11:45 The tiebreaker should be a 0.1 second blink mode game, that would be so fun to watch, and it would also be quite balanced, because a tiebreaker would not be a common thing and would provide the viewers with a lot of excitement.
I definitely think moving shouldn't be removed, I feel like the moving community in geoguessr just gets shat on perma for no reason by nm players, but duels do need to change. The only real fair way to do moving is to do round by round scoring live challenges, which obviously they won't do, but I think adjusting moving duels should be shaped around getting as close to that format as possible. Another funny thing about the randomness of moving, I remember I saw a conversation between blinky and some other pros about moving vs nm and randomness and blinky was quite convinced he could always beat worse players in moving duels but couldn't in nm so he thought nm/nmpz ended up being more random, which I thought was kind of interesting.
Moving relies completely on knowledge of place names, with the additional skills of nm/nmpz, it requires more time of learning phone codes and place names etc... if you put a lot of time into moving, you get a lot better at it, but almost nobody wants to have moving out of the top rated players cause it's almost a different game. There should be a separate tournament for moving it doesn't make sense to put it with the other 2 modes.
Of course it shouldn't be removed from the game, but moving should be way less important and useful for players to win as it was in previous world cups and other competitiions.
Maybe Blinky reads it wrong, his edge in moving is bigger than his edge in no moving, so he thinks the problem is the format but maybe the "problem" (in quotes because obviously he's also pretty good at NM) is him
Moving is my favourite mode, but I feel like it's less made for duels format. NM/NMPZ and moving should be two seperate entities and should have totally different rules. The community as well is almost totally different between the two. It's almost like comparing regular football (soccer) and futsal (indoor soccer). Like yeah they have the same basic rules but they are totally two different things. NM/NMPZ works well with a duel type format I feel. But, moving should use another type of format entirely. Like maybe you get 5 rounds with a 3 min timer, whoever gets the most total wins. While maybe giving extra points to 5ks. The community for these types of gameplay is actually quite strong (cactus league for example) and somewhat disregarded because there's no such thing integrated into the game (yet). Also, just fewer moving players play duels because they are just less enjoyable and less meant for them. Should we have two different World Cup for both of them? Maybe sometime in the future, yes. But, I think for now geoguessr needs to focus on creating a better gamemode for us moving players
I was genuinely impressed with this video, you did a really good job at explaining and editing!! I know it's been in the works for a while, but it was definitely worth it. And of course your/the collective communities ideas are nothing but SEVERELY needed :)
i def like the idea with the multis, just needs to get tested i guess and the capped multis is also smth zi8gzag alrdy wanted to get added. Goated video
How about: (Not as complicated as it may look at first) For professional competition: - 10 rounds per game, - Points are added for each, not subtracted - When a game ends the player with more points wins - The game ends after round 1 if the difference in points is 5000 or more - The game ends after round 2 if the difference in points is 4500 or more - The game ends after round X if the difference in points is 5000-X*500 or more - The game ends after round 10 (maybe tiebreak if difference is less than 30) For ranked online: - 12 rounds per game - 4800-x*400
Very few games reach the round limit, and those that do are the most exciting games. Getting rid of it entirely will probably not be a problem (considering you also have games with 2 or 3 rounds only that will balance it out), and with very high multipliers there would only be a few more rounds anyway. There have been some extremely long and boring games during Rainbolt tournaments, but that was because there was no time limit per round and some teams simply spent 15 minutes (!) on a difficult round because nobody would stop them from doing so. Having 1 minute per round is keeping games from getting boring already.
stacking multipliers on the player who wins rounds early has the effect of magnifying the early game instead of the late game. and it makes comebacks harder. I don't think this helps.
Watching the world cup was so awesome but I definitely got a bit upset from some of the multi merchanting. I really like the sound of that first suggestion where you only get a multiplier boost if your guess was closer. I could maybe see that being an issue for rounds where both players get the right city and the scores are like 4997 vs 4991 or something like that, so whoever's closer would be more luck-based than skill-based. Maybe there could be some critical distance where you only get the multi boost if your guess is closer than the other player's by at least, say, 10km? In any case, I hope there's some change to the multi system since I like what it tries to do but currently it feels uncompetitive at times.
Amazing video, very solid points. I also have thoughts about the WC in general, mainly that the last day really doesn't need to be 6-7 hours long (for context, I attended in person.) Towards the end it felt like they were really trying to hype up the audience and a lot of people had either left or were just exhausted.
Interesting. Love your idea of each player having their own multiplier based of the number of rounds they won. 5k health, 40s or 50s rounds make sense as well. However i don't agree about moving. Like, I don't want to be wild, but usually people who say moving is not fair are quite bad at it (and don't like it in the first place, cause and consequence). Especially with an extra 15s. Moving requires really diffrents skill from nm/nmpz, and the choices in how to move/what to read are definitely part of it. The issue is about finding a town name purely randomly (which is rare) and just send. Am quite hesitating but maybe i agree with extra 20s rather than 15s, makes more risky to quickly send and favours 5k. As a player who played timed moving for 3 years before switching mainly to nm because of esports formats (with tie brakers being nm or nmpz), it's also like you have 3 games out of 5 that are based on landscapes/metas skills and being good at moving is pretty useless. It's why having move in 1st and 3rd in order makes sense. Additionnaly i like the idea of having more nmpz but we also know that it s the most random mode so not the most fair (especially with the wc 2024 map). Great video though, nice to have some reviews of duels formats. Cheers.
personally i think other esports should take some cues from geoguessr. what if you were playing counter strike and your bullets did more damage as the timer got closer to 0.
Moving is also the funniest part to watch for general audience. Im certain. For game to grow World Cup should attract audience. So completely removing Moving is a shot in a leg.
How is it the funniest part to watch? It's boring. Players move to get information, and whoever can move the fastest wins, it's just a stupid random potluck for the top moving players, it has to be interesting yes but luck may be fun to watch but it's not fair for people trying to make jobs out of it.
@travisallan4637 I'm not sure about fun/funniest, but most accessible for sure. For many viewers new to the game, moving is the most understandable and interactive. They can see more of the location and they have the possibility of some info they can identify such as language etc. For the non-moving modes, they can be impressive, but baffling. I showed my teen nephews (who weren't very familiar with the game) some of the WC finals, starting with Blinky v Consus, and they were on the edge of their seats and begged to watch more even though it was bedtime! They enjoyed all of the modes but they loved seeing the 5ks that were mainly from the moving games. Not every moving game is finals level and not everyone will feel exactly the same, but moving is definitely a valuable part of engaging new viewers and players.
Excellent points and video production quality, hopefully this video blows up and gets the attention it deserves (and needs if the WC format should change)
@@UnformedPond416 when I challenge new players (like family I’m trying to show the game to), I always shut off multis as well. It’s very frustrating in competitive duals
I agree current format is pretty silly and in 5 years time people will look back and be shocked by how dumb it is, but I don't think all the solutions offered are good, like the multipliers based on guess quality is way too complex. Having smaller multipliers, rewarding 5k's somehow, like by increasing the multipliers are good ideas, and letting players pick their preferred gamemode is an idea especially for knockout rounds. Getting rid of dumb stuff like the ZigZag and Orlando game would be good. Another thing they can simply do is just eliminate health and tally the score up by rounds won and make it first to X rounds, probably also has a problems and may be boring but people really got to guess better.
Eliminating health would produce even more egregiously unfair outcomes. Somebody could miss the continent 4 times while out-hedging their opponent in Luxembourg/Curaçao/Macau/Monaco/Singapore & win the game.
Great video I agree with all your points, thanks for making this. I would like to add three more points : - Let the viewers have more time to make their own guesses, now the commentators just tells you the answer in seconds, it remove a fun aspect for the viewers. -What are theses huge ugly characters with boring animations constantly on screen? The player's faces are good enough, use this space for team logo or statistics or other interesting stuff. - When both of the player screens are displayed on stream, please use the whole screen, we don't need borders this large, the players screen are already small, optimize space/information on the display, think about pleasing both new and advanced viewers.
I've found moving starts to be less bs in team games, since you can at least go both ways to find info. It should still be in WC, but not as prominent imo
Much more casual player here I think moving is exciting to watch but agree it should be protected more with the clock shortening a lot less when a player guesses and a bonus for a 5k capping the multis and making them less aggressive is also a good idea imo, maybe something like 1x/1x/1.5x/1.5x/2x/2x/2.5x/2.5x/3x/3x Bin round limits but reduce round times after R10 and keep reducing every round after that Maybe slightly less time for NMZP+NM than moving And some other way of choosing a round order so that its not always the same order with 2 moving games guaranteed
I totally agree. I also think in the single elimination a best of 5 games is too short. Too much luck can happen in those few of games amongst the best players especially with the multipliers
nah fuck moving, it's not about skill in geoguessr it's your skill to find signs, read signs, and find cities on a map, ain't nobody want to watch that
Something who can encourages the 5k : If each player have is own multiplier, win a round with a 5k increase from two steps the multipliers. Like if the multipliers are 1 / 1.5 / 2 / 2.5 / 3 You can jump from 1.5 to 2.5 with a 5k, meaning you can guess quickly, but at the begining of the game you maybe should take 5 seconds more to increase faster the multi
Thats an interesting idea, I like that. But this only makes sense for player specific multis - not overall multis. Because increasing multi's is not always good. They are nice if you want to need to make a comeback, so jumping multis with a 5K is cool
I honestly think that moving is the least random mode. If you can move, you will almost never think like "OH, this field might be either in Europe, Australia, Brazil or the US. Which one do I pick?" Like NM and NMPZ are also unfair formats then because there are a lot of examples when a random location can with the same likelihood be on different continents. I think we need to accept that it's GeoGUESSR. It's not chess or soccer where solely your skill determines the winner but also there is a huge aspect of luck involved. If we don't like it, we should cancel the WC altogether
In the context of a competitive game random means that you're more likely to lose to a weaker player, not that you're more likely to not know where you are. If you start moving in a direction and there's nothing and the other guy start moving in the other direction and gets a sign that says "we are near Omaha, Nebraska", he's going to beat you. I also had the opportunity to play moving on my average computer and on a super good computer and I can tell you the difference is hard to overstate, so there's a huge advantage for some people over others there. By ensuring that both players receive the same information, you definitionally ensure a greater level of fairness, and then it's about what people can do with the information they are presented with. It's not entirely fair but it's obviously more fair than moving, there isn't really an argument there.
Absolutely agree, even at the world cup it was seen when players in nmpz mode regularly confused not only countries but continents. For example, I have no chance of winning against Blinky in moving, yet I have beaten top ranked players in nm and nmpz by just randomly putting a random field on the correct continent. The problem with luck in a moving game can be easily solved by simply showing players the opponent's view. A more serious problem is that there are fewer rounds in moving than nm+nmpz, which is already unfair to moving players. Also, nm players can just instasend in a moving game, which kills the whole point of the mode. If this problem is solved, moving will easily be the least luck-dependent mode.
this is not an opinion, both players get the same information in NM and NMPZ so it's less random OBJECTIVELY, there is no differing opinion, there is ONLY right and wrong
Yah its crazy how you could beat someone 4 rounds in a row but then on the 5th round they beat you with one guess because of a multiplier. I hate this aspect of the game
Here's my opinion on the topics that were covered: 1) Multipliers - Geoguessr Pro players are REALLY good. Yes, they make awful guesses from time to time, but they play quite consistently well. If every round were to have no multipliers, some games would be dragged on for soooo long (assuming no 10 rounds limit), which would become boring at some point after so many games. If the round limit was maintained, that'd stretch every game to 10 rounds and there would barely be any killing, only winning by having slightly more health than your opponent. - However, I have to agree with you that the multipliers are far too aggressive. Personally, I believe a different increase would be better. Such a system would be: 1) Moving games: a lot of moving games are basically just NM if a player locks in super fast. Therefore, I believe the 0.5x limit should be KEPT, or even increased to incentivize moving gameplay. 2) NM games: these games are harder and require more focus, therefore the multiplier should be lower, perhaps at 0.3x per round. 3) NMPZ games: the hardest of the bunch. The multiplier here should be around 0.2x or 0.15x. This system would be a lot more balanced for multipliers. - As for your solution, where each player would have their own multiplier, this would run into the same problem you mentioned with the round limits. If player A scores 5000 and player B scores 4999, should A really win a full 0.5x for the next round just because of 1 point? This would be especially bad if player A got to a high multiplier just by winning a couple of rounds with a small 50 point difference and wiped out the other player when the other didn't have a chance. 2) Round limit - Not much too say here. I agree with your solution for this. 3) Moving duels - I can agree that moving can be up to luck, but it's a necessary gamemode. There's also insane practice involved in becoming a moving player. I wouldn't mind seeing less of it since NM and NMPZ is cooler anyways. - And for the moving gamemode being basically a joke since it's just NM after the other guy instantly guesses, that's why I would recommend a higher multiplier with a more punishing damage, basically REQUIRING that the players move around or they'll be wiped out immediately. In the end, everything will be based on luck. Player A might be insane at some country and never get the country, or potentially have that country appear 3 times in the game.
Just make the multis consistent, for example moving x3, nm x2 and mnpz simply no multis. (Reducing the health would lead to the same thing but keeping the multis that way would make it easier to get used to.)
I have been saying a lot of this for a long time and I am glad someone is finally talking about it. The most important thing to fix IMO is the multipliers, for the reasons you state. I do not agree with your solutions, although they are good, they are not audience friendly. I think they should just fix them at 2-3x and keep them fixed at all times, which fixes the main problem of the later rounds being weighted so much more. I also think they should make rounds a bit shorter, and just remove the round limit; with a fixed multi of 2.5x and shorter rounds it will be pretty rare to have games going 15+ rounds, and the ones that do will just be good content. On the game modes, I think that NM is the most fair and most skill intensive format. I would like them to just remove moving and NMPZ. Moving is flawed for the reason you state, it just zooming down the road until they find a usable sign and someone finds it and someone doesn't. NMPZ is just not a skill format despite everyone saying its the hardest; there are rounds that I can beat pros in NMPZ because some rounds are just random. If you watched the world cup this year you know how dumb NMPZ can be, so many tossups that it just becomes pure luck, and watching two of the best players just flipping a coin to see who wins the whole thing is not really that fun. I would propose they just make better maps to add variety, replace moving with NM but with information heavy maps (street signs, highway signs, indo/philipine region name signs, etc), that's what makes moving players good at those maps anyway, so they will still have an advantage. And NMPZ can just be replaced with NM, but with harder rural locations or something, or keep it as a tiebreaker but with a better map instead of the nonsense we saw at the world cup.
I remember proposing something similar to each player having their own multis, so it would make learning and getting a better score in smaller countries more valuable, and getting rid of multi merchanting by winning just one round after you opponent has won last 8 rounds by a slight margin. If you are constantly winning - your wins are getting more and more rewarded each round, but if the game goes toe to toe with each player taking rounds off each other, it would be practically the same system as it is now! Didn't really think of the negatives regarding this, but I think the multi increase math is a bit too much, so probably should just find the sweet spot of multi increases for winning rounds. Fix for Moving being the most important game mode imo is just swapping No Move with Moving so it's like - NM, M, NM, M, NMPZ I know it nerfs the moving players a bit, but if you win your one moving game, you get another moving game guaranteed. One more thing that you did not touch upon on this video, but was a big flaw was how the bracket was structured... How comes there is even a chance of Blinky and Consus meeting in quarters? That should never happen in any game's tournament brackets, even just using any random bracket generator it would automatically seed players into the opposing sides and the soonest 2nd and 3rd place of the same group could meet should be semis, while the only time 1st and someone of the same group meets should be the finals (assuming there is no double elim introduced). A1 should play C2-D3 winner, B1 should play C3-D2 winner, and the winner of those games should meet in semis... Or at least with how they made that group C winner is in top side of the bracket, the least they could have done is seeded A3-B2 winner against C1 instead of back into A1 ???
As a sole moving player who doesn’t really care about NM and doesn’t pay attention to NMPZ almost at all, I definitely think changes need to be made. I don’t know if a “you can only send after X amount of time” would deter people from insta-sending but I’ve seen that suggested. Definitely think changes are needed, but I’m sad that this game mode gets shit on by pro players (minus Blinky lol)
Fun video! Great proposal with how the multis should work - both with the scaling based on victories and margin. Could also incorporate a bonus increase with a 5k. But your proposal would truly make earlier round and smaller countries important - genius! I love moving and do not want to nerf it.I would prefer to keep the time at 60 sec for moving, but always give players 30 seconds. For NM and NMPZ, I think 40 is enough as you proposed. And obviously, given how hard the maps were at the current WC, the round limit is totally unnecessary.
I would propose: - 10 rounds per game, - Points are added for each, not subtracted - When a game ends the player with more points wins - The game ends after round 1 if the difference in points is 5000 or more - The game ends after round 2 if the difference in points is 4500 or more - The game ends after round X if the difference in points is 5000-X*500 or more - The game ends after round 10 (maybe tiebreak if difference is less than 30)
i don't get why loser doesn't get to pick the game mode for the next round, seems like the best way to go works the same in so many other esports with map picks
Great video brate, your solutions are really good, theyre so good im not even going to write my own solutions here because yours is simply better. The pros and devs need to talk about this before regionals.(ps. I remember like 2 years ago when we would get matched in gold/master alot, really Nice to see how good youre doing lately and how good you are at the game now). Cheers brate
hey wook, really like your rework of the multis and your suggestions for moving duels! however, I’ve been playing geoguessr since 2017 thanks to geowizard, and I started playing using info to get 5k in unlimited time. I’ve always been a better moving player and even if it’s eventually a separate event, there’s still a community of players who would appreciate it. A cool way to reformat moving could be giving longer time but requiring a 5k to win the round
i understand the world cup not having infinite time so they can't let games drag on, but man it used to be so hype in rainbolt tournaments when games would go to round 15+
Multis like that would be fairer, but we wouldn't see the huge swings and comebacks that I think people really look for. But I can't think of an easy solution, the matches should definitely just be Move, No Move, NMPZ, No Move, NMPZ. Viewers really like Moving matches and one random round at the start may not be fair but it is good for viewership.
Nice vid man ! Always interesting to debate the formats. I agree to some extent but of course disagree on others! Moving : For me the most spectacular format to watch, although not the trendy one or the majority of players/viewers. This is the mode where people will know a bit of geography/place names/languages. Also, the ability to find information is a talent in itself, so I do not see the randomness. Then the ability to pinpoint is absolutely spectacular. Multipliers : Agreeing that they should be reorganised and i like your proposal. The only thing : they CANNOT BE REMOVED. If so you'll end up with competitive geoguessr relying on Australia/USA/Russia guesses most of the times, which would be absolutely boring. Round Limit : agree they should just be removed, whatever any other solution for long game prevention.
I was actually thinking there should be less time after the first player guesses, not more. I feel like there's basically no reward for guessing first as it stands
I've always thought multis were a bit unfair. The main two arguments for the current system are comeback potential and shortning the games. Which is fair, but also unrewarding to players who consistently make better guesses, only to lose to a 5.5x multi. You can have both of these things in a different system. (Competitive) GeoGuessr, at its heart, is a game about getting closer to the location (read getting more points). So how can someone, who has mathematically gotten more points, lose in one equally bad guess as their opponents made in the early rounds, but were not punished for as much. It's simply unfair, no matter how you twist it. The most boring solution would be to change the system so you don't deal damage, but rather the points add up for each player. Let's say 9 rounds: 3 moving, 3 NM, 3 NMPZ. I think that would remove the inherent unfairness, but it's also super bland. Damage is fun and exciting. The split second before you see the damage dealt is the real adrenaline kick and draw of the eSport, in my opinion. I've thought about other solutions, but I do think the ones you presented make it most exciting, while being fair. Having seperate multis for each player ensures the comback potential, if the player just starts popping off halfway through. I also agree on the point of 5k being unrewarding. It's just... a pretty graphic. The round limit is also pointless, especially with the current system. Since the multis are linear, they balloon super high, and I think very few games would've gone over 10 rounds regardless.
casual players like moving and the world cup is supposed to promote the game to new players. I don't like or play moving but I see why it's in there. Also at some level there's a higher skill ceiling for moving, as opposed to e.g. nmpz where both players don't know and one guess happens to be closer.
most players started playing geoguessr because of rainbolt guessing in 0,1 sec, and the second statement is just straight up ridiculously false, its the opposite if anything else
@@GeoIssve most new players realize they're not rainbolt lol. And it's not "ridiculously false", there is more information in a moving round and HENCE there is less guesswork = higher skill ceiling. Although there is also more variance in the information a player receives in a given round, on average the player receives more. Chill tf out dude.
I don't think there's a clear skill ceiling for moving - Blinky clearly played multiple times better than anyone else on moving, with only Consus really seeming to be close to his level. It's much harder to tell who is the best at NM or NMPZ, they all seem to be much more similar. (Maybe MK being the best but only by a bit)
@@chir0pter still guessing with little information is what proved to be more attractive to new watchers and casual players and the second statement is just extremely easy to see why its false, the max you can do in a round is 5k, so you are telling me that the ceiling to get that in move is higher than in the other modes?
@@GeoIssve New watchers yes, new players no. Without moving this game would die. It would be unplayable for new players And a game is doomed to fail without new players..
great points - mostly I agree with you ;) here is one more proposition: make health lower (3k maybe), no multipliers at all, round limit either stays at ten (for 60 sec rounds) or we could use your proposition to shorten the rounds to play more of them and after the final round the player with lower health loses... this way every round matters the same, which is my biggest concern about the game rn and you have to be consistent throughout the match... in an online tournament Rainbolt just switched the order of Move/NM in both the BO3 and BO5 and it was much better actually...
honestly the only major issue with making health lower (especially as much as 3k) is the possiblity for a round 1 knockout - 3k health only really works well for a team tournament format
I think the multipliers should be just random. Like round#1 2.7x, round#2 1.2x, and limited to 3x Moving games should be less or none. 6000 health means that you can't win the match in one round; plus it might happen that both get 5k in the first round
I think the multi system you proposed is simply too complicated. Most players and viewers enjoy simpler multis where you know whats happening and how much is enough. I do agree 5k should be incentivise more. For the Bo5 i think having M-NM-NMPZ-M-NMPZ would balance it better, maintaining two moving game while also showcase more NMPZ. Finally, one thing to consider would be using another map for Moving vs NM/NMPZ, since the skillset require is different, a different map make for moving game could better showcase why that gamemode does require skill more than plain luck, with the appropriate map moving games can be way more fun to watch
Since they did the separate rating for each mode they should also separate them in the world cup so we get a champion of each game mode that seems a little more fair especially since they separated them and have separate leaderboards
Let's get rid of moving. It's the worst mode ever. Horrible to watch the blurry screen while we excruciatingly wait for the next scene to load. Fast moving is often the best strategy, and it's the most boring experience. I play the daily challenge, and the best strategy is often to literally just fast move for 2 minutes straight to get to a sign.
Agree and disagree. Very good video for pros and newbies. One thing I’d say is Don’t lower the round time to 40 seconds…for moving rounds. But maybe 30 seconds for NMPZ or 45 for NM and the same or more rounds for them.
I'm pretty sure they implemented the 6k health as the standard due to the possibility of being 5ked and you getting 0. The game would be done in one round. In comp, you would insta rage quit due to the amount of elo you just lost in a few seconds.
I actually really like the 10 round limit. It puts a hard cap on game length, which ensures no super long games and makes organizing events much easier. Declaring ties can bring about a lot of issues so i think it would be for the best to avoid it. Playing a tie breaker reintruduces the chance of really long games. What if the tiebreaker need another tiebreaker? etc. I think it is fair to say whoever has the most health at the end wins. They played the best after all. That ofc assumes the multipliers are updated, as i think these are where a lot of unfairness comes from. I also think 6k health has been added to ensure games cannot be over after round one, something i think is good.
bro really completely ignored the 1 hp difference wins, that should NEVER happen and is completely unacceptable, you're literally thinking it's okay to win a round by luck, IN A LIVE ESPORT not a single round should be decided by luck, and yet entire games were decided by it
I 100% support removing Moving completely. Watching nmpz pros click around for 50 seconds is an absolute vibe-killer, not to mention that it occurs TWICE by default. That said, moving is almost certainly easier to watch for new viewers, rather than the absolute sweatfest that is nmpz and nm. Actually, I just thought of something. Why not go in order of decreasing information? Like: G 1: No moving G 2: No moving, no zooming G 3: No moving, no panning, no zooming G 4: nmpz with shorter rounds G 5: nmpz with even short rounds
going into this i expected some baseless criticism but after watching this i think you have some really great ideas, i hope the devs get to hear us out and see the potential in some of these suggestions
Nah multipliers are cool. I ove to see underdogs winning more often with them, when 1 good round is enough for comeback if you are alive. I think it would be more boring to watch without multis. The game is still random in a sense that 10 drops are fully random. Making it little more random with order of drops matters too is not a big deal. And who cares about "full fairness" anyway, game should be fun to watch in a first place
I like the ideas, even if I don't necessarily agree with everything. Main thing I disagree with is close scores. If we're not allowing ties, then I think if you lose by even 1 point it's tough, but that's the game, the opponent was slightly better by some metric even if that metric is plonk luck. Of course multis could mess with that, I'd do away with those entirely, though I really like the individual multiplier idea as well. I think moving being there is fine. It's a different skillset and representing it is good. There are options to explore to balance it being first. Maybe have different rules for it slightly in terms of time limits, making it moving - NM - NMPZ - repeat, or have the players pick whether they want moving/NM/NMPZ could be ideas (like how in other games teams will pick map/character/whatever). The latter could be done so that higher seed/winners bracket chooses first or something. Still, as you said, fantastic world cup despite the issues. Lots of potential in the game as an esport I think and there's a lot of opportunity still to find a format that works.
11:45 The tiebreaker should be a 0.1 second blink mode game, that would be so fun to watch, and it would also be quite balanced, because a tiebreaker would not be a common thing and would provide the viewers with a lot of excitement.
I definitely think moving shouldn't be removed, I feel like the moving community in geoguessr just gets shat on perma for no reason by nm players, but duels do need to change.
The only real fair way to do moving is to do round by round scoring live challenges, which obviously they won't do, but I think adjusting moving duels should be shaped around getting as close to that format as possible.
Another funny thing about the randomness of moving, I remember I saw a conversation between blinky and some other pros about moving vs nm and randomness and blinky was quite convinced he could always beat worse players in moving duels but couldn't in nm so he thought nm/nmpz ended up being more random, which I thought was kind of interesting.
Moving relies completely on knowledge of place names, with the additional skills of nm/nmpz, it requires more time of learning phone codes and place names etc... if you put a lot of time into moving, you get a lot better at it, but almost nobody wants to have moving out of the top rated players cause it's almost a different game. There should be a separate tournament for moving it doesn't make sense to put it with the other 2 modes.
Of course it shouldn't be removed from the game, but moving should be way less important
and useful for players to win as it was in previous world cups and other competitiions.
Maybe Blinky reads it wrong, his edge in moving is bigger than his edge in no moving, so he thinks the problem is the format but maybe the "problem" (in quotes because obviously he's also pretty good at NM) is him
Moving is my favourite mode, but I feel like it's less made for duels format. NM/NMPZ and moving should be two seperate entities and should have totally different rules. The community as well is almost totally different between the two. It's almost like comparing regular football (soccer) and futsal (indoor soccer). Like yeah they have the same basic rules but they are totally two different things. NM/NMPZ works well with a duel type format I feel. But, moving should use another type of format entirely. Like maybe you get 5 rounds with a 3 min timer, whoever gets the most total wins. While maybe giving extra points to 5ks. The community for these types of gameplay is actually quite strong (cactus league for example) and somewhat disregarded because there's no such thing integrated into the game (yet). Also, just fewer moving players play duels because they are just less enjoyable and less meant for them. Should we have two different World Cup for both of them? Maybe sometime in the future, yes. But, I think for now geoguessr needs to focus on creating a better gamemode for us moving players
What do you mean by round by round scoring live challenges? Sorry bit confused
THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT VIDEO EVER!!!!!
I was genuinely impressed with this video, you did a really good job at explaining and editing!! I know it's been in the works for a while, but it was definitely worth it. And of course your/the collective communities ideas are nothing but SEVERELY needed :)
@@arrowheaded ❤
Moving is my favorite to watch. I do think 5k should be rewarded. That would be exciting!
i def like the idea with the multis, just needs to get tested i guess and the capped multis is also smth zi8gzag alrdy wanted to get added. Goated video
imo the player multiplier based on the previous score is genius
Kind of defeats the whole purpose of the multiplier though
along the video I was thinking smart alternatives like sum up all points at round 10... wook just made me seem stupid.
I feel like this principle is way too complicated
How about: (Not as complicated as it may look at first)
For professional competition:
- 10 rounds per game,
- Points are added for each, not subtracted
- When a game ends the player with more points wins
- The game ends after round 1 if the difference in points is 5000 or more
- The game ends after round 2 if the difference in points is 4500 or more
- The game ends after round X if the difference in points is 5000-X*500 or more
- The game ends after round 10 (maybe tiebreak if difference is less than 30)
For ranked online:
- 12 rounds per game
- 4800-x*400
Everything sounds reasonable.
Very few games reach the round limit, and those that do are the most exciting games. Getting rid of it entirely will probably not be a problem (considering you also have games with 2 or 3 rounds only that will balance it out), and with very high multipliers there would only be a few more rounds anyway. There have been some extremely long and boring games during Rainbolt tournaments, but that was because there was no time limit per round and some teams simply spent 15 minutes (!) on a difficult round because nobody would stop them from doing so. Having 1 minute per round is keeping games from getting boring already.
stacking multipliers on the player who wins rounds early has the effect of magnifying the early game instead of the late game. and it makes comebacks harder. I don't think this helps.
Yeah I don't know why people seem to think it's a good idea. It has the opposite effect to the current system
@@thesuomi8550 yeah when he first described it as basically flipping the round weight it didn’t make sense, maybe his complicated formula works tho
Watching the world cup was so awesome but I definitely got a bit upset from some of the multi merchanting. I really like the sound of that first suggestion where you only get a multiplier boost if your guess was closer. I could maybe see that being an issue for rounds where both players get the right city and the scores are like 4997 vs 4991 or something like that, so whoever's closer would be more luck-based than skill-based. Maybe there could be some critical distance where you only get the multi boost if your guess is closer than the other player's by at least, say, 10km? In any case, I hope there's some change to the multi system since I like what it tries to do but currently it feels uncompetitive at times.
Amazing video, very solid points. I also have thoughts about the WC in general, mainly that the last day really doesn't need to be 6-7 hours long (for context, I attended in person.) Towards the end it felt like they were really trying to hype up the audience and a lot of people had either left or were just exhausted.
Interesting. Love your idea of each player having their own multiplier based of the number of rounds they won. 5k health, 40s or 50s rounds make sense as well.
However i don't agree about moving. Like, I don't want to be wild, but usually people who say moving is not fair are quite bad at it (and don't like it in the first place, cause and consequence). Especially with an extra 15s. Moving requires really diffrents skill from nm/nmpz, and the choices in how to move/what to read are definitely part of it. The issue is about finding a town name purely randomly (which is rare) and just send. Am quite hesitating but maybe i agree with extra 20s rather than 15s, makes more risky to quickly send and favours 5k.
As a player who played timed moving for 3 years before switching mainly to nm because of esports formats (with tie brakers being nm or nmpz), it's also like you have 3 games out of 5 that are based on landscapes/metas skills and being good at moving is pretty useless. It's why having move in 1st and 3rd in order makes sense. Additionnaly i like the idea of having more nmpz but we also know that it s the most random mode so not the most fair (especially with the wc 2024 map).
Great video though, nice to have some reviews of duels formats. Cheers.
personally i think other esports should take some cues from geoguessr. what if you were playing counter strike and your bullets did more damage as the timer got closer to 0.
based
Moving is also the funniest part to watch for general audience. Im certain. For game to grow World Cup should attract audience. So completely removing Moving is a shot in a leg.
How is it the funniest part to watch? It's boring. Players move to get information, and whoever can move the fastest wins, it's just a stupid random potluck for the top moving players, it has to be interesting yes but luck may be fun to watch but it's not fair for people trying to make jobs out of it.
@travisallan4637 I'm not sure about fun/funniest, but most accessible for sure. For many viewers new to the game, moving is the most understandable and interactive. They can see more of the location and they have the possibility of some info they can identify such as language etc. For the non-moving modes, they can be impressive, but baffling.
I showed my teen nephews (who weren't very familiar with the game) some of the WC finals, starting with Blinky v Consus, and they were on the edge of their seats and begged to watch more even though it was bedtime! They enjoyed all of the modes but they loved seeing the 5ks that were mainly from the moving games.
Not every moving game is finals level and not everyone will feel exactly the same, but moving is definitely a valuable part of engaging new viewers and players.
nah NMPZ is way more fun
Excellent points and video production quality, hopefully this video blows up and gets the attention it deserves (and needs if the WC format should change)
What a brilliant suggestion with how the multis should be changed. Great vid man
multis aren't just an issue for the world cup, but geoguessr in general.
This is so true - we need multis removed or reworked in duels, I always turn them off for casuals 😭
@@UnformedPond416 when I challenge new players (like family I’m trying to show the game to), I always shut off multis as well. It’s very frustrating in competitive duals
I agree current format is pretty silly and in 5 years time people will look back and be shocked by how dumb it is, but I don't think all the solutions offered are good, like the multipliers based on guess quality is way too complex.
Having smaller multipliers, rewarding 5k's somehow, like by increasing the multipliers are good ideas, and letting players pick their preferred gamemode is an idea especially for knockout rounds. Getting rid of dumb stuff like the ZigZag and Orlando game would be good. Another thing they can simply do is just eliminate health and tally the score up by rounds won and make it first to X rounds, probably also has a problems and may be boring but people really got to guess better.
I second this last idea. First to 4 or 5 rounds, no health.
Eliminating health would produce even more egregiously unfair outcomes. Somebody could miss the continent 4 times while out-hedging their opponent in Luxembourg/Curaçao/Macau/Monaco/Singapore & win the game.
Great video I agree with all your points, thanks for making this. I would like to add three more points : - Let the viewers have more time to make their own guesses, now the commentators just tells you the answer in seconds, it remove a fun aspect for the viewers. -What are theses huge ugly characters with boring animations constantly on screen? The player's faces are good enough, use this space for team logo or statistics or other interesting stuff. - When both of the player screens are displayed on stream, please use the whole screen, we don't need borders this large, the players screen are already small, optimize space/information on the display, think about pleasing both new and advanced viewers.
I've found moving starts to be less bs in team games, since you can at least go both ways to find info.
It should still be in WC, but not as prominent imo
interesting point
Much more casual player here
I think moving is exciting to watch but agree it should be protected more with the clock shortening a lot less when a player guesses and a bonus for a 5k
capping the multis and making them less aggressive is also a good idea imo, maybe something like 1x/1x/1.5x/1.5x/2x/2x/2.5x/2.5x/3x/3x
Bin round limits but reduce round times after R10 and keep reducing every round after that
Maybe slightly less time for NMZP+NM than moving
And some other way of choosing a round order so that its not always the same order with 2 moving games guaranteed
Nice video man. Some cool ideas in here for sure!
I totally agree. I also think in the single elimination a best of 5 games is too short. Too much luck can happen in those few of games amongst the best players especially with the multipliers
Great vid, well thought through, I would like your ideas to be tried ! You should share it on the socials where the devs see it!
Signed, sealed, delivered!
And let me add one thing: don't get rid of the Moving Games, but make it a seperate event.
nah fuck moving, it's not about skill in geoguessr it's your skill to find signs, read signs, and find cities on a map, ain't nobody want to watch that
Something who can encourages the 5k :
If each player have is own multiplier, win a round with a 5k increase from two steps the multipliers.
Like if the multipliers are 1 / 1.5 / 2 / 2.5 / 3
You can jump from 1.5 to 2.5 with a 5k, meaning you can guess quickly, but at the begining of the game you maybe should take 5 seconds more to increase faster the multi
Thats an interesting idea, I like that. But this only makes sense for player specific multis - not overall multis. Because increasing multi's is not always good. They are nice if you want to need to make a comeback, so jumping multis with a 5K is cool
Your multiplier idea is so good that I am now going to be mad for the rest of my life if it's never implemented lmao
great video, would definitely like to see solutions such as yours implemented into the game to some extent
Not sure if I agree with your solutions, but i really like the editing and the analysis you did for this video
I honestly think that moving is the least random mode. If you can move, you will almost never think like "OH, this field might be either in Europe, Australia, Brazil or the US. Which one do I pick?" Like NM and NMPZ are also unfair formats then because there are a lot of examples when a random location can with the same likelihood be on different continents. I think we need to accept that it's GeoGUESSR. It's not chess or soccer where solely your skill determines the winner but also there is a huge aspect of luck involved. If we don't like it, we should cancel the WC altogether
In the context of a competitive game random means that you're more likely to lose to a weaker player, not that you're more likely to not know where you are. If you start moving in a direction and there's nothing and the other guy start moving in the other direction and gets a sign that says "we are near Omaha, Nebraska", he's going to beat you. I also had the opportunity to play moving on my average computer and on a super good computer and I can tell you the difference is hard to overstate, so there's a huge advantage for some people over others there. By ensuring that both players receive the same information, you definitionally ensure a greater level of fairness, and then it's about what people can do with the information they are presented with. It's not entirely fair but it's obviously more fair than moving, there isn't really an argument there.
Absolutely agree, even at the world cup it was seen when players in nmpz mode regularly confused not only countries but continents. For example, I have no chance of winning against Blinky in moving, yet I have beaten top ranked players in nm and nmpz by just randomly putting a random field on the correct continent. The problem with luck in a moving game can be easily solved by simply showing players the opponent's view. A more serious problem is that there are fewer rounds in moving than nm+nmpz, which is already unfair to moving players. Also, nm players can just instasend in a moving game, which kills the whole point of the mode. If this problem is solved, moving will easily be the least luck-dependent mode.
It's not an opinion that moving is the least random mode. it's just called being wrong. Honestly how can you even say that are you mad?
this is not an opinion, both players get the same information in NM and NMPZ so it's less random OBJECTIVELY, there is no differing opinion, there is ONLY right and wrong
Yah its crazy how you could beat someone 4 rounds in a row but then on the 5th round they beat you with one guess because of a multiplier. I hate this aspect of the game
Here's my opinion on the topics that were covered:
1) Multipliers
- Geoguessr Pro players are REALLY good. Yes, they make awful guesses from time to time, but they play quite consistently well. If every round were to have no multipliers, some games would be dragged on for soooo long (assuming no 10 rounds limit), which would become boring at some point after so many games. If the round limit was maintained, that'd stretch every game to 10 rounds and there would barely be any killing, only winning by having slightly more health than your opponent.
- However, I have to agree with you that the multipliers are far too aggressive. Personally, I believe a different increase would be better. Such a system would be:
1) Moving games: a lot of moving games are basically just NM if a player locks in super fast. Therefore, I believe the 0.5x limit should be KEPT, or even increased to incentivize moving gameplay.
2) NM games: these games are harder and require more focus, therefore the multiplier should be lower, perhaps at 0.3x per round.
3) NMPZ games: the hardest of the bunch. The multiplier here should be around 0.2x or 0.15x.
This system would be a lot more balanced for multipliers.
- As for your solution, where each player would have their own multiplier, this would run into the same problem you mentioned with the round limits. If player A scores 5000 and player B scores 4999, should A really win a full 0.5x for the next round just because of 1 point? This would be especially bad if player A got to a high multiplier just by winning a couple of rounds with a small 50 point difference and wiped out the other player when the other didn't have a chance.
2) Round limit
- Not much too say here. I agree with your solution for this.
3) Moving duels
- I can agree that moving can be up to luck, but it's a necessary gamemode. There's also insane practice involved in becoming a moving player. I wouldn't mind seeing less of it since NM and NMPZ is cooler anyways.
- And for the moving gamemode being basically a joke since it's just NM after the other guy instantly guesses, that's why I would recommend a higher multiplier with a more punishing damage, basically REQUIRING that the players move around or they'll be wiped out immediately.
In the end, everything will be based on luck. Player A might be insane at some country and never get the country, or potentially have that country appear 3 times in the game.
Just make the multis consistent, for example moving x3, nm x2 and mnpz simply no multis. (Reducing the health would lead to the same thing but keeping the multis that way would make it easier to get used to.)
That makes no sense whatsoever
@@slifer0081 Why doesnt it make sense? Makes perfect sense to me
the multis need to progressively increase...
I have been saying a lot of this for a long time and I am glad someone is finally talking about it. The most important thing to fix IMO is the multipliers, for the reasons you state. I do not agree with your solutions, although they are good, they are not audience friendly. I think they should just fix them at 2-3x and keep them fixed at all times, which fixes the main problem of the later rounds being weighted so much more.
I also think they should make rounds a bit shorter, and just remove the round limit; with a fixed multi of 2.5x and shorter rounds it will be pretty rare to have games going 15+ rounds, and the ones that do will just be good content.
On the game modes, I think that NM is the most fair and most skill intensive format. I would like them to just remove moving and NMPZ. Moving is flawed for the reason you state, it just zooming down the road until they find a usable sign and someone finds it and someone doesn't. NMPZ is just not a skill format despite everyone saying its the hardest; there are rounds that I can beat pros in NMPZ because some rounds are just random. If you watched the world cup this year you know how dumb NMPZ can be, so many tossups that it just becomes pure luck, and watching two of the best players just flipping a coin to see who wins the whole thing is not really that fun. I would propose they just make better maps to add variety, replace moving with NM but with information heavy maps (street signs, highway signs, indo/philipine region name signs, etc), that's what makes moving players good at those maps anyway, so they will still have an advantage. And NMPZ can just be replaced with NM, but with harder rural locations or something, or keep it as a tiebreaker but with a better map instead of the nonsense we saw at the world cup.
I completely agree about the current problems, and your idea for multipliers is really good!
I remember proposing something similar to each player having their own multis, so it would make learning and getting a better score in smaller countries more valuable, and getting rid of multi merchanting by winning just one round after you opponent has won last 8 rounds by a slight margin.
If you are constantly winning - your wins are getting more and more rewarded each round, but if the game goes toe to toe with each player taking rounds off each other, it would be practically the same system as it is now!
Didn't really think of the negatives regarding this, but I think the multi increase math is a bit too much, so probably should just find the sweet spot of multi increases for winning rounds.
Fix for Moving being the most important game mode imo is just swapping No Move with Moving so it's like - NM, M, NM, M, NMPZ
I know it nerfs the moving players a bit, but if you win your one moving game, you get another moving game guaranteed.
One more thing that you did not touch upon on this video, but was a big flaw was how the bracket was structured...
How comes there is even a chance of Blinky and Consus meeting in quarters? That should never happen in any game's tournament brackets, even just using any random bracket generator it would automatically seed players into the opposing sides and the soonest 2nd and 3rd place of the same group could meet should be semis, while the only time 1st and someone of the same group meets should be the finals (assuming there is no double elim introduced).
A1 should play C2-D3 winner, B1 should play C3-D2 winner, and the winner of those games should meet in semis... Or at least with how they made that group C winner is in top side of the bracket, the least they could have done is seeded A3-B2 winner against C1 instead of back into A1 ???
As a sole moving player who doesn’t really care about NM and doesn’t pay attention to NMPZ almost at all, I definitely think changes need to be made. I don’t know if a “you can only send after X amount of time” would deter people from insta-sending but I’ve seen that suggested. Definitely think changes are needed, but I’m sad that this game mode gets shit on by pro players (minus Blinky lol)
Same page bro, you're not alone!
+ don’t make the map for NMPZ impossible cause then it just comes down to randomness but otherwise I agree (but not with the less moving part💀)
Fun video! Great proposal with how the multis should work - both with the scaling based on victories and margin. Could also incorporate a bonus increase with a 5k. But your proposal would truly make earlier round and smaller countries important - genius!
I love moving and do not want to nerf it.I would prefer to keep the time at 60 sec for moving, but always give players 30 seconds. For NM and NMPZ, I think 40 is enough as you proposed. And obviously, given how hard the maps were at the current WC, the round limit is totally unnecessary.
Very clear explanations W video
I hope this video reaches the developers
i enjoyed watching the video because of the editing and the points you made
I would propose:
- 10 rounds per game,
- Points are added for each, not subtracted
- When a game ends the player with more points wins
- The game ends after round 1 if the difference in points is 5000 or more
- The game ends after round 2 if the difference in points is 4500 or more
- The game ends after round X if the difference in points is 5000-X*500 or more
- The game ends after round 10 (maybe tiebreak if difference is less than 30)
i don't get why loser doesn't get to pick the game mode for the next round, seems like the best way to go
works the same in so many other esports with map picks
that's an interesting take, I like it
Great video brah. A lot of people feeling this way but you articulated and showcased the issues in an organized and clear way. Thank you!
Great video brate, your solutions are really good, theyre so good im not even going to write my own solutions here because yours is simply better. The pros and devs need to talk about this before regionals.(ps. I remember like 2 years ago when we would get matched in gold/master alot, really Nice to see how good youre doing lately and how good you are at the game now). Cheers brate
hey wook, really like your rework of the multis and your suggestions for moving duels! however, I’ve been playing geoguessr since 2017 thanks to geowizard, and I started playing using info to get 5k in unlimited time. I’ve always been a better moving player and even if it’s eventually a separate event, there’s still a community of players who would appreciate it. A cool way to reformat moving could be giving longer time but requiring a 5k to win the round
12:24 this is cool yes, round ordering is weird
i understand the world cup not having infinite time so they can't let games drag on, but man it used to be so hype in rainbolt tournaments when games would go to round 15+
These are a ton of great points.
Multis like that would be fairer, but we wouldn't see the huge swings and comebacks that I think people really look for. But I can't think of an easy solution,
the matches should definitely just be Move, No Move, NMPZ, No Move, NMPZ. Viewers really like Moving matches and one random round at the start may not be fair but it is good for viewership.
Nice vid man ! Always interesting to debate the formats. I agree to some extent but of course disagree on others!
Moving : For me the most spectacular format to watch, although not the trendy one or the majority of players/viewers. This is the mode where people will know a bit of geography/place names/languages. Also, the ability to find information is a talent in itself, so I do not see the randomness. Then the ability to pinpoint is absolutely spectacular.
Multipliers : Agreeing that they should be reorganised and i like your proposal. The only thing : they CANNOT BE REMOVED. If so you'll end up with competitive geoguessr relying on Australia/USA/Russia guesses most of the times, which would be absolutely boring.
Round Limit : agree they should just be removed, whatever any other solution for long game prevention.
I was actually thinking there should be less time after the first player guesses, not more. I feel like there's basically no reward for guessing first as it stands
i would get rid of multis and the 10 round cap, make the health 5000 for each player and have a day at the wc for each game mode with 3 winners
jake lyons said he's not going to complete cause its sooo no move and nmpz centric now, if there was a day for moving he could do really well.
yeah and like if you 5k-ed your multiplier for this round doubles or something like this would be cool
I've always thought multis were a bit unfair. The main two arguments for the current system are comeback potential and shortning the games. Which is fair, but also unrewarding to players who consistently make better guesses, only to lose to a 5.5x multi. You can have both of these things in a different system.
(Competitive) GeoGuessr, at its heart, is a game about getting closer to the location (read getting more points). So how can someone, who has mathematically gotten more points, lose in one equally bad guess as their opponents made in the early rounds, but were not punished for as much. It's simply unfair, no matter how you twist it.
The most boring solution would be to change the system so you don't deal damage, but rather the points add up for each player. Let's say 9 rounds: 3 moving, 3 NM, 3 NMPZ. I think that would remove the inherent unfairness, but it's also super bland. Damage is fun and exciting. The split second before you see the damage dealt is the real adrenaline kick and draw of the eSport, in my opinion.
I've thought about other solutions, but I do think the ones you presented make it most exciting, while being fair. Having seperate multis for each player ensures the comback potential, if the player just starts popping off halfway through. I also agree on the point of 5k being unrewarding. It's just... a pretty graphic.
The round limit is also pointless, especially with the current system. Since the multis are linear, they balloon super high, and I think very few games would've gone over 10 rounds regardless.
casual players like moving and the world cup is supposed to promote the game to new players. I don't like or play moving but I see why it's in there. Also at some level there's a higher skill ceiling for moving, as opposed to e.g. nmpz where both players don't know and one guess happens to be closer.
most players started playing geoguessr because of rainbolt guessing in 0,1 sec, and the second statement is just straight up ridiculously false, its the opposite if anything else
@@GeoIssve most new players realize they're not rainbolt lol. And it's not "ridiculously false", there is more information in a moving round and HENCE there is less guesswork = higher skill ceiling. Although there is also more variance in the information a player receives in a given round, on average the player receives more. Chill tf out dude.
I don't think there's a clear skill ceiling for moving - Blinky clearly played multiple times better than anyone else on moving, with only Consus really seeming to be close to his level. It's much harder to tell who is the best at NM or NMPZ, they all seem to be much more similar. (Maybe MK being the best but only by a bit)
@@chir0pter still guessing with little information is what proved to be more attractive to new watchers
and casual players and the second statement is just extremely easy to see why its false, the max you can do in a round is 5k, so you are telling me that the ceiling to get that in move is higher than in the other modes?
@@GeoIssve New watchers yes, new players no. Without moving this game would die. It would be unplayable for new players And a game is doomed to fail without new players..
Good video wook
This is your best work yet!! Very well explained and very good editing!
this video is so goated I love you wookGG
Geo devs better see this.
great points - mostly I agree with you ;) here is one more proposition:
make health lower (3k maybe), no multipliers at all, round limit either stays at ten (for 60 sec rounds) or we could use your proposition to shorten the rounds to play more of them and after the final round the player with lower health loses... this way every round matters the same, which is my biggest concern about the game rn and you have to be consistent throughout the match...
in an online tournament Rainbolt just switched the order of Move/NM in both the BO3 and BO5 and it was much better actually...
honestly the only major issue with making health lower (especially as much as 3k) is the possiblity for a round 1 knockout - 3k health only really works well for a team tournament format
@@crefour5866 Yeah I think 5K is better because if you manage to 5k and the other person just doesn't guess that's basically deserved at that point 😂
Commenting to boost the vid in the algorithm
great video
I think the multipliers should be just random. Like round#1 2.7x, round#2 1.2x, and limited to 3x
Moving games should be less or none.
6000 health means that you can't win the match in one round; plus it might happen that both get 5k in the first round
I think the multi system you proposed is simply too complicated. Most players and viewers enjoy simpler multis where you know whats happening and how much is enough. I do agree 5k should be incentivise more. For the Bo5 i think having M-NM-NMPZ-M-NMPZ would balance it better, maintaining two moving game while also showcase more NMPZ. Finally, one thing to consider would be using another map for Moving vs NM/NMPZ, since the skillset require is different, a different map make for moving game could better showcase why that gamemode does require skill more than plain luck, with the appropriate map moving games can be way more fun to watch
I agree with everything you have mentioned in this video. I liked the edits too especially the Bob the Builder ones.
Since they did the separate rating for each mode they should also separate them in the world cup so we get a champion of each game mode that seems a little more fair especially since they separated them and have separate leaderboards
I really enjoyed the cup but I think you provide some good suggestions
goated video
Moving provides equal information to each player, but some players make better choices than others.
Let's get rid of moving. It's the worst mode ever. Horrible to watch the blurry screen while we excruciatingly wait for the next scene to load. Fast moving is often the best strategy, and it's the most boring experience. I play the daily challenge, and the best strategy is often to literally just fast move for 2 minutes straight to get to a sign.
Competitive players on their way to suck all fun out of the games they play:
I mean, the idea of moving is to have players use placenames, river names and such for guessing. Can just have NM games with more info instead xD
Great editing, great video!
Agree and disagree. Very good video for pros and newbies. One thing I’d say is Don’t lower the round time to 40 seconds…for moving rounds. But maybe 30 seconds for NMPZ or 45 for NM and the same or more rounds for them.
having 3 different timers makes sense, I could def see that
I'm pretty sure they implemented the 6k health as the standard due to the possibility of being 5ked and you getting 0. The game would be done in one round.
In comp, you would insta rage quit due to the amount of elo you just lost in a few seconds.
good vid
9:10 noooo its almost killing any comeback mechanism in game
Agree with all of this good video
Upvote for freedom.
5:20 worst analogy ever existed. Bro just changed system points to powers of two out of nowhere, its not even close like this in Geoguessr..
I actually really like the 10 round limit. It puts a hard cap on game length, which ensures no super long games and makes organizing events much easier. Declaring ties can bring about a lot of issues so i think it would be for the best to avoid it. Playing a tie breaker reintruduces the chance of really long games. What if the tiebreaker need another tiebreaker? etc. I think it is fair to say whoever has the most health at the end wins. They played the best after all. That ofc assumes the multipliers are updated, as i think these are where a lot of unfairness comes from. I also think 6k health has been added to ensure games cannot be over after round one, something i think is good.
bro really completely ignored the 1 hp difference wins, that should NEVER happen and is completely unacceptable, you're literally thinking it's okay to win a round by luck, IN A LIVE ESPORT not a single round should be decided by luck, and yet entire games were decided by it
Very well explained video
I 100% support removing Moving completely. Watching nmpz pros click around for 50 seconds is an absolute vibe-killer, not to mention that it occurs TWICE by default.
That said, moving is almost certainly easier to watch for new viewers, rather than the absolute sweatfest that is nmpz and nm.
Actually, I just thought of something. Why not go in order of decreasing information? Like:
G 1: No moving
G 2: No moving, no zooming
G 3: No moving, no panning, no zooming
G 4: nmpz with shorter rounds
G 5: nmpz with even short rounds
nmpz pros WON'T click around for 50 seconds in a moving game.
I literally live in Stockholm why is this video the way I found out about this world cup?
damage multipliers also make learning smaller countries more important. you left that out. edit: ok you mention it much later
banger video
Good ideas man ❤
Interesting suggestions
They need to watch this…
opinionated wook 🔥🔥 the moving duels take is valid
🐐
I'm fine with multis, when its bo3 or bo5 luck isnt as impirtant.
BUT FUCK THE 10 ROUND LIMIT LIKE WHATTTT???? THATS SOOOO BORING>
going into this i expected some baseless criticism but after watching this i think you have some really great ideas, i hope the devs get to hear us out and see the potential in some of these suggestions
I agree with everything you said in this video.
true, awesome ideas
Nah multipliers are cool. I ove to see underdogs winning more often with them, when 1 good round is enough for comeback if you are alive. I think it would be more boring to watch without multis. The game is still random in a sense that 10 drops are fully random. Making it little more random with order of drops matters too is not a big deal. And who cares about "full fairness" anyway, game should be fun to watch in a first place
Wook you cooked with this one.
Great video
I like the ideas, even if I don't necessarily agree with everything.
Main thing I disagree with is close scores. If we're not allowing ties, then I think if you lose by even 1 point it's tough, but that's the game, the opponent was slightly better by some metric even if that metric is plonk luck. Of course multis could mess with that, I'd do away with those entirely, though I really like the individual multiplier idea as well.
I think moving being there is fine. It's a different skillset and representing it is good. There are options to explore to balance it being first. Maybe have different rules for it slightly in terms of time limits, making it moving - NM - NMPZ - repeat, or have the players pick whether they want moving/NM/NMPZ could be ideas (like how in other games teams will pick map/character/whatever). The latter could be done so that higher seed/winners bracket chooses first or something.
Still, as you said, fantastic world cup despite the issues. Lots of potential in the game as an esport I think and there's a lot of opportunity still to find a format that works.
Banger
Pls talk about the shitty ranked system next