I think Chael miss-interpreted what Joe was saying. He wasn't saying that missing weight is sanctioned cheating. He was saying weight cutting in general is sanctioned cheating; in that I can weigh in at 170, but be 200lb on the day of the fight.
Thiago Alves gains nearly 30 pounds in three hours after UFC on FX 2 weigh ins. 24 hours after weighing 145 pounds, UFC's Diego Sanchez now at 171.2. Many heavy weight fighters have gained back 30 pounds in 24 hours. Even 145 pound Connor gains 25-27 pounds after the weigh in. img.bleacherreport.net/img/article/media_slots/photos/002/517/105/d12b54479d5db99d76bb840f018b054d_crop_exact.jpg?h=533&w=800&q=70&crop_x=center&crop_y=top
Brian Abisdid Darren Till (the catalyst for recent conversations about the topic) weighs in 200-205 lbs come fight night after a full weight cut. He was asked about it and made the claim.
Exactly my thought! JR is an advocate of natural weight divisions, and his argument is that fighters would actually perform better at their natural weight too
Roy Overjoy I was about to comment a smart ass remark about having a huge stain but I figured I'd better scan the comments before I made an idiot of myself. Glad u noticed it haha
Till has missed weight in his last 2 fights and then given a title shot, what a joke. Even if he makes weight, by the time of the fight hes back up to 90kg
The weight cutting is so extreme in the UFC that the weight divisions don't mean as much. Conor probably walks around at 175+, yet captured his first title at 145. Till walks around at 210+ and is fighting for the title at 170. Even if Till makes weight, isn't that still ridiculous? Dude is big as Randy Coture when he was the fucking heavyweight champ and he's fighting at welterweight. That devalues the entire structure of champions, imo.
Fredrick Miller Thing is they don't even 'make weight' really, it's a charade. Weighing someone after they've depleted almost all water and chyme from their system is like charging someone for 5lbs worth of fruits and then squeezing out the juice before giving it to them. It's infuriatingly dishonest.
Conor does not walk around that heavy, even after the 4 month camp for his second fight with Diaz he only weighed in at 168lbs. His walk around is most likely 165lbs. He told Floyd he was heavy but that was clearly an intimidation tactic.
Why Conor? Why isn't anyone mentioning khabib. Joe rogan had even said he heard from Dc That he's 200 lb almost walking around. He's training with heavyweights. It's to be a bigger guy in a smaller division. Conor at 145 he looked rough against Mendes.
170lbs and above is the problem. Should have in between weight division. 170 to 185 is big a gap as to 185 to 205 and the heavyweight weight allowance is to big at 206 to 265. Many fighter are in between those weight. And the fact that UFC even allowed to you to fight for the Championship after winning a fight even if you are above the weight limit.
Look, I like Darren Till a lot. But, what I thought was telling, when he missed weight against Wonderboy Thompson, Thompson's camp said just make 185 (on fight night). And Till's camp responded that he couldn't do that and they had to negotiate up to 188. So, basically, Thompson said just stay under another weight class limit. 185 is a middle weight!! At that point you are not a welter weight.
Exactly, it's absurd. And it's the promotion's fault for giving fighters a day and a half to recover after shedding water and chyme to appear a weight that they're not. They're green-lighting this cheating behaviour, practically even encouraging it. You should step in the cage the weight that your weight-class says you are.
Ya they should get one chance to miss weight “ things could of happened behind the scene “ but if they miss weight again I agree they should have to fight up a weight class
Tom Foolery I don't think it should be a fight or two, I think if you miss twice or thrice in a few matches then you move up, a "this is your weight class now, you can go up but not down" type of situation.
It's dangerous though as this could cause deaths as some fighters know that to make it big in the UFC they must fight at a lower weight class and therefore could go to extreme methods to cut that weight; this is one of the reasons this makes this issue very hard to change imo.
Sleepless Specter Alpaca Thesauras is a completely different type of MMA channel, it's more about the psychology of it, but for me it's right there with Chael Sonnen.
As a casual fan turned hardcore fan, I can say there is definitely a disconnect. Before I really got into the sport and started following fighters, watching interviews, and before I started training in and learning the sport I thought the weight classes were either their weight or at most 10 pounds off their weight. I never understood that most light weights were damn near middle weights at their natural weight. It's hard to imagine, even wrestling in high school I was only 5 or 6 at most from my weight class, most of the time a quick run with a trash bag would work, and on a good week stripping down naked was all I needed. It's really hard to imagine a person dropping 30 pounds in a month.
Weight classes do NOT exist in the UFC. Sanctions are NOT meaningful. The following rule needs to be instituted immediately. Fighters that make weight should have full authority to reject any opponent that doesn't make weight and those who miss weight are suspended for one year. Also, if you miss weight you cannot win a fight as you are cheating. Not only does the current weight class system NOT allow even matched opponents to fight, but it is barbaric and possibly deadly. Cutting weight can hurt athletes so much that they need medication and hospitalization to recover. Also, fighters who can cut a lot of weight easily for whatever reason, have a tremendous advantage. Please read on. UFC weight classes are truly non-existent. Fighters should have to make weight upon entering the octagon. Today, a fighter can "make weight" but enter the octagon 20 or 30 pounds heavier at fight time? Ridiculous and unfair. Having hydration testing AND weigh-ins at fight time is the best way to protect fighter's health and make the sport truly respectable and with real competition amongst fighters of the same weight. Weight classes do NOT exist. I wish you would use your influence to spearhead a movement to bring true weight classes to the UFC.
weight cutting ruins the sport like Ortega who looked like a Welterweight fighting Frankie who is a natural 145 its stupid and makes weightclasses useless
Ortega looked like a welterweight? Hes only 5'8 and skinny. Are u blind or yes? He would be small if he fights in the lightweight division, if not, not more than average lightweights
Marcellino Sananto its not bitching I want a better product where fighter are 100% healthy and weighs the same on fight night. It makes the product better
I think they should either prevent weight-cutting altogether or have people weigh-in on the day of the fight so they can't fully re-hydrate if they cut too much weight.
No serious injury if retards dont cut without time to rehydrate, weigh in an hour or two before a fight should fix it all. Most fighters would just move to their natural weight class and not cut at all.
@@34672rr what serious injury? That's assuming that people would still cut weight. You can't cut much weight if weigh in is an hour before the fight. It's MMA competition everything is risky and could lead to serious injury.
I agree with Joe, even to the point as to how ONE FC does weigh ins. Your weight class is your walk around weight. Meaning Till would be a light heavyweight.
Lol he definitely wouldn’t go up to light heavyweight. All these fighters that stick around in the lower weight classes so they can have a physical advantage.
Problem is weight fluctuates in and out of camp some guys pack on the body fat. Hydration testing and testing bodyfat is best. If I guy out of a fight walks around at 25% body fat fully hydrated he can drop to as low as 5% body fat, how ever much that weight is. But can't go below that. So the only weigh to cut is to lose body fat not extreme dehydration
They'd have to make a superheavyweight class for the Derrick Lewis and Brock Lesnar type fighters who struggle making 265. That would actually be good - it would make it safer to move the oversized LHWs to HW, making it safe to move the oversized MWs to LHW, and so on and so forth
Chael, if you're looking for an answer, ONE FC figured some of it out. Same day weigh-ins with hydration tests. Joe did mention some of it. 1. Multi-stage weigh-ins, including same day weigh-ins, combined with hydration tests. 2. The addition of a couple of new weight classes. 3. If you miss weight or hydration, you don't fight and you don't get paid. Period. That's pretty much it.
If you come into the Octagon weighing heavier than you did on the scale it is cheating. I understand the strategy of wanting to fight an opponent who weighs less but if that results in you weighing 15, 20, 25lbs heavier than your opponent come the actual time to Fight that's not fair. The UFC and/or the Commission should of fixed this issue years ago just based on the fact it isn't good for the health of the Fighters.
If they cracked down properly, the only real losers would be the huge LHWs who would be forced up to heavyweight. I think fighters would be fine with weight cut restrictions moving them up a class or two - the only deterrent I see is fighters stopping their cuts, only to be moved to a heavier class with fighters who are still cutting crazy weight. For example, Till may be a true LHW if he stopped cutting so much, but he would not be in the LHW Division with true LHWs. He'd be stepping into the Octagon at 210 or so, against fighters stepping in at 230-260. Jones steps in at about 225-230 and he's skinny af for the division. Till would get brutalized, unless more than half the competition at LHW was forced up to HW. Same deal for Romero. The cut gets harder with age, but I think 185 is his peak shape for size and athleticism. At 205 he just doesn't stand out enough.
@@Kabra2012 would just need to rework the weight class, 135, 145, 155, 165, 175, 185, 205, 225, maybe more in the middle, 265 and no limit ''super heavy weight''
I've been saying for years that the fighters should weigh in day of the fight, if not an hour before the fight. These fighters are ruining their health and not fighting in the weight classes they should be.
weight cut problem solved: 18 hours weigh ins. if they are over weight give them unlimited time until they step in the octagon to make weight but they most make weight or not fight no over weights excepted
it gives the on weight fighter more hours to hydrate while the other will still be running and using energy to make weight. so when fight time comes the on weight fighter will have the adv. because he would have 5-7 extra hours of hydration plus the other fighter will have 5-7 extra hours of energy exertion
Yeah as per the above comment, that isn't going to work from a safety point of view, which is why weigh ins were moved back to the previous morning in the first place. Any 'solution' to the weight cutting problem has to be safe for the fighters AND stop them cutting huge amounts of weight. Yours does neither.
My solution to weight cutting problem in MMA. Right now there's 8 divisions for men in the UFC. 125,135,145,155,170,185,205,265. What I propose is 10 divisions. 135,145,155,165,175,185,200,220,240,unlimited. Weigh ins 10 days before the fight, 5 days before the fight, 1 day before the fight and 1 hour before your fight. Do the hydration test as ONE FC is doing. You walk 155>optimal shape you probably weigh about 150>fight at 145. When the last weigh in is done (1 hour before the fight) you shouldn't be allowed to be heavier than 150.0 pounds. If you are even 1 pound heavier the half of the difference of the divisions (145-155 is 150) you are fined 10% for every pound meaning if you come in at 152 for 145 pound fight you are fined 20% of your purse. Be heavier than 150 two times in a row the promotion should force you to move up a weight class.
One concern too, for fighter health is the greater susceptibility to head trauma and concussion that cutting creates. The ONE FC way is the best solution along with possibly adding weight classes for the bigger gaps of more than ten pounds. On point Chael.
Till walks around over 220 lbs , he is cheating ,he is the biggest welterweight in history and cuts over 25% of his body weight tk be bigger than everyone ! That's cheating , weight classes mean same size vs same size and the skills separate the fighters , but till wins based off of size ! He should be 185 or 205 lb fighter !
NUFCIvan why don't you go listen to tills on words !! He has said many times he walks around over 220 and is about 220 on fight day, go investigate a little you dumb fuck
Txig777 everyone he mentioned cuts 40 pounds ,that seems to be the normal , but till cuts over 50 the most in the ufc period and is a foot taller than everyone at 170 I mean ,he is a 185-205 fighter ,using weight to cheat is all , 2 people with the same skill levels , 1 is 20 pounds heavier ,taller,longer,wider than the other guy , the bigger guy wins everytime unless he gasses from being so big
The fact that Till gets rewarded with a title-shot after missing weight, is made worse by the fact that he was gifted the hometown decision over Wonderboy in a fight he probably lost 4 rounds to 1.
jack leroy Matt Sera said Wonderboy won. Colby Covington said Wonderboy won. What was it 3 to 2? The only round Till won was when he scored the knock down. I've been watching UFC since UFC 1. Who the fook are you!?
Connor is pretty much at his natural weight if he's fighting at 155, I'm the same height as him, I workout and the heaviest I've been was 170... I'm usually 155 and I'm pretty good at that size, at 145 I'd be lean, but the point of this video wasn't who's fighting at what division, the point was that there are fighters who come in at lets say 170 on the weigh ins, and the next day they top at 200... That's whole two divisions...
Joe Rogan has spoke out multiple times, UFC should adopt the one fc rules and have hydration tests after weight cutting to force everyone to fight at their natural weight classes
Only way significant changes will be made to the punishment handed out to fighters for missing weight is if we get a situation where a fighter gets hurt by someone who missed the weight and ends up suing the fighter, commission, organisation and promoter. A fighter missing weight should not just get a fine they should be disqualified and removed from the fight as they are trying to cheat.
I think Joe meant that if fighters cut to 170 for example, and the moment they step in the octagon they are 200lbs +. The Advantage the fighters have when doing so should be ‘illegal’.
I think the one hour weigh in is the best way to do it. Totally agree with you on that. It would literally fix EVERYTING that is going wrong with that aspect of the sport.
A buddy of mine used to be a wrestler, and I swear I used to think the exact same thing. The fact that you have these guys who weigh 15 pounds over the weight limit, and he'll just cease drinking anything for a day and a half and wear plastic bags and go jogging in the middle of summer just to try and cut weight, and then the second weigh-in is over they start guzzling water like it's going to be gone tomorrow. It is cheating, in my opinion it's incredibly dishonest, and in my opinion that shows you don't have that much confidence in your own abilities. I never liked it.
people only do it to starch through smaller guys, but remember Conor did it to the featherweight. that dude looked awful when he made 145. conor would not be a star if he didn't spark out all the smaller guys! weight cutting needs to be sorted out!
They do it to protect the card. They don’t want to have to cancel fights right before the ppv and possibly have to do partial refunds or deal with pissed fans.
Massively dehydrating ones body right before stepping in an octagon to receive possible head trauma is not the ideal situation. Obviously many fighters don't fight at 100% but letting the rest and hydrate before competing would be better for fighters and fans.
Joe was talking about weight cutting as a whole, not just missing weight. The point of weight classes is that fighters of the same weight will fight each other, so your weight at weigh-ins should be the same as fight night. The problem is that fighters who are naturally better at cutting water weight have an advantage because they're bigger in the ring. Why should anything other than fighting ability be a factor in the sport of fighting? It's so easy to eliminate weight cutting completely: just test for hydration levels at weigh ins, and if you're dehydrated, you can't win a title, your next two fights must be at the next weight class up, and your opponent can refuse to fight you or take half of your purse for himself. Edit: removed an accidental question mark
6:40 Could someone please explain this to me? Or point me to where Chael Sonnen (or someone else equally qualified) discussed this? My interest in this is as a fan, whom would rather see two guys who are fit at say middleweight NOT go down to light-middleweight (which seems to be the norm) but rather see those fight at (not light) middleweight, where they are both at their best physical shape.
The relevant question for me is WHY does the UFC ALLOW this "sanctioned cheating" to continue almost unabated??? Is it really ALL about their bottom line, i.e., canceling the fight would cost them in future rev? Also, Chael, can you do a break down of HOW missing weight benefits the cheater? I know there are theories and suppositions by the ton but actual BENEFIT to the fighter facts? Please enlighten us.
Love the Chael " I offer to u " Sonnen comment! Pissed myself laughing cause it's so true! Love your work Chael, u should tak over from Dana, I think u would do a great job!
I agree with that harsh wrestling style punishment. And I'd argue that there HAS to be a One FC style hydration weigh in, if only to balance the scales and stop people from either near dying due to weight cuts or coming in much heavier!
I've been saying this shit since the late 90s about boxing.. Dom wasn't the first and neither was I.. you should fight at your natural weight.. multiple weigh ins should be required 3months out leading up to a fight.. if you weigh 200 and want to fight at 170, you must maintain 170 for 3 months.. make them keep it real..
I'm not sure if you heard the podcast, but Rogan took things a bit further. He didn't say missing weight was sanctioned cheating, he said cutting weight at all is sanction cheating. What he's referring are the fighters that fight significantly below their normal walking weight and balloon up after either making or missing weight. He references Darren Till who fights at 170 but walks into the cage well over 200 lbs. He also references the health disadvantages for such actions as well as Japanese weight cutting rules that have seemingly eliminated the issue.
Cutting weight the week before a fight then putting it back on to be heavier than your opponent is cheating. Fight at the weight you walk around at. Valentina Shevchenko had to put on weight to fight at 135. True warrior.
They need to keep track of weight during fight week and have rules implemented to decide whether someone is fit to compete in that weight class or not. That way fighters show up at their best rather than being drained still from what you just put your body through.
btw anyone else see the size difference between Till and Woodley?? WTF?? Till isn't just taller than Woodley he's almost as thick..it's ridiculous..Till should %100 be at least fighting at 185lbs and even then he'd be a good sized middleweight..why a guy that walks around at over 200lbs is fighting guys at 170lbs makes little sense to me..I'd like to see guys of similar size and skill fight each other as opposed to a guy having such an advantage in just size and/or strength..
There is a simple answer. 2 days before the fight, you get the pre fight weight. That weight is also taken again exactly before stepping in the ring. Fighters have to pass both tests.
Rogan & Cruz weren't saying that missing weight without consequences is sanctioned cheating(there are consequences), they were talking about being able to add back weight after weigh-ins. For example you can weigh 175 during the weigh-ins, but come fight time you can weigh 185. The point is that weigh-ins should be held before(hours) the fight.
chael kinda missed the point i don't think they meant necessarily missing weight to win a fight, i think rogan and them meant the fact some people can cut SOOOO much weight and blow up and be 20 30 lbs bigger than their opponent, that is a bigger advantage than PED's
Chance Jolivette yes, but cutting less weight makes it easier to regain the weight through rehydration. For Darren till , cutting 4.5 LESS lbs makes it that much easier to regain it in the follow day with little, to no punishment afterwards.
1:30 If the "fans" don't care about fighters health and well being and aren't interested in seeing the VERY BEST match ups we possibly can then they aren't really fans because I care about this and I want it to go away
The commission have got to get the exact weight of the fighter as there is a lower weight limit to a fight, just as there is an upper limit. We say a fight is taking place at 205lb, but it isn't, it's taking place between 185-205 (in the UFC). If the fighter weighs in at 184lb, just as they missed weight for being over, in this case, they've missed weight for being under, and missed their contractual obligation to fight at a pre-specified weight.
Rule suggestion Say weigh ins are at 10am. If you miss weight you are given 2 hours to make weight. If you make weight by the 2 hour mark you can still fight but you lose 25% of your original payout. If you miss weight after 2 hours then the other fighter has the choice of if they want to fight or not. If they accept the fighter that made weight receives 100% of their original payout plus 30% of the other fighter's original payout. The overweight fighter gets 50% and the UFC receives the other 20% to cover the potential loss of reputation and future revenue. If a fighter misses weight twice at the same weight class they are banned from that weight class (and lower weight classes) for at least a year. There's no ban on moving up a weightclass if the UFC still wants to schedule you a fight. If the fighter that made weight refuses to fight they receive 110% of their original payout. The overweight fighter receives nothing. This would be a big move for the UFC. It would hold them accountable for creating fights where they know both fighters will make weight. This would prove to the fighters and most importantly the fans that the UFC recognizes this issue and is truly invested in fixing it. The risk and reward involved in cutting weight is a cornerstone to the strategy of this sport. If it's controlled too tightly or eliminated all together the UFC would be less competitive and eventually fail
I'm with you Chael. If you think about it, even making weight is cheating cause at the time of the fight you have two contenders that easily fight with the weight of two different weight classes. I'm with you, one hour weight-in and two or three replacements to able the show to continue. No risk for the fighters and everybody fight fresh in his weight class!
Joe wasn't talking about just missing weight, he was talking about weight cutting in general. He was saying that it was unfair that some guys come into the octagon way heavier than others.
Chael picks his camera angle to perfectly show off one of the biggest arms in Oregon.
Sarcastic Genius 8:33 proves that your statement is 100% accurate 💪🏻
Radiation Network
You don’t get the joke, Mr ‘I like to shit on people’
"One of the biggest"?! Are u kidding. It IS the biggest.
Eli Hernandez
Haha indeed. I say one of the biggest because the equal biggest (Chael's left arm) isn't quite as easy to see.
Dana ‘Cucked by Schaub’ White
Right? Guy's a wet blanket.
Damn Joe, exposing the business yet again
Not really exposing if it's been an issue especially after someone else already called it out on national TV.
Brotato Chip woosh.
Lol you beat me to it
i think joe wasnt talking about missing weight but about weightcutting itself
You dont talk about the business! Lmao
Chael ‘I offer to you’ sonnen
That was great. lol
Spencer "I have no original thoughts and instead use an overused meme" Connell
I leave you with this
Spencer Connell shut the fuck up
Spencer Connell lame white people humour
I think Chael miss-interpreted what Joe was saying. He wasn't saying that missing weight is sanctioned cheating. He was saying weight cutting in general is sanctioned cheating; in that I can weigh in at 170, but be 200lb on the day of the fight.
Thiago Alves gains nearly 30 pounds in three hours after UFC on FX 2 weigh ins. 24 hours after weighing 145 pounds, UFC's Diego Sanchez now at 171.2. Many heavy weight fighters have gained back 30 pounds in 24 hours. Even 145 pound Connor gains 25-27 pounds after the weigh in. img.bleacherreport.net/img/article/media_slots/photos/002/517/105/d12b54479d5db99d76bb840f018b054d_crop_exact.jpg?h=533&w=800&q=70&crop_x=center&crop_y=top
Brian Abisdid Darren Till (the catalyst for recent conversations about the topic) weighs in 200-205 lbs come fight night after a full weight cut. He was asked about it and made the claim.
Brian Abisdid Ever heard of Mackenzie 'Big Mac' Dern?
Yeah that’s what I was thinking too I think you’re right
Exactly my thought! JR is an advocate of natural weight divisions, and his argument is that fighters would actually perform better at their natural weight too
Thought the mike shadow was a wet spot. Haha
Roy Overjoy I was about to comment a smart ass remark about having a huge stain but I figured I'd better scan the comments before I made an idiot of myself. Glad u noticed it haha
i also noticed that, looked like he spilled his drink at first, lol
Roy Overjoy
mic= microphone
mike= a person
Same here, thought this was post workout Chael
Just realised lol
Till got a title fight out of missing weight so he will make that 30% back that he lost.
Till has missed weight in his last 2 fights and then given a title shot, what a joke. Even if he makes weight, by the time of the fight hes back up to 90kg
he made weight for the cerrone fight
Majidur Rahman if he makes weight this time lol
Absolutely correct. Till misses weight, beats Thomson by cheating, and gets punished by getting a title fight against Woodley. Really?
I love till, he’s my favourite fighter but he can’t miss weight win via split decision and then get a title shot
We don't deserve Uncle Chael.
Rammel Ceri But we sure as shit are glad that we have him!
You do deserve him you are worthy
The weight cutting is so extreme in the UFC that the weight divisions don't mean as much. Conor probably walks around at 175+, yet captured his first title at 145. Till walks around at 210+ and is fighting for the title at 170. Even if Till makes weight, isn't that still ridiculous? Dude is big as Randy Coture when he was the fucking heavyweight champ and he's fighting at welterweight. That devalues the entire structure of champions, imo.
Fredrick Miller Thing is they don't even 'make weight' really, it's a charade. Weighing someone after they've depleted almost all water and chyme from their system is like charging someone for 5lbs worth of fruits and then squeezing out the juice before giving it to them. It's infuriatingly dishonest.
Conor does not walk around that heavy, even after the 4 month camp for his second fight with Diaz he only weighed in at 168lbs. His walk around is most likely 165lbs.
He told Floyd he was heavy but that was clearly an intimidation tactic.
Why Conor? Why isn't anyone mentioning khabib. Joe rogan had even said he heard from Dc That he's 200 lb almost walking around. He's training with heavyweights. It's to be a bigger guy in a smaller division. Conor at 145 he looked rough against Mendes.
Rumble used to cut down to 170. That was the freakiest.
170lbs and above is the problem. Should have in between weight division. 170 to 185 is big a gap as to 185 to 205 and the heavyweight weight allowance is to big at 206 to 265. Many fighter are in between those weight. And the fact that UFC even allowed to you to fight for the Championship after winning a fight even if you are above the weight limit.
Look, I like Darren Till a lot. But, what I thought was telling, when he missed weight against Wonderboy Thompson, Thompson's camp said just make 185 (on fight night). And Till's camp responded that he couldn't do that and they had to negotiate up to 188. So, basically, Thompson said just stay under another weight class limit. 185 is a middle weight!! At that point you are not a welter weight.
He had a family issue appatently.
wiremessiah I know that. The original limit was 185 and Till couldn't do it.
Agreed. It’s bullshit
Exactly, it's absurd. And it's the promotion's fault for giving fighters a day and a half to recover after shedding water and chyme to appear a weight that they're not. They're green-lighting this cheating behaviour, practically even encouraging it. You should step in the cage the weight that your weight-class says you are.
Wrestler- Kickboxer he doesn't give a fuck about his family, apparently.
If a fighter misses weight, he should have to fight in the higher weight class for his next fight or two.
Ya they should get one chance to miss weight “ things could of happened behind the scene “ but if they miss weight again I agree they should have to fight up a weight class
Tom Foolery I don't think it should be a fight or two, I think if you miss twice or thrice in a few matches then you move up, a "this is your weight class now, you can go up but not down" type of situation.
Tom Foolery facts
There are way too many variables for that.
It's dangerous though as this could cause deaths as some fighters know that to make it big in the UFC they must fight at a lower weight class and therefore could go to extreme methods to cut that weight; this is one of the reasons this makes this issue very hard to change imo.
This channel is no question, the best mma channel.
no doubt
Christian Ruiz He is a close second. Because of how high quality his videos are, he doesn’t post as much as I would like.
Personally I like MMA World. But comparing that to this is kind of apples to oranges.
Sleepless Specter Alpaca Thesauras is a completely different type of MMA channel, it's more about the psychology of it, but for me it's right there with Chael Sonnen.
Jacob Bradshaw That’s a good one too. Psychology of the sport is some of the most interesting aspects.
Weight cutting in North America will only change when someone dies. One FC has the best method of this.
As a casual fan turned hardcore fan, I can say there is definitely a disconnect. Before I really got into the sport and started following fighters, watching interviews, and before I started training in and learning the sport I thought the weight classes were either their weight or at most 10 pounds off their weight. I never understood that most light weights were damn near middle weights at their natural weight. It's hard to imagine, even wrestling in high school I was only 5 or 6 at most from my weight class, most of the time a quick run with a trash bag would work, and on a good week stripping down naked was all I needed. It's really hard to imagine a person dropping 30 pounds in a month.
or just do hydration tests like OneFC does... lol
Weight classes do NOT exist in the UFC. Sanctions are NOT meaningful.
The following rule needs to be instituted immediately. Fighters that make weight should have full authority to reject any opponent that doesn't make weight and those who miss weight are suspended for one year.
Also, if you miss weight you cannot win a fight as you are cheating.
Not only does the current weight class system NOT allow even matched opponents to fight, but it is barbaric and possibly deadly.
Cutting weight can hurt athletes so much that they need medication and hospitalization to recover.
Also, fighters who can cut a lot of weight easily for whatever reason, have a tremendous advantage.
Please read on.
UFC weight classes are truly non-existent. Fighters should have to make weight upon entering the octagon. Today, a fighter can "make weight" but enter the octagon 20 or 30 pounds heavier at fight time? Ridiculous and unfair. Having hydration testing AND weigh-ins at fight time is the best way to protect fighter's health and make the sport truly respectable and with real competition amongst fighters of the same weight.
Weight classes do NOT exist.
I wish you would use your influence to spearhead a movement to bring true weight classes to the UFC.
free man thanks very much. They really need to tighten this up.
shoah u stfu
ad hominem trash
Chris Whalen, CPA the fact that you used “wait” instead of “weight” disgusts me
funny thing, the ufc used to be an open tournament without weight classes. it was crazy.
weight cutting ruins the sport like Ortega who looked like a Welterweight fighting Frankie who is a natural 145 its stupid and makes weightclasses useless
Ortega eats the same Mexican meat as Canelo, thats why.
Eli Hernandez lol stfu
Ortega looked like a welterweight? Hes only 5'8 and skinny. Are u blind or yes? He would be small if he fights in the lightweight division, if not, not more than average lightweights
Brian Abisdid Ortega admitted he was over 165 lbs on fight night.
Marcellino Sananto its not bitching I want a better product where fighter are 100% healthy and weighs the same on fight night. It makes the product better
I think they should either prevent weight-cutting altogether or have people weigh-in on the day of the fight so they can't fully re-hydrate if they cut too much weight.
No serious injury if retards dont cut without time to rehydrate, weigh in an hour or two before a fight should fix it all. Most fighters would just move to their natural weight class and not cut at all.
I think amateurs weigh in an hour before the fight
@@34672rr what serious injury? That's assuming that people would still cut weight. You can't cut much weight if weigh in is an hour before the fight. It's MMA competition everything is risky and could lead to serious injury.
I read books with Chael's voice in my head; it really livens up studying.
Take 50% if they missed weight
75%
100% ... And I'm not just lamely continuing the pattern for humor's sake. The penalty should be ruthless.
50% is plenty if it's something crazy like 4lb + fights off and other person gets his show money
fuck it death sentence to all who miss weight
fake fake 100% is too much because they still fought and they still need to eat. Maybe 50-60%
I agree with Joe, even to the point as to how ONE FC does weigh ins. Your weight class is your walk around weight. Meaning Till would be a light heavyweight.
morelli tech yea it would be better maybe add a few more weght class too
Lol he definitely wouldn’t go up to light heavyweight. All these fighters that stick around in the lower weight classes so they can have a physical advantage.
Problem is weight fluctuates in and out of camp some guys pack on the body fat. Hydration testing and testing bodyfat is best. If I guy out of a fight walks around at 25% body fat fully hydrated he can drop to as low as 5% body fat, how ever much that weight is. But can't go below that. So the only weigh to cut is to lose body fat not extreme dehydration
They'd have to make a superheavyweight class for the Derrick Lewis and Brock Lesnar type fighters who struggle making 265. That would actually be good - it would make it safer to move the oversized LHWs to HW, making it safe to move the oversized MWs to LHW, and so on and so forth
Have weight classes every 10lbs, hydration tests throughout the year, you get assigned to the weight class you’re supposed to be in.
Chael “So Joe Rogan Came Out” Sonnen
It’s funny his shirt looks like he spilled something on it 😂but it’s just the shadow of the microphone 🎤
Chael is talking to a cardboard cut-out of himself
Love the Amateur wrestling lectures UncleChael.
Schlitz fuck off back to runescape nerd
Chael, if you're looking for an answer, ONE FC figured some of it out. Same day weigh-ins with hydration tests. Joe did mention some of it.
1. Multi-stage weigh-ins, including same day weigh-ins, combined with hydration tests.
2. The addition of a couple of new weight classes.
3. If you miss weight or hydration, you don't fight and you don't get paid. Period.
That's pretty much it.
If you come into the Octagon weighing heavier than you did on the scale it is cheating.
I understand the strategy of wanting to fight an opponent who weighs less but if that results in you weighing 15, 20, 25lbs heavier than your opponent come the actual time to Fight that's not fair.
The UFC and/or the Commission should of fixed this issue years ago just based on the fact it isn't good for the health of the Fighters.
If they cracked down properly, the only real losers would be the huge LHWs who would be forced up to heavyweight. I think fighters would be fine with weight cut restrictions moving them up a class or two - the only deterrent I see is fighters stopping their cuts, only to be moved to a heavier class with fighters who are still cutting crazy weight.
For example, Till may be a true LHW if he stopped cutting so much, but he would not be in the LHW Division with true LHWs. He'd be stepping into the Octagon at 210 or so, against fighters stepping in at 230-260. Jones steps in at about 225-230 and he's skinny af for the division. Till would get brutalized, unless more than half the competition at LHW was forced up to HW. Same deal for Romero. The cut gets harder with age, but I think 185 is his peak shape for size and athleticism. At 205 he just doesn't stand out enough.
@@Kabra2012 would just need to rework the weight class, 135, 145, 155, 165, 175, 185, 205, 225, maybe more in the middle, 265 and no limit ''super heavy weight''
I've been saying for years that the fighters should weigh in day of the fight, if not an hour before the fight. These fighters are ruining their health and not fighting in the weight classes they should be.
Powerlifter are weighed after their last lift when relevant.
Fighters should be weighed fight night.
This man always looking supremely relaxed
One of these days ima pull up one of these vids of him fully reclined off-camera
weight cut problem solved:
18 hours weigh ins. if they are over weight give them unlimited time until they step in the octagon to make weight but they most make weight or not fight no over weights excepted
it gives the on weight fighter more hours to hydrate while the other will still be running and using energy to make weight. so when fight time comes the on weight fighter will have the adv. because he would have 5-7 extra hours of hydration plus the other fighter will have 5-7 extra hours of energy exertion
Michael Burckhardt yep, added incentive, to not fuck around.
Yeah as per the above comment, that isn't going to work from a safety point of view, which is why weigh ins were moved back to the previous morning in the first place. Any 'solution' to the weight cutting problem has to be safe for the fighters AND stop them cutting huge amounts of weight. Yours does neither.
18 hour weigh ins would get people killed.
Why did this conversation lose steam after 2018? This is all still accurate and important to address
PRIDE i miss you so much. Bring back the steroid, catch weight fight and soccer kicks please.
I miss the soccer kicks!!!
My solution to weight cutting problem in MMA. Right now there's 8 divisions for men in the UFC. 125,135,145,155,170,185,205,265. What I propose is 10 divisions. 135,145,155,165,175,185,200,220,240,unlimited. Weigh ins 10 days before the fight, 5 days before the fight, 1 day before the fight and 1 hour before your fight. Do the hydration test as ONE FC is doing. You walk 155>optimal shape you probably weigh about 150>fight at 145. When the last weigh in is done (1 hour before the fight) you shouldn't be allowed to be heavier than 150.0 pounds. If you are even 1 pound heavier the half of the difference of the divisions (145-155 is 150) you are fined 10% for every pound meaning if you come in at 152 for 145 pound fight you are fined 20% of your purse. Be heavier than 150 two times in a row the promotion should force you to move up a weight class.
That's not sweat on his shirt.
yoyomon001 it’s the mic shadow
The reasons why commissions want to know the exact weight is because the fines they Levy is based off how much you missed the weight by
Does the 20% forfeit go the other fighter?
Jesse Nixon good question
Pretty sure it does
Should go to in a pool to pay for fighters health care
Jesse Nixon yup
Its 30% and yes it does
Thanks Chael, I enjoy your straight up way of talking about this stuff.
The use of the term crusader with Cruz was an amazing world play. Chael is pretty good with words have it to give it to him.
One concern too, for fighter health is the greater susceptibility to head trauma and concussion that cutting creates. The ONE FC way is the best solution along with possibly adding weight classes for the bigger gaps of more than ten pounds. On point Chael.
Till walks around over 220 lbs , he is cheating ,he is the biggest welterweight in history and cuts over 25% of his body weight tk be bigger than everyone ! That's cheating , weight classes mean same size vs same size and the skills separate the fighters , but till wins based off of size ! He should be 185 or 205 lb fighter !
NUFCIvan why don't you go listen to tills on words !! He has said many times he walks around over 220 and is about 220 on fight day, go investigate a little you dumb fuck
NUFCIvan if you think till is 200 pounds you're smoking Crack like constantly not just a crackhead but smoke it like it's weed ! Fucking moron
Thing is Till is just bloody honest about it.like wiremessiah said, other top fighters do it.
Txig777 everyone he mentioned cuts 40 pounds ,that seems to be the normal , but till cuts over 50 the most in the ufc period and is a foot taller than everyone at 170 I mean ,he is a 185-205 fighter ,using weight to cheat is all , 2 people with the same skill levels , 1 is 20 pounds heavier ,taller,longer,wider than the other guy , the bigger guy wins everytime unless he gasses from being so big
michael gabbard but if you're going to call him a cheater, then same goes for thr rest. They should all be fighting in a different division
I love Chael's POV. He's been there, done that and he has a non-meathead perspective. It's refreshing.
The fact that Till gets rewarded with a title-shot after missing weight, is made worse by the fact that he was gifted the hometown decision over Wonderboy in a fight he probably lost 4 rounds to 1.
Jeremiah Hosea 4 rounds to one😂do you know anything about mma?it was a close fight but 4 to 1😂
jack leroy Matt Sera said Wonderboy won. Colby Covington said Wonderboy won. What was it 3 to 2? The only round Till won was when he scored the knock down. I've been watching UFC since UFC 1. Who the fook are you!?
+Jeremiah Hosea Obviously Serra would back wonderboy and that's just Colby being Colby
3:09 "I haven't checked that I don't want to hear about it if I'm wrong" Yep that statement pretty much sums up Chaels entire career as a Podcaster.
Conor cuts 30 lb before every fight because he's scared to pick on someone his own size
Why did he fight at 170 on two weeks notice then? The heaviest he is is 168, and he fights at 155 now so what’s the problem?
Just sayin
Your Connor hate is effecting your judgement, assess yourself.
Connor is pretty much at his natural weight if he's fighting at 155, I'm the same height as him, I workout and the heaviest I've been was 170... I'm usually 155 and I'm pretty good at that size, at 145 I'd be lean, but the point of this video wasn't who's fighting at what division, the point was that there are fighters who come in at lets say 170 on the weigh ins, and the next day they top at 200... That's whole two divisions...
Conor fought at 155 ONCE and the dude was half his size
Joe Rogan has spoke out multiple times, UFC should adopt the one fc rules and have hydration tests after weight cutting to force everyone to fight at their natural weight classes
Only way significant changes will be made to the punishment handed out to fighters for missing weight is if we get a situation where a fighter gets hurt by someone who missed the weight and ends up suing the fighter, commission, organisation and promoter. A fighter missing weight should not just get a fine they should be disqualified and removed from the fight as they are trying to cheat.
I think Joe meant that if fighters cut to 170 for example, and the moment they step in the octagon they are 200lbs +. The Advantage the fighters have when doing so should be ‘illegal’.
Great job looking for solutions and admitting your current limitations on a solution.
Much respect.
Chael constantly looking for inspiration in the upper left corner of the room 🤣
Chael is the king of red tape breakdowns.
I think the one hour weigh in is the best way to do it. Totally agree with you on that. It would literally fix EVERYTING that is going wrong with that aspect of the sport.
I can't be sure about every day but I know for a FACT that Mr. Chael Sonnen every month produces AT LEAST 1 video about weight cutting.
because its part of the show chael and the show must go on!
A buddy of mine used to be a wrestler, and I swear I used to think the exact same thing. The fact that you have these guys who weigh 15 pounds over the weight limit, and he'll just cease drinking anything for a day and a half and wear plastic bags and go jogging in the middle of summer just to try and cut weight, and then the second weigh-in is over they start guzzling water like it's going to be gone tomorrow. It is cheating, in my opinion it's incredibly dishonest, and in my opinion that shows you don't have that much confidence in your own abilities. I never liked it.
people only do it to starch through smaller guys, but remember Conor did it to the featherweight. that dude looked awful when he made 145. conor would not be a star if he didn't spark out all the smaller guys! weight cutting needs to be sorted out!
They do it to protect the card. They don’t want to have to cancel fights right before the ppv and possibly have to do partial refunds or deal with pissed fans.
Yes weight cutting is ruining fights ,they should weigh them before the fight ,
When Chael hadn’t uploaded in 5 days so you go to old podcasts ❤️🔥
My question is, Is it necessary to use the old style scales that has the little slide weight on it? Are they more accurate or is it just traditional?
Massively dehydrating ones body right before stepping in an octagon to receive possible head trauma is not the ideal situation. Obviously many fighters don't fight at 100% but letting the rest and hydrate before competing would be better for fighters and fans.
Joe was talking about weight cutting as a whole, not just missing weight. The point of weight classes is that fighters of the same weight will fight each other, so your weight at weigh-ins should be the same as fight night. The problem is that fighters who are naturally better at cutting water weight have an advantage because they're bigger in the ring. Why should anything other than fighting ability be a factor in the sport of fighting? It's so easy to eliminate weight cutting completely: just test for hydration levels at weigh ins, and if you're dehydrated, you can't win a title, your next two fights must be at the next weight class up, and your opponent can refuse to fight you or take half of your purse for himself.
Edit: removed an accidental question mark
Yes 1 hour weigh in is the solution
If so how is there going to be a champion/belt
6:40 Could someone please explain this to me? Or point me to where Chael Sonnen (or someone else equally qualified) discussed this?
My interest in this is as a fan, whom would rather see two guys who are fit at say middleweight NOT go down to light-middleweight (which seems to be the norm) but rather see those fight at (not light) middleweight, where they are both at their best physical shape.
I love how Chael sonnen talks
The relevant question for me is WHY does the UFC ALLOW this "sanctioned cheating" to continue almost unabated??? Is it really ALL about their bottom line, i.e., canceling the fight would cost them in future rev? Also, Chael, can you do a break down of HOW missing weight benefits the cheater? I know there are theories and suppositions by the ton but actual BENEFIT to the fighter facts? Please enlighten us.
Bring back Chael talking beside a fireplace.
Chael dropping Rogans name again. Not tacky at all.
Joe was talking about cutting weight not missing weight. I think we need a 1 hour weigh in
Love the Chael " I offer to u " Sonnen comment! Pissed myself laughing cause it's so true! Love your work Chael, u should tak over from Dana, I think u would do a great job!
I agree with that harsh wrestling style punishment. And I'd argue that there HAS to be a One FC style hydration weigh in, if only to balance the scales and stop people from either near dying due to weight cuts or coming in much heavier!
Than you chael, your perspective is always very entertaining.
I don't always agree with what you have to say. Defiantly though, we need you!
1 hour before fight weigh in plus body water percentage should do it right? Fighters can't fight dehydrated if there is a minimum percentage
Its so true. No one actually fights at a legal weight
Back in my high school wrestling days I always made weight, even when I had to drop the drawers
Surprised but glad that Chael agrees. Mucho love Chael. Best of luck on the fight with Fedor :)
I've been saying this shit since the late 90s about boxing.. Dom wasn't the first and neither was I.. you should fight at your natural weight.. multiple weigh ins should be required 3months out leading up to a fight.. if you weigh 200 and want to fight at 170, you must maintain 170 for 3 months.. make them keep it real..
Real fans are not down with missing weight and then fighting and winning.
I'm not sure if you heard the podcast, but Rogan took things a bit further. He didn't say missing weight was sanctioned cheating, he said cutting weight at all is sanction cheating. What he's referring are the fighters that fight significantly below their normal walking weight and balloon up after either making or missing weight.
He references Darren Till who fights at 170 but walks into the cage well over 200 lbs. He also references the health disadvantages for such actions as well as Japanese weight cutting rules that have seemingly eliminated the issue.
Cutting weight the week before a fight then putting it back on to be heavier than your opponent is cheating. Fight at the weight you walk around at. Valentina Shevchenko had to put on weight to fight at 135. True warrior.
They need to keep track of weight during fight week and have rules implemented to decide whether someone is fit to compete in that weight class or not. That way fighters show up at their best rather than being drained still from what you just put your body through.
God damn I would be forever thankful if I got to contribute and sit next to Chael during one of his podcasts
btw anyone else see the size difference between Till and Woodley?? WTF?? Till isn't just taller than Woodley he's almost as thick..it's ridiculous..Till should %100 be at least fighting at 185lbs and even then he'd be a good sized middleweight..why a guy that walks around at over 200lbs is fighting guys at 170lbs makes little sense to me..I'd like to see guys of similar size and skill fight each other as opposed to a guy having such an advantage in just size and/or strength..
something i have always wondered: how mutch are you alowed to be under the max weight?
There is a simple answer. 2 days before the fight, you get the pre fight weight. That weight is also taken again exactly before stepping in the ring. Fighters have to pass both tests.
Rogan & Cruz weren't saying that missing weight without consequences is sanctioned cheating(there are consequences), they were talking about being able to add back weight after weigh-ins. For example you can weigh 175 during the weigh-ins, but come fight time you can weigh 185. The point is that weigh-ins should be held before(hours) the fight.
chael kinda missed the point i don't think they meant necessarily missing weight to win a fight, i think rogan and them meant the fact some people can cut SOOOO much weight and blow up and be 20 30 lbs bigger than their opponent, that is a bigger advantage than PED's
Chance Jolivette yes, but cutting less weight makes it easier to regain the weight through rehydration. For Darren till , cutting 4.5 LESS lbs makes it that much easier to regain it in the follow day with little, to no punishment afterwards.
The opponent gets a free punch for every pound you are over weight .
1:30 If the "fans" don't care about fighters health and well being and aren't interested in seeing the VERY BEST match ups we possibly can then they aren't really fans because I care about this and I want it to go away
The commission have got to get the exact weight of the fighter as there is a lower weight limit to a fight, just as there is an upper limit. We say a fight is taking place at 205lb, but it isn't, it's taking place between 185-205 (in the UFC). If the fighter weighs in at 184lb, just as they missed weight for being over, in this case, they've missed weight for being under, and missed their contractual obligation to fight at a pre-specified weight.
Moicano looked huge next to Cub.. definite advantage
Rule suggestion
Say weigh ins are at 10am. If you miss weight you are given 2 hours to make weight.
If you make weight by the 2 hour mark you can still fight but you lose 25% of your original payout.
If you miss weight after 2 hours then the other fighter has the choice of if they want to fight or not. If they accept the fighter that made weight receives 100% of their original payout plus 30% of the other fighter's original payout.
The overweight fighter gets 50% and the UFC receives the other 20% to cover the potential loss of reputation and future revenue.
If a fighter misses weight twice at the same weight class they are banned from that weight class (and lower weight classes) for at least a year. There's no ban on moving up a weightclass if the UFC still wants to schedule you a fight.
If the fighter that made weight refuses to fight they receive 110% of their original payout. The overweight fighter receives nothing. This would be a big move for the UFC. It would hold them accountable for creating fights where they know both fighters will make weight. This would prove to the fighters and most importantly the fans that the UFC recognizes this issue and is truly invested in fixing it.
The risk and reward involved in cutting weight is a cornerstone to the strategy of this sport. If it's controlled too tightly or eliminated all together the UFC would be less competitive and eventually fail
The spider in the corner of the room must be homding the cue cards
I don't ever recall Chael missing weight....ever.
I'm with you Chael. If you think about it, even making weight is cheating cause at the time of the fight you have two contenders that easily fight with the weight of two different weight classes. I'm with you, one hour weight-in and two or three replacements to able the show to continue. No risk for the fighters and everybody fight fresh in his weight class!
*It can be cured by having only on weigh in and that too, just before the fight. If you miss, you miss.*
I fucking love the 1 hour weigh-in idea.
This is the truth right here.
Joe wasn't talking about just missing weight, he was talking about weight cutting in general. He was saying that it was unfair that some guys come into the octagon way heavier than others.