In Defense of "Sonic’s Stupid Friends"
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- Опубликовано: 21 сен 2024
- Over time, dialogue, and character interactions have become a great focus for the Sonic The Hedgehog series. However, due to a bunch of miscellaneous factors, the idea that the greater Sonic cast-- "Sonic's stupid friends"-- bogs the series down became more and more popular across the years.
Right now, we're at a point where even this discussion itself has become old, and there's a sizeable number of fans who enjoy the characters the games have introduced over the years. Still, I have a point of view on the discussion that I rarely see around on the endless discourse about Sonic. Today, I share my two cents on why Sonic's extended cast is a good thing, and why it's been better than ever over the last few years.
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I remember reading this online that just by introducing tails that’s one too many friends for sonic. Yes his first friend is one too many So basically, some people saying that sonic deserves to be alone, no friends whatsoever what a sad, lonely existence
No! That being depressing sonic don't need to be alone and that why? he has his friends for, They like family to him.😒🙂😏
I feel like if you get rid of Sonic's friends, it wouldn't be that much interesting.
Oh my god, this take is so good! Personally I think Sonic works best when it is just a bunch of underdog friends chilling and having fun, then bad stuff happens now we have to survive, but still we have fun, while doing so. That's why parodies like snapcube or many comics are so dear to my heart. And honestly I'm a new fan, less than a year active in fandom and I came from Sonic Prime (my beloved glorified sonadow fanfiction) and then read IWD comics and I can't wait for more things like Shadow generations - just Sega giving other characters some shine! The world of this franchise isn’t just Sonic anymore and I really find it fascinating. And the fact that fandom is constantly fighting I also find it inspiring since Sonic as a franchise is more like a spectrum. And same with his friends and is just crazy, and I fucking love it. Anyway, I really liked how you gushed 2 times about Murder of Sonic the Hedgehog since I as well I'm attempting to do a sonic visual novel about “healing” or “corrupting” Sonic metal state. But enough about me! You definitely deserve more views so please talk more about Sonic, the quality is great. Keep going!
Thanks so much! We'll keep working hard over here! There'll definitely be more videos on Sonic, especially with Shadow Generations and movie 3 coming out later this year! + A bunch of other stuff!
It's funny that you mentioned Sonic Prime cuz-- despite agreeing about the whole Sonic characters thing this video's about-- I actually wasn't a big fan of that one lol (made a whole video about it even). I have my issues with some story/character inconsistencies, the pacing and the overall style of writing. But as you said, being a Sonic fan is kind of a spectrum nowadays haha. It's chill, and I'm glad you were able to get into the series in your own way
It's so exciting to see Amy playable in all these new games. If she's not allowed to have a spark of life in her dialog, she can FINALLY HAVE IT IN HER GAMEPLAY
I never understood the criticism: At least in concept, it's two things: 1. A mirror of the "friends made along the way" that stick around one's life. 2. A "best of" collection of highs and lows from each adventure that stayed with us, having their respective debut games centered around them in some way, and representing the ever-changing universe of Sonic (before the '06 disaster and following stigma.)
What could be both more human and constructive than them? The friends we made along the way?.. Of course, assuming everything is written at least decently. Damned be the overt backlash!
Wow that's a really cool perspective, actually! I never thought of putting it like that, but it makes a lotta sense, yeah!
I like his “stupid friends”. Sonic’s a solo hero for the most part, but why can’t he have a social circle?
I really enjoyed this discussion! I agree that while it’s cool to have Sonic and friends beating up Eggman, it’s also so nice to just see them chilling and being friends.
Also, as one of the official voice actors for Sonic Revolution, I appreciated the shoutout at the end! We certainly do our best to bring these characters to life and to make things enjoyable for everyone listening in. Thank you so much!
Oh thanks so much! Small world, eh? I really enjoyed what I've seen of you guys' work! Keep it up!
I'm sorry but... Amy WAS her own Person, just because she had strong feelings for Sonic doesn't mean that was her only personality. Now she's more like her boom counterpart where she doesn't want to wear her feelings on her sleves anymore...
Knuckles and Shadow get unfair flanderization as well, Knuckles is treated like an idiot, sure he's naive and a bit of a knucklehead, but he's not 1 Intelligence stupid (Fallout term for dumb) like his Boom version, and Shadow's not an edge lord who hates people, i mean he "Can" be edgy but that's not his personality, he's supposed to be the ultimate lifeform.
And even some wanted Sonic to just be "cartoon hedgehog go fast, smash robot, crack one liner" Even though Sonic 1-3&K Sonic doesn't talk... The one liners thing was during the Meta era, and Sonic has a personality outside of what people expect of him.
I think Shadow had been done kinda dirty too (hence my complaining about the mandates). But it seems things have been doing better for him lately (as in, the last few months). We're getting there.
I don't mean to devalue the good writing from games prior. I don't think Adventure era Sonic was only one-liners, and I Amy was indeed already her own person. I'm just saying that-- at least from what it seems like to me-- they're giving more of a focus on exploring the characters' personalities and going nowadays. Adventure 2-- for example-- didn't have TIME to do that with it's two hours of cutscenes. As opposed to say-- a whole visual novel, comic book run, and a dialogue-focused game like Frontiers. For better or worse, things were more to the point. While the changes they made to Amy specifically can be questionable, I still think it's true that I know her *more* as a person than I did back on the day. Emphasis on "more". Just like how I used "more" when I said said I think Amy is more of her own person in the video.
That aside-- hard disagree on Knuckles tbh. I agreed with what you said back in like--2018. Knuckles in the comics, Frontiers, Divergence was pretty much spot-on imo. Especially on that last one.
I disagree about Amy.
Also I don't consider their ages retconned yet until they say so. Delisting ages doesn't mean that they don't have ages.
Or maybe they have commented on it and I'm not aware. Regardless, those were the ages for a while so that's how I'm gonna see them regardless til it changes.
Pretty sure Ian Flynn's been on-record saying we shouldn't worry about the ages anymore. As far as official Sega channels go, I think there hasn't been anything overt, but the silence speaks for itself. I don't think Sega would want to be overt about it either way.
Maybe "retconed" isn't necessarily the right word to use, but from the looks of it, the idea itself seems to be abandoned. Having hard ages for the characters can be extremely limiting, especially when there's like-- no way all of these stories took place within a single year. I think the lack of recent mentions of character ages (with Izuka specifically dodging the question once in a Sonic Frontiers interview) after they've specifically delisted from the official site, in addition to Ian-- as one of the series' main writers-- outright stating the ages don't matter anymore is enough evidence that that's the case for me.
Basically, the ages are intentionally up in the air now. Believe whatever you want. No one's gonna stop ya.
As for the Amy thing, yeah, that's fair. I know a lotta people don't like her sudden change in characterization. Personally I even think it could've been done a lot more gracefully from a writing standpoint. Still, I choose to believe that, in-universe, this is just the product of her off-screen character development and maturing, rather than some misunderstanding of who Amy even is.
It's clearly a deliberate choice made for external reasons, so I don't think there was much of a way around it tbh
@@ashster_sunshine I’m not too worried about what Ian Flynn says. He made Prime’s canon explanation sound big and just said “well it takes place
Sometime after Advance 3” (we literally see Cubot at the beginning of the series with his post-Colors voice portrayal)
And no, the silence doesn’t speak for itself as far as I’m concerned. If anything, it just means they don’t want to have to stick to anything concrete, but doesn’t imply that the ages aren’t valid anymore until they so overtly say otherwise. It likely just means they want to be able to portray Sonic at different points in time.
Otherwise Iizuka wouldn’t need to dodge. He can just say “they don’t have set ages anymore”.
And actually my thing about Amy…
It’s hard to say.
It’s like they did something drastic to her and didn’t do anything at all. But at the same time.
She has little personality now that makes her stand out. What they described was basically a replica of Sonic, ironically sorta bringing her back to square one when she has no personality in CD and was just a girl Sonic by design. The other thing is that they seem to act as thought this traits are in conflict with her infatuation with Sonic. Really, they can do both. But the problem is that her dynamic with Sonic (all the characters have a dynamic with each other) was taken away because people mistook that for her personality trait. Her dynamic was also in part a running gag that they ruined by going to far and giving her a temper in Sonic X (which is way out of character if you play the Adventure games prior) and now the gag was taken too seriously and is being used as a claim of character development. Except there’s no development. It just suddenly changes. In the form of an announcement. Not even in practice. They just SAY she’s different now but didn’t actually DO anything with her. The other odd thing is they try to silence the fangirl aspect but still say she likes Sonic…. And Ian Flynn is a SonAmy shipper. Nothing against SonAmy fans, but in terms of official portrayals, they were always one-sided romantically. It was cool having an MC who didn’t really HAVE to date someone. It was a huge appeal for me growing up. Didn’t mind Sonic dating on other continuities because they’re different continuities. But despite them trying to hush this dynamic of Sonic and Amy, Ian still finds ways to squeeze in hints of the ship only not as a gag, but as an actual relationship development like Sonic saying that to himself about Amy that he should’ve made up his mind sooner implying he was just indecisive. (But also what’s making him say this? It’s not like he was too late or something.)
If anything, it sounds like they paid attention only to the modern tunnel vision Amy, ignored the plethora of traits from Adventure Amy, and decided to do what Adventure Amy was already doing as “new traits” only much more watered down because it was probably an unconscious influence. So it’s not like I HATE what they’re doing with her. But it feels like they don’t know what they’re doing with her, and that they’re only doing it because Amy is starting to fall victim to the poor treatment of female characters in modern times. With the irony of trying to make them better.
Just think about all the classic cartoons that got a piss poor reboot like Ben 10 or PowerPuff Girls. That’s how I see what’s happening. lol
Sorry to come off aggressive with a wall of text btw. Your video was actually rather great. I’m just really invested. lol
Sometimes I feel like those that whine about Sonic’s friends lack much of a social life themselves.
The "Sonic's stupid friends" argument is made by friendless losers.
What do you mean the characters have "grown up with us". Sonic is a series for children, why would a children series need it's characters to "grow up with fans"?
Saying it's *exclusively* for children is kinda reductive if you ask me. I just me mean that there's been an increased focus on character development; one that's appreciated by older fans like me and many others, who stuck around
@@ashster_sunshine but how have the characters "grown up", if they’re still underage, and don't talk adult stuff or say swear words or do drugs or drink alcohol?
I mean, maturity isn't just about that. And thank goodness it isn't-- having Sonic characters doing drugs and shit officially would be TERRIBLE. Again, character development. The characters have changed, grown up. It doesn't have to be as tangible. Simply compare the types of dialogue they have in Sonic Frontiers versus something like Sonic Adventure. It's still very much accessible for younger folk, which is great! But there's *something* more complex on an emotional level for whoever wants to look for it
FINALLY SOMEONE DEFENDS SONIC'S FRIENDS!FINALLYYYYYYYYYYYYY!🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩
I have been defending them for the past 15 Years when I was upset by their removal from the games.
The fact that someone needs to defend his friends is dumb, anyways. There’s no sense of variety if there’s no cast in a huge media like Sonic
Shadow the hedgehog still being an android
☺️
And stupidly mean
I disagree with your take on IDW and Flynn. Frankly I think he's the worst thing to happen to this franchise since Pontac and Graff. The IDW comic is nothing but references and poorly-done Michael Bay action scenes. There's nothing but inconsequential arcs that have to revert to a half-baked status quo because the "canon" nonsense means they can do nothing worthwhile between game releases - and the games haven't been good since Heroes so those are no help there. This status quo could be interesting ... ish ... were it not for the fact that there's no worldbuilding whatsoever for us to care.
The new characters have largely pleasant designs, but they're walking one-note personality traits; "I'm hyper and annoying", "I'm shy/ptsd", "I'm nervous and OCD". I thought nowadays we discouraged such one-dimensional characterization, with "it's licensed" and "it's a kid's thing" no longer being excuses? Or are we making an exception because Flynn is holding everyone's kittens hostage or something?
Edit: I forgot to mention how Sonic himself is a horrible person and a hypocrite in IDW. I won't touch on Frontiers because I could write a book on how much I dislike every single thing about that game. Ok that's hyperbole but you get my point.
Now, I say all that, and voice my opinion, but want to make it clear I'm merely opining here, and am not out to attack nor antagonize anyone who disagrees with me. Because that'd be retarded. While I disagree with you, I look forward to watching your channel grow.
Speaking of status quo, as I said on a previous video on a different account. I have nothing against Flynn or the Metal Virus Saga, they're cool, however my main gripe with the Metal Virus Saga which is this. Even though Forces was not treated really as a serious and grim game because of how it was sadly written (and should have way more pity because of how it was screwed over during production and is now left to rot ) but people in that game died. From onscreen deaths in the Avatar's flashback to an offscreen mention by Amy in one of the levels. You know? "80% of our forces have been wiped out!"
This status quo. This status of pain. This cycle has put not just Sonic's kind at risk because of his egg shaped nemesis, but Eggman's own kind. HUMANITY!!
Because of Sonic who has refused stop his reign of terror for good, despite the doc's numerous atrocities against innocent creatures and endangering members of both Sonic's kind and his own. Despite the doc putting Sonic's friends in a timeless white void which has been stated to be a fate worse than death, Eggman get's away with everything. Now to be fair, Eggman has never succeeded until partially in Forces and also before then he was trapped with his younger counterpart in the white void after his defeat in Generations. Even though he would escape by unknown means.
This is how Infinite should've been written. As someone who is tired of the world he lives in BS. Someone who wants destroy everyone for contributing to how the world is out of anger. Only helping Eggman build his Empire so he can tear it all down and teach him what it's like to lose. The infinite karma to the world. Instead he was written as a joke because of a poor choice of writers and like the game he first appeared in. He's been left to rot. But hey, even if the game is bad, surely after something this crazy maybe Eggman will be gone for good or just locked up for a good while until some other time or- WRONG!! BEHOLD IDW AND HIS GREATNESS FLYNN!!
The world is getting back on its feet and trying to pick up the pieces, only for Eggman to show up with a mechanized bio weapon quite literally the next day. A major middle finger to everyone's struggle in Forces. Flynn you're a cool writer, but really man? Did you have to make innocent lives, Resistance fighters, and presuming before the main events of Forces the deaths of G.U.N soldiers and other armed forces of the worlds deaths meaningless and upgrade everyone's PTSD to R E Q U I E M?