I followed the common advice and got some dedicated race day shoes (Vaporfly 3) and did very minor and short speed sessions on them. Then race day came, I put them on and ran super fast. Until I pulled my soleus muscle. My quads were super fresh and my calves quite sore. It turns out that my running form completely changed with the carbon shoes, using different muscles. And because I hadn't trained on them, those muscles were weak and I ended up with an injury. So yes, I think there is value on training with your race day shoes. The mantra goes "nothing new on race day". I went to the physio and she asked me why didn't I train on the same shoes I used for racing. The question was so simple that I couldn't answer it.
Jakob Ingebrigtsen, says he does every treshold/speed session on road or treadmill with Vaporfly. But then again he gets them for free, and he trains very high volume of 182 km per week and has 4-5 treshold sessions pr week. He doesnt believe they make him weaker or something like that. Thats from a Norwegian podcast where he talks much about his training.
Used to train everyday on carbon plates shoes until I injured myself. Didnt knew at the moment the reason and after a couple of weeks of rest I was running again.... again on carbon plates, the pain was back just one or two runs ofter my comeback. I changed back to non carbon and bingo, pain gone. Now I do all my trainning on non carbon plate shoes, but once or twice a month I used them for race simiulations. The product is amazing, they are fast, but the stiffness is also an issue, I really abused at the moment running everyday on them, and ended up injured. I recommend to use them only when its necessary.
I am with you - love saving the carbon shoes to help me feel really good and fast on race day - the contrast in feel over heavier daily shoes gives me a mental boost.
For reference I’ve trained the last 90% of all runs & 2,250 miles in: Zoom Fly, Zoom Fly Flyknit, Zoom Fly Flyknit, Zoom Fly 3, Zoom Fly 3, plus old Vaporfly 4%s for track days with no known adverse effects related to plated shoes. I’ve had some hamstring injuries but that is attributed to sitting way too much at a computer all day and not stretching ever. (I started stretching and strength training since)
Personally, I use them for interval based sessions and faster tempo runs. They aren't designed to go slow in. However, If you have a pair then you can use them how you want to!!
I think that 80% of your weekly mileage should be in a daily trainer. But if you are gonna race a half marathon or full marathon in a carbon plated shoe then you should probably wear them once a week in your long runs. So you are used to how the shoe feels and performs, that way you won't get any nasty surprises on race day. And since the long run is the closest thing to the actual race then I feel that is the perfect run to practice everything that you intend to do on race day.
Love my carbon plated shoes and do most (60-80%) of my daily training in them. The only reason I mix it up with runs in other non-carbon plated shoes are because of my ankles that get sore after to much running in carbon shoes.
Very good point! As lately I have found the same. The last session I switched to a pair of non-carbon plated (the Invincible Run 1) and my sore-all-the-time right ankle suddenly felt OK through out the run.
I think I’m with you on this one. I usually train in non-carbon shoes, apart from the odd speed session, and race in the plated shoes. I recon you get that extra psychological boost from slipping on those beasts as well as the speed advantage. I think there is definitely a place for putting 20 plus miles in a pair just to get used to them before a race though. Looking forward to doing a couple of sessions in my Adidas Adizero Adios Pros once the weather picks up.
I totally agree with you on this take. I have the NIKE Zoom Fly 3 (one of NIKE's first carbon plate running shoes, correct me if I'm wrong) and up to this day I find the shoes a bit intimidating to run in. I mean, I wear them on days that I wanna run faster like doing intervals or fartleks and such, but it would never be my first choice to wear for running. I feel like I almost have to prepare my legs/feet all the time before I actually run in them. I tweaked my calf wearing the zoom fly 3 the first time I got them, ever since then I kinda stopped running in them. Just recently, I started running in them again. Honestly, I would like to have a pair of the endorphin speed or the vaporfly's but at this point, I just want to stick to the shoes I bought last year. I didn't know running would get this expensive. Anyways, if you're a runner and you enjoy running in carbon plate running shoes, that's awesome. However, there are some of us who find these carbon plate shoes a little bit intimidating to run in and you almost kind of have to think about your form while running. Maybe that's just me, I don't know.
Chris, the other argument is recovery in these plated shoes is so much better!! I did a 20 in Speed then 20 in Rincon. Not even close!!! Therefore I do everything beside Easy in the Speed. For easy I’ll use EVA foam but what a difference from TPU.
Speed with pebax is so different from carbon shoes. Keeps legs fresh 👍 It is easy to run in almost any shoe but how you feel afterwards is the key here..
I've been trying loads of shoes recently but none were carbon plated as I didn't think I was a good enough runner - and mainly run for fun and fitness, not races. Then I saw HOKA sale and the Carbon X2 was down to just over £100 so I got them. I can't really afford lots of shoes for different types of run, so I am just wearing them on all my runs. They are amazing shoes and so far have done me a lot of good. They feel responsive but also have a good amount of cushion. So no injuries so far or any trouble at all. In fact a lower back pain I had been getting has actually gone which is amazing! I think for my next birthday I may treat myself to some Vapourflys but right now I'm happy with these. I can't see me ever going to non-carbon for any running.
I completely agree with your position on using plated shoes for races (and time trials) and SOME speed/interval work. Not all speed work and definitely not daily miles.
I've been running in Air Zoom Tempo Next% with composite plate in them for 4-5 years. I decided to use Soft Invincible 3 for my long runs, after 17km I got injured and decided to return them and now only training with plated shoes. My running style adapted to be more front/mid sole and flat shoes without plate are better for my feet but not for my Achilles or Hip joint.
My experience using carbon plated shoes amounted to bruised big toes, sprained ankle and achilles on the negative side !. On the positive side, when I persevered, I could use them for long runs maybe twice a week when feeling tired as the plate and cushions allowed me to up my mileage . I am an older 55+ runner.
The Nike Alphafly allows me to run without pain and injury. The carbon plated shoes seem to DECREASE risk of injury not increase it. If you can afford to train in carbon plated shoes then obviously you should. I can’t think of one single draw back…
At roughly a pound per mile Alphaflies are really expensive to be training in. Everything else being equal that should stop most people from training in them very often. That said I think the Endorphin Speeds are definitely a training shoe rather than a racing shoe. The point of the nylon plate is less about improving performance than about reducing fatigue on long runs, which definitely has some training benefit.
I’ve just started running in the Brooks Hyperion elite 2. I’ve had two runs in them, first from I was all over the place because I wasn’t used to how fast they went but the second one I did a speed intervals and it really help me push my pace forward. With regards to it being artificially quicker, I think that yes it is but running at that a quicker pace is pushing you out of your comfort zone and therefore helping you increase your stamina to be able to run at those higher speeds. That way when you’re not wearing them you have trained at a higher pace so you should be able to run faster without them as well. I’ll be using my mainly for speed sessions and races but once in a bit more used to them I will take them out for a half marathon test run and then I’ll start wearing the more as well as I get closer to actual races this year (fingers crossed). So in short, I don’t think you should wear them for every training session but definitely to help increase your speed as running at a higher pace to improve your stamina and allow you to run a high pace anyway.
@@FordyRuns from the perspective of saving your legs I think it’s a great idea to train in them. But I do understand your point about gaining that surprise on race day. If they make your recovery easier then you can train harder!!
Yes, I use carbon for all my runs…New Balance fuel cell elite v2…reason is I’m old,lol, a newbie and also need the best, marshmallow ride due to having just had C5-C7 cervical fusion…the cushion is like nothing else, I’d gladly pay $1,000.00 per year, not even close though to be injury free and having the feeling of walking on a cloud…also it’s like biking, I’m training on my race bike, not a trainer,lol
I do progression runs in the Vaporfly. I use them once per week. I also use a Stryd to help me train for races. I plan on racing in a carbon plate shoe. It’s important to me to log some specific types of runs in a similar shoe to my race shoe so I have an accurate threshold power number. I understand your argument but many folks use different shoes to help them perform better with specific types of training runs. Carbon plate shoes are just another tool that can be intermittently employed to get a job done.
I’ve been running in the speed for my tempo runs and the tc for my long runs. My legs feel better after-allowing me to recover better. Most easy runs in nonplated shoes
My daily trainer is the Speed 2 which is a nylon plated shoe and I'll sprinkle in the Pro 2 for good measure. These shoes are just ultra fun to run in! Cheers
@@FordyRuns Hi Fordy! I definitely fall in to the second category so want to treat myself but therefore obviously want something that's going to be a bit more durable. What are the best shoes that fall into this category like the NB.. thinking Saucony & Brookes Hyperion Elite 2 maybe? Love a pair of vaporflys but not sure they'd last as well...
If you examine it in the performance aspect we all have a finite amount of energy to output (watts) given any race distance and if you train with a plated shoe it effectively gives you your savings up front and it's up to you or your coach to program effectively to take that into account and train with equivalent wattages as opposed to pace, because if you pace match then you're effectively leaving a small percentage of performance in the tank per training session. Whereas if you train with a regular shoe and take your savings during the race you'll likely have an overall increase in pace if you are able to match your training wattages. Of course you would also build in several race pace or over-pace sessions with a plated shoe so that you actually have a feel for the difference in dynamics and turnover.
100% I did the bulk of my training in normal shoes. Then I wore the Vaporfly for race day. During the race the feel was so different that I didn't know what pace was right. All of a sudden my target pace felt way easier with the Vaporfly and I felt like I was leaving something in the tank, so I needed to push it. But I didn't know how much to push, I didn't know what was sustainable. Additionally, my running form changed and ended up having a soleus injury. All because I hadn't trained on them. Training with one shoe and then running with another that uses different muscles seems like a recipe for disaster!
I was reading some of the comments below. At my local running shoe store, I got on their treadmill and tested both the Saucony Endorphin Pro and the Endorphin Speed. They are close cousins but I felt just a little more pop from the Pro, therefore I chose it. The Speed is more versatile but I don't need versatility. I have plenty of shoes in my rotation that cover the bases. I think the Pro gets shortchanged and doesn't sell as well because Nike must still be regarded as a shade better in the carbon plate choices. Regardless, I am super happy I could afford a carbon plated shoe to experiment with.
To answer the question... would have to say even using a carbon plate shoe is not a necessity if you're an everyday runner. It's just a cool, luxury thing to have if you've got enough money. Only makes sense to use it in a race situation, or to get your legs used to the shoes ready for that goal race. Carbon shoes are essential if you're a pro runner, and the stakes connected to winning and losing are a lot higher.
Coming from constantly getting calf / achilles injuries, I have had nothing since running in the Endorphin Speeds to mainly use them for most of my runs. It feels they make me run more efficiently and put less strain on the body. Interested to know other people's thoughts but as long as I can keep runni g injury free, I am happy
I started to use a plated shoe ( Nike Next %, zoomfly fk and Endorphin speed, which are all brilliant shoes) to do my tempo runs or faster training sessions, but it led to me using them for 90% of my road runs, including longer runs and I'd wear them all the time. I'm now recently suffering from plantar fasciitis and believe it's because of running in a plated shoe so often.
Definately agree easy days are not for carbon shoes, I only pull out my 4s for my seasons hardest 1-3 workouts and don't touch my nexts until race day. There is an interesting place though for weird not race carbon shoes though for midweek long runs, actual long runs, and workouts. By this I mean shoes like the carbon X or a zoom fly. I think that those shoes are pretty good for that kind of run
I’m thinking train and race in the same shoe. Form and efficiency vary dramatically between shoes, and if you don’t spend tons of time in a shoe you aren’t going to be as efficient as possible. Also doesnt training in your most efficient shoe allow you to push your workouts that much farther and practice at that high rate? I do get the concern with overwear because of the stiffness though
I am a total layperson about this. However, I just bought my 1st carbon plated shoe, the Saucony Endorphin Pro on clearance for $149.95 now that the Pro 2 is out. I wanted to experiment and the price was affordable for a change for a carbon plated shoe. To me, these shoes are racing shoes. I will break them in just a little bit to get a feel of them. After that I will only use them when I race whether the distance is 5K, 10K, half marathon, or my 1st full marathon. I am also going to be mindful if they hurt my feet in any way. Some reviewers say that if you are a slower runner, carbon plated shoes do you no good. The plate does not get activated until you run fast enough. Other reviewers say whatever speed you travel, a carbon plated shoe will help. I did a test of another kind. I have quite a good rotation of Skechers and Hoka shoes. On my daily runs, I timed myself over 4 miles and found whether or not I wear a SK Razor 3+ or a H Clifton 7, my time is the same. Perhaps that could be different on longer runs but it may be that when you have a race speed of 10min/mile or slower, any good running shoe will do. If further experimentation proves this for me, hello Hoka Bondi's!
The main problem with carbon plated shoes is that they negate the windlass effect of the plantar fascia ( your foot natural springboard ) by being very stiff. This is done as a mean of running efficiency and economy but by not allowing your foot to work in a natural way there is a lot more load on the achilles tendon. That's why i save mine for my long tempos and do the rest in low to the ground and more flexible shoes like some Adios for example
This! I would say that using a carbon plated shoes for daily training makes your feet lazy and weak. Flexible shoes for my daily training and carbon plated for race day, all though I tend to go for my Nike Zoom Fly 3's when it comes to the more speedier intervals.
I do all runs in plated shoes. They are lightweight and protective. I don't race so why not enjoy it while it lasts. My rotation - RCV2, Deviate Nitro Elite, Speed 2, Rocket X.
I'd say run in whatever makes you smile Fordy 😃..I've got a few pairs of carbon plated shoes and nylon plated shoes...if im running 10 k plus I go for more cushioned shoes (vapour fly next % and saucony endorphin speed) for shorter distances ill reach for my tempo next % or zoom fly, fly nit...
To add on to my previous reply is that I am in a HM training plan and using the Adidas Adizero Pro (not the Adios) for long runs were I do pick up the pace somewhere during the run. I also agree the Speed is so comfortable and my legs are more resilient and recover much quicker so I use them for the track sessions. Hopefully the Saucony Pro adds that extra "Pop" over the Speed.
@@jameschaves5723 I agree totally. Did a 6 x 1600 with 600m immediately followed by squats 3 x 15, calf raises 3 x 25 and hamstring exercises wearing the Speed and the legs feel way better than I would have imagined. And man are they comfortable to.
Yes definitely carbon for your tempo and threshold sessions. I save my Nike's (next%) solely as a race shoe but train in anything from zoom fly 3, ASICS metaracer (awesome) , Adidas adizero pro (meh) and my older Nike 4%. Easy days are Nike peg 37, Nike miler, and Boston 8s. If you are marathon training then doing some long runs at close to race pace in fast shoes can do wonders for the confidence levels. For my 2:43 marathon (London 2019) my training was almost all zoom fly for anything other than easy runs with my Nike 4% for the race. Chris
I wore a pair of ASICS Metaracer carbon plate shoes for training. At the first 60miles, it was superb. But it degrades so fast after. I ended up injuries my waist muscle and rest for a month! It’s not dangerous for stiffness when they are new and bouncing, no different with 20 usd shoes for ASIC metaracer in my case.
I did use carbon for faster runs.Nowdays nylon plate feels better than carbon for training. Most of the runs training without plates, using nylon only for speed sessions. Shoe rotation is important when running daily. Avoiding hard midsoles but changing shoes for every run to get different feel for legs and to make shoes last longer. No need for marginal seconds in training, carbon only for racing nowdays.
@@FordyRuns speed sessions yes, not for easy runs. Like steady threshold or 1km repeats. But any other shoe thats fast and comfortable and keeping the legs fresh afterwards will do it as well 👍
I could never be compared to you but I own a few pairs of shoes because I want to find out how each one of them feels in my runs.. Notwithstanding, none of them is a carbon plate shoe.. Paying almost double in it being less durable is not attractive to me, personally.. Waiting for Asics to feed the stock with Metaracers or a brand new carbon plate shoe from Mizuno to hit the shelves to get my first one 😉
Interesting video, I've recently picked up the Saucony Endorphin Speed and the Hoka Carbon X 2 and was wondering exactly the same thing! Ignoring cost, I'm going through a marathon training programme at the moment and I'm going to use the two plated shoes for anything other than easy / recovery runs. 3 weeks in, I'm feeling pretty good and that I'm making progress so I'm sticking with the plan 😄
@@FordyRuns I've only done a couple of runs in them but very impressed so far, super smooth and pretty quick! I get what you said in the video about plated shoes so it's interesting that Hoka market them as racing and training shoes.
I train in carbon all the time. You need to know what your limit / pace is in the trianers you will be racing in. I toggle between my Vaporflys. Endorphin pro. NB tc and the alphas. The Tc is my daily and can work at any speed. Within reason. I legs don't hurt as much the day after with running in carbon. But I'm still doing 6:50-7:30 per mile pace.
Another thing to consider, when the shoe is designed they surely must factor in an optimum weight of the runner when deciding the thickness and length of the plate. So if you are really light or heavy you won't be able to get the plate flexing in its sweet spot. Just a thought.
I agree! As I’m not as tall as I should be for the weight I carry around with me; I decided not to go for the ZoomX foam carbon plted shoes by Nike, but the slightly firmer, more durable & less expensive React Foam, the ZoomFly 3’s.
I think if you train w/ the carbon plate and springy foam you miss the opportunity to develop the muscle coordination and plyometric ability of your lower leg and foot. Carbon shoes should be for race day magic.
I've come to the conclusion that a shoe different days (daily trainer, tempo shoe etc) is just nonsense. Better to train in a shoe you feel most efficient in. For me that's something really light and minimal. I even find the Pegasus too heavy and clunky which gives me sloppy form. I agree though, Carbon shoes for race day.
My only problem that stops me from training in these is my poverty. CF plated are generally designed for races, where durability is not a top concern. The rubber on race shoes doesn’t last that long….. Training in these is very financially practical. But I do love CF plated shoes. I have a Nike hiking/military shoe that has CF plate in it. I love every step I took in it.
Personally, don't if you compete , to build your strength and stamina . If you are just an enthusiast or part of your work out and do not compete then wear whatever you want (budget also as a factor).
I see your point Chris and I share your opinion that these shoes help you to run faster with just half of the effort. I have 2 questions related to shoes that I currently train in: 1. Do you think that the Speed and mainly the TC lose their purpose under these basis? I mean, you buy them as "training partners" since they are not primarily competition day shoes cause they have less rigidity than other racing shoes (speed) or they are a little bit too overweight to be a racing option (TC); 2. The Glideride is not a plated shoe but its rigidity and geometry makes you "artificially" run not faster but longer. So, do you think that this can also fall in the same category? I mean, could this be detrimental to your training too? Thanks. Greetings from 🇧🇴
Oh these are two great questions! Actually I think the speed and tc have carved out a niche that you can comfortably train in them and with them being not as racy you can benefit from the tech . The GlideRide is a great point but for me I embrace that tech in terms of providing stability and reducing energy loss over the longer distance.
I prefer rotating shoes based on the type of training. You make a good point that you must work harder with some shoes (non-carbon plated). I wonder of the professional athletes train in them?
Always wondered if training in plated shoes all the time had any negatives. For me personally I've had injuries in all types of shoes so it's hard to tell what's best for me. What seems interesting is that elites using plated shoes for all the runs, just thinking if there was serious negatives of doing this surely they wouldn't do it. It's a hard one to judge but I think for sure after long runs non plated vs plated, my legs feel less battered in plated shoes.
Good question Fordy. I only use my carbon plated shoes, ZoomFly3’s, the last few, usually two, speed- threshold sessions before a race (to get used to the slightly different gait cycle), and on raceday itself. Other than that I use my daily trainers, even for my tempo runs (my Peg37’s, eventhough I have sort a love/hate relation with them).
That’s a good mix I think ... seems the zoom fly 3 is a popular shoe from the comments. I didn’t really do much in mine maybe I should drag them off the shelf
Used to train in the speed, did cause damage to the ligaments in the bottom of my foot, the physio said it was because of the rigidity of my shoes, like he said the Kenyans don't train in their carbon plated shoes.
Hello Fordy! Do you think this type of shoe is good for overpronators? I am looking for a "stability shoe" that is light weight and responsive for my fast pace runs. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated! Cheers friends and greetings from California.
I've only ran in one carbon shoe, I do feel the speed benefit with them but not the biggest fan of losing the 'feel' of the shoe due to it being stiffer, I guess that's just trade off, I'm not sure if it's like that in all Carbon shoes?
Love all your shoe review videos!! I've just spent hours watching so many of them! I just got the Endorphin Speeds and found them to be very fast! I am after a daily shoe now to save the Endorphins for faster runs
Thanks for your video. This is really at this point an unknown whether to go all in on carbon based shoes or not outside of course the higher costs in a tough economic environment. Some experts feel that the rigid plate and propulsion will be easier on your body because you are running with more efficiency and thus in end will be prolonging your running life and tendency for injuries. As a 77yr old avid competitive runner I find this interesting. Other experts feel constant use of these super plated propulsion shoes will lead to more injuries particularly in the achilles and plantar areas. Thus for now I am going to use my endorphin speed 2 shoes for speed work and race day and wait to the experts sort this out.
I was running in carbon plated shoes and they first gave me Achilles pain which now has morphed into mild plantar fasciitis. I believe that they are not good for your feet and legs. It’s a shame because I love the shoes but they don’t love me.
@@FordyRuns a lot of people want to wear them so they look faster Strava. I also feel shoe manufacturers do not want to bring this issue to light since they don’t won’t people too stop buying their expensive high margin shoes in a big hooha an article might bring up.
It’s a great shoe and you are the second person to mention it. It’s a good example as this is sold as training and competition and with the softer compound doesn’t act as still so maybe this is the answer?
I'm now at the point where I'm looking for a new trainer. I've been using the Aasic gel cumulus and found them to be too wide at the front. I've still managed a few PB runs though. I'm usually going between 6mile and half distance and always aim to keep high pace. Can you recommend a lightweight trainer not too wide at the front?
I bought the Hoka Rocket X and the Adidas Adizero Pro to train in I also have the Nike Zoom Fly 3 but rarely run in it. I don't race but would like to in the future.
I have yet to run in it. It’s borderline too tight so I might return it. Not sure if it fits into a category I need other than a training partner with the SL20. It was on sale for $109 so I thought I'd give it a try.
Yeah just use them for races other than breaking them in. I found it interesting though that you never seen much difference when you used them in normal training other same course's. Maybe the next video should be are they worth the money? I ran in a pair of track spikes nearly 10 years ago that had a carbon plate in them so it's not new technology it probably cost the shoe companies more to produce newer foams than the carbon plates????
That’s a good point and the r&d in the midsole compounds etc defo prob more! I was using a nylon plate and for sure the faster runs were easier no doubt but was that artificial?
I would like to have some scientific evidence that it actually improves anything at my level before risking to impact my training / racing with such a specific / stiff kind of shoes. I’m pretty sure it is safer and more productive to train your body (and make it stronger) with more regular shoes (I’m not talking about the minimalist hype, the Reebok you shown is a perfect exemple of simple daily trainer). Train heavy, race light (and stiff ?)
@@FordyRuns even without the smart dude, it is fair to acknowledge that you don’t put F1 suspension on a regular car... Same, safe to bet that running at 20km/h might be helped by a lot of foam and a plate to stabilize things a bit (I don’t believe in the energy return stuff...)... but what about us, mere mortals... :)
I’m too cheap to even consider training in them. $2 Cost per mile makes things each training run pretty expensive just for that killer strava post! Assumes 125miles of maximum pop. Maybe train in them once they aren’t racers.
nope I only race or sharpen with days before a race in the carbon shoe (Meteracer)... because they are bloody expensive and I wanna save the shoe, no other reason has science
If you want to use them more then just use them for time trials or fake races every few weeks. Using them more will weaken your foot muscles and lead to injury or negative fitness
Definitely just races. Similar to you I like mentally knowing I've got that extra boost to come. Gives me a bit more confidence. Plus the £ per mile is expensive so why waste it on training runs lol.
Carbon plates are made to spring you forward? So why would you want them for easy runs 🤔 I think it's pointless training in any expensive shoe to be honest
I use mine when I’m doing my long marathon paced runs, if I had something like 2 mile easy 12 @ marathon pace 2 easy then this is it fir me, also sometimes for my Tuesday threshold run where I might have 20mins easy 20-40 mins threshold 20 easy also for this type of run,
@@FordyRuns yes if I had an easy long run I wouldn’t use them, I’ve had my alphafly’s 6 months and only have 20miles in them, just started a training block so looking forward to getting some more miles in them,
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I followed the common advice and got some dedicated race day shoes (Vaporfly 3) and did very minor and short speed sessions on them. Then race day came, I put them on and ran super fast. Until I pulled my soleus muscle. My quads were super fresh and my calves quite sore. It turns out that my running form completely changed with the carbon shoes, using different muscles. And because I hadn't trained on them, those muscles were weak and I ended up with an injury.
So yes, I think there is value on training with your race day shoes. The mantra goes "nothing new on race day".
I went to the physio and she asked me why didn't I train on the same shoes I used for racing. The question was so simple that I couldn't answer it.
I agree
Jakob Ingebrigtsen, says he does every treshold/speed session on road or treadmill with Vaporfly. But then again he gets them for free, and he trains very high volume of 182 km per week and has 4-5 treshold sessions pr week. He doesnt believe they make him weaker or something like that. Thats from a Norwegian podcast where he talks much about his training.
Used to train everyday on carbon plates shoes until I injured myself. Didnt knew at the moment the reason and after a couple of weeks of rest I was running again.... again on carbon plates, the pain was back just one or two runs ofter my comeback. I changed back to non carbon and bingo, pain gone. Now I do all my trainning on non carbon plate shoes, but once or twice a month I used them for race simiulations. The product is amazing, they are fast, but the stiffness is also an issue, I really abused at the moment running everyday on them, and ended up injured. I recommend to use them only when its necessary.
What sort of injury ?
Yeah I think this unfortunately the downside . I’m glad you back healthy and Tks for the input
I am with you - love saving the carbon shoes to help me feel really good and fast on race day - the contrast in feel over heavier daily shoes gives me a mental boost.
100%
For reference I’ve trained the last 90% of all runs & 2,250 miles in: Zoom Fly, Zoom Fly Flyknit, Zoom Fly Flyknit, Zoom Fly 3, Zoom Fly 3, plus old Vaporfly 4%s for track days with no known adverse effects related to plated shoes.
I’ve had some hamstring injuries but that is attributed to sitting way too much at a computer all day and not stretching ever. (I started stretching and strength training since)
Great feedback thank you
Personally, I use them for interval based sessions and faster tempo runs. They aren't designed to go slow in. However, If you have a pair then you can use them how you want to!!
Very true!
I think that 80% of your weekly mileage should be in a daily trainer. But if you are gonna race a half marathon or full marathon in a carbon plated shoe then you should probably wear them once a week in your long runs. So you are used to how the shoe feels and performs, that way you won't get any nasty surprises on race day. And since the long run is the closest thing to the actual race then I feel that is the perfect run to practice everything that you intend to do on race day.
Really good points
Love my carbon plated shoes and do most (60-80%) of my daily training in them. The only reason I mix it up with runs in other non-carbon plated shoes are because of my ankles that get sore after to much running in carbon shoes.
The upside and the downside mentioned there... seems ideally use them but not all the time
You could run in carbon 20% and non carbon 80% and feel much better to avoid injuries
Very good point! As lately I have found the same. The last session I switched to a pair of non-carbon plated (the Invincible Run 1) and my sore-all-the-time right ankle suddenly felt OK through out the run.
I think I’m with you on this one. I usually train in non-carbon shoes, apart from the odd speed session, and race in the plated shoes. I recon you get that extra psychological boost from slipping on those beasts as well as the speed advantage. I think there is definitely a place for putting 20 plus miles in a pair just to get used to them before a race though. Looking forward to doing a couple of sessions in my Adidas Adizero Adios Pros once the weather picks up.
Very good points
I totally agree with you on this take. I have the NIKE Zoom Fly 3 (one of NIKE's first carbon plate running shoes, correct me if I'm wrong) and up to this day I find the shoes a bit intimidating to run in. I mean, I wear them on days that I wanna run faster like doing intervals or fartleks and such, but it would never be my first choice to wear for running. I feel like I almost have to prepare my legs/feet all the time before I actually run in them. I tweaked my calf wearing the zoom fly 3 the first time I got them, ever since then I kinda stopped running in them. Just recently, I started running in them again. Honestly, I would like to have a pair of the endorphin speed or the vaporfly's but at this point, I just want to stick to the shoes I bought last year. I didn't know running would get this expensive. Anyways, if you're a runner and you enjoy running in carbon plate running shoes, that's awesome. However, there are some of us who find these carbon plate shoes a little bit intimidating to run in and you almost kind of have to think about your form while running. Maybe that's just me, I don't know.
Great take on it! I agree a lot of comes also down to money
Chris, the other argument is recovery in these plated shoes is so much better!! I did a 20 in Speed then 20 in Rincon. Not even close!!! Therefore I do everything beside Easy in the Speed. For easy I’ll use EVA foam but what a difference from TPU.
This is a good point those recovery runs do feel easy in the speed
Speed with pebax is so different from carbon shoes. Keeps legs fresh 👍
It is easy to run in almost any shoe but how you feel afterwards is the key here..
I've been trying loads of shoes recently but none were carbon plated as I didn't think I was a good enough runner - and mainly run for fun and fitness, not races. Then I saw HOKA sale and the Carbon X2 was down to just over £100 so I got them. I can't really afford lots of shoes for different types of run, so I am just wearing them on all my runs. They are amazing shoes and so far have done me a lot of good. They feel responsive but also have a good amount of cushion. So no injuries so far or any trouble at all. In fact a lower back pain I had been getting has actually gone which is amazing! I think for my next birthday I may treat myself to some Vapourflys but right now I'm happy with these. I can't see me ever going to non-carbon for any running.
Still going good?
@@mysteriousblast2435 yeah I recommend HOKA. But I also like my new Nike Alphaflys for long runs and have an eye on the Brooks Glycerin! LOL
I completely agree with your position on using plated shoes for races (and time trials) and SOME speed/interval work. Not all speed work and definitely not daily miles.
Yeah I think that’s the way to go
I've been running in Air Zoom Tempo Next% with composite plate in them for 4-5 years. I decided to use Soft Invincible 3 for my long runs, after 17km I got injured and decided to return them and now only training with plated shoes. My running style adapted to be more front/mid sole and flat shoes without plate are better for my feet but not for my Achilles or Hip joint.
My experience using carbon plated shoes amounted to bruised big toes, sprained ankle and achilles on the negative side !. On the positive side, when I persevered, I could use them for long runs maybe twice a week when feeling tired as the plate and cushions allowed me to up my mileage . I am an older 55+ runner.
The Nike Alphafly allows me to run without pain and injury. The carbon plated shoes seem to DECREASE risk of injury not increase it. If you can afford to train in carbon plated shoes then obviously you should. I can’t think of one single draw back…
Easy runs when u need cushion
At roughly a pound per mile Alphaflies are really expensive to be training in. Everything else being equal that should stop most people from training in them very often. That said I think the Endorphin Speeds are definitely a training shoe rather than a racing shoe. The point of the nylon plate is less about improving performance than about reducing fatigue on long runs, which definitely has some training benefit.
I love this comment the flip side to the argument and you are not wrong which is why I’m wondering what to do 🤦♂️🤦♂️
Excellent point!! Reducing fatigue.
I’ve just started running in the Brooks Hyperion elite 2. I’ve had two runs in them, first from I was all over the place because I wasn’t used to how fast they went but the second one I did a speed intervals and it really help me push my pace forward. With regards to it being artificially quicker, I think that yes it is but running at that a quicker pace is pushing you out of your comfort zone and therefore helping you increase your stamina to be able to run at those higher speeds. That way when you’re not wearing them you have trained at a higher pace so you should be able to run faster without them as well. I’ll be using my mainly for speed sessions and races but once in a bit more used to them I will take them out for a half marathon test run and then I’ll start wearing the more as well as I get closer to actual races this year (fingers crossed). So in short, I don’t think you should wear them for every training session but definitely to help increase your speed as running at a higher pace to improve your stamina and allow you to run a high pace anyway.
Yeah I think you are right and glad you dig the brooks
@@FordyRuns They are so much fun to run in!!
nylon > carbon fiber just ask Saucony which shoe they're having trouble keeping stocked it ain't the Pro's
I disagree, the speed is so much better than the Pro.
I love the versatility of the speed and I’m so tempted to live in them but like I said in the video was wondering if it’s a good thing or bad thing
@@FordyRuns from the perspective of saving your legs I think it’s a great idea to train in them. But I do understand your point about gaining that surprise on race day. If they make your recovery easier then you can train harder!!
Yes, I use carbon for all my runs…New Balance fuel cell elite v2…reason is I’m old,lol, a newbie and also need the best, marshmallow ride due to having just had C5-C7 cervical fusion…the cushion is like nothing else, I’d gladly pay $1,000.00 per year, not even close though to be injury free and having the feeling of walking on a cloud…also it’s like biking, I’m training on my race bike, not a trainer,lol
I do progression runs in the Vaporfly. I use them once per week.
I also use a Stryd to help me train for races. I plan on racing in a carbon plate shoe. It’s important to me to log some specific types of runs in a similar shoe to my race shoe so I have an accurate threshold power number.
I understand your argument but many folks use different shoes to help them perform better with specific types of training runs. Carbon plate shoes are just another tool that can be intermittently employed to get a job done.
You are defo onto something I think switching them in for certain sessions is the way to go maybe
Absolutely!! I’ll do a long run in the Speed with the middle 10 miles at MP!
I’ve been running in the speed for my tempo runs and the tc for my long runs. My legs feel better after-allowing me to recover better. Most easy runs in nonplated shoes
I’m glad the speed working out
I train mainly in the Saucony Ride 13, I occasionally wear my Endorphin Speed for a speed session but choose to keep them for races or time trials.
I’m on the same path as you
My daily trainer is the Speed 2 which is a nylon plated shoe and I'll sprinkle in the Pro 2 for good measure. These shoes are just ultra fun to run in! Cheers
I used the new balance fuelcell tc for my easy to faster pace long runs and daily runs. It’s my training shoes.
This is a great shoe to use as an example it’s designed for training and racing and some other shoes are the same
@@FordyRuns Hi Fordy! I definitely fall in to the second category so want to treat myself but therefore obviously want something that's going to be a bit more durable. What are the best shoes that fall into this category like the NB.. thinking Saucony & Brookes Hyperion Elite 2 maybe? Love a pair of vaporflys but not sure they'd last as well...
If you examine it in the performance aspect we all have a finite amount of energy to output (watts) given any race distance and if you train with a plated shoe it effectively gives you your savings up front and it's up to you or your coach to program effectively to take that into account and train with equivalent wattages as opposed to pace, because if you pace match then you're effectively leaving a small percentage of performance in the tank per training session. Whereas if you train with a regular shoe and take your savings during the race you'll likely have an overall increase in pace if you are able to match your training wattages. Of course you would also build in several race pace or over-pace sessions with a plated shoe so that you actually have a feel for the difference in dynamics and turnover.
Wow this is an awesome insight thanks so much for sharing it’s really interesting
So, you’d need something like a Stryd footpod, for example, to monitor your power during you run?
100%
I did the bulk of my training in normal shoes. Then I wore the Vaporfly for race day. During the race the feel was so different that I didn't know what pace was right. All of a sudden my target pace felt way easier with the Vaporfly and I felt like I was leaving something in the tank, so I needed to push it. But I didn't know how much to push, I didn't know what was sustainable. Additionally, my running form changed and ended up having a soleus injury.
All because I hadn't trained on them.
Training with one shoe and then running with another that uses different muscles seems like a recipe for disaster!
I was reading some of the comments below. At my local running shoe store, I got on their treadmill and tested both the Saucony Endorphin Pro and the Endorphin Speed. They are close cousins but I felt just a little more pop from the Pro, therefore I chose it. The Speed is more versatile but I don't need versatility. I have plenty of shoes in my rotation that cover the bases. I think the Pro gets shortchanged and doesn't sell as well because Nike must still be regarded as a shade better in the carbon plate choices. Regardless, I am super happy I could afford a carbon plated shoe to experiment with.
To answer the question... would have to say even using a carbon plate shoe is not a necessity if you're an everyday runner. It's just a cool, luxury thing to have if you've got enough money. Only makes sense to use it in a race situation, or to get your legs used to the shoes ready for that goal race.
Carbon shoes are essential if you're a pro runner, and the stakes connected to winning and losing are a lot higher.
I’m not a fan of training in carbon plated shoes, just use them for certain workouts and races. Great video!
Thank you!
Coming from constantly getting calf / achilles injuries, I have had nothing since running in the Endorphin Speeds to mainly use them for most of my runs. It feels they make me run more efficiently and put less strain on the body. Interested to know other people's thoughts but as long as I can keep runni g injury free, I am happy
I train in carbon plated shoes only. No issues at all.
I started to use a plated shoe ( Nike Next %, zoomfly fk and Endorphin speed, which are all brilliant shoes) to do my tempo runs or faster training sessions, but it led to me using them for 90% of my road runs, including longer runs and I'd wear them all the time. I'm now recently suffering from plantar fasciitis and believe it's because of running in a plated shoe so often.
This seems a common problem reading the comments
Definately agree easy days are not for carbon shoes, I only pull out my 4s for my seasons hardest 1-3 workouts and don't touch my nexts until race day. There is an interesting place though for weird not race carbon shoes though for midweek long runs, actual long runs, and workouts. By this I mean shoes like the carbon X or a zoom fly. I think that those shoes are pretty good for that kind of run
Yeah good point!
I’m thinking train and race in the same shoe. Form and efficiency vary dramatically between shoes, and if you don’t spend tons of time in a shoe you aren’t going to be as efficient as possible. Also doesnt training in your most efficient shoe allow you to push your workouts that much farther and practice at that high rate? I do get the concern with overwear because of the stiffness though
I am a total layperson about this. However, I just bought my 1st carbon plated shoe, the Saucony Endorphin Pro on clearance for $149.95 now that the Pro 2 is out. I wanted to experiment and the price was affordable for a change for a carbon plated shoe. To me, these shoes are racing shoes. I will break them in just a little bit to get a feel of them. After that I will only use them when I race whether the distance is 5K, 10K, half marathon, or my 1st full marathon. I am also going to be mindful if they hurt my feet in any way. Some reviewers say that if you are a slower runner, carbon plated shoes do you no good. The plate does not get activated until you run fast enough. Other reviewers say whatever speed you travel, a carbon plated shoe will help. I did a test of another kind. I have quite a good rotation of Skechers and Hoka shoes. On my daily runs, I timed myself over 4 miles and found whether or not I wear a SK Razor 3+ or a H Clifton 7, my time is the same. Perhaps that could be different on longer runs but it may be that when you have a race speed of 10min/mile or slower, any good running shoe will do. If further experimentation proves this for me, hello Hoka Bondi's!
Great feedback thank you!
The main problem with carbon plated shoes is that they negate the windlass effect of the plantar fascia ( your foot natural springboard ) by being very stiff. This is done as a mean of running efficiency and economy but by not allowing your foot to work in a natural way there is a lot more load on the achilles tendon. That's why i save mine for my long tempos and do the rest in low to the ground and more flexible shoes like some Adios for example
Very interesting and Tks for the facts!
This! I would say that using a carbon plated shoes for daily training makes your feet lazy and weak. Flexible shoes for my daily training and carbon plated for race day, all though I tend to go for my Nike Zoom Fly 3's when it comes to the more speedier intervals.
I do all runs in plated shoes. They are lightweight and protective. I don't race so why not enjoy it while it lasts. My rotation - RCV2, Deviate Nitro Elite, Speed 2, Rocket X.
I'd say run in whatever makes you smile Fordy 😃..I've got a few pairs of carbon plated shoes and nylon plated shoes...if im running 10 k plus I go for more cushioned shoes (vapour fly next % and saucony endorphin speed) for shorter distances ill reach for my tempo next % or zoom fly, fly nit...
Yeah you know what you are ON THE MONEY
To add on to my previous reply is that I am in a HM training plan and using the Adidas Adizero Pro (not the Adios) for long runs were I do pick up the pace somewhere during the run. I also agree the Speed is so comfortable and my legs are more resilient and recover much quicker so I use them for the track sessions.
Hopefully the Saucony Pro adds that extra "Pop" over the Speed.
I find recovery so easy after the Speed. I did a 20 miler in the Rincon and you can’t compare them to the Speed. Imagine doing a 20 in Atreyu???
@@jameschaves5723 I agree totally. Did a 6 x 1600 with 600m immediately followed by squats 3 x 15, calf raises 3 x 25 and hamstring exercises wearing the Speed and the legs feel way better than I would have imagined. And man are they comfortable to.
They are so comfy!
If you could only have one pair which would it be?
@@FordyRuns the Speed!! Honestly I haven’t seen a shoe like this since original Hoka Clifton 1
I train on the track with the Speed. I use the SL20 for tempo/hill combo workouts and the Adidas Pro for long run days. I race in the Saucony Pro.
If you could only have one of those which would it be?
Yes definitely carbon for your tempo and threshold sessions. I save my Nike's (next%) solely as a race shoe but train in anything from zoom fly 3, ASICS metaracer (awesome) , Adidas adizero pro (meh) and my older Nike 4%. Easy days are Nike peg 37, Nike miler, and Boston 8s.
If you are marathon training then doing some long runs at close to race pace in fast shoes can do wonders for the confidence levels.
For my 2:43 marathon (London 2019) my training was almost all zoom fly for anything other than easy runs with my Nike 4% for the race.
Chris
Very interesting tks
I wore a pair of ASICS Metaracer carbon plate shoes for training. At the first 60miles, it was superb. But it degrades so fast after. I ended up injuries my waist muscle and rest for a month! It’s not dangerous for stiffness when they are new and bouncing, no different with 20 usd shoes for ASIC metaracer in my case.
I did use carbon for faster runs.Nowdays nylon plate feels better than carbon for training. Most of the runs training without plates, using nylon only for speed sessions. Shoe rotation is important when running daily. Avoiding hard midsoles but changing shoes for every run to get different feel for legs and to make shoes last longer.
No need for marginal seconds in training, carbon only for racing nowdays.
So you think nylon for those non racing days?
@@FordyRuns speed sessions yes, not for easy runs. Like steady threshold or 1km repeats. But any other shoe thats fast and comfortable and keeping the legs fresh afterwards will do it as well 👍
I could never be compared to you but I own a few pairs of shoes because I want to find out how each one of them feels in my runs.. Notwithstanding, none of them is a carbon plate shoe.. Paying almost double in it being less durable is not attractive to me, personally.. Waiting for Asics to feed the stock with Metaracers or a brand new carbon plate shoe from Mizuno to hit the shelves to get my first one 😉
I wanna try those mizuno !
Interesting video, I've recently picked up the Saucony Endorphin Speed and the Hoka Carbon X 2 and was wondering exactly the same thing!
Ignoring cost, I'm going through a marathon training programme at the moment and I'm going to use the two plated shoes for anything other than easy / recovery runs. 3 weeks in, I'm feeling pretty good and that I'm making progress so I'm sticking with the plan 😄
Keep me posted! How you finding those x2?
@@FordyRuns I've only done a couple of runs in them but very impressed so far, super smooth and pretty quick!
I get what you said in the video about plated shoes so it's interesting that Hoka market them as racing and training shoes.
Just bought a paid of Hoka Carbon Rocket but realise the heel drop is only 1mm. Should I buy heel pads to increase the heel drop?
I’d send them back why adjust them if they ain’t right for you
I train in carbon all the time. You need to know what your limit / pace is in the trianers you will be racing in. I toggle between my Vaporflys. Endorphin pro. NB tc and the alphas. The Tc is my daily and can work at any speed. Within reason. I legs don't hurt as much the day after with running in carbon. But I'm still doing 6:50-7:30 per mile pace.
Great feedback Tks
This video and the comments helped me decided on which shoes to buy. Thank you all.
Welcome
Another thing to consider, when the shoe is designed they surely must factor in an optimum weight of the runner when deciding the thickness and length of the plate. So if you are really light or heavy you won't be able to get the plate flexing in its sweet spot. Just a thought.
Very true
I agree! As I’m not as tall as I should be for the weight I carry around with me; I decided not to go for the ZoomX foam carbon plted shoes by Nike, but the slightly firmer, more durable & less expensive React Foam, the ZoomFly 3’s.
I think if you train w/ the carbon plate and springy foam you miss the opportunity to develop the muscle coordination and plyometric ability of your lower leg and foot. Carbon shoes should be for race day magic.
I've come to the conclusion that a shoe different days (daily trainer, tempo shoe etc) is just nonsense. Better to train in a shoe you feel most efficient in. For me that's something really light and minimal. I even find the Pegasus too heavy and clunky which gives me sloppy form. I agree though, Carbon shoes for race day.
This is a good point actually and prob over looked
My only problem that stops me from training in these is my poverty. CF plated are generally designed for races, where durability is not a top concern. The rubber on race shoes doesn’t last that long….. Training in these is very financially practical. But I do love CF plated shoes. I have a Nike hiking/military shoe that has CF plate in it. I love every step I took in it.
Personally, don't if you compete , to build your strength and stamina . If you are just an enthusiast or part of your work out and do not compete then wear whatever you want (budget also as a factor).
I see your point Chris and I share your opinion that these shoes help you to run faster with just half of the effort. I have 2 questions related to shoes that I currently train in: 1. Do you think that the Speed and mainly the TC lose their purpose under these basis? I mean, you buy them as "training partners" since they are not primarily competition day shoes cause they have less rigidity than other racing shoes (speed) or they are a little bit too overweight to be a racing option (TC); 2. The Glideride is not a plated shoe but its rigidity and geometry makes you "artificially" run not faster but longer. So, do you think that this can also fall in the same category? I mean, could this be detrimental to your training too? Thanks. Greetings from 🇧🇴
Oh these are two great questions! Actually I think the speed and tc have carved out a niche that you can comfortably train in them and with them being not as racy you can benefit from the tech . The GlideRide is a great point but for me I embrace that tech in terms of providing stability and reducing energy loss over the longer distance.
I prefer rotating shoes based on the type of training. You make a good point that you must work harder with some shoes (non-carbon plated). I wonder of the professional athletes train in them?
I think those elite boys I can’t compare against but it’s for sure something interesting to understand more about
Always wondered if training in plated shoes all the time had any negatives. For me personally I've had injuries in all types of shoes so it's hard to tell what's best for me. What seems interesting is that elites using plated shoes for all the runs, just thinking if there was serious negatives of doing this surely they wouldn't do it. It's a hard one to judge but I think for sure after long runs non plated vs plated, my legs feel less battered in plated shoes.
That’s true they do
Good question Fordy. I only use my carbon plated shoes, ZoomFly3’s, the last few, usually two, speed- threshold sessions before a race (to get used to the slightly different gait cycle), and on raceday itself. Other than that I use my daily trainers, even for my tempo runs (my Peg37’s, eventhough I have sort a love/hate relation with them).
That’s a good mix I think ... seems the zoom fly 3 is a popular shoe from the comments. I didn’t really do much in mine maybe I should drag them off the shelf
I use them once every few weeks! I find when if I train in my other shows when I get to race in my carbon ones I feel like I’m flying haha
Yeah I’m with you ... used selectively they can be deadly
Used to train in the speed, did cause damage to the ligaments in the bottom of my foot, the physio said it was because of the rigidity of my shoes, like he said the Kenyans don't train in their carbon plated shoes.
Sorry to hear that!
Hello Fordy! Do you think this type of shoe is good for overpronators? I am looking for a "stability shoe" that is light weight and responsive for my fast pace runs. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated! Cheers friends and greetings from California.
Hey thanks for commenting! The ASICS gel nimbus lite 2 defo worth a look
I've only ran in one carbon shoe, I do feel the speed benefit with them but not the biggest fan of losing the 'feel' of the shoe due to it being stiffer, I guess that's just trade off, I'm not sure if it's like that in all Carbon shoes?
Some are I think the TPU based speed is a good example of the perfect compromise
I do and have Fun doing so.
Mind kinda guy
Love all your shoe review videos!! I've just spent hours watching so many of them! I just got the Endorphin Speeds and found them to be very fast! I am after a daily shoe now to save the Endorphins for faster runs
Thank you!!!
Thanks for your video. This is really at this point an unknown whether to go all in on carbon based shoes or not outside of course the higher costs in a tough economic environment. Some experts feel that the rigid plate and propulsion will be easier on your body because you are running with more efficiency and thus in end will be prolonging your running life and tendency for injuries. As a 77yr old avid competitive runner I find this interesting. Other experts feel constant use of these super plated propulsion shoes will lead to more injuries particularly in the achilles and plantar areas.
Thus for now I am going to use my endorphin speed 2 shoes for speed work and race day and wait to the experts sort this out.
Speed 2 is a hall of famer for sure
I only train in them, when i get close to a race :) Beside that i keep them out of my training rotation!
That’s another good point bringing them in closer to race day
I was running in carbon plated shoes and they first gave me Achilles pain which now has morphed into mild plantar fasciitis. I believe that they are not good for your feet and legs. It’s a shame because I love the shoes but they don’t love me.
This is some of the negatives I spoke about it’s a problem I think that doesn’t get spoke about
I had similar issues when I first tried running in my nike zoom fly fly knit...however I could run in the % percent every day with no issues
Plated shoes will cause Plantar fasciitis if you train in them.
That’s what I’m wondering
@@FordyRuns a lot of people want to wear them so they look faster Strava. I also feel shoe manufacturers do not want to bring this issue to light since they don’t won’t people too stop buying their expensive high margin shoes in a big hooha an article might bring up.
What about the new balance fuel-cell TC
It’s a great shoe and you are the second person to mention it. It’s a good example as this is sold as training and competition and with the softer compound doesn’t act as still so maybe this is the answer?
@@FordyRuns I should have gone with the TC over the Atreyu
I did most of my long runs since last may in the tc and it’s worked great for me! I’ve been wondering myself why I don’t run in it most days
I'm now at the point where I'm looking for a new trainer. I've been using the Aasic gel cumulus and found them to be too wide at the front. I've still managed a few PB runs though. I'm usually going between 6mile and half distance and always aim to keep high pace. Can you recommend a lightweight trainer not too wide at the front?
ASICS gel nimbus lite 2
I bought the Hoka Rocket X and the Adidas Adizero Pro to train in I also have the Nike Zoom Fly 3 but rarely run in it. I don't race but would like to in the future.
How you find the pro? I found it very stiff
I have yet to run in it. It’s borderline too tight so I might return it. Not sure if it fits into a category I need other than a training partner with the SL20. It was on sale for $109 so I thought I'd give it a try.
Yeah just use them for races other than breaking them in. I found it interesting though that you never seen much difference when you used them in normal training other same course's. Maybe the next video should be are they worth the money?
I ran in a pair of track spikes nearly 10 years ago that had a carbon plate in them so it's not new technology it probably cost the shoe companies more to produce newer foams than the carbon plates????
That’s a good point and the r&d in the midsole compounds etc defo prob more! I was using a nylon plate and for sure the faster runs were easier no doubt but was that artificial?
I would like to have some scientific evidence that it actually improves anything at my level before risking to impact my training / racing with such a specific / stiff kind of shoes. I’m pretty sure it is safer and more productive to train your body (and make it stronger) with more regular shoes (I’m not talking about the minimalist hype, the Reebok you shown is a perfect exemple of simple daily trainer). Train heavy, race light (and stiff ?)
Me too! I’d love some really clever dude to tell me the facts
@@FordyRuns even without the smart dude, it is fair to acknowledge that you don’t put F1 suspension on a regular car... Same, safe to bet that running at 20km/h might be helped by a lot of foam and a plate to stabilize things a bit (I don’t believe in the energy return stuff...)... but what about us, mere mortals... :)
It takes load off your PF. Great for racing, terrible for daily training as strength (injury resilience) will decline
I’m too cheap to even consider training in them. $2 Cost per mile makes things each training run pretty expensive just for that killer strava post! Assumes 125miles of maximum pop. Maybe train in them once they aren’t racers.
Good point
i use the for some speed sessions but for everyday training i don’t use my carbon shoes
Yeah same as me
nope I only race or sharpen with days before a race in the carbon shoe (Meteracer)... because they are bloody expensive and I wanna save the shoe, no other reason has science
Very good points
If you want to use them more then just use them for time trials or fake races every few weeks. Using them more will weaken your foot muscles and lead to injury or negative fitness
Interesting point of view thanks for sharing
Which is the best carbon shoe? I need a shoe just for my pt test?
Out and out speed then the Vaporfly
Definitely just races. Similar to you I like mentally knowing I've got that extra boost to come. Gives me a bit more confidence. Plus the £ per mile is expensive so why waste it on training runs lol.
Yeah defo
Carbon plates are made to spring you forward? So why would you want them for easy runs 🤔 I think it's pointless training in any expensive shoe to be honest
True good point
buying carbon plate running shoes can cause serious injury to your pocket... add some simple mainstream running shoes to your training rotation
Good point
i just felt like runnin
I do train in carbon shoes as all my shoes are carbon plated
Do you get injured or is it fine?
Nope not at all :)
I use mine when I’m doing my long marathon paced runs, if I had something like 2 mile easy 12 @ marathon pace 2 easy then this is it fir me, also sometimes for my Tuesday threshold run where I might have 20mins easy 20-40 mins threshold 20 easy also for this type of run,
So selectively then ?
@@FordyRuns yes if I had an easy long run I wouldn’t use them, I’ve had my alphafly’s 6 months and only have 20miles in them, just started a training block so looking forward to getting some more miles in them,
I hate carbon
Thanks for sharing your opinion!