Thank you for showcasing target bows. I NEED someone else besides PJ looking at this stuff, cuz, bless him, he's never given anyone a less than glowing review. Thanks for giving the viewers the real reviews we need to make a decision on a bow we may not be able to go down to the local shop and check out ourselves.
keeping a 5 point scale where you give 0.5 points (i.e. 4.5) would allow more options for you to score and still give somewhat of a comparison to last years bows.
JJ, I just got into target archery last year. I'm a nobody, but I do think you do a pretty good job on your bow reviews sir. Thank you for asking the community what we would like to see though, that's generous. Keep up the hard work sir, you're doing a good job.
First off, i really enjoy your content. When you test a 60lb. bow the advertised speed will not be able to be obtained. I think if you added 10lbs to this bow and a drop away- it would have been really close. Keep the videos coming! I’m excited to see all the new bows as they are released. I really respect your opinions and reviews.
So 5/8 of an inch is a decent reflex for a target bow....but 1/2 inch on a Mathews Title is a shootin son of a bitch 😂 Love the content MFJJ, but there's a chance you might be a tad biased!
They are likely testing it at max draw length, like IBO allows for. 30" draw and 5 grains per pound is the ATA standard. Test it at max draw length and see.
I like the idea you are going to a 10 point system. A few things that a target archer would be interested in would be as followed and can be graded as described. Ease of changing DL-grade does it came with purchase 1-10, rotating module 1-10, need to purchase module 1-10, Range to be able to change DL 1-10. All this goes with the ability to change letoff also so that could be 1-10, When changing DL is it 1/4", 1/2" 1-10, Adjustable Grip system- Does it come with original purchase 1-10, Will the adjustable grip be for degree of angle 1-10, Will the adjustable grip be for micro tuning DL 1-10. Stabilizer mounting hole position- 2 hole rates 5, 3 hole rates 7, 4 hole rates 10, Cable slide- Roller slide fixed position rates 7 Roller slide adjustable rates 10, standard slide fixed position rates 6, standard slide adjustable rates 9. Intergraded rest mounts for rest 1-10. Comes in color: 2 to 4 colors rate 7, 5 to 7 rate 9, 8+ rate 10. Speed is a factor especially for 3D target, so be sure to rate for that as you have been. Last but not over looked is the string. Is it color matched to bow rate 1-10. After that alot of target shooters change them out. Limb pockets able to lock down rate 1-10. Cam shimming ease- Must you remove the axle to move cams (break the bow down) rate 1-10, cam adjust with out tearing bow down rate 1-10.
Hey - thanks for the review! Awesome! A quick one - what Through the riser target bow you would recommend for 29DL? 38 or 40 ? and company wise ? 1) PSE - 2) Darton - 3) Hoyt? Cheers . Unfortunately the limbs are not interchangeable for mode poundage , Otherwise its will be great ..
How does it not get a 5 for features as it can be setup for left and right hand people? It's a target bow not a hunting bow lol. Set that bow up with M2 cams and shoot it for a few weeks and you will give it all 5s after you see how accurate and good it feels. It does not shoot the speeds advertised I agree but it is also the fastest target bow I've had/shot. Faster speed equals less poundage needed to keep FPS at topside of allowable class speed. But I do not understand why they didn't use cable rollers this year
Ambidextrous isn't necessarily a positive for the consumer. A lot of people prefer the grip to match for the right or left handed shooter. It may be a positive for pse and the shop for obvious reasons.
@@bmook019 Also: you need to swap the pulleys or the cables to change it from right handed to left handed; it comes from factory as you ordered it, but if you have to swap hand it requires a bow press and a bit of work to change it.
Can't think of anything for testing parameters, especially when it comes to target bows. What I would love to see is a side by side review of two bows such as the PSE Lazer and the Darton Tempest E-T since both are sub 1000 dollars per bow
JJ I’m watching from 🇬🇧 so 0 hunting happening here. Your standard bow review is good. But you’ve asked so; we can’t shoot bows over 60#, so testing at that weight is helpful. The quality of the wall, adjustability, weight distribution… likeliness to sit still… would all be really useful. If you used a standard set of target bars and scope and judged your stability OR real gold standard would literally be 6 arrow grouping at 50m. Points per inch…
Should tell set letoff too. May test accuracy of set letoff. I know some like liw and some high letoff but that will make a difference in speed as well
My question would be, if you are over ATA, and under draw weight and speed, why would you not put twist in to correct ATA and see if that brings the weight and speed closer to spec?
I would test all bows with the MANTIS System to track your aim and shoot it with stabilisers. Because no one shoots a target bow without. Then compare which one holds better
Good video. Question please? I use my local bow shop but I am interested in working on my own bow. Do you suggest any good, inexpensive, at home bow presses for beginners? Thanks for the video.
Can you do a video explaining why a bow is less efficient at its peak draw length? I have a 31” DL. Most new hunting bows max out at that. What makes them less efficient? Looks like my options are limited if that is the case
Any chance you can coment on these bows if the limb deflections are in the correct order for PSE. I think its a feature, but they usually mess the order up. Would be interesting to hear on this brand
I'm curious in you opinion JJ, do you think they are doing their ibo speed rating on 60lb or 70lb DW? Just going out on Limb and assuming it is a possibility...Great video and thanks for sharing men. God Bless you and good luck on your out of state hunts this year.
Suggestion: just put several cameras on stationary mounts to film these reviews. Would eliminate the shaking, out of focus, out of field movement, zoom ins/outs, etc. to make a much cleaner video.
@ColoursOfDan02 What is the fascination with roller slides? They aren't always the bees knees🤔 I'm not saying they don't have benefits but a traditional slide, specifically something like an AAE Slippery Slide, is a significantly simpler system that is pretty easy going on cables and absolutely no moving parts so it is less noisy
@@liamboyle9199 I've always loved roller slides because they make the bow feel incredibly smooth appn drawing and most of all they keep your cables from wearing prematurely. I've tried pretty much every aftermarket slide and none of them come close to the smoothness and cable wear saving as a cartridge bearing roller slide. I have a toolbox literally full of different slides all makes all materials and models and they are all junk .
Isn't the 338 IBO measured with a 70lb limbs? Maybe I am wrong but I always thought that's how they measured IBO speeds at 70lbs... which means that bow at 60lbs and 319 is actually pretty quick for a target bow. I'm guessing it would be within the realm of difference of any other bow in terms of its IBO if it was at 70 lbs. Also if 5 gns per pound is the parameters that are used, then the arrow used should be 300 gns at 60lbs of draw weight. Maybe he did use a 300 but I thought I heard 350 gns. Anyways, I don't know for sure... but I think there is something more to why the speed is so far off. Regardless, I agree it doesnt matter on target bows.. I personally don't care what my target bows shoot for IBO speeds. They are all relatively similar. If i can hit 275fps with my 3d and 50m arrows, Im happy.
Fixed roller guards are inducing more torque than a slide. I also don't understand why they went back to a Teflon slide from the roller-slide they used previously.
@@RikceyThe reason they went to a Teflon slide, is because most of their staff shooters took off the roller and put on the Teflon slide. Of course they don't pay anybody now so they don't have any staff shooters 😂😂😂
I agree with everything you do expect backing the bow down 1.__ odd pounds. No one’s doing that. lol I buy a 80lb bow to shoot the max amount of weight it’ll hold. Jus my coin 🤷🏻♂️
Dude, these ratings are getting ridiculous. Seriously. Giving the bow a 4/5 for the SE2 cam draw cycle is a joke, along with the 3/5 for tunability using the EZ.220 system. You also marked the bow DOWN for weight, ATA, and brace height numbers all coming in BETTER than expected. This review is clownish at best. You're perpetually unhappy and being beyond picky just for the sake of being picky. And FYI, this comment is coming from someone in myself who isn't even a fan of PSE anymore.
I know it’s hard to believe but some of us hunt with target bows. You don’t have to you use a decibel meter but a comment on your perception would be nice.
🤣🤣 Hear Me Out JJ, 350 IBO M2 cam... 80 lbs and 26 in draw. I'm joking big time. I do understand where you're coming from, 350 on a target bow is wild.
If the bow leaves the factory pulling 62 or 72 pounds, why not leave the poundage to the the max? I always bottom out my limbs so why make it less than what it’s possible to achieve for speed?
It’s to compare apples to apples. Brand A might ship from the Factory at 70 lbs, but brand B might ship at 74lbs. Brand B is faster because they have heavier limbs.. not because the bow is actually faster. That’s like trying to compare a 65lb bow to a 70lb bow. 5 lb advertised difference, where my example above is a 4 lb difference but advertised as the same.
That's not specifically designed for 3D (althoug with that speed will be a good choice). The Dominator Duo won this year Vegas; the bow seems more focused in fixed targets at 18 m and 50 m.
My vague understanding is that the IBO (338 ish) is based on 70lbs at 30 ish rather than hanging at 338 all the way thru the draw weight/arrow weight spectrum ? I would strongly suspect that even with the 60 not 70 that the 338 is overly optimistic !!
@@bearinthewoods3 Is a 60# bow, WA doesn't even allow compounds in tournaments over 60# so is just perfect as it is. Also: PSE shouln't mislead with the speed, specially given that 320 fps is really hot for a target bow which is 38" ATA.
Wasn’t much for them to upgrade in my opinion. Matias Fullerton already won Vegas this year with the Duo, set the compound match play 50m record this year with the Duo, etc. basically, it was already a really great bow, but because everyone wants to see a new release every year, they have to do something.
I'm pretty sure they measure ata from the center of the axel to center of axel...which would make it spot on. ALSO....of course it wont reach 338 at 60 pounds...geezus
They do measure center to center but it wouldn't change from the measurement he got. If you measure from the bottom of bottom axle to the bottom of top axle like he did you get the exact same number as center to center.
Doesn't matter. Top to top, middle to middle, bottom to bottom it's all the same measurement. 50lb 60lbs 70lbs it doesn't matter if you're shooting 5gpp. Plenty of tests done to prove that.
Thank you for showcasing target bows. I NEED someone else besides PJ looking at this stuff, cuz, bless him, he's never given anyone a less than glowing review. Thanks for giving the viewers the real reviews we need to make a decision on a bow we may not be able to go down to the local shop and check out ourselves.
keeping a 5 point scale where you give 0.5 points (i.e. 4.5) would allow more options for you to score and still give somewhat of a comparison to last years bows.
JJ, I just got into target archery last year. I'm a nobody, but I do think you do a pretty good job on your bow reviews sir. Thank you for asking the community what we would like to see though, that's generous. Keep up the hard work sir, you're doing a good job.
5:32 i want to take a target bow out to tac and the speed definitely matters getting out on those 130 yard shots
First off, i really enjoy your content.
When you test a 60lb. bow the advertised speed will not be able to be obtained. I think if you added 10lbs to this bow and a drop away- it would have been really close.
Keep the videos coming! I’m excited to see all the new bows as they are released. I really respect your opinions and reviews.
Your testing parameters are good I think, the rest is so personal and subjective. I dig the info.
Hey man, thanks for the fast service on my order I placed a few days ago. It’s already mailed out appreciate it.
So 5/8 of an inch is a decent reflex for a target bow....but 1/2 inch on a Mathews Title is a shootin son of a bitch 😂 Love the content MFJJ, but there's a chance you might be a tad biased!
A tad?
You can adjust the cable guard. There are shims to move it in and out.
They are likely testing it at max draw length, like IBO allows for. 30" draw and 5 grains per pound is the ATA standard. Test it at max draw length and see.
I like the idea you are going to a 10 point system. A few things that a target archer would be interested in would be as followed and can be graded as described. Ease of changing DL-grade does it came with purchase 1-10, rotating module 1-10, need to purchase module 1-10, Range to be able to change DL 1-10. All this goes with the ability to change letoff also so that could be 1-10, When changing DL is it 1/4", 1/2" 1-10, Adjustable Grip system- Does it come with original purchase 1-10, Will the adjustable grip be for degree of angle 1-10, Will the adjustable grip be for micro tuning DL 1-10. Stabilizer mounting hole position- 2 hole rates 5, 3 hole rates 7, 4 hole rates 10, Cable slide- Roller slide fixed position rates 7 Roller slide adjustable rates 10, standard slide fixed position rates 6, standard slide adjustable rates 9. Intergraded rest mounts for rest 1-10. Comes in color: 2 to 4 colors rate 7, 5 to 7 rate 9, 8+ rate 10. Speed is a factor especially for 3D target, so be sure to rate for that as you have been. Last but not over looked is the string. Is it color matched to bow rate 1-10. After that alot of target shooters change them out. Limb pockets able to lock down rate 1-10. Cam shimming ease- Must you remove the axle to move cams (break the bow down) rate 1-10, cam adjust with out tearing bow down rate 1-10.
When measuring axle to axle, you go from outside of one axle to inside of the other. That will get you center to center.
Hey - thanks for the review! Awesome! A quick one - what Through the riser target bow you would recommend for 29DL? 38 or 40 ? and company wise ? 1) PSE - 2) Darton - 3) Hoyt? Cheers . Unfortunately the limbs are not interchangeable for mode poundage , Otherwise its will be great ..
How does it not get a 5 for features as it can be setup for left and right hand people? It's a target bow not a hunting bow lol. Set that bow up with M2 cams and shoot it for a few weeks and you will give it all 5s after you see how accurate and good it feels. It does not shoot the speeds advertised I agree but it is also the fastest target bow I've had/shot. Faster speed equals less poundage needed to keep FPS at topside of allowable class speed. But I do not understand why they didn't use cable rollers this year
I was thinking the same thing. Not to many bows do that. The resale value is better as well because of it as well.
Ambidextrous isn't necessarily a positive for the consumer. A lot of people prefer the grip to match for the right or left handed shooter. It may be a positive for pse and the shop for obvious reasons.
@@bmook019 Also: you need to swap the pulleys or the cables to change it from right handed to left handed; it comes from factory as you ordered it, but if you have to swap hand it requires a bow press and a bit of work to change it.
@@Buran01 have to flip cams and limbs and cable guard to other side to switch right to left handed. I done it in 5 minutes
@@bmook019 its a shoot through riser, so its angled on each side (like a Y) so it feels the exact same rather you shoot it right or left handed.
Can't think of anything for testing parameters, especially when it comes to target bows. What I would love to see is a side by side review of two bows such as the PSE Lazer and the Darton Tempest E-T since both are sub 1000 dollars per bow
Okay you don't like PSE 😂 we get it.
I thought that the speed listing was based off 70lbs for all bows
JJ I’m watching from 🇬🇧 so 0 hunting happening here. Your standard bow review is good. But you’ve asked so; we can’t shoot bows over 60#, so testing at that weight is helpful. The quality of the wall, adjustability, weight distribution… likeliness to sit still… would all be really useful. If you used a standard set of target bars and scope and judged your stability OR real gold standard would literally be 6 arrow grouping at 50m. Points per inch…
Should tell set letoff too. May test accuracy of set letoff. I know some like liw and some high letoff but that will make a difference in speed as well
I really hope you do reviews on Hoyts new target bows this year. Not one detailed review on RUclips for the Stratos 36 and 40.
For target I would like to see a graph of the draw weight per inch of draw to visualize the draw curve
My question would be, if you are over ATA, and under draw weight and speed, why would you not put twist in to correct ATA and see if that brings the weight and speed closer to spec?
I would test all bows with the MANTIS System to track your aim and shoot it with stabilisers. Because no one shoots a target bow without. Then compare which one holds better
Speed is important when you're competing in the ASA. It needs to be up around 295 with your chosen arrow.... just a thought
would you do this one on the new ranking system please, like to see how it stacks up
Elite has the Exalt 35, which is a hybrid bow, also the Verdict, which is specifically a target bow.
Yep, the Exalted 35 is the equivalent to the PSE Shootdown 36, but with more adjustability.
You should do a video on accessories for bows all of them. Alot of new products come out.
Good video. Question please? I use my local bow shop but I am interested in working on my own bow. Do you suggest any good, inexpensive, at home bow presses for beginners? Thanks for the video.
Hey Josh when will that draw board you made be available for purchase?
Can you do a video explaining why a bow is less efficient at its peak draw length? I have a 31” DL. Most new hunting bows max out at that. What makes them less efficient? Looks like my options are limited if that is the case
Any chance you can coment on these bows if the limb deflections are in the correct order for PSE. I think its a feature, but they usually mess the order up. Would be interesting to hear on this brand
Maybe it would be closer to published speed with the m2 cam
Could you please measure the width of riser's parallel center? Thank you a lot =)
Would it be possible for you to test a bow tech carbon rose
Would there speed be labeled at 32 inches for ibo or 30?
Not that I care much but wonder if 2inches gives it the 19fps
It's 30 inches but at 70 pounds. He is measuring it at 60
@bearhug72 60 vs 70 doesn't matter using 300g instead of 350 grains. Plenty of people have shown this in tests.
I'm curious in you opinion JJ, do you think they are doing their ibo speed rating on 60lb or 70lb DW? Just going out on Limb and assuming it is a possibility...Great video and thanks for sharing men. God Bless you and good luck on your out of state hunts this year.
Everyone does it at 70 lbs/30 inches/350 grain arrow
They generally do 70 but that's why he shot a 300grn arrow instead of a 350grn. So it shouldn't matter
Maybe a 5 arrow group out of a hooter shooter or something for target bows…?
Suggestion: just put several cameras on stationary mounts to film these reviews. Would eliminate the shaking, out of focus, out of field movement, zoom ins/outs, etc. to make a much cleaner video.
What draw board is that? Thanks.
319 for a target bow is SMOKING FAST 👍 . Looks like a great bow except for no roller slide but that's a easy fix
Yeah that's a crazy speed for the specs and an easy draw. No idea why they don't have a better roller guard at the price point.
@ColoursOfDan02 What is the fascination with roller slides? They aren't always the bees knees🤔
I'm not saying they don't have benefits but a traditional slide, specifically something like an AAE Slippery Slide, is a significantly simpler system that is pretty easy going on cables and absolutely no moving parts so it is less noisy
@@liamboyle9199 I've always loved roller slides because they make the bow feel incredibly smooth appn drawing and most of all they keep your cables from wearing prematurely. I've tried pretty much every aftermarket slide and none of them come close to the smoothness and cable wear saving as a cartridge bearing roller slide. I have a toolbox literally full of different slides all makes all materials and models and they are all junk .
Any eta on your draw board production?
It's 2025 bow. You should go to the 10 scale with it.
Darton makes a shoot thru riser.
Isn't the 338 IBO measured with a 70lb limbs? Maybe I am wrong but I always thought that's how they measured IBO speeds at 70lbs... which means that bow at 60lbs and 319 is actually pretty quick for a target bow. I'm guessing it would be within the realm of difference of any other bow in terms of its IBO if it was at 70 lbs.
Also if 5 gns per pound is the parameters that are used, then the arrow used should be 300 gns at 60lbs of draw weight. Maybe he did use a 300 but I thought I heard 350 gns. Anyways, I don't know for sure... but I think there is something more to why the speed is so far off. Regardless, I agree it doesnt matter on target bows.. I personally don't care what my target bows shoot for IBO speeds. They are all relatively similar. If i can hit 275fps with my 3d and 50m arrows, Im happy.
Is it typical the target bows dont have rollers for the cables? Or is this not a flagship target bow and thats why?
Fixed roller guards are inducing more torque than a slide. I also don't understand why they went back to a Teflon slide from the roller-slide they used previously.
@@RikceyThe reason they went to a Teflon slide, is because most of their staff shooters took off the roller and put on the Teflon slide. Of course they don't pay anybody now so they don't have any staff shooters 😂😂😂
Question did u wait 6 months for it ?
The only true metric is groups and score on a target bow. I look for a thin and square grip, a dependable platform and usually a solid wall.
I agree with everything you do expect backing the bow down 1.__ odd pounds. No one’s doing that. lol I buy a 80lb bow to shoot the max amount of weight it’ll hold. Jus my coin 🤷🏻♂️
Shouldn’t it be a 300gr arrow not 350gr?
It was a 300 grain arrow....
Dude, these ratings are getting ridiculous. Seriously. Giving the bow a 4/5 for the SE2 cam draw cycle is a joke, along with the 3/5 for tunability using the EZ.220 system. You also marked the bow DOWN for weight, ATA, and brace height numbers all coming in BETTER than expected. This review is clownish at best. You're perpetually unhappy and being beyond picky just for the sake of being picky. And FYI, this comment is coming from someone in myself who isn't even a fan of PSE anymore.
I know it’s hard to believe but some of us hunt with target bows. You don’t have to you use a decibel meter but a comment on your perception would be nice.
pse makes a bow that is kind of a mix between the two, i think its the shootdown
🤣🤣 Hear Me Out JJ, 350 IBO M2 cam... 80 lbs and 26 in draw. I'm joking big time. I do understand where you're coming from, 350 on a target bow is wild.
By installing the Cable Rod without adjustment, PSE degraded the quality of the bow, I am no longer interested. They are walking backwards
If the bow leaves the factory pulling 62 or 72 pounds, why not leave the poundage to the the max? I always bottom out my limbs so why make it less than what it’s possible to achieve for speed?
It’s to compare apples to apples. Brand A might ship from the Factory at 70 lbs, but brand B might ship at 74lbs. Brand B is faster because they have heavier limbs.. not because the bow is actually faster. That’s like trying to compare a 65lb bow to a 70lb bow. 5 lb advertised difference, where my example above is a 4 lb difference but advertised as the same.
Can’t wait to hear how great Mathews bows are this year and how mediocre everyone else is.
I was considering a Title when all the things with the limbs "blow out"...
'speed rarely matters in target archery' Have you ever shot unknown field or 3D? Speed is paramount in that kind of target archery.
That's not specifically designed for 3D (althoug with that speed will be a good choice). The Dominator Duo won this year Vegas; the bow seems more focused in fixed targets at 18 m and 50 m.
@@Buran01 3d is just target with extra steps.
My vague understanding is that the IBO (338 ish) is based on 70lbs at 30 ish rather than hanging at 338 all the way thru the draw weight/arrow weight spectrum ? I would strongly suspect that even with the 60 not 70 that the 338 is overly optimistic !!
Flipping a bow from R to Left.... Novel and unique should be close to 5
Requires changes. Is not just choosing the side of the sight.
Lelia Meadow
Alek Street
I thought the speeds were based on 80# and 350 gr arrow ?
IBO is 70 lbs @ 30 inches with a 350 grain arrow
@@bearinthewoods3 your referring to ata test just looked it up ibo is 80 at 400 gr arrows
@@bearinthewoods3 Is a 60# bow, WA doesn't even allow compounds in tournaments over 60# so is just perfect as it is. Also: PSE shouln't mislead with the speed, specially given that 320 fps is really hot for a target bow which is 38" ATA.
@@Buran01yeah I have no idea why pse think they need to say that fps. For the specs and ease of the draw 320 is crazy fast.
I feel like they all over hype the speed just so people can justify the price tag for minimal changes year to year
Maybe they are shooting downhill when they get those speeds!? 🤣
Perez Susan Harris Margaret Hernandez Sandra
Underwhelming release
Wasn’t much for them to upgrade in my opinion. Matias Fullerton already won Vegas this year with the Duo, set the compound match play 50m record this year with the Duo, etc. basically, it was already a really great bow, but because everyone wants to see a new release every year, they have to do something.
Nitzsche Fords
All I shoot is PSE.
You aren't a target archer, you're a hunter. Leave the target reviews to someone more qualified.
I'm pretty sure they measure ata from the center of the axel to center of axel...which would make it spot on.
ALSO....of course it wont reach 338 at 60 pounds...geezus
They do measure center to center but it wouldn't change from the measurement he got. If you measure from the bottom of bottom axle to the bottom of top axle like he did you get the exact same number as center to center.
Doesn't matter. Top to top, middle to middle, bottom to bottom it's all the same measurement.
50lb 60lbs 70lbs it doesn't matter if you're shooting 5gpp. Plenty of tests done to prove that.