Proxy Promise Dropbox Download Link (you don't need an account or to request access - just click "continue with download only"): bit.ly/tcq_proxy-promise
I fully support this Idea, HOWEVER you should put the original names on there (like they did previously with universes within) so that its more obvious what the players are doing.
Thanks for the designs! If I might make a suggestion, if a player were to have these printed by a professional service on actual cardstock, they will ask for a design with a "bleed margin" so they can print the card and have a room for error when cutting it with their machines. It's usually about 1/8 inch or 3.2mm. Could you add designs with this margin included? That would be awesome. Thanks!
Well i think it actually depends. If it is literally just a photocopy of an existing card, then it in no way should be sold or traded, but if someone has made new nice art and had it printed on real card stock, i think it's different. If the proxy is cool enough i would be totally fine with trading for it if they are reasonable about what we swap.
@@Cocytus127 It's not. Counterfeit's literal dictionary definition is "Made in EXACT IMITATION of something valuable or important with the intention to DECEIVE or DEFRAUD." A proxy is a representative of a subject given authority to act in their behalf. A proxy does not need to look like the subject, and is not invoked with the intent to deceive.
4:45 “Wizards of the Coast has no desire to police playtest cards made for personal, non-commercial use, even if that usage takes place in a store.” Sums it nicely.
Also, minor but relevant point is that 'Playtest' cards are namesaked for, as it says; Testing out a card for your deck if it's worth running it or not before getting the real deal. The moment you run cards like these perpetually/indefinitely without actually acquisitioning the real card, 'playtest' starts to lose its meaning.
You left out the part that defined a playtest card as a basic with a name written in marker. "If the card looks real even at the most cursory of glance, it is not a proxy but a counterfeit"
Ooofff, this feels like WoTC is saying what the game devs said, "If you dont like it, dont buy it." Along the lines of, "Don't buy it unless your playing competitively."
Im pretty sure the worry was related to Wizards-held events on cedh specifically. a no-proxy rule could be implemented for individual events, essentially ruining cedh as a format.
Sure that can. If they say "you can use proxies at local tournaments" and your LGS doesn't enforce it, they can get in legal trouble. Locals still have to follow a set of guidelines when hosting an MTG tournament and those guidelines are set by WOTC. And what WOTC is saying here is that they have no interest in making any sort of rule that says that. They are trying to enforce this at DCI sanctioned events only, which doesn't include locals. But nothing is stopping them from adding locals to that list and making anyone who holds a MTG tournament abide by it. And if you don't think the company that sends Pinkerton's out for leeks is gonna find out about paid tournaments being played at stores without their approval, you don't know WOTC 😂
@@imnotacat5299 your entire argument is idiotic and based on a false understanding. They say they are not policing proxies for “personal use.” Sure in paid tournaments you’re right, they do police it and will continue to. But they can never and will never be able to stop individuals from using proxies. Saying they don’t intend to police it is empty because they could never do it even if they wanted to. The Pinkertons don’t have enough employees for a nation wide proxy hunt. No one is paying you to suck wizards off, so please stop
Lol what? They absolutely can revoke any establishment from being sanctioned and receiving product. I know you think you had a majority opinion, but not the whole player base supports peasantry *cough* proxies
@ your understanding of how wide spread the usage is of proxies is clearly not understood. The shake up and amount of stores that would likely be cut off would hurt wizards bottom line and we know they care deeply about that. Your “peasantry” statement has no solid ground to stand on, you’re projecting and highly delusional if you think most of the player base shares your ignorant narrow view. Also why the fuck are you watching a budget channel anyway if you make so much money?
what I love about this game is that the lower WotC gets, the wholesomer the community gets through people and channel like yours, reminding me that We Make The Game. Keep up the good work
How to fix magic: 1 remove the reserve list 2: remove DCI sanction rules for paper magic. Considering how many bad actors prey on the nature of card scarcity allowing Proxies would actually revitalize 60 card formats
At a quick glance, the art seems to be machine generated, which if it is should definitely be noted. Even if it isn't though, you're absolutely correct, so hopefully that becomes known.
I was at a high end cEDH event a few weeks ago that allowed proxies. I wanted to join but didn't have the cards I needed. If I knew they allowed proxies I would have joined. I asked a judge why they didn't mention that on any promotional post. The judge told me they didn't mention it cause "Wizards frowns on proxies for events". Besides, you think they still feel the same from an EIGHT year old article? They have gone against tons of things they've said in less time. You even mention one in this video.
The point is that if Wizards wont be clear about their messaging, we are free to justify our actions however we so choose, and this the latest article discussing the topic so we can take it at face value.
They don't have the balls to change their stated policy about proxies in light of current events. The only way they make a change is if some pencil pusher gets a huge stick up his azz about it and forces a change. Which I suppose isn't too out of the realm of possibilities.
If the event uses the WPN play app, you can't use proxies. This article was written before that app existed so it's not exactly clarified there. WPN play app incentivizes stores to make casual commander games into "official" events.
Wizards frowns on proxies for sanctioned events, if people arent advertising proxy friendly whilst not being sanctioned they are either wanting to ensure their friends have an advantage, they don't want people which have proxird an entire deck and don't know the game or just don't want the popularity of a larger tournament which seems weird. Wizards has been consistent on their proxy stance people which think otherwise are incorrect.
From Germany: Commandfest in Germany near Frankfurt. They stated that Proxys are not allowed there. Every year. The Worst, even Gold-Border Cards like WCD and IE are not allowed.
@@emoviking3385no proxying is also making or buying fake versions of existing cards even if you copy the artwork. If it’s a fake version of a card then it’s a proxy.
@@emoviking3385 okay but if proxying is as you say "getting a basic mountain and writing mana crypt on it" then the cards that Commander's Quarters is providing and showing in the video are counterfeits as described by your definition so it would be no different than what the original commenter was doing.
@@emoviking3385 that isnt true. you can make quality proxies that arent counterfeit. Different backs, and/or copies printed on a page that can be slipped in front of a land or bulk card is legal.
Well. I’m glad we’re where we’re at right now ✌️ proxies are healthy. Fight my skill not my wallet. Only important rule: match the power level. Don’t be that PL9 sitting at a PL6…
I agree with you. My collection is over 20k cards and I play with friends who don't have much more than the decks they play with. Using proxies levels the playing field. We restrict certain cards like power nine on agreement. House rules, basically. When I'm building decks I will typically proxy most of the cards because I can print them for $1-$2 per sheet, even printing an entire commander deck for less than $20. It helps when I own the cards (most of them), but don't want to search my whole collection to put them together. I spend a lot of money on Magic, and that hasn't changed. The fact that I proxy only results in me continuing to purchase card singles and sealed product. I spend too much, actually, and by the time the cards arrive I have moved on from the idea that spurred the purchase and goes unused.
I use proxies but they all have a false back and lack the holographic logo. And its mostly for cards that I own. Like I don't think I should have to have two Misty Rainforest if I want to play both a Sultai and Simic deck with fetch lands. I keep the originals at home in a binder and proxies go in the deck. This also insulates me from loss of the deck or theft of the deck.
I agree. I own multiple revised dual lands that are in great condition and I wouldn't dream (nightmare?) of shuffling them in a deck, so I proxy them. I also have over 20k cards in my collection, which makes deck building a nightmare when searching for cards I know that I have. I would rather spend a couple dollars at the print shop and slipping paper in front of lands than spending hours searching through my collection. Meanwhile, I still add to my collection through buying singles and sealed product on TCG Player and EBAY. I love buying boxes of boosters and drafting with my boys who also play Magic. The love it because we draft on my dime and they keep the cards they draft. They are both adults, and i appreciate the extra visits I get.
@@ejmercado75hell no thats so dumb it makes no sense I shouldn't need to own the card if I'm just gonna proxy it.. This is why I tell people just buy counterfeits and double sleeve them.. Nobody is ever going to know the difference.
So to add additional confusion here, when you play in most LGS around me at least, they require commander pods to register in the app so that they get credit for the play within the WPN player count systems. The problem is that by doing that, it makes it a sanctioned game, and therefor the store is supposed to only allow legitimate Magic cards. So by making the app registration a requirement, they are saying that they have to police the use of proxies within the store pods or risk disciplinary actions from WPN. It's unlikely they get reported but it just takes one salty person and an investigation starts. That said, screw that and I play with proxies with my friends. I wouldn't bring a very expensive deck to a convention either, so I plan to move to a fully proxied deck for non-competitive convention play.
I'm that salty person. Own a copy of it before you proxy. I only acknowledge proxies as place holders for valuable game pieces. If its a sanctioned event at the LGS, I make sure the store makes it clear about decks utilizing proxies as ILLEGAL. Right? Otherwise fuck it! Screw the ban list too.
Just buy counterfeits and double sleeve nobody is gonna call u out they won't even know lol.. Just play and have fun this is a card game grown adults take it way to serious.
This wouldn't be a problem if we didn't have greasy scalpers, and wotc actually printed to demand. They wouldn't have a problem if they actually cared about the player's. Nobody wants to pay the price of a house for something on the reserve list, and nobody should have to pay 300$ for a secret lair. I hope wotc thinks of player's who actually play before the few people who own a majority of the reserve list cards. I think they should reprint the dual lands, moxen, and ancestral recall. We've had every other 1 mana card of the color pie printed numerous times. The player's and new collector's are the people making wotc rich.
EXACTLY!!! I have been saying this FOR YEARS!! WoTC have all the power to stop counterfeits and to bring prices down on the secondary market and they choose not to. So I say counterfeit away people I just wanna play magic competitively without having to drop insane amounts of money.
Thanks a lot for your community support. It’s great to have a passionate and creative person in our corner. Now all we need is someone to come up with their own version of spelltable!
How could it possibly matter? If I use proxies at a non-sanctioned event and wizards decides that they don't want me to do it, what are they going to do about it?
Recently saw something about a legal card that was only ever printed in FOIL (nexus of fate) and Wizards would force people to play with proxies in place of those cards because of the Pringle-ling of the cards made it clearly apparent where each one was in that persons deck. They have footage of this at tournaments. Wizards has been fine with proxies in certain cases for years, why not just let people have it. I don't see the value of legit cards going down because of that
And people said I was overreacting when I was unhappy with the mechanically unique Walking Dead SL. I warned it was just the beginning, and that one day we wouldn't recognize Magic.
I believe the brackets idea for Commander is to standardised Commander into tournaments. This would allow Hasbro-WOTC to try to prevent proxying or at least make it a taboo.
Good to know. My Marvel proxies were cheaper, and didn't require me to sit in a pointless line for 6 hours. If the company doesn't provide, the market has zero problem filling the gaps. Scalpers can eat the cards for all I care.
Everyone seems to be ignoring the statement that playtest cards aren't supposed to have official art and should be identifiable as non-official cards even on a cursory glance. Doesn't that mean that printing actual cards shouldn't be allowed? Since they have the official art and, depeding on the quality of print, sometimes aren't easily identifiable?
From your video said, proxies are still banned in MTG events like commander fest (thank god they finally took off Jeweled Lotus off the website’s Home Screen) but you can play with proxies at home games and LGS that isn’t doing a commander event and you can use a proxy in standard (universes are going to be all formats next year) if there is no judge.
If you’re playing an FNM, you still can’t proxy even if there isn’t a judge. If the store you’re playing at is a WPN store, and has you use the Companion app to sign up for an event, you cannot proxy.
Was starting to think this was just a modern rehash of the old proxy policy most players should have come across over the years. But, the addition of the dropbox link for cool proxies made this a worthwhile watch.
Does this technically mean we can use proxies in a 60 card format event at our LGS if it’s not DCI sanctioned? I assume it’s up to the store at that point if they would allow it?
They are fine proxies for non-DCI sanctioned tournaments. That's not the same as being "100%" fine with them. Just to keep things clear. Would hate for someone to try and participate in a DCI tournament after hearing this video and getting the wrong idea. 👍🏼
This. No matter what this guy says, you can not play in a sanctioned event at a wpn store with anything but real mtg cards. If you sign in with your WotC account you cannot use proxies. If you’re just playing with friends casually in the store and receiving no prizes or promos, then proxies are fine
Having taught a magic club at a middle school, letting people proxy when they can't afford the real cards is how you eventually get people who spend THOUSANDS of dollars on magic products.
That's convenient. 😂 This is just a cop out way for them to stick with their greedy business plans while shoving the responsibility onto players and 3rd parties. This just allows them to satiate their consumers and earn some brownie points while not having to change anything about their business models.
Just going to say, out the LGS's around here, several people tried to pull this stuff. A sudden $1-2k deck made entirely of proxies. Perhaps if your LGS allows it, but it was immediately banned at most stores in the area. It's alright at lower lvls or if your pod table 0's it, but having win cons in your deck you don't actually own, and going off on turn 2 with proxies ain't happening lmao.
Great job Mitch, if you get time you could also do the Jurassic Park tie in to LCI and the Transformers tie in to BRO. Less of an issue than the secret lairs, as at least they were available in boosters, but would still be nice to have proper Magic themed versions of them, rather than having real-world clothes, motorcycles and computers in the art in the case of REX set. BOT set would be nice to have them in the form of KLD, NEO or BRO mechs, rather than the 80's cartoon look.
These are awesome! I love it! While i find some of the secret lairs cool, I would much prefer playing with cards that fit the Magic universe(s). Thanks a lot. I hope there are more to come.
The good thing about analog games is that you can play them however you want, with whomever you want. So long as your playgroup agrees, WotC can't do shit about what house rules, mods and proxies you're playing with. If they're gonna keep hurting the LGS for people wanting to play cards they can't keep in stock and WotC isn't providing them, maybe the LGS should invest in Bushiroad, Bandai and TPC instead.
Very fun to see proxies being repped like this! Especially, to your point, with recent printing shenanigans WOTC has pulled. I put together a Dune deck recently with fully recreated MTG cards. All real mechanically but entirely restyled as Dune characters! Sure I can't take it to a 'sanctioned commander' event. But when was the last time I played at a sanctioned event...?
Little misleading it doesnt mean wizards is ok with it just that they arent going to police it as of 2016 (obviously things can change see everything relared to UB). That however doesnt prohibt your LGS from limiting or not allowing proxies so my only 10 cents would be if your LGS has rules about proxies don't be shitty to them based on this.
This is an awesome concept! The only downside is that EDHrec won't recognize these card names. Not sure who you got to do all of this art but its fantastic as well.
It's funny how it's illegal to pirate games and movies and virtually anything else, but suddenly, there's this pervasive moral ambiguity when it comes to stealing with the Magic IP. Rather than just being okay with building up a collection over time or -gasp- just not having access to something immediately, there is actually this sense of moral righteousness that comes from people who buy fake cards using pirated art from proxy websites when they encounter players who have any issue with the fact that they use "proxies". I can understand if someone already owns the cards, because then they could conceivably take the time to switch cards between decks. But there is a significant population of players who dont buy any cards and just buy essentially counterfeit cards from so-called proxy websites. And the weirdest thing is, they've given me shit for buying real cards from legitimate online vendors, saying "support your local game store." As if their mere presence and ability to log in to an app for a game they dont even support is somehow a justification for piracy. And by the way, those same people usually magically forget to pay for their share of food/drink when it's ordered for the group. Here's a crazy idea: how about everyone buys the cards they want and there would be no need to engage in a moral argument. If you can't afford something...you dont get to have it! Welcome to life.
Once upon a time, as a player, you as a human had to go out and find the cards, pay the price and it was when cards were rare. It was a Good time, before the corporations, when we players actually had to be creative and sculpt, craft, gather and create our decks. Before the empire..
@@patrickgallogly8092it's not infinite. There is a limit of how much they can print and that limit is the amount of resources in the world. But the print on demand is less profitable for scalpers to scalp.
Back during the era of zendikar rising through March of the machine, every set had double-faced cards. To this end, some boosters included blanks that you could use to represent them in a deck. What I did was pick up 60 of them for $15. Now I can have any card I want from a jeweled lotus to an anointed procession for 15 cents, and without any fucking SpongeBob on them.
i legit sat in que for 8 hours just to be shown they were sold out i got in que at 9am the day of the drop and didnt get to buy anything till 5pm and it was all gone.
Finally someone shows the official wotc announcement about proxies policy. Everybody talks about them but completely IGNORE this statement. They act like this because wotc allows proxies and people just don't want to see them at the table. Well, that's wrong and, if you ask my opinion about, it's also classism. You can proxy whatever you want if you follow the rules and NOBODY can't nitpicking you for that because is legit to play them. Mitch's one of the few honest players. The major yt channels (you know what I'm talking about) are trying to ostracize proxy players, even if they run a few of them. These people are paid by wotc for push the sealed products and also play an important role on secondary market. Mitch just doesn't care and i really appreciate how he openly and clearly talk about the proxy controversies. Bye haters.
Yeah so, um... They sold us an official product of proxy cards in that 30th anniversary product. Those cards pass as real cards. Sure, flip them over and it's obvious they are not normal cards. Fine. But from the front, they look real and normal. I know people with high quality fakes, but the back of the card has "Fake" written on it. The primary issue is that fakes might get distributed right? Well, if you write fake on it, no one will want it. Problem solved.
I don't know if we ever talk about the technical side of printing cards. Using Windows, I use the Print Wizard. If the images are jpgs or compatible, I select 9 at time, right-click and select Print. In the wizard, I select wallet-sized and uncheck the "Fit picture to frame" box. This results in a sheet that you can cut out and fits nicely into sleeves. Is this what everyone else does? Does anyone else need to see this? Does anyone have a better method?
As a yugioh player it's crazy how long it's taken for the mtg community it catch up. Like duh, you can't use "play test" cards aka proxys in a tournament.
I completely forgot about the Storm drop. I was awake that day too. I am livid. Extremely livid. I have a seething hate for the company and the secondary market right now. I am going to find the best proxy card creator I can find.
I take issue with proxy cards when folks enter their proxied deck into the LGS FNM, pay 2.50 for the pod and walk off with the win and Pack. That's HORSE SHIT! I take pride and OWN all my legit game pieces. I worked too hard for my collection and game pieces to see some douche print an expensive piece and THINKS IT IS OK! I'll always object to proxies when my money is being spent to play at my LGS and packs are on the line. If you own a single copy of a card and want to proxy that...that's ok at least you OWN IT.
Lmao. This is an 8-year-old announcement that I have referenced dozens of times, even *before* the EDH community started becoming more aligned with proxy use.
So, im just happily willing to look dumb online, but do these cards acknowledge, in some way, that they are "effectively" functionally the same card as they are proxies of? I'll always hate that EDH is a singleton format, but it is, and it would be odd if the person who actually brought/acquired a copy of Storm, for example, could have that helm the deck, and then play the copy with a different name, in the 99, basically having two cards to do things with? I like some of the other "proxy cards" that say they are effectively what they copy; that name posted under this one's, so singleton can still apply, but do these do so in a way your average player would recognize? Is this a thing only for Legendary Creatures, who you might want at the head of a deck, or would you do this for other card ryoes, too?
There would have to be a pre existing card that already does the same thing for instance you have Elvish Mystic and Llanowar Elves that are basically the same thing in all but name so those you could have two of the same because there’s another thing out there that does it already but in the case of say Storm there’s no other card that does that so it’s still storm still the same creature because it can’t BE any other creature as a result you can’t bring storm and then proxy a second one and slap a new name cause they’d technically be the exact same card
If it wasn't a sanctioned tournament then why is wizards even speaking on this? What someone does with their private business is none of wizards business.
And now elitist pricks can suck it....officially. Never understood the hate on Proxies. Except for tournaments as there is something to actually compete for. But jumping in someone's shit because they don't want to pay money for a bunch of cards they may not even like.
I have 2 great condition Revised Volcanic Islands (among other valuable cards), and will proxy them when including in a deck so they keep their great condition and value. That said, if I want a card that is valuable in my deck that I don't currently own....I won't let that stop me from enjoying the card as a proxy.
I'm personally making an Arbaaz Mir from Assassin's Creed into Moon Knight, and he basically just has several different legends in the deck as other personalities of Marc Spector, and he just throws objects at his enemies
Proxy Promise Dropbox Download Link (you don't need an account or to request access - just click "continue with download only"):
bit.ly/tcq_proxy-promise
I fully support this Idea, HOWEVER you should put the original names on there (like they did previously with universes within) so that its more obvious what the players are doing.
@@blaiscallies4986 they are on the bottom edge of the cards
I hope there will be more in the future. I love these, however.
Thanks for the designs! If I might make a suggestion, if a player were to have these printed by a professional service on actual cardstock, they will ask for a design with a "bleed margin" so they can print the card and have a room for error when cutting it with their machines. It's usually about 1/8 inch or 3.2mm. Could you add designs with this margin included? That would be awesome. Thanks!
I love the art for these. Is there a chance we could get a full art version of these cards?
I have no issue with counterfeits. Just don’t try to trade them like they’re real.
Well i think it actually depends. If it is literally just a photocopy of an existing card, then it in no way should be sold or traded, but if someone has made new nice art and had it printed on real card stock, i think it's different. If the proxy is cool enough i would be totally fine with trading for it if they are reasonable about what we swap.
@@gravysamich I meant more like trying to pass the proxy or counterfeit off as the real thing to trick somebody.
counterfeits are meant to be passed off as the real thing where proxies aren't that.
@@TheAlmostOtaku What an utterly meaningless comment, but sure.
@@Cocytus127 It's not. Counterfeit's literal dictionary definition is "Made in EXACT IMITATION of something valuable or important with the intention to DECEIVE or DEFRAUD."
A proxy is a representative of a subject given authority to act in their behalf.
A proxy does not need to look like the subject, and is not invoked with the intent to deceive.
4:45 “Wizards of the Coast has no desire to police playtest cards made for personal, non-commercial use, even if that usage takes place in a store.”
Sums it nicely.
Thanks, appreciate the summary!
Except the point is that the moment you involve it into event play, it's no longer personal or non-commercial.
Also, minor but relevant point is that 'Playtest' cards are namesaked for, as it says; Testing out a card for your deck if it's worth running it or not before getting the real deal. The moment you run cards like these perpetually/indefinitely without actually acquisitioning the real card, 'playtest' starts to lose its meaning.
You left out the part that defined a playtest card as a basic with a name written in marker. "If the card looks real even at the most cursory of glance, it is not a proxy but a counterfeit"
Ooofff, this feels like WoTC is saying what the game devs said, "If you dont like it, dont buy it." Along the lines of, "Don't buy it unless your playing competitively."
Current magic cards don't look like actual magic cards at cursory glance.
"We have no intention of policing proxies, even in stores" lol thats because they can't not because they don't want to.
Im pretty sure the worry was related to Wizards-held events on cedh specifically. a no-proxy rule could be implemented for individual events, essentially ruining cedh as a format.
Sure that can. If they say "you can use proxies at local tournaments" and your LGS doesn't enforce it, they can get in legal trouble.
Locals still have to follow a set of guidelines when hosting an MTG tournament and those guidelines are set by WOTC.
And what WOTC is saying here is that they have no interest in making any sort of rule that says that. They are trying to enforce this at DCI sanctioned events only, which doesn't include locals. But nothing is stopping them from adding locals to that list and making anyone who holds a MTG tournament abide by it.
And if you don't think the company that sends Pinkerton's out for leeks is gonna find out about paid tournaments being played at stores without their approval, you don't know WOTC 😂
@@imnotacat5299 your entire argument is idiotic and based on a false understanding. They say they are not policing proxies for “personal use.” Sure in paid tournaments you’re right, they do police it and will continue to. But they can never and will never be able to stop individuals from using proxies. Saying they don’t intend to police it is empty because they could never do it even if they wanted to. The Pinkertons don’t have enough employees for a nation wide proxy hunt. No one is paying you to suck wizards off, so please stop
Lol what? They absolutely can revoke any establishment from being sanctioned and receiving product. I know you think you had a majority opinion, but not the whole player base supports peasantry *cough* proxies
@ your understanding of how wide spread the usage is of proxies is clearly not understood. The shake up and amount of stores that would likely be cut off would hurt wizards bottom line and we know they care deeply about that. Your “peasantry” statement has no solid ground to stand on, you’re projecting and highly delusional if you think most of the player base shares your ignorant narrow view. Also why the fuck are you watching a budget channel anyway if you make so much money?
I’m actually excited about Wizards breaking promises…. Now they have every excuse to abolish the reserve list!
Crypto bros would LOSE their minds.
It's about time
In all honesty. We have the power 9 in the historic and timeless format on arena. And it’s meta(ish).
Yeah, but only for secret lairs sold at market price! And limited supply!
The reserved list is fine as it is.
what I love about this game is that the lower WotC gets, the wholesomer the community gets through people and channel like yours, reminding me that We Make The Game. Keep up the good work
Thank you for standing up for players, in an age where uncertainty is certain you have always stood your ground admirably.
Agreed!!! Thanks so much for having integrity!
How to fix magic: 1 remove the reserve list 2: remove DCI sanction rules for paper magic. Considering how many bad actors prey on the nature of card scarcity allowing Proxies would actually revitalize 60 card formats
I agree 100%
Fun idea, and am all for proxies. One concern, however, where was the art used for these sourced from? Artists should be at least credited.
At a quick glance, the art seems to be machine generated, which if it is should definitely be noted. Even if it isn't though, you're absolutely correct, so hopefully that becomes known.
Came to type this and saw someone else had the same concern
take the template, set up a crowdfunding to pay your favorite artist(s) to make new art, let's go
Wizards, we finally reprinted Rick. In universe printing is $50+. Also Wizards, we take our brand seriously. No proxies. Now buy Sponge Bob cards.
The next card to be called Rick will have “I turned myself into a pickle” for flavor text.
@ “Pickle Rick!”
Had a fuckin stroke reading this
@@rasmus5926 I already had a headache, now it's worse.
Friendly reminder to pay your rent, proxy your cards, and enjoy MTG. You deserve that Doubling Season after working so hard
I was at a high end cEDH event a few weeks ago that allowed proxies. I wanted to join but didn't have the cards I needed. If I knew they allowed proxies I would have joined. I asked a judge why they didn't mention that on any promotional post. The judge told me they didn't mention it cause "Wizards frowns on proxies for events".
Besides, you think they still feel the same from an EIGHT year old article? They have gone against tons of things they've said in less time. You even mention one in this video.
The point is that if Wizards wont be clear about their messaging, we are free to justify our actions however we so choose, and this the latest article discussing the topic so we can take it at face value.
They don't have the balls to change their stated policy about proxies in light of current events.
The only way they make a change is if some pencil pusher gets a huge stick up his azz about it and forces a change.
Which I suppose isn't too out of the realm of possibilities.
If the event uses the WPN play app, you can't use proxies. This article was written before that app existed so it's not exactly clarified there. WPN play app incentivizes stores to make casual commander games into "official" events.
they want you to spend more money at thier store too.
Wizards frowns on proxies for sanctioned events, if people arent advertising proxy friendly whilst not being sanctioned they are either wanting to ensure their friends have an advantage, they don't want people which have proxird an entire deck and don't know the game or just don't want the popularity of a larger tournament which seems weird. Wizards has been consistent on their proxy stance people which think otherwise are incorrect.
I've been getting proxies for any cards $10 and up for like a year now and I'm going to keep doing it.
My HP Deskjet approves this message. After an year of internship, now it has been officially welcomed to the game, no more an outlaw.
Mitch continuing to be a great asset to the community, thank you.
Major glazier
From Germany: Commandfest in Germany near Frankfurt. They stated that Proxys are not allowed there. Every year. The Worst, even Gold-Border Cards like WCD and IE are not allowed.
Slap'em silly fam
which is smart, lol you wanna play gold borders? cmon.
@@kaanozkuscu5079 why wouldnt some one want to play gold borderer cards are you confusing them with silver or do you just not like gold?
@@donnyshankles7852 gold borders aren’t tournament legal technically… but I mean it’s kinda of dumb they’d make a card that’s not tournament legal.
The gold bordered cards have never been legal in anything. They're just fancy proxies.
If Proxy's were okay, it would of been nice for Wizards to not shut my website down...
You sold the real art proxies didn't you.
If you're making cards, that's considered counterfeiting, not proxying. Proxying is like...getting a basic mountain and writing mana crypt on it
@@emoviking3385no proxying is also making or buying fake versions of existing cards even if you copy the artwork. If it’s a fake version of a card then it’s a proxy.
@@emoviking3385 okay but if proxying is as you say "getting a basic mountain and writing mana crypt on it" then the cards that Commander's Quarters is providing and showing in the video are counterfeits as described by your definition so it would be no different than what the original commenter was doing.
@@emoviking3385 that isnt true. you can make quality proxies that arent counterfeit. Different backs, and/or copies printed on a page that can be slipped in front of a land or bulk card is legal.
Well. I’m glad we’re where we’re at right now ✌️ proxies are healthy. Fight my skill not my wallet.
Only important rule: match the power level. Don’t be that PL9 sitting at a PL6…
I agree with you. My collection is over 20k cards and I play with friends who don't have much more than the decks they play with. Using proxies levels the playing field. We restrict certain cards like power nine on agreement. House rules, basically. When I'm building decks I will typically proxy most of the cards because I can print them for $1-$2 per sheet, even printing an entire commander deck for less than $20. It helps when I own the cards (most of them), but don't want to search my whole collection to put them together. I spend a lot of money on Magic, and that hasn't changed. The fact that I proxy only results in me continuing to purchase card singles and sealed product. I spend too much, actually, and by the time the cards arrive I have moved on from the idea that spurred the purchase and goes unused.
Bracket level now homie.
Where did you get the art from…?
very important question
I use proxies but they all have a false back and lack the holographic logo. And its mostly for cards that I own. Like I don't think I should have to have two Misty Rainforest if I want to play both a Sultai and Simic deck with fetch lands. I keep the originals at home in a binder and proxies go in the deck. This also insulates me from loss of the deck or theft of the deck.
Yep me too, it save time grabing cards from one deck to put into another.
I agree. I own multiple revised dual lands that are in great condition and I wouldn't dream (nightmare?) of shuffling them in a deck, so I proxy them. I also have over 20k cards in my collection, which makes deck building a nightmare when searching for cards I know that I have. I would rather spend a couple dollars at the print shop and slipping paper in front of lands than spending hours searching through my collection. Meanwhile, I still add to my collection through buying singles and sealed product on TCG Player and EBAY. I love buying boxes of boosters and drafting with my boys who also play Magic. The love it because we draft on my dime and they keep the cards they draft. They are both adults, and i appreciate the extra visits I get.
I agree with owning the card, then proxying it. At least at a minimum...own the real card before its proxied.
Well I don't think people should have to own 4 underground seas just to play in legacy for my deck that needs them.
@@ejmercado75hell no thats so dumb it makes no sense I shouldn't need to own the card if I'm just gonna proxy it.. This is why I tell people just buy counterfeits and double sleeve them.. Nobody is ever going to know the difference.
So to add additional confusion here, when you play in most LGS around me at least, they require commander pods to register in the app so that they get credit for the play within the WPN player count systems. The problem is that by doing that, it makes it a sanctioned game, and therefor the store is supposed to only allow legitimate Magic cards. So by making the app registration a requirement, they are saying that they have to police the use of proxies within the store pods or risk disciplinary actions from WPN. It's unlikely they get reported but it just takes one salty person and an investigation starts.
That said, screw that and I play with proxies with my friends. I wouldn't bring a very expensive deck to a convention either, so I plan to move to a fully proxied deck for non-competitive convention play.
I'm that salty person. Own a copy of it before you proxy. I only acknowledge proxies as place holders for valuable game pieces. If its a sanctioned event at the LGS, I make sure the store makes it clear about decks utilizing proxies as ILLEGAL. Right? Otherwise fuck it! Screw the ban list too.
@@ejmercado75 Absolutely screw the banlist. *Now* you're getting it!
Just buy counterfeits and double sleeve nobody is gonna call u out they won't even know lol.. Just play and have fun this is a card game grown adults take it way to serious.
@@ejmercado75u would never be able to tell a counterfeit double sleeved card from a "real" piece of over priced cardboard lmao.
@ says the broke loser
This wouldn't be a problem if we didn't have greasy scalpers, and wotc actually printed to demand. They wouldn't have a problem if they actually cared about the player's. Nobody wants to pay the price of a house for something on the reserve list, and nobody should have to pay 300$ for a secret lair. I hope wotc thinks of player's who actually play before the few people who own a majority of the reserve list cards. I think they should reprint the dual lands, moxen, and ancestral recall. We've had every other 1 mana card of the color pie printed numerous times. The player's and new collector's are the people making wotc rich.
EXACTLY!!! I have been saying this FOR YEARS!! WoTC have all the power to stop counterfeits and to bring prices down on the secondary market and they choose not to. So I say counterfeit away people I just wanna play magic competitively without having to drop insane amounts of money.
Thanks a lot for your community support. It’s great to have a passionate and creative person in our corner. Now all we need is someone to come up with their own version of spelltable!
I would not trust Wizards to uphold a stance they had 8 years ago. Especially if that stance was consumer friendly.
How could it possibly matter? If I use proxies at a non-sanctioned event and wizards decides that they don't want me to do it, what are they going to do about it?
The article was from 2016
Recently saw something about a legal card that was only ever printed in FOIL (nexus of fate) and Wizards would force people to play with proxies in place of those cards because of the Pringle-ling of the cards made it clearly apparent where each one was in that persons deck.
They have footage of this at tournaments.
Wizards has been fine with proxies in certain cases for years, why not just let people have it. I don't see the value of legit cards going down because of that
Appreciate what your content has done for the MTG community. You're fighting the good fight.
Thanks for the permission. My proxy's been ordered.
And people said I was overreacting when I was unhappy with the mechanically unique Walking Dead SL.
I warned it was just the beginning, and that one day we wouldn't recognize Magic.
These are so dope Mitch. You have a great team!
I believe the brackets idea for Commander is to standardised Commander into tournaments. This would allow Hasbro-WOTC to try to prevent proxying or at least make it a taboo.
Good to know. My Marvel proxies were cheaper, and didn't require me to sit in a pointless line for 6 hours. If the company doesn't provide, the market has zero problem filling the gaps. Scalpers can eat the cards for all I care.
Everyone seems to be ignoring the statement that playtest cards aren't supposed to have official art and should be identifiable as non-official cards even on a cursory glance.
Doesn't that mean that printing actual cards shouldn't be allowed? Since they have the official art and, depeding on the quality of print, sometimes aren't easily identifiable?
From your video said, proxies are still banned in MTG events like commander fest (thank god they finally took off Jeweled Lotus off the website’s Home Screen) but you can play with proxies at home games and LGS that isn’t doing a commander event and you can use a proxy in standard (universes are going to be all formats next year) if there is no judge.
If you’re playing an FNM, you still can’t proxy even if there isn’t a judge. If the store you’re playing at is a WPN store, and has you use the Companion app to sign up for an event, you cannot proxy.
TLDR wizards came out with an article 8 years ago that they are more or less okay with proxies and only are against them in DCI events.
Was starting to think this was just a modern rehash of the old proxy policy most players should have come across over the years. But, the addition of the dropbox link for cool proxies made this a worthwhile watch.
Does this technically mean we can use proxies in a 60 card format event at our LGS if it’s not DCI sanctioned? I assume it’s up to the store at that point if they would allow it?
I'd much rather play with those Magic-style cards than any non-Magic IP art cards.
Keep your pop culture out of my Magic!
Good job, Mitch and team
They are fine proxies for non-DCI sanctioned tournaments. That's not the same as being "100%" fine with them.
Just to keep things clear. Would hate for someone to try and participate in a DCI tournament after hearing this video and getting the wrong idea. 👍🏼
This. No matter what this guy says, you can not play in a sanctioned event at a wpn store with anything but real mtg cards.
If you sign in with your WotC account you cannot use proxies.
If you’re just playing with friends casually in the store and receiving no prizes or promos, then proxies are fine
Buy counterfeits and double sleeve them wouldn't be able to tell the difference.
@@thebigsquigthere is no such thing as "real" MTG cards lmao.. They r all pieces of over hyped cardboard with ink.
Judges will randomly unsleeve cards to check for that too.
Having taught a magic club at a middle school, letting people proxy when they can't afford the real cards is how you eventually get people who spend THOUSANDS of dollars on magic products.
That's convenient. 😂 This is just a cop out way for them to stick with their greedy business plans while shoving the responsibility onto players and 3rd parties. This just allows them to satiate their consumers and earn some brownie points while not having to change anything about their business models.
Just going to say, out the LGS's around here, several people tried to pull this stuff. A sudden $1-2k deck made entirely of proxies. Perhaps if your LGS allows it, but it was immediately banned at most stores in the area. It's alright at lower lvls or if your pod table 0's it, but having win cons in your deck you don't actually own, and going off on turn 2 with proxies ain't happening lmao.
Great job Mitch, if you get time you could also do the Jurassic Park tie in to LCI and the Transformers tie in to BRO. Less of an issue than the secret lairs, as at least they were available in boosters, but would still be nice to have proper Magic themed versions of them, rather than having real-world clothes, motorcycles and computers in the art in the case of REX set. BOT set would be nice to have them in the form of KLD, NEO or BRO mechs, rather than the 80's cartoon look.
I only buy counterfeit cards, if they are going to ban expensive cards, you'd be stupid to continue buying them.
This is honestly so cool, thanks for doing this for the community
I proxy cards i own to put in all my other decks VS having to constantly move cards around
I mean, if they can can print proxies of reserve list cards, why not us?
These are awesome! I love it! While i find some of the secret lairs cool, I would much prefer playing with cards that fit the Magic universe(s). Thanks a lot. I hope there are more to come.
The good thing about analog games is that you can play them however you want, with whomever you want. So long as your playgroup agrees, WotC can't do shit about what house rules, mods and proxies you're playing with.
If they're gonna keep hurting the LGS for people wanting to play cards they can't keep in stock and WotC isn't providing them, maybe the LGS should invest in Bushiroad, Bandai and TPC instead.
DCI isn't even a thing anymore so I guess proxies are fine in all events now
Your opening statement had me double checking the videos timestamp. I was sure it was going to say April 1st. 😅
Can you release the file for each card separately so that we can send them off for printing at places like majeplayingcards? Thank you!!
Should be updated!
@@TheCommandersQuarters Thank you so much!
This is all great until wizards decides to change that rule as well
Very fun to see proxies being repped like this! Especially, to your point, with recent printing shenanigans WOTC has pulled.
I put together a Dune deck recently with fully recreated MTG cards. All real mechanically but entirely restyled as Dune characters! Sure I can't take it to a 'sanctioned commander' event. But when was the last time I played at a sanctioned event...?
Little misleading it doesnt mean wizards is ok with it just that they arent going to police it as of 2016 (obviously things can change see everything relared to UB).
That however doesnt prohibt your LGS from limiting or not allowing proxies so my only 10 cents would be if your LGS has rules about proxies don't be shitty to them based on this.
I use them for home games with my friends only.
This is an awesome concept! The only downside is that EDHrec won't recognize these card names. Not sure who you got to do all of this art but its fantastic as well.
It's funny how it's illegal to pirate games and movies and virtually anything else, but suddenly, there's this pervasive moral ambiguity when it comes to stealing with the Magic IP. Rather than just being okay with building up a collection over time or -gasp- just not having access to something immediately, there is actually this sense of moral righteousness that comes from people who buy fake cards using pirated art from proxy websites when they encounter players who have any issue with the fact that they use "proxies".
I can understand if someone already owns the cards, because then they could conceivably take the time to switch cards between decks. But there is a significant population of players who dont buy any cards and just buy essentially counterfeit cards from so-called proxy websites. And the weirdest thing is, they've given me shit for buying real cards from legitimate online vendors, saying "support your local game store." As if their mere presence and ability to log in to an app for a game they dont even support is somehow a justification for piracy. And by the way, those same people usually magically forget to pay for their share of food/drink when it's ordered for the group.
Here's a crazy idea: how about everyone buys the cards they want and there would be no need to engage in a moral argument. If you can't afford something...you dont get to have it! Welcome to life.
Once upon a time, as a player, you as a human had to go out and find the cards, pay the price and it was when cards were rare.
It was a Good time, before the corporations, when we players actually had to be creative and sculpt, craft, gather and create our decks.
Before the empire..
Proxyking is amazing.
They should just reprint the marvel secret lair and call it a day.
Or go back to the print to demand model. Can't scalp infinite.
@@patrickgallogly8092it's not infinite. There is a limit of how much they can print and that limit is the amount of resources in the world. But the print on demand is less profitable for scalpers to scalp.
I really like some of the proxies in this video, would be absolutely wizard if they were borderless.
Will this have all the proxies you've done? Or only these ones? Or is there a way to get the full drop box?
Shouldn't the artists be credited? Is there a way to know who did what?
Back during the era of zendikar rising through March of the machine, every set had double-faced cards. To this end, some boosters included blanks that you could use to represent them in a deck.
What I did was pick up 60 of them for $15. Now I can have any card I want from a jeweled lotus to an anointed procession for 15 cents, and without any fucking SpongeBob on them.
You wont be playing in my pod. Your pride is strong when it comes to Sponge Bob, but are ok with fake cards? LOL
i legit sat in que for 8 hours just to be shown they were sold out i got in que at 9am the day of the drop and didnt get to buy anything till 5pm and it was all gone.
Finally someone shows the official wotc announcement about proxies policy.
Everybody talks about them but completely IGNORE this statement.
They act like this because wotc allows proxies and people just don't want to see them at the table.
Well, that's wrong and, if you ask my opinion about, it's also classism.
You can proxy whatever you want if you follow the rules and NOBODY can't nitpicking you for that because is legit to play them.
Mitch's one of the few honest players. The major yt channels (you know what I'm talking about) are trying to ostracize proxy players, even if they run a few of them.
These people are paid by wotc for push the sealed products and also play an important role on secondary market.
Mitch just doesn't care and i really appreciate how he openly and clearly talk about the proxy controversies.
Bye haters.
I personally like the art on these proxy’s better than the official cards! 👏👍🤓
Yeah so, um... They sold us an official product of proxy cards in that 30th anniversary product. Those cards pass as real cards. Sure, flip them over and it's obvious they are not normal cards. Fine.
But from the front, they look real and normal.
I know people with high quality fakes, but the back of the card has "Fake" written on it. The primary issue is that fakes might get distributed right? Well, if you write fake on it, no one will want it. Problem solved.
I don't know if we ever talk about the technical side of printing cards. Using Windows, I use the Print Wizard. If the images are jpgs or compatible, I select 9 at time, right-click and select Print. In the wizard, I select wallet-sized and uncheck the "Fit picture to frame" box. This results in a sheet that you can cut out and fits nicely into sleeves.
Is this what everyone else does? Does anyone else need to see this? Does anyone have a better method?
As a yugioh player it's crazy how long it's taken for the mtg community it catch up.
Like duh, you can't use "play test" cards aka proxys in a tournament.
They have no choice in the matter.
They aren't printing enough supply for the competitive environments, let alone the casual market.
i love this idea. i really don't want to stare at spider when he comes out.
So we can play proxies in tournaments now?
No
I completely forgot about the Storm drop. I was awake that day too. I am livid. Extremely livid. I have a seething hate for the company and the secondary market right now. I am going to find the best proxy card creator I can find.
I am very simple. I realy like the . . . bet? Rhythm? The cowbell(?) sound that is at the begining of these vids.
I'm probably going to be printing cards like this for myself
What’s your guys proxy site?
Can I use proxy tokens in events?
Thanks for your considerate takes!
I take issue with proxy cards when folks enter their proxied deck into the LGS FNM, pay 2.50 for the pod and walk off with the win and Pack. That's HORSE SHIT! I take pride and OWN all my legit game pieces. I worked too hard for my collection and game pieces to see some douche print an expensive piece and THINKS IT IS OK! I'll always object to proxies when my money is being spent to play at my LGS and packs are on the line. If you own a single copy of a card and want to proxy that...that's ok at least you OWN IT.
I purchased proxies the Friday before the drop. I got them on drop day. They will get my money when they start caring about the community again.
That's cool, it doesn't matter what wizards would have said, people were gonna do it anyways, and they should.
Lmao.
This is an 8-year-old announcement that I have referenced dozens of times, even *before* the EDH community started becoming more aligned with proxy use.
Hey! Where's the best place to buy proxies CQ?
Quick question. I hear you keep mentioning in your recent videos that, I can print these at a library or a king coast. Is that a website or something?
Kinko's is a place where you can get printing done.
This article says from 2016?
So, im just happily willing to look dumb online, but do these cards acknowledge, in some way, that they are "effectively" functionally the same card as they are proxies of? I'll always hate that EDH is a singleton format, but it is, and it would be odd if the person who actually brought/acquired a copy of Storm, for example, could have that helm the deck, and then play the copy with a different name, in the 99, basically having two cards to do things with? I like some of the other "proxy cards" that say they are effectively what they copy; that name posted under this one's, so singleton can still apply, but do these do so in a way your average player would recognize? Is this a thing only for Legendary Creatures, who you might want at the head of a deck, or would you do this for other card ryoes, too?
There would have to be a pre existing card that already does the same thing for instance you have Elvish Mystic and Llanowar Elves that are basically the same thing in all but name so those you could have two of the same because there’s another thing out there that does it already but in the case of say Storm there’s no other card that does that so it’s still storm still the same creature because it can’t BE any other creature as a result you can’t bring storm and then proxy a second one and slap a new name cause they’d technically be the exact same card
If it wasn't a sanctioned tournament then why is wizards even speaking on this? What someone does with their private business is none of wizards business.
never recieved secret lair I bought and customer service has been useless. So I printed them.
What about counterfeits?
They don’t care as long as you give them money hahaha
Brilliant 😎 It doesn't affect the WOTC bottom line either, as they sold out. Everyone wins.
Best website for proxies??
And now elitist pricks can suck it....officially. Never understood the hate on Proxies. Except for tournaments as there is something to actually compete for.
But jumping in someone's shit because they don't want to pay money for a bunch of cards they may not even like.
The only secret lair I’ll buy is SAINT SEIYA, that anime go soooo GOOD with magic!
So this article is good and all but they have shown to change their mind constantly I would consider anything they said last week to even have merit
I don’t get it? This is what they’ve always said.
Proxies are ok for everything besides official events.
Sorry but if I wanna use a gaeas cradle I'm not gonna use an $800 dollar card
I have 2 great condition Revised Volcanic Islands (among other valuable cards), and will proxy them when including in a deck so they keep their great condition and value. That said, if I want a card that is valuable in my deck that I don't currently own....I won't let that stop me from enjoying the card as a proxy.
I'm personally making an Arbaaz Mir from Assassin's Creed into Moon Knight, and he basically just has several different legends in the deck as other personalities of Marc Spector, and he just throws objects at his enemies