi Paul. I'M A HUGE FAN! LOL. As I was watching I thought of another variable for a no signal. Wouldn't a broken timing chain or sheard distributor gear pin also cause a no signal from the pickup. PLEASE LET ME KNOW. Thanks 👍
Yes! The difference in my case was the intermittent nature of the no spark condition. So I completely disregarded that, but you're right, I should have mentioned this.
Brilliant thought process as always
I have a 1997 f350 dually 460, I’ve tested the wiring down the grey orange wire to ensure continuity to the computer from the ignition control module, I tested with a test light both sides of the coil -+ sides and have voltage there, i tried jumping the pip wire with the test light as shown in the video and using the coil wire and spark tester i get no spark, when i unplug the icm jumper plug i get spark, the icm has power to it and it is a black module not grey, originally i swapped a distributor out of my other truck that runs and still had no spark nor injector trigger, i did also swap out my eec with the same running truck and still at the same result. I’ve ensured all the fuses have power and the eec computer has power and ground. I’m sure I’m missing something obvious, I’m open for any questions
What I am really learning here is that your Brother needs to take your class!? I am sure he would be your top student! lol jk. Dude is awesome. Wish you did more work on these old Fords because I am always working on my Dad's 1988 F-150 I6 4.9L.
Hey Paul, real quick. How do we find out if the hall effect signal is a pull up or pull down? As always appreciate your time and your videos filled with knowledge and humor. :)
Unfortunately this information is not really available and most wiring diagrams do not include the ECM internals, so the only way to know is to unplug a known good one and measure the signal wire voltage with the key on. High voltage = pull-down
Low voltage = pull-up
Watch the videos I linked in the cards too on hall effect testing. Thanks!
Pull the Spout connector see if it starts
Awesome video, thanks man
Help trouble shoot issue: 1994 Ford F-150 5.0 automatic.
Issue: running rich, allot of black smog coming from the exhaust and strong smell of gas. Does not seem to be switching gears, RPM are almost hitting 4,000 running at 55 mph.
Parts I’ve changed so far;
- EGR Valve
- cleaned out the Trottle body
- TPS sensor
- IAC sensor
- O2 sensor
- PCV Valve
- MAF sensor
- distributor
- plugs
- ignition coil
- ICM
- air filter
- fuel pump front and rear
- canister purge valve
- vacuum lines
- oil change
- Temp Sensor
- fuel pressure regulator
Hehehe!!! I'm waiting if you draw a schematic diagram of what you are doing by that test light sir.....thank you sir for new knowledge god bless
The pick-up is available. You have to remove the distributor gear and shaft to replace it.
I just had a 98 Chevy 1500 5.7 come in with no spark after putting a motor in, they did cap, rotor, coil, and module. Control was missing, no crank signal(they had already replaced ckp also) the trigger wheel was missing. When whoever put the motor transfered covers and such they forgot the reluctor for the crank.
That’s the stuff I learned on. Oh, good times. Peace
Scannerdanner I would love to be like you
Thank you Dan .
It's Paul Danner and you're welcome!
Your videos are awesome.Thanx S.D.How often do you work on Mercedes bro?
On occasion
if its a manual transmission and your worried just make sure your in neutral and parking break set along with wheel chocks or on a wheel stand meaning truck is not on its wheels
Thanks. And old cars are awesome 🥃
You are a great teacher
Now that was easy Awesome lesson video.
just one(1) thing,u should have put the old mod that was inside truck on,just to see if it ran with it or not.was it a parts chaner or a part on the problem???that's all thank you...
Hi I’ve taken the relay out of my discovery 2 for the air compressor Will there still be power and ground to the compressor
Loving these videos. mad respect 🙏🏻
Go Danner!!!!
no worries your safety comes first and that truck is a hodgepodge mess I mean the radio is hanging halfway out the dash, and due to being on a smaller pulle those fans can easily reach 10,000 rpm if idle speed at the crank/ tach reading is 1000 rpm
I have no power to cab no headlights nothing had smoke under dash ground wire for windshield wipers burnt down caused issue good battery any thoughts thanks
Gonna try this on a 92 f150 I just got for $780 bucks ( it cranks but no spark ) hopefully it’s just the distributor
Do the tests! Don't just swap out a part. Watch my 86 mustang video on why you don't want to do that!
Recently had a 1995 F350 no spark come in. Owner had changed ICM and coil. I unplugged Spout, no spark. Bright light on both sides of coil, but no control. Good PIP. Good power and ground at ICM. Scratching head, suspected owner got bad chinesium module. Plugged in new chinesium module, no spark. Hmmm. Ordered Uscope. Decided to check continuity while waiting on Uscope. Just so happen to check coil neg from coil to ICM first, 50ohm. Hmm. Wiggle harness, get down to 1ohm, spark. The square jack plug on fender was loose, which confuses me because I had bright lights at coil and good PIP. Oh well, it's fixed and out the door.
Remote mounted ICM? (Not on distributor) maybe the PIP was grounded on the distributor housing and the ICM on the fender?
@@ScannerDanner yep remote icm, how did I get good bright test light at both coil terminals through a high resistance loose connector? Unless both wires going through same connector were both equally dim and I didn't notice with no reference "bright" light. And also a good pip voltage through the same connector? PIP was 65mv and 10.23v when bumping through the shutter wheel. All the quick tests pointed to a bad module, had everything required except coil control pulse. Was just a confusing issue since the quick checks are usually accurate indicators for me.
Did you feel like Dr Frankinford there for a second when it started? I heard a high pitched squeak and and thud sound like a door slamming. I suspect it was your lower unit slamming shut!
Lol don't know who that is or what you're talking about here
@@ScannerDanner the look on your face when the truck started was like in young Frankenstein when the monster came to life. Dr Frankenstein/ ford truck back from the dead= Dr Frankenford
To get to the " Distributor Ignition Pickup" you have to take the distributor completely apart. Believe it or not you can get the part online, really cheap. But I found it to be quicker if you just drop in a new distributor. That's why I love Fords, you can get practically any and every part online. Their parts are almost always cheaper than any other maker, for a comparable part.
Being from China the new distributors are a shot in the dark as many are dead in the box.
Indeed, a new distributor assembly often costs less that the components individually
I thought the way to test the coil power side was ignition on test lead grounded and probe the backside of the power as you did.
But I thought the way to test the negative side was to put the test light on the positive terminal of the battery and then probe the negative coil wire and then turn the motor over and it should flash on and off.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
But just checking them the way you did didn't seem to prove anything.
ruclips.net/video/jJmqdhhduVc/видео.html
Watch this one, then we can talk further.
And if you're really feeling like you need more, watch these.
ruclips.net/video/LdnnFD6J8Uo/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/YBE7c7lfmnY/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/-ZGLoSSowYY/видео.html
So what would the problem be if you've already replaced the pickup coil the ignition coil the ignition module and it still has no spark? I can induce spark with a pin stuck into the PIP wire and a test light off the negative side of the battery... I can also produce spark with the old ignition module plugged into the trucks wiring harness and the old pickup coil plugged into that and running my pocket knife blade through the pick-up coil.. but when I pulled the distributor out of the motor and plug that into the trucks wiring harness and ground the distributor to the battery using a jumper cable it gets no spark however I did notice that by touching the distributor housing with the grounded battery cable it creates park in the same way the test light create spark when touched against the PIP wire.
I have no ground to this module, trying to figure it out why. This video did help but more work is needed. Why no ground to the module is the question.
I have more EECIV diag videos that deal with the ignition system. In fact I have a playlist
@@ScannerDanner You are amazing answering me Thank you. I will watch them.
Love your videos. Thanks !
Still no start. Still buying parts. I think it’s my coil spark quality. Coil sparks great to ground but will not spark to distributor cap. Maybe spark quality is not correct?
I'm trying to remember where the tool I have to pull that distributor gear is.
Thanks great info. Got all the goodies. Still no spark. What’s the next check?
What does your test light (incandescent) do on coil positive and coil negative
@@ScannerDanner with the key on, and test light on ground, the red wire lights up, the light green wire does not, but it sparked at he connection when i touched it, like it's a bad contact on the coil.??
Watched your video 4 times, making all the checks, just missing something...all the fuses are good, cleaned all the connections, got the spark tester, and the remote ignition, can't trigger a spark by tricking the pip wire with 12v either. going crazy.
@@markhava6491 it could be? Both sides of that coil should be lit with the key on
@markhava6491 if your connections are good, you have one of 2 things going on.
1. Coil negative is being grounded all the time, making your test light not light when connected to ground.
2. Your primary coil winding is open (bad coil).
To confirm, with key one and coil positive showing you that the test light lights and coil negative showing you it doesn't. Switch your test light to battery positive and recheck. Tell me what you see. It's important that the key stays on and you confirm coil positive stays hot so we don't get a backfeed when we check coil negative with the test light to battery positive
What generates the square wave that you are doing by hand?
These trucks were alot of weird issues.
I found they have to throw a 1 inch hot spark or will never start.
Change the module in distributor .
One kid replaced everything would not start and it had good spark by not enough to run.
Bizarre.
Some had to have coil actually grounded and often rust would cause it not to Start in 80s.
I hate these Fords.
Excellent videos Thanks alot.
I've got a 92 and it runs endlessly. Only time I ever had a problem was when the rotor finally wore out and needed to be replaced. The drivetrain is incredibly sturdy on these trucks...and the simplicity is a great thing. Not hard to rebuild anything on these trucks, if one puts their mind to it. I'll be driving my truck for at least another 20 plus years after recently doing a rebuild of both the engine and tranny....virtually everything done on my own except the machine shop work on the core of the engine. That's the real beauty of these trucks. They'll outlast anything new on the streets these days....because no one wants to pay huge repairs when current vehicles get into higher mileage. You won't be fixing them at home....so they'll get crushed.
@@joeidaho5938 you are lucky . I have so many come in shop. Frames rotted on box section next to front axel strut.
302 v8 was good . 300 l6 terrible EFI issues .
Happy you are good.
@@MitzvosGolem1 Ya...the frame is the key to longevity. I've been trying to protect mine...slowly applying rust paint or some kind of protection. I know the engine and tranny will always last longer than the frame on these trucks. My engine is also now at 40 over on the bores but just rebuilt it with upgrades. Life has to end at some point...lol. I'm just hoping it's good for another 20 years or so. Thanks for your response. Cheers!
@@joeidaho5938 the pre efi Ford's are good. We live in salt belt near snow and ocean so Toyotas all frames rotted .
I like the 79 Ford's simple .
Glad to hear your rig is ok.
We spray frame undersides with Krown oil from Canada. It's like a waxy oil never comes off and no rust.
Don't use tar rubber undercoating is bad. Holds water behind and hides rust.
Use oil grease. Many use bar and chainsaw oil in North .
Cheers
@@MitzvosGolem1 We're in a bit of a salt belt also here in Toronto....with constant salt on roads, sidewalks, mall parking lots and so on. I've only been back in Toronto for 6 years, as I got my truck out in the Vancouver area where I lived for 25 yrs. There are still so many out there....and they use sand on the roads mostly, thankfully. It's absolutely rare that I see anything pre-1995 on the road here in Toronto. The truck is definitely a rarity here. As far as the efi, mine runs fine, on the whole, although after my rebuild I have a little bit of tuning to do. I think it's the issue of needing to install a spacer on the idle air control to allow more air to get in when first warming up the truck. It wants to stall when the revs first drop off after the initial idling. I end up having to keep my foot on the gas for about 30 seconds and then it's warm enough to have a steady idle. Still surges just a little bit but not a real issue. I also didn't reinstall the pipe coming from the lower intake to the egr valve that then pumps back into the upper intake (plenum). Instead, I installed a small air filter on a pipe from the egr so it pulls in clean air, rather than air from the lower intake. Changes the balance of air a little bit, but that pipe from the lower intake is a royal pain in the ass after I installed an Edelbrock upper and lower intake.
Hello, Paul. Do you think that an ignition coil can be cooked by an oil leak from a leaky tube seal? If yes. could you please explain how that happens?
"Cooked" no, ruined yes. Oil could swell the boot and act as a conductor shorting out the spark from getting to the plug
The ignition module in my 87 T-Bird is on the distributor and over the years I've had two of them fail while driving. Are there kits for remote-mounting them?
On my 90 f150 4.9 liter the ice is mounted on the distributor. I should be able to connect my test light to the pos on the battery and probe to the pip wire(being the top wire?) and with a spark tester between the distributor and coil I should see a spark. Correct? I've been leaning toward the pickup coil being my no spark issue
Yes, top wire is the PIP signal that is basically your hall effect signal or pickup.
With the key on, measure voltage there first. It will depend on where one of the hall shutters is, as to if the signal voltage is high or low. If it's low, yes, test light to B+ and pull it high
If it's high, then test light to ground and pull it low
Make sense?
معلم يا سكان ❤❤❤❤❤