He's saying there would competing private armies for the territory and thinks that's a good thing. The word for competing armies in the same territory is WAR
Na I think he was saying he wants people to be able to claim residency in any state no matter where he lives. Like he would be in Florida but live by California laws which’s is insane
And he seems unaware of the fact that individual armies competing for territory has already happened in history and have been some extremely violent times.
I can see it now. Libertarian utopia. House burning down, fire fighters come: You: Please save my children from the burning building! Fire fighter: OK, first we'll have to run your credit, sign here, here, initial there, sign here.
There is a good novel called "Jennifer Government" where people take on the company name as their last name (so like John Nike for example), all government services run on private donations from the victims of crimes, the NRA has basically become a private military, before an ambulance will be dispatched you must provide a valid credit card number, people get companies they are loyal to tattooed on themselves and brawl with people who support opposing companies and insider trading is more or less common practice for the rich. Great dystopian novel that really shows how horrible a completely free market would operate, worth a read.
_"you're saying like: 'I am floating in the middle of the sky!' and you don't realize you're standing on a building."_ It was at this moment that Sam Seder created the perfect analogy to Libertarian counter-factuals.
I just don't like being pressured to appreciate violent terrorist monsters for stealing my money and then using that money to buy me a shitty gift every now and then
I was a libertarian anarchist for awhile and I tried like this guy to square the circle, but it just does not make sense and stands on such a weak foundation.
@Dara Marc Sasmaz "Anarchism in reality means "opposition to any form of hierarchy and authority in favor of democracy on every level of society"" false, not in favor of democracy. anarchism has no rulers, that would be a form of hierarchy/authority. listen to your self defeating argument. democracy =/ egualitarian society.
I worked through this guy's utopia within 1 day when I was in 5th Grade. Whenever I reassessed, I came to more or less the same conclusion: libertarian fantasylands suck.
@@austin5944 Why would they war with each other? Governments that have conflicts could have their disagreements adjudicated by unbiased private arbitrators. You trust your current government to always rule in favor of the person who is innocent?
@@austin5944 That's why we need to stop letting the world be ruled by capital. You're criticizing the world we have now . Monopoly government licensing and favorable professional regulations give privileges to business that wouldn't exist in a world with no state and no taxation
Sorry policeman, you can't give me a ticket for speeding over 20 MPH beyond the limit, because I subscribe to government B which allows any speed in a vehicle as long as I personally think it is safe. And well. I think it was safe and you have no jurisdiction over me since you are obviously a Government A cop. LOL!
Here is Me. I have chosen voluntarily to be governed by an entity that, just for the sake of argument, has exactly the same laws as the present-day United States. My neighbour has chosen to be governed by an entity that allows its members to shoot anyone they feel threatened by. My neighbour just shot me and took my house. Which set of voluntary laws have been violated?
Libertarians are born on 3rd base while advocating for volunteerism and no government. While that is possible on a remote island living in conditions before the Enlightenment. The minute the trade leaves your island, your town, your city, it becomes more problematic. And I like vaccines, clean safe water, breathable air . . . This utopian bubble is another example of abandoning critical thinking.
AtheistRex this particular caller represents libertarians the way the United States represents freedom. "you're free, go do whatever you want. but first, about that freedom..."
The first lesson I got from my Economy teacher at uni was: the free market will solve all but there is a problem, free markets are ideal constructions that have no application in the real world as all market players have unequal power due to their circumstances and human nature.
It always goes the same way, with almost identical talking points. The lemmings keep calling him thinking they're going to get one on Seder with the same tired takes.
+SolarisLunaran "Socialists need to leave and go anyone else in the world. Leave this country alone and let libertarians make it great." Hahahahahahahahahahahaha! No other response necessary to that bit of insanity. "Corporate bodies are empowered by government. Gov't gives them special privileges and tax breaks. They wouldn't amass power." This is almost a hilarious as the first comment. Forget for a moment that the original design of the corporate charter has almost nothing to do with the current corporate entity. That corporations have amassed power to the extent that some have is due to govt enabling is something you have to actually prove, otherwise, it is a non sequitur. All businesses get "privileges" and "tax breaks" but libertarians have nothing to say about that fact. Koch Industries is not incorporated so their wealth is the result of their ingenuity alone, whereas Walmart Inc and Standard Oil owe their wealth to the govt? Hahaha! Priceless libertarian thinking at work. "Competition would keep everyone in check." Right. Now all you need to do is get everyone agree to compete and not grow too big so that they corner markets and begin to monopolize. Hahahaha! More priceless bullshit. Businesses are doing everything than can to avoid competition. It's the govt that should be enabling competition through anti trust law. As it is, the laws exist, but they're routinely ignored by both business and regulators. This is because govt (i.e. the people) don't want anti trust enforced or because business has captured govt to the point where it calls the shots? "People choose to buy what they want. If you don't like to buy something from a big scary corporation then don't buy from them. People are not stupid." In fact, some people are stupid, you, for instance. Others have low or bad information and or are too poor to CHOOSE what to buy or from whom to buy it. "Sam assumes that people are stupid, just like most progressives. He believes people are stupid and can't be trusted." Stupidity and trust are very different things. Perhaps not in your case. We already know the extent to which people can be trusted to live up to their principles. Ever read any game theory, such as the "prisoner's dilemma"? People mostly act based on incentives and what they (think they) know. Trust but verify. "A libertarian has faith in humanity." Far from it. You can only live in a society where everyone thinks just as you do. That'd what voluntary societies are, little tribes of homogeneity. It's progressives that trust "humanity" as evidenced through our belief in democracy. We want to live in a pluralistic society, not just our own little bubbles. We even allow democracy haters, like you, to use the democratic process to try to dismantle it. We believe people are not stupid enough to fall for such childish nonsense. "Sad little boy you are Sam." So much for libertarian tolerance for the individual that you pride yourselves on. Given that you sound like a 12 year old with a hard on for ignorance, I wouldn't call anyone "little boy."
I'd argue that we have a collective responsibility to each other and that it's the libertarian rejection of that idea that stops me from fully accepting the ideology. No man is an island. On the surface, libertarianism appears to be the ideology of real freedom for people [and it does have a lot of validity]. However, the way in which the kind of anti-government rhetoric I've heard from libertarins seems to align with the anti-regulation rhetoric of corporations is troubling. :)
I remember having a conversation with an acquaintance back in about January-February of 2013 about Libertarianism and I was immediately alarmed by its logic and the harm that would follow it were ever implemented in our society. However at that time I wasn't as much into politics or theory so I didn't quite know how to respond to him nor really hold my own in political discussions in general. I've come a very long way since then but at the time I had looked up Libertarian debates, and this exact video was the very first one I clicked on. Then I clicked another one from MR, and another, and another, and then I started watching the entire show. At that point, I got into Secular Talk later on, and David Pakman, then much later came TMBS (RIP Michael) and I'm a loyal follower to MR. I love to go back and revisit the old Libertarian debates every now and then, they're so much fun and entertaining. Given the times we're living in currently, I've been visiting these old Libertarian debates more frequently. For a while Majority Report had a recession of Libertarian debates but thankfully a few have sprung up again, so I look to the present and the past. I've also gotten my friend into leftist channels from Sam's Libertarian debates as well and pushed him from apolitical to leftist. Thanks, MR!
9:07 years later, would like to know what the callers position (or what it would've been in 2012) on all the protests, looting etc that's happening now. i wonder if he'd defend it or if his position would change based on the race of who's rebelling against the government
Wouldnt choosing your government without moving require never leaving your property? What if your neighbor chooses a government that has policies that are dangerous towards you
I’m binge watching these libertarian debates and I’m amazed at the fantasy world libertarians live in. The biggest delusion that I see is that they think they’re not half baked conservatives.
It's more than just the internet. The government helps bridge the gap between what is possible and what is profitable. The government helps fund research on medical techniques that might save the callers life at one point.
Caller says "I'm living in my Libertarian Utopia right now in my living room." problem is buddy someone can come into you living room and kill you take your stuff, no police to stop them. And then they are living in THEIR own private Libertarian Utopia over your corpse and belongings. That movie Mortal Engines? That's Libertarian Utopia
Australia has universal public health system for all citizens and permanent residents.. private health is optional and most people do not need it. I also lived in Denmark were the private health tends to zero. The public system is great and they would kill you if you tried to make it private. Your data istuned to justify your viewpoint. Libertarian absolutism ....
If you wanna see what Anarcho/Capitalism looks like - take a look at the world order. Basically no real rule of law, no functional government to speak of, no single currency. And what makes you think communes trading under free association would be any different from countries trading under free association? Basically you'd transpose the chaos of the international order onto the national order.
And there is no perfect competition because of a thing called the elasticity of demand and offer....if I recall my economy lesson well. If I am a baker and can hold out longer from selling my bred than my clients from not eating it I win as I demonstrated I have more power over the market.
"The US government should allow for competitors in the same territory" By this logic, should I be able to build a new Amazon-like service within an Amazon warehouse? Or a new bank from within my local bank?
gee I want that world,no wars & no crime. Sounds like he lives in my fantasy world, & I ride a unicorn, great place to live, wish it was real, NEVER HAPPENING
That last point... ROFL "There should be competition... different countries on the same territory.." Omfg.... Afaik that's called war!!! I can't stop laughing.....
The Caller is in a libertarian utopia? did the government not subsidize the utility companies for his water, electricity, internet, phone, etc? Does this guy seriously believe he lives according to his own will?
Sam you made yourself look ridiculous when you got huffy and emotional while talking to this guy who was perfectly calm and polite. It was really frustrating, actually.
I'd love Sam to ask a Libertarian if they would deregulate driving rules and regs, Dereg the Highway Code and rules of the road. If they say No, ask why they hate freedom and why they want a big brother telling them where and when they can drive. If they say Yes, Ask them to explain why rules and regulations work for driving and roads but don’t for buildings/utilities/finance etc.....
Here are some actual meanings to political words- Liberal=wanting rapid change, conservative=slow or no change, left wing=socialism or communism, right wing=capitalism or fascism, libertarian=minimal intrusion on regular peoples lives by government aka maximum freedom for the people
Well that's a great accomplishment for James J. Hill, but as a regular traveler I'd much rather have economically feasible and reliable trains that span the whole country than unregulated ones that only travel between a few states. On that note, I also prefer our interstate highway system and roads on every street to roads beginning and ending at points where the companies deem the most profitable, having no obligation to take care of them, and not even constructing at all in more rural areas.
Don’t worry in libertarians fantasy land corporations will take care of these roads. In no way will they gouge the people to ride on them or try to stop competitors from using them causing competitors to either build random roadways or fight to get on others . Yeah that will end well
This is why it's hard to have a conversation with libertarians because they don't live in reality and they seem to be completely unaware of the world around them. I appreciate what they are trying to say about people thinking for themselves and not needing a government to regulate their lives and their business. The trouble is that we tried that shit about 100 years ago and we had children working and dying in coal mines and we had businesses that proudly discriminated against black people.
We do have that right. Last time I got my license revoked it was because they counted more than 7 red lights I ran in a single weekend. Not because of income tax reasons.
Aspiring to be better than what we are, is what drives us to grow and _become_ better than what we _were,_ so aspiring to universal peace, whilst unlikely it will ever succeed, will lead to longer and longer periods of _almost universal_ peace.
I wonder how that would work.. _"Sorry, Officer. I know you pulled me over for speeding, but under the laws I subscribe to on RUclips, the speed limit is 185."_
The big difference here is that corporations always have profit as their number one motive, while the government's number one priority is (as far as a good government goes) looking out for the people. Without government, if there even were roads, I can assure you they would be expensive as hell to use.
Libertarians want to privatize the roads and have those who own them make rules of the road. This way people would be able to choose and, theoretically, the roads would be safer and better(since private owners tend to look after their property better than public officials take care of public property). Walter Block is especially concerned with this, so you can read what he has to say on the subject, if you're interested.
"When does underwriter labrotories stop/publicly highlight electronics companies dumping manufacturing waste in the river out of town?" Their job is to make sure that your computer doesn't catch fire/explode, leak mercury onto your desk, etc. There are no (independent) environmental organizations certifying the safety of [insert industrial activity here] because of the EPA. Since companies are already forced to pay for the EPA, there isn't enough incentive to justify other organizations.
This was well said. These people are absolutely beset with illusions. Living in one of the most privileged countries in the world, totally cocooned from material conditions of life, living in an individualistic fantasy land, yet as we all know, that if society were to break down, they would all perish very quickly.
Never been tested? We know from Hong Kong and Singapore that Free Trade and low taxes work. We know from Switzerland that peace and free banking work. We know from Australia that private "social security" works. We know from the US that free speech works. We know from Canada that private air traffic control works and so on. History and the modern world are filled with examples of freedom working and libertarianism seeks to expand all those freedoms to everyone, everywhere.
That doesn't matter to a Libertarian. The only metric of a system's success is its profitability. This is also why they think government healthcare is evil: the well-being of all citizens happens to be bad for the bottom line. For-profit healthcare, where every denied treatment puts money into shareholders' pockets, is the preferred method.
Hunger is a physical response (actually part of the environmental stimulus I mentioned), not an instinctual one. If your stomach is empty or you are malnourished or undernourished, you feel hunger. You don't feel hunger because it's destiny, which is what all human nature arguments imply: that man is destined to be bad or good or whatever. There's no such thing. Environment is the most reliable indicator for values and behavior.
I guess the whole point of Libertarianism is to make business accountable to the customers more than to the share-holders. No matter if its government that runs it or if it's owned privately.
It's like what Stephen Colbert said: "It's like wanting a loaf of bread, but only getting half a loaf of bread, so instead you decide to go with the muffin full of broken glass."
In the 72 years of homesteading, there were 1.6 million homesteads granted. But, Between 1892 and 1924, the peak years of immigration to the United States, 22 million immigrants entered the country just through Ellis Island. The math does not work out. Looking at the population growth of cities during the same period, particularly on the east coast, it is easy to see that most immigrants stayed in the cities.
in absolutist terms, youre right. humans dont necessarily need governance to trade. the smaller the group you live in , the easier it is. but a vast majority choose/embrace/endorse it. demonstrating a majority's socio philosophical transition away from this pro governance paradigm, towards something you describe, would be as impressive as anti natalists demonstrating the majority's transition away from a desire to breed.
Hating it is irrelevant. If you got a large group of people together in the same place then either one of two things will happen. 1. they will form some sort of permanent institution to settle arguments and disagreements and set guidelines for doing things for safety and other reasons Or 2. the disagreements and chaos will get so bad that everybody end up killing each other and/or using up all the resources. After that, you and the group of people will never be heard from again.
No it's not theft because you don't have to fund the landlords property if you don't want his services. I'm forced to pay for gov'ts services whether or not I want or use them.
3:14 trying to get to a libertopia, along the way you unshackle the restraints on corporate powers that would exploit you, and you become slaves to those corporations.
If a home builder wants anyone to buy his houses he will have to buy roads to connect to them. Private companies have every incentive to take care of roads they own because then no one will use them. If people want to live far away from civilization then they will have to bear the costs, or connect to a road closest. These problems would be solved voluntarily without force in the equation. If you want roads, talk to your community and ask them to get together and fund it.
Actually a great example, since the only reason the main characters were able to navigate that world successfully was by being exceptional. Everyone else was spit roasted, SOL and JWF
"My point is that companies care about what their (potential) customers think and will make changes to accommodate them." .....or hide the actions that are perceived as bad by the consumer. Thats where watchdogs and regulations serve such a valuable purpose.
"competitors in the same territory" that's what is called armed militias and terrorist organisations he's literally advocating for america to become somalia
I've made a mistake. I watch so many of these libertarian videos that I now get ads aimed at libertarians
donate to rand paul herp derp
danimalcollective1 But Stupon Millennium is the greatest philosopher of all time!
HAHAHAHAHAHA
sorry but this is funny.
Lmao
I get Prager U ads when I click on these videos. ;-)
It's like these callers knowingly walk in for slaughter.
It's not good to laugh at others misfortune but another place I go for a laugh is LBC, James Obrien and the brexit debate. It's all blood and guts.
Isn’t it the best to see people show up to get dunked on
They all think they’re gonna be The Guy Who Finally Did It. Debating Sam’s like trying to pull the sword from the stone.
He's saying there would competing private armies for the territory and thinks that's a good thing. The word for competing armies in the same territory is WAR
coladict I believe in the nonaggression principle! Now where did I leave my mercenary army?
Hahahahaha...so solid.
Na I think he was saying he wants people to be able to claim residency in any state no matter where he lives. Like he would be in Florida but live by California laws which’s is insane
@@tacotikki251 That's what this goof is saying? Talk about a bureaucratic nightmare! This is small government?
And he seems unaware of the fact that individual armies competing for territory has already happened in history and have been some extremely violent times.
I can see it now. Libertarian utopia. House burning down, fire fighters come:
You: Please save my children from the burning building!
Fire fighter: OK, first we'll have to run your credit, sign here, here, initial there, sign here.
bordy217 excatly
There is a good novel called "Jennifer Government" where people take on the company name as their last name (so like John Nike for example), all government services run on private donations from the victims of crimes, the NRA has basically become a private military, before an ambulance will be dispatched you must provide a valid credit card number, people get companies they are loyal to tattooed on themselves and brawl with people who support opposing companies and insider trading is more or less common practice for the rich. Great dystopian novel that really shows how horrible a completely free market would operate, worth a read.
That's how Crassus made his fortune. Bought burning houses off people, put the fire out, did the house up, and sold it back for profit.
@@weefeatures Spoiler alert: the government had to get involved then, too. Lol.
There’s also a $1000 signing fee. Firefighters gotta eat too 🤷🏻♂️
_"you're saying like: 'I am floating in the middle of the sky!' and you don't realize you're standing on a building."_
It was at this moment that Sam Seder created the perfect analogy to Libertarian counter-factuals.
I just don't like being pressured to appreciate violent terrorist monsters for stealing my money and then using that money to buy me a shitty gift every now and then
I was a libertarian anarchist for awhile and I tried like this guy to square the circle, but it just does not make sense and stands on such a weak foundation.
Dara Marc Sasmaz by the original true form of the definition yes that would make him libertarian certainly or at least more libertarian than they are.
American Libertarianism and Anarcho-capitalism are essentially forms of proto-fascism.
Figgy G thanks to the immortal science of Marxism-Leninism,I understand what's going on much better
@Dara Marc Sasmaz "Anarchism in reality means "opposition to any form of hierarchy and authority in favor of democracy on every level of society"" false, not in favor of democracy. anarchism has no rulers, that would be a form of hierarchy/authority. listen to your self defeating argument. democracy =/ egualitarian society.
I worked through this guy's utopia within 1 day when I was in 5th Grade. Whenever I reassessed, I came to more or less the same conclusion: libertarian fantasylands suck.
"We need to replace government with something just like it but much more complicated!"
"We've got to replace government with smaller unelected waring governments" - Libertarians
Lol exactly.
@@austin5944 Why would they war with each other? Governments that have conflicts could have their disagreements adjudicated by unbiased private arbitrators. You trust your current government to always rule in favor of the person who is innocent?
@@joekopsick1540 "unbiased private arbitrators" are not a thing in a world ruled by capital. That's almost oxymoronic.
@@austin5944 That's why we need to stop letting the world be ruled by capital. You're criticizing the world we have now . Monopoly government licensing and favorable professional regulations give privileges to business that wouldn't exist in a world with no state and no taxation
Anarcho-Capitalism is not Anarchism.
Say it again for the fascists in the back
Sorry policeman, you can't give me a ticket for speeding over 20 MPH beyond the limit, because I subscribe to government B which allows any speed in a vehicle as long as I personally think it is safe. And well. I think it was safe and you have no jurisdiction over me since you are obviously a Government A cop. LOL!
Ghengis Khan began his career as head of a collective self defense agency, look it up.
nice
So was Attila the Hun.
"The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm a libertarian and I'd like to debate you" - Ronald Reagan
Only if you are worried about running out of oxygen from laughing so hard.
Wow! I'm surprised Reagan ever had such a cogent thought.
@@cuseyeti5243 it’s a parody of, “I’m from the government and I’m here to help.”
He really lost it at the end. "Everywhere that I don't see a government agenct is a libertarian utopia." Ridiculous.
Libertarianism is all the magical thinking of religion but with none of the guilt or social responsibility.
Here is Me. I have chosen voluntarily to be governed by an entity that, just for the sake of argument, has exactly the same laws as the present-day United States. My neighbour has chosen to be governed by an entity that allows its members to shoot anyone they feel threatened by.
My neighbour just shot me and took my house. Which set of voluntary laws have been violated?
Here is what your saying in reality is between these two false hoods which one is more real. Dont be a dork
@@timmybohannon93 that's not a good response lol
Libertarians are born on 3rd base while advocating for volunteerism and no government. While that is possible on a remote island living in conditions before the Enlightenment. The minute the trade leaves your island, your town, your city, it becomes more problematic. And I like vaccines, clean safe water, breathable air . . . This utopian bubble is another example of abandoning critical thinking.
These libertarians are so silly.
Libertarians really don't think things through, do they?
AtheistRex this particular caller represents libertarians the way the United States represents freedom. "you're free, go do whatever you want. but first, about that freedom..."
Robby Mines I'm an American and I wake up every day and do whatever the fuck I want. Where is this "about that freedom..." you're talking about?
do you speed?
do you enjoy annually tackling your taxes, like a kid with a homework assignment?
if somebody killed your mom, and you tracked them down and killed them, do you feel like talking to the state about it?
The first lesson I got from my Economy teacher at uni was: the free market will solve all but there is a problem, free markets are ideal constructions that have no application in the real world as all market players have unequal power due to their circumstances and human nature.
Libertarians summed up : I don’t want to pay my taxes and I think I will be on top in my fantasy world
Libertarians have convinced me Libertarians are never going to convince anybody of anything.
Please someone help me, I’ve watched Sam debate 50 libertarians by now, it is actually melting my brain
No, it just energizes!
It always goes the same way, with almost identical talking points. The lemmings keep calling him thinking they're going to get one on Seder with the same tired takes.
pretty funny how he called his room (presumably in his moms basement) a libertarian utopia
Minus the cold beer.
substitute warm Mountain Dew.
+SolarisLunaran "Socialists need to leave and go anyone else in the world. Leave this country alone and let libertarians make it great."
Hahahahahahahahahahahaha! No other response necessary to that bit of insanity.
"Corporate bodies are empowered by government. Gov't gives them special privileges and tax breaks. They wouldn't amass power."
This is almost a hilarious as the first comment. Forget for a moment that the original design of the corporate charter has almost nothing to do with the current corporate entity. That corporations have amassed power to the extent that some have is due to govt enabling is something you have to actually prove, otherwise, it is a non sequitur. All businesses get "privileges" and "tax breaks" but libertarians have nothing to say about that fact. Koch Industries is not incorporated so their wealth is the result of their ingenuity alone, whereas Walmart Inc and Standard Oil owe their wealth to the govt? Hahaha! Priceless libertarian thinking at work.
"Competition would keep everyone in check."
Right. Now all you need to do is get everyone agree to compete and not grow too big so that they corner markets and begin to monopolize. Hahahaha! More priceless bullshit. Businesses are doing everything than can to avoid competition. It's the govt that should be enabling competition through anti trust law. As it is, the laws exist, but they're routinely ignored by both business and regulators. This is because govt (i.e. the people) don't want anti trust enforced or because business has captured govt to the point where it calls the shots?
"People choose to buy what they want. If you don't like to buy something from a big scary corporation then don't buy from them. People are not stupid."
In fact, some people are stupid, you, for instance. Others have low or bad information and or are too poor to CHOOSE what to buy or from whom to buy it.
"Sam assumes that people are stupid, just like most progressives. He believes people are stupid and can't be trusted."
Stupidity and trust are very different things. Perhaps not in your case. We already know the extent to which people can be trusted to live up to their principles. Ever read any game theory, such as the "prisoner's dilemma"? People mostly act based on incentives and what they (think they) know. Trust but verify.
"A libertarian has faith in humanity."
Far from it. You can only live in a society where everyone thinks just as you do. That'd what voluntary societies are, little tribes of homogeneity. It's progressives that trust "humanity" as evidenced through our belief in democracy. We want to live in a pluralistic society, not just our own little bubbles. We even allow democracy haters, like you, to use the democratic process to try to dismantle it. We believe people are not stupid enough to fall for such childish nonsense.
"Sad little boy you are Sam."
So much for libertarian tolerance for the individual that you pride yourselves on. Given that you sound like a 12 year old with a hard on for ignorance, I wouldn't call anyone "little boy."
GOD, reading this game me a hard-on. ty sir
It COULD allow for corporate power? We're there now and there are regulations. Lift the regulations and we'll all be slaves.
well that is the exact problem...they are being deregulated and we all know what that means...more sh-t for the 99.9%
I'd argue that we have a collective responsibility to each other and that it's the libertarian rejection of that idea that stops me from fully accepting the ideology. No man is an island.
On the surface, libertarianism appears to be the ideology of real freedom for people [and it does have a lot of validity]. However, the way in which the kind of anti-government rhetoric I've heard from libertarins seems to align with the anti-regulation rhetoric of corporations is troubling.
:)
"I'm kind of wondering if you have any questions for me, frankly."
"Yes, how do you believe in such fantastical notions?"
😆
whenever Sam is about to close in the debate you can see it, it always makes me smile ear to ear.
Hello. I am a libertarian, I would like, a double cheeseburger, french fries, and a medium drink. no burger, no fries or a drink
I remember having a conversation with an acquaintance back in about January-February of 2013 about Libertarianism and I was immediately alarmed by its logic and the harm that would follow it were ever implemented in our society. However at that time I wasn't as much into politics or theory so I didn't quite know how to respond to him nor really hold my own in political discussions in general. I've come a very long way since then but at the time I had looked up Libertarian debates, and this exact video was the very first one I clicked on. Then I clicked another one from MR, and another, and another, and then I started watching the entire show. At that point, I got into Secular Talk later on, and David Pakman, then much later came TMBS (RIP Michael) and I'm a loyal follower to MR.
I love to go back and revisit the old Libertarian debates every now and then, they're so much fun and entertaining. Given the times we're living in currently, I've been visiting these old Libertarian debates more frequently. For a while Majority Report had a recession of Libertarian debates but thankfully a few have sprung up again, so I look to the present and the past. I've also gotten my friend into leftist channels from Sam's Libertarian debates as well and pushed him from apolitical to leftist. Thanks, MR!
9:07 years later, would like to know what the callers position (or what it would've been in 2012) on all the protests, looting etc that's happening now. i wonder if he'd defend it or if his position would change based on the race of who's rebelling against the government
I've been randomly watching a lot of these. It seems like a lot of people who call themselves libertarians are really ancaps
Only yesterday I was thinking; "it's been a while since a libertarian called in".
Thank you Internet gods.
another master debater
A real Masterbater
Wouldnt choosing your government without moving require never leaving your property? What if your neighbor chooses a government that has policies that are dangerous towards you
I’m binge watching these libertarian debates and I’m amazed at the fantasy world libertarians live in. The biggest delusion that I see is that they think they’re not half baked conservatives.
It's more than just the internet. The government helps bridge the gap between what is possible and what is profitable. The government helps fund research on medical techniques that might save the callers life at one point.
Caller says "I'm living in my Libertarian Utopia right now in my living room." problem is buddy someone can come into you living room and kill you take your stuff, no police to stop them. And then they are living in THEIR own private Libertarian Utopia over your corpse and belongings. That movie Mortal Engines? That's Libertarian Utopia
Australia has universal public health system for all citizens and permanent residents.. private health is optional and most people do not need it. I also lived in Denmark were the private health tends to zero. The public system is great and they would kill you if you tried to make it private. Your data istuned to justify your viewpoint. Libertarian absolutism ....
warlords in political power and the "free market" destroyed Somalia
More comedy, Libertarians are hilarious
If you wanna see what Anarcho/Capitalism looks like - take a look at the world order. Basically no real rule of law, no functional government to speak of, no single currency. And what makes you think communes trading under free association would be any different from countries trading under free association? Basically you'd transpose the chaos of the international order onto the national order.
Good points.
Very well said
So a poor Libertarian should be allowed to live in Arizona under California's laws on medical cannabis? Go for it. And good luck with that!
Good god. This guy is my experience with about 90-95 percent of all Libertarians I've ever met. Pure foolishness.
And there is no perfect competition because of a thing called the elasticity of demand and offer....if I recall my economy lesson well.
If I am a baker and can hold out longer from selling my bred than my clients from not eating it I win as I demonstrated I have more power over the market.
Thats libertarian in a nutshell. “Might makes right”
The glint in Sam's eye when hearing the phrase "I'm a libertarian" is priceless. I automatically start giggling.
"The US government should allow for competitors in the same territory"
By this logic, should I be able to build a new Amazon-like service within an Amazon warehouse? Or a new bank from within my local bank?
What regulations? What regulators? Give me three specifics and one citation to show me you even know what you are talking about.
♫ Come with me, and you'll be In a world of pure imagination ♪♪
Note the "The Beach", "Lord Of The Flies", & The Road Warrior for Libertarian parables
gee I want that world,no wars & no crime. Sounds like he lives in my fantasy world, & I ride a unicorn, great place to live, wish it was real, NEVER HAPPENING
That last point... ROFL "There should be competition... different countries on the same territory.." Omfg.... Afaik that's called war!!! I can't stop laughing.....
Sam wins again.
If they say "voluntary association"
One more time!
No one voluntarily forms companies and starts laboring in their own.
It’s playing with model trains, this libertarian thing. It’s good to have a hobby.
They would use coercion for profit. You're absolutely right. Not everything should be done for profit.
these poor guys are utterly confused....
That's a wonderful sentiment. I'm sure your friends value your input into discussions like these.
The Caller is in a libertarian utopia? did the government not subsidize the utility companies for his water, electricity, internet, phone, etc? Does this guy seriously believe he lives according to his own will?
Sam you made yourself look ridiculous when you got huffy and emotional while talking to this guy who was perfectly calm and polite. It was really frustrating, actually.
I'd love Sam to ask a Libertarian if they would deregulate driving rules and regs, Dereg the Highway Code and rules of the road.
If they say No, ask why they hate freedom and why they want a big brother telling them where and when they can drive.
If they say Yes, Ask them to explain why rules and regulations work for driving and roads but don’t for buildings/utilities/finance etc.....
Here are some actual meanings to political words- Liberal=wanting rapid change,
conservative=slow or no change, left wing=socialism or communism, right wing=capitalism or fascism, libertarian=minimal intrusion on regular peoples lives by government aka maximum freedom for the people
another bizarre libertarian living in a fantasy world of their own making
Wow, a libertarian admits the free market myth is in fact a myth.... we're making progress Sam!
Well that's a great accomplishment for James J. Hill, but as a regular traveler I'd much rather have economically feasible and reliable trains that span the whole country than unregulated ones that only travel between a few states. On that note, I also prefer our interstate highway system and roads on every street to roads beginning and ending at points where the companies deem the most profitable, having no obligation to take care of them, and not even constructing at all in more rural areas.
For a good and strong economy roads are actually very important. Well, transportation as a whole.
Don’t worry in libertarians fantasy land corporations will take care of these roads. In no way will they gouge the people to ride on them or try to stop competitors from using them causing competitors to either build random roadways or fight to get on others .
Yeah that will end well
Vintage Sam
how do common roads get built and maintained without a common tax?
It is not a matter of taking anyones advantage, its a matter of not letting those with an advantage to abuse those who do not.
This is why it's hard to have a conversation with libertarians because they don't live in reality and they seem to be completely unaware of the world around them. I appreciate what they are trying to say about people thinking for themselves and not needing a government to regulate their lives and their business.
The trouble is that we tried that shit about 100 years ago and we had children working and dying in coal mines and we had businesses that proudly discriminated against black people.
What's the difference between self-organization and government?
We do have that right.
Last time I got my license revoked it was because they counted more than 7 red lights I ran in a single weekend. Not because of income tax reasons.
Standing on a building analogy was perfect
Aspiring to be better than what we are, is what drives us to grow and _become_ better than what we _were,_ so aspiring to universal peace, whilst unlikely it will ever succeed, will lead to longer and longer periods of _almost universal_ peace.
I wonder how that would work..
_"Sorry, Officer. I know you pulled me over for speeding, but under the laws I subscribe to on RUclips, the speed limit is 185."_
I love at the beginning where he tells the guy his argument to save time lmao
The big difference here is that corporations always have profit as their number one motive, while the government's number one priority is (as far as a good government goes) looking out for the people. Without government, if there even were roads, I can assure you they would be expensive as hell to use.
Good job Sam Seder!
I didn't know you had it in you. Glad I subscribed.
Libertarians want to privatize the roads and have those who own them make rules of the road. This way people would be able to choose and, theoretically, the roads would be safer and better(since private owners tend to look after their property better than public officials take care of public property). Walter Block is especially concerned with this, so you can read what he has to say on the subject, if you're interested.
That made me smile, thank you :)
"When does underwriter labrotories stop/publicly highlight electronics companies dumping manufacturing waste in the river out of town?" Their job is to make sure that your computer doesn't catch fire/explode, leak mercury onto your desk, etc. There are no (independent) environmental organizations certifying the safety of [insert industrial activity here] because of the EPA. Since companies are already forced to pay for the EPA, there isn't enough incentive to justify other organizations.
This was well said. These people are absolutely beset with illusions. Living in one of the most privileged countries in the world, totally cocooned from material conditions of life, living in an individualistic fantasy land, yet as we all know, that if society were to break down, they would all perish very quickly.
Never been tested? We know from Hong Kong and Singapore that Free Trade and low taxes work. We know from Switzerland that peace and free banking work. We know from Australia that private "social security" works. We know from the US that free speech works. We know from Canada that private air traffic control works and so on. History and the modern world are filled with examples of freedom working and libertarianism seeks to expand all those freedoms to everyone, everywhere.
Yes. Any study of history, or examination of countries without such a program indicates that not doing so would be extremely foolish.
That doesn't matter to a Libertarian. The only metric of a system's success is its profitability.
This is also why they think government healthcare is evil: the well-being of all citizens happens to be bad for the bottom line. For-profit healthcare, where every denied treatment puts money into shareholders' pockets, is the preferred method.
We live in a socialist country.
Everytime socialism comes up, you have to wonder if those people have any sense of reality or education.
Can we as a society stop pretending socialism has any kind of total power in major countries?
Hunger is a physical response (actually part of the environmental stimulus I mentioned), not an instinctual one. If your stomach is empty or you are malnourished or undernourished, you feel hunger. You don't feel hunger because it's destiny, which is what all human nature arguments imply: that man is destined to be bad or good or whatever. There's no such thing. Environment is the most reliable indicator for values and behavior.
I guess the whole point of Libertarianism is to make business accountable to the customers more than to the share-holders. No matter if its government that runs it or if it's owned privately.
Would competitors in the same territory be a civil war?
It's like what Stephen Colbert said: "It's like wanting a loaf of bread, but only getting half a loaf of bread, so instead you decide to go with the muffin full of broken glass."
In the 72 years of homesteading, there were 1.6 million homesteads granted. But, Between 1892 and 1924, the peak years of immigration to the United States, 22 million immigrants entered the country just through Ellis Island. The math does not work out. Looking at the population growth of cities during the same period, particularly on the east coast, it is easy to see that most immigrants stayed in the cities.
in absolutist terms, youre right. humans dont necessarily need governance to trade. the smaller the group you live in , the easier it is. but a vast majority choose/embrace/endorse it.
demonstrating a majority's socio philosophical transition away from this pro governance paradigm, towards something you describe, would be as impressive as anti natalists demonstrating the majority's transition away from a desire to breed.
Hating it is irrelevant. If you got a large group of people together in the same place then either one of two things will happen.
1. they will form some sort of permanent institution to settle arguments and disagreements and set guidelines for doing things for safety and other reasons
Or
2. the disagreements and chaos will get so bad that everybody end up killing each other and/or using up all the resources. After that, you and the group of people will never be heard from again.
No it's not theft because you don't have to fund the landlords property if you don't want his services. I'm forced to pay for gov'ts services whether or not I want or use them.
It’s kind of fucked up that the Verizon store doesn’t have any competitors? Oh, AT&T you say? No I meant like inside the store
3:14 trying to get to a libertopia, along the way you unshackle the restraints on corporate powers that would exploit you, and you become slaves to those corporations.
If a home builder wants anyone to buy his houses he will have to buy roads to connect to them. Private companies have every incentive to take care of roads they own because then no one will use them. If people want to live far away from civilization then they will have to bear the costs, or connect to a road closest. These problems would be solved voluntarily without force in the equation. If you want roads, talk to your community and ask them to get together and fund it.
Neal Stephenson has a lot to answer for.
Actually a great example, since the only reason the main characters were able to navigate that world successfully was by being exceptional. Everyone else was spit roasted, SOL and JWF
"My point is that companies care about what their (potential) customers think and will make changes to accommodate them."
.....or hide the actions that are perceived as bad by the consumer. Thats where watchdogs and regulations serve such a valuable purpose.
"competitors in the same territory"
that's what is called armed militias and terrorist organisations
he's literally advocating for america to become somalia