Tughril vs Indian frigates: head-to-head combat analysis
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- Опубликовано: 2 дек 2021
- We put the Type 54AP frigate of the Pakistan Navy, the Tughril, against the three frigate classes of the Indian Navy, in hypothetical one-on-one combat encounters.
We put the Tughril up against the Brahmaputra class, the two subclasses of the Talwar class, and the Shivalik class frigates of the Indian Navy.
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Tughril is being compares with 2 decades old frigates.
Better comparison would be with Shivalik and 'Nilgiri' class frigates of Indian Navy
tughril/type54A is also an old design, from mid 2000s i think. Its just that Tughril of PN is newer and updated ships. So comparison is fair. Besides he has compared it with Shivalik and indian destroyers too.
As for Nilgiri, we will see when it enters service. By then we will know abt its official specs.
Than you should compare nilgiri with upcoming Jinnah Class, being built by Pakistan as it's first indigenous frigate with help from Turkey. 6 of those are planned. While PN is also looking for destroyers, check out the type56.
@@sajidahussain108 do you guys even have money to construct 6 frigates and destroyers?? Considering you guys are living from hand to mouth i dont think you guys would be able to complete the construction af all 6
@@KKPR533 not destroyers but 6 new Jinnah Class which are based on Istanbul Class but with Pak design and bigger tonnage.
@@sajidahussain108 okay, but the question still remains about the funding, coz naval ships require huge initial investments plus the upkeep is also very costly
Absolutely love your videos.
Glad you like them!
Boss compare it with Nilgiri class frigate.. and in future it also equipped with additional 48 vlsrsam... Take that in to account also
nilgiri has entered service yet? because we r also designing better ships her her, ie Jinnah class.
@@Blackbirdz2000 u guys designing??? Didnt knew pak has shipbuilding capabilities...could you share the source
@@KKPR533 Jinnah class, an upcoming heavy frigate of 6000 tons is being designed in Pak with Turkish help. Our NRDI(Naval Designs Institute) is designing that. NRDI also has full Design rights on that ship. Ship will start building 2050/26. U probably didn't know abt it.....but if u google it u will find out.
After this, they plan to design a Submarine too upto 4000 tons. Which will start in late 2020s or early 2030s.
@@Blackbirdz2000 yeah just googled it, but looking at ur current condition I don't think the IMF would allow u guys to start this project, still it would be underarmed when compared to our new nilgiri class frigates(32 Barak ER and 8 Bramhos 700+km range)..bdw 5 of the planned 7 ships have already been launched rest 2 are under construction, hopefull by 2025 we will have all the 7 ships operational
@@Blackbirdz2000 Turkey makes it's own ships from spain & Italy what they will help u in stealth frigates building? 🤣 end result 1971 Karachi harbour.
Tughril carries a mix of YJ12 and HQ9 in it's 32 cell VLS. Considering that it's gonna keep atleast 8 missiles as an offensive option, it's not smart to assume that they're gonna use 32 HQ9s to intercept brahmos. Also Indian Navy's version of Brahmos has 450km range, not 290. The 290km range Brahmos Block 1 is only used on Rajput class destroyers which are being retired
Hoping the SAMs aboard Indian frigates are soon replaced with the indigenous VLSRSAMs & MRSAMs. Also, since India is in MTCR now and has enhanced BrahMos range, shouldn't the upgraded BrahMos with 450km range be considered?
You are right my friend may be talwar and brahmaputr class are less capable than tugril but the thing is these frigate of Indian Navy are about 20 years old than tugril so it's obvious that they are inferear. If you want real comparison than you have to compare tugril with nilgiri class frigate of Indian Navy. although they were commission in 2022. And other thing is tugril is fully made in China and India is making them in home with the help of foreign naval assistance.china is more advanced in shipbuilding than India. Pakistan is simply purchasing them. So if Indian frigate are less powerful they will definitely boost our capabilities to enhance shipbuilding. And other thing we are not going to war with anyone. If unfortunately war breakout than we have more options.
That's pretty fair. The improved Talwar that are being ordered from Russia seems to be on par with the Tughril as well.
LOL! no one is comparing here local industries. Whats this inferiority complex with indians ? . He is simply comparing warships and not the local industries. Also, in the war no one really cares if anything is bought or built in house, only thing matters is how much capability you bring in the war. Having said that I really acknowledge and appreciate india's shipbuilding capacity. Though its dwarf by China but its still is very impressive.
@@usermk99 I didn't lie
1. Tugril may be superior to talwar and brahmaputr class but not nilgiri class.
2. It's not inferiority complex but the truth.
3. Indian navy has more and powerful ships so naturally we have more options against tugril in war and that will show in war result.
4. Local manufacturing is the real strength. If you don't care about that that's okk but you have to answer one thing why china, US and Russia is powerful in both militeraly and economically. Military industry is of 2 trillion dollar.
@@varunyadav9573 No doubt in it, local ship building / manufacturing has great advantage in terms of self-reliance / economy. I can only hope Pak achieves it in future.
@A Kol it means you have no idea, about military histories.. only got it through indian media ? Let me tell you facts about Ghazi, before that search PNS Hangor as well which evade entire indian fleet, sank 1 INS khurki and damaged other in epic action. For Ghazi, everyone asked india for the wreckage as it was in india's waters. india denied access as it would have clearly indicate that sub was destroyed during mine laying . not by any indian action.. india even gave medals but decades later their cheif revealed they had no role.
See below statements given by indian navy:
Admiral Hiranandani maintained that the submarine almost certainly suffered an internal explosion but its causes are debatable.
Commodore Roy also concluded that "at that time, how the Ghazi was sunk remained unclear as it does today."
In 2011, former Indian naval chief, Admiral Arun Prakash quoted in the national security conference that [Ghazi] had sunk under mysterious circumstances, "not by INS Rajput as originally claimed."[64][65] Parkash later published an article in Indian media in 2021 in which he stated that PNS Ghazi sank due to an internal explosion.[66]
In 2003, the Indian Navy again sent its divers to overlook its investigation and the divers recovered some items including the war logs, officials backup tapes from her computers, and mission files that were displaced in Eastern Naval Command of Indian Navy, but the divers who studied the wreckage confirmed that the submarine must have suffered an internal explosion which blew up its mines and torpedoes.[57] Another theory suggests an explosion of hydrogen gas which violently built up inside the submarine while its batteries were being charged underwater.
In 2010, Lieutenant-General J. F. R. Jacob of Eastern Command mentioned in an article that "Ghazi was destroyed in an accident in which Indian Navy was not involved. There were many opinions from authors of the Indian side who also shared this scepticism of the Indian Navy’s official stance."[58] Jacob also stated in the article that the Indian Navy had no information about the sinking of Ghazi until they were informed by the local fishermen the next day
An independent testimony stems from an Egyptian naval officer who was at that time serving on an Egyptian submarine which was undergoing refit in the harbour. He has confirmed the occurrence of a powerful explosion in the vicinity of the harbor late at night. There were no naval ships, as reported by this officer, outside the harbor at that time.
In 1972, both the United States and the Soviet Union offered to raise the submarine to the surface at their expense.[52] The Government of India, however, rejected these offers and allowed the submarine to sink further into the mud off the fairway buoy of Visakhapatnam.[52]
Do a single 052D vs entire Taiwanese navy...
Now come bro!
If u want then do with our single brahmos armed frigates with Type 55 destroyers !
I bet u our ships will defeat even most powerful destroyers of Chinese navy 😎
Keep on dreaming. @@alphatrnmemes9462
I am not enitrely sure that Brahmos Range cam be taken as 290 k.m.
These are getting manuf in India, and India has completely and successfully indigenised the Seeker.
Extended Range versions have been tested successfully from IN's destroyers various times, Navy has obviosly not divulged range of ERs but people tend to put it between 500 - 800 K.m.
Anyways, in conflict, it will not be ship on ship, but everything will be used. P8Is tracking, sunobuoy network will be used in tandem.
With motor mouth like yours , you can shoot india bragsmos 10000000X sky HIGH . So many things of India already shot 1000000X sky High just like that ! 🤣🤣🤣
improved brahmos isn't in service with these frigates. Only destroyers have tested them as u said. We still dont know if they r officially inducted in IN.
@@Blackbirdz2000 Brahmos ER with 800km is now officially bought
@@ChandranPrema123 official word plz? not internet hear say.
don't worry about it, radars on those small frigette not gonna see anything beyond 200km. Even those on C band Aesa on Visakhapatnam is amateur. Who the hell uses C band? C band radars are totally bind for anything flying below 15 meters.
So at detection range of 33 km tughril is able to unload its whole salvo of 32 sams with 2.8 mach missiles closing 33km ? ..... can i get ur weed dealers number?
Rather you agree or not he mentioned that the missile will not arrive all at the same time. So yes. If the Brahmos arrive in pairs or are fired several seconds apart that gap allows for the four hq16 vls to fire at each missile. In addition he mentions the possibility for intercept. It really does not require weed to comprehend just a little math. That being said your other question ? its 867-5309 ask for Jenny! or Randy.
@@TP-ie3hj bromhos can do swarm attacks meaning hitting the same target at the same time from different directions and tughril is so advanced it can unload its whole sam cache in single digit seconds ....wow.... then i suppose jenny is proving some good shit
@@drunkcat1713 Obviously you did not watch the video as this was also covered. He actually covered it in detail the tot function of brahmos as well as the distance to target to allow for this function. While you do not have to agree with his opinion the opening of the video might also be of use to you where he points out that it would be his opinion. So while you think yourself clever it looks more like you did not watch the video, or simply have a hard time with comprehension? You are pointing to things you think are unseen or unknown and again they were all covered. In the end its tomato tomato. So far his video and knowledge seem to be far superior to you insults. In the end he makes a far better case than you.
@@TP-ie3hj it looks like me u r trying to doge the question altogether ... point out where he says tughril can defend a salvo of bromhos not one by one but as a salvo load. telling others that they cant understand only u can shows ur own insecurity... get another joint it might help
@@drunkcat1713 If I had a joint I would smoke it so I might better understand why you think I have dodged anything? The video can be watched by you at any time. I would suggest you do that, while I am pretty crafty I can not edit his video. A wise old Indian told me that the man who made the video points out its his opinion. thats not true there was no Indian I just watched the video. pay attention at 29 seconds where he points to his intent to be objective as he can be, even though he has a bias. I would then suggest you watch really close at 3:44 "Brahmos is clearly the more powerful missile" then again at 9:11 and lastly pay really close attention at 11:21. If you do that you will see where he puts in writing "will attempt to intercept Brahmos" he does not say will kill them all no problem. "attempts" In addition he covers the rate of fire for the VLS of Brahmos and the ability to course correct mid flight, its speed and ability to use them , time on target in pairs. Yes the ability to make them arrive together. Then he points to detection range of the radars and the four vls on the Pak ship that has a rate of fire to still send four sams per missile no matter if they come alone or all together. This is the part where math was done so....? Anyway in the end it is his opinion that the PAK ship is the more effective one. His video is pretty damn well made and again he has backed his opinion with that video. You have nothing but drug usage claims and a hard on for a fancy named p800. You have posted nothing that would counter any of his claims. Hell you did not even bother to listen to the fact he pointed out what you claimed...his video says Brahmos can do what you claim...watch it.
Compare it with Nilgiri class frigate, talwar class frigate is 20 year older then Tughril so there is no compromise between then , Nilgiri class frigate is new
The improved talwar class has Barak 8 missiles. But it also has elta elm 2248 radar. That is superior to even the dragon eye radar of type 052d destroyer.
no, improved talwars will have vls based shitil and fregat m2m radars
🤣😂dragon eye radar.......kid Israel is a small n insecure country, better is not to take their claims too seriously. Pakistan had also purchased their radars once, didn't find them impressive, nor found their corner shot gun concept practical. Their Navy out of all their services is extremely inexperienced and doesn't have much performance to show in the war they participated. I would take their claims abt their weapons/sensors with skepticism. Infect even yr own IN has better performance and experience then their Israeli navy and has made better decisions generally then Indian Army or Indian Air Force. Same cant be said for the Israeli navy as well.
As for type 54A/P, it has 2 radars, one is that main radar sr2410c AESA radar 250km range, other is Type 517 which is a VHF radar but with almost same range as that Israeli radar. So yes on paper that Israeli radar has the adv. but Pakistani armed force also integrate themselves with Datalinks , SATCOM and IBMS too. Pakistan Navy uses datalink called ''Green Link''. It was the first ever service in Pakistan to ever deploy n use datalinks. Inshort they were the ones who introduced this concept of datalinks in armed forces.
So don't buy too much into mere individual radar ranges on a particular ship class as Indian fleet itself is gonna get detected way before they detect Pakistani fleet to launch AShMs at them through our LR-MPAs or through SATCOMs.
@@Blackbirdz2000 pak purchased israeli radar🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣...is the sourve of ur info a madrassachap maulvi?🤣🤣
@@KKPR533 lol u didnt know that? it was brought during Musharaf's era. back in mid 2000s. Google it. Along with it we brought 2 refueling trucks too for our F16C/D Blk 52s. They r right now in PAF base Shahbaz.
I work for PAF myself!
Great video dear, thanks for clarifying AShp Missiles on Tughril. I thought there are only four. Perhaps success in real war only depends upon early detection by Reconnaissance assests Like MPA's, Satellites etc. And both navies are well equipped with these, In short it all depend on battle management.
Thank you sir. I think it's more likely to be eight missiles, but it's also possible there is only four. If it's four missiles, it probably won't change the conclusion vis-a-vis the Brahmaputra and Talwar, but the Shivalik might be a more balanced scenario. Agree that reconaissance assets, including space-based ones, will have a decisive influence in practice. The Indian Navy will of course have its Kolkata and the Visakhapatnam class destroyers, which being bigger ships are much better armed than the Tughril, including in missile interception. Please help share this video, if you think it's of interest for others too :)
@@EurasiaNaval why didn't you compared the EW suit and decoys in detail of each ship?
comparison between frigate of 1999 and frigate of 2021 ,
No mention of torpedo , rocket launcher ,buk defense system of shiwalik, grande launcher , and finally yf12 is not operational till now .Compare about radar range ?
@@EurasiaNaval why didn't u mention about shatil 1 and hq 1ae
@@EurasiaNaval do you really think that 8yj12 can match 8brahmos. If you have learned physics you should know there is something called Kinetic Energy. For the fact the kinetic energy of brahmos is just double of YJ12. And also if you are comparing the ship on over the horizon Combat how can you forget helos carried by these ships. And you were rating Chinese 730 better than AK630.
This isn't mid-19th century naval warfare where armour on ships or kinetic energy of offensive weapons matters. If the YJ-12 or Brahmos hits either of these ships at terminal velocity they'll out of action for good, if not sink. Also, OTH combat doesn't matter here as HAL Chetak/Sea King and Z-9C on either of these frigates focus on ASW missions with dipping sonar. India might possess more interoptability when it comes to Naval communication but that doesn't affect that the air defense weapons on Indian frigates are no good when engaging a missile like the YJ-12/CM401. Also, as Chinese made the Type 730 CIWS based on the Dutch goalkeeper, its better than any Russian weapon system anyday, or Moskva wouldn't be on the bottom of the Black Sea right now thanks to 2 subsonic missiles made by Ukraine, which has grossly less naval capabilities than India or Pakistan.
This is just a defense analysis and there's no need to cry about it.
Type 054 most Advanced for Pakistan navy
Okay before Pakistani ship enter the Indian water INS Visakhapatnam class destroyers intercept Pakistani warship what happened then
lol what is this?
one missing comparison , the crew training of indian navy is bad bad bad
Usa is allah allah allah
If you need to compare between Indian and Pakistan frigrate then the best comparison would be between these classes.
1. Brahmaputra and older talwar class and Zulfiquar class as both these classes are of same decades
2.nilgiri and jinnah class both are future frigrate of both ship
3. Tughriq and enhanced talwar calss both are of today's generation
We don't know anything about Jinnah class frigate
@@aliarham6209 tu pakistani hai na fir bhi kaise nahi pata???😑😑
@@thenoobdashow7428 han
@@thenoobdashow7428 magr abhi aik prototype bhi nahi bana na hi koi specifications kahin bhi mention hain
We have to consider the Type-054AP's AshMs are not installed within VLS tubes but mounted sideways with 4 facing each side. It will be difficult to fire all 8 missiles at the same target simultaneously.
Can be done, missile can turn right after launch, it will slighty reduce the range.
Harbah/Babur III can be launched from VLS. the land based Babur versions r launched vertically.
Masha Allah,,Very Very informative video again 👌
CM-302 (export version of YJ-12) missile has a maximum speed Mach 2-4 (depending on altitude).
Think Pakistan may have received the newer CM-401.
@@ALWH1314 your CM401 can have maximum range of 290km !
While our maximum ships are armed with AESA radar with range of 350 to 450km range !
Which can fire 400km range variant of brahmos or 650km variant!
@@alphatrnmemes9462 lol Tughril herself has a better AESA radar then all yr ships be it AESA/PESA. Also those Milgim Corvettes have AESA too.
As for yr range, Thats why Babur-III/Harbah missile is made, and is even offered for export. He hasnt covered that missile in his video as just like Harbah, there isnt any official conformation of improved brahmos being refitted on these ships yet.
However in times to come, harbah series will become standard subsonic missile in PN, with well over 500km range.
Also Pakistan isnt a member of MTCR so following its rules as strictly as its members dont really apply on Pakistan. So take these export version ranges with a chin of salt.
@@Blackbirdz2000 bro don't rant unnecessarily!
It become he
@@Blackbirdz2000 Regarding your missiles capability so frankly these missiles r cheap copies of Tomahawk which don't have any capable seekers/guidence and other things which can easily any SAM system to shoot it down!
Whereas when you try to develop a missiles which is intended to hit moving targets so it needs very sensitive and capable seekers to acquire the target whereas it also need midcourse guidence which your radars can't provide actually none ship radar can provide!
Whereas u need other systems to lock and provide guidence to missile!
In this many things r required like Sattelites which r very crucial thing for hitting a target which is beyond the horizon!
This is y no anti ship missiles are developed for range of beyond 500km!
All AShM which can go beyond 500km is due to their residual thrust which keep them to 530-550 km thats all!
Either its Brahmos/tomahawk/YJ18/kalibar/exocet or any missile
But its only Pakistan in whole universe who have developed a missile( only claims😂) which can hit ships around 700-800km😂
Now i don't wanna argue with u f00l!
Good unbiased analysis. Cheers
Thanks for viewing, friend
2 major biases in this comparison.
BrahMos's range is round bout 400 kms-500 kms soon after India became a member of the MTCR in 2016. If this video was made about 6-8 years ago, the range would make sense. 2017-18 onwards, all BrahMos ranges were unlocked to its maximum of upto 500 kms. Modern Destroyers like the Kolkata and Vishakapatnam Class are being quipped with the 700 kms+ BrahMos-ER , but thats another story.
Second, Tugril holds 4 YJ12, not 8. Talwar and Shivalik both hold 8, twice the number.
So, there's a good chance that Talwar/Shivalik will launch and attack first, while it stays out of the range of YJ12.
Apart from that in other overall comparision, Shivalik has better Anti-ship capabilities, better anti sub capabilities, better aviation capabilities, better range and endurance, better speed.
Tugril has a better AESA radar.
Airdefence? Well, Tugril has better quality with 32 HQ16 which is better than Barak 1 or Shilt. But Shivalik has more SAMs. 54 , 32 Barak 1 and 24 Shilt. So i assume both are comparable.
I admit Tughril is better than Talwar Class though, but not as good as Shivalik.
In conclusion, ur literally comparing a 3 decade old frigate with a modern one, so hell no it aint unbiased
@@darkassassin4166 When faced with Tugril, you will not complain that Talwar is junk. The same thing happened with MiG-21.
HQ-16 naval version has 70km range
That is the hq-16B version, sir. My understanding is that the Tughril only use the Hq-16A.
@@EurasiaNaval but HQ-16A is not naval version well can't confirm it lets see
correction :two type 1130 ciws
Fair - I think that info wasn't out at the time
1130 is a lot faster than 730, think it also has an improved tracking radar.
@@EurasiaNaval its crazy how fast the information is changing these days
The problem with the tughril is that it's anti ship missiles are stored in slanted launchers. The entire ship will have to be turned to fire all missiles.
This is the old soviet theory.
@@biochemwang2421 any slanted launcher is to turn inthe direction of the target to fire. Even the American harpoons
Bhramos is not 290 KM rang missiles through software it was kept below 300 & speed below 3 mach but the day india joined MTCRby virtue of change is software settings it was 450 + 490 km range & speed of mach 3 but the next block version which is going on every ship is 890+ km non classified range & speed of mach 3.5
China needs to give Pakistan Type 052D with YJ-18s.
True after delivery of type 054AP the next one is type 052D on the list
the 052D is available for sale，but Pakistan can not afford it，it's too expensive for Pakistan Navy.
And money to operate it.
It's not that affordable, unfortunately...
@@charliez4066 True, and even if China sold it at a discount price, the maintenance cost is still too high for Pakistan. 052D uses gas turbine engines, which is much more expensive to operate.
Well the winner will be only the one who will win in naval battle
All these three class ships will be equipped with Brahmos's new version and new air defence systems. However excellent review from your side.👏
Glad you think so, sir
BRAHMOS is having a range of 600 kms. India will detect any Pakistani ship by satellite only. Once detected any ship within 500 km radius will have a tough time.
You got some things wrong. But no issue INDIAN navy dose not release any pics of its ships . To be clear Nilgiri class ships air defence has been changed. Now they have 32 cell vlsrsam (30) km range and 16 cell MRSAM (100)km range. Brahmos with 450km range.
There is no evidence to suggest what you are claiming regarding revised air defense arrangement of the Nilgiri class FFGs.
Victory is not determined by equipment alone, but the will of the pakistani people to stand up to the Indian navy, just like how the Ukranian stood up to the Russian army
It is if you don't want your civilians to suffer.
Oh crap..any war between India and Pakistan either is going to be of very limited region like Kargil or just to shoot of maximum assets..i wonder in case both have nukes who wanna have a full fledged war for months
And that's how east pakistan became an independent nation when pakistan fought India
@@improbablynotahooman5782and that’s why Bangladesh is now a vassal state of India !!!
I wonder how will the pns alamgir do against Indian frigates
Probably will do fine against Brahmaputra. Against the Talwar class and above, it depends on whether it can get off the first shot - I think it's disadvantaged overall because the Talwar is more stealthy and has stronger cruise missiles, but Talwar's defence is quite poor.
Well, we found out how important air defense is since the Moskva sinking. Now matter how much offense you have, if you can be easily sunk, you're dead. Also don't trust Russian equipment. Their specifications might be overstated. After all, two subsonic cruise missiles manage to hit the Moskva which was the Flagship of the Black Sea fleet.
I think to be fair, the CIWS on the Indian ships (and the Moskva) are the old Soviet AK-630. I believe the new Russian Pantsir-M would be a lot more capable
It does not appear that the Moskva was hit by cruise missiles as you are so convinced it was.
The picture of the Moskva and the list of 1 dead and 25 missing do not indicate even a missile hit.
@@brianm1907 What are you talking about? One side is burned. There is no way to tell that caused the damage, especially since it is sitting partially in water.
Huge coincidence that Ukraine fired two harpoonskis and on the same day, the ship had a ammo explosion.
It's not as if the Russians haven't been operating that ship for 40 years. What they said is correct. A fire did set off the ammo. What they didn't say was that the fire was caused by a missile.
@@felixsu375
If you can see carefully the images at least 4 to 5 Ukrainian missiles hit the Moskova not just 2.
Most probably the Ship was saturated with 20 or more missiles then the ADS gets exhausted which resulted in sinking of the ship.
We all Shaw what happened to superior pakistani navy in 1971 war
Time changes. Besides, back then, the Pakistanis didn't have any kind of missile armed vessels, so your statement is factually incorrect. This coming from an Indian by the way.
yea u arent indian quit lying bud, if u actually knew something and didnt only watch this. u would know how indian navy is 100x more trained, better armed, experienced. better tech. i can justify my answer if u dont agree@@anirecapped.
Tughril frigates equipped with HHQ-16B 75km of range plus CM-401 Anti ship missile systems which is totally nightmare for Indian navy
Don't underestimate them. The exact capibility of Brahmos and Barak-8 are still unknown. Their new versions are also it's way. I don't think they would inform that they already equipped it within its fleet. Don't forget that they put flames on high guarded Karchi port with some missile boats.
Nightmare??!! Dude, first of all, there is no evidence to suggest your Tughrils come with the B variant and secondly, even if they did, those are still semi active radar homing missiles, not particularly useful against sea skimming objects, not to mention travelling 3 times the speed of sound.
And finally, all you will have are these 4 FFGs against the entirety of the Indian Navy, you think these ships will stand a chance against that level of concentration of firepower??
And besides, why do you think we will even send our warships when a squadron of Su 30s or Mig 29Ks from one of the aircraft carriers would be more than enough to sink your paltry number of surface vessels?? Ever thought of that, pal?? I think not.
Ha ha..Brahmos range after MTCR is already getting increased and turgil primary radar has short comings for high speed missile tracking, for tht reason Chinese don't use it on its 054..total disregard for Brahmos high speed throughout its flight time .
Those P-800 copies were shot down by the patriot.
@@netsimamthe ukrainians even claim to have shot down kinzhal hypersonic missiles , dosent mean it's true
Excellent analysis. Some credible reports suggest that PN Tughril is also equipped with Chinese Hypersonic missiles. If this was true, what impact would it have in hypothetical situations against Indian naval ships under reference. Can the Anchor person throw some light on this
I actually made a video on that topic. Please have a look if interested. I talked about the general implication though, rather than in a one on one encounter.
@@EurasiaNaval sure, would watch the video
Also since talwar class, brahmputra class are two decades old design so we cannot compare it. Well the real comparison would be between upgraded talwar class and tughriq class. I believe you should reconsider your final outcome. Strting with air defence ,hq16 just provide coverage till 50 km whereas Barak 8 missile will provide coverage till 100 km it means Barak 8 radar can detect yq16 missile at better range compare to hq16.Also you haven't mentioned the fact that hq16 uses passive Radar homing to detect target whereas Barak 8 missile uses active homing radar which provide great technologically edge to enhanced talwar class in air defence. Also I don't know your source but tughriq class uses yj12 which while traveling at a mid-course speed of Mach 1.5-2 and accelerating to Mach 3 or higher during the terminal flight phase. So it doesn't uses same mach 2 speed over its course but mostly in ylteeminal phase which is usually 20 km in every missile so easy to intercept by Barak 8 missile whereas brahmos always has more than mach 2 speed throughout its range thus making it difficult for hq16 to intercept ,here I am not saying it will not intercept but very difficult as it uses passive homing device which are more suspectible to electronic warfare which you haven't mentioned used in today's warfare
I didn't do a comparison with the improved Talwar class and the Tughril. The simple reason is that the improved Talwars (the ones being purchased from Russia) are not in service yet. They still need fitting out and sea trials. The Barak-8 may have a range of 100 km, but sea-skimming missiles like the YJ-12 cannot really be tracked effectively until they are at the radar horizon. Your 100 km is only of use to you if you have AEWAC assets that has cooperative engagement capability, or else the range is useful only for engaging aircrafts. Moreover, for reasons of the 2x12 VLS on the improved Talwar, only 2 SAMs will go after each incoming missile, whereas 4 HQ-16A will go after each Brahmos. That means something. Anyway, I'm busy now, but good chat. Thanks for viewing.
@@EurasiaNaval I believe you only read about Barak 8 on my comments not the entire thing hq16 even though you can fire 4 or say 8 simulatonusly have high suspectibility to get jammed so of no use compare to Barak 8 missile which has active radar homing
@@sanjupathani1047 correction
HQ 16 uses semi active radar homing seeker
May not be as good as active homing seeker but is also difficult to jam
Also compare it with Indian destroyers. Please do that too!
It is nowhere the firepower of the Kolkata and Visakhapatnam classes. It won't be too interesting. That said, I am unsure if the Delhi and the Rajput classes can have the edge on it, because of air defence issues.
@@EurasiaNaval then please make one and we will also watch it.
wdym air defence issues, they carry barak 8 missiles which have active homing so means can not be radar jammed and i saw your comments above claiming pakistan has 4 missiles to defend against every one indian brahmos. yea sure but the brahmos travels at mach 4 and the new mk2 variant will be at mach 7, you can fire all the missiles you want but there wont be much help if they can't even catch it on radar, that said, I am unsure pakistan stands a chance against the indian navy because of 100 different issues that you are aware of yourself@@EurasiaNaval
Firstly Indian Navy and Air force uses 450&600 km brahmos varient whereas Indian army uses 290km varient. Secondly these are latest ships Pakistan is getting so you can't compare it with brahmaputra class and if we talk about Air defense then Pakistan is already having HQ16 Ground based air defence systems and they are already facing problems since last 5 years and also few months ago Indian Army's brahmos missile miss fired while maintenance and it went deep into Pakistan and self destroyed itself by hitting ground. No Pakistani Air defense system intercepted it. And if Pakistan is inducting new ships then India is also inducting 7 new nilgiri class stealth frigates, 4 vishakapatnam class destroyers and for future (13,000 ton) 6 project 18 class destroyers
Let me correct you I think India will be purchasing 8 new gen 13000 ton des
@@RahulKumar-cf3pr we are not purchasing, we are building our own destroyers. It will have more indigenous components than previous destroyers.
India's many powerful weapons are in last devloping stages
Thats what you said 20 years ago.
@@netsimamhe's a troll from bangaldesh. Btw , india already has Vishakhapatnam class in service , much superior to any Pakistani warship
India will upgrading ships with more powerful indigenous weapons in next few years
You sound like a troll
Nilgiri class solos tugril lol
Still no match for China’s type 54D. Try as hard as you will. Best thing is it’s all Chinese made,
Very informative 👏
Current frigates in service are old. However upcoming nilgiri class nd new talwar class will change the dynamics.
Our Pakistani friends are getting too exited.....MF STAR RADAR, BARAK 8/ER Air defence missile systems, BRAHMOS ER, VL SRSAM these are some systems Pakistan navy Warships cannot match.
All ships mentioned in video was 20 years old. Kolkata class destroyer, vishakhapattanam class destroyer, and upcoming Nilgiri class and advanced Talwar class frigates has unmatched firepower.
👍
One of the Best frigate Design.
Avendo la marina indiana portaerei è molto difficile per la marina del Pakistan tenerle testa . Sono più i sottomarini della Pakistan navy le armi più pericolose. Grazie del video.
india has ordered MH-60 Romeo choppers and P-8 Orion's they are submarine hunters
The Chinese frigates are much lighter with 4,200 tons, I think India frigates are much stronger
Ahh, the Sumo wrestler school of naval combat
Quit embarrassing the rest of us Indians, if you will please.
@@EurasiaNaval Lolololol!! 🤣🤣
Russian equipments are poor but cheap Chinese copy of that is good .
Look like it's a madarsa graduate Abdul's knowledge.😁😁😁
Good video, I would like to add that 32 HQ 16 are too much air defence considering PN doctrine as new Babur class carries 12 and Jinnah class will carry 16 anti air CAMM ER missiles, and I have read somewhere that 32 vlcs also includes anti submarine rockets, for anti ship missiles it can carry 4 or 8 just like old Perry in PN fleet sometimes she carries 4 harpoons and other times 8 harpoons depending on mission.
Very informative
So much Informative that it can mislead anyone 🤣
Mislead in what way?
@@EurasiaNavalin many ways.
Information were wrong
@@EurasiaNaval because of this vidio is not in favour of indians
@@tahiriqbal9195 lol
He is just lying
Indian talwar class frigate is
Equipped With barakh 8 missile.
Which range is around 100km
@@adityasingh1839 chal hat talwar class
We know how to burn Pak warships since 1971 😂😂
We all know how to burn Indian jets since the 1960’s
Pakistan Navy has force projection of decades to come. Therefore Pakistan Navy's procurements are High end keeping the future challenges & requirements. 1: The Radar is Longer Range, 2: YJ-12 is Supersonic Missile. And 3: is HQ-16 is newer version having range of 70 km. Much improved in all aspects.
first pay back your loans then talk about development in navy. jai hind from BHARAT
㊗️🀄️🈶🈵🀄️🧧🌹🌹🌹
Bharmputra class can easily deafeat tugril beause firing radar range of chinse frigate is just 45km so there is not advance super sonic missle yj use its range second klub missle can be fired in salvo klub missle are famous sea skiming and best radar can detect sea skiming missle just below 25km klub missil have higher speed at last stage it will penetrate the ship and blast it you also not mention about electronic counter meausure system of barhmputra class Which will try to jam incoming missle chinse air defense installed on
Tugril is copy ofold buk missle india have better shtil missle advance version from original maker chinse material will chinse lastly I think you are Pakistani
Chinse frigate ciws is just cheap copy of goalkeeper ciws
Type 730 is an improved version of Goalkeeper CIWS
Also, they've mostly switched over to indigenous Type 1130 CIWS
Firing radar for Tugril class is enough as he said in his video that radar horizon matters, moreover it has a medium-range search radar so it can detect Brahmos missiles approaching it. The Brahmaputra class doesn't use Klub missiles, it uses older Kalibr class cruise missiles. As the Brahmaputra class is older, it has less sophisticated ECM equipment, not enough for a missile that is slightly inferior to Brahmos.
This video is actually genuinely underated and damm and this is actually the actual real Pakistan that the actual Indian popganda actually don't show you is actually really like and actually capable of actually doing and damm and 🇨🇳🇨🇳🇨🇳🤝🇵🇰🇵🇰🇵🇰.
Tughril can easily distroy any Indian ship no matter even distroyer and aircraft carrier
Lol 😂😂 remeber Karachi?? Was on fire for days
@@Garuddd yeh but that was with collaboration with the airforce
Operation "python"
You dumb ass don't even know this
U guys currently possess 2 old destroyer 4 old frigates 1 new frigate u got from China lol . India has 10 destroyer 13 frigates 22 corvettes and 2 aircraft carrier in its active deterrence keep dreaming
@@Garuddd 10 distroyers , ,,
2 are second hand Soviet vessel
3 are of the time you haven't even born
3 are under armed with old instrument
1 is so new not even fully operational just weapons firing trials going on
13 frigates,,,
Seems like the budget got stolen whill building project 17
6 super old Soviet Design
4 super old barely armed
4 under-construction engine factory got blown up today
2 aircraft carrier ,, without aircraft 🤣🤣
Joke of the year lol... brainless
I stand to Indian frigate greetings from 🇵🇭
If you stand with India you will soon find yourself standing at the bottom of the ocean with their frigate.
Tughril is better able to intercept brahmos 🤣
Tugril air defence is very weak against talwar bromhos class missile. Where Russian original missile reliable khil defence advance than Chinese copycat khil hq16. Bromhos accident fire proof Chinese hq 16 andhq 9b not work against bromhos
Midlife upgrade bromha pitta now carried 300 km caliber anteship misile barak1 Israeli missile. So no chance of Chinese defence wiopon against India attack. Blunder mistake Pakistan done not used Italy's active seaker irst 40km air defence missile. Yj12 have lacking lowaltitude sea screaming capability. Barak 1 khil 1 easily shoot Chinese misile but bromhos not stoppable by any Chinese airdefence system
Since u have no😢knowledge so your comparative lack of defence knowledge
U should midlife upgrade and bromhos😢action against Chinese airdefence in Pakistan. Request carefully 9th March 2022 bromhos action over Pakistan sky hq9b hw16
And Chinese pl28 ante stealth rader 500 km range also failed too detect bromhos. We always ahead ship defence compare to chines ship defense s300 system bsrak8 india😢.now from 2025 barak8 replace by either Barak 8er. Midlife upgrade we hints u rajput class destroyer 1980 ship now upgraded bromhos 450 km and barak1+pechora 9b 35 km upgraded by Bel +igla 8km version. Total airdefence missile igla 8no barak1 16 no Pechora 32 no total 56 no. air defence bromhos 4 no+80d stitches 80 km 600 kg warhead missile
Now my challenge save burkee agisdestroyer from salvo 4 bromhos fire from Indian ranovijoy ranjoy and rana
Rana further upgraded by vlsrsam and test successfully. Ranajay ranvijay though barak1
Ins Delhi midlife upgrade have you any knowledge? request u for study midlife upgrade then compare.
Bro you angry?
PNS is literally the definition of Quality Over Quantity
no lol, its the definition for failed navy with 1-2 somewhat advanced assets
The Indian side is at no disadvantage. There are already 3 Kolkata class destroyers in service, with 4 more Vishakapatnam coming. Pakistan has nothing to match these. Secondly India has networked sensing and Air cover, along with far more ports spread out over a larger area. Pakistani ships can only operate out of Karachi port which is extremely vulnerable to Indian air and missile forces.
Your comparison is not 100% accurate.Lets take talwar class having 8 klub missile, you mentioned it is a subsonic missile but that is incorrect, klub missile uses active radar guidance with a range of 220 kilometres (140 mi). It is a three-stage missile in which the terminal stage reaches supersonic velocity (Mach 2.9) when it is approximately 20 km (12 mi) from its target.
My friend, I said the Talwar Batch 1 is armed with the Kalibr supersonic missile - watch it again. My point is that the exported version of the Kalibr does not have the range to match the YJ-12.
You seem to have attributed me with a claim I did not make.
Range is similar 220 vs 250. You are overstating the capability of yj-12, ability of the radar and the air defense offered by HQ-16. Let alone the ability of Brahmos missile and deep electronic defense onboard the Indian ships. Make no mistake HQ-16 is derived from Buk system which is soviet based design and not something developed by China.
"Tughril is expected to win against the indian frigates...." Thats all we need to know, thanks 👍
No Chinese no Pakistan never win against India. Both air defence of Navy have lack below 15 meter interception. China also in danger when harpoons and Exocet attacked Chinese navy through Taiwan f16 and mirragge 2000.tawian have 200 no f16 and 80 mirrage 2000.war start on 2028.
@@ashisbose6181Paksitan won 1965 and China won 1963.. I see a pattern here
@@netsimam Pakistani won 1965. We conquered 1965 even Lahore. Rest assure
Are you madrasa educated. Lahore in Pakistan. 1962 we lost duet not use Air Force. Rest assure. Pakistan even lost Taliban in Afghanistan and khibar paktunala tehrika Taliban. Rest assure
Imf loan will buy petrol
@@netsimamusa is allah?
Ninja technique for views
You are forgetting one thing pak warships will be sunked before they even scan indian ships becuz brahmos range is 800+km
The Indian side is at no disadvantage. There are already 3 Kolkata class destroyers in service, with 4 more Vishakapatnam coming. Pakistan has nothing to match these. Secondly India has networked sensing and Air cover, along with far more ports spread out over a larger area. Pakistani ships can only operate out of Karachi port which is extremely vulnerable to Indian air and missile forces.
Thats why Pakistan is considering the Type-055A.
@@netsimam And what are you gonna pay for those with - your women??
@@netsimamtype 054A is a frigate , Vishakhapstnam is a destroyer
@@anirecapped. by exporting beef
@@Ncs-Charlie Nah, that won't suffice. You will have to sell your women in order to pay them off.
Talwar is a good frigate if it gets vlsrsam
They will get it during their upcoming mid life refits.
2 major biases in this comparison.
BrahMos's range is round bout 400 kms-500 kms soon after India became a member of the MTCR in 2016. If this video was made about 6-8 years ago, the range would make sense. 2017-18 onwards, all BrahMos ranges were unlocked to its maximum of upto 500 kms. Modern Destroyers like the Kolkata and Vishakapatnam Class are being quipped with the 700 kms+ BrahMos-ER , but thats another story.
Second, Tugril holds 4 YJ12, not 8. Talwar and Shivalik both hold 8, twice the number.
So, there's a good chance that Talwar/Shivalik will launch and attack first, while it stays out of the range of YJ12.
Apart from that in other overall comparision, Shivalik has better Anti-ship capabilities, better anti sub capabilities, better aviation capabilities, better range and endurance, better speed.
Tugril has a better AESA radar.
Airdefence? Well, Tugril has better quality with 32 HQ16 which is better than Barak 1 or Shilt. But Shivalik has more SAMs. 54 , 32 Barak 1 and 24 Shilt. So i assume both are comparable.
I admit Tughril is better than Talwar Class though, but not as good as Shivalik.
Why I don’t understand that you are miss informed and you are miss informing others shivalik class has vls for brack 1 or 8 depending on requirements
Very bad comparison.. specially Brahmos capability against ships air defences..made it look so easy to intercept
Brahmaputra are really outdated.
However, Vlsrsam may atleast help it survive. If it ever goes in war before getting decommissioned
This video is hilarious in its assumptions. It calls the Ak630 ciws obsolete, don't know why but the ciws in the Chinese ship can intercept a mach 2.8 missile which is complete bullshit. The shtil as inferior to Chinese sam, dunno on what basis. At least the world has seen the shtil in action. The bullshit about the Chinese surface search radar being better than the Russian radar is hilarious to say the least. This is Pakistani fanboy video which ignores the biggest defence against incoming supersonic missiles which are ecm and ew based countermeasures and a good battle management system. Basically a waste video.
🤣😂indians !!
GOOGLE , MICROSOFT, YOU TUBE , TWITTER WORLD BANK , Finally Pakistan s nemesis IMF . indians !! 😄😄😄
@@567ghj_X ask all of them indians in these firms are they Indians?😂🤣they will say they are Americans, Europeans etc. Non of them will say we are Indians. Grow up son read there bios before posting random memes of internet!!
@@567ghj_X seriously ?
After seeing your this video i really think u need to understand the technology specifically in SAM and capability of supersonic missiles!
Are u mad ?
Who is thinking that brahmos can be shoot down by Tughril's SAM ?
Bro no existing SAM can shoot down brahmos!
Even SM2 /6 can't do this 🔥
After getting s400 India developed more powerful seekers + its last stage S maneuver + its guidence can't be jammed by existing EW systems!
How could u say that ?
Worlds best radars can't see stealth brahmos before 25km !
From here it gives just 30 to 40 sec to repond the any SAM system in world !
Because at last stage brahmos travels at 4 mach !
And from 25km you will get just 30sec to respond!
Where u need to serach and track the missile + find the interception point + fire the multiple rounds of SAM to shoot !
And for doing these things u will atleast take 15 to 20 sec !
Wheater after 20 sec missile will come close to 5 to 10km of ship !
At this stage seeker of brahmos will start and evasive maneuvers will start to evade AD systems by missile!
At this point missile will start its famous S maneuvers or it will do steap dive from height!
Generally for antishiping brahmos performs S manuvers at 5 to 4 meter height !
And at this stage maximum defence system can't shoot down missiles because the missiles of SAM can't achieve its maximum speed to engage!
So last hope is CIWS and point defence systems like (AK630 , BARAK8 etc )
And todays system is inefficient against Brahmos 😎
So downing brahmos is delusion!
While our talwar class with brahmos can destroy tughril!
If our ships will see tughril first !
For your info non of the Pakistani airdefence sys can counter the brahmos..better do some research on the capabilities instead taking ACC of the speed only.
Your analysis is both biased and flawed. The scenario is this:
1. The Pakistani Navy will remain bottled up in Karachi port in an event of hostility with the Indian Navy. Your scenario is that the Tughril class will face either one Brahmaputra class, 1 Talwar class or 1 Shivalik class. But the Indian Fleet will always consist of multiple warships and submarines not to mention Aircraft Carriers and shore based aircrafts.
2. You have mentioned that the Brahmos will be launched from a single cell wheras there are 8 vls cells for Brahmos in frigates and 16 Vls cells in destroyers.
3. Point defence on these ships will be augmented by VLSRSAM being developed of which the final test was conducted yesterday. These frigates will either be equipped with 16 or 32 VLS cells.
3. You have not compared them to Nilgiri class with MFSTAR Radar, Brahmos, Barak 8 ER and VLSSAM .
4. India being a signatory to MTCR is increasing the range of Brahmos to 450 kms not to mention its hypersonic version as well.
5. Now imagine what will happen to Tughril class when faced with 10 Talwar class, 3 Shivalik Class, 7 Nilgiri class and 7 Kolkata/Visakhapatnam class Destroyers + Carrier borne fighter + Shore based SU 30 MKI with Brahmos ALCM + 16 P8I MR Aircraft.
1. I never claimed that the Pakistan fleet can sally out or defeat the Indian fleet in an open naval conflict. The comparison is between two warships that are of a similar displacement, and are intended to serve a similar role. Many observers, including Indian ones, like to compare on the same basis, so I think this is a fairly innocent practice.
2. The Brahmos may be based in a 8-cell VLS on the Talwar and Shivalik classes, but VLS cells come in blocks (typically of 8 cells each, but sometimes 12), each of which share a single exhuast vent. This is very important. You cannot fire all the Brahmos in the same VLS block at once, because you need to wait for the vent to clear after firing each missile, otherwise the heat and gas in the VLS will build up to a dangerous level. Ideally, you should also wait for the missile to pick a course, so they won't collide. Each 8-cell VLS block on a US Arleigh Burke (there are about 10-12 blocks on each Burke) can fire one missile every 12-15 seconds if they are doing everything safely. In an emergency, you can imagine Indian frigates firing one Brahmos every 8 seconds. BUT, it is ridiculous to claim all the missiles in an 8-cell VLS can fire at the same time.
3. India may be developing these SAMs, but they have not operationalised these on their existing frigates yet. I am comparing what Pakistan currently has to what India has, not what it claims it will have in the future.
4. Nilgiri class is not in service with the Indian Navy yet - they are being built or fitted out.
5. Long-range and hypersonic Brahmos is still in development - again, Indian frigates in their navy does not have the capability yet. It's easy to claim a specific weapon to be in development, but in practice projects get delayed or chopped.
@@EurasiaNaval But Tugril can fire 2 HQ 16 for every Brahmos launched? Nilgiri Class will be commissioned sooner than Advanced Talwar Class, which you have compared.
@@aroopgohainbaruah5216 SAM could be launched from different VLS blocks, so if one block need 10-16 seconds to fire next one, 4 blocks need 2.5-4 seconds to fire next one. Or 2-4 as a group in rapid succession, and wait 10 seconds for next group.
Indian poor garbage country as well there’s navy Indian are showing up jealousy India is most weaker country
@@nongnainon3395 Beggar Pakistanis are here.
yuck! kindergarten LEVEL ANALYSIS
😂great chinese appraisal
You lack more information about bramos with Indian navy … is 3.5 Mach not 2.8 … Also range 😂 we miss fired one few years back they couldn’t stop with best of Chinese air defense … you really over estimating china missile capabilities with out proper information in public domain … you informed by propaganda that is not fare assessment … you missed tons of information about naval operations regarding information sharing and actual fight conditions … otherwise I liked way you said about weaker long range interception and rapid deployment of weapons for defense …
Bro you got to stop with miss information you didn’t mention Elta elm 😂😂😂 probably your founds coming from China and Pakistan
Lol Chinese propaganda.
He is from Taiwan, not China. The truth is that the western media very often underestimates everything from China, and from what I've seen of many Indian sources, much of the information vastly exaggerates and overstates India and anything from India, whilst also denigrating and dismissing China.
Many Indians have a very inaccurate opinion of their own country and their own capabilities, and also a very inaccurate and underestimated opinion of China.
If you actually compare the statistics between India and China, China is massively in front and much more powerful and wealthy than India is.
@@simonyip5978 ur army run from tawang india is ur daddy
Video is joke. Don’t watch it … also he needs proper missile information … also radar .. Chafs … dicoy .., jamming platforms of ship in action … miss out tons of fact and comparison is 1 diamational
Pakistan Air defense recently not able to engage or intercept brahmos fired inside pakistani territory they waited and watched helplessly further the type 382 radar used on turghil has range of 250 km where as that of mf star radar is 300 to 400 km further Indian ships are being equipped with smart torpedo as well as Barak 8 i may agree with you in some points and not all comparing the capability Indian Navy is acquired recently from p8 posidon to mh 60 romeo which surpass all capability what Pakistan have. Brahmos is a weapon that can't be intercepted whatever pakis have in their arsenal.
Hamara Bharath mahan