Please people spend more time in prayer and reading the Word of God.God ,the author of His own words is the best source of understanding what He meant or planned for us . Let us not dwell in this divisiveness anymore about who is wrong or right.God is never wrong.The Church is very much divided at the moment.God bless everyone.
I am a Baptist pastor who does not hold the belief of Calvinism but I have pastor friends who do. We have never let our differences come between our fellowship or our unity in winning people to Christ!
@@AM-6030 Oh, and how do you know what he was thinking when he wrote his comment? And why are you seemingly trying to create a division among the Saints? "Now I plead with you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. "For it has been declared to me concerning you, my brethren, by those of Chloe’s household, that there are contentions among you. Now I say this, that each of you says, “I am of Paul,” or “I am of Apollos,” or “I am of Cephas,” or “I am of Christ.” Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul? I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, lest anyone should say that I had baptized in my own name. Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas. Besides, I do not know whether I baptized any other. For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of no effect."
@@rocketscientisttoo I'm not trying to cause division. I'm seeing the Calvinist influence on his comment and calling him out for it. If I'm wrong, he can correct me, and I can apologize.
@@HannahColyer “…who were born, not of blood, NOR OF THE WILL OF THE FLESH NOR OF THE WILL OF MAN…..BUT OF GOD!! Don’t cherry pick verses. Don’t rip verses out of their contexts. Just because you do not agree with a verse doesn’t mean you can twist it to your own understanding. Romans 9:11 “though they were NOT YET BORN and had done nothing either good or bad-IN ORDER that God’s PURPOSE OF ELECTION might continue, NOT because of works BUT because of Him who CALLS.”
@@snakeeaterapc142 Who's cherry-picking? Begin with the simple/straightforward, and use those to inform the murky. 2 Peter 3:9 is as clear as it gets, both in and out of context: "The Lord does not delay His promise, as some understand delay, but is patient with you, not wanting ANY to perish but ALL to come to repentance." Once I really FACED this passage, and didn't discard it and several others that flew in the face of TULIP....I abandoned Calvinism in favor of God's Word itself.
@@snakeeaterapc142 no no no no no. the predicating action is when people "recognize" christ. The effect is being born of god. You've reversed the order and sloppily justified calvinism. All of calvinism is sloppy.
At 60 I see gods hand in my life all the way back to my childhood. I didn’t see it then but it’s all playing back to me now as my faith is growing in Christ. It’s like seeing god saved me from myself so many times because I should be dead but now I’m more alive than ever. I am forever grateful for gods mercy in my life for I deserve to die but now I’m saved by grace and Christ . A debt I can never repay
I'm 71 now. When I was 7 years old, I heard the gospel from an evangelist who went around in his station wagon pulling a trailer like thing that held a tent on it to put up in a town. I thought the grown ups that brought me to this meeting all believed in the gospel. I thought it was grown up stuff that they thought was my time to hear. It only takes 15 minutes to tell Paul's gospel. I heard it and believed it right away. It was good news to me too. I told my mom and the others sitting next to me that I do believe in that salvation that would save me from hell and give me eternal life to heaven. Turned out my mom and the grown ups with her didn't believe when they heard! They were not mad at me or anyone. They just said, "Do you really believe what that man said?" I said, "yes, but I don't get why you all don't." The preaching of that gospel sounds like foolishness to those who are perishing. I didn't know any of that for years and years later. I was not around any Christian people until I left home. Why me and not them? I don't know. I also understood that God saved me from me just like you noticed.
@@orangeandslinky god sees the heart when he laid that seed in you as a child . He knew it would take root and grow . God bless you and have a good day
Amen! Like parallel tracks on a railway, predestination and freewill are both true, a paradox. He already knows who will choose, but He also gives us freewill to choose
It's not what he knows,,, it's whom he knows, he knows them because he birthed the before the foundation of the world before they did any evil or good according to his will and purpose. Why does God only save part of mankind, the real question is why he saves any since all are rebels and sinful as the next. It does this for his own glory.. and that of His only begotten son.
Free will is such a mind boggling concept. If we have the ultimate free will then we are like god, aren't we? can we, of ourselves, choose God rather than ourselves? What does the Bible say? In Ephesians 2:8-9 we read "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast." Ephesians 2:8-9 NKJV The ESV might make it a little clearer "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast." Both translations say that the faith that saves us is not our own faith but a faith that God gives to us.
@@myname-ns1rp how come some of Jesus biological brother wasn’t save . John 7:5: "For even his own brothers did not believe in him". That’s why I say don’t be simple minded. It up to God not us who choose to do the saving
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.
@@arielson90 "God is not willing that ANY should perish..." He is talking in the above scripture to scoffers who say the Lord will not return because He didn't show up when they thought He would. It is to give as many people as possible the opportunity to repent and be saved.
When i was studying this out before we left the Calvanist church we were attending, I was in prayer one morning, weeping for our wayward son. Suddenly, this thought came into my mind, "He's probably just not one of the elect." Instantly, I knew without a doubt that we were dealing with false doctrine. Satan wanted me to stop praying for him! To give up! I knew why we had to teach our children the gospel, but why would we pray for them? Why would God command us to pray for them, have us weep over them, if from before birth they were hopelessly condemned??? The more i studied, the more i found the clear evidence from the beginning to the end of scripture of the desire of God for ALL men to be saved! "Why will ye die?" Jesus Himself pleaded with men! Why would He do that if He already chose who was saved and who was condemned? It's borderline heretical!
It is not a case of Him "choosing" who is saved. It is a case of Him *knowing* who will be saved because HE IS ALL KNOWING. He knows the ones who will reject Him and He knows the ones who will accept Him, He doesn't hand pick them He just knows the ones who are His which is why Jesus said: *John 6:37-40* All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”
"God is not willing that ANY should perish, but that ALL should come to everlasting life" Predestination is NOT referring to salvation, but rather the transformation of those who are being saved. We are predestined to be TRANSFORMED INTO THE IMAGE OF CHRIST. God desires this for ALL of us, but gives us the choice to accept or not, this precious gift of salvation.
It never ceases to amaze me that there are so many who profess faith in Christ, yet recoil at the notion of a Sovereign God who chooses to act according to the counsel of His own will…
@ who are ‘they’ and by what standard are you able to authoritatively define what Sovereign means or doesn’t mean? Without consulting a thesaurus, sovereign means ‘in control, either declaratively or permissively, of EVERYTHING’…
Service is for believers for rewards in heaven. First Corinthians 3:11-15. Romans 4:5. But to him that worketh not, but BELIEVETH on Him who JUSTIFIETH the UNGODLY, his faith is counted for righteousness. Romans 4:2-3. Just as Abraham was justified by faith 430 years before Moses gave the law. For if Abraham were justified by works, he would have something to glory/boast in, but not before God. Romans 3:26-28.
So beautifully said. Thank you Jesus for your faithfulness. As long as a person has breath in their lungs they have a chance to repent and cry out to Jesus for forgiveness, conversion and salvation through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit 🙏
Most of the time. I believe all have the option to accept or reject Christ.) However, there are last words and famous quotes of many that voiced they’ve waited too late! Some even shrieked of demons waiting to usher them into Hell. So it’s not wise for anyone to believe they could wait until their last nanosecond to repent. Usually by then, the conscience is so seared, they can’t muster the change of mind. (Repentance.) Some may even appear to but just won’t a Savior from Hell, not sin! So if anyone reading this is not yet born-again, do not put it off. Allow the commandments to bust you unto Godly sorrow, turn away from reserving the freedom (of bondage…funny how that works, huh?) to sin and turn to Christ in trust. Blessings.
I believe God already knows everyone who is going to be saved he knows their heart better than we know our own and he knows who will keep the faith and be for him when he comes back he knows everything. I would never underestimate the knowledge of God when he made everything that was made including us. God bless
Did you not just listen to that sermon and you didn't hear what he said?? Because your comment completely contradicts what he said. We don't keep the faith. Our salvation has nothing to do with what we do and is all from the power of God, for His glory! If we have faith it is through the grace of God that we have received it. It is not from us so that no man can boast.
Actually, God knows who has been sealed upon being born again. When we are sealed by the Holy Spirit, we are also adopted by God to be his children. We are His forever kids! We are automatically the elect! So, yes, even children old enough to understand the Gospel are members of the elect!
@@pilgrimwings1295and you wouldn't have faith if it weren't granted by God first. That's how it works. Not that you first believed and God foresaw it...
This preaching never fails to minister to me. I too have been concerned about my son. He was raised up in the church although I must admit I didn’t do as good a job as I should have. He is married to a young woman who doesn’t want Jesus mentioned in the house (I was widowed in 2021) . She doesn’t say anything about saying grace at supper. But this message has been so encouraging. I long for them and my grandchildren to come to the Lord.
Well if you're Calvinist you might be longing for them to do something against God's will. Thank God Jesus is not Calvinist. He loves your son and daughter in law. Keep praying that The Holy Spirit will convict them of their sins and draw them to Jesus.
Sadly, there are those within the church who, though they profess faith with their mouths and claim to believe in their hearts, show no evidence of godly sorrow that leads to true repentance, as described in Scripture. They have not turned away from sin and continue to walk in willful disobedience, deceiving themselves into thinking they are saved. The Word of God makes it clear that genuine faith is accompanied by a transformed life, bearing fruit in keeping with repentance (2 Corinthians 7:10; Matthew 3:8; James 2:17).
@@tonywaber8482 Calvinists don't know. That's the issue. It's a chance, just like spinning the wheel on Wheel of Fortune. You won't know until you land in one or the other.
@@tonywaber8482 No, not according to John Calvin. But the bible says that all who trust in Christ for salvation are the elect in Christ. God promises to keep them.
At the time of my salvation I had an experience of Jesus raised from the dead. This was very instrumental in my salvation. I also heard the Lord say to me; 'If you do not accept me as Lord and Saviour you will go to hell.' This was also instrumental in my salvation. Jesus wasn't just playing with words, words that were just window dressing. The choice was real. It was my decision and Jesus made that plain to me. I said yes to Jesus and my life was transformed.
Amen brother, our willingness and obedience go hand in hand, i'm so happy you said yes to his call. May the Lord Jesus Christ Bless you and your transformation and sanctification process! ✝️🙏
He knows everything about everybody. The difference, for those who are saved, they can rejoice with Him when seeing Him at work. For example, maybe you'll convince only one person in your life to turn to the Lord. But that one person was chosen by God to turn thousands to Him. So Love everybody, even your enemies. Keep preaching. Listen (=Do) what God says
One of the reasons I like Voddie is (unlike some other Calvinists) he isn’t afraid to talk about the contentious positions they adhere to and I respect that. But I can't agree with Voodie's take on predestination and the doctrine of the elect, allow me to explain why. A long time ago I attended a church for a year before the pastor eventually confirmed his Calvinist beliefs. It’s a long story but this church transitioned from ultra charismatic to ultra Calvinist. My family’s time there was the ‘in-between’ year when it was sat at ‘mid swing’. We were there by God’s leading and were greatly blessed with what was probably our best church experience - I’ll come back to this at the end. In this latest video Voddie is trying to justify his position on the doctrine of pre-destination and the elect. The doctrine of the elect requires some theological extrapolation (some might say ‘gymnastics’) and is a subject that I am happy to revisit from time to time so that I can review my own understanding and position on. So, I watched and listened to the video in anticipation. Voddie is a good preacher and many people will be convinced and reassured by this preach but I ended up being even more skeptical than I was before. Did anyone else get the feeling he was hanging on to an entrenched position almost desperately trying to convince himself? At 7:50 Voddie links salvation with a “chain of events” that God is already aware of. Of course, Voddie is absolutely correct. God is outside of our known reality and ultimately controls everything. He knows and always has known everything including those who are saved. At this point in the video, Voddie could concede (but he doesn’t) and accept that God’s ways are beyond our understanding and although the Bible gives us many insights and prophesies we are ultimately unable to dictate His plans to Him. Despite revealing many mysteries to us in His word, God doesn’t reveal everything. Why? Because, first and foremost, God demands our obedience through the gift of faith. Unfortunately, certain reformists and Calvinists act as though knowledge is the goal; often knowledge only they possess! The inherent problem with knowledge is that we can get so wrapped up in our intellect that we prevent God from revealing the things He wants to us to know. Knowledge isn’t the goal; obedience is. The wrong kind of knowledge can make us arrogant. It can even make us think we are elite or elect??? The Pharisees were warned and rebuked by Jesus for this. Our Lord said, “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to” - Matthew 3:13. God reveals those things that would serve a purpose in helping us obey and follow him. Deuteronomy 29:29 is a key verse here, “Secret things belong to the Lord our God, but those that are revealed belong to us and our descendants forever, so that we might obey all the words of this law”. I appreciate this verse might be rejected at source by the reformed church’s penchant for replacement theology. Don’t worry, I’ll avoid opening that can of worms! Back to the video. From 12:00 to 13:25 Voddie directly addresses the parent’s dilemma of ‘What if my children are not elect’. He uses the analogy of the sower to encourage parents to tell their kids about the gospel. This is scripturally very sound and there are many bible verses to support it, not least Proverbs 22:6. But according to the doctrine of the elect, if someone is (or is not for that matter) predestined there is nothing you can do to alter God’s decision. It seems Voddie is conceding his argument by not putting his trust in predestination. What if the parents don’t have those conversations but instead trust their ‘pre-destined’ beliefs that their children will be saved anyway? Personally, I wouldn’t want to go against God’s guidance in the Bible and take that risk. I think what he’s trying to say is God has also predestined the conversations the parents should and will have. I can’t help thinking he’s playing to his audience and covering all his bases here while clinging on to his deeply held belief in the doctrine of the elect. Why can’t Calvinists accept they don’t know everything? I might be a little disingenuous with that statement but when I listen to men like Voddie Baucham and John MacArthur I can’t help sensing a lack of humility. Over the years I’ve been to most types of protestant churches. I was born again (oh dear, another problematic area for reformists) at 19 years old and had no preconceptions. I was an open book ready and willing to get to grips with my new life. I thought going to church* would be a good place to start. Over the years, I realised just how fragmented the church is. Recently, I’ve realised there is a particular divide. It’s not immediately obvious, especially if you haven’t been exposed to a range of denominations. When you do see it you start to appreciate the extent to which it has divided the body of Christ**. The divide I’m referring to is the difference between the Reformed (predominantly Calvinists) and the Charismatics (predominantly Pentecostals). This is most notable in their respective attitudes towards ‘the spiritual gifts’. If you don’t know what I mean then a simple Google search along the lines of ‘cessationism versus continuationism’ will keep you busy for weeks! I believe the result of this divide is more significant than people appreciate. The two extremes have become so obsessed with their respective positions that I wonder if they’ve left any room for God. All that said, both sides share the following traits - Their respective practices have empowered their leaders. Both often have large congregations and online following. The leaders often achieve celebrity status, even in the smaller organisations. Most ‘mega churches’ adhere to one side or the other. You rarely see a surprising or reluctantly appointed leader, the bible is full of them but these types of churches are not. It’s not unusual for leaders to be ‘self appointed’ or selected by a small group of ‘insiders’. The congregation are rarely actively involved or have any influence over the important functions of the church. The leaders maintain a tight grip and control of the organisation. It’s a ‘followship’, rather than a fellowship. These seemingly ‘at odds’ groups certainly appear to have a lot in common. Does that remind you of any secular ideologies? The church I referred to earlier in the message had most of these traits to one extent or the other when it was in one of the extremes. But during ‘the swing’ there was a brief moment when the congregation felt like ‘one body’. It was during this time the pastor was least confident, torn between his charismatic approach and his new found Calvinism. Unfortunately, he was uneasy with the lack of confidence (and control) and soon found himself again when he eventually came out of the closet in his new Calvinist clothes. The fragmentation of the church is intensely sad, we couldn’t even be trusted to organise ourselves into a unified body. Lord forgive us. Thankfully, He, The Lord God Almighty, Yeshua, The I AM, Elohim, El Shaddai, The One who brought His people out of captivity in Egypt has a plan! HE will unite the Body of Christ! I hope these comments will be useful in bringing someone into a closer relationship with their Heavenly Father. Read your Bible and He will commune with you through His word. Don’t worry too much about understanding, The Holy Spirit will take care of that. Just go in with the right attitude and a heart to know Him more. God bless and I hope to see you all one day. Maranatha. *By ‘church’ I mean those organised groups of people who identify as Christians and meet together, predominately on Sundays. I known this is not what church really is but the definition of church is nowadays to opaque **When talking about those people who have been saved by what Jesus did for us I prefer to use the phrase the ‘Body of Christ’.
Thank you for the comment! I was skeptical on this video as well. I remember reading Romans 8:29-30 of the elect. The way I see it to over simplify it all is God knew you before you were born and knows all you will go through in life and all your decisions. INCLUDING your decision in accepting Jesus Christ as your savior and walking with him.
Wow! Thank you for your post. I was blessed reading it and think God is speaking through you - the points made were clear, concise and spot on. All glory to Him of course, not to you or any of us. I believe the Lord has enabled you to express the thoughts I've been unable to.
It is interesting reading the comments for this sermon/video. When topics that touch the things we love the most, like children, are discussed it can bring about many deeply buried emotions and hurts. I can look back on my 54 years of life and see where God sowed His Gospel seeds in my life through people and events both minor and major. I can look back and see the Spirit watering those seeds through Godly people and pastors preaching the Love and forgiveness of our Heavenly Father. I look back and see the wounded hands of Jesus reaping the seeds of Love that were planted. Some of these things were because I chose to believe and sought a deeper relationship with God. I use the wording of my "free will" as that is how I grew up with a Wesleyan tradition. But I understand I could do nothing by myself and it was His Spirit that let me believe and understand. There was no chose I could make by myself that could have accomplished this. It is all through the Will of God. I have spent years worshiping in a Calvinist Church where the sovereignty of God was preached. As I have read the scriptures and became a Seeker of the Way, the Truth, and the Life I have let my roots dig deeper into the loving soil of God through the teachings of Jesus and the guidance of the Holy Spirit. There was no way for me to stay rooted except through His will. It is all God's work reflected through His people, His Elect, It has always been God's will at work. Looking at scripture we see that all men were created to have a relationship with God but through one man, Adam, we are now all sinners. Did Adam seek out God for forgiveness or was it God that sought out Adam? When every man was sinful and God saw only one man Noah was righteous. God still reached out a saving hand to save Noah. We see this over and over throughout the Old Testament where man's free will led many to sin. Over and over it was God reaching out with His love through righteous people to preach the Word to bring the people of God, the Elect, Was it free will or because they were chosen. That is a good question. Whether you come from an Armenian or Calvinist position, both preach the sovereignty of God and emphasize that we have a personal relationship with the Father through His Son. This relationship requires us to reflect His life through the Spirit. there is nothing I can do to bring my children into a saving faith. I as a father feel that I should be able to protect and save all my children. The hardest thing a parent can do is loose a child whether physically or spiritually. We cannot choose to be saved as being saved is something only God can do. As a Christian, either Calvinist or Armenian or any other, we can only choose to allow God to work through us both with our children and those we come in contact with. My greatest sorrow is seeing my son walking in the Darkness of this world. I use my "Free Will" to pray for him daily through thoughts and words. I have lost a son spiritually and I know that there is nothing I can do. I understand that my Hope is that the suffering of my heart will allow God to produce a Miracle. Why do we always seem to fight ourselves whether Calvin or Armenian was right. The Truth is that the Gospel of Jesus is Right and helps bring people into the Father's loving embrace. We both say the same truth. We say it in different ways but it should always be the Truth of the Gospel. If someone has a deeper faith because they think of themselves as the Elect. PRAISE GOD for that glorifies Him. If someone believes that they have the Free Will to choose. PRAISE GOD for that glorifies Him. Our job is not to fight among ourselves but to be His Reflection to the world so that it glorifies HIM. We are two sides of the same coin preaching the Gospel so that the Spirit can use us to sow, to water, and to reap for the Glory of God. AMEN.
Calvinism turns into "practical arminianism" (works-based salvation) when it comes to Perseverance of the Saints. I ask: God's promise or your perseverance? It is not both.
@@19bmasePart of God’s work in me IS to help me persevere! If He didn’t, I wouldn’t. HE keeps me. I’m not able to. And who God keeps, He does not lose. 🙌🙌 Praise God! 💕🙏💕
@@LeeB5 correct. Romans 5:1-5 mostly where through our faith in Jesus our suffering produces endurance and endurance produces character and character produces hope and hope will not put us to shame because God's love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit. Again it shows the sovereignty of God and we only need to be willing to abide in Him.
@@19bmase Why do we have the Bible. It is to let us know who God is and how we can have a relationship with Him. When i read the Bible I can see that it is a living document as the Spirit is there to help lead us into that relationship. Even if you look at how the bible is made of 66 books spanning thousands of years and written by multitude men guided by His Spirit. It is an over-arching journey from man's creation, fall, calling to holiness and eventually our reunion with our Heavenly Father. In these inspired Word of God He reveals who He is and that man was originally meant to have a personal relationship with Him and work His creation for His Glory. Everything between the Fall of Man to our entrance into the new heaven and earth is just showing us how we can return to the holiness we lost due to the Fall. How we work out our Faith may be seen as the traditions of man through the interpretations of Scripture. Paul calls us to be all things to all man so that through our acts of faith we can Glorify God. God is an awesome God and can take our weaknesses and suffering to produce Miracles. When our traditions, like Armenianism and Calvanism, take away the Glorification of God it sets a bad example to those we are called to preach the Gospel to. Throughout my learning going to church from both of those backgrounds and my personal journey with God through scripture and suffering (read Rom5-1-5) It really does not matter if we think of it as being Elect or Free Will. If that brings someone closer to God and waters the seeds planted by the Spirit the fruits that the Spirit will reap ultimately Glorify God. God does not need us, but He wants us to be willing to be used. I will give an example of an experience. I was in charge of one of the hydration stations for volunteers at Ground Zero in New York for most of November 2001. Most of the NYC volunteers would come to the station I was in charge of and I was able to build relationships with many firefighters digging through the rubble for survivors and any remains. Being there to listen to their stories and cry with them when anything was found bound us. Towards the end of my stay I was able to start sharing the Gospel with a NYFD Lieutenant. Coming from a Wesleyan tradition my approach was coming from a "free will" perspective. That day there happened to be some Lutheran seminary students and one of them started contradicting my approach to how I was "preaching" the Gospel. The Lieutenant proceeded to say, "Why don't you discuss this among yourselves and when you get an answer come talk to me." It was at this point I realized that when we fight among ourselves about the traditions of man's interpretations of the Gospel the only loser is us because we have taken away from Glorifying God in our words and deeds. My original post was in response to many comments debating who is right and who is wrong. It diminishes what God is trying to do through us. Listening to Voddie I came away with we should be preaching the Gospel for the Glorification of God. As long as we allow the Light of Jesus to be reflected through us. It does not matter if it is because of the assurance of the Elect or the free choice we make. It is always and forever God working through His Son and Spirit that brings people to a saving faith.
Why does it have to be God's will or man's will? Couldn't it just simply be that that both are involved? We chose God because He first drew us to Himself. But the Bible is clear that God draws all people to Himself. But our loving God doesn't force us. Those who do not resist that drawing and choose Him, become the elect. Since God knows all things from the beginning, He knew who would respond to His drawing and choose Him. In that sense, they are the elect and chosen of God.
Oh LORD, your ways are ALWAYS better than ours! I thank YOU that your knowledge and your will cannot be thwarted, especially by my ignorance & ineptitude❤
My faith goes to my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, his words and the promise of eternal salvation. I will not put my trust on someone who lived to tell things centuries after the author of my salvation.
If God is omniscient, then He knows everything , both the beginning and end. Although He wishes no one to perish and be separated from Him for eternity , being omniscient He knows who will accept the Holy Spirit’s I invitation to accept Jesus as Lord and gives everyone the chance for repentance. That’s where we as the church provide the opportunity of repentance by preaching the Gospel
When asked which is right, Calvinism or Armenian? I say if we look at scripture both are clearly discussed and outlined. My answer is both are true and this is just one of mysteries that we need to trust God with, much like the Trinity, which we cannot fully understand. So I am neither Calvinist or Armenian, those are man made titles. I am a believer of God’s Word. I with rest in God’s control and do what He asks, to share the Gospel. Just be still and know He is God. Great Sermon by Voodie. God bless you, yes you!
I really like how you put this! Having studied myself both perspectives, I lean Armenian but ultimately try and live without worry of losing my salvation but also not testing the "can never lose your salvation" hypothesis. Committing to living in relationship with God daily and trusting him for the times when I don't hit that mark.
The real question is: Who created these views? For 400 years of church history, leaders taught by the Apostles did not embrace doctrines like total depravity, double predestination, or the views of Augustine, a Manichean Gnostic. Augustine introduced the concept of original guilt, total depravity, and double predestination centuries after the Apostles, leading to a significant departure from earlier church teachings. So, when it comes to credibility, we must ask: Who holds more weight-Augustine's teachings, which appeared centuries later, or the consistent teaching of the early Church Fathers? It’s not possible for both Calvinism and Arminianism to be entirely true, because each perspective represents a fundamentally different view of God's plan for salvation. Either we are pre-programmed through predestination, or we are created with the freedom to choose. When reading the Old Testament, God's interactions with the Jews are clear: He expresses anger over their disobedience and calls them to repentance. If everything had been predetermined, it would make no sense for God to be upset with their actions. His call to repentance, urging them to turn and live, shows that they had the free will to respond. This is a direct contradiction to the idea that everything was already decreed. By the way these are not the only 2 views there are more, like Greek Orthodox, and Provisionist. In fact, Arminians have a problem by accepting Augustine's teaching of total depravity.
“For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people.” Titus 2:11 NIV The offer is to ALL people. God has foreknowledge of those who will take that offer. Whosoever believes in this offered salvation shall not perish but have eternal life.
Right, ALL people.... then there are Calvinists who will reply " then what good did it do them (the ones going to Hell), If Jesus died for them? They just want to be arguementive... the answer is simple- they simply rejected Jesus, they chose to go to Hell...
What is the difference? Could you say that by God knowing someone will not believe in him, yet allowing them to be born is fighting for the same cause? God knowing someone will believe in him is essentially the same argument just disguised in a more palatable way.
Is God obligated in such a way that He must (whether He wants to or not ) foreknow who will accept His offer of salvation? What if God wants for at least some of the future to be open to different possible outcomes and therefore not foreknown as certain? If God’s nature is such that He must foreknow everything as certain and He cannot experience changes in His knowledge and cannot change His mind or experience changes in His emotions that would cause Him to consider changing His mind then is God even capable of ever deciding anything? Many of us have been taught these cannot do’s about God. What if God wants election to be corporate style and not always at the individual level? What we believe about God’s foreknowledge not only impacts what we believe about man’s free will, it also impacts what we believe about God’s very own free will to freely make His own decisions. The thought of God being a finite, albeit all-knowing but still finite cosmic fate machine who faces the future knowing that He can only do only what He always knew that He would do and cannot avoid doing any of the things that He always knew that He would do does not make for a theology that exalts God’s greatness and infinity. From my perspective all forms of closed theism all arrive at the same destination of fatalism just like Calvinism. Not only are all of our actions and choices fated and set in stone, all of God’s choices and actions are fated and set in stone as well if any form of closed theism is true. Many will ask, “If God foreknows everything as certain then are our choices really freely made?” and so few will ask the much better question, “ If God foreknows as certain all of His own future actions and choices then are His choices really freely made by Him?
God does not condemn, He has determined before time He will save anyone who calls on Him. The whole scripture teaches that if we believe, it is the work of the Spirit. From my experience, God is trying to save us all.
What does the scripture say? Its not about our experience, thoughts or feelings, it's What the word of God says! There are things that God never intended for our little finite minds to know or understand. The clay does not tell the potter what to do!
I believe this is one of Gods mysteries that our one dimensional mind cant wrap around. All I know os God doesnt lie so when the bible speaks on predestination and free will...I have faith that both must be true...even if I dont fully understand how...it will be revealed on Gods time. In the meantime...keep preaching the Gospel ❤
I believe that Abba can do both, I have thought that for a while ever since I had a conversation with someone over predestination (i didn't even know this belief existed). I get tired (even with myself) of our logic over what God can do! He is Good and He is Just!
God knows who is going to repent and choose Jesus before we were born. I think somehow people forget that....or don't understand it. Blessings....for every Brother and Sister to yet come to the Lord!Amen.. Hallelujah
Amen....God is sovereign....we are looking through a pinhole, so we must do what His Word says, because we don't see what he sees. Sow the seed and continue to take every opportunity to sow the seed, because we don't know the way in which God will use us.
God is sovereign, but the with the definition of sovereign that Calvinist preachers proclaim. When they say sovereign they mean meticulously fatalistic determinism, a concept or found in the Bible.
@ everyone will have the opportunity to know Jesus,repent and be baptized not everyone will accept this, we all have our free agency, the key is getting to know our Savior, remember Isaiah 45:23 In this verse, God declares that every knee shall bow and every tongue shall swear allegiance to him
@@John-g8o3x NO... They chose Hell, They chose darkness because their deeds were evil, they refused to bow down to God, we do have free will. everything in our life we choose that requires a decision. Joshua said " CHOOSE THIS DAY WHO YOU WILL SERVE!!!!! IF YOU ARE RIGHT, then why did Jesus weep over the unrepentent jews in His day, if itwas Gods will that they just were not chosen to begin with? It just don't make any sense at all !!!!!
I lost my son at 30 yrs. Before I was changed myself. I didn't put forth a life I should've. I love him deeply, and ultimately leave it to God to save him.
James I just lost my 34yo son in 9/2024. He was saved. I believe I will see him again in Heaven after I fall on my knees and thank God first. All our tears will be wiped away. God bless you and I'll meet you there. Keep the faith.
Plant and water seeds of the gospel in the gardens of other parent’s estranged children. My neighbor is half my age and told me he’s estranged from his family. He doesn’t know that I too am estranged from my kids. I’ll be giving him a Christmas gift with some Bible verses in the card. This helps the estranged become Prodigals back to the Father in Jesus’ name. 🙏Acts 2:38 ✝️🕊🎁
What most people don't understand with God's Predestination is that He had already SEEN our end and knows EVERYTHING :-Isaiah 46:9-10 [9]Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, [10] DECLARING the END OF FROM the BEGINNING, and FROM ANCIENT TIMES the THINGS that ARE NOT YET DONE, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I WILL DO ALL MY PLEASURE " , hence He " FORE KNOWS" us as per Romans 8:29 "]For WHOM he did FORE KNOW, He ALSO did PREDESTINATE to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren." So, do we KNOW our end?... If we made it? Where we are with the Lord in this instant? Do we believe in Him,that He sent His Word, His ONLY BEGOTTEN Son Jesus Christ to die for us, Redeem us and ensure our Salvation through His PRECIOUS BLOOD? That by Repenting and letting us be Baptized in water FOR the Remission [ Forgiveness] of our sins and thereby RECEIVING God's GIFT of The HOLY SPIRIT? If we did this in obedience to His Will then we will go on to be SAVED! So Predestination is NOT God choosing BEFOREHAND who will be saved, but SAVING us through His Foreknowledge of our lives, from birth to death OR our status at the RAPTURE...Coming of the Lord Jesus - 1 Corinthians 15:51-52 [51]Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, [52]In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed". TRUST IN GOD. TRUST THE LORD JESUS. TRUST THE HOLY SPIRIT. TRUST AND BELIEVE GODS WORD, the HOLY BIBLE!!! GOD Bless and KEEP you!!!!
You are sooooo wrong. No body can save another individual you cannot save yourself only God can save you. Scripture teaches there will be no self-righteous enter the kingdom of God
@joannedaniels1446 there are many verses that states men are to repentance (action) and to believe (action). There are people who understand this. That is how tares, and false brethren arise, because all are commanded to obey the gospel. This is a very difficult principle, and depending on the instruction you have received, the amount of Bible study and natural talent God gives, even one who is not saved can have limited knowledge, so have you looked carefully in the Bible to harmonize all the references containing the action of believing. It most certainly is an action. That's why there is unbelief. It's the opposite and a resistance (action) would you say unbelief is not a work? If so, that's very interesting and I'd like to hear more
Lord I pray for my 3 Children Roxanne Kaylee and Jordan that they will know You in a True Way and that Lord you will show them Your Salvation in The Name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth
Dear Lord Bless Roxanne,Kaylee and Jordan to know You. Restore their Soul Lord Jesus from darkness to light, from dead to alive. In Jesus name we pray amen.
No matter how passionate one preaches, or what soundtrack is put to the preaching, it doesn't change the error of Calvinism. No matter how one spins it, the answer to the question about their children is no matter if a parent preaches the Gospel or not, God has already decided the child's eternity. That is not a God of love. That is a pagan god of stone. It's the result of interpreting the scriptures through the lens of the pagan Greek philosophy of Plato who inspired Augustine who inspired John Calvin.
@everinnajin that's a very good verse! Unfortunately many do not apply that verse in the light of the gospel, amd wave it proudly without using it faithfully. How readest thou? As Christ says. Anyone who believes. Yes! Well, who really believes the gospel. Can a baby do it, can a deaf dumb blind man believe? Your foundation hangs on one verse, and God wrote a large book containing mysterious truths and sadly, you've pulled the most popular verse (the broad way).the narrow way., Christ says, few there be that find it. And even that verse seems to imply that you have to 'find' truth, that is impossible for men. But possible with God. So belief is a work, finding is a work, and your understanding is at the bare minimum and I'm sure your grabbing hold to it instead of searching God's entire message. May God give eyes of understanding to whom He choses to give it. But that verse is for the lazy surface Bible person
@@streetguru6240you come off as pretty arrogant seeing as that Bible verse is pretty powerful. You didn’t say anything to refute his argument, you just demonstrated yourself as haughty.
What most people don't realize is that calvinism is not Christianity. It is a different gospel and a different religion. There is no difference between what John Calvin, Joseph Smith, and Charles Taze Russell did. All are different gospels. None of the false teachings of calvinism (gnosticism) were accepted by the early church. Calvinism, which is simply gnosticism, was vehemently fought against for nearly 500 years. 1 John is a refutation of it. Finally, Augustine was able to deceive the church and infiltrate his gnostic beliefs into it. Calvin, who could not comprehend the true gospel of God's Word because of the extreme mental and physical abuse he suffered at the hands of priests ( documented by Erasmus) turned to the gnostic beliefs of Augustine. Here was a god Calvin could relate to. Cold, distant, a creater of mindless puppets.
I am currently struggling with reconciling this on both sides of the argument. I don't know where I stand after hearing arguments on both sides from reputable scholars. What I come away with is that Salvation comes from God alone we are incapable of being right before Him without Him. He has commanded us to preach the gospel and so we should. As I work through this the one thing I can say for certain is either way I will not know whether or not the person I share the gospel will be saved or not, so I preach either way. I plant seeds, I water some, and God will take care of the rest. This is a difficult topic.
@@tellitome369Are you denying God's truth about salvation? Definitely you don't believe in Jesus Christ, u have made your decision and u re comfortable to the idea of going to hell. Okay, but don't be telling lies. Whoever is saved will go to heaven by the faith in Jesus Christ. Are you saying nobody is saved then????? Who are you to change God's word? Abraham is on heaven by the faith and many other saints from the old testament. Today also the same thing, that's why Jesus came to earth. You should read the bible instead of spreading lies on the internet.
@@tellitome369Are you denying God's truth about salvation? You are calling God a liar. Definitely you don't believe in Jesus Christ, u have made your decision and u re comfortable to the idea of going to hell. Okay, but don't be telling lies. Whoever is saved will go to heaven by the faith in Jesus Christ. Are you saying nobody is saved then????? Who are you to change God's word? Abraham is on heaven, becoz he was saved by the faith on Jesus Christ. This is written on John. And still remains today, that's why Jesus Christ came to earth. You have to faith on Jesus Christ your savoir, he came to earth. Repent of your sins in the name of Jesus, so God will purify you, and be saved of your sins. Start reading the bible instead of spreading lies on the internet.
John 3:16 "God so loved the world that He gave His only Beggon Son that whosoever believes in Him should not perrish, but have everlasting life." Well spoken by our Savior, Jesus Christ.
God's love is universal in the sense that He shows common grace to all people (Matthew 5:45) and offers salvation indiscriminately through the preaching of the gospel. However, the phrase "world" here is understood to mean people from every nation and not merely the Jews. The focus is on the scope of God's redemptive plan, which includes Gentiles as well as Jews, rather than every individual
God's love is universal in the sense that He shows common grace to all people (Matthew 5:45) and offers salvation indiscriminately through the preaching of the gospel. However, the phrase "world" here is understood to mean people from every nation and not merely the Jews. The focus is on the scope of God's redemptive plan, which includes Gentiles as well as Jews, rather than every individual
it is the means through which the elect are called to salvation (Romans 10:14-17). While Christ's atonement is particular, the gospel is offered indiscriminately, and God ensures that the elect will respond in faith.
It is God’s will that all be saved, but in order for us to be saved we have to meet His requirements. God loves us all, but not all love Him back. He is not forceful, He is a free will God. He teaches and shows you how to receive salvation, you choose. We will be saved if we acknowledge Christ, by believing, turning from our old ways and constantly remaining in Jesus Christ by living like Him
@@arielson90 that is an extremely uncharitable statement about your brothers and sisters in Christ. Neither side (generally) "twists" Scripture - they interpret it differently.
Calvinism presents troubling ideas-are my kids not elect? And if not, is that simply "not my department"? The portrayal of God in Calvinism often less loving than the Apostle Paul, who, in Romans 9 and 10, expressed a willingness to be accursed if it meant his fellow Israelites could be saved. Paul’s deep compassion contrasts sharply with the Calvinistic view. Furthermore, Calvinists frequently rely on quotes from men rather than Scripture, and worldly illustrations, like movies, to defend their theology. This approach reveals a consistent disconnect between Calvinism and biblical context. Predestination in the Bible is about the redemption of the Body, not individual salvation. Unfortunately, Calvinism and proper biblical context rarely go hand in hand.
But according to this sermon, that plan might be for them to go to hell. They might have been born with a losing lottery ticket. But you aren't to worry about it because "that's not your department." Such a horrible heresy.
@@johngregory4801 Hold on there lit'le buddy Genesis 15:6 And he believed in the Lord; and he ((counted)) it to him for righteousness. At that point Abram was not cleansed and made righteous before God. He was ((looking yet toward the cross of Christ)) No different than anyone on earth today. Abraham would need more than the blood of bulls and goats. Gal 2:19-21 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
One must share the good news because Salvation is a choice. As much as I am chosen, I too must choose Jesus. It’s the Great Commission commanded by Jesus which must be obeyed.
I have heard other sermons by Voddie Baucham, and I normally love his preaching. I consider him to be an intelligent man, but I did not follow the logic in this sermon. I certainly believe in the Sovereignty of God, and no one is saved outside of His will. But I can't believe in the idea that salvation is outside of our own will, that we have no say in the matter. That seems contradictory to who God is, and the rest of scripture. How could you consider God as just and loving, if He creates a being without his/her permission, then sends him/her to hell without giving them a chance at salvation?
Lord, continue to give opportunities to understand your grace to those who believe this is the good news. Continue to offer them the good news that is even better than this. It isn't you who limits the number of people who will turn and be saved. You are a good father who would not give us nature's that could not accept the good news.
@@ronalehman No not all of them. fact is some were blinded alright so the Greek gentile that's you and me could be saved. He'll double back for some more later.
@@arielson90 Re: Who were elected in the parable of the wedding? Think on this. What in the world qualified them to be chosen "elected" in the first place?
Thankful I didnt grow up in a predestination church. That teaching makes God out to be the evil many believe Him to be. Bible says in too many places He wants none to perish. And I would never have had children. God having sovereignty to do something , doesnt mean He did that. Jesus died on the cross for all. For knowledge is not the same as creating people so they have no chance at salvation.
And YET CHOSE few to be saved! I was born again and wanted family etc and be in church saved. this is not everyone fault. I am praying to be back as I was not listening to PEOPLE. ITS BAD
I am not a Calvinist for this reason. It collids too much with John 3:16 and other passages. God knows what is to love a son- would he give us sons who could NOT possibly be saved?
Predestination is based on the FOREKNOWLEDGE of God...Romans 8:29. God ordained those to be saved whom He foreknew would CHOOSE the gospel. Man has the responsibility to respond to the gospel.
It's amazing that such well read teachers don't even know the God of the bible. Something they have studied for years and are still blind to the truth.
@@nicolaslosito5735 I've spent my whole life studying this. You literally are just spewing out John Calvin false doctrine. The apostles never taught this!!
Sadly the calvinists are so blinded that they cannot see how contradictory this is. By your definition God is the cause of evil and men can never be held responsible for not being saved. God himself rejects them and then punishes them. Now that is the very definition of injustice.
The funny thing Calvinism is the opposite of all these comments. Gives all the glory to the Lord and none to you unlike inviting Jesus Christ in your heart . How many people have done that a million times and are still goats.
@@Nate-tk1vs God did not create automatons. He gives us the right to choose. The deterministic world of calvinism is one of misguided doctrine that makes God the origin of evil.
@@abrahamgideon God word is precise in all he says. Isaiah 45:6-7 says the lord creates evil. Also Calvin was not a Calvinist he believed Paul’s writings on predestination which is God work of sanctification in a believers life to conform you to be like Christ that takes the remaining of your life. Paul said he did not know how to do that. He also said through much tribulation do you enter the kingdom of God. Act 14:22
I find regardless of the complexity of how God does this, our jobs are still the same- our experience is that of free will. If it is ultimately determined, we still do the best we can for the Lord. ❤
The “how’s” of God’s marriage of predestination and man’s will is beyond us to comprehend, and the “job” is indeed the same whatever one’s perspective. But there is a huge difference between our acknowledging that He made choices in eternity past as regards salvation, and our denying that He did so. It is a really bad idea to tell God He didn’t do something He has told us He did. All who genuinely repent, ask, seek and knock are forgiven, receive, find, and enter (Mt 7). All those who do that were chosen by God according to His will and purpose. As Voddie points out, if in doubt, Just Do It so we show we were indeed chosen before the foundation of the world, as Scripture tells us. But to deny Him is to seek His denial of us.
Predestination is not in the Bible. Not playing semantics, but there is a difference. Every person Jesus brings into this world is predestined and called to salvation and to be restored back to God, that’s the part of being created in “their image” that Jesus wants to come back to them. That’s the Holy Spirit component that is always and has always done the calling. I will always agree with Calvinist on the fact that God calls us. But the carnal “evil” side of us does not want to go back to God. So, there is the free will, or “our part” that Bodie says we don’t have. This is why scripture says “if” so often, is because we do have a say, or decision. “ Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him”. Jesus cannot create people to be lost, it is contrary to Gods character. “God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. ” 1 John 1:5
Romans 8:29-30 "For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers" Ephesians 1:5 "He predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will" First Peter 2:8 "Those who stumble because they disobey the word, as they were destined to do" Romans 9:22 "Vessels of wrath prepared for destruction" Proverbs 16:4 "The Lord has made everything for its purpose, even the wicked for the day of trouble" Jeremiah 1:5 God sets men apart to be his prophets and apostles long before they were ever born Galatians 1:15-16 God sets men apart to be his prophets and apostles long before they were ever born John 6:37, 44; John 10:29; John 17:2, 6 Jesus alludes to keeping, teaching, and protecting those whom the Father has given to him The Bible also teaches that people are accountable for their choices. God's desire is that all would be saved and come to repentance. He offers salvation to everyone, but not everyone will be saved.
God chose the nation of Israel out of all the other nations, and no one ever says that God was not being fair. If God chooses to show some mercy and others justice, that is His choice. He does not violate our free will. Rather, He works with it. We have the free will to do whatever we want. Because we have a sinful nature, many times we want to sin, so we choose of our own free will to follow that nature. When God regenerates us, He gives us a new nature that wants to serve Him, so we freely choose to do exactly what He has already chosen for us to do. Basically we are at the mercy of our inclinations. If someone is addicted to drugs, don't they have free will? Can't they stop using any time they want to? We all know that it's not that simple. They will always do what they want to do, and if they want to get high that is what they will do every single time. That's the truth about human free will.
Calvinism's only reason to share the gospel is camouflage. They must act like they need to share because they need to hide under the Christian label. They're a parasite that needs a host
I have to say: "At this point the only predestination i believe in is that God will do what He wants and knows a way to save all men... I do not care about all kinds of fancy "theology" or paper written by men (that state you are learned, AKA follow there ways). I do care about what God wants. And He has said that He desires that no men would be lost. Then i ask you: Is anything impossible for our God? I'm even gonna repeat myself, is anything impossible for the God of gods and King over all the kingdoms??? I thought so!!!" All praise to the one who knows all things, makes all things possible and is the writer of everything that happens !!!! 🕊️❤️😇 Yeshua hamashiach (Jesus Christ)!!!! 🕊️❤️😇 He is the prince of peace and the King of kings!!! 🕊️❤️😇 He is LORD!!!! 🕊️❤️😇
A loving God is a just God who will be no means acquit the wicked. The words wicked and guilty are not synonymous, the wicked are all those who die without the blood of the Lamb, you and I are guilty of sin, but those who die covered by His righteousness will be pardoned for sin and transgression. It could not be any other way, for if He did not reward the wicked for their sins, then He would be an unjust and unloving God.
Do we even remember that the older son keeps himself from the party... It could be that is the thing that makes the diffrence??? Yeshua Hamashiach (Jesus Christ) did come and receive all kind of SINNERS!!! 🕊❤ 😇 The religious hypocrites and people that keep themself away are those that keep themselfs outside of the party... We are those called to lead the party. So go and receive the hungry, the naked, the widows, the prisoners, etc.. And lead the party!!! 🕊❤ 😇 For Yeshua had said that He will judge no sin anymore. He judges if you have taken care of those in need just as if you are taking care of Yeshua Himself!!! 🕊❤ 😇
Jesus judges no man while they live on this earth. But it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment. Hebrews 9:27. Who is it that judges? For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son. To Christ is committed the highest prerogative, that of judging, as He is the manifestation of the Father in creation, so is He the manifestation of the Father in giving and executing the law. Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for Him shall He appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel! 😔 It's not dependent upon us, but the one who doesn't fail. The gospel IS the power of God and salvation to those who are saved. Thank you Jesus.
Run from doctrines of men (Calvinism). Run from Baucham. That's all I can say. I would encourage you to read the Bible without having it filtered through Calvinists like Baucham, Washer, MacArthur, etc.
@@jewel777Yet We have plenty of pastors called Apostles and Bishops remarried and in adultery and THEY STILL PREACHING. I am not going to sit by I am Praying the HOLY GHOST THROW US OUT I don’t even Understand what i was thinking Tv and Mot listening to GOD.
The Lord has declared the ending from the beginning. EPHESIANS 1:4-5 For He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world to be blameless and holy before Him. In love He predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with His pleasure and will
@Esuras98 it's the Word of God neighbor, not the word of Lawson. Plus, Voddie just preached the same thing. Predestination is all over the Bible from Genesis to Revelation. If men had a hand in their salvation, then we would have something to boast about. But , the scriptures say that God has done it so that no man may boast. It is all for His glory, not our glory. His power is on display. We were dead in our trespasses the Word says. Have you ever seen a dead man do anything but remain still and silent? Why do you think Jesus says no one can come to Him unless drawn by the Father and no one can go to the Father but through Him, therefore no one can receive the Spirit without the Father and the Son. The verdict? No one comes to God without God! Love, peace and Shalom in Jesus name.
@willisprice7130 acknowledging tht u need Jesus n freely responding to His appeals toward us is not a work nor does it rob God of any glory. Calvinists get scripture so twisted on this stuff.
@graybillythekid Well, Voddie Baucham is not a Calvinists friend, nor did I mention works. As a matter of fact, God's sovereign election is a display of love, mercy and grace upon His people. In the biblical sense, the word grace means favor. If we performed any work to enter into the kingdom of God, then we would be receiving what we are owed, it would no longer be the favor of God. But, the Lord owes no one. EPHESIANS 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
If I have no option to reject God, I have no opportunity to love God. Love cannot be forced however, love must be a choice or there is no love. I am not a robot, robots are not told to have faith, nor are they rewarded for doing well. I cannot be held responsiblie for miss deeds, nor can I be rewarded for good deeds or actions. If I had no choice whether I acepted Christ, Then get off my back for not being what you want me to be, complain to God. No choice, only the elect, does sound like the person must be special. Then, God not only knew who was going to hell, He chose them, and created them for eternal punishment. Why? It wasnt their fault.
Voddie would be eaten alive in a debate on his flawed theology. He starts by saying God has determined all who will be saved and those who are is 100% on God, yet then goes on to say to parents “preach the gospel”, thereby putting the salvation of souls in our hands, because, if we decide not to preach the gospel, would there be one less soul saved that God decreed to be saved or did He decree us to not preach the gospel? Which is it.
People tend to forget that God is all knowing and is not limited by time. He knew us before we were born! He knew everything that we would do in life! That is what fore knowledge is! Yes we have to call on the name of God! No we can't save our self and it is God. The problem with teaching presentation is everyone forgets that God is all knowing. Why do we bother because we are commanded too!
"teaching presentation"? I think you mean predestination. If so, the word predestined is in the scripture over and over. That is why Godly men teach it.
@thecrew777 I know it is along with the elect. My point is God already knows every single thing we will do in our life long before we are conceived! That means he knows our destiny aka we are pre destined. It doesn't mean we are special and/or God chose us. It just means God is all knowing and nothing else!
There is one particular detail that calvinists always seem to skip over. That is, as it relates to Romans 8:29-30 ("For who he did foreknow, he did predestinate.... Moreover, whom he did predestinate, them he also called, justified and glorified.") Of whom is Paul referring? Who are they who God has predestined, etc to be saved by the gospel? Calvinista, are you ready dor the answer? Here it is: All of Adams race. We are all predestinated to recieve the offer of salvation through Christ Jesus. The problem is, though, that many of Adams race reject Gods offer. After the fall, God made a covenant with Adam and Eve that he was going to redeem them, by sending a saviour through the seed of the woman. And by the seed of the woman, Christ, just as God predestined, came and brought salvation to Adams race. But many of Adams race have and still do refuse to accept Christs offer, subjecting themselves to a Christless eternity in Hell. Man has a due part to play in recieving his salvation. No to do anything to earn or merit salvation. But he needs to acknolwedge what Christ has done, and not refuse it but take hold of it; put his confidence in what Christ had done to redeem man from the curse of sin. Man is predestined to be saved, not predestined that he is saved. The "is" or "is not" part is determined by man by how he responds to the "be saved" part. So, what are you going to do, oh calvinist? Are you going to keep on sitting back in ignorance, telling yourself over and over, that you dont need to do anything about the gospel, because you think you are exempt from not being saved? Or are you going to see what Christ did to pay for your sins and to lay salvation before you, and realise that you now have been given the responsibility to have to decide for youself whether you will choose to trust in what Christ did, or reject him. To simply stand back in ignorance to that responsibility, has the same outcome as rejecting what Christ did - it will be as though God never offered it to you in the first place. Son/Daughter of Adam, you have a choice to make, so choose wisely. Where you spend eternity depends on it
If man is sovereign with with salvation than God is no longer sovereign! To fore know means more than to be aware, it means to fore love!! Remember Ephesians 1:4 God chose the elect before creation! Mankind is spiritually dead, Ephesians 2.
John 1: 6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. 8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. This is why God sends his elect, that all people through them might believe, in the light.
Is Gods saving grace available to all or just some? It’s interesting we’re taught about love and how it works but is completely the opposite when we’re talking about Our relationship to Him. I can’t force my wife to love me and God “forcing” me to love him is that love?
What is the point of tilling the soil, watering and exposing the seed to the Light if your child has no free will? Preaching the gospel would be useless if they were predestined to hell. It just would’ve matter. You preach because faith comes from hearing. That they will have the opportunity to believe.
Yes. And why do Calvinists insist on baptizing all babies, if most are damned reprobates. Makes the parents "feel good' and keep coming and paying tithes?
I will pray for the children God has put in my care. I will trust him in his decision. He’s God. I’m not. Like pardons given to criminals but not to all criminals. To say that any of you(commentators) have a choice in the work of the LORD is paramount to blasphemy. Great lesson.
The fact that Voddie doesn’t understand this self-contradiction is amazing. If God is sovereign and He elects 1/2 of your kids- then nothing you do or don’t do will effect the outcome. If you fail- He will simply use something else- after all God is sovereign. What if your efforts increase wrath for your pre-destined unbelieving child? What if you’re fighting God’s will by trying to “rescue” your child from His eternal, pre-ordained wrath? Fortunately, Voddie’s awkward theology has always been the minority view bc your Heavenly Father truly does love all your children and wants them all to turn to Him and be saved- despite Voddies poor and incoherent theology ❤
God wants this but this is not reality. The flood, one family left. Sodom & Gomorrah, half of the family. God told us over and over again, "a remnant " it's a hard truth but it is the truth. God says you're either hot or you're getting spit out.
You're arrogant to think such a thing. Calvin read the Scriptures and said exactly what the texts say. You speak as someone who has no understanding of Calvin.
@tangoseal1 I've studied Calvin for some time now. I have listened to hours of debates. I stand firmly with @maryhirst9127. The logic falls apart without us having the free will to choose. I am afraid you are the one that does not know Calvin. I would suggest you check out Mike winger or Leighton flowers to learn more on this.
GODS CHILDREN ARE PURE......THEY ARE CAUGHT IN A SIMULATION OF WHAT THEY SEE AND LEARN.. THEY OWN THIS. WORLD BUT ARE CAUGHT IN THE SIMULATION OF THE TEACHING OF THIS WORLD THROUGH THEIR EYES AND TOUCH.
Scripture clearly teaches that those who believe in Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior are not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. Clearly, unbelief in Jesus Christ is what condemns the person to hell, not because the person was not elect. Nowhere does the Scripture states that Jesus Christ died for the elect, but there are many Scriptures that says Jesus Christ died for the sins of all humanity and as Scripture says in John 3:18. He that believes in Him is not condemned, but he who does not believe in Jesus Christ is condemned already because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. It doesn't say he who is elect will not be condemned, and it doesn't say he who doesn't believe is condemned because he is not elect.
Ecclesiastes 11:1-6 Cast your bread on the surface of the waters, for you will find it after many days. Divide your portion to seven, or even to eight, for you do not know what misfortune may occur on the earth. If the clouds are full, they pour out rain upon the earth; and whether a tree falls toward the south or toward the north, wherever the tree falls, there it lies. He who watches the wind will not sow and he who looks at the clouds will not reap. Just as you do not know the path of the wind and how bones are formed in the womb of the pregnant woman, so you do not know the activity of God who makes all things. Sow your seed in the morning and do not be idle in the evening, for you do not know whether morning or evening sowing will succeed, or whether both of them alike will be good.
Please people spend more time in prayer and reading the Word of God.God ,the author of His own words is the best source of understanding what He meant or planned for us . Let us not dwell in this divisiveness anymore about who is wrong or right.God is never wrong.The Church is very much divided at the moment.God bless everyone.
Amen.
Calvinistic messages like this bring confusion and divisions.
Faith comes from hearing. There are church which is a wolf den. We are at war we need the truth so that your faith is not shaken
So true, i agree. God Bless everyone here! Much love to you all. ✝️🙏
I am a Baptist pastor who does not hold the belief of Calvinism but I have pastor friends who do. We have never let our differences come between our fellowship or our unity in winning people to Christ!
@@SirOlgaC4but not everyone HEARS or comes to FAITH
God is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. 2 Peter 3:9
the any and the all here are the believers brought to Christ by God given faith... Peter is speaking to the brethren, as chapter one points out
@@bluefishbeagle1 You are just parroting what you learned from your Calvinists heroes, my friend.
@@bluefishbeagle1
When Peter says any should perish it means some will reject repentance.
@@AM-6030 Oh, and how do you know what he was thinking when he wrote his comment? And why are you seemingly trying to create a division among the Saints?
"Now I plead with you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
"For it has been declared to me concerning you, my brethren, by those of Chloe’s household, that there are contentions among you. Now I say this, that each of you says, “I am of Paul,” or “I am of Apollos,” or “I am of Cephas,” or “I am of Christ.”
Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?
I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, lest anyone should say that I had baptized in my own name. Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas. Besides, I do not know whether I baptized any other.
For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of no effect."
@@rocketscientisttoo I'm not trying to cause division. I'm seeing the Calvinist influence on his comment and calling him out for it. If I'm wrong, he can correct me, and I can apologize.
"But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name" John 1:12
Finish the verse ....
@@HannahColyer “…who were born, not of blood, NOR OF THE WILL OF THE FLESH NOR OF THE WILL OF MAN…..BUT OF GOD!!
Don’t cherry pick verses. Don’t rip verses out of their contexts. Just because you do not agree with a verse doesn’t mean you can twist it to your own understanding.
Romans 9:11 “though they were NOT YET BORN and had done nothing either good or bad-IN ORDER that God’s PURPOSE OF ELECTION might continue, NOT because of works BUT because of Him who CALLS.”
@@snakeeaterapc142 Who's cherry-picking? Begin with the simple/straightforward, and use those to inform the murky.
2 Peter 3:9 is as clear as it gets, both in and out of context: "The Lord does not delay His promise, as some understand delay, but is patient with you, not wanting ANY to perish but ALL to come to repentance."
Once I really FACED this passage, and didn't discard it and several others that flew in the face of TULIP....I abandoned Calvinism in favor of God's Word itself.
@@snakeeaterapc142 no no no no no. the predicating action is when people "recognize" christ. The effect is being born of god. You've reversed the order and sloppily justified calvinism. All of calvinism is sloppy.
@@1bbbbbaaaaa Bingo! Scripture is inspired, not confessions. The Calvinist begins with confessions and then superimposes them onto Scripture.
At 60 I see gods hand in my life all the way back to my childhood. I didn’t see it then but it’s all playing back to me now as my faith is growing in Christ. It’s like seeing god saved me from myself so many times because I should be dead but now I’m more alive than ever. I am forever grateful for gods mercy in my life for I deserve to die but now I’m saved by grace and Christ . A debt I can never repay
Same
❤AMEN 😊
Amen, brother Simpson!! At 83 it all finally makes sense. Shalom.
I'm 71 now. When I was 7 years old, I heard the gospel from an evangelist who went around in his station wagon pulling a trailer like thing that held a tent on it to put up in a town. I thought the grown ups that brought me to this meeting all believed in the gospel. I thought it was grown up stuff that they thought was my time to hear. It only takes 15 minutes to tell Paul's gospel. I heard it and believed it right away. It was good news to me too. I told my mom and the others sitting next to me that I do believe in that salvation that would save me from hell and give me eternal life to heaven. Turned out my mom and the grown ups with her didn't believe when they heard! They were not mad at me or anyone. They just said, "Do you really believe what that man said?" I said, "yes, but I don't get why you all don't." The preaching of that gospel sounds like foolishness to those who are perishing. I didn't know any of that for years and years later. I was not around any Christian people until I left home. Why me and not them? I don't know. I also understood that God saved me from me just like you noticed.
@@orangeandslinky god sees the heart when he laid that seed in you as a child . He knew it would take root and grow . God bless you and have a good day
God being Omniscient knows who will accept His gospel and who won't, but is willing all not to perish
Romans 9,16; John 15,16...
Amen! Like parallel tracks on a railway, predestination and freewill are both true, a paradox. He already knows who will choose, but He also gives us freewill to choose
It's not what he knows,,, it's whom he knows, he knows them because he birthed the before the foundation of the world before they did any evil or good according to his will and purpose. Why does God only save part of mankind, the real question is why he saves any since all are rebels and sinful as the next. It does this for his own glory.. and that of His only begotten son.
Free will is such a mind boggling concept. If we have the ultimate free will then we are like god, aren't we? can we, of ourselves, choose God rather than ourselves? What does the Bible say? In Ephesians 2:8-9 we read "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast." Ephesians 2:8-9 NKJV
The ESV might make it a little clearer "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast."
Both translations say that the faith that saves us is not our own faith but a faith that God gives to us.
@@bluefishbeagle1correct. Also he does that because of his infinity mercy and love
Acts 16:31
31 They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved-you and your household.”
Don’t be simple minded
@@chazayah5985 your problem is with the Holy Writ then.
@@myname-ns1rp how come some of Jesus biological brother wasn’t save . John 7:5: "For even his own brothers did not believe in him". That’s why I say don’t be simple minded. It up to God not us who choose to do the saving
@@myname-ns1rp John 7:5: "For even his own brothers did not believe in him".
@@chazayah5985 By their own freewill
2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.
Who is 2Peter written to?
@@GaryGilmore-w3ito saved repented saints.
@@arielson90 "God is not willing that ANY should perish..." He is talking in the above scripture to scoffers who say the Lord will not return because He didn't show up when they thought He would. It is to give as many people as possible the opportunity to repent and be saved.
@@GaryGilmore-w3i Who is it written FOR, rather? Everyone. And the meaning is simple....don't let your Calvinist lenses fool you.
When i was studying this out before we left the Calvanist church we were attending, I was in prayer one morning, weeping for our wayward son. Suddenly, this thought came into my mind, "He's probably just not one of the elect." Instantly, I knew without a doubt that we were dealing with false doctrine. Satan wanted me to stop praying for him! To give up! I knew why we had to teach our children the gospel, but why would we pray for them? Why would God command us to pray for them, have us weep over them, if from before birth they were hopelessly condemned??? The more i studied, the more i found the clear evidence from the beginning to the end of scripture of the desire of God for ALL men to be saved! "Why will ye die?" Jesus Himself pleaded with men! Why would He do that if He already chose who was saved and who was condemned? It's borderline heretical!
It's not borderline heritical, it's a doctrine of the devil. It's sickening. For God so loved... the WORLD..
It’s not borderline! It is!!!
💯💯💯
Jesus is... The Elect... and we are... In Him.
It is not a case of Him "choosing" who is saved. It is a case of Him *knowing* who will be saved because HE IS ALL KNOWING. He knows the ones who will reject Him and He knows the ones who will accept Him, He doesn't hand pick them He just knows the ones who are His which is why Jesus said:
*John 6:37-40*
All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.
38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.
39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.
40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”
"God is not willing that ANY should perish, but that ALL should come to everlasting life" Predestination is NOT referring to salvation, but rather the transformation of those who are being saved. We are predestined to be TRANSFORMED INTO THE IMAGE OF CHRIST. God desires this for ALL of us, but gives us the choice to accept or not, this precious gift of salvation.
@@Freyja-f7m Amen!
It never ceases to amaze me that there are so many who profess faith in Christ, yet recoil at the notion of a Sovereign God who chooses to act according to the counsel of His own will…
It's not God's will that any should perish. Are you saying everyone goes to heaven? Calvinists read into something that's not there.
@ if you’re talking to me, the answer is a resounding NO! Scripture is clear that not ALL are saved…the second part of your comment is a non sequitur…
@@andrewbrowne5557 also sovereign does not mean what they say it does.
@ who are ‘they’ and by what standard are you able to authoritatively define what Sovereign means or doesn’t mean? Without consulting a thesaurus, sovereign means ‘in control, either declaratively or permissively, of EVERYTHING’…
Choose this day, who you shall serve.
Which is it?
Service is for believers for rewards in heaven. First Corinthians 3:11-15. Romans 4:5. But to him that worketh not, but BELIEVETH on Him who JUSTIFIETH the UNGODLY, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Romans 4:2-3. Just as Abraham was justified by faith 430 years before Moses gave the law. For if Abraham were justified by works, he would have something to glory/boast in, but not before God. Romans 3:26-28.
So beautifully said.
Thank you Jesus for your faithfulness. As long as a person has breath in their lungs they have a chance to repent and cry out to Jesus for forgiveness, conversion and salvation through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit 🙏
Most of the time. I believe all have the option to accept or reject Christ.)
However, there are last words and famous quotes of many that voiced they’ve waited too late! Some even shrieked of demons waiting to usher them into Hell. So it’s not wise for anyone to believe they could wait until their last nanosecond to repent. Usually by then, the conscience is so seared, they can’t muster the change of mind. (Repentance.) Some may even appear to but just won’t a Savior from Hell, not sin!
So if anyone reading this is not yet born-again, do not put it off. Allow the commandments to bust you unto Godly sorrow, turn away from reserving the freedom (of bondage…funny how that works, huh?) to sin and turn to Christ in trust. Blessings.
I believe God already knows everyone who is going to be saved he knows their heart better than we know our own and he knows who will keep the faith and be for him when he comes back he knows everything. I would never underestimate the knowledge of God when he made everything that was made including us. God bless
AMEN........THIS IS TRUTH👑🙋🏾👑
Did you not just listen to that sermon and you didn't hear what he said?? Because your comment completely contradicts what he said. We don't keep the faith. Our salvation has nothing to do with what we do and is all from the power of God, for His glory! If we have faith it is through the grace of God that we have received it. It is not from us so that no man can boast.
Actually, God knows who has been sealed upon being born again. When we are sealed by the Holy Spirit, we are also adopted by God to be his children. We are His forever kids! We are automatically the elect! So, yes, even children old enough to understand the Gospel are members of the elect!
@@brandonjcollins1062 But Paul said; '.... I have kept the faith,'.
@@pilgrimwings1295and you wouldn't have faith if it weren't granted by God first. That's how it works. Not that you first believed and God foresaw it...
This preaching never fails to minister to me. I too have been concerned about my son. He was raised up in the church although I must admit I didn’t do as good a job as I should have. He is married to a young woman who doesn’t want Jesus mentioned in the house (I was widowed in 2021) . She doesn’t say anything about saying grace at supper. But this message has been so encouraging. I long for them and my grandchildren to come to the Lord.
Will be praying for your family as she will have to answer for not allowing God to be spoken of. I pray she repents .
Well if you're Calvinist you might be longing for them to do something against God's will. Thank God Jesus is not Calvinist. He loves your son and daughter in law. Keep praying that The Holy Spirit will convict them of their sins and draw them to Jesus.
@@GeeRoddamén!!!
Sadly, there are those within the church who, though they profess faith with their mouths and claim to believe in their hearts, show no evidence of godly sorrow that leads to true repentance, as described in Scripture. They have not turned away from sin and continue to walk in willful disobedience, deceiving themselves into thinking they are saved. The Word of God makes it clear that genuine faith is accompanied by a transformed life, bearing fruit in keeping with repentance (2 Corinthians 7:10; Matthew 3:8; James 2:17).
What's the minimum level of good fruit to be saved?
‘Raise up a child in the way he should go, and when he is grown, he will not depart from it.’ -God
Are all calvinist children elect?
@@tonywaber8482this is also true not all of them do teach their children so not all there kids are elect
@@tonywaber8482 Calvinists don't know. That's the issue. It's a chance, just like spinning the wheel on Wheel of Fortune. You won't know until you land in one or the other.
@@tonywaber8482 No, not according to John Calvin. But the bible says that all who trust in Christ for salvation are the elect in Christ. God promises to keep them.
@@tonywaber8482
Are all children of Arminians saved?
At the time of my salvation I had an experience of Jesus raised from the dead. This was very instrumental in my salvation. I also heard the Lord say to me; 'If you do not accept me as Lord and Saviour you will go to hell.' This was also instrumental in my salvation. Jesus wasn't just playing with words, words that were just window dressing. The choice was real. It was my decision and Jesus made that plain to me. I said yes to Jesus and my life was transformed.
Free will in action, imagine that.... Good for you....
Amen brother, our willingness and obedience go hand in hand, i'm so happy you said yes to his call. May the Lord Jesus Christ Bless you and your transformation and sanctification process! ✝️🙏
@@zionstalowski5194 Thank you and likewise to you.
He knows everything about everybody.
The difference, for those who are saved, they can rejoice with Him when seeing Him at work.
For example,
maybe you'll convince only one person in your life to turn to the Lord.
But that one person was chosen by God to turn thousands to Him.
So
Love everybody, even your enemies.
Keep preaching.
Listen (=Do) what God says
One of the reasons I like Voddie is (unlike some other Calvinists) he isn’t afraid to talk about the contentious positions they adhere to and I respect that. But I can't agree with Voodie's take on predestination and the doctrine of the elect, allow me to explain why.
A long time ago I attended a church for a year before the pastor eventually confirmed his Calvinist beliefs. It’s a long story but this church transitioned from ultra charismatic to ultra Calvinist. My family’s time there was the ‘in-between’ year when it was sat at ‘mid swing’. We were there by God’s leading and were greatly blessed with what was probably our best church experience - I’ll come back to this at the end.
In this latest video Voddie is trying to justify his position on the doctrine of pre-destination and the elect. The doctrine of the elect requires some theological extrapolation (some might say ‘gymnastics’) and is a subject that I am happy to revisit from time to time so that I can review my own understanding and position on. So, I watched and listened to the video in anticipation.
Voddie is a good preacher and many people will be convinced and reassured by this preach but I ended up being even more skeptical than I was before. Did anyone else get the feeling he was hanging on to an entrenched position almost desperately trying to convince himself?
At 7:50 Voddie links salvation with a “chain of events” that God is already aware of. Of course, Voddie is absolutely correct. God is outside of our known reality and ultimately controls everything. He knows and always has known everything including those who are saved. At this point in the video, Voddie could concede (but he doesn’t) and accept that God’s ways are beyond our understanding and although the Bible gives us many insights and prophesies we are ultimately unable to dictate His plans to Him.
Despite revealing many mysteries to us in His word, God doesn’t reveal everything. Why? Because, first and foremost, God demands our obedience through the gift of faith. Unfortunately, certain reformists and Calvinists act as though knowledge is the goal; often knowledge only they possess! The inherent problem with knowledge is that we can get so wrapped up in our intellect that we prevent God from revealing the things He wants to us to know.
Knowledge isn’t the goal; obedience is.
The wrong kind of knowledge can make us arrogant. It can even make us think we are elite or elect??? The Pharisees were warned and rebuked by Jesus for this. Our Lord said, “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to” - Matthew 3:13.
God reveals those things that would serve a purpose in helping us obey and follow him. Deuteronomy 29:29 is a key verse here, “Secret things belong to the Lord our God, but those that are revealed belong to us and our descendants forever, so that we might obey all the words of this law”. I appreciate this verse might be rejected at source by the reformed church’s penchant for replacement theology. Don’t worry, I’ll avoid opening that can of worms!
Back to the video. From 12:00 to 13:25 Voddie directly addresses the parent’s dilemma of ‘What if my children are not elect’. He uses the analogy of the sower to encourage parents to tell their kids about the gospel. This is scripturally very sound and there are many bible verses to support it, not least Proverbs 22:6. But according to the doctrine of the elect, if someone is (or is not for that matter) predestined there is nothing you can do to alter God’s decision. It seems Voddie is conceding his argument by not putting his trust in predestination.
What if the parents don’t have those conversations but instead trust their ‘pre-destined’ beliefs that their children will be saved anyway? Personally, I wouldn’t want to go against God’s guidance in the Bible and take that risk.
I think what he’s trying to say is God has also predestined the conversations the parents should and will have. I can’t help thinking he’s playing to his audience and covering all his bases here while clinging on to his deeply held belief in the doctrine of the elect.
Why can’t Calvinists accept they don’t know everything? I might be a little disingenuous with that statement but when I listen to men like Voddie Baucham and John MacArthur I can’t help sensing a lack of humility.
Over the years I’ve been to most types of protestant churches. I was born again (oh dear, another problematic area for reformists) at 19 years old and had no preconceptions. I was an open book ready and willing to get to grips with my new life. I thought going to church* would be a good place to start. Over the years, I realised just how fragmented the church is.
Recently, I’ve realised there is a particular divide. It’s not immediately obvious, especially if you haven’t been exposed to a range of denominations. When you do see it you start to appreciate the extent to which it has divided the body of Christ**.
The divide I’m referring to is the difference between the Reformed (predominantly Calvinists) and the Charismatics (predominantly Pentecostals). This is most notable in their respective attitudes towards ‘the spiritual gifts’. If you don’t know what I mean then a simple Google search along the lines of ‘cessationism versus continuationism’ will keep you busy for weeks!
I believe the result of this divide is more significant than people appreciate. The two extremes have become so obsessed with their respective positions that I wonder if they’ve left any room for God.
All that said, both sides share the following traits -
Their respective practices have empowered their leaders.
Both often have large congregations and online following.
The leaders often achieve celebrity status, even in the smaller organisations.
Most ‘mega churches’ adhere to one side or the other.
You rarely see a surprising or reluctantly appointed leader, the bible is full of them but these types of churches are not.
It’s not unusual for leaders to be ‘self appointed’ or selected by a small group of ‘insiders’.
The congregation are rarely actively involved or have any influence over the important functions of the church.
The leaders maintain a tight grip and control of the organisation.
It’s a ‘followship’, rather than a fellowship.
These seemingly ‘at odds’ groups certainly appear to have a lot in common. Does that remind you of any secular ideologies?
The church I referred to earlier in the message had most of these traits to one extent or the other when it was in one of the extremes. But during ‘the swing’ there was a brief moment when the congregation felt like ‘one body’. It was during this time the pastor was least confident, torn between his charismatic approach and his new found Calvinism. Unfortunately, he was uneasy with the lack of confidence (and control) and soon found himself again when he eventually came out of the closet in his new Calvinist clothes.
The fragmentation of the church is intensely sad, we couldn’t even be trusted to organise ourselves into a unified body. Lord forgive us.
Thankfully, He, The Lord God Almighty, Yeshua, The I AM, Elohim, El Shaddai, The One who brought His people out of captivity in Egypt has a plan! HE will unite the Body of Christ!
I hope these comments will be useful in bringing someone into a closer relationship with their Heavenly Father. Read your Bible and He will commune with you through His word. Don’t worry too much about understanding, The Holy Spirit will take care of that. Just go in with the right attitude and a heart to know Him more.
God bless and I hope to see you all one day. Maranatha.
*By ‘church’ I mean those organised groups of people who identify as Christians and meet together, predominately on Sundays. I known this is not what church really is but the definition of church is nowadays to opaque **When talking about those people who have been saved by what Jesus did for us I prefer to use the phrase the ‘Body of Christ’.
Thank you!
Huh?
Thank you! 🙏
Thank you for the comment! I was skeptical on this video as well. I remember reading Romans 8:29-30 of the elect. The way I see it to over simplify it all is God knew you before you were born and knows all you will go through in life and all your decisions. INCLUDING your decision in accepting Jesus Christ as your savior and walking with him.
Wow! Thank you for your post. I was blessed reading it and think God is speaking through you - the points made were clear, concise and spot on. All glory to Him of course, not to you or any of us. I believe the Lord has enabled you to express the thoughts I've been unable to.
It is interesting reading the comments for this sermon/video. When topics that touch the things we love the most, like children, are discussed it can bring about many deeply buried emotions and hurts. I can look back on my 54 years of life and see where God sowed His Gospel seeds in my life through people and events both minor and major. I can look back and see the Spirit watering those seeds through Godly people and pastors preaching the Love and forgiveness of our Heavenly Father. I look back and see the wounded hands of Jesus reaping the seeds of Love that were planted. Some of these things were because I chose to believe and sought a deeper relationship with God. I use the wording of my "free will" as that is how I grew up with a Wesleyan tradition. But I understand I could do nothing by myself and it was His Spirit that let me believe and understand. There was no chose I could make by myself that could have accomplished this. It is all through the Will of God.
I have spent years worshiping in a Calvinist Church where the sovereignty of God was preached. As I have read the scriptures and became a Seeker of the Way, the Truth, and the Life I have let my roots dig deeper into the loving soil of God through the teachings of Jesus and the guidance of the Holy Spirit. There was no way for me to stay rooted except through His will. It is all God's work reflected through His people, His Elect, It has always been God's will at work.
Looking at scripture we see that all men were created to have a relationship with God but through one man, Adam, we are now all sinners. Did Adam seek out God for forgiveness or was it God that sought out Adam? When every man was sinful and God saw only one man Noah was righteous. God still reached out a saving hand to save Noah. We see this over and over throughout the Old Testament where man's free will led many to sin. Over and over it was God reaching out with His love through righteous people to preach the Word to bring the people of God, the Elect, Was it free will or because they were chosen. That is a good question.
Whether you come from an Armenian or Calvinist position, both preach the sovereignty of God and emphasize that we have a personal relationship with the Father through His Son. This relationship requires us to reflect His life through the Spirit. there is nothing I can do to bring my children into a saving faith. I as a father feel that I should be able to protect and save all my children. The hardest thing a parent can do is loose a child whether physically or spiritually. We cannot choose to be saved as being saved is something only God can do. As a Christian, either Calvinist or Armenian or any other, we can only choose to allow God to work through us both with our children and those we come in contact with. My greatest sorrow is seeing my son walking in the Darkness of this world. I use my "Free Will" to pray for him daily through thoughts and words. I have lost a son spiritually and I know that there is nothing I can do. I understand that my Hope is that the suffering of my heart will allow God to produce a Miracle.
Why do we always seem to fight ourselves whether Calvin or Armenian was right. The Truth is that the Gospel of Jesus is Right and helps bring people into the Father's loving embrace. We both say the same truth. We say it in different ways but it should always be the Truth of the Gospel. If someone has a deeper faith because they think of themselves as the Elect. PRAISE GOD for that glorifies Him. If someone believes that they have the Free Will to choose. PRAISE GOD for that glorifies Him. Our job is not to fight among ourselves but to be His Reflection to the world so that it glorifies HIM. We are two sides of the same coin preaching the Gospel so that the Spirit can use us to sow, to water, and to reap for the Glory of God. AMEN.
Calvinism turns into "practical arminianism" (works-based salvation) when it comes to Perseverance of the Saints.
I ask: God's promise or your perseverance? It is not both.
@@19bmasePart of God’s work in me IS to help me persevere! If He didn’t, I wouldn’t. HE keeps me. I’m not able to. And who God keeps, He does not lose. 🙌🙌 Praise God! 💕🙏💕
@@LeeB5 correct. Romans 5:1-5 mostly where through our faith in Jesus our suffering produces endurance and endurance produces character and character produces hope and hope will not put us to shame because God's love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit. Again it shows the sovereignty of God and we only need to be willing to abide in Him.
@@19bmase Why do we have the Bible. It is to let us know who God is and how we can have a relationship with Him. When i read the Bible I can see that it is a living document as the Spirit is there to help lead us into that relationship. Even if you look at how the bible is made of 66 books spanning thousands of years and written by multitude men guided by His Spirit. It is an over-arching journey from man's creation, fall, calling to holiness and eventually our reunion with our Heavenly Father.
In these inspired Word of God He reveals who He is and that man was originally meant to have a personal relationship with Him and work His creation for His Glory. Everything between the Fall of Man to our entrance into the new heaven and earth is just showing us how we can return to the holiness we lost due to the Fall.
How we work out our Faith may be seen as the traditions of man through the interpretations of Scripture. Paul calls us to be all things to all man so that through our acts of faith we can Glorify God. God is an awesome God and can take our weaknesses and suffering to produce Miracles. When our traditions, like Armenianism and Calvanism, take away the Glorification of God it sets a bad example to those we are called to preach the Gospel to. Throughout my learning going to church from both of those backgrounds and my personal journey with God through scripture and suffering (read Rom5-1-5) It really does not matter if we think of it as being Elect or Free Will. If that brings someone closer to God and waters the seeds planted by the Spirit the fruits that the Spirit will reap ultimately Glorify God. God does not need us, but He wants us to be willing to be used.
I will give an example of an experience. I was in charge of one of the hydration stations for volunteers at Ground Zero in New York for most of November 2001. Most of the NYC volunteers would come to the station I was in charge of and I was able to build relationships with many firefighters digging through the rubble for survivors and any remains. Being there to listen to their stories and cry with them when anything was found bound us. Towards the end of my stay I was able to start sharing the Gospel with a NYFD Lieutenant. Coming from a Wesleyan tradition my approach was coming from a "free will" perspective. That day there happened to be some Lutheran seminary students and one of them started contradicting my approach to how I was "preaching" the Gospel. The Lieutenant proceeded to say, "Why don't you discuss this among yourselves and when you get an answer come talk to me." It was at this point I realized that when we fight among ourselves about the traditions of man's interpretations of the Gospel the only loser is us because we have taken away from Glorifying God in our words and deeds.
My original post was in response to many comments debating who is right and who is wrong. It diminishes what God is trying to do through us. Listening to Voddie I came away with we should be preaching the Gospel for the Glorification of God. As long as we allow the Light of Jesus to be reflected through us. It does not matter if it is because of the assurance of the Elect or the free choice we make. It is always and forever God working through His Son and Spirit that brings people to a saving faith.
Why does it have to be God's will or man's will? Couldn't it just simply be that that both are involved? We chose God because He first drew us to Himself. But the Bible is clear that God draws all people to Himself. But our loving God doesn't force us. Those who do not resist that drawing and choose Him, become the elect. Since God knows all things from the beginning, He knew who would respond to His drawing and choose Him. In that sense, they are the elect and chosen of God.
I don’t get up before a congregation but I preach the Good News
Oh LORD, your ways are ALWAYS better than ours! I thank YOU that your knowledge and your will cannot be thwarted, especially by my ignorance & ineptitude❤
My faith goes to my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, his words and the promise of eternal salvation. I will not put my trust on someone who lived to tell things centuries after the author of my salvation.
Faith comes from hearing
If God is omniscient, then He knows everything , both the beginning and end. Although He wishes no one to perish and be separated from Him for eternity , being omniscient He knows who will accept the Holy Spirit’s I invitation to accept Jesus as Lord and gives everyone the chance for repentance. That’s where we as the church provide the opportunity of repentance by preaching the Gospel
When asked which is right, Calvinism or Armenian? I say if we look at scripture both are clearly discussed and outlined. My answer is both are true and this is just one of mysteries that we need to trust God with, much like the Trinity, which we cannot fully understand. So I am neither Calvinist or Armenian, those are man made titles. I am a believer of God’s Word. I with rest in God’s control and do what He asks, to share the Gospel. Just be still and know He is God. Great Sermon by Voodie. God bless you, yes you!
I really like how you put this! Having studied myself both perspectives, I lean Armenian but ultimately try and live without worry of losing my salvation but also not testing the "can never lose your salvation" hypothesis. Committing to living in relationship with God daily and trusting him for the times when I don't hit that mark.
Double minded , unstable , pick a side
@@chazayah5985Jesus said "follow me". He never said choose a man to follow.
The real question is: Who created these views? For 400 years of church history, leaders taught by the Apostles did not embrace doctrines like total depravity, double predestination, or the views of Augustine, a Manichean Gnostic. Augustine introduced the concept of original guilt, total depravity, and double predestination centuries after the Apostles, leading to a significant departure from earlier church teachings.
So, when it comes to credibility, we must ask: Who holds more weight-Augustine's teachings, which appeared centuries later, or the consistent teaching of the early Church Fathers? It’s not possible for both Calvinism and Arminianism to be entirely true, because each perspective represents a fundamentally different view of God's plan for salvation. Either we are pre-programmed through predestination, or we are created with the freedom to choose.
When reading the Old Testament, God's interactions with the Jews are clear: He expresses anger over their disobedience and calls them to repentance. If everything had been predetermined, it would make no sense for God to be upset with their actions. His call to repentance, urging them to turn and live, shows that they had the free will to respond. This is a direct contradiction to the idea that everything was already decreed.
By the way these are not the only 2 views there are more, like Greek Orthodox, and Provisionist. In fact, Arminians have a problem by accepting Augustine's teaching of total depravity.
@@catalina7294100%
“For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people.”
Titus 2:11 NIV
The offer is to ALL people. God has foreknowledge of those who will take that offer. Whosoever believes in this offered salvation shall not perish but have eternal life.
Exactly!!! Well said.
Amen! God is Good!!! Praise Him!!! HalleluJah! ✝️💜🙌🏼
Right, ALL people.... then there are Calvinists who will reply " then what good did it do them (the ones going to Hell), If Jesus died for them? They just want to be arguementive... the answer is simple- they simply rejected Jesus, they chose to go to Hell...
What is the difference? Could you say that by God knowing someone will not believe in him, yet allowing them to be born is fighting for the same cause? God knowing someone will believe in him is essentially the same argument just disguised in a more palatable way.
Is God obligated in such a way that He must (whether He wants to or not ) foreknow who will accept His offer of salvation? What if God wants for at least some of the future to be open to different possible outcomes and therefore not foreknown as certain? If God’s nature is such that He must foreknow everything as certain and He cannot experience changes in His knowledge and cannot change His mind or experience changes in His emotions that would cause Him to consider changing His mind then is God even capable of ever deciding anything? Many of us have been taught these cannot do’s about God. What if God wants election to be corporate style and not always at the individual level? What we believe about God’s foreknowledge not only impacts what we believe about man’s free will, it also impacts what we believe about God’s very own free will to freely make His own decisions. The thought of God being a finite, albeit all-knowing but still finite cosmic fate machine who faces the future knowing that He can only do only what He always knew that He would do and cannot avoid doing any of the things that He always knew that He would do does not make for a theology that exalts God’s greatness and infinity. From my perspective all forms of closed theism all arrive at the same destination of fatalism just like Calvinism. Not only are all of our actions and choices fated and set in stone, all of God’s choices and actions are fated and set in stone as well if any form of closed theism is true. Many will ask, “If God foreknows everything as certain then are our choices really freely made?” and so few will ask the much better question, “ If God foreknows as certain all of His own future actions and choices then are His choices really freely made by Him?
God does not condemn, He has determined before time He will save anyone who calls on Him. The whole scripture teaches that if we believe, it is the work of the Spirit. From my experience, God is trying to save us all.
God doesn't "try" anything. He is sovereign in all things, or He is not sovereign at all.
@sandygamble6051 you are correct in that God does not "try" to do anything, and He is sovereign over all things.
What does that mean, though?
So child torture and abuse are predetermined??? Explain that! My GOD is not Calvinist!
What does the scripture say? Its not about our experience, thoughts or feelings, it's What the word of God says! There are things that God never intended for our little finite minds to know or understand. The clay does not tell the potter what to do!
That will always trouble me, but I'm not discouraged, for nothing is impossible for God.
I bet what troubles you is not the gospel but the Calvinistic theology of this preacher.
I believe this is one of Gods mysteries that our one dimensional mind cant wrap around. All I know os God doesnt lie so when the bible speaks on predestination and free will...I have faith that both must be true...even if I dont fully understand how...it will be revealed on Gods time. In the meantime...keep preaching the Gospel ❤
You make a good point, I think you should check out William Lane Craig and his view on Molinism. It is the combination that both are true
I believe that Abba can do both, I have thought that for a while ever since I had a conversation with someone over predestination (i didn't even know this belief existed). I get tired (even with myself) of our logic over what God can do! He is Good and He is Just!
@@jaspsalmaison2421 have you checked out Molinism?
God knows who is going to repent and choose Jesus before we were born. I think somehow people forget that....or don't understand it. Blessings....for every Brother and Sister to yet come to the Lord!Amen.. Hallelujah
Amen....God is sovereign....we are looking through a pinhole, so we must do what His Word says, because we don't see what he sees. Sow the seed and continue to take every opportunity to sow the seed, because we don't know the way in which God will use us.
Well-said.
Trouble is, Calvinusts redefine sovereignty as Meticulous Divine Determination
God is sovereign, but the with the definition of sovereign that Calvinist preachers proclaim.
When they say sovereign they mean meticulously fatalistic determinism, a concept or found in the Bible.
Thank you Father for your mercy and grace ❤
Jesus died for everyone of us that have lived on this Earth, I owe everything to him.
No,if that's true, no one would be in hell
@ everyone will have the opportunity to know Jesus,repent and be baptized not everyone will accept this, we all have our free agency, the key is getting to know our Savior, remember Isaiah 45:23
In this verse, God declares that every knee shall bow and every tongue shall swear allegiance to him
@@jeyvjoty How can dead and depraved man kind who are inheritors of Adam's so called free will, choose God? We cannot choose Him without regeneration
@@John-g8o3x NO... They chose Hell, They chose darkness because their deeds were evil, they refused to bow down to God, we do have free will. everything in our life we choose that requires a decision. Joshua said " CHOOSE THIS DAY WHO YOU WILL SERVE!!!!! IF YOU ARE RIGHT, then why did Jesus weep over the unrepentent jews in His day, if itwas Gods will that they just were not chosen to begin with? It just don't make any sense at all !!!!!
The Son receives exactly who the Father gives to Him. And that is those who are written in the book of life.
Praise GOD for HIS servants who are doing the will of GOD, may GOD bless you in all you do in the powerful name of JESUS
Seems like this preacher is more interested in preaching Calvinism than the gospel.
I lost my son at 30 yrs. Before I was changed myself. I didn't put forth a life I should've. I love him deeply, and ultimately leave it to God to save him.
you will see your son again, it just the patience of the timing
4
James
I just lost my 34yo son in 9/2024. He was saved. I believe I will see him again in Heaven after I fall on my knees and thank God first. All our tears will be wiped away.
God bless you and I'll meet you there. Keep the faith.
@@James-vy3tq I lost b two sons, one at 32 years, one was 27. I trust God wants them and saves them both...
🤗💞
Plant and water seeds of the gospel in the gardens of other parent’s estranged children. My neighbor is half my age and told me he’s estranged from his family. He doesn’t know that I too am estranged from my kids. I’ll be giving him a Christmas gift with some Bible verses in the card. This helps the estranged become Prodigals back to the Father in Jesus’ name. 🙏Acts 2:38 ✝️🕊🎁
What most people don't understand with God's Predestination is that He had already SEEN our end and knows EVERYTHING :-Isaiah 46:9-10
[9]Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,
[10] DECLARING the END OF FROM the BEGINNING, and FROM ANCIENT TIMES the THINGS that ARE NOT YET DONE, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I WILL DO ALL MY PLEASURE " , hence He " FORE KNOWS" us as per Romans 8:29 "]For WHOM he did FORE KNOW, He ALSO did PREDESTINATE to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren."
So, do we KNOW our end?... If we made it? Where we are with the Lord in this instant? Do we believe in Him,that He sent His Word, His ONLY BEGOTTEN Son Jesus Christ to die for us, Redeem us and ensure our Salvation through His PRECIOUS BLOOD? That by Repenting and letting us be Baptized in water FOR the Remission [ Forgiveness] of our sins and thereby RECEIVING God's GIFT of The HOLY SPIRIT?
If we did this in obedience to His Will then we will go on to be SAVED! So Predestination is NOT God choosing BEFOREHAND who will be saved, but SAVING us through His Foreknowledge of our lives, from birth to death OR our status at the RAPTURE...Coming of the Lord Jesus - 1 Corinthians 15:51-52
[51]Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
[52]In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed".
TRUST IN GOD. TRUST THE LORD JESUS. TRUST THE HOLY SPIRIT. TRUST AND BELIEVE GODS WORD, the HOLY BIBLE!!!
GOD Bless and KEEP you!!!!
You are sooooo wrong. No body can save another individual you cannot save yourself only God can save you. Scripture teaches there will be no self-righteous enter the kingdom of God
@@larrybulthouse455Where did he say one can ‘save another individual’?? That is not at all what I got from his comment.
Not correct. Not saved by works
Belief is not a work.
@joannedaniels1446 there are many verses that states men are to repentance (action) and to believe (action). There are people who understand this. That is how tares, and false brethren arise, because all are commanded to obey the gospel. This is a very difficult principle, and depending on the instruction you have received, the amount of Bible study and natural talent God gives, even one who is not saved can have limited knowledge, so have you looked carefully in the Bible to harmonize all the references containing the action of believing. It most certainly is an action. That's why there is unbelief. It's the opposite and a resistance (action) would you say unbelief is not a work? If so, that's very interesting and I'd like to hear more
It’s needed to say : “ We keep preaching the Gospel because we have FAITH in the Word that our kids will be saved (are already saved)
Lord I pray for my 3 Children Roxanne Kaylee and Jordan that they will know You in a True Way and that Lord you will show them Your Salvation in The Name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth
Dear Lord Bless Roxanne,Kaylee and Jordan to know You. Restore their Soul Lord Jesus from darkness to light, from dead to alive. In Jesus name we pray amen.
Amen 🙏
Powerful. So profound. Hallelujah.
No matter how passionate one preaches, or what soundtrack is put to the preaching, it doesn't change the error of Calvinism. No matter how one spins it, the answer to the question about their children is no matter if a parent preaches the Gospel or not, God has already decided the child's eternity. That is not a God of love. That is a pagan god of stone. It's the result of interpreting the scriptures through the lens of the pagan Greek philosophy of Plato who inspired Augustine who inspired John Calvin.
Amen!
Yes, exactly .
I didn't know Baptists believed in this nonsense, I expected better.
@@mikeorton9931I listened to the entire video and I'm not unfamiliar with Voddie's preaching or the teaching of Calvinism. God bless.
Amen 🙏 Thank you for this message. You are such a blessing from our Father God. Hallelujah. I love Jesus so much and He loves us so much.
Amen. Those who wait for the Lord find favor, guidance, and so much more. 😢
Help me Lord plant water and seed.. of I plant let someone else water or if someone else plants use me to water.. Lord You are Sovereign
God accepts all of His children who repent and choose His ways.
Not Biblical
@ John 3:16
@everinnajin that's a very good verse! Unfortunately many do not apply that verse in the light of the gospel, amd wave it proudly without using it faithfully. How readest thou? As Christ says. Anyone who believes. Yes! Well, who really believes the gospel. Can a baby do it, can a deaf dumb blind man believe? Your foundation hangs on one verse, and God wrote a large book containing mysterious truths and sadly, you've pulled the most popular verse (the broad way).the narrow way., Christ says, few there be that find it. And even that verse seems to imply that you have to 'find' truth, that is impossible for men. But possible with God. So belief is a work, finding is a work, and your understanding is at the bare minimum and I'm sure your grabbing hold to it instead of searching God's entire message. May God give eyes of understanding to whom He choses to give it. But that verse is for the lazy surface Bible person
@ the verse implies all of Gods teachings. Following the laws of God is believing. Having faith in God when all is lost is believing.
@@streetguru6240you come off as pretty arrogant seeing as that Bible verse is pretty powerful. You didn’t say anything to refute his argument, you just demonstrated yourself as haughty.
God has a perfect and a permissive will. He desires all to be saved but allows some to not.
What most people don't realize is that calvinism is not Christianity. It is a different gospel and a different religion. There is no difference between what John Calvin, Joseph Smith, and Charles Taze Russell did. All are different gospels.
None of the false teachings of calvinism (gnosticism) were accepted by the early church. Calvinism, which is simply gnosticism, was vehemently fought against for nearly 500 years. 1 John is a refutation of it. Finally, Augustine was able to deceive the church and infiltrate his gnostic beliefs into it. Calvin, who could not comprehend the true gospel of God's Word because of the extreme mental and physical abuse he suffered at the hands of priests ( documented by Erasmus) turned to the gnostic beliefs of Augustine. Here was a god Calvin could relate to. Cold, distant, a creater of mindless puppets.
Incredibly encouraging!
I am currently struggling with reconciling this on both sides of the argument. I don't know where I stand after hearing arguments on both sides from reputable scholars. What I come away with is that Salvation comes from God alone we are incapable of being right before Him without Him.
He has commanded us to preach the gospel and so we should.
As I work through this the one thing I can say for certain is either way I will not know whether or not the person I share the gospel will be saved or not, so I preach either way. I plant seeds, I water some, and God will take care of the rest. This is a difficult topic.
Keep it up. We don't save anyone; God does. "Salvation is of the Lord." Jonah 2:9.
"Salvation is of the Lord." Jonah 2:9
Answer
Wisdom lands Amen
"Lord, where shall we go, thou has the words of eternal life..."John 6:68a
That’s why Jesus talked about the wide gate and the narrow gate.. all we can do is pray for salvation for loved ones.
Jesus IS the narrow gate.
So. Everyone is not going to heaven. Simple fact of the scripture that many refuse to accept!
@@tellitome369Are you denying God's truth about salvation? Definitely you don't believe in Jesus Christ, u have made your decision and u re comfortable to the idea of going to hell. Okay, but don't be telling lies. Whoever is saved will go to heaven by the faith in Jesus Christ. Are you saying nobody is saved then?????
Who are you to change God's word? Abraham is on heaven by the faith and many other saints from the old testament. Today also the same thing, that's why Jesus came to earth. You should read the bible instead of spreading lies on the internet.
@@tellitome369Are you denying God's truth about salvation? You are calling God a liar. Definitely you don't believe in Jesus Christ, u have made your decision and u re comfortable to the idea of going to hell. Okay, but don't be telling lies. Whoever is saved will go to heaven by the faith in Jesus Christ. Are you saying nobody is saved then?????
Who are you to change God's word?
Abraham is on heaven, becoz he was saved by the faith on Jesus Christ. This is written on John. And still remains today, that's why Jesus Christ came to earth. You have to faith on Jesus Christ your savoir, he came to earth. Repent of your sins in the name of Jesus, so God will purify you, and be saved of your sins.
Start reading the bible instead of spreading lies on the internet.
@@tellitome369you were used by the satan to write this, so he can move people away from salvation, from God.
John 3:16 "God so loved the world that He gave His only Beggon Son that whosoever believes in Him should not perrish, but have everlasting life."
Well spoken by our Savior, Jesus Christ.
Jesus didn’t only die for the sins of the elect, He died for the sins of the World. ~John 3:16
No he did not 😂😂. He only died for the elect. Stop denying basic biblical theology just because it's not the outcome you desire.
@@limitlesschoices lol yeah right. Good one.
God's love is universal in the sense that He shows common grace to all people (Matthew 5:45) and offers salvation indiscriminately through the preaching of the gospel. However, the phrase
"world" here is understood to mean people from every nation and not merely the Jews. The focus is on the scope of God's redemptive plan, which includes Gentiles as well as Jews, rather than every individual
God's love is universal in the sense that He shows common grace to all people (Matthew 5:45) and offers salvation indiscriminately through the preaching of the gospel. However, the phrase
"world" here is understood to mean people from every nation and not merely the Jews. The focus is on the scope of God's redemptive plan, which includes Gentiles as well as Jews, rather than every individual
it is the means through which the elect are called to salvation (Romans 10:14-17).
While Christ's atonement is particular, the gospel is offered indiscriminately, and God ensures that the elect will respond in faith.
It is God’s will that all be saved, but in order for us to be saved we have to meet His requirements. God loves us all, but not all love Him back. He is not forceful, He is a free will God. He teaches and shows you how to receive salvation, you choose. We will be saved if we acknowledge Christ, by believing, turning from our old ways and constantly remaining in Jesus Christ by living like Him
Voddie, what about the many verses that proclaim "whosoever will ?" Including Rom. 22:17, the voice of Jesus Christ. What about 1 John 2:2?
Voddie is a Calvinist, he’ll twist every one of those verses to make them fit his ideology.
@@arielson90 that is an extremely uncharitable statement about your brothers and sisters in Christ. Neither side (generally) "twists" Scripture - they interpret it differently.
Proper biblical teaching! 🙏
"Worry is not a trivial sin. It strikes a blow both at God's love and integrity."
John MacArthur
We trust God's Word and character. Always.
@@MyCircus82 When God said, choose you this day whom you will serve, one has to call him a liar if the choice isn’t really ours.
@@BlueLake7exactly! We have a choice. Doctrines of grace undermine the truth of the text
@@KCRookie I believe we are under grace, just not Calvinism.
Calvinism presents troubling ideas-are my kids not elect? And if not, is that simply "not my department"? The portrayal of God in Calvinism often less loving than the Apostle Paul, who, in Romans 9 and 10, expressed a willingness to be accursed if it meant his fellow Israelites could be saved. Paul’s deep compassion contrasts sharply with the Calvinistic view.
Furthermore, Calvinists frequently rely on quotes from men rather than Scripture, and worldly illustrations, like movies, to defend their theology. This approach reveals a consistent disconnect between Calvinism and biblical context. Predestination in the Bible is about the redemption of the Body, not individual salvation. Unfortunately, Calvinism and proper biblical context rarely go hand in hand.
Dear brother I Will rejoice the day that you lay hold of your true identity in Israel...As an Israelite.
Is 41-6, Ezk 37,att 26:31-41
If God gave you children, he has a plan for them
But according to this sermon, that plan might be for them to go to hell. They might have been born with a losing lottery ticket. But you aren't to worry about it because "that's not your department." Such a horrible heresy.
@@denisescott34 You're absolutely correct. According to this sermon, God _"wills"_ some people to hell.
@@denisescott34 yup
It's written in Isaiah 59:21 and Acts 16:30-31.
@@johngregory4801 Hold on there lit'le buddy
Genesis 15:6 And he believed in the Lord; and he ((counted)) it to him for righteousness.
At that point Abram was not cleansed and made righteous before God. He was ((looking yet toward the cross of Christ)) No different than anyone on earth today. Abraham would need more than the blood of bulls and goats.
Gal 2:19-21 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
One must share the good news because Salvation is a choice. As much as I am chosen, I too must choose Jesus. It’s the Great Commission commanded by Jesus which must be obeyed.
I have heard other sermons by Voddie Baucham, and I normally love his preaching. I consider him to be an intelligent man, but I did not follow the logic in this sermon. I certainly believe in the Sovereignty of God, and no one is saved outside of His will. But I can't believe in the idea that salvation is outside of our own will, that we have no say in the matter. That seems contradictory to who God is, and the rest of scripture. How could you consider God as just and loving, if He creates a being without his/her permission, then sends him/her to hell without giving them a chance at salvation?
Exactly!
Lord, continue to give opportunities to understand your grace to those who believe this is the good news. Continue to offer them the good news that is even better than this. It isn't you who limits the number of people who will turn and be saved. You are a good father who would not give us nature's that could not accept the good news.
Verses such as "the harvest is plentiful but the labourers are few" say alot. What does God need labourers for when hes done it all already?
Three words of salvation "God chooses us."
Who so ever will!!!! why did Jesus weep over Israel if they were preordained to go to Hell anyway??? They weren't, They chose to reject Jesus.
@@ronalehman No not all of them. fact is some were blinded alright so the Greek gentile that's you and me could be saved.
He'll double back for some more later.
Who were elected in the parable of the wedding.? Matthew 22
@@arielson90 Re: Who were elected in the parable of the wedding?
Think on this. What in the world qualified them to be chosen "elected" in the first place?
@ the conditions put by the King.
Thankful I didnt grow up in a predestination church. That teaching makes God out to be the evil many believe Him to be. Bible says in too many places He wants none to perish. And I would never have had children. God having sovereignty to do something , doesnt mean He did that. Jesus died on the cross for all. For knowledge is not the same as creating people so they have no chance at salvation.
Amen!!
And YET CHOSE few to be saved! I was born again and wanted family etc and be in church saved. this is not everyone fault. I am praying to be back as I was not listening to PEOPLE. ITS BAD
I am not a Calvinist for this reason. It collids too much with John 3:16 and other passages. God knows what is to love a son- would he give us sons who could NOT possibly be saved?
I used to be a five point calvinist... And thankfully a friend challenge me to look into the alternative view. Came away from that almost 2 years ago
This young man is not cocky!
Predestination is based on the FOREKNOWLEDGE of God...Romans 8:29. God ordained those to be saved whom He foreknew would CHOOSE the gospel. Man has the responsibility to respond to the gospel.
It's amazing that such well read teachers don't even know the God of the bible. Something they have studied for years and are still blind to the truth.
Negative. Go back and read Romans.
@@nicolaslosito5735 I actually memorized Romans word for word...so no need to read it again .He is teaching false doctrine.
@ memorizing it is not the same as understanding it.
@@nicolaslosito5735 I've spent my whole life studying this. You literally are just spewing out John Calvin false doctrine. The apostles never taught this!!
Sadly the calvinists are so blinded that they cannot see how contradictory this is. By your definition God is the cause of evil and men can never be held responsible for not being saved. God himself rejects them and then punishes them. Now that is the very definition of injustice.
Amen!
Dr Leighton Flowers has a channel called Soteriology 101 where he lovingly & beautifully explains all the contradictions of Calvinism.
Romans 9:21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?
The funny thing Calvinism is the opposite of all these comments. Gives all the glory to the Lord and none to you unlike inviting Jesus Christ in your heart . How many people have done that a million times and are still goats.
@@Nate-tk1vs God did not create automatons. He gives us the right to choose. The deterministic world of calvinism is one of misguided doctrine that makes God the origin of evil.
@@abrahamgideon God word is precise in all he says. Isaiah 45:6-7 says the lord creates evil. Also Calvin was not a Calvinist he believed Paul’s writings on predestination which is God work of sanctification in a believers life to conform you to be like Christ that takes the remaining of your life. Paul said he did not know how to do that. He also said through much tribulation do you enter the kingdom of God. Act 14:22
I find regardless of the complexity of how God does this, our jobs are still the same- our experience is that of free will. If it is ultimately determined, we still do the best we can for the Lord. ❤
Amen
The “how’s” of God’s marriage of predestination and man’s will is beyond us to comprehend, and the “job” is indeed the same whatever one’s perspective. But there is a huge difference between our acknowledging that He made choices in eternity past as regards salvation, and our denying that He did so. It is a really bad idea to tell God He didn’t do something He has told us He did.
All who genuinely repent, ask, seek and knock are forgiven, receive, find, and enter (Mt 7). All those who do that were chosen by God according to His will and purpose. As Voddie points out, if in doubt, Just Do It so we show we were indeed chosen before the foundation of the world, as Scripture tells us. But to deny Him is to seek His denial of us.
The elect are those who turn to Christ by His grace.
God determined NO ONE to be lost.......first and foremost.
Predestination is not in the Bible. Not playing semantics, but there is a difference. Every person Jesus brings into this world is predestined and called to salvation and to be restored back to God, that’s the part of being created in “their image” that Jesus wants to come back to them. That’s the Holy Spirit component that is always and has always done the calling. I will always agree with Calvinist on the fact that God calls us. But the carnal “evil” side of us does not want to go back to God. So, there is the free will, or “our part” that Bodie says we don’t have. This is why scripture says “if” so often, is because we do have a say, or decision. “ Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him”. Jesus cannot create people to be lost, it is contrary to Gods character. “God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. ” 1 John 1:5
Correct. It's an abuse of the scriptures. Vain imagination and an abuse of God's word.
Correct. It's an abuse of scripture. He sounds like a snake oil salesman when he talks.
Romans 8:29-30
"For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers"
Ephesians 1:5
"He predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will"
First Peter 2:8
"Those who stumble because they disobey the word, as they were destined to do"
Romans 9:22
"Vessels of wrath prepared for destruction"
Proverbs 16:4
"The Lord has made everything for its purpose, even the wicked for the day of trouble"
Jeremiah 1:5
God sets men apart to be his prophets and apostles long before they were ever born
Galatians 1:15-16
God sets men apart to be his prophets and apostles long before they were ever born
John 6:37, 44; John 10:29; John 17:2, 6
Jesus alludes to keeping, teaching, and protecting those whom the Father has given to him
The Bible also teaches that people are accountable for their choices. God's desire is that all would be saved and come to repentance. He offers salvation to everyone, but not everyone will be saved.
God chose the nation of Israel out of all the other nations, and no one ever says that God was not being fair. If God chooses to show some mercy and others justice, that is His choice. He does not violate our free will. Rather, He works with it. We have the free will to do whatever we want. Because we have a sinful nature, many times we want to sin, so we choose of our own free will to follow that nature. When God regenerates us, He gives us a new nature that wants to serve Him, so we freely choose to do exactly what He has already chosen for us to do.
Basically we are at the mercy of our inclinations. If someone is addicted to drugs, don't they have free will? Can't they stop using any time they want to? We all know that it's not that simple. They will always do what they want to do, and if they want to get high that is what they will do every single time.
That's the truth about human free will.
@@noname7782OR…
2 Peter 3:9
Joshua 24:15
Revelation 22, 3:20,
Romans 10:9-10
Isaiah 55:6-7
Deut 30:19-20
Matthew 7
Acts 19
John 12:32
James 1:5-8
John 6:40-51
Hebrews 10:26-31
It stills leaves the question; what is the point of sharing the gospel if God already saved? I didn’t really catch the reason
Calvinism's only reason to share the gospel is camouflage. They must act like they need to share because they need to hide under the Christian label. They're a parasite that needs a host
I have to say:
"At this point the only predestination i believe in is that God will do what He wants and knows a way to save all men...
I do not care about all kinds of fancy "theology" or paper written by men (that state you are learned, AKA follow there ways).
I do care about what God wants. And He has said that He desires that no men would be lost.
Then i ask you:
Is anything impossible for our God?
I'm even gonna repeat myself, is anything impossible for the God of gods and King over all the kingdoms???
I thought so!!!"
All praise to the one who knows all things, makes all things possible and is the writer of everything that happens !!!! 🕊️❤️😇
Yeshua hamashiach (Jesus Christ)!!!! 🕊️❤️😇
He is the prince of peace and the King of kings!!! 🕊️❤️😇
He is LORD!!!! 🕊️❤️😇
A loving God is a just God who will be no means acquit the wicked. The words wicked and guilty are not synonymous, the wicked are all those who die without the blood of the Lamb, you and I are guilty of sin, but those who die covered by His righteousness will be pardoned for sin and transgression. It could not be any other way, for if He did not reward the wicked for their sins, then He would be an unjust and unloving God.
Hallelujah!
The best response I've read! God bless you!
Do we even remember that the older son keeps himself from the party...
It could be that is the thing that makes the diffrence???
Yeshua Hamashiach (Jesus Christ) did come and receive all kind of SINNERS!!! 🕊❤ 😇
The religious hypocrites and people that keep themself away are those that keep themselfs outside of the party...
We are those called to lead the party. So go and receive the hungry, the naked, the widows, the prisoners, etc.. And lead the party!!! 🕊❤ 😇
For Yeshua had said that He will judge no sin anymore. He judges if you have taken care of those in need just as if you are taking care of Yeshua Himself!!! 🕊❤ 😇
Jesus judges no man while they live on this earth.
But it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment. Hebrews 9:27.
Who is it that judges?
For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son.
To Christ is committed the highest prerogative, that of judging, as He is the manifestation of the Father in creation, so is He the manifestation of the Father in giving and executing the law.
Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for Him shall He appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
Are there any believers in Calvinism who are not elect who can tell me how that makes them feel?
How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel! 😔 It's not dependent upon us, but the one who doesn't fail.
The gospel IS the power of God and salvation to those who are saved. Thank you Jesus.
This answered my question on the elect, I am guilty of this myself, thank God for Brother Bachaum❤😊.
Run from doctrines of men (Calvinism). Run from Baucham. That's all I can say. I would encourage you to read the Bible without having it filtered through Calvinists like Baucham, Washer, MacArthur, etc.
@@AM-6030 Agree. Christianity and calvinism are different religions
@@naturematt4340 Amen! If only more would come to grips with this, my brother!
The most powerful sermon I have heard in a long time.
Amen... The wisdom of God so clearly explained.
@@jewel777Yet
We have plenty of pastors called Apostles and Bishops remarried and in adultery and THEY STILL
PREACHING. I am not going to sit by I am
Praying the HOLY GHOST THROW US OUT I don’t even Understand what i was thinking Tv and Mot listening to GOD.
God knows the end from the beginning and the beginning to the end so of course He knows who is elect.
The Lord has declared the ending from the beginning. EPHESIANS 1:4-5 For He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world to be blameless and holy before Him. In love He predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with His pleasure and will
IN HIM, NOT to him. Big difference! Keep drinking that Lawson flavored koolaid, jmac would be proud.
@Esuras98 it's the Word of God neighbor, not the word of Lawson. Plus, Voddie just preached the same thing. Predestination is all over the Bible from Genesis to Revelation. If men had a hand in their salvation, then we would have something to boast about. But , the scriptures say that God has done it so that no man may boast. It is all for His glory, not our glory. His power is on display. We were dead in our trespasses the Word says. Have you ever seen a dead man do anything but remain still and silent? Why do you think Jesus says no one can come to Him unless drawn by the Father and no one can go to the Father but through Him, therefore no one can receive the Spirit without the Father and the Son. The verdict? No one comes to God without God! Love, peace and Shalom in Jesus name.
Now read it in context. It doesn't support calvinism.
@willisprice7130 acknowledging tht u need Jesus n freely responding to His appeals toward us is not a work nor does it rob God of any glory. Calvinists get scripture so twisted on this stuff.
@graybillythekid Well, Voddie Baucham is not a Calvinists friend, nor did I mention works. As a matter of fact, God's sovereign election is a display of love, mercy and grace upon His people. In the biblical sense, the word grace means favor. If we performed any work to enter into the kingdom of God, then we would be receiving what we are owed, it would no longer be the favor of God. But, the Lord owes no one. EPHESIANS 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
If I have no option to reject God, I have no opportunity to love God. Love cannot be forced however, love must be a choice or there is no love. I am not a robot, robots are not told to have faith, nor are they rewarded for doing well. I cannot be held responsiblie for miss deeds, nor can I be rewarded for good deeds or actions. If I had no choice whether I acepted Christ, Then get off my back for not being what you want me to be, complain to God. No choice, only the elect, does sound like the person must be special. Then, God not only knew who was going to hell, He chose them, and created them for eternal punishment. Why? It wasnt their fault.
Voddie would be eaten alive in a debate on his flawed theology. He starts by saying God has determined all who will be saved and those who are is 100% on God, yet then goes on to say to parents “preach the gospel”, thereby putting the salvation of souls in our hands, because, if we decide not to preach the gospel, would there be one less soul saved that God decreed to be saved or did He decree us to not preach the gospel? Which is it.
People tend to forget that God is all knowing and is not limited by time. He knew us before we were born! He knew everything that we would do in life!
That is what fore knowledge is!
Yes we have to call on the name of God!
No we can't save our self and it is God.
The problem with teaching presentation is everyone forgets that God is all knowing.
Why do we bother because we are commanded too!
"teaching presentation"?
I think you mean predestination.
If so, the word predestined is in the scripture over and over. That is why Godly men teach it.
@thecrew777 I know it is along with the elect. My point is God already knows every single thing we will do in our life long before we are conceived! That means he knows our destiny aka we are pre destined. It doesn't mean we are special and/or God chose us. It just means God is all knowing and nothing else!
@@danieldunn6284 so, you mean that we chose Him?
Powerful and much needed this day. Thank you Heavenly Father, my Father for the words of encouragement.
There is one particular detail that calvinists always seem to skip over. That is, as it relates to Romans 8:29-30 ("For who he did foreknow, he did predestinate.... Moreover, whom he did predestinate, them he also called, justified and glorified.")
Of whom is Paul referring? Who are they who God has predestined, etc to be saved by the gospel? Calvinista, are you ready dor the answer? Here it is:
All of Adams race. We are all predestinated to recieve the offer of salvation through Christ Jesus. The problem is, though, that many of Adams race reject Gods offer.
After the fall, God made a covenant with Adam and Eve that he was going to redeem them, by sending a saviour through the seed of the woman. And by the seed of the woman, Christ, just as God predestined, came and brought salvation to Adams race. But many of Adams race have and still do refuse to accept Christs offer, subjecting themselves to a Christless eternity in Hell.
Man has a due part to play in recieving his salvation. No to do anything to earn or merit salvation. But he needs to acknolwedge what Christ has done, and not refuse it but take hold of it; put his confidence in what Christ had done to redeem man from the curse of sin. Man is predestined to be saved, not predestined that he is saved. The "is" or "is not" part is determined by man by how he responds to the "be saved" part.
So, what are you going to do, oh calvinist? Are you going to keep on sitting back in ignorance, telling yourself over and over, that you dont need to do anything about the gospel, because you think you are exempt from not being saved? Or are you going to see what Christ did to pay for your sins and to lay salvation before you, and realise that you now have been given the responsibility to have to decide for youself whether you will choose to trust in what Christ did, or reject him. To simply stand back in ignorance to that responsibility, has the same outcome as rejecting what Christ did - it will be as though God never offered it to you in the first place.
Son/Daughter of Adam, you have a choice to make, so choose wisely. Where you spend eternity depends on it
If man is sovereign with with salvation than God is no longer sovereign! To fore know means more than to be aware, it means to fore love!! Remember Ephesians 1:4 God chose the elect before creation! Mankind is spiritually dead, Ephesians 2.
Psalms 37:22 (KJV) For such as be blessed of him shall inherit the earth; and they that be cursed of him shall be cut off.
The righteous are blessed and the wicked are cursed, read the whole chapter again😅
John 1:
6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. 8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
This is why God sends his elect, that all people through them might believe, in the light.
Who soever will may come.
Romans 9,16; John 15,16; Romans 3,10-18; Genesis 6,5; Jeremiah 17,9...
Amen. My Father was very clear about this, as were Jesus and his apostles.
Not in Calvinism
@tarronhowe199 Since Calvinism has bupkis to do with the Gospel, all I can say is...
Whatever.
... except they believe Calvinism IS the gospel. A pastor used to tell me that Paul was a Calvinist. 😮
Is Gods saving grace available to all or just some? It’s interesting we’re taught about love and how it works but is completely the opposite when we’re talking about Our relationship to Him. I can’t force my wife to love me and God “forcing” me to love him is that love?
What is the point of tilling the soil, watering and exposing the seed to the Light if your child has no free will?
Preaching the gospel would be useless if they were predestined to hell. It just would’ve matter.
You preach because faith comes from hearing. That they will have the opportunity to believe.
Yes. And why do Calvinists insist on baptizing all babies, if most are damned reprobates. Makes the parents "feel good' and keep coming and paying tithes?
I will pray for the children God has put in my care. I will trust him in his decision. He’s God. I’m not. Like pardons given to criminals but not to all criminals. To say that any of you(commentators) have a choice in the work of the LORD is paramount to blasphemy. Great lesson.
The fact that Voddie doesn’t understand this self-contradiction is amazing. If God is sovereign and He elects 1/2 of your kids- then nothing you do or don’t do will effect the outcome. If you fail- He will simply use something else- after all God is sovereign. What if your efforts increase wrath for your pre-destined unbelieving child? What if you’re fighting God’s will by trying to “rescue” your child from His eternal, pre-ordained wrath? Fortunately, Voddie’s awkward theology has always been the minority view bc your Heavenly Father truly does love all your children and wants them all to turn to Him and be saved- despite Voddies poor and incoherent theology ❤
God wants this but this is not reality. The flood, one family left. Sodom & Gomorrah, half of the family. God told us over and over again, "a remnant " it's a hard truth but it is the truth. God says you're either hot or you're getting spit out.
And you know berrer, then why are you not preaching to millions what is right? You sound like the jealous scribes and Pharisee of Jesus time.
I enjoyed this message. Thanks.
It is God's will that all be saved . Calvinism paints a bad image of God and causes pride
You're arrogant to think such a thing. Calvin read the Scriptures and said exactly what the texts say. You speak as someone who has no understanding of Calvin.
Very true
@tangoseal1 I've studied Calvin for some time now. I have listened to hours of debates. I stand firmly with @maryhirst9127. The logic falls apart without us having the free will to choose. I am afraid you are the one that does not know Calvin. I would suggest you check out Mike winger or Leighton flowers to learn more on this.
Romans 9:22. Psalms 37. God doesn't lie.
@@JesusWon851 John 3:16-18. No, God doesn't lie, but that also doesn't mean you are understanding what He says correctly
GODS CHILDREN ARE PURE......THEY ARE CAUGHT IN A SIMULATION OF WHAT THEY SEE AND LEARN.. THEY OWN THIS. WORLD BUT ARE CAUGHT IN THE SIMULATION OF THE TEACHING OF THIS WORLD THROUGH THEIR EYES AND TOUCH.
Scripture clearly teaches that those who believe in Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior are not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. Clearly, unbelief in Jesus Christ is what condemns the person to hell, not because the person was not elect. Nowhere does the Scripture states that Jesus Christ died for the elect, but there are many Scriptures that says Jesus Christ died for the sins of all humanity and as Scripture says in John 3:18.
He that believes in Him is not condemned, but he who does not believe in Jesus Christ is condemned already because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. It doesn't say he who is elect will not be condemned, and it doesn't say he who doesn't believe is condemned because he is not elect.
СЛАВА ГОСПОДУ БОГУ ХРИСТУ ИИСУСУ ДУХУ СВЯТОМУ ВЕЧНАЯ АМИНЬ АЛЛИЛУЙИЯ:-GLORY TO OUR LORD GOD JESUS CHRIST HOLY SPIRIT FOREVER 🙏🌾🕊🌹🕊🌾🙏
Ecclesiastes 11:1-6
Cast your bread on the surface of the waters, for you will find it after many days. Divide your portion to seven, or even to eight, for you do not know what misfortune may occur on the earth. If the clouds are full, they pour out rain upon the earth; and whether a tree falls toward the south or toward the north, wherever the tree falls, there it lies. He who watches the wind will not sow and he who looks at the clouds will not reap. Just as you do not know the path of the wind and how bones are formed in the womb of the pregnant woman, so you do not know the activity of God who makes all things. Sow your seed in the morning and do not be idle in the evening, for you do not know whether morning or evening sowing will succeed, or whether both of them alike will be good.