I'm a 2 channel "audiophile" and I can say that Dirac is a must have. Even if you have a dedicated room (as I do) getting the bass and integrating subs becomes very challenging and even after you get them "perfect" you will have imbalances. Dirac fixes a lot of it and takes it 3 levels up. Getting Dirac is much better than spending money on cables or other expensive "tweaks" that don't do anywhere as much of an improvement as Dirac does. It's a must have.
The new miniDSP Flex digital version (for room correction purposes) will allow you to run Dirac in the digital domain and output that digitally to your favorite DAC. This way, the sonic characteristics of your DAC are preserved. If your source is digital (CD, streamers), there is no ADC at all.
Dirac Live can not fix incorrect speaker and listening positioning. Tested it and proved it . Yes you will hear a difference, but if you get your positioning placement alignment correctly done first, then it is even more magical. You need to get your speaker and listening positioning placement 100% first. That's the key, for Dirac Live to work at its best.
People are looking for a magic pill without understanding the complexities involved - thanks for being a voice of reason - with mad people in charge of governments & medicine - voice of reason can sound like a strange thing ;-)
Whoever buy DSPs to think they can do wonder with inaccurate placed Setups or Echoey rooms dont understand the sense behind them. Speaker Placement > Room Treatment > DSP / EQ / Correction... But of course you can Measure when your room isnt treated fully to experiment with the EQ. Thats also helps a lot to fix a little bit the peaks and come closer to an balanced music playback even without an acoustic concept. But most ,Audiophiles, are miles away to accept this technology. DSPs & Digital Correction are still for a lot of people a ,devils tool, and unacceptable... for whatever reason
Thank you for the video! In the past I've used, Sonarworks, IK ARC (1&2) and hand made corrections with REW and miniDSP (non Dirac). Have been happy with results, so didn't need to test Dirac. Turns out I should have tried Dirac much sooner. They were not fooling with the impulse response correction. Without the correction, the music was "stuck" to my speakers. After the correction I managed to get a really strong center image and much improved sound stage. Disclaimer: my studio is acoustically treated so that might help Dirac to achieve such great results. Wasn't planning on getting yet another correction tool, but this was an instant buy after testing.
I think it depends on the situation what you have. I´m using Dirac Live in a living room without any room treatment, but that will happen in the future, but I´m mostly using it for watching movies. I also use a miniDSP 2x4HD for LFE-Channel. With treatment and REW, you can almost reach the same I think if you know, what you´re doing. DL has an algorythm. You can also use FIR and IIR - Filters but this goes beyond my REW-skills, if you don´t know already, there are a lot of beta versions available at audio nirvana, they improve it all the time, so REW is a very good free program. DL is very expensive in comparison, you can buy better gear in terms of what you save from not buying it ;) Just my few cents =)
@@tommyshoe-star1426 I have ended up using a hybrid setup. miniDSP for the sub/mains crossover and then Dirac Live for the frequency and phase correction (to a hand made House Curve). For me, the Dirac produces better (frequency & phase) correction than I can do with REW + rePhase + miniDSP combo. Just like you said, it depends on the situation what works and doesn't work.
Thanks for you guys input. That really is this question is whether or not it is better than the less expensive options. It’s not whether it is better than nothing. I hear those comparisons all the time with speaker cable where they will say x or y brand speaker cable sounded so much better than basic lamp wire. The question should be does it sound better than something of the same gauge that cost half the price. It sounds like in this case it might be worth the extra money but I’m struggling to figure out how to get it in my 5.1 system. I thought at one point miniDSP made units like the 2x4 HD that had a lot more inputs and outputs but I don’t see them now. I need at least 6 inputs and 6 outputs for the 6 outputs from my preamp. I guess I could buy three 2x4s for $675 and use REW or $1500 for the Dirac Live versions.
This sounds like great product for correcting your room harmonics while saving money and arguments with family members. Thanks for bringing us this information.
Yes, it is required. I just purchased the DDRC-24. After many hours of listening to DIRAC live, it improves my listening experience on everything except for content that is more vocally biased. Dirac Live takes what is perceived as musicality out of the voices, at least in the environments I have tried the unit. In this case, the color that the room introduces does benefit. Maybe I am just highly accustomed to the haze that adds more character to the voices.
Imo, Dirac is incredible, but it is best when you only adjust for lower frequencies. I bring the adjustment curtain up for 200hz and then let the rest go naturally. For my situation this worked out really well. I'm using the miniDSP SHD so I'm sure the implementation is similar.
Dirac works better the worse your system is. I used it to DIY build a system because doing a passive cross over is beyond me. So i just used a hypex plate amp with 3 channels and hooked up each driver to each channel and just did a basic level adjustment and basic 4th order cross over on that. That sounded like total crap of course, but just run dirac and now i have something world class, that sounds much better than the speaker as it was with the cross over it came with.
Thanks for this excellent video! I installed the test version of Dirac and noticed a considerable improvement in sound quality in my room. My trial ended today and I just ordered a minidsp SHD. I can’t go back now. The clarity and sound stage is more accurately defined than I could ever get with minidsp 2x4/REW/manual eq.
That was a long but in depth explanation of Dirac Live. I have tried to ask others of the benefit of Dirac Live and it just left me in the dark. Now it time to think seriously about installing on my Arcam receiver.
The difficulty I’m having is that I need 6 channel correction from my Schiit Syn preamp. I need something that will take 6 rca inputs, do the room correction for each channel, and output 6 or more rca outputs for my amps and subwoofer. I guess I could buy three of the 2x4 HD or Dirac versions but is there a better way that you know of?
Downloaded and tested after long period of time again! I still love it. Improvement in tonality you hardly get with any component even listening in near field setup. Ron, how does it work with the open baffle speakers? Is the improvement mainly in the bass and lower mid for you?
It's very simple, you got a sound... let's say à digital one, you can then draw a curve that represent it, now you play it through your system (pré Amp, Amp, cables, speakers, room... hears. You put a microphone where your ears are supposed to be for listening... You now play each frequencies and see how they "arrive" at this calibrated microphone. Then you correct the input signal for it to be the initial curve... It's so simple and easy. I can see some people making it a complex process, it's not... We can even imagine having a microphone on ourselves, moving across a room and having a dsp correct it live.
Hi-End 2 channel Audio products do not Use audio processors. Most DSP’s are only used in MidFi/LowFi AVR’s AKA home theater applications and a few Loudspeaker manufactures DSP loudspeakers, like Elac, KEF, and a few others.
Please, just listen once to it prior commenting... Dirac and also Room Perfect from Lyngdorf do make small but noticeable and interesting improvements ... use your ears and then we will talk... my sound engineer recognized it was really a positive addition.
DSPs are used in most if not all powered studio monitor speakers that are at the summit of sound reproduction. They cost the earth if you buy them for your home. Equating dsp with "cheap" is a terrible misconception. Look up Genelec, Dutch&Dutch, etc. It's "the next leap forward".
So much nonsense in one comment.... Ever listen to an well setup Active & DSP based System (Genelec, Bohne Audio, Neumann or miniDSP based solutions) - When you set them up correctly and implement Subs with some well build 2 or 3 Way Compact Active speakers, good room acoustic, they will kick nearly everthing from the ,, High End, in the a** in terms of Details, Imaging, Bass Quality and Resolution... Trinnov, Genelec, miniDSP, Neumann MA1, Sonarworks, AcourateCV... there are so much High End / well developed Products & Softwares out there. But people dont know what Active + DSP is capable of because most of them never heard an Active Monitor incl Subs for example. High End dont use DSPs because they want your money to spend on big monoblocks and their high gloss finish like in the 90's.
Randy - the DDRC-24 only has analog outputs, so you can't use your DAC of choice. The DDRC-22D at $800 seems to be the least expensive that has a digital (coax) output.
Great video guys. I'm in the process of updating my Yamaha RX-v479 receiver to one newer with Dolby Atmos. I see a new Denon X3800 H that includes Dirac. Plus it has 4 independent sub outputs. This video sold me on Dirac....
x3800h includes the option to upgrade to Dirac via firmware update for a fee just so you know, it's at least $250 just to start with full range/base that can take you to $600.
Hi I describe Dirac as it slows everything down ,and really captures all that’s in the song , obviously it’s not slowing it down, personally I prefer two channel music without Dirac ,and only use it for my home cinema, shame one of the questions was why doesn’t Dirac get the levels to the speakers correctly, as spl levels need to be corrected usually afterwards, Dirac live is a favourite for most , its very straight forward to calibrate, but ,can be some what of a-challenge with target curves ,etc , the great thing is you can keep changing the curve till you heart is content or simply use a dedicated target curve , say a harman kardon, or nad , or Diracs own , they are all great starting points ,personally I believe that some people who use Dirac live ,feel daunted with what they see , just take your time , plus their is lost of video content with this subject, failing that , you can always get a professional in .
Have a look at ROOM PERFECT from LYNGDORF. Very similar and easier to set up through their electronics (less than 10 minutes). Mac Intosh has implemented it also in one of their electronics. Works flawlessly without any bug since may 2020. Peter Lyngdorf, the founder from Denmark, is the brain who was piloting NAD from the beginning in the 70's, a man ahead of its time. Would be interesting Ron if you give the Lyngdorf all-in one TDAI 3400 a try, i think you would really raise your eyebrows...
Id like to try DIRAC..but i have a Luxman integrated and i dont want to add a pre-amp just to have dirac. Is there a way to get it without more equipment?
Very much enjoyed this episode. I had a related question. Mathias mentioned enjoying listening to the sound system in his new Volvo. I also have a new Volvo with the Bowers+Wilkins sound system and enjoy it very much. My question is whether the Volvo system Mathias was referring to has been created with Dirac? I wasn't clear from his comments if Dirac was used in the Volvos or not. Please let me know if you are aware if Dirac is part of that system. Thanks!
Ron, tell Danny to get to work on some speaker grills like the Sonus Faber string type grills but made from barbed wire. That would be cool and functional.😅
Ok so this is an old vid now and Dirac have improved the Dirac Live software some which was upsetting some people when this vid was released. The first thing we can agree is the room is likely the most important element of the listening experience. A million dollars of gear in a terrible room will in all likelihood sound terrible. DSP of all sorts sets out to help deal with problems. Not fix, but help - so not a silver bullet. Dirac has its own methods and techniques same as any DSP. Trick is to understand what it does and does not do and then how to achieve what you want from it because at the end of the day you have to be happy with what you hear. Maybe Dirac is not the answer for your situation, maybe physical room treatments is a better solution for some situations. Maybe you can tweak the curve to achieve the sort of sound you want and maybe you can't. Does not mean this DSP tool is not capable of doing it. In my case I got a good result in a weirdly shaped room with small speakers using DIRAC. It took me a while to properly record the tones and then understand the tuning to create the filters. The system now sounds way bigger than its physical size suggests and it sounds just how I like it which is like I have a big pair of vintage JBL speakers attached. Its a neat trick but still does not mean its the right solution for everyone and all situations.
Hey guys! This is a bit of a long shot but i gotta try something. Have you ever came across Dirac Live not integrating a sub at all? I have a situation where i got volume matching and measurements nicely done on my 2.1 system, heard the test tones from all 3 components and then proceeded to adjusting the filter graphs. After i export the filter and turn it on in BluOS (i have a NAD C 3050 LE), the sub is not in the mix. I double checked this by trying to increase lvl from the sub itself - nothing. When i turn Dirac off, the sub returns back into the mix normally. Any idea if i'm missing something or what could be the issue here? Thanks for all the good content and sorry for the long winded question! PS, i tried grouping all as 1 group and speakers + sub as separate groups - no dice, still the same result..
I have Dirac built in on my NAD T778 Av receiver and it works great. For 2 channel listening it can knock your speaker dead flat in terms of a measured response and help eliminate room modes. The only downside to it is it seems to suck a bit of the life out of the speaker for 2 channel listening. For Dolby Atmos surround for movies it doesn’t matter and works amazingly well.
I'm a great Dirac fan, had it for a couple of years with the NAD C658 pre-amp. I think your observation of "taking the life" out of the speaker is a result of the overall volume being lowered when engaging Dirac, as it needs headroom in the digital domain. If you compensate by turning the volume up as you switch Dirac on, I noticed it just sounds so much better: more direct, cleaner, and more dynamic, overall a huge improvement (in my room with tile floor, lots of glass). The worse the room, the better the improvement!
i tried dirac when i got my minidsp shd studio, did not work well, but i give it a another go soon, now i have a mic stand and i am trying to learn how to do proper microphone placement so the result will be better. i wonder how much dirac can be better if it had control over my system, right now dirac just is the final dsp layer in stereo channels, how about if dirac could have utilized my minidsp shd studio 4 channels full suite of tools, and also my hypex fusionamp 123 active speakers.
@@DesignVisStudios i forgot to mention that i also have stereo subwoofer setup, crossover done by the shd studio, and like you basic crossover by hypex plate amp.
I have been playing with the SHD for a few months. I now have a better handle on how it works, and how to measure. My system has achieved levels I could not achieve before. MiniDSP SHD Sanders sound 10c Merrill Audio Thor amps for woofers Aragon Palladium 1k for panels Brinkman Bardo Kuzma 4Point9 Soundsmith Zephyr MIMC☆ PS Audio Stellar phono. Glorious sound. Glorious!
Even the best studio monitors can't overcome a room that is acoustically untreated. It's 50% quality equipment, 40% acoustic treatment, 10% room correction software. I have Sonarworks SoundID Reference, but I hate the 37-point measurements. It takes FOREVER to make changes and do the testing. I'm interested in trying the Dirac Live Room Correction Suite.
My trial literally expired today. Have been testing Dirac Live Standalone on my Windows PCs and rigs. Bugs aside (hopefully they get fixed as they're pretty show-stopping), it does give me better results than REW+Equalizer APO. Perfect for my stereo home theater setup with SB Acoustics RInjanis, which are incredibly bassy, in addition to majorly interacting with room modes. In my main rig though...well, my Harbeth SHL5+ no longer sound like Harbeth and the midrange warmth has disappeared, but I'm torn because there is a suck out in that room in the mid-bass region which the Dirac filter takes care of. But it's pretty easy to turn it on or off as needed.
I seriously doubt that SB Acoustics Rinjani are "bassy" as you describe - ( they don't measure bassy ) - it's more likely that your speaker positioning is suboptimal & that your room resonant modes are being excited - DSP is great as a last resort option, but it's never a superior cure for bad acoustics. You can "improve" a certain limited listening zone @ the expense of a "worsened" response in other parts of the room. It's best to limit the BW of the correction to below 200Hz in my opinion ( the majority of room modes... ) Too many people & too many DSP correction companys make outrageous claims that a crappy speaker & hardware can be digitally corrected to sound great - that's just pure nonsense, but so many "people" today will argue that there is no difference between a penis & a vagina... go figure :-)
@@BogdanWeiss They definitely do more to excite the room modes in their spots than the other speakers in my collection. I'd say that it's thanks to their rear firing bass ports. The room that they're in is very problematic, to the point where there are significant dips in the measured FR up to 2khz. It's also a location where room treatment is banned, unlike my actual listening room. But all that is moot as they have been replaced and I've just given up on the spaghetti code that is Dirac standalone for Windows. Plus, they've always sounded a bit less transparent than without. I may just be in the same choir you're in.
@@infn By no means am I against DSP room correction, but very few people seem to truly understand what is going on ( I'm talking manufacturers & dealers & generally people who should be in the know - did I leave out reviewers ? hah :-) ) When you have a bad sounding room ( almost all of them are unless they're properly treated & that's another can of worms... ) apply DSP below 200Hz to correct room resonance modes - But DSP correction manufacturers emphasize the nice & pretty looking graphs applied across the whole BW, because it looks amazing on paper, but not so to the trained critical ear..... I recently attended a newly built studio for an Atmos demonstration ( this was one of not many studios where room modes were specifically & separately addressed measured, mapped out & correctly addressed with selective absorbers in the correct locations ) All I can say about Atmos for music is "gimmick" - for a movie soundtrack that was specifically Atmos mixed, it was interesting... A demo of an existing music album allegedly properly "remixed" for Atmos, also sounded gimmicky to me - yes more "spacious" but in an unnatural manner - a bit like overcooked reverb or the current generation of "singers" who can only "sing" through autotune, but 99.9% of the population doesn't seem to know the difference. I'm not saying that DIRAC is not doing as good a job as anyone else, it's just that DSP loudspeaker & room correction has inherent limitations & by no means can DSP room correction beat proper acoustical treatment & a lot of people & press seem to allude to that. The fact that you can evaluate it running off a regular PC, without forking out big $$ on dedicated hardware is a big + Maybe dipole bass is a way to improve your problematic room ? have you tried stuffing the ports on your Rinjani's ? Also I looked at the Sb Acoustics Rinjani user manual & I don't think they come with enough acoustical absorption for the inside of the enclosure & that supplied dacron is of limited use when addressing internal standing waves ( even doubled-up it's not very effective ) You don't want to overstuff it & I can't make out the internal bracing - this takes experimentation & many "well reviewed & seeming well engineered speakers are lacking in this area ) I would also add a flared flange on the inside of the vent ( but this will shift the tuning frequency lower ) All in all the Rinjani represents excellent value & bang/$ & as good parts quality as you often don't get for $20-30K .... We can only wish & dream that one day architects will be taught some acoustics, other then elementary noise control :-) I feel your pain :-) - found a review - there's an LR2 @3kHz - which is a bit problematic ( again a very well engineered speaker, by far much better than other manufacturers kits - but it could do with more refinement - but then again you don't want the driver manufacturer's kit to out-do loudspeaker manufacturers who source drivers from them :-) ) audioxpress.com/files/attachment/2645
everything falls into place is the right expression ... or when you turn it off you have the feeling that the music is fallen apart and focus gets away. Cant imagine to buy anymore a streamer without dirac.
Wait.. They make this as a complex thing. Dsp is something that exist in computers for a long time, we use it for decades to correct signal. It's cheap and very effective. No need to masturbate on what it is.
I have been trying to use REW to help tune my 5.1.2 system and it may take a 10 week course to learn how to use it properly. Even after learning it, I am not sure that it will really help because the only thing that can be done with REW or DIRAC is setting the distance and crossover for each speaker not anything with an EQ on each speaker within the AVR. At least not with a common affordable AVR. I've seen where some guys have used a MiniDSP product and REW to tune each channel, but that still did not adjust an EQ setting. Does a system owner have to get a second job to afford to buy an active multi channel DSP with EQ on each channel if there is such a unit? I also wonder if Audyssey or other room correction firmwre adjusts each channel EQ within the AVR it is installed in?
Will be implementing this with a 3 way active speaker system. Hypex based and they play down to 23htz so i believe this will comer in handy. Will be awaiting a minidsp shd studio. Getting psyched for some true hd music.
Or instead buy Neumann KH310 + KH750 and youve also a correction software or Genelecs GLM... there are a few options out there with DSP / Correction build in
This is so cool, and now I have a better understanding of how DIRAC can be implemented. Wondering/would be nice if it could be integrated as a plugin (albeit simpler) though Volumio at least have the option of bringing it in with different transports that support it. Also to get away from the usb only application outside of purchasing an amp that already has it.
I tried the code Rum & Brandy, but it didn’t work 🙀☠️⁉️!!! On a more serious note, I really wished you would have challenged him on what might might make someone not like using it above 250hz and all the 2 channel people who give it a good try and fail to get an improvement.. and if there is anything they can do if they don’t. It’s really marketed as this one shot solution and there is very little information on optimizing the process, do and donuts etc… I do love the premise of Dirac, but after spending money on a calibrated measurement mic and spending 3 full nights measuring and curving with two trials, the best I can say it I liked it with all options off and a curtain below 250. Anything else and it made the sound stage small and bound to the plane of the speakers and took away all the dimentionality and space between instruments afforded by my tube pre. Really, it made everything sound a little like entry level pro audio home gear from yesteryear.
For Cheap Audio: DDRC24 + a Behringer A800 amplifier + QAcoustics 3030i + a couple of subs. Whole system well under 2k - closer to 1.5k. You will be amazed. Stream from PC or CD or Phono or Phone/Tablet, whatever your taste.
Big mistake, tbh. People don't realize they have embedded digital circuits everywhere. Good technology will not pollute your clean analog sound. The problem is not in the digital, but in the proper implementation. Properly done it solves lots of problems. The problem is "noise", not "digital".
Most audio folks are clueless and still think all digital is bad and only analog is the truth... , Most People, isnt always a reason for ,, the best or correct way,,
Please consider having Apple TV support I have my new Apple TV to my Hypex nCore amp and 3 way diy speakers I love the simplicity of Airplay cause I play everything from Apple Music. I don’t wish to use a mac as a Cpu to run Dirac
Please talk to Pionner people and get them to integrate Dirac in their decks I have a 80PRS superb audiophile deck and don’t wish to add Anither hardware in car line miniDSP to run Dirac
I hope Apple buys Dirac and incorporates in the MacOS iOS and Apple TVos and carOS Dirac should lower prices so more users can adopt I have 3 rooms current pricing I cannot afford
If it worked it might be needed but I personally haven’t gotten it to work on my NAD T778 for about 3 months! I just use a SPL meter at 75db and my perimetric EQ’s included in my duel SVS setup, It takes a bit longer but the results I think are equal to or better than Dirac. P.S. I upgraded from Anthem but their ARC room correction has always worked flawlessly NOT DIRAC! Don’t believe the hype..
An interesting conversation about a tech that I would really love to add into my setup. It would be so good if the people at Dirac could work with the people at Roon to integrate into the Roon server... Then the processing could take place before the network bridge hands it off to the Mscaler and Dac. Just an idea. I am sure that someone will correct me if this is a poor idea. Greetings to one and All Mac Mini Roon server - Auralic Aries G2.1 - Chord Mscaler/Hugo TT2 - Leema Hydra II - Spatial M3 Sapphires.
I'm a 2 channel "audiophile" and I can say that Dirac is a must have. Even if you have a dedicated room (as I do) getting the bass and integrating subs becomes very challenging and even after you get them "perfect" you will have imbalances. Dirac fixes a lot of it and takes it 3 levels up. Getting Dirac is much better than spending money on cables or other expensive "tweaks" that don't do anywhere as much of an improvement as Dirac does. It's a must have.
Can you get Dirac software only or do you need a piece of equipment for dirac?
@baronofgreymatter14 there is a new stand alone version. Not sure how that works, but as far as I know you need a Dirac compatible device.
What device do you use for Dirac? Minidsp is a bit tedious, but AVR is overkill for music only. Thank you for your thoughts.
@@simpsonbergman2185 NAD C658.
The new miniDSP Flex digital version (for room correction purposes) will allow you to run Dirac in the digital domain and output that digitally to your favorite DAC. This way, the sonic characteristics of your DAC are preserved. If your source is digital (CD, streamers), there is no ADC at all.
That will cover most music and DACs but I believe it will downsample to 24/196 for anything over that.
A big thank you to Ron and Randy for bringing this product to the fellow audiophiles.
Dirac Live can not fix incorrect speaker and listening positioning.
Tested it and proved it .
Yes you will hear a difference, but if you get your positioning placement alignment correctly done first, then it is even more magical.
You need to get your speaker and listening positioning placement 100% first.
That's the key, for Dirac Live to work at its best.
People are looking for a magic pill without understanding the complexities involved - thanks for being a voice of reason - with mad people in charge of governments & medicine - voice of reason can sound like a strange thing ;-)
Whoever buy DSPs to think they can do wonder with inaccurate placed Setups or Echoey rooms dont understand the sense behind them.
Speaker Placement > Room Treatment > DSP / EQ / Correction... But of course you can Measure when your room isnt treated fully to experiment with the EQ. Thats also helps a lot to fix a little bit the peaks and come closer to an balanced music playback even without an acoustic concept. But most ,Audiophiles, are miles away to accept this technology. DSPs & Digital Correction are still for a lot of people a ,devils tool, and unacceptable... for whatever reason
Thank you for the video! In the past I've used, Sonarworks, IK ARC (1&2) and hand made corrections with REW and miniDSP (non Dirac). Have been happy with results, so didn't need to test Dirac. Turns out I should have tried Dirac much sooner. They were not fooling with the impulse response correction. Without the correction, the music was "stuck" to my speakers. After the correction I managed to get a really strong center image and much improved sound stage. Disclaimer: my studio is acoustically treated so that might help Dirac to achieve such great results. Wasn't planning on getting yet another correction tool, but this was an instant buy after testing.
I think it depends on the situation what you have.
I´m using Dirac Live in a living room without any room treatment, but that will happen in the future, but I´m mostly using it for watching movies.
I also use a miniDSP 2x4HD for LFE-Channel. With treatment and REW, you can almost reach the same I think if you know, what you´re doing.
DL has an algorythm. You can also use FIR and IIR - Filters but this goes beyond my REW-skills, if you don´t know already, there are a lot of beta versions available at audio nirvana, they improve it all the time, so REW is a very good free program. DL is very expensive in comparison, you can buy better gear in terms of what you save from not buying it ;)
Just my few cents =)
@@tommyshoe-star1426 I have ended up using a hybrid setup. miniDSP for the sub/mains crossover and then Dirac Live for the frequency and phase correction (to a hand made House Curve). For me, the Dirac produces better (frequency & phase) correction than I can do with REW + rePhase + miniDSP combo.
Just like you said, it depends on the situation what works and doesn't work.
@@tommyshoe-star1426
@@tommyshoe-star1426
Thanks for you guys input. That really is this question is whether or not it is better than the less expensive options. It’s not whether it is better than nothing. I hear those comparisons all the time with speaker cable where they will say x or y brand speaker cable sounded so much better than basic lamp wire. The question should be does it sound better than something of the same gauge that cost half the price. It sounds like in this case it might be worth the extra money but I’m struggling to figure out how to get it in my 5.1 system. I thought at one point miniDSP made units like the 2x4 HD that had a lot more inputs and outputs but I don’t see them now. I need at least 6 inputs and 6 outputs for the 6 outputs from my preamp. I guess I could buy three 2x4s for $675 and use REW or $1500 for the Dirac Live versions.
This sounds like great product for correcting your room harmonics while saving money and arguments with family members. Thanks for bringing us this information.
Thanks!
Yes, it is required. I just purchased the DDRC-24. After many hours of listening to DIRAC live, it improves my listening experience on everything except for content that is more vocally biased. Dirac Live takes what is perceived as musicality out of the voices, at least in the environments I have tried the unit. In this case, the color that the room introduces does benefit. Maybe I am just highly accustomed to the haze that adds more character to the voices.
Imo, Dirac is incredible, but it is best when you only adjust for lower frequencies. I bring the adjustment curtain up for 200hz and then let the rest go naturally. For my situation this worked out really well. I'm using the miniDSP SHD so I'm sure the implementation is similar.
@@JC-lk3oy Thanks for the recommendation JC!!!
Dirac works better the worse your system is. I used it to DIY build a system because doing a passive cross over is beyond me. So i just used a hypex plate amp with 3 channels and hooked up each driver to each channel and just did a basic level adjustment and basic 4th order cross over on that. That sounded like total crap of course, but just run dirac and now i have something world class, that sounds much better than the speaker as it was with the cross over it came with.
Thanks for this excellent video! I installed the test version of Dirac and noticed a considerable improvement in sound quality in my room. My trial ended today and I just ordered a minidsp SHD. I can’t go back now. The clarity and sound stage is more accurately defined than I could ever get with minidsp 2x4/REW/manual eq.
That was a long but in depth explanation of Dirac Live. I have tried to ask others of the benefit of Dirac Live and it just left me in the dark. Now it time to think seriously about installing on my Arcam receiver.
Wish there were more preamps or DACs with Dirac!
the mini dsp one is pretty good
I have the miniDSP SHD. Fantastic preamp/streamer/dac. When you consider it costs about $1200 with Dirac3??? Mind-blowing!
Love my mini dsp studio
The difficulty I’m having is that I need 6 channel correction from my Schiit Syn preamp. I need something that will take 6 rca inputs, do the room correction for each channel, and output 6 or more rca outputs for my amps and subwoofer. I guess I could buy three of the 2x4 HD or Dirac versions but is there a better way that you know of?
@@williamhicks2763ddrc88
Downloaded and tested after long period of time again! I still love it. Improvement in tonality you hardly get with any component even listening in near field setup. Ron, how does it work with the open baffle speakers? Is the improvement mainly in the bass and lower mid for you?
my heart goes out to Mathias... I hope he gets a private listening room one day soon...
Dood!’ I’m so glad and happy for CAM! He’s been grinding and growing. Nice to see him getting this type of exposure.
Ron, great to see a new video, it's been a while!
Is it me, or does Mathias look like Liam Neeson's brother?
Can I use Dirac Live on a receiver that doesn't support it? Is there some HDMI Dirac Live processor I can put in place of an existing receiver?
It's very simple, you got a sound... let's say à digital one, you can then draw a curve that represent it, now you play it through your system (pré Amp, Amp, cables, speakers, room... hears. You put a microphone where your ears are supposed to be for listening... You now play each frequencies and see how they "arrive" at this calibrated microphone. Then you correct the input signal for it to be the initial curve... It's so simple and easy. I can see some people making it a complex process, it's not...
We can even imagine having a microphone on ourselves, moving across a room and having a dsp correct it live.
Hi-End 2 channel Audio products do not Use audio processors. Most DSP’s are only used in MidFi/LowFi AVR’s AKA home theater applications and a few Loudspeaker manufactures DSP loudspeakers, like Elac, KEF, and a few others.
Please, just listen once to it prior commenting... Dirac and also Room Perfect from Lyngdorf do make small but noticeable and interesting improvements ... use your ears and then we will talk... my sound engineer recognized it was really a positive addition.
DSPs are used in most if not all powered studio monitor speakers that are at the summit of sound reproduction. They cost the earth if you buy them for your home. Equating dsp with "cheap" is a terrible misconception. Look up Genelec, Dutch&Dutch, etc. It's "the next leap forward".
So much nonsense in one comment.... Ever listen to an well setup Active & DSP based System (Genelec, Bohne Audio, Neumann or miniDSP based solutions) - When you set them up correctly and implement Subs with some well build 2 or 3 Way Compact Active speakers, good room acoustic, they will kick nearly everthing from the ,, High End, in the a** in terms of Details, Imaging, Bass Quality and Resolution...
Trinnov, Genelec, miniDSP, Neumann MA1, Sonarworks, AcourateCV... there are so much High End / well developed Products & Softwares out there. But people dont know what Active + DSP is capable of because most of them never heard an Active Monitor incl Subs for example. High End dont use DSPs because they want your money to spend on big monoblocks and their high gloss finish like in the 90's.
I like the laptop solution over trying to shoehorn yet another chunk of hardware into the situation
That's what i do. Right from the laptop digital signal so the way to the active speakers. Absolutely wonderful.
Randy - the DDRC-24 only has analog outputs, so you can't use your DAC of choice.
The DDRC-22D at $800 seems to be the least expensive that has a digital (coax) output.
Could do with the MiniDSP offerings as well.
@@asplmn Right - these are the miniDSP models with DIRAC Live.
Great session! Any chance of an updated discount code?
Yes please 🙏
Great video guys. I'm in the process of updating my Yamaha RX-v479 receiver to one newer with Dolby Atmos. I see a new Denon X3800 H that includes Dirac. Plus it has 4 independent sub outputs. This video sold me on Dirac....
x3800h includes the option to upgrade to Dirac via firmware update for a fee just so you know, it's at least $250 just to start with full range/base that can take you to $600.
Thanks, I've gone with the Onkyo Z-50 with Dirac. I don't need the 4 separate sub outputs.
Hi I describe Dirac as it slows everything down ,and really captures all that’s in the song , obviously it’s not slowing it down, personally I prefer two channel music without Dirac ,and only use it for my home cinema, shame one of the questions was why doesn’t Dirac get the levels to the speakers correctly, as spl levels need to be corrected usually afterwards, Dirac live is a favourite for most , its very straight forward to calibrate, but ,can be some what of a-challenge with target curves ,etc , the great thing is you can keep changing the curve till you heart is content or simply use a dedicated target curve , say a harman kardon, or nad , or Diracs own , they are all great starting points ,personally I believe that some people who use Dirac live ,feel daunted with what they see , just take your time , plus their is lost of video content with this subject, failing that , you can always get a professional in .
Have a look at ROOM PERFECT from LYNGDORF. Very similar and easier to set up through their electronics (less than 10 minutes). Mac Intosh has implemented it also in one of their electronics. Works flawlessly without any bug since may 2020. Peter Lyngdorf, the founder from Denmark, is the brain who was piloting NAD from the beginning in the 70's, a man ahead of its time. Would be interesting Ron if you give the Lyngdorf all-in one TDAI 3400 a try, i think you would really raise your eyebrows...
Can we still get the discount on Dirac?
Mathias is a great guy. Cannot believe he let you cal him mat- hi-as rather then correct you that it is Ma-thi-as
Actually, in Swedish it is more like Mah-tee-ah-s.
@@rewind9536 Nobody cares!
@@qddk9545 And have a lovely Tuesday evening!
Id like to try DIRAC..but i have a Luxman integrated and i dont want to add a pre-amp just to have dirac. Is there a way to get it without more equipment?
Very much enjoyed this episode. I had a related question. Mathias mentioned enjoying listening to the sound system in his new Volvo. I also have a new Volvo with the Bowers+Wilkins sound system and enjoy it very much. My question is whether the Volvo system Mathias was referring to has been created with Dirac? I wasn't clear from his comments if Dirac was used in the Volvos or not. Please let me know if you are aware if Dirac is part of that system. Thanks!
Ron, tell Danny to get to work on some speaker grills like the Sonus Faber string type grills but made from barbed wire. That would be cool and functional.😅
Ok so this is an old vid now and Dirac have improved the Dirac Live software some which was upsetting some people when this vid was released. The first thing we can agree is the room is likely the most important element of the listening experience. A million dollars of gear in a terrible room will in all likelihood sound terrible. DSP of all sorts sets out to help deal with problems. Not fix, but help - so not a silver bullet. Dirac has its own methods and techniques same as any DSP. Trick is to understand what it does and does not do and then how to achieve what you want from it because at the end of the day you have to be happy with what you hear. Maybe Dirac is not the answer for your situation, maybe physical room treatments is a better solution for some situations. Maybe you can tweak the curve to achieve the sort of sound you want and maybe you can't. Does not mean this DSP tool is not capable of doing it.
In my case I got a good result in a weirdly shaped room with small speakers using DIRAC. It took me a while to properly record the tones and then understand the tuning to create the filters. The system now sounds way bigger than its physical size suggests and it sounds just how I like it which is like I have a big pair of vintage JBL speakers attached. Its a neat trick but still does not mean its the right solution for everyone and all situations.
When Mathias says the anticipated dB level is set at 100 dB, is this measured at the listening position or 1m from the speaker?
Any plans to review the new smaller spatial audio speakers? I'd be curious to see how they compare to their larger counterparts.
Hey guys! This is a bit of a long shot but i gotta try something. Have you ever came across Dirac Live not integrating a sub at all? I have a situation where i got volume matching and measurements nicely done on my 2.1 system, heard the test tones from all 3 components and then proceeded to adjusting the filter graphs. After i export the filter and turn it on in BluOS (i have a NAD C 3050 LE), the sub is not in the mix. I double checked this by trying to increase lvl from the sub itself - nothing. When i turn Dirac off, the sub returns back into the mix normally. Any idea if i'm missing something or what could be the issue here? Thanks for all the good content and sorry for the long winded question! PS, i tried grouping all as 1 group and speakers + sub as separate groups - no dice, still the same result..
Hi Ron. Very interesting theme.
Besides the NAD m33 and M10
Have you tried the Arcam SA30. It also has Dirac, but the FULL version.
Once Dirac you never go back 👍👍
I have Dirac built in on my NAD T778 Av receiver and it works great. For 2 channel listening it can knock your speaker dead flat in terms of a measured response and help eliminate room modes. The only downside to it is it seems to suck a bit of the life out of the speaker for 2 channel listening. For Dolby Atmos surround for movies it doesn’t matter and works amazingly well.
I agree. It sucks some of the life out of vocals in particular. Everything else sounds extraordinary!
@@bjhemingway5496 Try limiting the effective range of the Dirac calibration to
I'm a great Dirac fan, had it for a couple of years with the NAD C658 pre-amp. I think your observation of "taking the life" out of the speaker is a result of the overall volume being lowered when engaging Dirac, as it needs headroom in the digital domain. If you compensate by turning the volume up as you switch Dirac on, I noticed it just sounds so much better: more direct, cleaner, and more dynamic, overall a huge improvement (in my room with tile floor, lots of glass). The worse the room, the better the improvement!
Hi ron great video
If I have a 4 way diy speaker and 2 nos 2x4hd will one lic work on both dsp or will I need to buy 2 lic
RR are back!!!, thanks guys.
I thought my system sounded better with it off. What’s wrong with me?
NEED right up till you factor in the total cost for DiRAC... damn near a mid range receiver at $1.1K for DIRAC full range/base/DART.
Ron, why haven't you posted the Spatial X5 review?
Still in the works
Thanks! very interesting!
I wonder what system Mathias finally got, I’m thinking Dynaudio Focus. Technically good and will accommodate the ‘wife factor’ 😅
i tried dirac when i got my minidsp shd studio, did not work well, but i give it a another go soon, now i have a mic stand and i am trying to learn how to do proper microphone placement so the result will be better.
i wonder how much dirac can be better if it had control over my system, right now dirac just is the final dsp layer in stereo channels, how about if dirac could have utilized my minidsp shd studio 4 channels full suite of tools, and also my hypex fusionamp 123 active speakers.
I'm running the same setup with hypex and getting great results. only using the hypex to do a basic cross over and the rest automagically with dirac
@@DesignVisStudios i forgot to mention that i also have stereo subwoofer setup, crossover done by the shd studio, and like you basic crossover by hypex plate amp.
I have been playing with the SHD for a few months. I now have a better handle on how it works, and how to measure. My system has achieved levels I could not achieve before.
MiniDSP SHD
Sanders sound 10c
Merrill Audio Thor amps for woofers
Aragon Palladium 1k for panels
Brinkman Bardo
Kuzma 4Point9
Soundsmith Zephyr MIMC☆
PS Audio Stellar phono.
Glorious sound. Glorious!
Even the best studio monitors can't overcome a room that is acoustically untreated. It's 50% quality equipment, 40% acoustic treatment, 10% room correction software. I have Sonarworks SoundID Reference, but I hate the 37-point measurements. It takes FOREVER to make changes and do the testing. I'm interested in trying the Dirac Live Room Correction Suite.
My trial literally expired today. Have been testing Dirac Live Standalone on my Windows PCs and rigs. Bugs aside (hopefully they get fixed as they're pretty show-stopping), it does give me better results than REW+Equalizer APO. Perfect for my stereo home theater setup with SB Acoustics RInjanis, which are incredibly bassy, in addition to majorly interacting with room modes.
In my main rig though...well, my Harbeth SHL5+ no longer sound like Harbeth and the midrange warmth has disappeared, but I'm torn because there is a suck out in that room in the mid-bass region which the Dirac filter takes care of. But it's pretty easy to turn it on or off as needed.
You can limit the frequency that Dirac is applied to, say, 500 hz and continue to enjoy the linear distortion of your speakers.
I seriously doubt that SB Acoustics Rinjani are "bassy" as you describe - ( they don't measure bassy ) - it's more likely that your speaker positioning is suboptimal & that your room resonant modes are being excited - DSP is great as a last resort option, but it's never a superior cure for bad acoustics. You can "improve" a certain limited listening zone @ the expense of a "worsened" response in other parts of the room. It's best to limit the BW of the correction to below 200Hz in my opinion ( the majority of room modes... ) Too many people & too many DSP correction companys make outrageous claims that a crappy speaker & hardware can be digitally corrected to sound great - that's just pure nonsense, but so many "people" today will argue that there is no difference between a penis & a vagina... go figure :-)
@@BogdanWeiss They definitely do more to excite the room modes in their spots than the other speakers in my collection. I'd say that it's thanks to their rear firing bass ports. The room that they're in is very problematic, to the point where there are significant dips in the measured FR up to 2khz. It's also a location where room treatment is banned, unlike my actual listening room.
But all that is moot as they have been replaced and I've just given up on the spaghetti code that is Dirac standalone for Windows. Plus, they've always sounded a bit less transparent than without. I may just be in the same choir you're in.
@@infn By no means am I against DSP room correction, but very few people seem to truly understand what is going on ( I'm talking manufacturers & dealers & generally people who should be in the know - did I leave out reviewers ? hah :-) ) When you have a bad sounding room ( almost all of them are unless they're properly treated & that's another can of worms... ) apply DSP below 200Hz to correct room resonance modes - But DSP correction manufacturers emphasize the nice & pretty looking graphs applied across the whole BW, because it looks amazing on paper, but not so to the trained critical ear..... I recently attended a newly built studio for an Atmos demonstration ( this was one of not many studios where room modes were specifically & separately addressed measured, mapped out & correctly addressed with selective absorbers in the correct locations ) All I can say about Atmos for music is "gimmick" - for a movie soundtrack that was specifically Atmos mixed, it was interesting... A demo of an existing music album allegedly properly "remixed" for Atmos, also sounded gimmicky to me - yes more "spacious" but in an unnatural manner - a bit like overcooked reverb or the current generation of "singers" who can only "sing" through autotune, but 99.9% of the population doesn't seem to know the difference. I'm not saying that DIRAC is not doing as good a job as anyone else, it's just that DSP loudspeaker & room correction has inherent limitations & by no means can DSP room correction beat proper acoustical treatment & a lot of people & press seem to allude to that. The fact that you can evaluate it running off a regular PC, without forking out big $$ on dedicated hardware is a big + Maybe dipole bass is a way to improve your problematic room ? have you tried stuffing the ports on your Rinjani's ? Also I looked at the Sb Acoustics Rinjani user manual & I don't think they come with enough acoustical absorption for the inside of the enclosure & that supplied dacron is of limited use when addressing internal standing waves ( even doubled-up it's not very effective ) You don't want to overstuff it & I can't make out the internal bracing - this takes experimentation & many "well reviewed & seeming well engineered speakers are lacking in this area ) I would also add a flared flange on the inside of the vent ( but this will shift the tuning frequency lower ) All in all the Rinjani represents excellent value & bang/$ & as good parts quality as you often don't get for $20-30K .... We can only wish & dream that one day architects will be taught some acoustics, other then elementary noise control :-) I feel your pain :-) - found a review - there's an LR2 @3kHz - which is a bit problematic ( again a very well engineered speaker, by far much better than other manufacturers kits - but it could do with more refinement - but then again you don't want the driver manufacturer's kit to out-do loudspeaker manufacturers who source drivers from them :-) ) audioxpress.com/files/attachment/2645
Hey, what happened to the X5 review?
Up and coming
@@Newrecordday2013 Yaaaay! :D
everything falls into place is the right expression ... or when you turn it off you have the feeling that the music is fallen apart and focus gets away.
Cant imagine to buy anymore a streamer without dirac.
try audiolense with roon or hqplayer
Wait.. They make this as a complex thing. Dsp is something that exist in computers for a long time, we use it for decades to correct signal. It's cheap and very effective. No need to masturbate on what it is.
I had no idea Mel Gibson was even into hi-fi ;^)
I have been trying to use REW to help tune my 5.1.2 system and it may take a 10 week course to learn how to use it properly. Even after learning it, I am not sure that it will really help because the only thing that can be done with REW or DIRAC is setting the distance and crossover for each speaker not anything with an EQ on each speaker within the AVR. At least not with a common affordable AVR. I've seen where some guys have used a MiniDSP product and REW to tune each channel, but that still did not adjust an EQ setting. Does a system owner have to get a second job to afford to buy an active multi channel DSP with EQ on each channel if there is such a unit? I also wonder if Audyssey or other room correction firmwre adjusts each channel EQ within the AVR it is installed in?
Will be implementing this with a 3 way active speaker system. Hypex based and they play down to 23htz so i believe this will comer in handy. Will be awaiting a minidsp shd studio. Getting psyched for some true hd music.
What’s your 3 way system on Hypex
Or instead buy Neumann KH310 + KH750 and youve also a correction software or Genelecs GLM... there are a few options out there with DSP / Correction build in
👍🌟👍
This is so cool, and now I have a better understanding of how DIRAC can be implemented. Wondering/would be nice if it could be integrated as a plugin (albeit simpler) though Volumio at least have the option of bringing it in with different transports that support it. Also to get away from the usb only application outside of purchasing an amp that already has it.
I tried the code Rum & Brandy, but it didn’t work 🙀☠️⁉️!!! On a more serious note, I really wished you would have challenged him on what might might make someone not like using it above 250hz and all the 2 channel people who give it a good try and fail to get an improvement.. and if there is anything they can do if they don’t. It’s really marketed as this one shot solution and there is very little information on optimizing the process, do and donuts etc… I do love the premise of Dirac, but after spending money on a calibrated measurement mic and spending 3 full nights measuring and curving with two trials, the best I can say it I liked it with all options off and a curtain below 250. Anything else and it made the sound stage small and bound to the plane of the speakers and took away all the dimentionality and space between instruments afforded by my tube pre. Really, it made everything sound a little like entry level pro audio home gear from yesteryear.
For Cheap Audio: DDRC24 + a Behringer A800 amplifier + QAcoustics 3030i + a couple of subs. Whole system well under 2k - closer to 1.5k. You will be amazed. Stream from PC or CD or Phono or Phone/Tablet, whatever your taste.
Most audio folk avoid having their computer connected to the music system.
Big mistake, tbh. People don't realize they have embedded digital circuits everywhere. Good technology will not pollute your clean analog sound. The problem is not in the digital, but in the proper implementation. Properly done it solves lots of problems.
The problem is "noise", not "digital".
Most audio folks are clueless and still think all digital is bad and only analog is the truth... , Most People, isnt always a reason for ,, the best or correct way,,
Speak to me like I’m five years old LOL
Please consider having Apple TV support I have my new Apple TV to my Hypex nCore amp and 3 way diy speakers I love the simplicity of Airplay cause I play everything from Apple Music. I don’t wish to use a mac as a Cpu to run Dirac
Or miniDSP should buy off Dirac and offer lower prices and sell more units
I can't afford this corner of youtube
Please talk to Pionner people and get them to integrate Dirac in their decks I have a 80PRS superb audiophile deck and don’t wish to add Anither hardware in car line miniDSP to run Dirac
I hope Apple buys Dirac and incorporates in the MacOS iOS and Apple TVos and carOS
Dirac should lower prices so more users can adopt I have 3 rooms current pricing I cannot afford
Marketing !
Dirac is far too expensive for what it is, Swedish way of life... They like money. There are other dsp far less expensive.
If it worked it might be needed but I personally haven’t gotten it to work on my NAD T778 for about 3 months! I just use a SPL meter at 75db and my perimetric EQ’s included in my duel SVS setup, It takes a bit longer but the results I think are equal to or better than Dirac. P.S. I upgraded from Anthem but their ARC room correction has always worked flawlessly NOT DIRAC! Don’t believe the hype..
An interesting conversation about a tech that I would really love to add into my setup.
It would be so good if the people at Dirac could work with the people at Roon to integrate into the Roon server... Then the processing could take place before the network bridge hands it off to the Mscaler and Dac. Just an idea. I am sure that someone will correct me if this is a poor idea. Greetings to one and All
Mac Mini Roon server - Auralic Aries G2.1 - Chord Mscaler/Hugo TT2 - Leema Hydra II - Spatial M3 Sapphires.