Hats off to Arun Shourie for standing for the truth in spite of having roots in BJP. That's an honest man. Truth matters more than political affiliation. Great sir.
Hats off to Mr. Shourie. He has very clearly explained how the complexities and the time tested procedures that are being slowly thwarted and infringed.
You nailed it Mr Shourie. Interestingly I am simple middle class person working in an IT firm, been shouting everywhere that this deal was a scam, no one in my circle pays attention as they are busy feeding their family. I posted many blogs and posts on FB, but since I am not a VIP, no one interviewed me. Your words matches mine... 100% ... but you opened late.... I lost all faith on Modi and BJP. I regret voting them. .. Anil Ambani ne kabhi pankha nahi banaya... he only cheated and forged books.. he aquired Pipavav a debt ridden company just to board this deal. ......Parikkar was in Goa in a shop opening ceremony during PM visit to France, and guess who was there already "Anil Ambani"
In a inter governamental agreement whereis the mention of Reliance? Page and clause please. Mr. Shorie is a piece of old guard a lier always refers to his 40 years experience as journalist.....this is the true sign of a conniving lier......when his wicket is weak.....
More important - how much money, how many hundreds or thousands of crores already given to Dassault and from them to Anil Ambani and then to Modi & Co?
Chacha , it has been 3 years , why hasn't been any court case in Rafale scam ...Why Opposition has become quiet ?? If rafale aircraft is a scam ,then tell us from where will Airforce get its Aircraft,which is falling rapidly ?? Do you have any Idea from where the planes will come...Arun shourie , Lal Krishna Advani , Yashwant sinha , Murli Manohar Joshi are not been in power and they are frustated ..If there is scam , why did Opposition argued the case in Supreme Court...
@@rajaram3190 We should develop indigenous manufacturing and technologies [like China] and not just depend on foreign companies. Earlier agreement was a bit OK since it provided for transfer of technology and manufacture by our own public sector organization. Now everything upset and paying huge price, with the usual kickbacks and commissions, they are just looting the public exchequer - all moneys are our tax paid and we cannot afford to spend for their aiyashis and corrupt incomes.
@@malliksharma What is new in it our whole Independence Struggle under congress was under slogan "Swadeshi" , Now where is that Swadeshi Spirit ? Why did it falter ? We have Hundereds of OFBs ,why there is no indigenous guns made in last 73 years ? Similarly i can argue on and on other weapon system...
Arun shourie buried then with facts. The anchor looked so uncomfortable. She had nothing to argue back with. Truth is emphatic and cannot be deflected with lies
France reduced... Ok it's France and India is not France. France is in European union India has China and Pak sharing a border. Please don't compare it for justification. You know how European union function.
france is currently fighting various wars be it in syria, afganistan . india is not all fighting a war right now so that that . moreover if we end up having a war with china and pak , we can use all of trio- navy,army,airforce But france can only use airforce to fight against syria
George Tharayil The clincher that is - angle of Reliance defence , a company incorporated just 10 days before signing of this controversial deal ( & not PSU HAL )...! Smells of textbook case of cronyism & potential quid pro quo ,hence corruption ? Any patriotic Indian would question this !
sheldon pereira So securing India, countering China and Pakistan or in other word, India's Defense deals are as easy as sheldon pereira's purchase of a phone. Are you in your senses ?
sheldon pereira *#5.* My government Change and you come, 2014. *#6.* You re-start the negotiations, halted since 2012, for nearly a year and realize the negotiations are leading nowhere. You are also apprised of the 'critical' situation your family is in. *#7.* Additional roadblocks: A. - Before 2014, when I was in charge, during negotiations, I had made an agreement with D that if I and D were to engage in a deal then the final price would be calculated on the fixed cost formula that allowed D to include additional price of 3.9 % Inflation Indices from day 1 of the deal. So, if you were to go with the deal ahead, you would end up paying an additional cost of Inflation Indices. B. - Change of technology in 5-6 years. You were apprised that your family (IAF) would like to change the phone after five years - the phones were required since 2004. The phones technology in 2004 - 2007 -2010- -2012 -2014 2015 have changed considerably. And in future, it’s technology would deplete. You don't want to have mere paperweights in your pockets after five/ten years. You are also told by your family (IAF) that it will be detrimental if the family is not upgraded C. - budgetary allocation.
Exactly. They can't . Their allegations will be thrashed in court . Elections are coming everyone will know they are just spreading rumours and they will lose . These guys give 0 shit about the country all they want is to politicise every issue and gain footage without legally proceeding anything
He will not go court till the elections of 2019 since that is what is main aim ,to corner Modi. In one breath he says that air force has been made disadvantaged and he will take his own time to go to court,till then air force will suffer. And it the court cancels the deal it will do more harm to airforce. SC was forced to revieve the arrests of the urban naxals over night. I am really amused with anchor and Mr. Abhijith both of them were very raptly listening to shouire and making him going on talking and talking and at end the loosing all his steam.The two young persons are really wise .
Govt is in a deep trouble .. The opposition has very strong facts. Just Modi charisma is not going to save the BJP. they need to come up with strong justifications. Most of the times the debates that I have seen have on this topic has landed BJP reps questioning opposition's image when they were ruling, mostly by highlighting Coal-gate , 2 G etc . But BJP reps are not in a position to objectively counter the oppositions claims. There is simply no justifications for cancelling the previous deal. Had we gone for the same we would have procured the planes in Bulk , manufactured 108 of them here and would have saved on service.
Government shoddy in communication ? What about Mr Modi,s reputation as great communicator ? Mr Sourie is absolutely right our PM is great in rabble rousing or when he has any (usually frivolous) answer at all.
Arun Shourie u r such an awesome guy. Tht so called defence analyst and idiotic anchor both were superbly handled and given apt treatment. The ending is the best where he says media should also do some work 😂😂
The body of Abhijit clearly shows ....that he is a crook .....look at his eyes .... he is looking around probably for prompts from sources around ..... sounds very manipulative ..... perfectly chosen for Modi agenda. God bless this country
There is no DEFENCE on the questions and facts stated by Mr. Arun Shourie. Mr. Shourie is a genius. I am very impressed by the manner in which he stated all the facts. We need educated people who are honest running the Government.
After working in state govt even amount exceeding 10% of the tendered amount can’t be approved without revising the estimate and obtaining Administrative Sanction of govt. This has to go through entire hierarchy of particular deptt. No Minister can change any tender unilaterally and ask for change entire scope of work.
I don't seem to understand why the government is unable to explain the points raised by Arun Shourie makes just like Abhijit is explaining in this debate. Hiding all information, especially about why the number of aircraft were reduced from 126 to 36; behind secrecy clause and official secrets is bad in spirit and taste.
The MOU's between the countries were signed for a fresh 'urgent' deal. The old deal of 126 odd fighter jets was cancelled as its negotiations were not going anywhere due to the lowest pricing being offered by the then government. That's the reason why the French Aircraft Manufacturer, Dassault, had put India's offer in its *L-1(lowest bidder)* category. There was no signed deal. The Congress is doing this on purpose for electoral benefit. This government proposed a fresh deal of 32 jets in flying conditions with training facility, tot under make in India, missile technology, and spares. This is the first time when babus were accompanied by IAF SERVING officers who negotiated this fresh deal of 36 jets.
Greko Kumbawa I don't completely agree with you on this. If the Modi government is clean in this transaction, why is it not forthcoming to explain in detail, if not to the public, then to parliamentarians, that laid down processes have been followed at every step of the new deal. It must also explain how 126 became 36 i.e. were 126 with all hi tech add-ons and ammunition absolutely unaffordable?? Whether there was written consent from the IAF to have the bare minimum squadron strength for this aircraft? How does it plan to make up for the gap in the IAF's squadron requirement. Is it the Tejas which is going to fulfill that gap. If not, then what? The Tejas programme is not going as planned with HAL dragging it's feet and it doesn't seem that they have been able to really reform HAL. Why wasn't a new tender floated for requirements beyond 36 in 2015 itself? The problem is this government promised speedy and transparent decision making and now they're shying away from answering simple questions. Nobody is asking for mission critical details to be given out.
Ashwin Valecha 1/n Imagine I have allotted 100 Rupees and I want to 'urgently' purchase 126 phones, in 2004. The requirement at my home is at a urgent stage which would be critical if my family requirements are not met. So I put a tender notice. Now I select a 'manufacturer 'D (dasslt)' of a country 'F(francie)', in as late as 2011; I tell him that I will be buying 18 of those phones off-the-shelf (basic phone body).And he will have to manufacture the 108 phones (basic phone body) in my company 'H(hal)'. I haven’t negotiated about it’s OS/Softwares/RAM/Internal Memory Card/slots, sound system, camera and resolutions, the apps, MS office. I am thinking of negotiating with different companies, for instance,with Android - iOS. - MS - OTHERS FOR my phone’s OS, google, sony-canon for cameras, and so on. That was to be done later once the manufacturing starts with H.
Ashwin Valecha 2/n The price quoted by D was humongous, much higher than the allotted Rs. 100. So D straightaway puts me in ‘LOWEST BIDDER’ list as I did not reveal that part to D. This is on record. D is not ready to take responsibility for 108 phones to be manufactured in H(HAL,my home PSU company). D refuses to give manufacturing license to H. He is not ready to train my people for maintainence. He is not giving me spares [Test case:Su30MKI - Russians always raise the cost of the spares later]. He won’t service them. And so on. All this is for a basic phone body. His condition of manufacturing the 108 phones in 30 million man hours is rejected by my home company, H(hal). H insists on 100 million man hours. There is dissatisfaction and disagreement with D and he is not ready to cope, as the technology changes very fast. You family (IAF) supports D’s claim. They don’t want another 20-25 years in manufacturing when the technology changes[Test case: Tejas ] I also don’t help the negotiation by bringing all the files back to my table - It stays there unattended on my table for 2 years. So the negotiations with D are stuck for another 3 years. The roadblocks are constant and growing. The technology is changing constantly. And you are yet to negotiate about phone’s Equipments, Softwares, Apps, etc.with either D or various other companies.
Abhijit seems to be just a student of the story but does not seems to understand how government procedures and other cronies. He seems to be clearly biased towards Reliance and Few individuals in the govt.
who on earth uses a fighter plane as a nuclear delivery device 36 or 126 no one uses it for dropping nukes i think Abhijit Iyer-Mitra has lost all sense of strategic defense procurement rational.
that abhijit saying 126 would have cost very high but he must know 18 were fly away condtion and and wages are 4 time higher so but from 90 thousand crore for 126 and 65 thousands crore for 36, wisdome is resting in peace , arun shouri thanks for making me uderstand the dabate level and listening capability how to listen to others, even there are crape from other side
Who are the people who evaluate a certain defense acquisition? Do they change with governments? Was the UPA government purchasing aircraft without adequate weapons systems and strike capabilities? Were they being bought for joyrides? If the pool of experts remains virtually the same from 2012 to 2016 why is it so confusing? New Deal Old Deal Same Deal WTH?
Asked why Anil Ambani was chosen as the offsets partner for Rafale, an unnamed French official reportedly said: "Il fallait un homme qui puisse sussurer dans l'oreille du cheval." We needed a man (a jockey) who could whisper into the horse's ear." - Dr Mohan Guruswamy (Chairman, Centre for Policy Alternatives)
Must be checked whether this "defence expert " is on payroll of dassault or for that matter reliance defence. His antecedents & affiliations must be checked.
The Rafael Deal: It is important for democracy that should be run in a mode of open and transparent manner to ask question of on the policy, implementation and budget cost of any government. The Parliamentary democracy provides for accountability through a series of layers that protects the sensitive matters related to defence and security. The departmental structures are also evolved to professionally plan and deliver Ministerial decisions that is best in the interest of the country. The powers of the politicians have a major potential for exploitations on the grounds of political or financial corruptions. Therefore, foundation of ‘good governance’ must be applied to ensure that decision is accountable to the Parliament. In the case of Rafael case, it seems to be failing. Nowadays, when the private sector is allowed to enter into defence procurement of goods and services, there is the need to strengthen the process where the politicians are kept at a distance in influencing selections of preferences of such interests. In a more ideal scenario the process should be robust and managed by the defence personnel. If the Government from the political perspective starts ‘misinformation’ exercise to protect their actions where preferences are seen to be shifted to the private sector of their own favourites, then it is a serious breach that may lead to compromising national security. There is no reason to hold a Joint Parliamentary Inquiry, with powers to recommend exposures or relevant facts, safeguarding the security aspects to the parliament.
@thequint I seem to not be able to share this video on Facebook..it's getting flagged even before it gets posted... It is quite unusual. Could you please look into that and let us know the reason why??
Wow did this senior fellow just told us that when Defence Minister announced the price in parliament he was talking about a fighter plane without engines? And that he knows 36 planes are enough for my India? What an audacity!!
Mr Iyer, Come on, Mr Abhijit your arguments are rubbish. So when we go to car dealer to buy a car the price what the dealer quote is only for chassis. How can the price of Rafale aircraft go up by 300%. Why HAL was ignored? You are talking in favour of Govt. so that your position is secure.
I too had similar doubts Mr Arun Shourie had regarding Price of Rafel Multi Medium Combat Aircraft inked by NDA ,but after reading the an article on the price paid by Qutar and Saudi Arabia from Dassault for similar aircraft the things are cleared and I don't think we have paid more .
There were negotiations for many many years and no decision was taken during UPA regime. There was NO deal... The Air Force was running short of Fighter Jets... The 36 Jets were bought off the shelf by NDA, whereas the "negotiations"126 Jets were to be manufactured by Dassault and others by HAL. Reliance has been selected by Dassault for part of the offset agreement for parts etc... Price for base fighters agreed by NDA is cheaper than the price "negotiated" by the UPA. The cost of weapon systems (radar-missiles) etc is independent of the base price and sensitive details are never declared to the parliament. There is no precedence of strategic sensitive details declared for any arms deals.
The details of the extra cost involved of Rs 1,000 crores per plane includes design, development and technology transfer, whereas the old deal only had manufacturing 'on licence'. The only issue is the appointment of Reliance for technology transfer by Dassault Aviation, after HAL refused to accept liability for manufacturing of aircraft. It would be foolish to think that Dassault Aviation would transfer the technology to HAL (Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd) without the latter accepting any liability. The old deal negotiated by the Congress absolved HAL of any liability. Why doesn't Arun Shourie talk about that?
Very well conducted debate in an impressive way and manner by Ms Tamanna ji the anchor who possesses spontaneous worths and commands over the language . A very good credit to channel where intellects like Arun shourie ji and Abhijit I yer ji have brought theirs presence sparing valuable times in the studio. Pl do bring out such more healthy and peaceful programmes of the debates where expert opinions is disseminated to millions of the viewers who are keen to have a clear picture of the deal. Thanks Mam Anchor for an impressive show and presentations via your channel.
Quint: Arun Shouri on Rafale deal, President of India act superfast to book the cotery 1) First call Defence Minister of India and asked the price of Rafale deal. And get her written statement on what ever she knows about Rafale. 2) Then President must call Defence Secretary and ask about price of Rafale and give then and there only his statement about his not knowing or knowing about it 3) Then President of India must call Finance Minister and asked relevant questions on Rafale and get his written statement there in the house of President. 4) Then President of India must ask finance secretary about price of Rafale deel , wether presenction was there or not and obtained his written explanation in Black and white in his own hand writing. 5) THEN PRESIDENT OF INDIA CALL PRIME MINISTER OF INDIA and obtain Price for Rafale deal and have his written explanation in the office of President. PRESIDENT OF INDIA MUST ask Prime Minister of India that wether he has moral obligations towards PARLIAMENT, or under which section of Constitution of India , he had fixed contract with Rafale unilaterally.? And obtained his written explanation on the subject. In his own hand writing no matter in either Hindi Or English. 6) Then PRESIDENT OF INDIA MUST GROUP OF OPPOSITION WHO ARE MAKING HUGE CRY AND TRY TO UNDETSTAND THERE ARGUMENT AND OBTAINED IN WRITTEN FORMET. THERE After President must ask CHIEF OF AIR STAFF REGARDING WETHER HE AWARE OF THE PRISE AND WHAT ARE HIS GRIEVANCE REGARDING PURCHASE OF RAFALE AIR CRAFT. AFTER OBTAINING IN WRITTEN FORMATE FROM EACH AND EVERY SERVICE MAN OF INDIA , Entire writing President Must send to CHIEF JUSTICE OF INDIA , Wether to determine PRIMAFACIA EXISTS. MOMENT THERE IS AFFERMATIVE SIGNALS FROM CHIEF JUSTICE OF INDIA.PRESIDENT OF HINDUSTAN MUST ADVICE CHIEF JUSTICE OF INDIA TO DECLARE PRIMAFACIA EXISTS AGAINST THE GREAT CHOKIDAR OF COUNTRY. THEN PRESIDENT OF INDIA MUST MAKE SUFFICIENT ARRANGEMENT TO PROTECT HIM SELF AS WELL AS CHIEF JUSTICE OF SUPREME COURT OF INDIA. AND SEND ADVICE LETTER TO PM THAT YOU MUST RESIGN. IF HE DISOBEDIENCE WILL BE AND MUST BE VIEWED BY CHIEF OF ARMY AND FORCE PM TO RESIGNE. SIMALTENIOUSLY PRESIDENT OF INDIA ASK BJP PARTI TO ANNOUNCE NAME OF ALTERNATIVE PRIME MINISTER TILL THE NEXT ELECTION IS CARRIED OUT.IF HE DOES NOT RESIGN INFERENCES CAN BE DRAWN THAT VERI BED DAYS ARE AHED.
There is no scam as purported, instead the contractual specifications were renegotiated with completely new terms and conditions. Arun Shourie is trying to compare the old deal with the new deal --- both are independent of each other. Why the hell does he not understand? Has he lost his mind?
SOME IMPORTANT FACTS and DATAPOINTS INDIANS MUST KNOW... As provided by Deputy Air Chief himself... 1 - It was govt-to-govt negotiation - WITHOUT any middlemen (which India has been cursed of from time immemorial - Congress era) 2 - Negotiations were held by Indian Airforce itself (not by corrupt babus - first of its kind in Indian history) 3 - the basic barebone aircraft is 9% cheaper than what UPA was ready to agree for. 4 - the loaded aircraft is 23% cheaper than what UPA was ready to agree for. Here key point is, this also includes many technologies which were NOT even considered during UPA 5 - Because of payment terms and escalation clauses, net net current deal is 40% cheaper. 6 - The Indian version of Rafale has even more teeth than Rafale french airforce uses.. 7 - Offsets NOW aims at strategic development of Indian indigenous Aircraft industry, say for example multiple variants of Kaveri Engine.. Which were NOT even the aims of deals structure UPA was mulling on. 8 - It is lot cheaper than Turkey and Qatar deals (that too they do NOT have advanced customized versions - as India will have, point number 6) 9 - Current Indian specific Rafale will have agility to integrate indigenous components (like weapons, radars, communication links etc etc) thereby India will NOT be dependent on Rafale forever (lesson learnt from Russian deals in the past).. UPA deal was instead killing that aspect and like in past, they would have made India and IAF 100% dependent on Dassault. 10 - This deal ensures end to end serviceability and maintainability package. Thats an IMPORTANT key... because of congress's middlemen driven defense deals, even Sukhoi can not have more than 60-70% aircrafts in operations at any point in time... That biggest curse is removed from this deal structure...
There is definitely a scam in this deal otherwise d government would have disclosed d price of d jet n d India specific add-ons to the main opposition leaders under oath of secrecy that would have setaside all speculations.
You know so much about the defense deals the country makes . Why not file a case in court if you know so much? Kyu chup ho gaye? Karna kuch hai nahi bas bakwaas karwalo inse.
अरुण शौरी बेचारे की पूछ नहीं हो रही है तो भड़ास निकाल रहे हैं। मंत्री नही बनाया तो परेशान हैं और समझते हैं कि केवल वह ही अक्लमंद हैं, बाकी तो बेवकूफ हैं। अभी मंत्री बना दो, सारे आरोप झूठे हो जाएंगे। दोगलेपन की हद है इन जैसों की। और भी नाम है जैसे यशवंत सिन्हा, शत्रुघ्न सिन्हा, आदि।
So many people commenting over the defence and the defence deals. I bet, not many would make a difference between a gun and a rifle, a tank and a tractor, etc. It's hilarious that most still consider themselves defence equipment experts.
Let's apply same logic on RaGa. He was never a PM and therefore, should not dream about becoming a PM of India. Voters of India, teach him a lesson in 2019 and beyond.
INDIAN AIRFORCE IS IN URGENT REQUIREMENT OF AIR SQUADRONS IF WE GO ON DELAYING OUR AIRFORCE WILL BE WRECKED NO NEED OF PROBE TO LINGERING DECISION WILL DELAY OUR SQUADRON AGAINST NATIONAL INTEREST
Whats abhijit rattling off? So shouldnt air force, defence minister know knoww all the details he saying. Did finance minister say its financially un viable?
प्लेन की कीमत व संख्या बदलना या नये एसेसरी लगाना जो कि सरकार का कहना है तो ये नई डील ही होती है , समर्थक का ये कहना कि ये डील पुरानी है विरोधभासि है , एक जांच होनी चाहिए और जनता के सामने सच्चाई आनी चाहिए ।
There are 72 indian companies as part of the offset arrangement for technology transfer from Dassault Aviation for 'make in india' --- one needs to understand the deal which Abhijit has explained technically, whereas Arun Shourie seems to have a vested agenda in making a mountain out of a mole hill. As Abhijit said, if the Govt influenced selection of any of the 72 Indian companies (including Reliance), only then there is a motive, but is not the case. However, as Abhijit explained, the offset partners are selected by the Foreign vendor as per rules since 2005 which Arun Shourie did not know.
Criminal misconduct and abuse of office is very apparent here; Mr Modi, Mr Parrikar, and everyone involved (including Mr Anil Ambani) in this deal should be prosecuted in a court of law and brought to justice. As far as Abhijit Iyer-Mitra is concerened, I hope that you are teaching your children to be exactly follow your footsteps.
Mr.Arun Shourie, 126 planes to 36 planes. Today Tejas which is alleged to have completed 6000 hours of flying is keeping HAL bussy. They are laging in delivery. They have ordered 118 Tejas. Hence they can not do production of Rafael. Why should Rafael certify a plane made by HAL? 75% uptime of the aircraft is part of the renewed deal. As I understand defence procurement happens in 2 ways 1. Tender 2. Government to government deals. In government to government deals bribe is ruled out. Countries don't pay bribe money. According to.my understanding the offset clause does not mean aircraft, it means money spent in India. They could purchase anything even other than aircraft parts. Reliance could buy property and lease or have a joint venture with Rafael, Reliance is the provider of facility, Rafael is the user of facility to honour 75% uptime. They may pay rent or be a partner in the deal. Why will Rafael buy land in India? In addition to Reliance there are 71 other companies who are likely to be beneficiary of the offset clause. Original deal was to buy 18 aircraft in fly away condition, then manufacture rest in the country by HAL. UPA has dragged their feet for 13 long years compromising the country's defence. If planes are needed today, you can not start another 13 year process of tendering. By my calculations due to the escalation clause, if the escalation clause is 5% per year, it will increase the cost of aircraft by 62%. Add to this exchange rate fluctuation today the dollar is 70/- then it was 40. This adds another 45% to the cost. The total cost escalation according to me should be around 2.7 times, 170% increase. You are not purchasing potato from market. Fighter aircraft take time.to produce.
Now we have this round-bottomed analyst speaking on Rafael Deal. He knows everything and had his ears on the wall outside the room where the Indians and French were finalising the Rafael deal. I bet he won't know head or tail about a fighter aircraft, forget about Rafael.
if process is so important then we had to wait 10 yrs right? why cant any one go to court with details. why cant Shourie produce comparative document of UPA deal and NDA deal
Arun Shourie is comparing an old deal with a new deal (Comparing 126 aircraft in old deal with 36 aircraft in new deal). If a better deal has been negotiated by the NDA, there is no need to float a new tender. This is a wrong accusation and complete rubbish. Shows that Arun Shourie has no Public Procurement experience!
I think, it is safe for Modiji to cancel the Rafale - Ambani deal altogether, because it may drag him down in the next election in 2019. It is obvious that Ambani has paid a lot to the BJP but in exchange he should not expect Rs 50,000 Crores of public money and ruin a public sector company HAL. Ambanis ruined so far many public sector companies: ONGC, Oil Refinery, Telecom and now even a Defense Company. It will do a lot of good if Modiji disassociate himself from these Ambanis, they are absolutely corrupt. There is nothing wrong with MIG or SUKHOY or 5TH Generation Aircraft. These are much superior and much cheaper. France is not a country with high technology, in fact, it is a very ordinary country regarding technology. If DRDO can manufacture 5Th GENERATION aircraft, DRDO can manufacture Rafale which is equivalent to MIG29 almost. Thus, the question is Why Rafale and Why Ambani. Jetley is not answering these.
Abhijit Iyer Mitra should know Modi and Shah would drop him like hot potato once they are done with Rafael. He should work his way up the political ladder rather than being a sycophant of Shah Modi. He could learn a thing or two from Swamy or Shourie.
Shourie is experiencing his older moment. He is also experiencing his bitter moments. I for one do not accept these old age moments. If needed, I could debate this with all the neo-obstructionists They are bitter that they are no longer the part to the current progressive government of India that is taking the country forward leaps and bounds. Sitting here in DC, it is amazing how Indians try to bring down another Indian who is honest and taking the country forward. Fie on these characters.
Who is honest.Do you mean Modiji.If you are calling him honest why did he ditch HAL an indian Public Company.He wants to shut down a Govt owned Public Limited Company and is helping his Gujarathi friend Anil Ambani.
Mr.Arun how do u justify that this is a new deal when the present Govt. did not invite new tender. This govt. pushed the process of previous Govt. Why r u silent on the Off Set condition which also incorporates private partners? Further , that 50% reinvestment condition on foreigner intender gives the liberty to enhance the rates to be quoted. In the last, why u people do not produce the dossiers of 18 and compare this with cost of 36? Besides this, has present Govt refused to IAF not to fulfill their requirements?
Dassault was not willing to manufacture d aircraft jointly with hal which washaving years of experience in aircraft manufacturing. Than how come they agreed to manufacture Rafale aircraft parts with reliance def which is having zero experience in aircraft manufacturing. How come d govt okayed Dassault decision to go in a joint venture with reliance def knowing this. This surely raises eyebrows over d deal. The govt n Dassault company have surely recieved kickbacks from Ambani for giving this deal to them.
Arun Shourie is going down the drain. From a first rate intellectual who was respected, he is fast becoming a ridiculous loser out of shear frustration. He was one of the first to nominate Modi as leader of the nation and now he has turned his bitter critic because his plans have not worked out. And it seems some trollers have insulted him personally on social media. Now Shourie will sign off as a joker who spoiled all his standing out of hatred. What a shame !!!
मि अय्यर जिस तरीके से तथ्य तोड़ मरोड़ रहे है और कार की एसेसरी की कीमत कार की कीमत से अलग बताकर जस्टिफाई कर रहे है , क्या ये बात अधिकारी नही जानते ओर इसके लिए अप्रूवल की कोई जरूरत नहीं ?? ये कोई प्राइवेट कार परचेस नही की आप जो मर्जी एसेसरी लगवा ले या कोई दूसरी कार ही ले लें।
Addons don't cost double the price of a car or was UPA buying only aircraft frames for that kind of money. Tell that to the jahil andh bhakts. They may believe you.
Arun shouri should update his knowledge on the deal if he is so sure the he should go to the court with all the "fact" in give circumstance congress is trying to create a Bofors gun deal like situation which is not working.
Mr Shourie. Why don't u understand your opinions don't matter any more. When you were a minister in Vajpayee ministry also you were not being counted for any importance in the party. The government and the party have no utility of you at all As for the public , they never had any opinion of you in the first place. The remaining are presstitutes. Oh my, you yourself is one of them.
Modiji is wrong, he should have given the rafale offset deal to the 'Damad of India'. Robert vadra would have been best as local partner, there would never been a problem as far as land allocation is concerned.
Click here for full story: bit.ly/2P0U0pm
Abhijeet sir why don't you accept the knowledge of the respect old wise man.
Hats off to Arun Shourie for standing for the truth in spite of having roots in BJP. That's an honest man. Truth matters more than political affiliation. Great sir.
U r absolutely right
well said. an inspiration.
Hats off to Mr. Shourie. He has very clearly explained how the complexities and the time tested procedures that are being slowly thwarted and infringed.
You nailed it Mr Shourie. Interestingly I am simple middle class person working in an IT firm, been shouting everywhere that this deal was a scam, no one in my circle pays attention as they are busy feeding their family. I posted many blogs and posts on FB, but since I am not a VIP, no one interviewed me. Your words matches mine... 100% ... but you opened late.... I lost all faith on Modi and BJP. I regret voting them. .. Anil Ambani ne kabhi pankha nahi banaya... he only cheated and forged books.. he aquired Pipavav a debt ridden company just to board this deal. ......Parikkar was in Goa in a shop opening ceremony during PM visit to France, and guess who was there already "Anil Ambani"
Mukesh Singh SAHEB, there is no Rafale scam as yet. Let's get this thing straight.
In a inter governamental agreement whereis the mention of Reliance? Page and clause please. Mr. Shorie is a piece of old guard a lier always refers to his 40 years experience as journalist.....this is the true sign of a conniving lier......when his wicket is weak.....
Quint, I searched your whole site but there is no article on Vadra/Sanjay Bandari links with previous UPA's Rafale deal?
PM of India is not " emperor of India " such that he may announce any defence deal off the cuff.
Similarly announcing demonetisation
More important - how much money, how many hundreds or thousands of crores already given to Dassault and from them to Anil Ambani and then to Modi & Co?
Chacha , it has been 3 years , why hasn't been any court case in Rafale scam ...Why Opposition has become quiet ?? If rafale aircraft is a scam ,then tell us from where will Airforce get its Aircraft,which is falling rapidly ?? Do you have any Idea from where the planes will come...Arun shourie , Lal Krishna Advani , Yashwant sinha , Murli Manohar Joshi are not been in power and they are frustated ..If there is scam , why did Opposition argued the case in Supreme Court...
@@rajaram3190 We should develop indigenous manufacturing and technologies [like China] and not just depend on foreign companies. Earlier agreement was a bit OK since it provided for transfer of technology and manufacture by our own public sector organization. Now everything upset and paying huge price, with the usual kickbacks and commissions, they are just looting the public exchequer - all moneys are our tax paid and we cannot afford to spend for their aiyashis and corrupt incomes.
@@malliksharma What is new in it our whole Independence Struggle under congress was under slogan "Swadeshi" , Now where is that Swadeshi Spirit ? Why did it falter ? We have Hundereds of OFBs ,why there is no indigenous guns made in last 73 years ? Similarly i can argue on and on other weapon system...
Modi hell bent to help Ambani brothers to loot India..
And she deliberately tries to derail the discussion says that offset is the heart of the controversy, which arun shourie successfully explains
Arun shourie buried then with facts. The anchor looked so uncomfortable. She had nothing to argue back with. Truth is emphatic and cannot be deflected with lies
France reduced... Ok it's France and India is not France.
France is in European union India has China and Pak sharing a border. Please don't compare it for justification.
You know how European union function.
france is currently fighting various wars be it in syria, afganistan . india is not all fighting a war right now so that that . moreover if we end up having a war with china and pak , we can use all of trio- navy,army,airforce But france can only use airforce to fight against syria
Tejas Arora
But France is not at war with Syria.
Modi govt losses the faith of people.
George Tharayil There is no Rafale scam as yet. The congress party and some old uncles are misleading the country for electoral gains.
George Tharayil The clincher that is - angle of Reliance defence , a company incorporated just 10 days before signing of this controversial deal ( & not PSU HAL )...!
Smells of textbook case of cronyism & potential quid pro quo ,hence corruption ?
Any patriotic Indian would question this !
sheldon pereira
So securing India, countering China and Pakistan or in other word, India's Defense deals are as easy as sheldon pereira's purchase of a phone. Are you in your senses ?
There is no Rafale scam as yet. Let's not get mislead by the INC. They are lying to the nation.
sheldon pereira
*#5.* My government Change and you come, 2014.
*#6.* You re-start the negotiations, halted since 2012, for nearly a year and realize the negotiations are leading nowhere. You are also apprised of the 'critical' situation your family is in.
*#7.* Additional roadblocks:
A. - Before 2014, when I was in charge, during negotiations, I had made an agreement with D that if I and D were to engage in a deal then the final price would be calculated on the fixed cost formula that allowed D to include additional price of 3.9 % Inflation Indices from day 1 of the deal. So, if you were to go with the deal ahead, you would end up paying an additional cost of Inflation Indices.
B. - Change of technology in 5-6 years. You were apprised that your family (IAF) would like to change the phone after five years - the phones were required since 2004. The phones technology in 2004 - 2007 -2010- -2012 -2014 2015 have changed considerably. And in future, it’s technology would deplete. You don't want to have mere paperweights in your pockets after five/ten years. You are also told by your family (IAF) that it will be detrimental if the family is not upgraded
C. - budgetary allocation.
Why does BJP think that all people are fools
Pravin Utankar there is no Rafale scam as yet. The congress party and some old uncles are misleading the country for electoral gains.
few dalits liks you think so
Coz the same people keep voting for them
Nice coverage...Hope no one plays politics on national security
Rather than going to media, people like arun shouri should go to the court.
Exactly. They can't . Their allegations will be thrashed in court . Elections are coming everyone will know they are just spreading rumours and they will lose . These guys give 0 shit about the country all they want is to politicise every issue and gain footage without legally proceeding anything
He will not go court till the elections of 2019 since that is what is main aim ,to corner Modi. In one breath he says that air force has been made disadvantaged and he will take his own time to go to court,till then air force will suffer. And it the court cancels the deal it will do more harm to airforce. SC was forced to revieve the arrests of the urban naxals over night. I am really amused with anchor and Mr. Abhijith both of them were very raptly listening to shouire and making him going on talking and talking and at end the loosing all his steam.The two young persons are really wise .
Arun Shourie your statements hits the nail on the head.
Govt is in a deep trouble .. The opposition has very strong facts. Just Modi charisma is not going to save the BJP. they need to come up with strong justifications. Most of the times the debates that I have seen have on this topic has landed BJP reps questioning opposition's image when they were ruling, mostly by highlighting Coal-gate , 2 G etc . But BJP reps are not in a position to objectively counter the oppositions claims.
There is simply no justifications for cancelling the previous deal. Had we gone for the same we would have procured the planes in Bulk , manufactured 108 of them here and would have saved on service.
What a comeback arun, abhijit's arguments were really strong for a big portion of video but shouri got him good in last 15 min
Mr Shourie tore this guy apart! Hats off to you sir, people like you are the only hope.
If " due procedure of law " is not followed, it itself is grounds enough to critically examine this controversial deal !!
Anchor is going on asking same thing so that abhijit gets to read the messages from bjp cell tracking this interview. Look at him glued to his phone!
Government shoddy in communication ? What about Mr Modi,s reputation as great communicator ? Mr Sourie is absolutely right our PM is great in rabble rousing or when he has any (usually frivolous) answer at all.
Arun Shourie u r such an awesome guy. Tht so called defence analyst and idiotic anchor both were superbly handled and given apt treatment. The ending is the best where he says media should also do some work 😂😂
The body of Abhijit clearly shows ....that he is a crook .....look at his eyes .... he is looking around probably for prompts from sources around ..... sounds very manipulative ..... perfectly chosen for Modi agenda. God bless this country
"गली, कूचों में शोर हे देश का मौजूदा चौकीदार चोर हे, चोर हे ,चोर हे। यानि मोदी चोर हे "
There is no DEFENCE on the questions and facts stated by Mr. Arun Shourie. Mr. Shourie is a genius. I am very impressed by the manner in which he stated all the facts.
We need educated people who are honest running the Government.
After working in state govt even amount exceeding 10% of the tendered amount can’t be approved without revising the estimate and obtaining Administrative Sanction of govt. This has to go through entire hierarchy of particular deptt. No Minister can change any tender unilaterally and ask for change entire scope of work.
I don't seem to understand why the government is unable to explain the points raised by Arun Shourie makes just like Abhijit is explaining in this debate. Hiding all information, especially about why the number of aircraft were reduced from 126 to 36; behind secrecy clause and official secrets is bad in spirit and taste.
Ashwin Valecha there is no Rafale scam as yet. The congress party and some old uncles are misleading the country for electoral gains.
The MOU's between the countries were signed for a fresh 'urgent' deal. The old deal of 126 odd fighter jets was cancelled as its negotiations were not going anywhere due to the lowest pricing being offered by the then government. That's the reason why the French Aircraft Manufacturer, Dassault, had put India's offer in its *L-1(lowest bidder)* category. There was no signed deal. The Congress is doing this on purpose for electoral benefit.
This government proposed a fresh deal of 32 jets in flying conditions with training facility, tot under make in India, missile technology, and spares. This is the first time when babus were accompanied by IAF SERVING officers who negotiated this fresh deal of 36 jets.
Greko Kumbawa I don't completely agree with you on this. If the Modi government is clean in this transaction, why is it not forthcoming to explain in detail, if not to the public, then to parliamentarians, that laid down processes have been followed at every step of the new deal. It must also explain how 126 became 36 i.e. were 126 with all hi tech add-ons and ammunition absolutely unaffordable?? Whether there was written consent from the IAF to have the bare minimum squadron strength for this aircraft? How does it plan to make up for the gap in the IAF's squadron requirement. Is it the Tejas which is going to fulfill that gap. If not, then what? The Tejas programme is not going as planned with HAL dragging it's feet and it doesn't seem that they have been able to really reform HAL. Why wasn't a new tender floated for requirements beyond 36 in 2015 itself? The problem is this government promised speedy and transparent decision making and now they're shying away from answering simple questions. Nobody is asking for mission critical details to be given out.
Ashwin Valecha 1/n
Imagine I have allotted 100 Rupees and I want to 'urgently' purchase 126 phones, in 2004.
The requirement at my home is at a urgent stage which would be critical if my family requirements are not met. So I put a tender notice.
Now I select a 'manufacturer 'D (dasslt)' of a country 'F(francie)', in as late as 2011; I tell him that I will be buying 18 of those phones off-the-shelf (basic phone body).And he will have to manufacture the 108 phones (basic phone body) in my company 'H(hal)'.
I haven’t negotiated about it’s OS/Softwares/RAM/Internal Memory Card/slots, sound system, camera and resolutions, the apps, MS office. I am thinking of negotiating with different companies, for instance,with Android - iOS. - MS - OTHERS FOR my phone’s OS, google, sony-canon for cameras, and so on. That was to be done later once the manufacturing starts with H.
Ashwin Valecha 2/n
The price quoted by D was humongous, much higher than the allotted Rs. 100. So D straightaway puts me in ‘LOWEST BIDDER’ list as I did not reveal that part to D. This is on record.
D is not ready to take responsibility for 108 phones to be manufactured in H(HAL,my home PSU company). D refuses to give manufacturing license to H. He is not ready to train my people for maintainence. He is not giving me spares [Test case:Su30MKI - Russians always raise the cost of the spares later]. He won’t service them. And so on. All this is for a basic phone body.
His condition of manufacturing the 108 phones in 30 million man hours is rejected by my home company, H(hal). H insists on 100 million man hours. There is dissatisfaction and disagreement with D and he is not ready to cope, as the technology changes very fast. You family (IAF) supports D’s claim. They don’t want another 20-25 years in manufacturing when the technology changes[Test case: Tejas ]
I also don’t help the negotiation by bringing all the files back to my table - It stays there unattended on my table for 2 years.
So the negotiations with D are stuck for another 3 years. The roadblocks are constant and growing. The technology is changing constantly. And you are yet to negotiate about phone’s Equipments, Softwares, Apps, etc.with either D or various other companies.
Abhijit seems to be just a student of the story but does not seems to understand how government procedures and other cronies. He seems to be clearly biased towards Reliance and Few individuals in the govt.
who on earth uses a fighter plane as a nuclear delivery device 36 or 126 no one uses it for dropping nukes i think Abhijit Iyer-Mitra has lost all sense of strategic defense procurement rational.
Audumbar Chaugule there is no Rafale scam as yet. The congress party and some old uncles are misleading the country for electoral gains.
US China Russian UK France all have aircraft capable to deliver nuclear weapons. I think u are wiser of all
that abhijit saying 126 would have cost very high but he must know 18 were fly away condtion and and wages are 4 time higher so but from 90 thousand crore for 126 and 65 thousands crore for 36, wisdome is resting in peace , arun shouri thanks for making me uderstand the dabate level and listening capability how to listen to others, even there are crape from other side
Who are the people who evaluate a certain defense acquisition? Do they change with governments? Was the UPA government purchasing aircraft without adequate weapons systems and strike capabilities? Were they being bought for joyrides? If the pool of experts remains virtually the same from 2012 to 2016 why is it so confusing? New Deal Old Deal Same Deal WTH?
Asked why Anil Ambani was chosen as the offsets partner for Rafale, an unnamed French official reportedly said: "Il fallait un homme qui puisse sussurer dans l'oreille du cheval." We needed a man (a jockey) who could whisper into the horse's ear." - Dr Mohan Guruswamy (Chairman, Centre for Policy Alternatives)
Kapil Khattar 👍👍👍👍👍
This proves Who's the Jocky and Who's the Horse.😎😎😎😎😎
We
Must be checked whether this "defence expert " is on payroll of dassault or for that matter reliance defence. His antecedents & affiliations must be checked.
The Rafael Deal: It is important for democracy that should be run in a mode of open and transparent manner to ask question of on the policy, implementation and budget cost of any government. The Parliamentary democracy provides for accountability through a series of layers that protects the sensitive matters related to defence and security. The departmental structures are also evolved to professionally plan and deliver Ministerial decisions that is best in the interest of the country. The powers of the politicians have a major potential for exploitations on the grounds of political or financial corruptions. Therefore, foundation of ‘good governance’ must be applied to ensure that decision is accountable to the Parliament. In the case of Rafael case, it seems to be failing. Nowadays, when the private sector is allowed to enter into defence procurement of goods and services, there is the need to strengthen the process where the politicians are kept at a distance in influencing selections of preferences of such interests. In a more ideal scenario the process should be robust and managed by the defence personnel. If the Government from the political perspective starts ‘misinformation’ exercise to protect their actions where preferences are seen to be shifted to the private sector of their own favourites, then it is a serious breach that may lead to compromising national security. There is no reason to hold a Joint Parliamentary Inquiry, with powers to recommend exposures or relevant facts, safeguarding the security aspects to the parliament.
@thequint I seem to not be able to share this video on Facebook..it's getting flagged even before it gets posted... It is quite unusual. Could you please look into that and let us know the reason why??
Wow did this senior fellow just told us that when Defence Minister announced the price in parliament he was talking about a fighter plane without engines? And that he knows 36 planes are enough for my India? What an audacity!!
Abhijeet iyer demolishes Arun shoirie and Gave a solid kick on his ass.
Mr Iyer, Come on, Mr Abhijit your arguments are rubbish. So when we go to car dealer to buy a car the price what the dealer quote is only for chassis. How can the price of Rafale aircraft go up by 300%. Why HAL was ignored? You are talking in favour of Govt. so that your position is secure.
Even if there is nothing new have the old points been replied to?
Not only Anil Ambani is a lousy businessman but he is also dishonest. Like father, like son, like brother.
I too had similar doubts Mr Arun Shourie had regarding Price of Rafel Multi Medium Combat Aircraft inked by NDA ,but after reading the an article on the price paid by Qutar and Saudi Arabia from Dassault for similar aircraft the things are cleared and I don't think we have paid more .
Shourie Sir, you are so patient and explaining. Abhijeet first learn the responsibility. Don't be blind
Wow, now Quint have good looking journalist
Not only good looking but has attracting eyes.
What about the nose?
60000 crore and govt have nothing to do who dassu choose as partner .. Wow Mr expert ..
thanks for sharing The Quint
There were negotiations for many many years and no decision was taken during UPA regime. There was NO deal...
The Air Force was running short of Fighter Jets...
The 36 Jets were bought off the shelf by NDA, whereas the "negotiations"126 Jets were to be manufactured by Dassault and others by HAL.
Reliance has been selected by Dassault for part of the offset agreement for parts etc...
Price for base fighters agreed by NDA is cheaper than the price "negotiated" by the UPA. The cost of weapon systems (radar-missiles) etc is independent of the base price and sensitive details are never declared to the parliament. There is no precedence of strategic sensitive details declared for any arms deals.
The details of the extra cost involved of Rs 1,000 crores per plane includes design, development and technology transfer, whereas the old deal only had manufacturing 'on licence'. The only issue is the appointment of Reliance for technology transfer by Dassault Aviation, after HAL refused to accept liability for manufacturing of aircraft. It would be foolish to think that Dassault Aviation would transfer the technology to HAL (Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd) without the latter accepting any liability. The old deal negotiated by the Congress absolved HAL of any liability. Why doesn't Arun Shourie talk about that?
So finally, what happened in Supreme Court with all the brilliant arguments given by Arun Shourie and gang. Zilch!!
Very well conducted debate in an impressive way and manner by Ms Tamanna ji the anchor who possesses spontaneous worths and commands over the language . A very good credit to channel where intellects like Arun shourie ji and Abhijit I yer ji have brought theirs presence sparing valuable times in the studio. Pl do bring out such more healthy and peaceful programmes of the debates where expert opinions is disseminated to millions of the viewers who are keen to have a clear picture of the deal. Thanks Mam Anchor for an impressive show and presentations via your channel.
As someone whose kin is involved in both tenders I can say with authority there is no corruption. The CAG report will testify it.
I regret voting for modi last time.
Quint: Arun Shouri on Rafale deal,
President of India act superfast to book the cotery
1) First call Defence Minister of India and asked the price of Rafale deal. And get her written statement on what ever she knows about Rafale.
2) Then President must call Defence Secretary and ask about price of Rafale and give then and there only his statement about his not knowing or knowing about it
3) Then President of India must call Finance Minister and asked relevant questions on Rafale and get his written statement there in the house of President.
4) Then President of India must ask finance secretary about price of Rafale deel , wether presenction was there or not and obtained his written explanation in Black and white in his own hand writing.
5) THEN PRESIDENT OF INDIA CALL PRIME MINISTER OF INDIA and obtain Price for Rafale deal and have his written explanation in the office of President.
PRESIDENT OF INDIA MUST ask Prime Minister of India that wether he has moral obligations towards PARLIAMENT, or under which section of Constitution of India , he had fixed contract with Rafale unilaterally.? And obtained his written explanation on the subject. In his own hand writing no matter in either Hindi Or English.
6) Then PRESIDENT OF INDIA MUST GROUP OF OPPOSITION WHO ARE MAKING HUGE CRY AND TRY TO UNDETSTAND THERE ARGUMENT AND OBTAINED IN WRITTEN FORMET.
THERE After President must ask CHIEF OF AIR STAFF REGARDING WETHER HE AWARE OF THE PRISE AND WHAT ARE HIS GRIEVANCE REGARDING PURCHASE OF RAFALE AIR CRAFT.
AFTER OBTAINING IN WRITTEN FORMATE FROM EACH AND EVERY SERVICE MAN OF INDIA , Entire writing President Must send to CHIEF JUSTICE OF INDIA , Wether to determine PRIMAFACIA EXISTS.
MOMENT THERE IS AFFERMATIVE SIGNALS FROM CHIEF JUSTICE OF INDIA.PRESIDENT OF HINDUSTAN MUST ADVICE CHIEF JUSTICE OF INDIA TO DECLARE PRIMAFACIA EXISTS AGAINST THE GREAT CHOKIDAR OF COUNTRY.
THEN PRESIDENT OF INDIA MUST MAKE SUFFICIENT ARRANGEMENT TO PROTECT HIM SELF AS WELL AS CHIEF JUSTICE OF SUPREME COURT OF INDIA.
AND SEND ADVICE LETTER TO PM THAT YOU MUST RESIGN.
IF HE DISOBEDIENCE WILL BE AND MUST BE VIEWED BY CHIEF OF ARMY AND FORCE PM TO RESIGNE.
SIMALTENIOUSLY PRESIDENT OF INDIA ASK BJP PARTI TO ANNOUNCE NAME OF ALTERNATIVE PRIME MINISTER TILL THE NEXT ELECTION IS CARRIED OUT.IF HE DOES NOT RESIGN INFERENCES CAN BE DRAWN THAT VERI BED DAYS ARE AHED.
Mr Shourie ,you were at one time someone who we all looked upto.Now you are better known for the company you keep.
This expert didn't give any fact just. Talking...
Arun Shourie is taking revenge by being ignored by Modi
We need to probe Shourie’s brain. We are likely to find nothing there.
There is no scam as purported, instead the contractual specifications were renegotiated with completely new terms and conditions. Arun Shourie is trying to compare the old deal with the new deal --- both are independent of each other. Why the hell does he not understand? Has he lost his mind?
France must transfer technology to India and be fair.
SOME IMPORTANT FACTS and DATAPOINTS INDIANS MUST KNOW...
As provided by Deputy Air Chief himself...
1 - It was govt-to-govt negotiation - WITHOUT any middlemen (which India has been cursed of from time immemorial - Congress era)
2 - Negotiations were held by Indian Airforce itself (not by corrupt babus - first of its kind in Indian history)
3 - the basic barebone aircraft is 9% cheaper than what UPA was ready to agree for.
4 - the loaded aircraft is 23% cheaper than what UPA was ready to agree for. Here key point is, this also includes many technologies which were NOT even considered during UPA
5 - Because of payment terms and escalation clauses, net net current deal is 40% cheaper.
6 - The Indian version of Rafale has even more teeth than Rafale french airforce uses..
7 - Offsets NOW aims at strategic development of Indian indigenous Aircraft industry, say for example multiple variants of Kaveri Engine.. Which were NOT even the aims of deals structure UPA was mulling on.
8 - It is lot cheaper than Turkey and Qatar deals (that too they do NOT have advanced customized versions - as India will have, point number 6)
9 - Current Indian specific Rafale will have agility to integrate indigenous components (like weapons, radars, communication links etc etc) thereby India will NOT be dependent on Rafale forever (lesson learnt from Russian deals in the past).. UPA deal was instead killing that aspect and like in past, they would have made India and IAF 100% dependent on Dassault.
10 - This deal ensures end to end serviceability and maintainability package. Thats an IMPORTANT key... because of congress's middlemen driven defense deals, even Sukhoi can not have more than 60-70% aircrafts in operations at any point in time... That biggest curse is removed from this deal structure...
After the testification of air cheif marshal B S Dhanoa on this entire deal....i literally dont give a damm on the words of a journalist.
Nuclear delivery is not what Rafale Aircraft is meant for!
There is definitely a scam in this deal otherwise d government would have disclosed d price of d jet n d India specific add-ons to the main opposition leaders under oath of secrecy that would have setaside all speculations.
urbano pereira yes bro. You 've made a very valid point. But the government is in no mood at all to disclose anything.
Deal mai jaroor Kala hey.
You know so much about the defense deals the country makes .
Why not file a case in court if you know so much?
Kyu chup ho gaye? Karna kuch hai nahi bas bakwaas karwalo inse.
Ppl not going to court bcuz the court is also under the control of govt.
Did you forget what those 3 SC Judge told the country??
@@apurvchaturvedi no point talking to a bhakt sitting in BJP IT cell in Delhi.
अरुण शौरी बेचारे की पूछ नहीं हो रही है तो भड़ास निकाल रहे हैं। मंत्री नही बनाया तो परेशान हैं और समझते हैं कि केवल वह ही अक्लमंद हैं, बाकी तो बेवकूफ हैं। अभी मंत्री बना दो, सारे आरोप झूठे हो जाएंगे। दोगलेपन की हद है इन जैसों की। और भी नाम है जैसे यशवंत सिन्हा, शत्रुघ्न सिन्हा, आदि।
So many people commenting over the defence and the defence deals. I bet, not many would make a difference between a gun and a rifle, a tank and a tractor, etc. It's hilarious that most still consider themselves defence equipment experts.
Let's apply same logic on RaGa. He was never a PM and therefore, should not dream about becoming a PM of India. Voters of India, teach him a lesson in 2019 and beyond.
INDIAN AIRFORCE IS IN URGENT REQUIREMENT OF AIR SQUADRONS IF WE GO ON DELAYING OUR AIRFORCE WILL BE WRECKED NO NEED OF PROBE TO LINGERING DECISION WILL DELAY OUR SQUADRON AGAINST NATIONAL INTEREST
Whats abhijit rattling off? So shouldnt air force, defence minister know knoww all the details he saying. Did finance minister say its financially un viable?
Anjana Kumar Ma'am, there is no Rafale scam as yet. The congress and a few others are misleading the country.
प्लेन की कीमत व संख्या बदलना या नये एसेसरी लगाना जो कि सरकार का कहना है तो ये नई डील ही होती है , समर्थक का ये कहना कि ये डील पुरानी है विरोधभासि है , एक जांच होनी चाहिए और जनता के सामने सच्चाई आनी चाहिए ।
On what basis did Dassault select a Company formed just ten days back rejecting HAL?
There are 72 indian companies as part of the offset arrangement for technology transfer from Dassault Aviation for 'make in india' --- one needs to understand the deal which Abhijit has explained technically, whereas Arun Shourie seems to have a vested agenda in making a mountain out of a mole hill. As Abhijit said, if the Govt influenced selection of any of the 72 Indian companies (including Reliance), only then there is a motive, but is not the case. However, as Abhijit explained, the offset partners are selected by the Foreign vendor as per rules since 2005 which Arun Shourie did not know.
Criminal misconduct and abuse of office is very apparent here; Mr Modi, Mr Parrikar, and everyone involved (including Mr Anil Ambani) in this deal should be prosecuted in a court of law and brought to justice. As far as Abhijit Iyer-Mitra is concerened, I hope that you are teaching your children to be exactly follow your footsteps.
Mr.Arun Shourie, 126 planes to 36 planes. Today Tejas which is alleged to have completed 6000 hours of flying is keeping HAL bussy. They are laging in delivery. They have ordered 118 Tejas. Hence they can not do production of Rafael. Why should Rafael certify a plane made by HAL?
75% uptime of the aircraft is part of the renewed deal.
As I understand defence procurement happens in 2 ways 1. Tender 2. Government to government deals. In government to government deals bribe is ruled out. Countries don't pay bribe money.
According to.my understanding the offset clause does not mean aircraft, it means money spent in India. They could purchase anything even other than aircraft parts. Reliance could buy property and lease or have a joint venture with Rafael, Reliance is the provider of facility, Rafael is the user of facility to honour 75% uptime. They may pay rent or be a partner in the deal. Why will Rafael buy land in India?
In addition to Reliance there are 71 other companies who are likely to be beneficiary of the offset clause.
Original deal was to buy 18 aircraft in fly away condition, then manufacture rest in the country by HAL. UPA has dragged their feet for 13 long years compromising the country's defence. If planes are needed today, you can not start another 13 year process of tendering.
By my calculations due to the escalation clause, if the escalation clause is 5% per year, it will increase the cost of aircraft by 62%. Add to this exchange rate fluctuation today the dollar is 70/- then it was 40. This adds another 45% to the cost. The total cost escalation according to me should be around 2.7 times, 170% increase.
You are not purchasing potato from market. Fighter aircraft take time.to produce.
Modi from chowkidar to facilitator to baghidars... Has taken a quantam leap....
Did anyone else feel that Abhijit Iyer-Mitra was very well paid to just speak nonsense. I wonder if these people have any shame at all.
Now we have this round-bottomed analyst speaking on Rafael Deal. He knows everything and had his ears on the wall outside the room where the Indians and French were finalising the Rafael deal.
I bet he won't know head or tail about a fighter aircraft, forget about Rafael.
Arun shouri is way off, he has a grudge that he is not in government. Nothing less or more.
if process is so important then we had to wait 10 yrs right? why cant any one go to court with details. why cant Shourie produce comparative document of UPA deal and NDA deal
Arun Shourie is comparing an old deal with a new deal (Comparing 126 aircraft in old deal with 36 aircraft in new deal). If a better deal has been negotiated by the NDA, there is no need to float a new tender. This is a wrong accusation and complete rubbish. Shows that Arun Shourie has no Public Procurement experience!
I think, it is safe for Modiji to cancel the Rafale - Ambani deal altogether, because it may drag him down in the next election in 2019. It is obvious that Ambani has paid a lot to the BJP but in exchange he should not expect Rs 50,000 Crores of public money and ruin a public sector company HAL. Ambanis ruined so far many public sector companies: ONGC, Oil Refinery, Telecom and now even a Defense Company. It will do a lot of good if Modiji disassociate himself from these Ambanis, they are absolutely corrupt.
There is nothing wrong with MIG or SUKHOY or 5TH Generation Aircraft. These are much superior and much cheaper. France is not a country with high technology, in fact, it is a very ordinary country regarding technology. If DRDO can manufacture 5Th GENERATION aircraft, DRDO can manufacture Rafale which is equivalent to MIG29 almost. Thus, the question is Why Rafale and Why Ambani. Jetley is not answering these.
The frustrated, jobless, mischief-mongering Trio.
Abhijit Iyer Mitra should know Modi and Shah would drop him like hot potato once they are done with Rafael. He should work his way up the political ladder rather than being a sycophant of Shah Modi. He could learn a thing or two from Swamy or Shourie.
Mr. Abijeet schooled by Arun Shourie!
Why Arun Shouri had not doubted the Agasta and HDW?
Much respects to Arun Shourie.
Shourie is experiencing his older moment. He is also experiencing his bitter moments. I for one do not accept these old age moments. If needed, I could debate this with all the neo-obstructionists They are bitter that they are no longer the part to the current progressive government of India that is taking the country forward leaps and bounds. Sitting here in DC, it is amazing how Indians try to bring down another Indian who is honest and taking the country forward. Fie on these characters.
Who is honest.Do you mean Modiji.If you are calling him honest why did he ditch HAL an indian Public Company.He wants to shut down a Govt owned Public Limited Company and is helping his Gujarathi friend Anil Ambani.
Mr.Arun how do u justify that this is a new deal when the present Govt. did not invite new tender. This govt. pushed the process of previous Govt.
Why r u silent on the Off Set condition which also incorporates private partners? Further , that 50% reinvestment condition on foreigner intender gives the liberty to enhance the rates to be quoted.
In the last, why u people do not produce the dossiers of 18 and compare this with cost of 36?
Besides this, has present Govt refused to IAF not to fulfill their requirements?
What's stopping them from going to court huh? 😂
If they go to court Modi will escape by saying it is subjudice and will not reveal the truth.
Dassault was not willing to manufacture d aircraft jointly with hal which washaving years of experience in aircraft manufacturing. Than how come they agreed to manufacture Rafale aircraft parts with reliance def which is having zero experience in aircraft manufacturing. How come d govt okayed Dassault decision to go in a joint venture with reliance def knowing this. This surely raises eyebrows over d deal. The govt n Dassault company have surely recieved kickbacks from Ambani for giving this deal to them.
Arun Shourie is going down the drain. From a first rate intellectual who was respected, he is fast becoming a ridiculous loser out of shear frustration. He was one of the first to nominate Modi as leader of the nation and now he has turned his bitter critic because his plans have not worked out. And it seems some trollers have insulted him personally on social media. Now Shourie will sign off as a joker who spoiled all his standing out of hatred. What a shame !!!
मि अय्यर जिस तरीके से तथ्य तोड़ मरोड़ रहे है और कार की एसेसरी की कीमत कार की कीमत से अलग बताकर जस्टिफाई कर रहे है , क्या ये बात अधिकारी नही जानते ओर इसके लिए अप्रूवल की कोई जरूरत नहीं ?? ये कोई प्राइवेट कार परचेस नही की आप जो मर्जी एसेसरी लगवा ले या कोई दूसरी कार ही ले लें।
Addons don't cost double the price of a car or was UPA buying only aircraft frames for that kind of money. Tell that to the jahil andh bhakts. They may believe you.
I have no doubts on his(Arun shourie) intelligence.
Wonderful debate.
Why reduce to just 36 Aircraft?? The IAF needs nearly 250!
Arun shouri should update his knowledge on the deal if he is so sure the he should go to the court with all the "fact" in give circumstance congress is trying to create a Bofors gun deal like situation which is not working.
abhijit Nair whoever he is must listen to Arun ji. speaking in English does not make anyone a learned person.
Mr Shourie. Why don't u understand your opinions don't matter any more. When you were a minister in Vajpayee ministry also you were not being counted for any importance in the party. The government and the party have no utility of you at all As for the public , they never had any opinion of you in the first place. The remaining are presstitutes. Oh my, you yourself is one of them.
Mother of all defence deal became mother of all defence scam.
Such a nice debate
Modiji is wrong, he should have given the rafale offset deal to the 'Damad of India'. Robert vadra would have been best as local partner, there would never been a problem as far as land allocation is concerned.
मि अय्यर का ये कहना कि आर्थिक कारणों से प्लेन की संख्या कम कर दी , ये कोई समझदारी का जवाब नहीं है ,