Have a nice breakfast! On the topic of causes, have you considered doing a video on environmentalism and what it means to be a good steward? I'm wondering if there are any charities that re-naturalize or otherwise rehabilitate grass lawns and depleted farmlands.
I absolutely love this 🥹 I never had a chance with my dad (he was unalived when I was 5). Please cherish the time you have with your baby girl!!! Breakfast date with your daughter is absolutely beautiful in case you didn’t know, you’re being an amazing father!😢Enjoy your week and Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family Brandon ✊🏽🫶🏽🦃
Even when I was a woo believer, I would joke that there shouldn’t need to be signs for a Psychic Fair, as everyone should already know where and when to meet.
My daughter got cancer in 2021, and we lost her in 2022 - she was only 21. I had been questioning Christianity for a while before that, but when she got cancer, and I saw the way my family and the church treated her (she had left religion a couple years before that), as if she deserved it - with no sympathy or kindness to her, because they believed she deserved it as a result of her "sin", it was the catalyst to leave Christianity for good. How can a god of love do something like that? How can people who profess to spread the love of their so-called god treat someone like that? It's true what they say, there's no hate like Christian love. Rest easy, baby girl.
@@gojub3173 ❤️ I wish atheists had a more present community sometime in situations like this. I'm sending you a virtual hug and RIP to your beautiful baby girl. You're a good parent and I'm sorry that you had to go through one of the worst things a parent can ever go through. It wasn't fair and it wasn't right.
I’m so sorry for your loss. Deconstruction is difficult enough, let alone under the conditions you were dealing with. May she rest easy and may you find peace.
It's obviously the parent's sin right? Cite a bunch of idiocy from the Old Testament proving it. Does Star Trek have religions? I am wondering if the Klingon religion is real now. Why not, right? Stovokor is exactly analogous to Hell, except it is infinitely more believable. Then you could explain the cancer instantly as sins of the father. The parents of cancer victims must be hideous sinners, in their cartoon-logic infected mind.
@@bronwentillman8385 Since the beginnings of science-based medicine, humans have to handle much less compared to the days of bleeding, purging, etc. I guess the people before The Great Enlightenment must have been more sinful.
"That cancer could be a wonderful opportunity to build character and integrity for that child." Is one of the most HORRENDOUS things I have ever read in my entire life.
from experience I can ask this: what gives greater comfort to a child? Repeatedly calling out to an invisible, silent being you've never seen who never comes into your room to hug you, who never answers your calls? Or a real live person who picks up the phone and actually talks to you, who goes to your bedside and holds you, who gets creative and productive in ways to break up the shadows of your day, who holds your hand through painful treatment and who will never, ever abandon you?
I always thought it was very telling that an all-powerful God needs us puny humans to defend his existence in the first place when he could do so easily himself (but chooses not to for some reason).
@@JustWasted3HoursHere " an all-powerful God needs us puny humans to defend his existence " right. Then when the puny humans rush in to defend him, he doesn't even bother showing up to help. 🙄
Yup and to back it up if one wanted to with the bible can use Genesis before the fall. Before 'the fall' each day says and it was good. Adam is made and god parades all the animals and then it says 'yet Adam was sad' so no it was not good lol. So even before the fall god couldn't meet all of Adams needs.
The irony is that the number 1 thing should make the number 2 thing. Jesus said to do things like that for one another, to serve one another, and to do good to others because we would do that for him by doing it for them. But people both Christians and Atheist and others are sometimes just focused on details insted of the essence
The one comment that made me sick to my stomach, and reassured me at the same time that it is NECESSARY to get rid of this scourge of humanity is this: "That cancer could be a wonderful opportunity to build character and integrity for that child." This is just absolutely... APPALLING and DISGUSTING. Please continue your fantastic work, Mindshift - I will do my part with my limited options. Keep on fighting.
Well yes, we get tired of silver linings when that's all we get, and no light to replace what had been blocked by the cloud. That's to be expected. I at least try not to be of the "no light to replace" crowd. Sometimes I succeed, sometimes I fail. But I hope I have at least sincerely endeavored to get the idea across. Begged questions after that are not my fault.
@@SeekingTheLoveThatGodMeans7648 There is no premise that justifies deliberate and unnecessary harm done by an omnipotent entity. Nobody is 'underselling' anything.
When I was 8 years old I had a brain tumor that was within millimeters of choking a main artery and killing me. Thankfully I made it to St. Jude and Le Bonheur Childrens Hospital (where st jude directed their brain surgeries at the time) in time. This experience ripped my religion out of me. I had been taught that I deserved what was happening and I cried and begged god to forgive me because I was a child. When I came out the other side unscathed I knew it was not a god that had saved me but my doctor and I thank him to this day.
Those people tend to blame people instead of looking inward. You didn't deserve what you went through, no one does. You were lucky to have a good doctor that was able to save your life.
I saw a meme on Facebook that showed a picture of jesus standing with some doctors doing a surgery and jesus is saying why are you removing the tumor thats part of my plan i just rolled my eyes and laughed
This shows the danger of theodicy in general - in that it encourages complacency or even worse, approval of said suffering in the world as being God's will or part of God's plan
Except God did, at his sacrifice on the Cross. This has been hackneyed and underestimated in practical references, but something that filled all space and time and all eternity on top of that happened "on Calvary."
@@SeekingTheLoveThatGodMeans7648 God giving up half of his weekend, is not much of a sacrifice for a supposedly eternal God. But even if I grant you that, you missed the point. I am not talking about that kind of responsibility, I am talking about taking responsibility forhis creation, the same way everyone would take responsibility for anything you create. Imagine I add poison to food, and leave it in my office's fridge. Then someone eats it and dies. Even if the other person shouldn't have eaten someone else's food, I am still responsible and should be in jail for murder. Likewise, you can say free will all you want, but that doesn't remove all agency and responsibility from God. If we are flawed by nature, that means we were made flawed, and we have no control over how we were made, the only one that supposedly has any power over that is God. So imagine a psychopath by birht, that means that something wrong in their brain si what makes this person the way he is. If this person commits immoral and even heinous acts because of his psychopathy, that wouldn't absolve him of any responsibility but that means that if a creator exists, then this cretor is responsible for why this person is the way he is and everything he does because of it. But Christians want to have their cake and eat it to.. they say God is all powerful adn knowing, perfect in every way.... yet he created an extremely imperfect world, and the only way to keep your cognitive dissonance is to blame it all on us, removing all responsibility for this made up God.
@@SeekingTheLoveThatGodMeans7648 Would you sacrifice your son to be crucified, no matter the reason? Or your daughter? Or your most beloved friend? Please...don't say yes. There's a name for that, & it's ugly.
If God is so powerful that he can create worlds, could he not also create a cure for cancer? And if/since he knows how to cure cancer, but withholds the information, doesn't that make him not a good being?
Believing that "god is all good" was a coping mechanism for me when I was a Christian. But now I have better coping mechanisms, and I could never go back.
It's a bunch of narcissism. This "god" punishes people and expects them to come crawling to it for help. Create the problem, offer the solution....loyalty for life.
If someone is arguing that "you shouldn't tell people that God doesn't exist because then they'll lose hope", they're not engaging with the question of whether God exists/is just or not.
They really mean they will lose this as a way to control others. If i can't threaten people with hell, how will i get them to do that i think is right?
They are technically correct. People will lose hope. But what they aren't considering is that the only reason that is the case is that those people were fed false hope to begin with, so taking that away is traumatizing. If, on the other hand, you don't indoctrinate people to believe that they can't have any hope unless a magical invisible man in the sky lets them play forever in his magic cloud palace, then learning that magical man is fake won't make them hopeless.
Why lose hope ? Don't they want to go to heaven ?? It's called the sweet release of death for a reason .... They want to be released from this flawed world
@@chameleonx9253For me it was the opposite. As a young adult I feared that I might not get into heaven because righteous enough. I started talking to ministers in my church and reading the Bible, and the more I read the more I feared the christian god. Until I decided to learn about the history of Christianity/Judaism and soon from history to archeological books I started to have doubts, until on day my hope my future returned because I was no longer convinced their was a hell or a heaven. I believe from all the evidence I have collected that all gods, so far that I have read about, are false and that this life is the only one we get. So being kind to others makes me feel good and keeps my circle filled with good people so I don't live in fear of my actions coming round to hurt me later. I treat others in a good and fair manner. Humanistic atheist and more hopeful, because all I am hoping for is to leave a loving memory behind for my children and grandchildren and for those I knew personally.😁
The hope they lose is false hope: but there are other sources of hope in the world. When I renounced Christianity I plunged into a moral void for a few years, but eventually I found another framework for my life. Departing from that false, toxic religion was one of the best things I ever did.
Very true and also negates the typical christian understanding that if you're not dead he's not done. I made a comment on the main page about the heaven v earth dilemma but I didn't add (until here) that that's another reason Christians praise when someone beats cancer cause that means God is still working in/using that person to be a witness to others. Maybe that person will be the next Billy Graham? We don't know
My daughter died of cancer at age 16. These are the things that I heard and continue to hear from people who think that they follow Christ's teachings. This is the main reason nobody in my family goes to church anymore. Christians can be the most insensitive people in this country.
So sorry to hear of your loss. People don’t know what to say when something so horrible happens, because there is nothing TO say. Nothing really makes it better. I hope your family has found a little more peace as time goes on. Grief is the hardest thing we can grapple with as human beings, IMO. ❤️🩹
The excuse that a god doesn’t give cancer but allows it is the same as an abusive parent who says they don’t make their kid malnourished they just allowed it by not feeding them. When people try to hold the abusive parent accountable the abusive parent defends themselves saying, “What did you expect? The child lives in a broken home.”
This is a good analogy. And if someone asks "Why did you as a parent not fix the broken home?" There's the response: "My home was perfect before the birth of my children. But if I intervene now, I am infringing on their free will. And most of the evil isn't my fault, it's because of the abusive babysitter that I allow to torment my children. However, I do intervene in 'mysterious ways' now and then just to remind them of their subordination and my superiority. You know, like a perfectly good parent does."
Thanks. The abusive parent could also say that their child was responsible for the broken home because they disobeyed one time and caused the whole situation. They could say that malnourishment is simply a byproduct of their disobedience.
@@SAMathlete Absolutely hilarious but this is exactly what the Judeo-Christian Islamic God is doing in justifying the evil and suffering in his realm. But then some pea brained religionist would just say "He's God, He can do anything, lean not on your own understanding" b. s.
Also, this god is supposed to be the ARBITER OF THE UNIVERSE. He could literally change anything whenever the hell he wants to, and knows all so...he could just stop the cancer if he wanted to lol.
Not really. God himself is very honest about it. He created all good and he created all evil. The bible is very clear on the matter. It's just that when they reach the second part of that sentence Christians go: "LALALALALALALALALALAL I CANT HEAR ANYTHING."
@@Jay-md6fk Jesus Christ. I wish you bible thumpers would stop thumping your bibles and actually start reading them. Isaiah 45:7. I form the light and create darkness. I make peace and CREATE EVIL. I do the lord do all these things. Your ignorance of your own holy text is shocking sometimes.
@@ThePanMan11You’re misunderstanding the concept of good and evil and how it applies to our world, theres always going to be good and evil, but what we decide, us humans with our free will, get let into the world is on us, if we chose to do evil, contrary to what God intends from us, then that would result in sin, the only reason evil is evil is because God set it as so, if your an athiest you should have no standard as to whats good or bad besides what ur desires are currently in that moment
@@Jay-md6fkyou if God created Everything, then HE CREATED EVERYTHING. Nothing exists without his approval……………even sin. It’s ok bro, just say “it’s love him or else.” But I wonder if someone told you to love them while they had a gun to your head, would you really love them??????
When my mother died, a Good Christian Woman told me that if my mother wasn't saved, she was burning in hell. I was eleven years old at the time. I wasn't raised in religion, so this disgusting sentiment didn't traumatize me as it might a child who was actually brainwashed to believe this evil stuff. But it did give me a contempt for religion (especially the fundamentalist kind) that has lasted me to this day, and I'm 63.
And let’s not forget the approximately 9 billion people in Christian hell simply because they had the bad luck to have been born and died before the biblical god finally got around to sending his son down to earth. Can’t go to heaven unless you accept Jesus as your savior, but those people all died before Jesus. So according to the Bible they suffer in eternity simply because god is a big time procrastinator.
You should look into the Orthodox Church. Our teaching on this is far more nuanced and mystical. We don’t know what happens to those who die. All we can know is who is the state of our own soul.
In this modern world with the promised presence of the spirit of Christ expressed from heaven, it's more difficult to "go to hell" than these misguided folks would have you think. Jesus, in his parable about the beggar and the rich man, seemed to imply that it took a conscious, drilled, unrepentant hardness of heart. And we have seen some people like that. We know of them today. Their ugliness even seems to bid fair to infest many, and we fairly pray that this will be curbed (along with taking actions to oppose it in every good way). But, I assert, both finalized goodness and finalized badness have an everlasting home, and both homes are willingly embraced beginning while on earth.
@@broddr And when he DID send Jesus finally, he sent him to the backwaters of Rome, so it would take centuries after that for the story of Jesus to spread out and people in the Americas or China to have the CHANCE of being forgiven for God being an asshole.
I am so sorry that happened to you. That term 'Good Christian Woman' does not apply to that woman, its just a old hag who told you that she was in hell. I left being Lutheran because of some of the older people and how they treated certain groups of people. I found comfort in being Wiccan but I am of the belief that each religion (Even Atheisms which is in itself its own belief) has their own good people. It's the bad ones that sadly scream the loudest and are the worst. I feel like its this BLACK and WHITE structure that people seem to be stuck in that has made these retched people vocal.
To those who left rude comments on the last video, ask yourself this ONE question: how much money did YOU raise last week to help children suffering from cancer?
I relate so much with this video. Though I don't have cancer, I have lupus (a chronic autoimmune disease) and as an adult, I was told I had a secret sin I hadn't confessed; that was the reason I wasn't healed. I was ashamed for about a second, then I thought how can I have a secret sin, I would know if I sinned!! I voiced this to everyone praying for my healing and walked away from the 'intervention'. After that, I was told I was being disciplined by God for not 'confessing' the 'secret' that I didn't even know about. That was the beginning of the end for me.
My uncle had an accident that fully severed his spinal cord in 2010. He left his evangelical church not due to the amount of people who kept laying hands on him without asking and trying to faith heal him (although he found it super annoying), he left because of the comments that his faith would heal him, and then when he stayed sick that he mustn’t have had strong faith. It was horrible. I can’t imagine what it’s like for a parent of a child with cancer being told these things. There’s no hate like Christian love.
That happens to churches that don’t know anything about the Book of Job or Jesus views mankind. “Bad things can only happen to bad people” isn’t a doctrine. It’s paganism.
I'm soooo confused by the indignant comments herein. You guys are ostensibly bitter at a Being you don't believe exists and took time out of your day to male sure others with a similar disbelief should know same. Please help me understand this.
@@Mansplainer452 Sure! Look up what an internal critique is. It's like us complaining about what a jerk Voldemort is. We're using the story god resides in to show why his character is ridiculous and IF it was real, would not be a good god according to his own book.
@ I think it’s sharing trauma, pain, and suffering. It helps to talk about these experiences and know you aren’t alone. You don’t have to be in this space if you don’t want to.
When my 40-yr-old cousin had terminal cancer, the minister who came to visit asked if he could pray for him. My cousin said, "If it makes you feel better." He knew what the real purpose was, even as he was dying. Loved that guy
I'm a disabled veteran who suffers from severe depression and anxiety. My two boys, Cunneda (Corgi) and Fenrir (Dachshund) are my main source of comfort. They are official companion dogs. I donate to my locale Humane Society. For Mindshift, I would recommend the American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals (ASPC A). There is a disturbing part of the Bible which relates to this cause. The only time dogs are mentioned in the Bible are in a negative way. Given this religion was founded by shepherds, I was flabbergasted when I discovered this. You could do a video on how anti-man's best friend the scripture is. Fenrir is as usual stretched out behind me in the chair as I type this. He was a rescue who was sent from a pound in Kentucky to a non-euthanize shelter in Michigan where I adopted him. I highly recommend adopting your pet dog or cat as there are so many in need of homes. And for those of you who want to get your kids a pet for Christmas, please don't just have the pet there on Christmas morning. Instead tell them next available day we'll go to the locale shelters and select a pet that is right for the family. The risk of being turned over to a pound is very high with a pet that hasn't been vetted by the whole family. I'll get off my pulpit now and enjoy another episode of Mindshift.
Dogs are terrific support. Glad you have them! I asked mine if it bothered them not having a soul. They just looked at me like I was spouting nonsense.
Wow, what a comment! Thanks for sharing and I'm personally really happy to hear about your two little fuzzy sausages. ❤️ That is a really really amazing video idea and I hope Brandon will see it and consider it. I've worked at animal shelters and I would also recommend Best Friends as a possible non-profit. They did a lot of "hands-on" work for our little municipal shelter drowning in the middle of nowhere and their shelter dog hotel is on my bucket list for sure! Anyways I wish the three of you nothing but happiness and belly rubs forever! (PS Incredible pet names! 🌟)
The "God does not give cancer/fallen world" excuse frames god as an abusive parent, shouting at their beaten child "look what you made me do". This utter lack of accountability is one of many godly traits commonly found in malignant narcissists, including a sense of entitlement, demanding absolute control, and needing to be the center of attention.
This is what you get when you posit no heavenly tomorrow. If we are willing to posit a heavenly tomorrow, then even a tragic life can be understood as a path of recovery from an existence of fallen soul fumbles. You have to choose one: freedom to think and choose and live in a world of soul investment according thereto, or an authoritarian deity before which even blinking would be a colossal deal.
@@SeekingTheLoveThatGodMeans7648 The "heavenly tomorrow" de-values and trivializes the earthly today. The notion that the messy business of life, with mistakes and unintended consequence, somehow indicates "fallen" is one of the greatest acts of victim-blaming ever perpetrated.
@@SeekingTheLoveThatGodMeans7648 why do people value "free will" so much that it justifies every single moment of suffering? And on top of that, to say that free will necessarily means that there will be suffering suggests that there will be suffering in heaven. You can't have your cake and eat it too
When I started reading and learning about narcissistic family dynamics and generational trauma it was a giant eye opener about how religion came to be.
@@NFITC1 There is actually! We can come up with a hypothesis about what the world would look like if the Christian god exists based off of the descriptions of the character in the holy text and then compare that to reality and then we go, oh, they aren't the same, so I've proved to myself (in a quick & dirty daily thinking kind of way) that this god isn't around. 👍
From the OT on to the NT, it is abundantly clear that it’s God who gives disease either as a curse, a punishment, or as a result of an unclean spirit that he created and has ultimately sovereignty over. How can Christians even debate this? Read your book! Thanks as always Brandon. Great job!
I totally agree. When I was a Christian for 30 years, I had so many excuses. I deceived myself, and I avoided to tackle this topic. Now, being an atheist and openly approaching this topic ... - it is soooo clear. I was so biased and deluded for decades 🫣🙄 I also like that Brandon speaks so openly!
God gives people leprosy, already knowing, and for the sole purpose of them making a ritual (that's different if you're rich or poor) to get rid of it in the bible How did people take this seriously even 2500 or so years ago? Like, this particular group of desert wanderers was extra stupid in their traditions even compared to other people from the same time, the indians were revolutionizing medicine and maths by that time
Or because Yahweh doesn't want to lose a bet or just to show off. lol. Or because he wants to inject suffering so people will be more likely to turn to religion since people turn to religion in hard times.
If "god" is in control he has a lousy way of showing it.Evidently, he likes to watch(Prov.15:3).There's lots of child sex trafficking(and pornogrphy) going on-but he doesn't even lift a holy finger to intervene or do anything about it.
The 1st response always confuses me because following that logic, abortion is the most moral and beautiful thing, and you should have lots of abortions.
Unwanted pregnancy is the reason for abn. Lack of proper sex education, inadequate birth control and parochial attitudes towards sex causes unwanted pregnancy. christians are the reason for abn!
While I see the issue, one could argue that if a child dies of cancer, it's God's will. If a woman has an abortion, she's circumventing God's will. But, one could still argue the aborted fetus would still go to Heaven, while the mother/doctor would go to Hell, thus making it a sacrifice.
It amazes me that God created EVERYTHING but EVERYTHING is not created by God. God is immortal but he died for our sins. He loved us but will torture us for eternity. He doesn’t interfere but he gives and takes away. Don’t know how Christians don’t get dizzy.
I hope this examples helps. I am a chirstian, I create life with my wife three Kids. I was not forced. I know they could die for múltiple reasons. But anyway I create those lifes. Is God's fault if tomorrow my Kids die in an accident or disease? Do you think that it will be fair to blame God for my decision. Do you think God should Stop me to do things like this?
@@diegodeleontanner7909, Does god know what is going to happen? Does god have the ability to prevent bad things from happening? If the answer is yes... then, under most criminal codes in the world... god is a criminal. Answer this question: Why do you worship a criminal?
@@diegodeleontanner7909 if god is all-powerful and in control of everything, it would be fault. And if your kid had an accident and survived, would you not thank/praise god for saving him
1. Not a very good pro-life argument, is it? Alex O’Connor in his last video with Ayaan Hirsi Ali made a little quip when talking about I think immigration policy that not agreeing with Jesus that we’re all just children of God and all should commune with each other etc. might be part of why he’s not a Christian. I think you could say the same thing even stronger about abortion considering not only the abortive verses in the Bible but also with how, seemingly, at least to some Christians, literally ending a baby’s life is somehow a golden ticket to heaven. 2. No, you can give them hope without lying. You can tell them that many very very smart and nice people are working every day to help you get better, and you can absolutely get through this, and mommy and daddy love you, etc. Honestly arguments like these make it more clear that in the modern day Christianity survives not on its own merit but out fear of the consequences of eventually abandoning it. At some point as a society we should try what I’m basically saying here, speak the truth and love, hope and wonder about what is real. 3. Us atheists didn’t rigidly define God as tri-omni, you theists did. An all-knowing and all-powerful God creates all things and knows all of the consequences of his creations and has the power to have created them infinitesimally differently, including creating that boy from the cancer video, just as he is, just without him getting cancer. Is that not possible of an all-knowing being? It’s not inherently contradictory like the “create a rock too big for himself to lift it” thing.
1. shows the rampant hypocrisy among them. A child dying early is good because it goes to heaven, but a child dying early is not good because that's a human and you should do everything in your power to keep it alive. Provided it isn't a mother dying from a failed pregnancy, those don't matter. There is no internal consistency in their arguments.
Even if something is inherently contradictory, it shouldn't matter. Tri-omni could just overwrite paradoxes and make them happen anyway. Or is a tri-omni weaker than the laws of logic? That's not a tri-omni then, that's just an everyday wizard.
@@apokalypthoapokalypsys9573 No, they can't do that, as it'd open a way worse rabbit hole and basically render any argumentation they'd bring null and void since logic doesn't apply to their god.
There are other reasons we wouldn't consider it ethical to gratuitously terminate a gestation, having to do with the prospective investment in the love of God of the life of the baby which would be born. But at least I do believe in triage (if the gestating child is clearly harming the mother's health, then we can treat that like any other case of credibly threatened or ongoing mayhem, up to and including "shedding its blood by man"). The soul's ultimate destination will depend on what attitude it is willing to take when the spirit of God approaches -- the same as if its body had lived on earth over a hundred years. There can be spiritual ways to sense this. I believe the biblical David did. There are things which people have freethinkingly proven the good of that they wouldn't want to leave. Clean air and clean water would be two of those things. A clean God is another such thing to me. There seems to me to be so much "dirty God" in the world, and the bible actually has names for such entities: antichrists, devils, demons, Satan. Concerning the final thing, experience, struggles, even ordeals on earth do have a purpose in preparing for final life off earth.
The Bible says, "no one knows the mind of God", but that doesn't stop theists from telling you all about Gods wishes, traits, goals & what he wants you to do with your life.
Brandon, I just LOVE what you are doing!!! Excellent, excellent idea to give us a way to help where we can! Thank you, from the bottom of my heart, for ALL of the work that you do. I cannot express how much you have helped my deconstruction process!
Giving someone cancer for"glory" is so nonsensical. You nailed it with your other video. In order to excuse these horrific things, you truly have to warp your mind beyond reckoning. Religion really can make people behave grossly. My own mom is a classic example, it's depressing because she's a great person, but her adherence to a strict, literal interpretation of the bible has made her anti science and capable of saying ridiculous or disgusting things in support of her religion. She quite literally thought that since I was a difficult child and that i was conceived out of wedlock that god sent me to punish her. I found that out accidentally, I remember the sickening feeling I felt, my own mother thinking that about me, as if I was just a punishment from god. That's the kind of f'd up stuff religion can do to a mind.
You are being an absalom right now. That guy’s line of path is to be the reign of reckoning against his father, David, after the sin of adultery and murder.
@@angusmcculloch6653 You think I mean that she ALWAYS behaves grossly? One thing, I never said that, there are certain things she says or does that I consider disgusting, things done in the name of her religion. You really think a good person can't also have abhorrent attributes while also exhibiting good ones?
@@justice8718 I guess you can't be bothered to clarify, I assume you're making a thinly veiled suggestion that I will die like Absolom? His name is capitalized, by the way. I really don't see the point of your comment other than to confuse and baffle.
it's crazy how Christians love claiming that God is sovereign & created everything, but completely removes his accountability for evil. If God is truly sovereign then *YES* he is absolutely responsible for cancer, as well as countless other diseases, he is literally in charge of *EVERYTHING* & he *CHOSE* to made unnecessary diseases.
Exactly. They could claim a limited god, or one who arrived to an existing world and has a moral objection to intervening, but an omnipotent, omniscient, omni-creator has no excuses.
If an engineer were to create something beautiful but also incredibly deadly and gross in some areas to a point where disease runs rampant, he'd lose his license, get hit with loads of fines, and basically be judged as a neglectful criminal for allowing such issues to exist and fester. But since god supposedly created essentially the same thing, christian's are praising him for it while overlooking said flaws. Blind bias at it's finest right there, folks.
God is good; they say... It"s hard not to be triggered by this. A buddy had a major motorcycle accident, and won"t be able to walk for months. Other's, lives were lost yet, damage and suffering for all involved, yet 30% of well wishes comments, praise god for being great. Wow!
That is sad to hear. And about the 30% well wishes with praising God... it must be cognitive dissonance on the side of the believers. I hope the doctors can help.
They don’t even make sense. In one sentence they thank God that somebody lived and then they turn around and say, well they (deceased) are in a better place now.
I’m in a church where 4 people have recently been diagnosed with cancer, including myself. I’m also on the church leadership team. Our response is ‘that sucks’. We don’t try to explain or rationalize. Instead the church has mobilized to care for all individuals in practical and caring ways. Meals made and delivered, lawns mowed, kids minded whilst mum undergoes chemotherapy. This is our culture, not empty platitudes and “I’ll be praying for you”. Most of our folk (again myself included) have experienced and disillusioned by exactly what you outline and are determined to be different and real. People and community are our heartbeat.
I'm sorry to hear, and I'm glad your community is doing that. In that terrible situation, that's the best response available. It does seem like an indication of not taking the religion's claims about the world very seriously, though.
0:16 That second response comes the *closest* to being valid, but here’s the problem: life isn’t a Disney movie. Life is a Don Bluth movie, in that it’s harsh and cruel, and while there’s certainly hope in the world, we shouldn’t expect it to automatically be granted to us just for existing.
I can have some respect for certain religious sects, like the Quakers (society of friends) of the “unprogrammed” variety. For one thing, 25 is the minimum age for making your decision to formally join the congregation. They are open and sociable with everyone. And a main tenet of their practice at their meetings is to just sit in silence. (This has become a minority practice. Most now have a program of service. But they still have some silence.) The onus on the person who decides to speak is to do so with absolute honesty and integrity from their first hand knowledge and belief. If someone feels moved to speak, others listen. If not, then they just sit in silence. Quakers are the one Abrahamic religion/sect where you find genuinely modest, decent people who seem normal, relaxed, nonjudgemental about those who don’t share their religion.
as for taking away hope from a child...as you say, Brandon, there are many ways of giving hope and comfort without god. Giving pretend hope through "god loves you," "pray and god will answer," "god is listening..." so when god doesn't come through, time after time, what does that do to a kid? The child won't even be able to trust the essential adults around him. He can become more and more devastated asking himself: did I not pray hard enough? Am I not deserving enough? How did I fail? Because god can't fail so it must be the child. You can only offer empty promises for so long before doubt sets in or even despair if the child blames themselves.
Totally agree... Also, kids tend to blame themselves when parents break up. They have a hard time thinking they didn't have a part in it, especially when they argue over you.
@@justice8718 I'd argue the one worthwhile thing in this physical world to invest in are relationships and connections with other people. Reason being is that it not just dramatically enhances and improves this worldly life in all sorts of countless ways (making it easier because more support, and more fun due to more friends), but also in that IF an afterlife exists, that implies possibly running into and dealing with everyone you've ever met in life, which means you'd have more time to spend with your loved ones and cherished connections. And even if there's nothing after for whatever reason, at least you can say that ya had a good time, and made a positive impact on those around you, which'll help you feel at ease and satisfied at the end. Of course, an afterlife existing also means that you'd run into all the people you might've potentially wronged or had bad experiences with, so the best possible advice is for life is essentially "be chill and friendly with others, as you don't also want to make eternal enemies!"
@justice8718 That's sick. People like you would set the world on fire and cackle as it burns so that you can pretend the prophesy of a primitive apocalyptic cult is unfolding during your little life, since you can't comprehend evidence based knowledge and fear social irrelevance. Nothing will change that fact when you die, the corpse of the ape you were will rot in the dirt like every other ape and sentient organism ever to live on this planet.
I was an orderly at a children's hospital, for four years. The hospital had a chapel, where parents could wish their children's illness away. As well as treatment, x-ray, operating, and recovery rooms, where reality was practiced. I can't recall one instance, where parents, especially the religious ones, brought their kids to the hospital, for prayer alone.
“Suppressing cancer cures as a means of poulation control Cancer. He said, “We can cure almost every cancer right now. Information is on file in the Rockefeller Institute, if it’s ever decided that it should be released. But consider-if people stop dying of cancer, how rapidly we would become overpopulated. You may as well die of cancer as something else.” Efforts at cancer treatment would be geared more toward comfort than toward cure. There was some statement ultimately the cancer cures which were being hidden in the Rockefeller Institute would come to light because independent researchers might bring them out, despite these efforts to suppress them. But at least for the time being, letting people die of cancer was a good thing to do because it would slow down the problem of overpopulation.” Quoted from an insider doctors speech, 1969
I am disgusted by the Christians who acknowledge their children are better off dead, that's the best thing that could happen, but then they proceed to do everything they can to prevent their children from dying! They obviously don't love their children, because actually loving their children means making sure they die. This also means they acknowledge that the poor boy from last video would have been better off if his parents hadn't forced treatments on him. In fact, there's a good chance he'll recover from cancer - the absolute cruelty of robbing what's BEST for his son, keeping him out of heaven, on top of making him suffer, and all on top of risking his soul going to Hell. Yet, I don't see these Christians attacking that boy's father for his cruel decision to prevent the cancer from killing his child!
Advertising crap is the same. If people don't like you, if you are sad, if you are having trouble...then try X.... our product will get rid of X and then people will like you, you will be happy, everything will go smoothly.
6:30 As a religious person myself, I'd feel much more hopeful if I was suffering from cancer and someone told me "hey, we've got these medications that are backed by research and these expert doctors etc etc" rather than "the gods will take care of you". I'd also feel pretty bummed if someone said to me that they don't actually have a fix "but maybe God will help me/welcome me in heaven", because they're essentially saying "You're officially fucked, let's wait for a miracle"
@@ThatGuy-1-1-1 Well, generally I'm a polytheist and I mainly worship the Greek gods for now, but I take aspects from many religions I come across, and I can't really tell exactly which idea comes from where honestly 😅. I take inspiration from Hinduism, Taoism, a bit of Wicca, Norse heathenry and hellenic polytheism (plus some residue from being taught Christianity from a young age probably), but I don't _strictly_ adhere to any one of those.
@@athenodorstorm Hmm that’s very interesting. I’m curious if you don’t mind me asking do you believe that these gods actually exist or do you view them more as ideas that guide your life.
@@ThatGuy-1-1-1 I believe they exist as spiritual entities. Also, I don't take the myths literally, so for example I don't believe Zeus literally raped women. I am aware that the myths are written by people and I think they should be interpreted considering this. I also don't really use myths to support my personal beliefs surrounding the gods
Logic and reason without faith lead straight to living being completely pointless and every living individual only being here because survival instincts force that result. The Sun will eventually get hot enough to sterilize Earth, then likely vaporize it, and all that has occurred on this rock will be erased forever. So why not all off ourselves? Because it causes others pain? Are you saying we need a lot more instruments and chemicals with which to end the misery of life for all of humanity cleanly before pursuing this goal? After all, “life is suffering”, “take up your cross”, yada yada. Or, as my son put it at five when told time seems to pass very slowly when we are suffering but very quickly when we are enjoying ourselves, “That isn’t fair!”. Indeed. So why bother? Why not just coordinate a day to all end it? It’s all pointless and accomplishes nothing in the end, anyway… 🤨
THANK YOU FOR BEING SO HONEST! MOST PEOPLE DON'T HAVE THE GUTS TO SAY OUT LOUD WHAT YOU SAID, MOST PEOPLE DON'T DARE TO GO THAT FAR BUT ITS THE DAMN TRUTH AND DEEP DOWN EVERYBODY KNOWS IT!! 💯💯☝🏾☝🏾 YOU ARE BLESSED FOR YOUR BOLD HONESTY 👍🏾👍🏾👍🏾👍🏾
I'm so glad to hear Christians are watching your videos, Brandon! They must be feeling a little rebellious. My pastor would have told me to steer clear of anything like the material you're trying to propagate. It's really good stuff - even for the fully deconverted.
Since becoming a father this year my questioning of Christianity has only increased. I would never want my family to suffer, I would give up everything for them to have the best life they can have. It’s a terrifying thought that “the Lord can give and the Lord can take away” and I better like it. It’s hard reading my Bible and knowing I don’t align with a lot it has to say. I prayed many times asking God to show me how I’m supposed to see the world and here I am still asking questions lol. I’m still newer on my deconstruction journey but I just want to say thank you for helping me feel like I’m not alone. I’m not trying to rebel against God, I’m just reading my Bible and asking “Why?” Take care.
Don’t resist his will to embrace your own will. That leads to your death. Lose your old will and inherit his will. Remember, your body, soul, and spirit is corrupted. Evil isn’t just need to be removed, it must be replaced by God, or else evil will sweep itself back inside.
You should be able to fully investigate all your questions, concerns, & doubts. If the god of whatever is actually true, it will easily withstand all scrutiny and stay unwaveringly true. Like a globe earth! Investigate to your heart's content, because it's true and will be true regardless of how you feel about it. Take care on your journey, where ever it may lead!
Thank you Brandon again for this video, I'm glad you are speaking out. That shows how blinded these people are, I'm ashamed to say that i probably would have said the same things. I'm so so happy I'm out of these stupid beliefs. I appreciate your channel so much and look forward to watching you. ❤❤
Obviously not exactly the same, but I experienced SA as a child. When I opened up to my pastor about it many years later, he implied I was SAd as a punishment for being conceived out of wedlock. That really is the thing that finalized losing my belief in God. I had already been ostracized from most of the church members for having a trans brother (and accepting him) and when I was told I had been so horribly hurt because God wanted to punish me for a choice I had no say in, it really struck me. How could a God that supposedly loves me unconditionally not only allow these things, but directly choose to do them? Not to mention the time everyone cheered in the pews when a stand in preacher proudly told the story of his son kicking out his child for being gay. If this God loves me, loves all his creations, then why would he hurt them so much? I rambled here but anyway, yeah
They hold their ears and squeeze their eyes shut, and yell "LALALALA" to keep from facing the truth. Proof that their adherence is emotional, not based on any facts whatsoever.
Believer: "God gives us hope that everything will turn out okay because he's in control" An atheist: "Actually, I am an atheist." Believer: "Who hurt you? Why are you angry at god?"
Honestly…as a previous four year old raised super Christian…I would have absolutely NOT have been comforted by my parents religion. It TERRIFIED me. I would have nightmares and panic attacks of myself or loved ones dying in hell. Or I pictured myself in heaven and I imagined it being like our church and thinking that would be so bad. 😮
THANK YOU for this video. I am Christian, and seeing people defending blind faith is ridiculous. I've been through too much to know that God doesn't interact in this world like most people think. The Bible is a historical book written by people who have also had their own biases. Put ANYTHING through a game of telephone for 3000 years and you'll get something completely different. Hence why there are so many versions of the Bible, modifications, books left out, etc. We have likely strayed away so far from the actual source, that the Bibles we read are very likely extremely different than what actually happened. God is something for everyone to discover and understand. I am still on that journey myself. Thank you for this video mate. Really opened my eyes to how some Christians can be
It is sad that people in 21st century are relying on goat herders' understanding of the world from 2000-6000 years ago. To me it is insane. So why are you still a christian?
Why do Christians care about abortion? Shouldn’t everyone be given a chance to live? Didn’t every one of us who wasn’t aborted, given the chance to live? ..
Yep. I watched two friends go through their first child being born with terminal cancer. I was a christian then and I buried this so deep that I have only remembered it today, a quarter of a century later. I couldn't rationalise it so I buried it and went on as though nothing had happened. Noone at the church ever mentioned it again. Isn't this god wonderful:/
...or a non-existant one. Humans are mammals, full of, surrounded by, and completely made of biology and chemicals. Animals get tons of diseases, we age, we have accidents, we fall victim to predators occasionally. We die, and our biological bits go back to the world, same as a cat or a bee or a copepod. It's what we've learned and tested and proven since the bronze age, so how about we leave the old 'making stuff up' thing behind?
I have been around those spaces as a non-believer. And it never touched me badly in my new life as a believer. There are children both blind, deaf, or deformed. And some of them had the strongest spirit for God that their books led the abled and disabled to him. There was a child born with no illness, only a purpose to serve God and wowed the Russians with signs and wonders, that was doomed to die early.
My wife's mother died of cancer when my wife was a child, not even ten years old. She is now well in her thirties and still grieves for her. That her dad died just a few years ago of cancer as well didn't make it any better. We are not religious, but I was as a child and even today I ask myself that if there is that god I once believed in, why would he kill good people and leave the most amazing person I've ever met traumatized and sad? That's not the reason I lost my faith (that reason is more or less that I couldn't find convincing evidence for any god or gods in my late teens, early twenties), but it is definitely one of the many reasons why I could never believe again.
I just found this channel and listened to a few older videos on my commute today. I just love the content and style. Had to park so I could subscribe!!
I grew up in a church that would always profess the power of prayer. I also would hear people say that God answers prayer by saying yes, no, or wait. And even as a kid within that world I would think to myself “how is prayer powerful if God is going to do what he wants anyway?” What good is it to call out when he will do whatever he wants in the situation no matter what we say to him? I’ve finally gotten to a place where I am heavily deconstructing and no longer trust the Bible at all. Figures.
“Suppressing cancer cures as a means of poulation control Cancer. He said, “We can cure almost every cancer right now. Information is on file in the Rockefeller Institute, if it’s ever decided that it should be released. But consider-if people stop dying of cancer, how rapidly we would become overpopulated. You may as well die of cancer as something else.” Efforts at cancer treatment would be geared more toward comfort than toward cure. There was some statement ultimately the cancer cures which were being hidden in the Rockefeller Institute would come to light because independent researchers might bring them out, despite these efforts to suppress them. But at least for the time being, letting people die of cancer was a good thing to do because it would slow down the problem of overpopulation.” Quoted from an insider doctor in a speech, 1969
Charity idea: Doctors Without Borders (MSF)! You've talked about kids who are suffering and barely heard the gospel in your Problem of Suffering video, so we could make sure those people get the care they deserve!
Your podcast was very well done and very logical. I admire your commitment to what you view as the truth. You are doing a very admirable job with St. Jude to support the kids with cancer. I have been a Christian for 53 years and served in many capacities in various churches and denominations. It was not until I retired that I began to read voluminous material about church history so that during the last ten years I have thrown out the Dogma of Hell and also the Dogma of Inerrancy. I’m still a Christian having seen through some of the horrible accretions to Orthodox Christian Tradition and I have not been received well or tolerated in fundamentalist circles. It has been a very lonely time sharing what I could with those whom I thought would be receptive. I believe it is the truth. I am much stronger as a Christian, more hopeful and now know what the Good News actually is. I am not a universalist but believe everyone will come before the judgment seat of Christ, and all who did not know Him, will know Him then. I believe God is a good God despite what some of the scriptures say which may or may not have come from Him. All of the bible is not God’s word, it contains God’s Word. I have not figured out why kids get cancer….I don’t blame God. I believe in His Goodness although He is not represented well on various occasions in especially the Old Testament whereby “Thus saith the Lord” sanctions Gods will to accomplish a terrible deed when it could be nothing more that the strong desires of a stiff-necked Israelite wanting to have his selfish way. All any of us can do is follow the Truth as we have worked hard for it. I choose to try and rebuild the old structure because at the core of it is good for all of us and it is something that you, Brandon, practice now, while others prefer to demolish all of it and start over. With only finite knowledge we will be disqualified to make that final judgment. Hopefully we are on the right path.
I appreciate that you are deconstructing, but how can you not know why kids get cancer? Have you not heard of genetics? Further, were there a god, why would you not blame it for cancer, as no cancer would exist, had it not created, *knowing* that it would, when a deity may choose not to create, correct?
Thank you for your work on this channel, Brandon! Take time for yourself to recover from the X-tian blow-back. These conversations are uncomfortable truths. We humans have created a toxic and cruel world. Many are hoping for divine intervention, either getting Hoovered up by Space Jesus or retirement in space Hawaii. This thinking enables apathy and disregard for our world. Accepting responsibility is harder. But if we face these problems we can address them. Be well!
If believers were consistent: God created everything therefore, God created cancer. I went to the funeral of a three year old leukemia victim in 1982, my youngest was the same age at time. It was the saddest experience of my life until 36 years later my own child died due to PTSD from being raped when she was 13. We tried so hard to keep her alive. 😢 No justice - no God. I support Ronald McDonald house who support the families of hospitalized children. Thanks for speaking the truth, Brandon. 😘
I'm so sorry for your loss. That's so awful. I know that it's possible to die from PTSD, especially from something as violating and humiliating as rape. I hope she was able to receive some comfort from her loved ones before she died. I'm sorry she couldn't make it through. The sad fact is, not everyone does, not everyone can. It's not true that "God doesn't give you anything you can't handle." Some things really are that bad. I hope you and your family have some sources of comfort and understanding.
Oh, my heart weeps for you & her. You're right, there is no justice and that's why we need community engagement to care for each other. No one is looking out for us, we are in this together. Sending you a virtual hug ❤
These foolish fanatics and zealots make me sick. If there is Divine, they slander it, if there is no Divine, they make objective reality, as bad as it is, even worse with their plague of ignorance, tribalism and self-righteousness. May the world be cleansed from these horrible ideas as soon as possible! May the humankind be freed from these blights upon its body!
@@BearMas 2 I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. 3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me. 4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. 5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; 6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments. 7 Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain. 8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. 12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee. 13 Thou shalt not kill. 14 Thou shalt not commit adultery. 15 Thou shalt not steal. 16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour. 17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's. 18 And all the people saw the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the noise of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking: and when the people saw it, they removed, and stood afar off. 19 And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die.
@@justice8718 Oh man, if all I gotta do is follow those, then I'm SET! I don't work on Sundays, I honor my father & mother by being an atheist like they were, and I honestly think my neighbor has really tacky taste. See you in Heaven, my guy!
@@justice8718 I'm going to guess that you would be st0ned to de8th if those commandments were implemented, and they aren't even the commandments referred to as the 10 in the bible. You don't keep the Feast of Weeks, Feast of Unleavened Bread, do you?
I keep coming back to the same issue, seeing it again and again. When confronted with a problem, a Christian, whether dedicated apologist or everyday churchgoer, will find something that solves the one and only problem they're currently looking at, and then wash their hands of the whole thing. Move onto the next question, do the same with that, move on again, until no one's asking them questions anymore. Atheism soundly defeated, Christianity protected. But their solutions always cause MORE problems. New contradictions between that new answer and other parts of the Bible or the belief system at large. New questions of "why would a loving being EVER do such a thing?!" And these new problems never seem to occur to the one who just brought them about. And when you drag their attention to it directly, like shoving an animal's nose in a mess it made, you once again get the same tactic of addressing that new problem in a vacuum, ignoring all other things that it breaks in the process, even if they end up breaking the original problem they'd JUST tried to solve. It's basically ubiquitous. Just about the only answers that don't do this are the ones that push the problem out of the realm of reality and into the territory of complete unfalsifiability, and that's its own huge problem. This inability to answer issues without causing more issues is just about the surest sign there could be that your belief system has errors in it. And considering how common it is in Christianity, the errors it has are numerous and all-encompassing. This religion, and indeed any religion, and indeed anything that isn't accurate to reality, simply cannot ever avoid this problem, because the only thing that will never produce these errors is THE capital-T Truth. If you're having these problems, it's time to start changing your views. Follow the path of least contradiction wherever it leads, and you'll very quickly find that the only belief system left standing is a rigorously scientific one. Which only makes sense, as the entire point of the scientific method is to permanently drop any belief that starts contradicting reality until such a time as all your beliefs are true. And of course to study reality closely to gain more raw data that we can use to prove more false beliefs false and get ever closer to true understanding of our world. It's a work in progress, and will be for centuries to come, but it has already long surpassed all other major systems of thought. So if you're rightfully torn about God's actions and how they fail to line up with God's character, then perhaps it's time to start looking somewhere new for answers. You may finally start to feel the intense joy of realization, when all that you know finally clicks neatly into place. It's a feeling that, in my experience, never gets old.
@@justice8718 Yep. It also makes it clear that God explicitly allows this to happen, regardless of the intensity of suffering caused by that evil, and even specifically wants credit for the bad things that happen to people every bit as much as the good things.
@@riluna3695 My biggest issue with unbelievers and their claims against God is how they don’t look at all on Jesus and how mankind treated him. Man plotted to kill him before he was ever born.
@@justice8718 I've never heard of that, myself, so it's hard for me to take a proper look at it. Where can I learn more about that? But as far as "unbelievers" are concerned, if Jesus was a true historical figure and he was killed for the crimes the Bible claims he was killed for, which I have no trouble whatsoever believing, then I absolutely condemn the actions of those who put him to death. I do not need to be religious to find the idea of hanging someone up to slowly die a painful death to be horrible and unethical. My atheism does nothing to push me to think that people who aren't atheists are in any way less than me or deserving of punishment. They are people who deserve to be treated like people, and if any atheist says otherwise I will fight them on that point. I can understand the simplicity of the idea that "a lot of unbelievers were cruel, so it's fair to assume they all are", but while it's easy to fall into generalizations like that, please give it more thought and let people show you who they really are, without coercing them into a preexisting box. Some Atheists are immoral, some are moral. Some Christians are immoral, some are moral. And in my experience, the moral ones in each group far outnumber the immoral ones. Most people just want everyone to get along. I know I do. And I know that will sound contradictory to you. I've spoken out against Christian beliefs, and against God's character as described in the Bible. I do truly believe that if God is as either the Bible claims or as most Christians I've met claims, then he is immoral and dangerous. And to you that may feel like I am attacking a friend, a parent, or some other important person in your life. But when I see people in abusive relationships with other humans, I want to rescue them from those relationships, even if they themselves are in love with the person hurting them. And a very similar thing happens with religious belief, where the belief itself can hurt a person in any number of ways. Even while some parts feel rewarding, and it may even feel more net-positive than net-negative, those negatives still remain. And the same is true of people currently being abused. The human mind will always try to make what's "normal" seem like what's "right", even when a person is in a VERY bad situation. It's a coping mechanism, not an indicator of the truth of the situation. So whether you understand it or not, whether you want it or not, my hope for you, and for all people trapped in religious thinking, is for you to one day find your way out of it and into a better life than you currently believe is even physically possible. And sometimes that requires me to be brutally honest about what kind of person God is. The Bible is very clear on this issue, whether you want to see it or not. I believe Christianity has a similar message: "Love the sinner, hate the sin", was it? That's my approach, wanting the best for all religious people, but finding religion as a concept abhorrent, for a staggering number of reasons. I believe it hurts people, whether they're in or out of that religion, and unlike Christian claims, I have the statistics to back up that belief. So there you go. That's my mission statement, why I do what I do. I'm showing as much of the nuance of my thoughts as I can, to hopefully show as clearly as possible how much I do NOT fit the stereotypes pastors preach about atheists, as well as just wanting you to understand my position in general. And if you want me to give my opinion on the notion of people trying to kill Jesus before he was ever born, I'm willing to do so if you share a source I can use to read up on the issue.
I'd like to recommend Big Brothers Big Sisters for a charity. I was put into the program when I was 6 years old. I don't think I'd be here or as good of a person without her. I'm 41 now and still talk to my Big Sis from the program. ❤️
You accepting donations for St Judes proves your actions are more genuine than most Christians I’ve ever encountered and I’ve been just as guilty. I’m still on the journey of deconstruction and it is so incredibly painful but your voice giving credence to what I’ve felt in the pit of my stomach all along has helped me face that fear. Thank you.
Straight-forward… If you think an existence consisting of instances of childhood cancer is MORE PERFECT than an existence consisting of nothing but a PERFECT creator God… then you KNOW that YOUR perfect creator God is LACKING in the quality of perfection. Literal childhood cancer is somehow a necessary component of perfection that your perfect God is missing unless He brings it about. Cognitive dissonance 101. Lying to kids with terminal cancer? Bearing false witness to your neighbor? That’s ABSOLUTELY moral under certain situations. When my Christian dad was unconscious and obviously on the verge of death and my mom and sisters were pleading to him to give up and end his/their suffering… I neither shared their sentiments NOR told him to embrace a lifeless nonexistence. He was on morphine and just hours prior was awake. He asked me, “Am I dying?” I cried as I told him “Yes.” He responded, “I don’t know why so feel so good.” He stayed awake and enjoyed… literally enjoyed… eating a simple bowl of soup. I cannot imagine a better reason to live. So when Dad was unconscious and apparently moments from death… I told him “Don’t listen to them womenfolk. You save your strength up for as long as you can… and when the time comes you use it all… you get in your car, punch it and peel out into heaven. Give ‘em something to remember you by when you get there!” I lied my ass off and have no guilt. If some literal miracle happened allowing him a will to live long enough to enjoy a few more bowls of soup… or even a pizza or prime rib or lobster tail… I’d feel an identical amount of guilt…ZERO. And lastly, an all-knowing perfect creator God DOES NOT have the excuse of saying “I had NO CLUE that my decision to create the world would bring about childhood cancer! How was I supposed to know that my perfect, infallible plans would result in something so horrible? Who do you think I am, God or something?” Yeah… that’s you, Christians. YOU don’t think your God is God.
Kid gets cancer, doesn't get cancer, dies from cancer, heals from cancer, it doesn't matter what happens, the Christians have already decided that god is the hero even when he's plainly the villain.
Great episode Brandon. Thank you. William Ln., Craig should be ashamed of himself for that comment. I’ve heard Swanberg give the same excuse just horrific.
1. Then why have them born to begin with? 2. There's always hope, but in the case of 'no' hope, yes. That's exactly what you say. Then you sit with them and learn to be brave together. 3. God created a world he knew would "fall"...and that took nothing more than for 2 people who by definition didn't know right from wrong to commit a "sin".
Morning all. Taking my daughter on a breakfast date. Be on to respond to comments later. Thanks for being here.
Enjoy your time and the breakfast Brandon!
Have a nice breakfast! On the topic of causes, have you considered doing a video on environmentalism and what it means to be a good steward? I'm wondering if there are any charities that re-naturalize or otherwise rehabilitate grass lawns and depleted farmlands.
Thank you for taking the time and effort to make these.
I absolutely love this 🥹 I never had a chance with my dad (he was unalived when I was 5). Please cherish the time you have with your baby girl!!! Breakfast date with your daughter is absolutely beautiful in case you didn’t know, you’re being an amazing father!😢Enjoy your week and Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family Brandon ✊🏽🫶🏽🦃
God could’ve created a world without temptation; Adam and Eve would never have had a problem.
You don't see faith healers working in hospitals for the same reason you don't see psychics winning the lottery.
I used to know a psychic and when I asked about the lottery she would say, "It doesn't work like that." Lol
"Faith healer" in no way equates to Christianity.
@@theol64 James 5:14-15 is right there
Even when I was a woo believer, I would joke that there shouldn’t need to be signs for a Psychic Fair, as everyone should already know where and when to meet.
@@theol64It is on the other side of the equals sign, ie, one of the things that add up to Xianity
My daughter got cancer in 2021, and we lost her in 2022 - she was only 21. I had been questioning Christianity for a while before that, but when she got cancer, and I saw the way my family and the church treated her (she had left religion a couple years before that), as if she deserved it - with no sympathy or kindness to her, because they believed she deserved it as a result of her "sin", it was the catalyst to leave Christianity for good. How can a god of love do something like that? How can people who profess to spread the love of their so-called god treat someone like that? It's true what they say, there's no hate like Christian love.
Rest easy, baby girl.
I’m so sorry for your loss and how they treated her. You’re right, there’s truly no hate like Christian love.
Thank you for sharing that.
@@gojub3173 ❤️ I wish atheists had a more present community sometime in situations like this. I'm sending you a virtual hug and RIP to your beautiful baby girl. You're a good parent and I'm sorry that you had to go through one of the worst things a parent can ever go through. It wasn't fair and it wasn't right.
I’m so sorry for your loss. Deconstruction is difficult enough, let alone under the conditions you were dealing with. May she rest easy and may you find peace.
Sad if it's true
"It's a blessing to get cancer. It's part of God's plan, but excuse me, now I have to go to chemotherapy".
I laugh at the whole "god doesn't give us any more than we can handle"......if that were true, we'd be able to heal ourselves of anything.
@@bronwentillman8385 Yukimiya ah quote
It's obviously the parent's sin right? Cite a bunch of idiocy from the Old Testament proving it. Does Star Trek have religions? I am wondering if the Klingon religion is real now. Why not, right? Stovokor is exactly analogous to Hell, except it is infinitely more believable. Then you could explain the cancer instantly as sins of the father. The parents of cancer victims must be hideous sinners, in their cartoon-logic infected mind.
@@bronwentillman8385
Since the beginnings of science-based medicine, humans have to handle much less compared to the days of bleeding, purging, etc. I guess the people before The Great Enlightenment must have been more sinful.
That's when I started to lose my faith
"That cancer could be a wonderful opportunity to build character and integrity for that child." Is one of the most HORRENDOUS things I have ever read in my entire life.
from experience I can ask this: what gives greater comfort to a child? Repeatedly calling out to an invisible, silent being you've never seen who never comes into your room to hug you, who never answers your calls? Or a real live person who picks up the phone and actually talks to you, who goes to your bedside and holds you, who gets creative and productive in ways to break up the shadows of your day, who holds your hand through painful treatment and who will never, ever abandon you?
I always thought it was very telling that an all-powerful God needs us puny humans to defend his existence in the first place when he could do so easily himself (but chooses not to for some reason).
@@JustWasted3HoursHere " an all-powerful God needs us puny humans to defend his existence " right. Then when the puny humans rush in to defend him, he doesn't even bother showing up to help. 🙄
Prayer is talking to the ceiling.
Yup and to back it up if one wanted to with the bible can use Genesis before the fall. Before 'the fall' each day says and it was good. Adam is made and god parades all the animals and then it says 'yet Adam was sad' so no it was not good lol. So even before the fall god couldn't meet all of Adams needs.
The irony is that the number 1 thing should make the number 2 thing.
Jesus said to do things like that for one another, to serve one another, and to do good to others because we would do that for him by doing it for them.
But people both Christians and Atheist and others are sometimes just focused on details insted of the essence
The one comment that made me sick to my stomach, and reassured me at the same time that it is NECESSARY to get rid of this scourge of humanity is this:
"That cancer could be a wonderful opportunity to build character and integrity for that child." This is just absolutely... APPALLING and DISGUSTING.
Please continue your fantastic work, Mindshift - I will do my part with my limited options. Keep on fighting.
Hugs through the internet !! Just being a great example of reason is doing one's part !!!
Well yes, we get tired of silver linings when that's all we get, and no light to replace what had been blocked by the cloud. That's to be expected. I at least try not to be of the "no light to replace" crowd. Sometimes I succeed, sometimes I fail. But I hope I have at least sincerely endeavored to get the idea across. Begged questions after that are not my fault.
@@onedaya_martian1238 Reason requires premises. All reason does. Don't undersell the necessary nature of premises.
Right, like that character development and integrity is gonna heal the ones that die at a very early age. Absolutely bonkers
@@SeekingTheLoveThatGodMeans7648 There is no premise that justifies deliberate and unnecessary harm done by an omnipotent entity.
Nobody is 'underselling' anything.
When I was 8 years old I had a brain tumor that was within millimeters of choking a main artery and killing me. Thankfully I made it to St. Jude and Le Bonheur Childrens Hospital (where st jude directed their brain surgeries at the time) in time. This experience ripped my religion out of me. I had been taught that I deserved what was happening and I cried and begged god to forgive me because I was a child. When I came out the other side unscathed I knew it was not a god that had saved me but my doctor and I thank him to this day.
Those people tend to blame people instead of looking inward. You didn't deserve what you went through, no one does. You were lucky to have a good doctor that was able to save your life.
"If your child is cured of cancer then are you now sad?" LOL! Good point. I didn't think about that.
Poor child did not get to go to heaven.
Nice one, Centurion.
Christianity is really messed up if you actually take it seriously
No of course not. Rather, even happier for the deliverance.
@@SeekingTheLoveThatGodMeans7648 Did you watch the video?
I saw a meme on Facebook that showed a picture of jesus standing with some doctors doing a surgery and jesus is saying why are you removing the tumor thats part of my plan i just rolled my eyes and laughed
I saw a meme where the surgeon was operating and he said, if they thank God for this I’m putting the tumor back.
Genius 😂
@@KAT-dg6el 😂😂😂😂😂😂 good one
Not to mention that they put type AMEN on it
This shows the danger of theodicy in general - in that it encourages complacency or even worse, approval of said suffering in the world as being God's will or part of God's plan
God is so powerful that he has the ability to create everything, but be responsible for none of it at the same time.
Except God did, at his sacrifice on the Cross. This has been hackneyed and underestimated in practical references, but something that filled all space and time and all eternity on top of that happened "on Calvary."
@@SeekingTheLoveThatGodMeans7648 God giving up half of his weekend, is not much of a sacrifice for a supposedly eternal God.
But even if I grant you that, you missed the point. I am not talking about that kind of responsibility, I am talking about taking responsibility forhis creation, the same way everyone would take responsibility for anything you create. Imagine I add poison to food, and leave it in my office's fridge. Then someone eats it and dies. Even if the other person shouldn't have eaten someone else's food, I am still responsible and should be in jail for murder.
Likewise, you can say free will all you want, but that doesn't remove all agency and responsibility from God. If we are flawed by nature, that means we were made flawed, and we have no control over how we were made, the only one that supposedly has any power over that is God.
So imagine a psychopath by birht, that means that something wrong in their brain si what makes this person the way he is. If this person commits immoral and even heinous acts because of his psychopathy, that wouldn't absolve him of any responsibility but that means that if a creator exists, then this cretor is responsible for why this person is the way he is and everything he does because of it.
But Christians want to have their cake and eat it to.. they say God is all powerful adn knowing, perfect in every way.... yet he created an extremely imperfect world, and the only way to keep your cognitive dissonance is to blame it all on us, removing all responsibility for this made up God.
@@SeekingTheLoveThatGodMeans7648 Would you sacrifice your son to be crucified, no matter the reason? Or your daughter? Or your most beloved friend?
Please...don't say yes. There's a name for that, & it's ugly.
@@farrex0Great explanation of the "free will" fallacy.
If God is so powerful that he can create worlds, could he not also create a cure for cancer? And if/since he knows how to cure cancer, but withholds the information, doesn't that make him not a good being?
Believing that "god is all good" was a coping mechanism for me when I was a Christian. But now I have better coping mechanisms, and I could never go back.
Well said 👌🏻
It's a bunch of narcissism. This "god" punishes people and expects them to come crawling to it for help. Create the problem, offer the solution....loyalty for life.
I feel that
Boy, God has a far more horrific judgement for you.
@@bronwentillman8385fax
If someone is arguing that "you shouldn't tell people that God doesn't exist because then they'll lose hope", they're not engaging with the question of whether God exists/is just or not.
They really mean they will lose this as a way to control others. If i can't threaten people with hell, how will i get them to do that i think is right?
They are technically correct. People will lose hope. But what they aren't considering is that the only reason that is the case is that those people were fed false hope to begin with, so taking that away is traumatizing.
If, on the other hand, you don't indoctrinate people to believe that they can't have any hope unless a magical invisible man in the sky lets them play forever in his magic cloud palace, then learning that magical man is fake won't make them hopeless.
Why lose hope ? Don't they want to go to heaven ?? It's called the sweet release of death for a reason .... They want to be released from this flawed world
@@chameleonx9253For me it was the opposite. As a young adult I feared that I might not get into heaven because righteous enough.
I started talking to ministers in my church and reading the Bible, and the more I read the more I feared the christian god. Until I decided to learn about the history of Christianity/Judaism and soon from history to archeological books I started to have doubts, until on day my hope my future returned because I was no longer convinced their was a hell or a heaven. I believe from all the evidence I have collected that all gods, so far that I have read about, are false and that this life is the only one we get. So being kind to others makes me feel good and keeps my circle filled with good people so I don't live in fear of my actions coming round to hurt me later. I treat others in a good and fair manner.
Humanistic atheist and more hopeful, because all I am hoping for is to leave a loving memory behind for my children and grandchildren and for those I knew personally.😁
The hope they lose is false hope: but there are other sources of hope in the world. When I renounced Christianity I plunged into a moral void for a few years, but eventually I found another framework for my life. Departing from that false, toxic religion was one of the best things I ever did.
Anyone who believes that it’s better for a child to die young to get to heaven fast, is completely untethered from reality.
Yeah that's acting like the parent's grief doesn't matter which is so sad to me
And morally bankrupt.
Also, they claim that fetuses are children but we have to save all of them, not let them get to heaven early.
I don't want to give them ideas, but it's not hard to follow that thought to justify horrific actions...
Very true and also negates the typical christian understanding that if you're not dead he's not done. I made a comment on the main page about the heaven v earth dilemma but I didn't add (until here) that that's another reason Christians praise when someone beats cancer cause that means God is still working in/using that person to be a witness to others. Maybe that person will be the next Billy Graham? We don't know
My daughter died of cancer at age 16. These are the things that I heard and continue to hear from people who think that they follow Christ's teachings. This is the main reason nobody in my family goes to church anymore. Christians can be the most insensitive people in this country.
So sorry to hear of your loss. People don’t know what to say when something so horrible happens, because there is nothing TO say. Nothing really makes it better. I hope your family has found a little more peace as time goes on. Grief is the hardest thing we can grapple with as human beings, IMO. ❤️🩹
There is no hate like Christian love
The excuse that a god doesn’t give cancer but allows it is the same as an abusive parent who says they don’t make their kid malnourished they just allowed it by not feeding them. When people try to hold the abusive parent accountable the abusive parent defends themselves saying, “What did you expect? The child lives in a broken home.”
This is a good analogy. And if someone asks "Why did you as a parent not fix the broken home?" There's the response: "My home was perfect before the birth of my children. But if I intervene now, I am infringing on their free will. And most of the evil isn't my fault, it's because of the abusive babysitter that I allow to torment my children. However, I do intervene in 'mysterious ways' now and then just to remind them of their subordination and my superiority. You know, like a perfectly good parent does."
Thanks. The abusive parent could also say that their child was responsible for the broken home because they disobeyed one time and caused the whole situation. They could say that malnourishment is simply a byproduct of their disobedience.
@@SAMathlete Absolutely hilarious but this is exactly what the Judeo-Christian Islamic God is doing in justifying the evil and suffering in his realm. But then some pea brained religionist would just say "He's God, He can do anything, lean not on your own understanding" b. s.
Also, this god is supposed to be the ARBITER OF THE UNIVERSE. He could literally change anything whenever the hell he wants to, and knows all so...he could just stop the cancer if he wanted to lol.
I shouldn't laugh but this made me lol a lil, x'D
I agree tho
Taking all the credit but none of the blame is god's best super power.
Not really. God himself is very honest about it. He created all good and he created all evil. The bible is very clear on the matter.
It's just that when they reach the second part of that sentence Christians go: "LALALALALALALALALALAL I CANT HEAR ANYTHING."
@@ThePanMan11God did not create evil. Evil is the result of disobeying God.
@@Jay-md6fk Jesus Christ. I wish you bible thumpers would stop thumping your bibles and actually start reading them.
Isaiah 45:7. I form the light and create darkness. I make peace and CREATE EVIL. I do the lord do all these things.
Your ignorance of your own holy text is shocking sometimes.
@@ThePanMan11You’re misunderstanding the concept of good and evil and how it applies to our world, theres always going to be good and evil, but what we decide, us humans with our free will, get let into the world is on us, if we chose to do evil, contrary to what God intends from us, then that would result in sin, the only reason evil is evil is because God set it as so, if your an athiest you should have no standard as to whats good or bad besides what ur desires are currently in that moment
@@Jay-md6fkyou if God created Everything, then HE CREATED EVERYTHING. Nothing exists without his approval……………even sin. It’s ok bro, just say “it’s love him or else.” But I wonder if someone told you to love them while they had a gun to your head, would you really love them??????
When my mother died, a Good Christian Woman told me that if my mother wasn't saved, she was burning in hell. I was eleven years old at the time. I wasn't raised in religion, so this disgusting sentiment didn't traumatize me as it might a child who was actually brainwashed to believe this evil stuff. But it did give me a contempt for religion (especially the fundamentalist kind) that has lasted me to this day, and I'm 63.
And let’s not forget the approximately 9 billion people in Christian hell simply because they had the bad luck to have been born and died before the biblical god finally got around to sending his son down to earth. Can’t go to heaven unless you accept Jesus as your savior, but those people all died before Jesus. So according to the Bible they suffer in eternity simply because god is a big time procrastinator.
You should look into the Orthodox Church. Our teaching on this is far more nuanced and mystical. We don’t know what happens to those who die. All we can know is who is the state of our own soul.
In this modern world with the promised presence of the spirit of Christ expressed from heaven, it's more difficult to "go to hell" than these misguided folks would have you think. Jesus, in his parable about the beggar and the rich man, seemed to imply that it took a conscious, drilled, unrepentant hardness of heart. And we have seen some people like that. We know of them today. Their ugliness even seems to bid fair to infest many, and we fairly pray that this will be curbed (along with taking actions to oppose it in every good way).
But, I assert, both finalized goodness and finalized badness have an everlasting home, and both homes are willingly embraced beginning while on earth.
@@broddr And when he DID send Jesus finally, he sent him to the backwaters of Rome, so it would take centuries after that for the story of Jesus to spread out and people in the Americas or China to have the CHANCE of being forgiven for God being an asshole.
I am so sorry that happened to you. That term 'Good Christian Woman' does not apply to that woman, its just a old hag who told you that she was in hell. I left being Lutheran because of some of the older people and how they treated certain groups of people. I found comfort in being Wiccan but I am of the belief that each religion (Even Atheisms which is in itself its own belief) has their own good people. It's the bad ones that sadly scream the loudest and are the worst. I feel like its this BLACK and WHITE structure that people seem to be stuck in that has made these retched people vocal.
To those who left rude comments on the last video, ask yourself this ONE question: how much money did YOU raise last week to help children suffering from cancer?
What do you mean by "rude" comments? Are you talking to christians or atheists?
Some people are also going through tough times and believe that blaming it on God is the ultimate 'cop-out'.
@@Childfree334 the comments displayed at the end of this video
They don't care because they think it's God's plan, what need is there to raise money...
They pray thinking that they’re doing something.
I relate so much with this video. Though I don't have cancer, I have lupus (a chronic autoimmune disease) and as an adult, I was told I had a secret sin I hadn't confessed; that was the reason I wasn't healed. I was ashamed for about a second, then I thought how can I have a secret sin, I would know if I sinned!! I voiced this to everyone praying for my healing and walked away from the 'intervention'. After that, I was told I was being disciplined by God for not 'confessing' the 'secret' that I didn't even know about. That was the beginning of the end for me.
👏 They couldn't force you to bend the knee when you knew what they were telling you was wrong. That's so courageous of you!
Nice job failing the Job test.
Sorry to hear about your suffering and how you were treated. Glad you figured it out!
@@monicabenjamin328 sadly, that's what lots of fundamentalist churches do... they have to keep you full of guilt and fear
@@CommonSense_Skepticyeah, I hate that so much
My uncle had an accident that fully severed his spinal cord in 2010. He left his evangelical church not due to the amount of people who kept laying hands on him without asking and trying to faith heal him (although he found it super annoying), he left because of the comments that his faith would heal him, and then when he stayed sick that he mustn’t have had strong faith. It was horrible.
I can’t imagine what it’s like for a parent of a child with cancer being told these things. There’s no hate like Christian love.
That happens to churches that don’t know anything about the Book of Job or Jesus views mankind.
“Bad things can only happen to bad people” isn’t a doctrine. It’s paganism.
@@justice8718 You don't get much more pagan that barbaric Bronze Age Blood Sacrifice Magic.
I'm soooo confused by the indignant comments herein. You guys are ostensibly bitter at a Being you don't believe exists and took time out of your day to male sure others with a similar disbelief should know same. Please help me understand this.
@@Mansplainer452 Sure! Look up what an internal critique is. It's like us complaining about what a jerk Voldemort is. We're using the story god resides in to show why his character is ridiculous and IF it was real, would not be a good god according to his own book.
@ I think it’s sharing trauma, pain, and suffering. It helps to talk about these experiences and know you aren’t alone. You don’t have to be in this space if you don’t want to.
When my 40-yr-old cousin had terminal cancer, the minister who came to visit asked if he could pray for him. My cousin said, "If it makes you feel better." He knew what the real purpose was, even as he was dying. Loved that guy
Both benefit when it's sincere.
@@SeekingTheLoveThatGodMeans7648 but the problem is knowing if either are sincere...anyone can claim to be "sincere"...but are they?
Only the person themselves know.
@@SeekingTheLoveThatGodMeans7648 you’re a child molester
@@SeekingTheLoveThatGodMeans7648 I keep seeing you replying to comments on this video, what are you even trying to accomplish.
I'm a disabled veteran who suffers from severe depression and anxiety. My two boys, Cunneda (Corgi) and Fenrir (Dachshund) are my main source of comfort. They are official companion dogs. I donate to my locale Humane Society. For Mindshift, I would recommend the American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals (ASPC A). There is a disturbing part of the Bible which relates to this cause. The only time dogs are mentioned in the Bible are in a negative way. Given this religion was founded by shepherds, I was flabbergasted when I discovered this. You could do a video on how anti-man's best friend the scripture is. Fenrir is as usual stretched out behind me in the chair as I type this. He was a rescue who was sent from a pound in Kentucky to a non-euthanize shelter in Michigan where I adopted him. I highly recommend adopting your pet dog or cat as there are so many in need of homes. And for those of you who want to get your kids a pet for Christmas, please don't just have the pet there on Christmas morning. Instead tell them next available day we'll go to the locale shelters and select a pet that is right for the family. The risk of being turned over to a pound is very high with a pet that hasn't been vetted by the whole family. I'll get off my pulpit now and enjoy another episode of Mindshift.
Dogs are terrific support. Glad you have them! I asked mine if it bothered them not having a soul. They just looked at me like I was spouting nonsense.
Wow, what a comment! Thanks for sharing and I'm personally really happy to hear about your two little fuzzy sausages. ❤️ That is a really really amazing video idea and I hope Brandon will see it and consider it. I've worked at animal shelters and I would also recommend Best Friends as a possible non-profit. They did a lot of "hands-on" work for our little municipal shelter drowning in the middle of nowhere and their shelter dog hotel is on my bucket list for sure! Anyways I wish the three of you nothing but happiness and belly rubs forever!
(PS Incredible pet names! 🌟)
@@maggienewton8518 I don't want to go a Heaven that doesn't allow fur babies.
@@childlessdoggentleman746 same here. That always tore me up when I was a kid.
@@childlessdoggentleman746Right, if anyone deserves heaven it's the dogs and cats they're the most innocent
The "God does not give cancer/fallen world" excuse frames god as an abusive parent, shouting at their beaten child "look what you made me do". This utter lack of accountability is one of many godly traits commonly found in malignant narcissists, including a sense of entitlement, demanding absolute control, and needing to be the center of attention.
This is what you get when you posit no heavenly tomorrow. If we are willing to posit a heavenly tomorrow, then even a tragic life can be understood as a path of recovery from an existence of fallen soul fumbles.
You have to choose one: freedom to think and choose and live in a world of soul investment according thereto, or an authoritarian deity before which even blinking would be a colossal deal.
@@SeekingTheLoveThatGodMeans7648 The "heavenly tomorrow" de-values and trivializes the earthly today. The notion that the messy business of life, with mistakes and unintended consequence, somehow indicates "fallen" is one of the greatest acts of victim-blaming ever perpetrated.
@@SeekingTheLoveThatGodMeans7648
Do we need to do special-dont tell-your-parents-sleepover-semen-baptism with the priest like you did?
@@SeekingTheLoveThatGodMeans7648 why do people value "free will" so much that it justifies every single moment of suffering?
And on top of that, to say that free will necessarily means that there will be suffering suggests that there will be suffering in heaven.
You can't have your cake and eat it too
When I started reading and learning about narcissistic family dynamics and generational trauma it was a giant eye opener about how religion came to be.
One thing is absolutely certain: god doesn't prevent cancer in children
If there is a God they don't care or can't do anything about anything.
Does he not want to, does he can't do it, does he not real, and most importantly, in any of the 3 case is he worthy of worship?
You can't prove that. There is no test for such a statement.
@@NFITC1 There is actually! We can come up with a hypothesis about what the world would look like if the Christian god exists based off of the descriptions of the character in the holy text and then compare that to reality and then we go, oh, they aren't the same, so I've proved to myself (in a quick & dirty daily thinking kind of way) that this god isn't around. 👍
@NFITC1 cancer in children definitely exists. Hence..?
From the OT on to the NT, it is abundantly clear that it’s God who gives disease either as a curse, a punishment, or as a result of an unclean spirit that he created and has ultimately sovereignty over. How can Christians even debate this? Read your book! Thanks as always Brandon. Great job!
I totally agree. When I was a Christian for 30 years, I had so many excuses. I deceived myself, and I avoided to tackle this topic.
Now, being an atheist and openly approaching this topic ... - it is soooo clear. I was so biased and deluded for decades 🫣🙄
I also like that Brandon speaks so openly!
God gives people leprosy, already knowing, and for the sole purpose of them making a ritual (that's different if you're rich or poor) to get rid of it in the bible
How did people take this seriously even 2500 or so years ago? Like, this particular group of desert wanderers was extra stupid in their traditions even compared to other people from the same time, the indians were revolutionizing medicine and maths by that time
They listen to their preachers, not read the Bible. And if they do read the Bible, they only read the parts they like.
Or because Yahweh doesn't want to lose a bet or just to show off. lol. Or because he wants to inject suffering so people will be more likely to turn to religion since people turn to religion in hard times.
If "god" is in control he has a lousy way of showing it.Evidently, he likes to watch(Prov.15:3).There's lots of child sex trafficking(and pornogrphy) going on-but he doesn't even lift a holy finger to intervene or do anything about it.
The 1st response always confuses me because following that logic, abortion is the most moral and beautiful thing, and you should have lots of abortions.
No kidding. Like that is a species-ending belief, if Christians actually believed it outside of the makeshift apologetic.
@AdamKlownzinger it's some family annihilator justification shit fr
Unwanted pregnancy is the reason for abn. Lack of proper sex education, inadequate birth control and parochial attitudes towards sex causes unwanted pregnancy. christians are the reason for abn!
While I see the issue, one could argue that if a child dies of cancer, it's God's will. If a woman has an abortion, she's circumventing God's will. But, one could still argue the aborted fetus would still go to Heaven, while the mother/doctor would go to Hell, thus making it a sacrifice.
@@GoeTeeks the mom could just repent, right? and everything is good?
It amazes me that God created EVERYTHING but EVERYTHING is not created by God.
God is immortal but he died for our sins.
He loved us but will torture us for eternity.
He doesn’t interfere but he gives and takes away.
Don’t know how Christians don’t get dizzy.
Are you sure they don't? That would explain the circular logic of so many apologists!
It's a contradiction at every turn
I hope this examples helps. I am a chirstian, I create life with my wife three Kids. I was not forced. I know they could die for múltiple reasons. But anyway I create those lifes. Is God's fault if tomorrow my Kids die in an accident or disease? Do you think that it will be fair to blame God for my decision. Do you think God should Stop me to do things like this?
@@diegodeleontanner7909,
Does god know what is going to happen?
Does god have the ability to prevent bad things from happening?
If the answer is yes... then, under most criminal codes in the world... god is a criminal.
Answer this question:
Why do you worship a criminal?
@@diegodeleontanner7909 if god is all-powerful and in control of everything, it would be fault. And if your kid had an accident and survived, would you not thank/praise god for saving him
1. Not a very good pro-life argument, is it? Alex O’Connor in his last video with Ayaan Hirsi Ali made a little quip when talking about I think immigration policy that not agreeing with Jesus that we’re all just children of God and all should commune with each other etc. might be part of why he’s not a Christian. I think you could say the same thing even stronger about abortion considering not only the abortive verses in the Bible but also with how, seemingly, at least to some Christians, literally ending a baby’s life is somehow a golden ticket to heaven.
2. No, you can give them hope without lying. You can tell them that many very very smart and nice people are working every day to help you get better, and you can absolutely get through this, and mommy and daddy love you, etc. Honestly arguments like these make it more clear that in the modern day Christianity survives not on its own merit but out fear of the consequences of eventually abandoning it. At some point as a society we should try what I’m basically saying here, speak the truth and love, hope and wonder about what is real.
3. Us atheists didn’t rigidly define God as tri-omni, you theists did. An all-knowing and all-powerful God creates all things and knows all of the consequences of his creations and has the power to have created them infinitesimally differently, including creating that boy from the cancer video, just as he is, just without him getting cancer. Is that not possible of an all-knowing being? It’s not inherently contradictory like the “create a rock too big for himself to lift it” thing.
One cannot be a Christian if one is intellectually honest. Definitely not an American style Christian.
1. shows the rampant hypocrisy among them. A child dying early is good because it goes to heaven, but a child dying early is not good because that's a human and you should do everything in your power to keep it alive. Provided it isn't a mother dying from a failed pregnancy, those don't matter.
There is no internal consistency in their arguments.
Even if something is inherently contradictory, it shouldn't matter. Tri-omni could just overwrite paradoxes and make them happen anyway. Or is a tri-omni weaker than the laws of logic? That's not a tri-omni then, that's just an everyday wizard.
@@apokalypthoapokalypsys9573 No, they can't do that, as it'd open a way worse rabbit hole and basically render any argumentation they'd bring null and void since logic doesn't apply to their god.
There are other reasons we wouldn't consider it ethical to gratuitously terminate a gestation, having to do with the prospective investment in the love of God of the life of the baby which would be born. But at least I do believe in triage (if the gestating child is clearly harming the mother's health, then we can treat that like any other case of credibly threatened or ongoing mayhem, up to and including "shedding its blood by man").
The soul's ultimate destination will depend on what attitude it is willing to take when the spirit of God approaches -- the same as if its body had lived on earth over a hundred years. There can be spiritual ways to sense this. I believe the biblical David did.
There are things which people have freethinkingly proven the good of that they wouldn't want to leave. Clean air and clean water would be two of those things. A clean God is another such thing to me. There seems to me to be so much "dirty God" in the world, and the bible actually has names for such entities: antichrists, devils, demons, Satan.
Concerning the final thing, experience, struggles, even ordeals on earth do have a purpose in preparing for final life off earth.
The Bible says, "no one knows the mind of God", but that doesn't stop theists from telling you all about Gods wishes, traits, goals & what he wants you to do with your life.
It's a plan
@kendallsmith1458 I don't think you got it.
Brandon, I just LOVE what you are doing!!! Excellent, excellent idea to give us a way to help where we can! Thank you, from the bottom of my heart, for ALL of the work that you do. I cannot express how much you have helped my deconstruction process!
Giving someone cancer for"glory" is so nonsensical. You nailed it with your other video. In order to excuse these horrific things, you truly have to warp your mind beyond reckoning. Religion really can make people behave grossly. My own mom is a classic example, it's depressing because she's a great person, but her adherence to a strict, literal interpretation of the bible has made her anti science and capable of saying ridiculous or disgusting things in support of her religion. She quite literally thought that since I was a difficult child and that i was conceived out of wedlock that god sent me to punish her. I found that out accidentally, I remember the sickening feeling I felt, my own mother thinking that about me, as if I was just a punishment from god. That's the kind of f'd up stuff religion can do to a mind.
You are being an absalom right now. That guy’s line of path is to be the reign of reckoning against his father, David, after the sin of adultery and murder.
@justice8718 Can you explain your point more clearly?
How can your mother be a great person if she's "behaving grossly"?
@@angusmcculloch6653 You think I mean that she ALWAYS behaves grossly? One thing, I never said that, there are certain things she says or does that I consider disgusting, things done in the name of her religion. You really think a good person can't also have abhorrent attributes while also exhibiting good ones?
@@justice8718 I guess you can't be bothered to clarify, I assume you're making a thinly veiled suggestion that I will die like Absolom? His name is capitalized, by the way. I really don't see the point of your comment other than to confuse and baffle.
it's crazy how Christians love claiming that God is sovereign & created everything, but completely removes his accountability for evil. If God is truly sovereign then *YES* he is absolutely responsible for cancer, as well as countless other diseases, he is literally in charge of *EVERYTHING* & he *CHOSE* to made unnecessary diseases.
Yep, God made x. X kills kids. Not God responsiblity for X, he is simple to powerful.
Exactly. They could claim a limited god, or one who arrived to an existing world and has a moral objection to intervening, but an omnipotent, omniscient, omni-creator has no excuses.
With great power comes great responsibility.
With ALL power comes ALL responsibility
@crazyprayingmantis5596 exactly!
If an engineer were to create something beautiful but also incredibly deadly and gross in some areas to a point where disease runs rampant, he'd lose his license, get hit with loads of fines, and basically be judged as a neglectful criminal for allowing such issues to exist and fester.
But since god supposedly created essentially the same thing, christian's are praising him for it while overlooking said flaws.
Blind bias at it's finest right there, folks.
Sorry to hear that you are under the weather, hope you feel better soon. Thank you for another great video. Keep it up. You are awesome
If I might be so bold: God bless him to future restored health and fortunes and vigor.
@@SeekingTheLoveThatGodMeans7648 be bold and presumptuous all you like, i wonder how god feels about you telling him who to bless and what to do...
God is good; they say... It"s hard not to be triggered by this.
A buddy had a major motorcycle accident, and won"t be able to walk for months. Other's, lives were lost yet, damage and suffering for all involved, yet 30% of well wishes comments, praise god for being great. Wow!
@@SCP-SAM yes, same mentality when a bus crashes and kills 43 people, but praise the Lord for the little girl that survived. 🙄
That is sad to hear.
And about the 30% well wishes with praising God... it must be cognitive dissonance on the side of the believers.
I hope the doctors can help.
@@CatDaddyGuitar What about the other 43 people that died? Where are their miracles?
@bachiralikesglmanga exactly
They don’t even make sense. In one sentence they thank God that somebody lived and then they turn around and say, well they (deceased) are in a better place now.
It's pretty simple really.
God created everything.
Cancer is a part of everything.
God created cancer.
I’m in a church where 4 people have recently been diagnosed with cancer, including myself. I’m also on the church leadership team. Our response is ‘that sucks’. We don’t try to explain or rationalize. Instead the church has mobilized to care for all individuals in practical and caring ways. Meals made and delivered, lawns mowed, kids minded whilst mum undergoes chemotherapy. This is our culture, not empty platitudes and “I’ll be praying for you”. Most of our folk (again myself included) have experienced and disillusioned by exactly what you outline and are determined to be different and real. People and community are our heartbeat.
Well done...
Remember the Book of Job.
These believers and non-believers will destory you from a lack of knowledge.
I'm sorry to hear, and I'm glad your community is doing that. In that terrible situation, that's the best response available.
It does seem like an indication of not taking the religion's claims about the world very seriously, though.
so glad you all have a healthy community supporting you. Hope the treatments go well!
And you can achieve this without believing that a god exists or going to church.
No God is required
0:16 That second response comes the *closest* to being valid, but here’s the problem: life isn’t a Disney movie. Life is a Don Bluth movie, in that it’s harsh and cruel, and while there’s certainly hope in the world, we shouldn’t expect it to automatically be granted to us just for existing.
I’m kinda convinced religiosity is anti empathy even for members of their religious community
It's anti-human.
I can have some respect for certain religious sects, like the Quakers (society of friends) of the “unprogrammed” variety. For one thing, 25 is the minimum age for making your decision to formally join the congregation. They are open and sociable with everyone. And a main tenet of their practice at their meetings is to just sit in silence. (This has become a minority practice. Most now have a program of service. But they still have some silence.)
The onus on the person who decides to speak is to do so with absolute honesty and integrity from their first hand knowledge and belief.
If someone feels moved to speak, others listen. If not, then they just sit in silence.
Quakers are the one Abrahamic religion/sect where you find genuinely modest, decent people who seem normal, relaxed, nonjudgemental about those who don’t share their religion.
It's interesting how "God's will" looks exactly like random chance.
Heaven and Hell are designed too elaborately to ensure that “random chance” isn’t a thing.
@@justice8718Heaven and hell arent designed at all. Your excuse is very convenient.
You Brandon, are the voice of reason. Keep up the great work!!
as for taking away hope from a child...as you say, Brandon, there are many ways of giving hope and comfort without god. Giving pretend hope through "god loves you," "pray and god will answer," "god is listening..." so when god doesn't come through, time after time, what does that do to a kid? The child won't even be able to trust the essential adults around him. He can become more and more devastated asking himself: did I not pray hard enough? Am I not deserving enough? How did I fail? Because god can't fail so it must be the child. You can only offer empty promises for so long before doubt sets in or even despair if the child blames themselves.
Totally agree... Also, kids tend to blame themselves when parents break up. They have a hard time thinking they didn't have a part in it, especially when they argue over you.
According to you, just tell the kid, you will die, you will suffer, just your are unlucky. Sorry.
@@revealingislam3956 Try again 🙄
That's the thing, isn't it? They focus on the "hope" part, and infer that alone is worth any lie. But there's more to it.
@@revealingislam3956 So did you watch the video or no? Cause that was already answered, goof.
I saw the first dead body as a 4 year old, I still remember it moved me to enjoy every day and stop thinking about a afterlife.
This world is a corpse. Don’t invest yourself into it.
@justice8718 is too late. I have children, and I used to share your view, but I changed.
@@justice8718 I'd argue the one worthwhile thing in this physical world to invest in are relationships and connections with other people. Reason being is that it not just dramatically enhances and improves this worldly life in all sorts of countless ways (making it easier because more support, and more fun due to more friends), but also in that IF an afterlife exists, that implies possibly running into and dealing with everyone you've ever met in life, which means you'd have more time to spend with your loved ones and cherished connections. And even if there's nothing after for whatever reason, at least you can say that ya had a good time, and made a positive impact on those around you, which'll help you feel at ease and satisfied at the end.
Of course, an afterlife existing also means that you'd run into all the people you might've potentially wronged or had bad experiences with, so the best possible advice is for life is essentially "be chill and friendly with others, as you don't also want to make eternal enemies!"
@@justice8718
It's funny you say that yet still cling to this corpse of a world.
@justice8718 That's sick. People like you would set the world on fire and cackle as it burns so that you can pretend the prophesy of a primitive apocalyptic cult is unfolding during your little life, since you can't comprehend evidence based knowledge and fear social irrelevance. Nothing will change that fact when you die, the corpse of the ape you were will rot in the dirt like every other ape and sentient organism ever to live on this planet.
A high standard of work as usual. A real treat, thank you.
Thanks for that!
I was an orderly at a children's hospital, for four years. The hospital had a chapel, where parents could wish their children's illness away. As well as treatment, x-ray, operating, and recovery rooms, where reality was practiced.
I can't recall one instance, where parents, especially the religious ones, brought their kids to the hospital, for prayer alone.
“Suppressing cancer cures as a means of poulation control
Cancer.
He said, “We can cure almost every cancer right now. Information is on file in the Rockefeller Institute, if it’s ever decided that it should be released. But consider-if people stop dying of cancer, how rapidly we would become overpopulated. You may as well die of cancer as something else.”
Efforts at cancer treatment would be geared more toward comfort than toward cure. There was some statement ultimately the cancer cures which were being hidden in the Rockefeller Institute would come to light because independent researchers might bring them out, despite these efforts to suppress them. But at least for the time being, letting people die of cancer was a good thing to do because it would slow down the problem of overpopulation.”
Quoted from an insider doctors speech, 1969
You make great videos. People like you are getting the message across. My thanks and respect.
I am disgusted by the Christians who acknowledge their children are better off dead, that's the best thing that could happen, but then they proceed to do everything they can to prevent their children from dying!
They obviously don't love their children, because actually loving their children means making sure they die.
This also means they acknowledge that the poor boy from last video would have been better off if his parents hadn't forced treatments on him. In fact, there's a good chance he'll recover from cancer - the absolute cruelty of robbing what's BEST for his son, keeping him out of heaven, on top of making him suffer, and all on top of risking his soul going to Hell. Yet, I don't see these Christians attacking that boy's father for his cruel decision to prevent the cancer from killing his child!
Don't listen to people who believe they'll be better off dead tell you how to live.
I would love to see more of you on The Line, Brandon. You absolutely nailed it with Matt.
@@David34981 Brandon & Matt seems like the dream good cop, bad cop situation! 😍
I agree with this wholeheartedly!!!
Hey everyone! hope all of you are doing ok!
Ditto Sauron
Thank you. You too!
👋😉☕
I'm fine. Good to see you here.
I lost mom to ALS and was grateful not to wonder “why did she/we deserve this?”
“God doesn’t cause cancer”
Meanwhile: God summoning horrific plagues in the Bible 😬
Believing in God is like going to a doctor that gives you a disease and then tells you their the only one that can cure you.
Like what happened
during Co^ id
Advertising crap is the same. If people don't like you, if you are sad, if you are having trouble...then try X.... our product will get rid of X and then people will like you, you will be happy, everything will go smoothly.
@@KAT-dg6el That's nutz.
Sorry about you being under the weather, hope you get better.
A few minutes of your vids are FAR more valuable and effective in helping children than countless thousands of prayers. Thank you Brandon.
6:30 As a religious person myself, I'd feel much more hopeful if I was suffering from cancer and someone told me "hey, we've got these medications that are backed by research and these expert doctors etc etc" rather than "the gods will take care of you". I'd also feel pretty bummed if someone said to me that they don't actually have a fix "but maybe God will help me/welcome me in heaven", because they're essentially saying "You're officially fucked, let's wait for a miracle"
How are you religious?
Curious what religion do you follow?
@@ThatGuy-1-1-1 Well, generally I'm a polytheist and I mainly worship the Greek gods for now, but I take aspects from many religions I come across, and I can't really tell exactly which idea comes from where honestly 😅. I take inspiration from Hinduism, Taoism, a bit of Wicca, Norse heathenry and hellenic polytheism (plus some residue from being taught Christianity from a young age probably), but I don't _strictly_ adhere to any one of those.
@@athenodorstorm
Hmm that’s very interesting. I’m curious if you don’t mind me asking do you believe that these gods actually exist or do you view them more as ideas that guide your life.
@@ThatGuy-1-1-1 I believe they exist as spiritual entities. Also, I don't take the myths literally, so for example I don't believe Zeus literally raped women. I am aware that the myths are written by people and I think they should be interpreted considering this. I also don't really use myths to support my personal beliefs surrounding the gods
15:29 It doesn't even matter if he's not the cause, he still refuses to lift a finger to stop it .
Well, it matters in that it's aggravating circumstances.
@irrelevant_noob How does that matter?
@@goldenalt3166 it makes the stance look even worse...
@@irrelevant_noob Worse than being the cause of all rapes, murders, thefts, and basphemies against the holy spirit for all time?
Sometimes the truth hurts. Keep on spreading truth Brandon it is what everyone needs.
Logic and reason without faith lead straight to living being completely pointless and every living individual only being here because survival instincts force that result. The Sun will eventually get hot enough to sterilize Earth, then likely vaporize it, and all that has occurred on this rock will be erased forever. So why not all off ourselves? Because it causes others pain? Are you saying we need a lot more instruments and chemicals with which to end the misery of life for all of humanity cleanly before pursuing this goal? After all, “life is suffering”, “take up your cross”, yada yada. Or, as my son put it at five when told time seems to pass very slowly when we are suffering but very quickly when we are enjoying ourselves, “That isn’t fair!”. Indeed. So why bother? Why not just coordinate a day to all end it? It’s all pointless and accomplishes nothing in the end, anyway… 🤨
THANK YOU FOR BEING SO HONEST! MOST PEOPLE DON'T HAVE THE GUTS TO SAY OUT LOUD WHAT YOU SAID, MOST PEOPLE DON'T DARE TO GO THAT FAR BUT ITS THE DAMN TRUTH AND DEEP DOWN EVERYBODY KNOWS IT!! 💯💯☝🏾☝🏾 YOU ARE BLESSED FOR YOUR BOLD HONESTY 👍🏾👍🏾👍🏾👍🏾
I agree, and to dig into this mess and see it for what it really is.
@Sue-xv8os Exactly!
Everyone goes through tragedies believers in God or not. It’s all about how you deal with those tragedies that everyone goes through.
I'm so glad to hear Christians are watching your videos, Brandon! They must be feeling a little rebellious. My pastor would have told me to steer clear of anything like the material you're trying to propagate. It's really good stuff - even for the fully deconverted.
Since becoming a father this year my questioning of Christianity has only increased. I would never want my family to suffer, I would give up everything for them to have the best life they can have. It’s a terrifying thought that “the Lord can give and the Lord can take away” and I better like it. It’s hard reading my Bible and knowing I don’t align with a lot it has to say.
I prayed many times asking God to show me how I’m supposed to see the world and here I am still asking questions lol.
I’m still newer on my deconstruction journey but I just want to say thank you for helping me feel like I’m not alone. I’m not trying to rebel against God, I’m just reading my Bible and asking “Why?”
Take care.
Don’t resist his will to embrace your own will. That leads to your death.
Lose your old will and inherit his will.
Remember, your body, soul, and spirit is corrupted. Evil isn’t just need to be removed, it must be replaced by God, or else evil will sweep itself back inside.
You should be able to fully investigate all your questions, concerns, & doubts. If the god of whatever is actually true, it will easily withstand all scrutiny and stay unwaveringly true. Like a globe earth! Investigate to your heart's content, because it's true and will be true regardless of how you feel about it. Take care on your journey, where ever it may lead!
@@BearMas i investigated the globe earth and was surprised to find it very lacking!
Just keep searching and digging!
@@Volleyball_Chess_and_Geoguessr Good thing it's still true regardless about how you feel about it! :)
Thank you Brandon again for this video, I'm glad you are speaking out. That shows how blinded these people are, I'm ashamed to say that i probably would have said the same things. I'm so so happy I'm out of these stupid beliefs. I appreciate your channel so much and look forward to watching you. ❤❤
Appreciate this comment so much. Thanks!
Mr. Deity calls this convenient forgetting of your own lore: 'Godzheimers'.
"Truth is truth!!!!". We need this more than ever now!
Obviously not exactly the same, but I experienced SA as a child. When I opened up to my pastor about it many years later, he implied I was SAd as a punishment for being conceived out of wedlock.
That really is the thing that finalized losing my belief in God. I had already been ostracized from most of the church members for having a trans brother (and accepting him) and when I was told I had been so horribly hurt because God wanted to punish me for a choice I had no say in, it really struck me. How could a God that supposedly loves me unconditionally not only allow these things, but directly choose to do them? Not to mention the time everyone cheered in the pews when a stand in preacher proudly told the story of his son kicking out his child for being gay. If this God loves me, loves all his creations, then why would he hurt them so much? I rambled here but anyway, yeah
They hold their ears and squeeze their eyes shut, and yell "LALALALA" to keep from facing the truth. Proof that their adherence is emotional, not based on any facts whatsoever.
Believer: "God gives us hope that everything will turn out okay because he's in control"
An atheist: "Actually, I am an atheist."
Believer: "Who hurt you? Why are you angry at god?"
How on earth does a believer not understand that an athiest is not angry at a god....athiest does not believe in a god
@@annemariededekind6271 because they think we secretly do believe in one and are just mad at it so we say we don't believe in it.
@@demnwarrior7 Yep.
Honestly…as a previous four year old raised super Christian…I would have absolutely NOT have been comforted by my parents religion. It TERRIFIED me. I would have nightmares and panic attacks of myself or loved ones dying in hell. Or I pictured myself in heaven and I imagined it being like our church and thinking that would be so bad. 😮
THANK YOU for this video. I am Christian, and seeing people defending blind faith is ridiculous. I've been through too much to know that God doesn't interact in this world like most people think. The Bible is a historical book written by people who have also had their own biases. Put ANYTHING through a game of telephone for 3000 years and you'll get something completely different. Hence why there are so many versions of the Bible, modifications, books left out, etc.
We have likely strayed away so far from the actual source, that the Bibles we read are very likely extremely different than what actually happened.
God is something for everyone to discover and understand. I am still on that journey myself. Thank you for this video mate. Really opened my eyes to how some Christians can be
It is sad that people in 21st century are relying on goat herders' understanding of the world from 2000-6000 years ago. To me it is insane.
So why are you still a christian?
If that's the case. Why do "Christians" care about abortion? Isn't that a first class ticket to Heaven for all of those unborn souls ?
Yeah, why should Christians even have children if they then have to worry that the child could go to Hell?
Why do Christians care about abortion? Shouldn’t everyone be given a chance to live?
Didn’t every one of us who wasn’t aborted, given the chance to live?
..
@@davidrexford586 Why don't you treat abortions like you treat school shootings: Send "thoughts and prayers" and then IGNORE them!?!?
@@davidrexford586why doesn’t god give those kids with cancer a chance to live?
Only a fallen god would allow something like childhood cancer to exist.
Watch some Christian pop up and give you some mentally convoluted reason 🙏
Yep. I watched two friends go through their first child being born with terminal cancer. I was a christian then and I buried this so deep that I have only remembered it today, a quarter of a century later. I couldn't rationalise it so I buried it and went on as though nothing had happened. Noone at the church ever mentioned it again. Isn't this god wonderful:/
...or a non-existant one. Humans are mammals, full of, surrounded by, and completely made of biology and chemicals. Animals get tons of diseases, we age, we have accidents, we fall victim to predators occasionally. We die, and our biological bits go back to the world, same as a cat or a bee or a copepod. It's what we've learned and tested and proven since the bronze age, so how about we leave the old 'making stuff up' thing behind?
I would this kind of god a sadis😡
I have been around those spaces as a non-believer. And it never touched me badly in my new life as a believer.
There are children both blind, deaf, or deformed. And some of them had the strongest spirit for God that their books led the abled and disabled to him.
There was a child born with no illness, only a purpose to serve God and wowed the Russians with signs and wonders, that was doomed to die early.
My wife's mother died of cancer when my wife was a child, not even ten years old. She is now well in her thirties and still grieves for her. That her dad died just a few years ago of cancer as well didn't make it any better. We are not religious, but I was as a child and even today I ask myself that if there is that god I once believed in, why would he kill good people and leave the most amazing person I've ever met traumatized and sad? That's not the reason I lost my faith (that reason is more or less that I couldn't find convincing evidence for any god or gods in my late teens, early twenties), but it is definitely one of the many reasons why I could never believe again.
I just found this channel and listened to a few older videos on my commute today. I just love the content and style. Had to park so I could subscribe!!
What an awesome comment. Thanks so much and welcome to the fam!
@@MindShift-Brandon I'd really love to debate you.
@@echo.romeo.You'd lose. It would end up looking like Sye Ten Bruggencate getting his ass handed to him by Matt Dillahunty.
I grew up in a church that would always profess the power of prayer. I also would hear people say that God answers prayer by saying yes, no, or wait. And even as a kid within that world I would think to myself “how is prayer powerful if God is going to do what he wants anyway?” What good is it to call out when he will do whatever he wants in the situation no matter what we say to him? I’ve finally gotten to a place where I am heavily deconstructing and no longer trust the Bible at all. Figures.
That was awesome. Great job Brandan. You nailed it as usual and you make way more sense than any christian ever did to me.
Thank you for pointing out these stupidities!
“Suppressing cancer cures as a means of poulation control
Cancer.
He said, “We can cure almost every cancer right now. Information is on file in the Rockefeller Institute, if it’s ever decided that it should be released. But consider-if people stop dying of cancer, how rapidly we would become overpopulated. You may as well die of cancer as something else.”
Efforts at cancer treatment would be geared more toward comfort than toward cure. There was some statement ultimately the cancer cures which were being hidden in the Rockefeller Institute would come to light because independent researchers might bring them out, despite these efforts to suppress them. But at least for the time being, letting people die of cancer was a good thing to do because it would slow down the problem of overpopulation.”
Quoted from an insider doctor in a speech, 1969
Charity idea: Doctors Without Borders (MSF)! You've talked about kids who are suffering and barely heard the gospel in your Problem of Suffering video, so we could make sure those people get the care they deserve!
Meh...they support DEI. Probably some better charities like ASPCA or something.
@@crassbusinessman3122 Oh nooo they support the woooke oh the horror.
I love how cold hearted your delivery is 😅
Absolutely fantastic, my friend.
If something *can* be destroyed by the truth - it *needs* to be destroyed by the truth
Your podcast was very well done and very logical. I admire your commitment to what you view as the truth. You are doing a very admirable job with St. Jude to support the kids with cancer.
I have been a Christian for 53 years and served in many capacities in various churches and denominations. It was not until I retired that I began to read voluminous material about church history so that during the last ten years I have thrown out the Dogma of Hell and also the Dogma of Inerrancy. I’m still a Christian having seen through some of the horrible accretions to Orthodox Christian Tradition and I have not been received well or tolerated in fundamentalist circles. It has been a very lonely time sharing what I could with those whom I thought would be receptive. I believe it is the truth.
I am much stronger as a Christian, more hopeful and now know what the Good News actually is. I am not a universalist but believe everyone will come before the judgment seat of Christ, and all who did not know Him, will know Him then. I believe God is a good God despite what some of the scriptures say which may or may not have come from Him. All of the bible is not God’s word, it contains God’s Word.
I have not figured out why kids get cancer….I don’t blame God. I believe in His Goodness although He is not represented well on various occasions in especially the Old Testament whereby “Thus saith the Lord” sanctions Gods will to accomplish a terrible deed when it could be nothing more that the strong desires of a stiff-necked Israelite wanting to have his selfish way.
All any of us can do is follow the Truth as we have worked hard for it. I choose to try and rebuild the old structure because at the core of it is good for all of us and it is something that you, Brandon, practice now, while others prefer to demolish all of it and start over. With only finite knowledge we will be disqualified to make that final judgment. Hopefully we are on the right path.
I appreciate that you are deconstructing, but how can you not know why kids get cancer? Have you not heard of genetics? Further, were there a god, why would you not blame it for cancer, as no cancer would exist, had it not created, *knowing* that it would, when a deity may choose not to create, correct?
Thank you for your work on this channel, Brandon! Take time for yourself to recover from the X-tian blow-back. These conversations are uncomfortable truths. We humans have created a toxic and cruel world. Many are hoping for divine intervention, either getting Hoovered up by Space Jesus or retirement in space Hawaii. This thinking enables apathy and disregard for our world. Accepting responsibility is harder. But if we face these problems we can address them. Be well!
If believers were consistent: God created everything therefore, God created cancer. I went to the funeral of a three year old leukemia victim in 1982, my youngest was the same age at time. It was the saddest experience of my life until 36 years later my own child died due to PTSD from being raped when she was 13. We tried so hard to keep her alive. 😢 No justice - no God. I support Ronald McDonald house who support the families of hospitalized children. Thanks for speaking the truth, Brandon. 😘
I'm so sorry for your loss. That's so awful. I know that it's possible to die from PTSD, especially from something as violating and humiliating as rape. I hope she was able to receive some comfort from her loved ones before she died. I'm sorry she couldn't make it through. The sad fact is, not everyone does, not everyone can. It's not true that "God doesn't give you anything you can't handle." Some things really are that bad. I hope you and your family have some sources of comfort and understanding.
Oh, my heart weeps for you & her. You're right, there is no justice and that's why we need community engagement to care for each other. No one is looking out for us, we are in this together. Sending you a virtual hug ❤
There is a difference. The three-year old is in heaven. And if your daughter isn’t a believer, she’s in Hell.
That is the justice of God…
@@justice8718 oh, cool. your god sucks then.
@@BearMas Maybe I'm giving too much credit, but I think justice8718 was poking at the injustice of it, not justifying it.
Great job on this video. Thank for for all the fine examples.
Thanks so much!
These foolish fanatics and zealots make me sick. If there is Divine, they slander it, if there is no Divine, they make objective reality, as bad as it is, even worse with their plague of ignorance, tribalism and self-righteousness.
May the world be cleansed from these horrible ideas as soon as possible! May the humankind be freed from these blights upon its body!
I do perform the will of God. And God made his rules so clear. Obey his Ten Commandments or perish.
@@justice8718 Which Ten Commandments?
@@BearMas 2 I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
7 Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.
13 Thou shalt not kill.
14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.
15 Thou shalt not steal.
16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.
18 And all the people saw the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the noise of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking: and when the people saw it, they removed, and stood afar off.
19 And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die.
@@justice8718 Oh man, if all I gotta do is follow those, then I'm SET! I don't work on Sundays, I honor my father & mother by being an atheist like they were, and I honestly think my neighbor has really tacky taste. See you in Heaven, my guy!
@@justice8718 I'm going to guess that you would be st0ned to de8th if those commandments were implemented, and they aren't even the commandments referred to as the 10 in the bible.
You don't keep the Feast of Weeks, Feast of Unleavened Bread, do you?
I keep coming back to the same issue, seeing it again and again. When confronted with a problem, a Christian, whether dedicated apologist or everyday churchgoer, will find something that solves the one and only problem they're currently looking at, and then wash their hands of the whole thing. Move onto the next question, do the same with that, move on again, until no one's asking them questions anymore. Atheism soundly defeated, Christianity protected.
But their solutions always cause MORE problems. New contradictions between that new answer and other parts of the Bible or the belief system at large. New questions of "why would a loving being EVER do such a thing?!" And these new problems never seem to occur to the one who just brought them about. And when you drag their attention to it directly, like shoving an animal's nose in a mess it made, you once again get the same tactic of addressing that new problem in a vacuum, ignoring all other things that it breaks in the process, even if they end up breaking the original problem they'd JUST tried to solve. It's basically ubiquitous. Just about the only answers that don't do this are the ones that push the problem out of the realm of reality and into the territory of complete unfalsifiability, and that's its own huge problem.
This inability to answer issues without causing more issues is just about the surest sign there could be that your belief system has errors in it. And considering how common it is in Christianity, the errors it has are numerous and all-encompassing. This religion, and indeed any religion, and indeed anything that isn't accurate to reality, simply cannot ever avoid this problem, because the only thing that will never produce these errors is THE capital-T Truth.
If you're having these problems, it's time to start changing your views. Follow the path of least contradiction wherever it leads, and you'll very quickly find that the only belief system left standing is a rigorously scientific one. Which only makes sense, as the entire point of the scientific method is to permanently drop any belief that starts contradicting reality until such a time as all your beliefs are true. And of course to study reality closely to gain more raw data that we can use to prove more false beliefs false and get ever closer to true understanding of our world. It's a work in progress, and will be for centuries to come, but it has already long surpassed all other major systems of thought.
So if you're rightfully torn about God's actions and how they fail to line up with God's character, then perhaps it's time to start looking somewhere new for answers. You may finally start to feel the intense joy of realization, when all that you know finally clicks neatly into place. It's a feeling that, in my experience, never gets old.
The book of Job makes it clear that the Devil and evil will still strike the most righteous of believers.
@@justice8718 Yep. It also makes it clear that God explicitly allows this to happen, regardless of the intensity of suffering caused by that evil, and even specifically wants credit for the bad things that happen to people every bit as much as the good things.
@@riluna3695 My biggest issue with unbelievers and their claims against God is how they don’t look at all on Jesus and how mankind treated him. Man plotted to kill him before he was ever born.
@@justice8718 I've never heard of that, myself, so it's hard for me to take a proper look at it. Where can I learn more about that?
But as far as "unbelievers" are concerned, if Jesus was a true historical figure and he was killed for the crimes the Bible claims he was killed for, which I have no trouble whatsoever believing, then I absolutely condemn the actions of those who put him to death. I do not need to be religious to find the idea of hanging someone up to slowly die a painful death to be horrible and unethical. My atheism does nothing to push me to think that people who aren't atheists are in any way less than me or deserving of punishment. They are people who deserve to be treated like people, and if any atheist says otherwise I will fight them on that point.
I can understand the simplicity of the idea that "a lot of unbelievers were cruel, so it's fair to assume they all are", but while it's easy to fall into generalizations like that, please give it more thought and let people show you who they really are, without coercing them into a preexisting box. Some Atheists are immoral, some are moral. Some Christians are immoral, some are moral. And in my experience, the moral ones in each group far outnumber the immoral ones. Most people just want everyone to get along. I know I do.
And I know that will sound contradictory to you. I've spoken out against Christian beliefs, and against God's character as described in the Bible. I do truly believe that if God is as either the Bible claims or as most Christians I've met claims, then he is immoral and dangerous. And to you that may feel like I am attacking a friend, a parent, or some other important person in your life.
But when I see people in abusive relationships with other humans, I want to rescue them from those relationships, even if they themselves are in love with the person hurting them. And a very similar thing happens with religious belief, where the belief itself can hurt a person in any number of ways. Even while some parts feel rewarding, and it may even feel more net-positive than net-negative, those negatives still remain. And the same is true of people currently being abused. The human mind will always try to make what's "normal" seem like what's "right", even when a person is in a VERY bad situation. It's a coping mechanism, not an indicator of the truth of the situation.
So whether you understand it or not, whether you want it or not, my hope for you, and for all people trapped in religious thinking, is for you to one day find your way out of it and into a better life than you currently believe is even physically possible. And sometimes that requires me to be brutally honest about what kind of person God is. The Bible is very clear on this issue, whether you want to see it or not.
I believe Christianity has a similar message: "Love the sinner, hate the sin", was it? That's my approach, wanting the best for all religious people, but finding religion as a concept abhorrent, for a staggering number of reasons. I believe it hurts people, whether they're in or out of that religion, and unlike Christian claims, I have the statistics to back up that belief.
So there you go. That's my mission statement, why I do what I do. I'm showing as much of the nuance of my thoughts as I can, to hopefully show as clearly as possible how much I do NOT fit the stereotypes pastors preach about atheists, as well as just wanting you to understand my position in general.
And if you want me to give my opinion on the notion of people trying to kill Jesus before he was ever born, I'm willing to do so if you share a source I can use to read up on the issue.
Nailed it as usual!
Thank you for speaking up Brandon. 💙
He's such a loser.
I agree, I thank God for giving him exposure. God will use both lost and saved alike to bring people home
@@MB-ro5xh not if you're going to be obnoxious about it, so by all means, continue
@@ButteredToits- God will continue.
Truth is what everyone needs to hear! Thank you so much Brandon for all you do. Keep the Truth coming.
I'd like to recommend Big Brothers Big Sisters for a charity. I was put into the program when I was 6 years old. I don't think I'd be here or as good of a person without her. I'm 41 now and still talk to my Big Sis from the program. ❤️
Love it. Thanks!
God: *creates evil apple of eternal suffering*
God: "don't eat it though"
My favourite cop out: words don’t mean words.
You accepting donations for St Judes proves your actions are more genuine than most Christians I’ve ever encountered and I’ve been just as guilty. I’m still on the journey of deconstruction and it is so incredibly painful but your voice giving credence to what I’ve felt in the pit of my stomach all along has helped me face that fear. Thank you.
Straight-forward…
If you think an existence consisting of instances of childhood cancer is MORE PERFECT than an existence consisting of nothing but a PERFECT creator God… then you KNOW that YOUR perfect creator God is LACKING in the quality of perfection. Literal childhood cancer is somehow a necessary component of perfection that your perfect God is missing unless He brings it about. Cognitive dissonance 101.
Lying to kids with terminal cancer? Bearing false witness to your neighbor? That’s ABSOLUTELY moral under certain situations. When my Christian dad was unconscious and obviously on the verge of death and my mom and sisters were pleading to him to give up and end his/their suffering… I neither shared their sentiments NOR told him to embrace a lifeless nonexistence.
He was on morphine and just hours prior was awake. He asked me, “Am I dying?” I cried as I told him “Yes.” He responded, “I don’t know why so feel so good.” He stayed awake and enjoyed… literally enjoyed… eating a simple bowl of soup. I cannot imagine a better reason to live.
So when Dad was unconscious and apparently moments from death… I told him “Don’t listen to them womenfolk. You save your strength up for as long as you can… and when the time comes you use it all… you get in your car, punch it and peel out into heaven. Give ‘em something to remember you by when you get there!”
I lied my ass off and have no guilt. If some literal miracle happened allowing him a will to live long enough to enjoy a few more bowls of soup… or even a pizza or prime rib or lobster tail… I’d feel an identical amount of guilt…ZERO.
And lastly, an all-knowing perfect creator God DOES NOT have the excuse of saying “I had NO CLUE that my decision to create the world would bring about childhood cancer! How was I supposed to know that my perfect, infallible plans would result in something so horrible? Who do you think I am, God or something?”
Yeah… that’s you, Christians. YOU don’t think your God is God.
@MindShift-Brandon ❤You're doing Humanstic Work & Youre SO Appreciated.
Perfect actually doing good instead of only preaching something that is supposedly good. Good idea Brandon. Thank you for the continued posts.
response 1 perfectly demonstrates the meaning of "death cult".
Kid gets cancer, doesn't get cancer, dies from cancer, heals from cancer, it doesn't matter what happens, the Christians have already decided that god is the hero even when he's plainly the villain.
Great episode Brandon. Thank you. William Ln., Craig should be ashamed of himself for that comment. I’ve heard Swanberg give the same excuse just horrific.
its always lurking under the surface, but yes when you hear it boldly put, its somehow more insane. Thanks!
ACLU----I'm a long-time advocate of their work.
Great video, as always. Very well thought out and presented!
Much appreciated!
1. Then why have them born to begin with?
2. There's always hope, but in the case of 'no' hope, yes. That's exactly what you say. Then you sit with them and learn to be brave together.
3. God created a world he knew would "fall"...and that took nothing more than for 2 people who by definition didn't know right from wrong to commit a "sin".
Boom! Here we go! God is good; they say!
Good to see you here.
@TonyLambregts you too Tony
@@maggienewton8518 hiya Maggie
Hi Sam 🎉😊☕️☀️