Things to look out for before buying Mercedes Benz with m278 engine Turbo coolant lines leak every 60k miles Driver side engine mount if car was driven hard mountbmust be replaced ever 30-40k miles Front cover valve covers bank one and bank two most be resealed every 60k miles At same time check your cam shaft sensors make sure there not leaking oil into your wiring harness. Trans mission fluid flush and filter every 60k miles If you do not know how to do most of your own repairs do not buy this car Start looking into Toyota Highlander I do have to say it’s amazing car when everything is running good Best of luck 👍🏻
is there any way to tell the engine (M278) has bore scoring, before buying? Nobody's gonna let me drive it for like a month to check does it burn any oil, or let me stick a borescope tube down the engine... Is there any other indicator for me as a buyer to pay attention to?
@@tariktokalija452 take it from me Do not buy Mercedes with m278 engine if you do not know how to diagnose and fix your own car. It will bankrupt you. To answer your original question Only way to know if cylinder head is scored take spark plugs out and use borescope. I would also check camshaft sensor harnesses and cam shaft magnets on front of the engine for leaks They leak and if left untreated your whole engine harness and ecu will have to be replaced. To do that you have to drop engine Best of luck 👍🏻
when you think about it, alone scored cylinders and cam adjusters problem could cost me a fortune, not to mention other "normal" problems that might occur like in any 10+ year old car... the thing is, I like W221 so much and it's probably gonna be my next car, but I'm drawn away from 350d because of piston rings problem and oil consumption that is almost guaranteed on every model, while 350 petrol N/A is shite. So which engine is the smartest option in this car? Should I take my chances with M278 and hope it's in good condition, or do the same with 350d since the repair is way cheaper. Thanks for respond btw.@@mikimiki195
@@mizterblicky5569 yeah I know is Don’t get me wrong If you know how to wrench 🔧 you should be good to go. It’s great’s SUV It’s our family hauler we took it to 3000 mile road trip it’s was great.
2013 E550 coupe w m278 at 44k. Had smoke out of pass. side bank on takeoff. Was told injector stuck open and washed cylinder #5 I believe. MBUSA and dealership replaced block and right bank head w 3yr/36k warranty. Charged me $4500 under “Good Will Assistance”. Figured it was a good deal. At 82k now and going strong.
Poor lubrication yes.. WHY? Check out the oil pressure solenoid. It restricts oil pressure in exchange for better mpg. Unplugging this sensor give you full pressure at all times and fox's the poor lubrication issues!
It is unusual that it would be the front cylinders, usually the rear cylinders run hotter. I wonder if the front cylinders piston squirter jets are the last in line. As some have said, I think it has a electronically adjusted oil pump flow. But if that system is working properly, giving lower flow under lower loads, you wouldn't think that would be an issue at low loads. The piston cooling at low loads from reduced oil flow shouldn't be causing an issue in theory, disabling the reduced flow mode MAY or MAY NOT help though.
I think it would mostly be due to extended oil change intervals. 10K is way too long. The cylinder walls are only lubricated by oil sloshing around in the crankcase; there's no direct oil distribution to my knowledge. Rich fuel mixture should not affect it IMHO because the oil scraper ring's job is to ensure there's zero oil on top of the piston. It's only lubricated from the bottom. Feel free to correct me. I bought a W166 with only 31K miles that has never gone over 4300 miles between oil changes so hopefully ok.
Cam sensors can leak oil into harness yep for sure - also the cam magnetic solenoids - FCP do a ‘sacrificial oil harness for $9 each that go between the solenoids and the engine harness if they are not leaking (yet) good video
Make sure radiator hoses, both upper and lower are checked ASAP if your engine developed a small drip-leak. Corrosion does form on the hose metal ends. My ml63 has 83k on it, hoses were bad. Upper failed, lower ready to fail . Don’t burn up that nice motor ! Change the hoses, upper and lower.
Based on the performance increase I've noticed after replacing these sensors and magnets, are you aware of any other parts that I can replace which may affect performance? Also, what do you know about the oil cooler? I've noticed a slight burned oil smell after driving the car lately but don't see any leakage anywhere. 2013 S550 with 80,000 miles on it and dealer maintained for past 8 years.
It might just be burning a little oil which could be fine. But I've also dropped a bit of oil when evacuating it from the dipstick and it will hit the H-pipe on the exhaust and burns off which creates a very similar smell.
Hi I have a 2014 CLS550 how in the world do you replace the check valves how do you remove the old ones I pulled the threaded piece out it seems like there's a race that holds it in but how would you remove the check valve that's behind it thanks
@@pgill2682 I just looked at 2 off my sensors pull them and just like you oil was in the contact connector I don't have any misfires mu heart is beating hopefully no damage is done
@@Mr.duke10783 it's hard to say. But you definitely do not want to wait much longer. It's easy to replace these sensors and clean the connectors out vs replacing the engine harness!
hello, I am about to buy an s63 coupe from February 2016 French version, have the problems been resolved? The car has 124,000 km, there have only been 4 services in total at Mercedes, every 25,000 km, I think it's not much, but apparently the previous owners followed the manufacturers' recommendations. Is it serious to have only done oil changes every 25,000 km? I am not a mechanical expert, how would I know if the vehicle has problems? THANKS
I just started to notice a ticking noise on my 12 ml63 the 518hp . This is after replacing the motor mounts. Replacing the starter. Having to replace the water pump due to a thermostat failure , and also the inner of part of the water pump is made of a polymer composite, I’m not too sure on that but the rod is steel which will fail with over temp. But that ticking noise just started and it doesn’t sound when cold. I also don’t run that 0w40 oil.
Sounds like the tensioners, there is a tsb on updating the check valves. It sounds like the m157 may have a bit tougher times in heavier cars with cylinder scoring.
You ever fix? If noise on startup after sitting, your cam adjusters are probably worn, there are aftermarket ones that supposedly won't wear out like oem ones. And pull valvecovers, inspect cams and valve buckets for abnormal wear.
The timing chain was updated I believe in 2014 for USA. I've heard Taco mention 2015 for other places. They updated some tensioners and check valves later as well, not too big of an issue though, maybe 1700 and tbh many chain drive cars will need tensioners at some point.
My M278 oil level reads very low when cold, but only when I first pull the dipstick. I then reinsert/pull the dipstick and oil level is normal. This is my second Benz to do this, the other was an M276, and another guy on a forum said his 276 did the same thing. Completely baffling.... No the dipstick has not worked its way out, so when I pull it the first time it is in fact all the way down. My theory is Gremlins, because I do not have a better one. Curious if any others experience this, more curious if anyone knows why.
I think it has to do with the timing and how the oil is used to tension the chain. It is very difficult to get an accurate reading on the oil. I made a video just about when to check it.
Mercedes Benz of Germany is asking me for evidence of oil getting into the wiring harness via the magnets and sensors on the M278. If you have anything to do with the forums and can produce any evidence of this happening on the M278, please get in touch with me so I we can present it to them. They want to know if this has been happening enough to trigger a recall. It did happen to my 2013 M278 at around 65,000 miles just before I bought it according to the dealership who did the work and sold the car to me.
I could ask a few indy mechanics for some. Almost every time I'm in a shop I hear them talking about just completing one of them or currently working on them.
@@TunedMercedes I pointed them to a busy page on the forum as well as it happening to my 2013 but they are now staying quiet. Two weeks ago I spoke to Mercedes USA and the woman I spoke to said they will not address this regarding the M278. So it looks like I'll have to get them in court so I'm filing suit against Mercedes Benz USA, we're still gathering evidence so anything you have would be great.
@@TunedMercedes I told Mercedes Germany that I want them to make pigtails for the magnets and sensors for the M278 out of anti-capillary action wiring so we can just put them on and forget it ever was a problem. I think a judge would agree that would be a solution worth them doing at the very least.
@@MercedesMechanic They did it for other cars. Let me do a more intensive polls. I just been working really hard getting the tuning store up (can now buy tunes on tunedmercedes.com )
Good information! About the oil level, the manual just says the normal practice as usual: check oil level when cold. Why do you think we need to add more oil please? Thanks!
M156 has the headbolt issue which is probably the most expensive common problem. What would you say is the most expensive common problem for the m157, the front cylinders ??
cylinder scoring is likely the most expensive issue. Valves was expensive but someone on mbworld realized that you could use Nissan parts for the valve seals and similar.
Man.. this is such a mindfck. I've been looking at XFR's and E63's ('13/'14). I always thought the 2013 onwards 5.0 Jag was a more simple fault-free engine, but now I'm scared to pick either of em. I'm planning on running a low milage stock and keep it like that but I can't deal with catastrophic engine issues (again).
The M157 and M278 are much better runners than the Jaguar 5.0 SC, but the Jags do put down power well. If you do go that route with the AJV8 I'd make sure it had the timing chain tensioners done (and done right). I have a lot of info on this on offroadrover.com
The 5.0 SC jag engine is way more reliable than m157/m278. I own all these motors I speak from good experience. The worse thing on the 5.0 jag engine is timing chain and a few coolant lines. Do frequent oil changes (5-7k) with quality oil and replace those coolant pipes you’ll be good. It’s also incredibly easier to work on than the m157/m278.
@@bimmere60ify agree to disagree. that jag engine makes m278 look like a Toyota. I do like the 4.2 SC but the 5.0 is timing, cam sprokets/adjusters, water pump, oil starvation. reading the jag and Range Rover forums would keep me up at night and it came to pass. I changed my oil often. the timing chain is really hard to change imho, had to redo it like three times because cam sprocket torque is listed too low in topix (maybe they changed it). Then some of the tensioners don't even deploy. Also disagree on it being easier to work on, except maybe you have more room in like a Range Rover compared to an SL.
Thanks for the info! I just purchased a 2016 GLE 63 (with the M157), do you think that some of those issues might have got fixed by 2016? Or is it pretty much the same engine along the years?
The timing is definitely improved. I am unsure they were ever able to address the issues with cylinder scoring and the valves. Not every car will suffer from it. There will be some warning in terms of very slight misfiring.
So I've recently noticed a knocking/tapping coming from the right hand lower side of my engine in line with throttle changes. My 2012 CLS550 (M278) has 47k miles. I've done my own last 2 oil changes, I use Mobil 1 0w40 Synthetic with mb229.5 spec and I recently, with the help of your guides, did my own spark plugs which cleared my check engine light I used to get. It's very hard to say but I have only noticed the knocking recently, perhaps since I did the plugs. Any chance this could be related? My oil level seems fine, I check it after running for a couple minutes. I'm considering perhaps doing another change, running Liqui Moly engine flush first for a day or two, then doing the change and switching to Liqui Moly oil instead. Would you attempt this in trying to remedy the knocking or would you consider the spark plug change the culprit? Next would be a boroscope to check the cylinder walls I'm thinking but where I live, we have one dealership only, and man they are not trustworthy at all and incompetent so I'm cringing to take them something like this to diagnose. Any guidance would be appreciated, thanks.
I would run down oil level first/again. It is a PITA to set it right because so much gets stuck in the timing gear. It really needs to be at 80-90C then to wait about 30 minutes. Lifters make sounds like that when the oil level is off either high or low. I do think liquid moly or 5w-40 is likely slightly better than 0w-40 in warmer weather. the timing chain tensioners (actually all of it) was updated like 2014/2015-ish. Last thought is my car was really loud, and it turned out to be a loose O2 sensor -- you can tap the exhausts a bit and see if they rattle. Feel free to message me for more help.
@@c.a.n.4202 Temp would be like 80-90 C. About 10 minutes I guess running, then it is about 20-30 minutes to wait. At that point oil should be in the middle.
@@TunedMercedes I literally just cleaned up from trying the oil again. Flushed with Liqui Moly Engine Flush on a 15min drive. Extracted the oil. Switched to Liqui Mily 5w40. Added Liqui Moly 'Viscoplus'. After start up I could audibly tell the engine sounded quieter after doing all this but unfortunately, a few minutes later once warmed up, the ticking returned. It appears to be near cylinders 5 & 6 (drivers side towards the front of the car, lower part). I went to Mercedes today to pick up an OEM oil filter and while there begrudgingly made an inquiry about potentially needing a diagnostic for this ticking.........they told me first available apt. was in 3 god damn weeks!!! They are seriously the worst.
all years are pretty good but they did upgrade the timing gear (Tasos has a great video on it) and they updated the spark plugs a bit later. Later M157s get more powerful. MB also split the cooling at some point. I am unsure of the exact years for this as it varies by market and perhaps model of car. In the USA they split cooling and updated the timing chain in 2014 for the CLS, I don't think they updated the tensioners later though. I would guess around 2014-2016 they were updated world wide.
a knocking issue last night just out of nowhere, and my AFR gauge on my 2013 ML550 went super lean(17:1-20:1). I babied it hardcore home. Shut the car off, started it back up and it's like it never even happened. I hadn't started it back up yet though today yet, I'm kind of paranoid now about it.
So are these issues more or less common on the 2015 and up s550 coupe? Also I heard that you shouldn’t park the car in the rain too much is because it can get into the engine? I don’t know if that’s true can you educate me on that? Also is there an ideal mileage to get these cars at?
I think 2015 will likely have updated timing gear, guides, and check valves. I have not heard that about the rain. I've driven in very hard rain and there were no issues aside from the computers slowing the car down for traction. It is likely a good idea to keep the car garaged though for looks etc, but not a requirement. I bought mine at a bit less than 5k miles and am at 40k now. I think they will run for 200k or so but they will require more work keeping them going at 80-120+. Things like hoses are often reported as breaking on mbworld.
How long should I wait to check the oil after running it when its -10F? Also I love this engine so much, despite being bigger I still get better gas mileage than my n54 did even in a 200lbs heavier car. , and stock for stock, a lot more power, and my car, was on it's 6th n54, thankfully the motor I had a discounted price to put in was warrantied.
6 n54s? that is crazy. I am unsure about at -10f. If at all possible it is like 20 minutes after hitting 90C operating temperature at 45-80. Is it possible to check in a garage? I'd guess maybe 10-15 minutes at -10F. How does M278 handle that type of cold weather?
tbh I am not sure. I think some of the tensioners prob should be changed at some point as needed, the check valves, im not 100% on. I would guess the oil level would be easier to read with less fluctuation and there would be less startup noise. but I have heard from one mechanic they thought the old system was like that for a reason. I should ask him more about it.
@@TunedMercedeshi! Wanting to purchase a 2016 S550 which has the M278. Any updates on the timing chain tensioner replacement being required? I went to a dealer and started two different S550s, a 2015 S550 (80k miles) and a 2016 S550 (107k miles) and both of them had the same cold start engine rattle. But both of them also stopped rattling about 45sec after start up and they didn't have drivability issues. No hesitation, power issues, rough idle etc. Thanks!
@@russelalmanzor4056 2016 should have updated timing gear. no need to worry. If you'd like to check everything pre purchase you could ask for a compression test.
@@TunedMercedes sorry one more question. If the 2016 S550 I checked out supposedly has the updated timing system but it still rattles at cold start for 45sec, is it still ok?
What's your opinion on a 2014 gl63 amd? I'm looking of buying it, it's done 75ks radiator, coolant hoses have been replaced. Would a normal mechanic be able to tell if something is wrong by looking at it? Or I need to take it somewhere to get it diagnosed?
I would do a pressure test or borescope on that. I think you can use xentry to do a pressure test via software. They are solid if everything is good. Be prepared to go to coil springs if you don't want to learn and deal with air suspension. I will say once u know air suspension it is not much more than springs, but it can be a failure point.
I have the exact same problem in my engine... Front left cylinder wall is scored.. Has miss fire code pop up when hit the pedal to the metal.. And I have determined the cylinder wall is scored by checking it with a Bore Scope... Don't know what options I have.. Is there any recall on this issue... Car only has 122,000km... Car is in 8/10 condition and engine is the only issue
It is an awesome car. I think it is CLS 63 is one of the best values out there for the performance and luxury. I'd just try to borescope front to cylinders and run it hard to see if there are any small miss fires (will feel like pulling power momentarily).
is it mostly the earlier years of the m278 with the linear issues? is there a production range where this is most common? doesn't sound like a huge issue though. great info, thanks.
AFAIK there isn't wasn't a cut off point for the engine issue, or fix for it later (no different part #s). Which leads some people to believe it's not actually a problem. I've heard some people say that it was an issue with just one of the machines and so some engines have it some don't. It often shows up before 100k miles. There is some thought the MB oem tune may be a little lean, and that makes sense given the emissions and efficiency push. I'm thinking 5k mile OCI (personally I use a can of BG MOA), BOV, highest octane gas, not pushing it until it is warm may help. Demetre of DTKM, others mention methanol may be helpful. I think I'm going to go with an Aquamist setup as my next power adding mod.
Hey Matt, I researched it a bit more, there are some people and notation of cylinder scoring on the front cylinders. I haven't been able to find much about the valve issue. Most common seems to be timing gear. So I would just keep the timing gear up to date with changes in the tensioners and check-valves and change the oil maybe a bit more often than the 10k OCI. I know this is sort of a touchy issue but with Direct Injection engines I think it might be prudent to consider 5000-7500 mile oil change intervals.
@@TunedMercedes thanks for follow up. Just starting with MB actually. Last year picked up 2016 cls 400 from copart canada with 9100 original miles. Was bit scared initially because after delivery it turned out that car was never serviced in past 4 years! Air filters still oem from 2015, no oil change either. Car was just sitting for probably 2 years or more due to legal dispute. Got mini heart attack after seeing some random misfires on ciliders but after sorting car out and doing few 125mph motorway runs misfires are gone - at least for now!
@@mattkochanowski6196 You may want to consider sparks and coils if there are more misfires. according to OEtuning older spark plug part numbers were hot and can cause misfires when pushing it. LMK if you have any codes.
I just found out why you should keep these parts replaced, my car has been transformed by replacing them, its got way more torque and speed and drives like its brand new. Amazing difference these sensors and magnets make. I'll replace again in 30,000 miles just to be sure they are in top condition.
I ran into the cylinder 5 misfire from the valves at 48k miles. Do you recommend proactively fixing cylinder 1 even though no code from that one while the engine is out?
Just bought a 2014 CLS 63 AMG with 85k and 2 days into ownership I just had to take it into the dealership with a misfire in cylinder 5 and had to replace the fuel injector. $1800 to fix it🤦♂️.
Sorry to hear that but thx for sharing for others. Fuel injectors can be diy the seals etc add up.I’ve heard they have updated the injectors to better parts
Solid nice car. Some complaints are tensioners, and some maybe some valve issues. Although it is coming clear you can use Nissan valves and seals to fix for quite a bit less. Overall solid engine and car imho.
I would likely do something on a dyno and log it on the street to make sure everything is good. But I'd imagine it'd be fine if all the fluids are new and you have sparks and as needed coils
the newer 4.0 turbos are on top but these are down low I believe on RWD you don't need to drop engine but on AWD you at least have to move the engine a bit or drop subframe a bit. technically it is engine out but not everything is always done by the book
@@TunedMercedes ok what I’m buying is a rwd but do think can be done from top. Cause I know from bottom . But if you the coolant tank from top and some other hoses do you think can be done?
I have a 2014 E550 4matic, how would I know if my engine is old, also sometimes when I turn it on in the morning there is a kinda like rattle noise that goes away in 1 or 2 seconds, and later in the day I don't hear the sound until the car sit till next day
yeah, that is the tensioners needing a bit of oil. The official fix is to install check valves. I don't believe it is super necessary except to fix sound.
@@TunedMercedes same got the e550 2014 does the rattle as well but water pump i think is leaking is that super bad? How much is it to replace and what else should be done?
in one way i know what u mean but in another way your prob at 145k miles plus when u get those issues. and some ppl say the face lift is updated add in the oil solenoid mod and u can really only talk about a handful of modern engines that will go as long as it can before it dies
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Things to look out for before buying Mercedes Benz with m278 engine
Turbo coolant lines leak every 60k miles
Driver side engine mount if car was driven hard mountbmust be replaced ever 30-40k miles
Front cover valve covers bank one and bank two most be resealed every 60k miles
At same time check your cam shaft sensors make sure there not leaking oil into your wiring harness.
Trans mission fluid flush and filter every 60k miles
If you do not know how to do most of your own repairs do not buy this car
Start looking into Toyota Highlander
I do have to say it’s amazing car when everything is running good
Best of luck 👍🏻
is there any way to tell the engine (M278) has bore scoring, before buying? Nobody's gonna let me drive it for like a month to check does it burn any oil, or let me stick a borescope tube down the engine... Is there any other indicator for me as a buyer to pay attention to?
@@tariktokalija452 take it from me Do not buy Mercedes with m278 engine if you do not know how to diagnose and fix your own car.
It will bankrupt you.
To answer your original question
Only way to know if cylinder head is scored take spark plugs out and use borescope.
I would also check camshaft sensor harnesses and cam shaft magnets on front of the engine for leaks
They leak and if left untreated your whole engine harness and ecu will have to be replaced. To do that you have to drop engine
Best of luck 👍🏻
when you think about it, alone scored cylinders and cam adjusters problem could cost me a fortune, not to mention other "normal" problems that might occur like in any 10+ year old car... the thing is, I like W221 so much and it's probably gonna be my next car, but I'm drawn away from 350d because of piston rings problem and oil consumption that is almost guaranteed on every model, while 350 petrol N/A is shite. So which engine is the smartest option in this car? Should I take my chances with M278 and hope it's in good condition, or do the same with 350d since the repair is way cheaper. Thanks for respond btw.@@mikimiki195
Lmao thanks for the advice bro but no one wants a Toyota Highlander lmao
@@mizterblicky5569 yeah I know is
Don’t get me wrong
If you know how to wrench 🔧 you should be good to go. It’s great’s SUV
It’s our family hauler we took it to 3000 mile road trip it’s was great.
2013 E550 coupe w m278 at 44k. Had smoke out of pass. side bank on takeoff. Was told injector stuck open and washed cylinder #5 I believe. MBUSA and dealership replaced block and right bank head w 3yr/36k warranty. Charged me $4500 under “Good Will Assistance”. Figured it was a good deal. At 82k now and going strong.
Sorry dude but intake restrictions do no cause piston ling scoring. Excessive piston temps, poor lubrication and foreign object damage cause scoring.
Poor lubrication yes.. WHY? Check out the oil pressure solenoid. It restricts oil pressure in exchange for better mpg. Unplugging this sensor give you full pressure at all times and fox's the poor lubrication issues!
It is unusual that it would be the front cylinders, usually the rear cylinders run hotter. I wonder if the front cylinders piston squirter jets are the last in line. As some have said, I think it has a electronically adjusted oil pump flow. But if that system is working properly, giving lower flow under lower loads, you wouldn't think that would be an issue at low loads. The piston cooling at low loads from reduced oil flow shouldn't be causing an issue in theory, disabling the reduced flow mode MAY or MAY NOT help though.
I think this may be a big cause
@@TunedMercedes most important is cold start which leads to over fueling and that cause oil to wash off of the cylinder walls ..
I think it would mostly be due to extended oil change intervals. 10K is way too long. The cylinder walls are only lubricated by oil sloshing around in the crankcase; there's no direct oil distribution to my knowledge. Rich fuel mixture should not affect it IMHO because the oil scraper ring's job is to ensure there's zero oil on top of the piston. It's only lubricated from the bottom. Feel free to correct me. I bought a W166 with only 31K miles that has never gone over 4300 miles between oil changes so hopefully ok.
Cam sensors can leak oil into harness yep for sure - also the cam magnetic solenoids - FCP do a ‘sacrificial oil harness for $9 each that go between the solenoids and the engine harness if they are not leaking (yet) good video
Thank you Sir! for a much in depth informative video analysis. Excellent!
My pleasure!
Make sure radiator hoses, both upper and lower are checked ASAP if your engine developed a small drip-leak. Corrosion does form on the hose metal ends. My ml63 has 83k on it, hoses were bad. Upper failed, lower ready to fail . Don’t burn up that nice motor ! Change the hoses, upper and lower.
In the process of that right now, just changed my belt and noticed blue fuzzy crap at the ends on both hoses while inspecting the belt install.
thanks for sharing this info
Going through this now.
Thanks for info
Based on the performance increase I've noticed after replacing these sensors and magnets, are you aware of any other parts that I can replace which may affect performance? Also, what do you know about the oil cooler? I've noticed a slight burned oil smell after driving the car lately but don't see any leakage anywhere. 2013 S550 with 80,000 miles on it and dealer maintained for past 8 years.
It might just be burning a little oil which could be fine. But I've also dropped a bit of oil when evacuating it from the dipstick and it will hit the H-pipe on the exhaust and burns off which creates a very similar smell.
@@TunedMercedes Its leaking from the cam covers that the magnets are attached to according to the dealership.
Hi I have a 2014 CLS550 how in the world do you replace the check valves how do you remove the old ones I pulled the threaded piece out it seems like there's a race that holds it in but how would you remove the check valve that's behind it thanks
another member of Tuned Mercedes fb group put together a video on replacing the check valves. I'll hunt it down
Just replaced all 4 camshaft sensors on a 13 s550 with 77k, sure enough they were leaking . Great video
Thanks for your support!
How long did it take you ?
@@liammccormack4765 taking my time with compressed air to blow oil out of connectors ... probably like 10-15 minutes
@@pgill2682 I just looked at 2 off my sensors pull them and just like you oil was in the contact connector I don't have any misfires mu heart is beating hopefully no damage is done
@@Mr.duke10783 it's hard to say. But you definitely do not want to wait much longer. It's easy to replace these sensors and clean the connectors out vs replacing the engine harness!
Yup!! Misfire on cylinder 6 for me happend one time, fortunately it was just a coil fix and upgraded my spark plugs.
I also meant to add using cheap gas brand can contribute to a misfires in the long run, so always use a good brand 91 or higher gasoline
I had misfire on 6 as well just order kit with coils and air filters from fcp euro also got cam solenoids and spacer harness 🤞
Great video.!
Thank you so much for your awesome and technical videos.!
Very welcome sir
How frequent are the cylinder scoring issues? What percentage of m157 would you say have that issue develop?
i think it depends on the application. GL and SUV have more I believe.
hello, I am about to buy an s63 coupe from February 2016 French version, have the problems been resolved? The car has 124,000 km, there have only been 4 services in total at Mercedes, every 25,000 km, I think it's not much, but apparently the previous owners followed the manufacturers' recommendations. Is it serious to have only done oil changes every 25,000 km? I am not a mechanical expert, how would I know if the vehicle has problems? THANKS
yes i believe it should. i will make a video
I just started to notice a ticking noise on my 12 ml63 the 518hp . This is after replacing the motor mounts.
Replacing the starter.
Having to replace the water pump due to a thermostat failure , and also the inner of part of the water pump is made of a polymer composite, I’m not too sure on that but the rod is steel which will fail with over temp. But that ticking noise just started and it doesn’t sound when cold. I also don’t run that 0w40 oil.
Sounds like the tensioners, there is a tsb on updating the check valves. It sounds like the m157 may have a bit tougher times in heavier cars with cylinder scoring.
You ever fix? If noise on startup after sitting, your cam adjusters are probably worn, there are aftermarket ones that supposedly won't wear out like oem ones. And pull valvecovers, inspect cams and valve buckets for abnormal wear.
i have a 2012 CLS550 which have a ticking sound like a diesel engine like sound, Cn you please tell me what is wrong
Is it your fuel injectors? If so it is ok.
Engine is toast
My Mercedes is S550 April 2015Y. Which year did the manufacturer solve this engine problem?
The timing chain was updated I believe in 2014 for USA. I've heard Taco mention 2015 for other places. They updated some tensioners and check valves later as well, not too big of an issue though, maybe 1700 and tbh many chain drive cars will need tensioners at some point.
My M278 oil level reads very low when cold, but only when I first pull the dipstick. I then reinsert/pull the dipstick and oil level is normal. This is my second Benz to do this, the other was an M276, and another guy on a forum said his 276 did the same thing. Completely baffling....
No the dipstick has not worked its way out, so when I pull it the first time it is in fact all the way down. My theory is Gremlins, because I do not have a better one. Curious if any others experience this, more curious if anyone knows why.
I think it has to do with the timing and how the oil is used to tension the chain. It is very difficult to get an accurate reading on the oil. I made a video just about when to check it.
Very informative video. Thanks.
Just wondering when remove the adjuster to be replaced. Timing will be secured not out?
should not need to be retimed when you pull adjusters and check valves.
Mercedes Benz of Germany is asking me for evidence of oil getting into the wiring harness via the magnets and sensors on the M278. If you have anything to do with the forums and can produce any evidence of this happening on the M278, please get in touch with me so I we can present it to them. They want to know if this has been happening enough to trigger a recall. It did happen to my 2013 M278 at around 65,000 miles just before I bought it according to the dealership who did the work and sold the car to me.
I could ask a few indy mechanics for some. Almost every time I'm in a shop I hear them talking about just completing one of them or currently working on them.
@@TunedMercedes I pointed them to a busy page on the forum as well as it happening to my 2013 but they are now staying quiet. Two weeks ago I spoke to Mercedes USA and the woman I spoke to said they will not address this regarding the M278. So it looks like I'll have to get them in court so I'm filing suit against Mercedes Benz USA, we're still gathering evidence so anything you have would be great.
@@TunedMercedes I told Mercedes Germany that I want them to make pigtails for the magnets and sensors for the M278 out of anti-capillary action wiring so we can just put them on and forget it ever was a problem. I think a judge would agree that would be a solution worth them doing at the very least.
@@MercedesMechanic They did it for other cars. Let me do a more intensive polls. I just been working really hard getting the tuning store up (can now buy tunes on tunedmercedes.com )
What engine is in the 2016-2019 GLE 63S?
should be m157. check displacement 5.5 vs 4.0.
I have a 2011 e550 I can smell gas in my coolant reservoir and some raw fuel as well. Where is it coming from?
head gaskets?
How about make sure the intake filters fit properly
wdym?
Good information! About the oil level, the manual just says the normal practice as usual: check oil level when cold. Why do you think we need to add more oil please? Thanks!
you may experience a rattle or noise
M156 has the headbolt issue which is probably the most expensive common problem. What would you say is the most expensive common problem for the m157, the front cylinders ??
cylinder scoring is likely the most expensive issue. Valves was expensive but someone on mbworld realized that you could use Nissan parts for the valve seals and similar.
Headbolts is a myth. Sure the issue exists but 1% of m156 cars had the problem if even that. About 1000
The engine harness issue is getting pretty common, even on the 2015-2017 engines.
@@TunedMercedes Weldon for the advice of valve seal, from South Africa,.
Man.. this is such a mindfck. I've been looking at XFR's and E63's ('13/'14). I always thought the 2013 onwards 5.0 Jag was a more simple fault-free engine, but now I'm scared to pick either of em. I'm planning on running a low milage stock and keep it like that but I can't deal with catastrophic engine issues (again).
The M157 and M278 are much better runners than the Jaguar 5.0 SC, but the Jags do put down power well. If you do go that route with the AJV8 I'd make sure it had the timing chain tensioners done (and done right). I have a lot of info on this on offroadrover.com
The 5.0 SC jag engine is way more reliable than m157/m278. I own all these motors I speak from good experience. The worse thing on the 5.0 jag engine is timing chain and a few coolant lines. Do frequent oil changes (5-7k) with quality oil and replace those coolant pipes you’ll be good. It’s also incredibly easier to work on than the m157/m278.
@@bimmere60ify agree to disagree. that jag engine makes m278 look like a Toyota. I do like the 4.2 SC but the 5.0 is timing, cam sprokets/adjusters, water pump, oil starvation. reading the jag and Range Rover forums would keep me up at night and it came to pass. I changed my oil often. the timing chain is really hard to change imho, had to redo it like three times because cam sprocket torque is listed too low in topix (maybe they changed it). Then some of the tensioners don't even deploy. Also disagree on it being easier to work on, except maybe you have more room in like a Range Rover compared to an SL.
@@bimmere60ify you know I've thought about it a bit more and I can understand the point of view the AJV8 are easier to work on in some jobs.
I would buy a Toyota Camry or a Lincoln tow car . Bullet proof .
Thanks for the info! I just purchased a 2016 GLE 63 (with the M157), do you think that some of those issues might have got fixed by 2016? Or is it pretty much the same engine along the years?
The timing is definitely improved. I am unsure they were ever able to address the issues with cylinder scoring and the valves. Not every car will suffer from it. There will be some warning in terms of very slight misfiring.
Upper timing front timing reseal issue
Did they fix this on the 2015 and up m157
there are some reports that the 2016 liner is different
So I've recently noticed a knocking/tapping coming from the right hand lower side of my engine in line with throttle changes. My 2012 CLS550 (M278) has 47k miles. I've done my own last 2 oil changes, I use Mobil 1 0w40 Synthetic with mb229.5 spec and I recently, with the help of your guides, did my own spark plugs which cleared my check engine light I used to get. It's very hard to say but I have only noticed the knocking recently, perhaps since I did the plugs. Any chance this could be related? My oil level seems fine, I check it after running for a couple minutes. I'm considering perhaps doing another change, running Liqui Moly engine flush first for a day or two, then doing the change and switching to Liqui Moly oil instead. Would you attempt this in trying to remedy the knocking or would you consider the spark plug change the culprit? Next would be a boroscope to check the cylinder walls I'm thinking but where I live, we have one dealership only, and man they are not trustworthy at all and incompetent so I'm cringing to take them something like this to diagnose. Any guidance would be appreciated, thanks.
I would run down oil level first/again. It is a PITA to set it right because so much gets stuck in the timing gear. It really needs to be at 80-90C then to wait about 30 minutes. Lifters make sounds like that when the oil level is off either high or low. I do think liquid moly or 5w-40 is likely slightly better than 0w-40 in warmer weather. the timing chain tensioners (actually all of it) was updated like 2014/2015-ish. Last thought is my car was really loud, and it turned out to be a loose O2 sensor -- you can tap the exhausts a bit and see if they rattle. Feel free to message me for more help.
@@TunedMercedes thanks, going to get started. How long does it take to get the oil up to that temp.? And isn't the exact oil capacity 8.5L?
@@c.a.n.4202 Temp would be like 80-90 C. About 10 minutes I guess running, then it is about 20-30 minutes to wait. At that point oil should be in the middle.
@@TunedMercedes I literally just cleaned up from trying the oil again. Flushed with Liqui Moly Engine Flush on a 15min drive. Extracted the oil. Switched to Liqui Mily 5w40. Added Liqui Moly 'Viscoplus'. After start up I could audibly tell the engine sounded quieter after doing all this but unfortunately, a few minutes later once warmed up, the ticking returned. It appears to be near cylinders 5 & 6 (drivers side towards the front of the car, lower part). I went to Mercedes today to pick up an OEM oil filter and while there begrudgingly made an inquiry about potentially needing a diagnostic for this ticking.........they told me first available apt. was in 3 god damn weeks!!! They are seriously the worst.
Ouch man. Sorry to hear that. If you want to post a video here or on mbworld I think you might get some ideas faster than three weeks.
Is this all years m278 have these problems.. I’m looking to buy e550 what years are good
all years are pretty good but they did upgrade the timing gear (Tasos has a great video on it) and they updated the spark plugs a bit later. Later M157s get more powerful. MB also split the cooling at some point. I am unsure of the exact years for this as it varies by market and perhaps model of car. In the USA they split cooling and updated the timing chain in 2014 for the CLS, I don't think they updated the tensioners later though. I would guess around 2014-2016 they were updated world wide.
a knocking issue last night just out of nowhere, and my AFR gauge on my 2013 ML550 went super lean(17:1-20:1). I babied it hardcore home. Shut the car off, started it back up and it's like it never even happened. I hadn't started it back up yet though today yet, I'm kind of paranoid now about it.
what do your sparks look like -- any update?
how do you know which motor you have, m157 or m278 on a 2013 mercedez bens s 550 twin turbo?
it will be 278. 157 is a 63
So are these issues more or less common on the 2015 and up s550 coupe?
Also I heard that you shouldn’t park the car in the rain too much is because it can get into the engine? I don’t know if that’s true can you educate me on that?
Also is there an ideal mileage to get these cars at?
I think 2015 will likely have updated timing gear, guides, and check valves. I have not heard that about the rain. I've driven in very hard rain and there were no issues aside from the computers slowing the car down for traction. It is likely a good idea to keep the car garaged though for looks etc, but not a requirement. I bought mine at a bit less than 5k miles and am at 40k now. I think they will run for 200k or so but they will require more work keeping them going at 80-120+. Things like hoses are often reported as breaking on mbworld.
How long should I wait to check the oil after running it when its -10F? Also I love this engine so much, despite being bigger I still get better gas mileage than my n54 did even in a 200lbs heavier car. , and stock for stock, a lot more power, and my car, was on it's 6th n54, thankfully the motor I had a discounted price to put in was warrantied.
6 n54s? that is crazy. I am unsure about at -10f. If at all possible it is like 20 minutes after hitting 90C operating temperature at 45-80. Is it possible to check in a garage? I'd guess maybe 10-15 minutes at -10F. How does M278 handle that type of cold weather?
Anybody can you tell me if a 2014 GL450 would be a good buy? 84k and it runs great with good maintenance history
PPI is good, I'd pull the front two sparks and check for cylinder scoring
Tsb says no consequential damage expected. So it's not necessary to do check valve and tensioner upgrade?
tbh I am not sure. I think some of the tensioners prob should be changed at some point as needed, the check valves, im not 100% on. I would guess the oil level would be easier to read with less fluctuation and there would be less startup noise. but I have heard from one mechanic they thought the old system was like that for a reason. I should ask him more about it.
@@TunedMercedeshi! Wanting to purchase a 2016 S550 which has the M278. Any updates on the timing chain tensioner replacement being required? I went to a dealer and started two different S550s, a 2015 S550 (80k miles) and a 2016 S550 (107k miles) and both of them had the same cold start engine rattle. But both of them also stopped rattling about 45sec after start up and they didn't have drivability issues. No hesitation, power issues, rough idle etc. Thanks!
@@russelalmanzor4056 2016 should have updated timing gear. no need to worry. If you'd like to check everything pre purchase you could ask for a compression test.
@@TunedMercedes what is a compression test? And what would it tell me if something was wrong? Thank you :)
@@TunedMercedes sorry one more question. If the 2016 S550 I checked out supposedly has the updated timing system but it still rattles at cold start for 45sec, is it still ok?
LIQUID MOLY OIL IS A GOOD OIL FOR M278 OR I STAY WITH OEM
5w-40 Liquid Moly is a very good oil that meets MB specs.
What's your opinion on a 2014 gl63 amd? I'm looking of buying it, it's done 75ks radiator, coolant hoses have been replaced. Would a normal mechanic be able to tell if something is wrong by looking at it? Or I need to take it somewhere to get it diagnosed?
I would do a pressure test or borescope on that. I think you can use xentry to do a pressure test via software. They are solid if everything is good. Be prepared to go to coil springs if you don't want to learn and deal with air suspension. I will say once u know air suspension it is not much more than springs, but it can be a failure point.
Great vid, thanks a lot! Any idea can my local shop replace those position sensors and is it expensive to do. Thanks a lot!
sure they are easy to replace, I'd guess an hour of time + parts. I'd guess maybe 200-300 is fair.
@@TunedMercedes Thanks!
I have the exact same problem in my engine... Front left cylinder wall is scored.. Has miss fire code pop up when hit the pedal to the metal.. And I have determined the cylinder wall is scored by checking it with a Bore Scope... Don't know what options I have.. Is there any recall on this issue... Car only has 122,000km... Car is in 8/10 condition and engine is the only issue
Call up MB they may help with goodwill
hey bro,what do you think about cls 63 2015-2016 for daily use with 80.000km (im thinking for stage 1 with downpipe)?
It is an awesome car. I think it is CLS 63 is one of the best values out there for the performance and luxury. I'd just try to borescope front to cylinders and run it hard to see if there are any small miss fires (will feel like pulling power momentarily).
@@TunedMercedes thanks a lot i will check ✌🏻
is it mostly the earlier years of the m278 with the linear issues? is there a production range where this is most common? doesn't sound like a huge issue though. great info, thanks.
AFAIK there isn't wasn't a cut off point for the engine issue, or fix for it later (no different part #s). Which leads some people to believe it's not actually a problem. I've heard some people say that it was an issue with just one of the machines and so some engines have it some don't. It often shows up before 100k miles. There is some thought the MB oem tune may be a little lean, and that makes sense given the emissions and efficiency push.
I'm thinking 5k mile OCI (personally I use a can of BG MOA), BOV, highest octane gas, not pushing it until it is warm may help.
Demetre of DTKM, others mention methanol may be helpful. I think I'm going to go with an Aquamist setup as my next power adding mod.
Did you ever add meth?
@@TunedMercedesdo u know what years of the m278 (2010-2014) that the check valve issue was prominent??
2013 they addressed the timing chain tensioner check valve.forget which engines numbers they started it.
This is basically the same issue as the Porsche in the early 2000…
What about the bending of the connecting rods?
Good call out. I've heard about that once or twice.
M276.820 had any of these cilinder press issue?
I’ve mostly seen them on the GLS forum. But there are some. Interestingly I believe they were all using MB stock tune and occur fairly early.
Sorry I thought you were mentioning the 278. I am unsure about the 276. I'll have to research that and get back to you.
Hey Matt, I researched it a bit more, there are some people and notation of cylinder scoring on the front cylinders. I haven't been able to find much about the valve issue. Most common seems to be timing gear. So I would just keep the timing gear up to date with changes in the tensioners and check-valves and change the oil maybe a bit more often than the 10k OCI. I know this is sort of a touchy issue but with Direct Injection engines I think it might be prudent to consider 5000-7500 mile oil change intervals.
@@TunedMercedes thanks for follow up. Just starting with MB actually. Last year picked up 2016 cls 400 from copart canada with 9100 original miles. Was bit scared initially because after delivery it turned out that car was never serviced in past 4 years! Air filters still oem from 2015, no oil change either. Car was just sitting for probably 2 years or more due to legal dispute. Got mini heart attack after seeing some random misfires on ciliders but after sorting car out and doing few 125mph motorway runs misfires are gone - at least for now!
@@mattkochanowski6196 You may want to consider sparks and coils if there are more misfires. according to OEtuning older spark plug part numbers were hot and can cause misfires when pushing it. LMK if you have any codes.
How do I know if my sensors are the bad ones? Is there a way to tell if they've been replaced yet?
on cam position sensors pull the connector plug off and look for oil. Best to check these each oil change
@@karrknutt3842 I just replaced all 4 sensors and cam magnets for $350 and it was quite easy to do.
I just found out why you should keep these parts replaced, my car has been transformed by replacing them, its got way more torque and speed and drives like its brand new. Amazing difference these sensors and magnets make. I'll replace again in 30,000 miles just to be sure they are in top condition.
Even they updated parts are leaking oil over time.
@@Strash.P how much time or miles?
I ran into the cylinder 5 misfire from the valves at 48k miles. Do you recommend proactively fixing cylinder 1 even though no code from that one while the engine is out?
that is tough because it is a different bank. apparently you can use Nissan parts to fix the valves for much cheaper.
@@TunedMercedes Hello there, mate. Can I get more information on this?
@@TunedMercedesisn’t cylinder 5 the front left one? Thanks
@@jrm163 port side, drivers side usa
Timing chain, tensioners and guides!!!
Just bought a 2014 CLS 63 AMG with 85k and 2 days into ownership I just had to take it into the dealership with a misfire in cylinder 5 and had to replace the fuel injector. $1800 to fix it🤦♂️.
Sorry to hear that but thx for sharing for others. Fuel injectors can be diy the seals etc add up.I’ve heard they have updated the injectors to better parts
Yeah the previous owner/dealer clearly knew and cleared any codes before you took ownership.
Why you go to the dealer there guy that could do for 300$
What do you think of E550 2014?
Solid nice car. Some complaints are tensioners, and some maybe some valve issues. Although it is coming clear you can use Nissan valves and seals to fix for quite a bit less. Overall solid engine and car imho.
Are M157 from 2014 to 2016 pretty much the same? Do you recommend tuning a E63S with 90k miles since it's an older car?
I would likely do something on a dyno and log it on the street to make sure everything is good. But I'd imagine it'd be fine if all the fluids are new and you have sparks and as needed coils
Great video
Thanks!
Is any way you can replace turbos from top of engine or has to be from bottom only. I’m thinking of getting on of this cars that’s why I’m asking?
the newer 4.0 turbos are on top but these are down low I believe on RWD you don't need to drop engine but on AWD you at least have to move the engine a bit or drop subframe a bit. technically it is engine out but not everything is always done by the book
@@TunedMercedes ok what I’m buying is a rwd but do think can be done from top. Cause I know from bottom . But if you the coolant tank from top and some other hoses do you think can be done?
If I remove the coolant tank and other hoses do you think is enough space to remove turbos
I think you’d have to remove the radiator and fan and maybe the bumper. Let me look for a video I saw once
@@TunedMercedes would you mind send the link of video please? I will appreciate it I have looked in RUclips but I haven’t found nothing yet
What about M152? What's your opinion on this derived engine?
i mean it’s quite literally an M157 without turbos, so i imagine similar issues (with the exception of turbo parts obviously)
For cam shaft sensors you can buy parts to modify this issue
To prevent $15000k bill yes $15,000
And what would that be
Yes please elaborate!
I have a 2014 E550 4matic, how would I know if my engine is old, also sometimes when I turn it on in the morning there is a kinda like rattle noise that goes away in 1 or 2 seconds, and later in the day I don't hear the sound until the car sit till next day
Just sounds like hydraulic tappets building up oil pressure
yeah, that is the tensioners needing a bit of oil. The official fix is to install check valves. I don't believe it is super necessary except to fix sound.
@@TunedMercedes same got the e550 2014 does the rattle as well but water pump i think is leaking is that super bad? How much is it to replace and what else should be done?
Awesome. 😃😃😃
It’s the direct injection that’s causes carbon deposit to get into the rings ..
thanks for info
Like box from fpc
Cls 63 amg S 30,000 miles black Florida car for sale
what a great gran tourer. Hope she found a good home
Dude said not a lot
in one way i know what u mean but in another way your prob at 145k miles plus when u get those issues. and some ppl say the face lift is updated add in the oil solenoid mod and u can really only talk about a handful of modern engines that will go as long as it can before it dies