Vintage Speaker Upgrade: Replace Your Capacitors!
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- Опубликовано: 6 сен 2024
- Possibly Unsafe is back with a speaker upgrade! Turns out capacitor performance degrades over time... and as ESR (Equivalent Series Resistance) goes up, the highs go away. So this week we're replacing the capacitors on a pair of vintage Klipsch speakers to restore the sound back to the original spec. It's easy... and there's a good chance upgrading the capacitors in your crossovers could make for better sound.
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Holy crap, Patrick Norton. I haven’t seen you forever. Great to see you again. You and Leo Laporte were my favorite IT guys with Tech Tv like 2004. Thanks for this.
Nothing beats vintage audio - they just don't make stuff like they used to, especially receivers and amplifiers. But, as capacitors age beyond 25-30 years, they need to be replaced as they go out of spec, ESR goes up and they tend to leak around the leads and onto the circuit board which then eats away at the board.
This is a great video.
I agree with you on speakers but I have to say that class D amps are they way to go, especially with Klipsch. I have a 15 W Class D amp running both my KG 5.5s and La Scalas and the sound is effortless and very 'fluid'. I actually just got new caps for my HIP from parts express this morning and am excited to put them in later.
@@ColoradoStreaming I have 3 class D amps. All neutral, transparent and FAR more powerful than vintage.
@@scottlowell493 lol oh really? You haven't heard the right vintage amp then.
This afternoon I examined the crossovers of Kef C80 Speakers made in 1988. Fourteen capacitors in total on each board. I carefully unsoldered one lead of each cap and measured the ESR with a meter. Not one of the Alcap had an ESR higher than 0.24 ohms, nor had the uf value changed from specified. So, before spending a small fortune on designer components check them out first and save some money !
You're absolutely right
I bought the fully assembled kit from Bob. It made a HUGE difference with my 1980 Heresy's. I absolutely love them now. They were really flat before. Now, they sing like no other speaker I have.
Absolutely makes a difference. Anyone saying differently is full of shit or has absolutely horid ears
Good to know. I recently picked up a pair of 1981 Heresy's. I'm driving them with an MC240 and they sound fantastic. I just purchased a crossover repair kit from Bob not because the speakers sound bad, but because I know they can sound better. It's coming in a few days and I'm looking forward to swapping out the old oil cans.
I changed caps in my 49 year old KEF Cantor cross over network for Monacor caps. I was chocked how the mid and treble suddenly opened up and played music with a chrystalline quality to it. Was not expecting this total transformation. At first I kind of was overwhelmed...having been used to the vintage warmth and the softness ...
Appreciate the video. Thanks dudes. I actually work on HID are lighting and have seen many blown capacitors over the years. But in that particular application, that old school oil filled capacitors are the best.
Now I'm ready to order a kit for three sets of vintage speakers and re cap all of em. They definitely need it.
Good and fun video guys! Congratulations for the job and the new car! Now I want to point out that if you try to listen to a speaker while another one is playing, you make it harder to distinguish the subtle variations between them. When I test some speaker modifications, I connect both of them on the right or left side of my amplifier, one on the 'A' channel and the other on the 'B' channel. By switching from on 'A' to 'B' I can be sure to have reliable point of reference to judge the change. Thank you and good luck on your next projects!
I have Klipshe Forte II's Vintage my butt. These things still kick out better and more sound than anything else I've heard. LOVE my Forte 2's
+WreckDiver99 Forte II's, what I have. Bought them in the box (used of course) for $200 each, a steal in my book.
+Scott Martin oh yea....that's a steal. I don't even want to talk about what I paid for my Forte II Speakers 25 years ago....but I can rattle windows a block away and they aren't distorted. too bad Klipshe was bought out and their quality dropped. These are some of the most efficient speakers and best sounding speakers I've ever had the pleasure of owning (away 25 plus years ago the best I heard).
+WreckDiver99 I have had them for about 5 yrs, the guy bought them new, went military so he shipped them in the box to Japan and back, and then sat in his basement (dry, thank goodness!) for almost a decade. I am very pleased with being able to rattle the windows myself! Peace my friend
@@docmartin449 how the fuck did u find them for 200 each? Lol. Bro yiy have no idea how low that is. Especially in the box. Wtf. No one will ever find that deal again
My beloved circa 1986 AR 58b speakers and I thank you! 😀
I did the Crites thing on Heresy I’s and Forte I’s, a noticeable diff. But in the Heresy’s I left the old caps there disconnected, for originality if nothing else, and they looked cool. Funny too was that every cap I replaced I tested with an LCR meter and all were in spec with low ESR, but not as low as the new sonicaps. Somehow they sound better with new.
You guys should update the title to Klipsch heresy upgrade. Alot of Klipsch fan would appreciate this video
squacker is the original term used for midrange frequency driver. gosh I feel so old at 50, when I went to electronics school 30 yrs ago, we still call them squackers.
+ Squawker
T C Woodworks and Design Midringe drivers have been called squawkers for at least 70 years. I've been following stereo--and mono--components since before you were born. I don't know if you are misspelling or mispronouncing the name, but it's "squawkers."
Thanks guys! I have a pair of 1983 Heresy with the same Type E network that I'll be replacing the oil cans with new caps. I have minimal soldering experience so it was nice to see how easy it is.
3:25 Is that a big Tech Tv sign in the background... ooh look, my childhood. lol
I had 2 pair of 1974 vintage Altec Lansing Model 7 Speakers which I changed capacitors and speaker terminals. I spent $150 on the first pair and they sounded much better than the pair not recapped. I spent $350 on the second pair (they have sentimental value). They sound much better than the first pair. The highs are really different. One thing I notice is how a snare drum and cymbal sound real (had a drum kit for years). I can't believe how good these speakers sound. The source and Dac, pre amp, class A tube amp all contribute. I doubt that for what I spent you could buy better speakers. The lesson is different capacitors sound different. You can spend a little or a lot. If you like highs buy a higher grade capacitor for the tweeter. I purchased parts from Parts Connection. New caps can take more than 100 hours to break in. Be patient.
Those old PIO caps tend to sound great and last practically forever.
WOW!!! Looking for my first capacitor replacement, and super stoked to see a P.Nort tutorial. My project is off to a good start!!!
Using the balance control on the receiver or pre - amplifier would have made the comparison far easier.
Yea! You're back. Glad to see Michael is still alive. Keep these up please, as this is one of your best and most interesting productions, Patrick.
Thumbs up for Yeungling but glad you're back.
Man this show looks awesome, shame it seems we aren't getting any anymore
Most old electrolytic caps should be tested or replaced, however these orig caps are high grade components. They are probably well within spec. Unnecessary replacement in such case devalues the speaker and more than likely degrades their performance. (wise to test them and restore to original)
false the ESR is prob super high compared to these newer caps and unless you have $1000 for a decent ESR meter to test that spec...
@@jozeppy26The notion ESR affects the sound is a mis application of the test. ESR is good for finding leaky caps at high DC voltages.... ESR is measured at 100khz, not in the audio spectrum. Modern film caps discharge so quickly on AC (audio) -- this affects tonality worse than an old leaky cap.
FYI,next time change the balance from 1 speaker and hear it,then change balance all the way to the other speaker and let us hear the difference if there is any with the new parts vs the old parts live on camera.thanks for the info on the fix.
I really look forward to future videos. I'm not sure what happened with the Diy Tryin channel so I was glad I found this channel.
Well this aged badly
Nice video my vintage speakers sure need some updating
Nice to see you back,worried you were gone forever.
You're finally back. Good job guys!
Where did this channel go??? :\ Or either of these guys.
Hey Pat should let leoTard solder the next one
The oil filled capacitors don't sound very good but don't need to be replaced. Only electrolytocs need to be replaced. Mylar caps don't go bad. The newer caps are Chinese metalized caps that sound terrible. Don't change your caps unless you want to have a bright sound
This is a ridiculous. You can't listen to one speaker at a time on a table. It's stereo. Different things are coming out of each speaker
Fantastic video, and I found a new artist to listen to Win Win!
should probably also replace those iron core inductors with air core ones
On your preamp there should be a knob, slider, or pair of buttons that is labeled "balance". When comparing left and right channel output through loudspeakers... use the balance knob to switch back and forth between speakers to compare the output sound.
That and setting the output to "Mono" if possible. Helps to compare apples to apples.
Change out the coils with air coils also. Another improvement, maybe not as much as the caps but an improvement.
Turn the wire stripper around, it works much better!
Wow those speakers sound so more realistic than the modern crap we hear, it sounds like a real person in the room singing.
Been saving up myself to do exactly what you talked about with a pair of Beovox S45-2's that I got a hold of recently, for free. The only damage they have is a small ding in the metal frame on the front of one of them, total score.
Good to see the show back!
Anyone catch the old Tech TV logo around 3:30 ?
Awesome.
"If it's 10 or 20 years old, or at least from the 70s or 80s" is quite a large difference (10-20 years, vs 25-45 years, when the video was made)
Presumably anything older than 10 years old could possibly have degraded capacitors?(depending on the quality of the capacitors)
Wir freuen uns, Ramses Electronic Imaging and Sound Systems unter uns zu sehen.
Now for more serious talk. What is the caps I need to get for my Dynaco A25's. Thinking I may need to recap them. Hope you can help me out
You guys look like Real life WRECK IT RALPH and FIX IT FELIX!
5:34 "I think I hear a difference".
Exactly what I was about to say. I can't tell a difference with upgraded DACS. =D ha ha ha ha I expected I wouldn't be able to either.
Holy crap, this is a channel? Subbed.
Great video, enjoyed watching. Currently dabbling in the hobby of vintage audio. Old tech tv fan, Tekzilla, Tekthing... Patrick let us know where you end up making content in the future :)
You mentioned you had 5 videos that were almost work. Are they coming any time soon? You have some interesting stuff going on here. Don't waste it.
I wander if you can help me,I been trying to recap my speakers crossover ,I can seen to find anywhere this capacitor made by spirit 106J 100v and also spirit 275J 250V any ideas ? I’ll appreciate and new in this ,thanks
Hey man, what's that channel where you both tried to build a pc that you can hang to the wall? I've been looking for that channel forever! I was trying to recommend it to a friend of mine but I just can't find it haha. You, the guy with the plaid shirt (sorry I forgot your name 😅). I thought I saw you on a channel called 'TechTV' way back in around 2002-ish. I was 8 years old then haha. That was when the sat company in my country has the TechTV channel in its programme.
As cheap as capacitors are, it’s worth replacing them especially if you’re refurbishing them to sell.
The Sonicaps they used are definitely not cheap lol
it doesnt matter what kind of caps you use. in guitar wiring, theres a lot of people that like to yell at each other for using ceramic disk/mylar film/oil and paper/whatever caps in their guitar wiring for the tone knob when it doesnt matter! all that matters tone wise is the number because theyre the same(plus or minus the tolerance of course)
I can't wait until the next episode! Keep it up :D
Probably as the capacitor ages, and the electrolyte dries, it becomes less of a filter, and a larger range of frequencies go to each speaker. I'd never heard the squawker term, I like it :) Might have been interesting to see a before and after spectrogram. Interesting video.
Those are not electrolytics but PiOs. Have you ever seen a 2uF electrolytic THAT size? Those caps were most likely fine.
Hi guys: you made it look so simple I want to upgrade my vintage Kenwood Speakers. Could guide me on how to choose best replacement capacitors? Can I change the values too? Do I need to change the coils also? And what about those white ceramic things? Thanks
Klipsch of that era use Paper in Oil caps (or "oil caps" for short). They don't often suffer from increased ESR over time. That was done here, in all likely hood was a "downgrade". The capacitors used here can in some cases result in a "hot or zippy" sound. Especially in the Hersey which has allot of MF / HF muscle. But hey -- sometimes fresh caps can help -- but did they even measure with an ESR meter?
a $1000 ESR meter? no i doubt it.
Hobby ESR meters are more like $100-200. And, In a pinch a simple multimeter can show faults in some caps.
OK I have re-capped dozens of crossovers and I use a B&K 885 meter to check things out. All of the older PIO's I have checked were high ESR up to .8+ and the new audio poly caps I replace them with are .007 at the worst. Further all the older non PIO cheapo caps used from places like Mexico also test much higher for ESR even if the uf values are OK. New caps have much better tolerance so all the way around you get far closer to the engineers design intent. Now some people like distortion which those high ESR caps will certainly give you but neutral sound from your crossover is best and then change it to taste with Audacity or an equalizer. Yes I have measured them with quality meters and the old stuff is bad.
Wrong
HiFiTown: You're a self-styled expert, but you don't even know the name of the speakers. "LowFiTown" would be more appropriate.
Fucking finally!, I've been waiting for this for way to long.
Glad you're back!!
so what capacitance to use with highs, mids, and lows?
When did soLdering become sohdering?
Great upgrade !! Need to do this
A new episode!!! Yay!!!
This was just incredible! Keep this up!!
What’s up with the ABS plumbing pipe venting the back panel? Heresy’s are a closed box speaker.
2:25
Before changing capacitors, please discharge before or you will get a shock if they have a charge. Check internet for instructions.
The voltages in a speaker are too low to cause a shock.
It's a mystery to me why people like the Heresy's so much. I've owned 3 pairs at various times and thought they all sound harsh with too little bass.
i like these guys
I see who you came up with your RUclips name.
If those large campbell's soup looking things are capacitors then what are those vertical square looking things on the side?
Co to są za kolumny i jaką jest różnica po wymianie kondensatorów czy jest lepsze stereo
The Audiophools are gonna start screaming about PIO caps any second.
(Yay for drunken Snubs!)
You should have hollowed out the old tin caps and placed new ones inside to keep original look
I'm pretty sure they aren't mounting the crossovers on top of the speakers outside of the cabinets
You replace the caps with 200V types only? Why didn't you go for 630V MKPs? They'd sound even better.
tech tip of the day- the fastest way to strip speaker wire is to use a lighter to heat the plastic up, and then pull it off with your hand.
Place a piece of paper or cardboard between the jaws of the clip so it does not act as a heat sink.
I hope You were aware about tolerances of old and new capacitors values in production. It is 99% sure that ANY replacement of capacitors inside crossover the sound must change it's sounding due to fact that of new capacitor applied with new value . Some may think it is the proof that old one was wear but it is likely misleading. There should be appled two more steps: one is to test capacitor for it's deficiences - if it is so important and obvious it must be easy then. Anticipation is not too precise. Second is when wear one is found then new capacitor should be matched to old one with tolerance max 1%. I would keep old capacitor as a sample.
I don't get why they replaced the oil caps, those never go bad. The new ones won't last nearly as long, maybe it's just me.
Great channel! Subbed
guys are fun and I learned from them
I would of just unconnected the oil caps and mount the new caps with some hot glue on top maintaining the old for looks
There is no good electronic test for an old cross over capacitor from the 1970s. Your ears are the best test. I would avoid swapping out original spec capacitors considering the same swapped capacitors would also be old even if you could find them unused.
Why no more vodeos?
Why wouldnt you go back and forth using the speaker left and right selector so you and viewers can hear if there is a big difference.
Great jobs boys.
Cheers
Thanks guys
oooh new show. yay!
Wish this channel was still active =\
to be honest i have done this only to find out . This should only be done if needed these crossovers were so well built they hardly ever have to be changed.
An oil filled cap usedin a speaker should last A VERY LONG TIME. caps in that application are living in benevolent conditions. If the cap is original I wouldn't replace it unless it tests bad because the cap was voiced with that caps characteristics.
If you put a different type of cap in listen to it and make sure you like the sound.
not so easy a job on my Klipsch KLF30'S. got an intermittent midrange (squaker) I'm guessing is caused by a bad cap? Patrick looks familiar, weren't you on the screen savers show years ago?
Love this show just like I loved DYItryin and I'd really love to see this show get on a more regular schedule like TekThing. You guys mentioned before that Michael is a pretty busy guy, does that mean he has another show separate from this one? Or is it just kind of a life/other job thing?
How do you know they were bad?
Should of upgrade the whole crossover
Can you please tell me why you guys don't upload on the other channel you have and which channel or channels will you be uploading to because I like your videos and diytryin was a very good channel but I don't see any new uploads by you guys. Thank you.
Zarif Ahmed DIY Trying is dead, there was some restructuring with the company if I recall correctly. (Check the comments on the last few vids for more info.) and both of them left.
In any case, we got the DIY trying spirit still alive with these two, and that is great!
Without Patrick and Micheal together, it just isn't the same, they are a Top Gear like duo of the DIY world.
CMDR Sweeper
I completely agree with the last part.
Great video, thanks, will be recapping my Heresys soon. Does it matter which side of the new cap connects to which wire?
No, crossover caps should be non-polar.
What happened to DIYtryin?
*****
can you provide a source?
If it ain't broke don't fix it. Unless the driver's sounded really muddy.
Salud desde España
I h8 electrolytic capacitors. Why not just use solid state all around?
Squawker? LOL.
Love this channel why haven't you made new videos?
hey ! where may I send you a pic of my old klipsch tangent 30's filter ? a capacitor fell off from the card by himself and need a replacement. I can't identify what part to order. thanks for help !
Contact Bob Crites at CritesSpeakers.com, he's the go to guy for old Klipsch speakers. Last year he had all parts I needed for a complete rebuild of a pair of Heresy 1s - all I had was the cabinets
www.critesspeakers.com/speaker-cabinets.html