Did these Pilots MISS the AIRPORT because they were SLEEPING?’
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- Опубликовано: 30 авг 2022
- Spot media bias and outsmart algorithms with Ground News: ground.news/MentourNow 💕
On Monday 22nd August 2022, a Boeing 737-800 from #ethiopian Airlines from Khartoum headed for Ethiopia’s capital, Addis Ababa overshot their destination airport on at 37,000 feet! Reports are suggesting that the pilots were #asleep and were unable to configure the aircraft for the #descent phase of the flight.
Could that actually be true? aAre there any #aircraft features that could have prevented this and how did the flight crew realise their mistake? Let's explore!
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Sources
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What is your position of covid1984 jabs for pilots? So many have been injured and can’t fly. How have you managed with these mandates?
Have you or your crew removed a passenger for not wearing a mask 😷 or wearing a political mask?
I think this is what is kil ling airlines.
I'm having difficulty spotting the bias here. I need ground news.
I'm not surprised if they fell asleep.
I *_AM_* surprised it doesn't happen more often.
Few countries require that pilots, bus drivers, truck drivers, or any employees, work reasonable hours and then get to go home and get a good long night's sleep between shifts.
Got anything about the airfrance fight.
I’d love to learn more about that flight where the pilots made the Pan-Pan call due to acute fatigue. I can only imagine the amount of discipline/CRM/professionalism it would take to jointly decide to make that call.
Interesting
What flight was that
@@zorilaz Flight AB9721. Mentioned at 9:48
yeah, i was about to make a similar comment. seriously can’t emphasize how confidence inspiring and admirable that call was
btw obviously the other comment is a scam, don't fall for it
Having worked nights myself I have a lot of sympathy for those who have to do it. The world is geared for people sleeping at night so when you want to sleep in the day it is often too noisy, too hot, too light or whatever.
I work flexible hours at my own job, which ironically is at my local airport on one of the ground handling teams. At the moment I’m being made to work night shifts. While I do object to having to do an entire month of night shifts when one week is fine, two weeks is acceptable, three weeks is pushing it and four weeks just isn’t fair, I’m not complaining because for the moment it suits my purpose.
I’m not a fan of summer time, especially when we’re out on an open airfield with very little shade and we have planes with active APUs kicking out a lot of heat. Even more so given that the uniform is thick, red and black plus a high vis vest on top of that. I’ve been getting severely overheated while working days. So I’m not going to object to nights until about the third week in September when the weather should cool down to acceptable levels. After that if I’m still on nights there will be hell to pay.
But yeah I largely avoid the low energy part of the night with a decent dose of caffeine and time it so that the crash comes after I get home. Usually that works but I always have sleeping tablets available should I need them.
I've always preferred night shift.
I think most of "the world" is balanced enough for night shift workers, especially with the ability to 24 hour stores and online shopping.
I'm a natural night person, as was my Mom.
if your sourroundiong knows, it's fine. Meaning that your neighbours don't ring. Your family if around should be able to leave you alone too. To have deliveries dropped of somewhere else is easier today than it ever was. And most importantly: The phone is off, when sleeping. No compromises.
Doign different shitfs, day, evening, night, i also prefer the non-day shifts.
@@mikoto7693 Hot showers just before bed help... at least, they do for me. Primes your body full of that heat to drop, and the temperature falling is almost as good as knock-out drops...
I've also found riding a motorcycle to be VERY effective at keeping me awake and alert to get home. I don't know you (obviously) and it might not be for everyone. BUT negotiating traffic even in decent gear is... well... "exciting" enough to chase away droopy eyes and yawning for a while. Admittedly, it comes with a certain calculated risk-factor, but everyone has to assess their own risks and determine what's "worth it" or not.
I've started with a short trip to the nearest relatively clear parking lot to "practice" with figure-8's or some other drills, low speed maneuvers, just whatever to get my mind engaged with riding, and then hit the street with intentions to get home in one piece. Only had one place where traffic was nuts trying to get out at shift-change. AND I'd grab coffee and wait until that thinned out, and then do the parking lot practice right there at work. The security guys only bugged me once, but as soon as they understood what I was doing to "wake up" for the road, they were cool.
AND of course, here's where I happily admit that I'd just about rather ride a motorcycle than breathe if given the choice. I LOVE it... but I'm also occasionally accused of being "a bit of a nut". ;o)
Two pilots had a fistfight in the cockpit recently, too, apparently. Some are sleeping, some are fighting, most are actually flying.
Hopefully most are flying...🙂
Working on ships I am surprised that airplanes have no such thing as a Watch Alarm. A button or sensor that needs to be activated every 12 minutes or it will sound an alarm to make sure the officer of the watch doesn't fall asleep. A very useful small piece of equipment
In Poland the train drivers also have such a button that they need to press every minute (!) though for me it seems way too often and I think I would go crazy
@@Part_121_Wannabe
You wouldn't believe what can happen in one minute when a train is going 60 kmph, weighing tens of thousands of tons. It's a serious job that tolerates no mistakes, not even for a minute.
And I'm sure it's just a wireless clicker they hold in their hands, not a huge wall mounted lever they need to pull. THAT would be annoying. lol
@@mickeypopa In the video I watched there was actually a button. I will link you to the video, it's a Polish channel showing different jobs. In this case it's a freight train driver working for PKP which is our national trains operator. He can be seen clicking the button multiple times during the video for example here at 19:35 .
ruclips.net/video/qjxst1A9rRE/видео.html
@@Part_121_Wannabe
Yeah, I watched a few minutes and he does do it roughly every minute. But it's still within the arm's reach and a small button, so it's not overly annoying. 😁
Now that you shared the actual video of it in action, it does make sense that you have to be in the driver's seat in order to push it, otherwise you could do something else and still have the train fooled that you're paying attention when you're not. Thanks for sharing the info! 👍
@@mickeypopa no problem mate :)
I remember doing some back of the clock shifts when I worked with Kia and we had to shift 2'500 cars in 48 hours a few times. Not only were we not on our normal shift of 8a-8p but on the reversed 8p-8a, but we did it within the same week and swapped back a day later.
We had several incidents, close calls, actual crashes on and off site, and a couple people did fall asleep at the wheel as well as on the transport buses.
Working those hours is no joke... Especially if you aren't used to them.
Absolutely right
@@MentourNow I did slightly better because I was still used to working till 4a after working in a bar, but the 1.5hr commute home was an absolute killer because I was both very tired and hitting rush hour traffic. I do NOT miss those 12hr shifts 13 days on, 1 off days, lol.
Where did you work, North Korea?
I had a retail job where I worked days but had to do one overbite each week to switch out sale items and do inventory and such. The manager gave us a day off afterwards but then we switched back to days. Switching back and forth was rough.
I’d have a schedule like M 6-10pm, T 1:30-10pm W 8am-1:30pm Th off F 3-8pm S 10pm-6am Su off and repeat. It varied a bit every week, but the constant change in schedule, especially staying up all night once a week and working mornings and evenings otherwise, was so hard!
I recently got distracted in a stressful conversation while sitting at a red light (it was about 10pm), it regarding something that happened earlier in the day. Even though I wasn't on my phone and I had been looking at the lights and the road in front of me the whole time, when the cars in the left turn lane started turning, I just accelerated like i had a green light, luckily I realized my error soon enough. I normally don't make serious mistakes like that, just goes to show how distracting a deep conversation can be, especially while stressed.
There are car brands that have invented a system that scans the driver continuously and can recognize when the driver is nodding off and give an alarm. Maybe something for airliners as well ?
Boeing (not sure about Airbus) has something for the EICAS equipped aircraft where if nothing is touched for 10 minutes it sets off some alarm and then again louder after another 10 or something like that
My Mercedes has the infamous. "coffee cup" display
Aftermarket stereo and heavy metal banging at around 80+ decibels. Trust me, you won't fall asleep driving on me. ;o)
True story from decades ago.
A friend worked for a company that ran a small twin turboprop between company sites a couple times per week. There were a couple times when the friend was scheduled to ride the flight but got “bumped” when a high level exec needed the seat. When this happened, he would have to go to a different airport and fly commercial.
Finally, one day, he got on the company flight. About half way through he poked his head through the cockpit curtain and discovered both pilots sound asleep. He woke them up and there was plenty of embarrassment with each pilot indicating he thought the other was flying the plane.
Well, nothing further ever came of it. Except…my friend was never again bumped from the flight. Silence comes at a price.
Hardly gained something valuable. I WOULDNT want to ever be flying what were obviously 2 slack pilots. If they were slack on that what else were they slack on. What was his victory? Getting a regular seat on a plane with 2 dysfunctional pilots ? Woohoo
Ethiopian airlines is a world class airline and a star alliance member. Just last year it finalized plans and has started the construction of a new airport in the town of bishuftu for the hefty price of 5 billion dollars.
The amount of discipline and professionalism required to make such a career shattering call for help in a situation involving acute fatigue is immense. Because of the call they saved lives. Bravo.
This is a very professional, and honest video. I hope the full report comes out soon for a deeper analysis into what really happened. EAL is one of the best carriers in the world and has a very solid reputation indeed. Love from Addis Ababa!
I'd like to compliment you in 3 different ways (it seems we have a few things in common). As a private pilot, I love and appreciate the great detail and tremendous care you take in the production of your videos. With all the garbage out there on RUclips, it's simply a pleasure to watch your channel - not only for the content in general, but for care you take with the facts. 2nd, as an English teacher, I'm really happy to see someone who's excelled at (I presume) a non-native language. And finally, as a former network television reporter and editor, I appreciate the overall production quality of your channel. Thanks for the information, and especially for all the hard work very few people will ever fully appreciate. :-)
I actually like flying back of clock as a passenger, because it makes it easier to sleep on the airplane. but when I've needed to work back of clock, I've always wanted to change my whole wake-sleep schedule to prevent drowsiness problems.
What is back of clock..
Melatonin pills are your friends to get on the correct sleep schedule (doesn't work if you don't go to bed though)
@@marksmallman4572 it's just flying when you would normally be asleep in your home timezone. You could say I like flights during the time I would be sleeping since I can sleep on the plane easier. I guess some people like using new terms to sound intelligent
@@marksmallman4572 "Overnight flight" is probably what we'd call it
Just wanted to say that I appreciate your (very polite) refusal to speculate beyond the evidence here. It would be great if aviation reporters in mainstream media would learn to do that.
@fakementournow🙄. Look, something here for you too! FRO! Niiice place. Safe travels to that specific destination. Pathetic Bravo Oscar Tango.
My circadian rhythm is kind of backwards so that I actually feel most awake at night. I get my sleepiest time right around sunrise and then, if I have to force myself to stay up during the daytime, I start to feel that irresistible sense of tiredness in the afternoon between about 3 pm and 6 pm. Then, if I let myself sleep in the day like my body wants, it wakes up around sunset. I have been like this since I was a baby.
Same! We're blessed or cursed, who knows!
You a freight pilot? If not. Perfect job for you...
I love how you pronounced the airport name: it's actually pronounced bɔːlei instead of just bɔːl ... written as Bole (ቦሌ in Amharic). That's my country... hehe... been following your channel for long and this is first incident from Ethiopia. We do have a solid reputation thanks to the Lord.
Reminds me of Northwest Airlines flight 188 as it also passed the destination airport before turning around!
Yep, I have a full video on that over on Mentour Pilot
@@MentourNow I saw that one as well! Also, this Ethiopian incident took place on August 15.
Indeed - and the only other thinkable reason next to sleeping is a deep distraction like it happened on Northwest Airlines Flight 188 - or not so long ago at the PIA flight who crashed in Karachi in May 2020.
Yeah but those pilots were just distracted by their intense discussion about scheduling software... or so they said.
@@toddsmith8608 Yes, indeed. Some doubted this story. And the Pakistani Pilots were distracted by their discussion about the Covid-Pandemia.
As someone who has worked nights for a long time I can say with experience it’s often hard to get the rest needed at the start of a night shift turn so you end up staying awake for 24 hours + for me personally I find it hard to rest in preparation due to family commitments etc. I hope pilots find it easier to make time to rest.
@fakementournow🙄. Look, something here for you too! FRO! Niiice place. Safe travels to that specific destination. Pathetic Bravo Oscar Tango.
@@perry4003 🤣🤣🤣
I’m so impressed with all the videos lately ,the new format is so fabulous ,lots of graphics to help me more understand what happened as it is narrated .. the one about Tenerife was really great showing the 747’s on the runway and all the missteps that turned into a horrific tragedy . I’ve been watching for quite awhile and you get better each year in presenting the information.. thanks
I worked for a company which designed fatigue detection and mitigation systems. Currently available for road vehicles, last I heard they were pushing for other sectors, including Aviation.
Yes, I like videos of this length, particularly newsy ones while the available information is limited. Actually, I like videos of varying lenghts; if a title catches my attention but there isn't time to read it, I can still scan it briefly for the basic details and come back later for the entire story. On the other hand, an 8-15 minute video gives me a nice break just about any time of the day, so I look for those.
Regarding what other type of info would be appreciated, there are indeed topics I'd like to hear. For instance, I've been studying solar flares, storms and wind, etc for about 18 mos. One aspect of forecasts is radiation storming, which at times includes cautions/warnings about exposure for people flying at high altitudes in high latitudes. I'd never considered this an issue before but would like to ask how pilots and crews monitor exposure, what concerns they may have, and who is ultimately responsible for decisions to alter or deviate from flight routes.
Lastly, pilots falling asleep as discussed in this video is somewhat of an issue to me but not for the reason you might think. My internal clock is almost opposite; I'm a day sleeper, which made for miserable school days as a kid but mostly has been an advantage as an adult.
Thank you! That’s great feedback.
Air crew, especially long distance, get more radiation than nuclear workers.
@@MarkRose1337 Quick search suggests that you get 0.003 mSv/h of extra radiation at 30000 ft and yearly limit for nuclear workers is 20 mSv. Getting over the nuclear worker safety limit would require more than about 6000 hours per year above 30000 ft assuming normal background conditions on ground. I'd assume most airline workers do less hours per year.
To put these numbers into perspective, yearly natural background radiation here in Finland is about 3.2 mSv per year.
In the end, no amount of radiation is truly safe but the nuclear worker limit of 20 mSv is considered safe in practice.
@@MikkoRantalainen Two things: there is a lot more cosmic radiation at 40,000 feet than 30,000 feet. A basic Geiger counter easily shows a difference every 1000 feet over 30,000. Short flights that top out at 30,000 result in much less exposure. Flights through aurora borealis result in a lot more exposure.
The second point is that most radiation workers get nowhere near their maximum allowable amounts.
Studies have shown flight crew have a higher incidence of cancer than the general population. I can't link or RUclips will hide my comment, but it's easily googleable.
@@MarkRose1337 If you write the full title and author name of the study that you consider the most trustworthy, it will be easy to find and will not be blocked by RUclips.
I wonder what it feels like as passenger or cabin crew to realize we missed not only our landing time but also the entire airport.
"fell asleep and miss the airport"
sounds like me on my first time in the sim from manila to singapore-
As usual, thorough, fair & factual, and interesting. You have a real gift for story-telling; any time I watch one of your videos, I'm completely absorbed--no distractions when you're talking!
Im glad you covered every detail of this because some of us (not me I promise) had no idea any of this happened.
I am always excited when you update! This is a fantastic short video, really informative and I love that the incident happened recently as its a great contrast to your super detailed accident investigation style videos!
@fakementournow🙄. Look, something here for you too! FRO! Niiice place. Safe travels to that specific destination. Pathetic Bravo Oscar Tango.
Petter ,airlines are looking primarily at bottom lines and profits to the detriment of everything else. A friend of mine is working at Indigo Airlines in India and he mentioned the rosters are designed to extract the maximum work out of the pilots. These rosters are not designed by pilots or former pilots who understand fatigue,human performance or what motivates pilots to put in extra hours but by people holding masters in business administration who are constantly only concerned by optimization problems. The end result is that pilots at Indigo are made to work close to or very close to their maximum work time limits almost all days of the month. There is no such thing as regular sleep hours- One day it is 6am, the next day it is 3pm,the other it is 8pm and the following day it might be 2 am .That takes a huge toll on human performance and results in massive fatigue. The other thing my pilot mentioned was that at his old airline ( Jet Airways) he used to do certain sectors for extended periods and he would more often than not get to fly with the same set of Captains and flight crew . There was better bonding and everyone knew everyone else by their first name. My pilot friend also mentioned that even though he was performing the SAME amount of flight hours ( 80-85 hours per month on average) at Indigo and at Jet, he was feeling EXHAUSTED at Indigo and burnt out because of the crazy roster playing havoc with circadian rhythms!!...He now regularly catches viral infections because his immune system has taken a huge hit.... He mentioned that many pilots regularly report sick.
And what about the human bonding?- that's gone out of the window....as opposed to meeting more or less the same Captains and flight crew, now my pilot friend mentioned that over the last year of flying, he would have probably flown with the same person maybe at the most 3 times...if he's lucky.
My pilot friend also mentioned that the top management of the company are going around in their fancy BMW cars while the pilots, cabin crew and other people vital to the airline are taking pay cuts !!...
Human beings CANNOT be reduced to optimization problems... These MBA bastards are the kind who make the logical fallacy that if one woman can make a baby in 9 months, then 9 women can make the same baby in one month !!!...only it doesn't work that way
If this goes on a major incident is only waiting to happen !
That's terrifying! A matter of when, not if. People are not machines!
That's why they want to replace man with robots. No restroom breaks or sick leave...
That you don't launch right into blame amazes me. I was taught to do things by discipline, and for that it always meant blame if you did not do it right. As a result, I have always been on alert for any mistakes that I may make. But mistakes and chewing someone out is often about putting someone in "fight or flight" and this for me was to just "save face" and not be humiliated. I stayed in this trauma for most of my adult life, not realizing at all what it was! Hearing you and your approach to "mistakes" is not to make it a moral issue but to see what that need is and to fix it. It sounds like you respect pilots and ALL of their problems and this makes you an excellent instructor, even for non-pilot enthusiasts (learners of aviation). Thanks for these lessons!
You‘ll probably never see this, but I‘d be interested in a video where you go over differences between the US & Europe in ATC terminology, maybe rules or similar?
I personally think examining the differences would be rather interesting, since there could be so many reasons for that?
Plus, I‘ve seen & heard of a few incidents where the differences in “ATC slang“ caused problems...
Great production as always ^^
#shionamamiya Use this text to tag some one on RUclips exclude the parentheses (#personname) no spaces just pound sign example #shionamamiya or #mentornow
It was great working with you! Thanks for helping share our mission.
Thanks. I have been expecting this topic.
What can you tell us about the two Air France pilots who got into a physical altercation in the cockpit shortly after takeoff? I think any passenger would be quite alarmed to know that their pilots were physically fighting each other during flight.
they are french they still fight over onions
Thanks for touching base with us on this one. Looking forward to your analysis of the full report over on the Mentour Pilot channel.
Love everything about this channel!
Thanks again Mentour !
Yes those small hours are horrible. I used to work for an agency where we sometimes had to work from 9am until 3am. After midnight you certainly start to feel how you are not getting anything done any more, or if, then at half speed. As for the technical side here: they should adopt all the useful technology that’s used in cars or trains to ensure no one falls asleep.
sky version of a rumble strip.
Thank you for sharing
I'd love to hear your opinion on a flight that happened in my area a few weeks ago. A CASA C-212 Aviocar (N497CA) was doing skydiving runs and on it's way to pick up it's 3rd group of people, The co-pilot was flying the approach and descended below the tree line, they initiated a go-around, but before they could pull up, the plane touched down very hard and substantially damaged the right main landing gear. after going around and doing a low pass over the airport they diverted to RDU intl for an emergency landing. On the way there, the SIC began to look visibly upset and said he felt sick and needed air. He opened the ramp in the back of the aircraft. He then walked back there with no harness or parachute and either fell or jumped out. The pilot then made an emergency landing at RDU and was treated for minor injuries.
There are two theories. 1: the SIC intentionally committed suicide, or 2: the co-pilot lost his footing and slipped
Personally I believe in theory number 1. The SIC was only 23, and was a big aviation enthusiast, probably watched some of your videos. and after being responsible for an accident like that, he thought his aviation career was over, and that no airline would hire him after that. Sadly, we will never be able to know for sure. I'd love to hear your opinion on what you think may have happened.
NTSB Preliminary Report: aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=20220729-0
Great job as always. You’re the best.
I do my best! Glad you liked it!
@@MentourNow Many of us really like it ;)
Thank you for covering this and explaining more than the headline
@fakementournow🙄. Look, something here for you too! FRO! Niiice place. Safe travels to that specific destination. Pathetic Bravo Oscar Tango.
And the excellent content just keeps coming from Mentour!
@fakementournow🙄. Look, something here for you too! FRO! Niiice place. Safe travels to that specific destination. Pathetic Bravo Oscar Tango.
Great job Petter.Interesting story.
Did you do a video on that Brazilian flight that flew in the exact opposite direction than planned, eventually crash landing in the Amazon when they ran out of fuel several hours later? Passengers survived the crash, but I can't remember if some died trying to survive in the jungle until rescued. There was a football match going on at the time too. Now THAT was a shocking case.
Not yet. It’s an interesting one though
If I remember right from a different video, passengers who regularly flew the route could tell something was off because they couldn't recognize the scenery below.
You refer to Varig 254.
According to the Wikipedia page, this happened on Sept. 3, 1989. The pilots were sentenced to jail but it was reduced to community service. 12 people died.
@@MentourNow there is a very detailed video made by a Brazilian aviation channel called "aviões e músicas" and a old 3 part interview with a 5 min video answering a question he made with one of the pilots
When I see a new podcast I'm overjoyed. Love this guy
Thank you! 💕
This one is a bit shorter but that’s because we don’t know much yet.
Have you done a video on the Berlin flight? That would be interesting as well. I applaud those pilots, who clearly knew themselves well enough to be concerned.
Not all people have a night-based circadian clock, by the way.
Plenty of folk feel absolutyly drained during the light of the day and then fire up at night, it all depends on the person.
Between 2 and 6 pm I ALWAYS need a nap, no matter what schedule I'm on.
Very much like this short, concise format - thank you!
Fatigue can be a devastating. I read where a pilot fell asleep on approach between the OM and the MM. At a time when you should be at your most alert state this person was so fatigued they just dropped off in middle of the ILS. I have dropped off in the middle of a conversation due to lack of sleep but I was sitting in my longue chair at the time so no problem.....sort of. I was in the middle of eating a meal and I woke up some time later with a mouth full of partially chewed food.
Flight Duty Times suck and are abused by the beancounters.
I'll be really interested in how this investigation proceeds. I've now been working permanent 12 hour nightshifts (8pm-8am) in my UK desk-based IT role for around 9 years and I remain in night pattern during my rest days, so my body clock is fully acclimatised to night hours. Despite all this, I still occasionally feel myself starting to drift around 5am and I have to do something to stay alert. What I find curious about this story is that, if the crew had indeed fallen asleep, that it would have affected both the pilot flying and the pilot monitoring. Unless there was some environmental reason such as with the air supply, I wouldn't expect 2 different people to hit the same circadian low at the same time and recover at the same time. That's what makes me think other factors are at play, and we will have to wait for the final report. Thanks as always to Petter for another great & thought provoking video.
I worked shifts at one time. After working 12am to 8am, I was very thankful when the person taking over showed up ontime/early.
@fakementournow🙄. Look, something here for you too! FRO! Niiice place. Safe travels to that specific destination. Pathetic Bravo Oscar Tango.
I'm a retired RR engineer who began my career in 1970. At that time is was common to work 16 hour shifts. I almost quit several times.
@fakementournow🙄. Look, something here for you too! FRO! Niiice place. Safe travels to that specific destination. Pathetic Bravo Oscar Tango.
It has been a blessing as the music stopped at 9:09. Thank you! :)
Petter/Mentour,
Great video and subject - thank you!
Im hoping that you will discuss the incident on 8.26.22 UA23 B764 that lost a large exterior panel climbing out of Newark. The crew reported a large 'bang' at FL160 but did not return to the airport and continued on to Dublin (where the aircraft remains).
Paul (in MA USA)
I like that you did not speculate about what happened with this flight crew like all the media articles out there concluding the pilots fell asleep when we don't know that for a fact. I'm a physician in the US and we work very long hours, especially in training when we can go up to 30 hours without sleep. It's amazing that we survive these brutal shifts. I bet many medical errors can be avoided if we in medicine took a similar approach to what the aviation industry has done.
PS: I would love to see you cover the flight where the crew called a pan pan due to acute fatigue. Thanks for the great content, I hit the "subscribe" button
Knyangal: I've never understood the 24+ hr shifts of interns, residents, etc. Makes zero sense to me. Thoughts?
When will a video can come in the channel of mentour pilot....I love the videos on that channel...Keep up the good work
As soon as we have a final report and it’s interesting enough
Amazing video explaining
Thank you
Don't assume everyone has a normal, 24 hour circadian rythm. MY body screams that i need to sleep.... usually around 7 AM. I am most alert, awake and efficient at night and barely functioning, if awake at all, before noon. I also have delayed sleep in phases and then i wake up and fall asleep a few hours later every day. It can happen to pilots too, so "Circadian Lows" don't apply to everyone equally.
This seems like the kind of situation where the cabin crew would or at least could be a valuable resource. They outnumber the cockpit crew, and all of them are kept awake tending to the needs of passengers. They've been briefed on when to expect the plane to descend to approach altitude. There's a fair chance one is going to notice when that doesn't happen.
@fakementournow🙄. Look, something here for you too! FRO! Niiice place. Safe travels to that specific destination. Pathetic Bravo Oscar Tango.
@@perry4003 they did, actually. Reporting works!
I heard the stewardess ask the Captain if he wanted coffee when I was flying CVG to LAX in February. I wish I had the exact flight info so I could look it up. I never even realized the cabin crew used that as a code to disguise waking them up. All is well now, but it's scary to know no one was controlling the plane until they got a wake up call, so to speak.
Just to be clear, asking the crew if they want coffee or anything else is not a code to disguise waking them up. It is an excuse to talk to them to make sure that everything is ok. Hearing what you heard does not mean that the crew was asleep. It simply means that the flight attendant was checking in with them to see how they were doing and making sure that nothing was wrong such as them being asleep.
Agreed, that's a vast misinterpretation of what Petter said, and not likely the case at all.
Ironic, I wish I could sleep now but here I am watching another great Mentour vid.
2:13 I’ve been working the overnight shift for a little over 8 years now so I can definitely relate to this. My sleep schedule is flipped 5 days a week and even on my off days I find myself going to bed halfway through the day and waking up at 2 or 3 am because that’s what I’m used to.
I tried looking up how jet lag would come into play for those who work overnight and how to adjust or if adjusting is needed but I couldn’t find anything helpful.
@fakementournow🙄. Look, something here for you too! FRO! Niiice place. Safe travels to that specific destination. Pathetic Bravo Oscar Tango.
As a firefighter in a municipal department, sleep was permitted, but not guaranteed. I remember going to a house fire at 11:30 PM, extinguish, overhaul, wait for investigator to process the scene, clean up at the scene, clean up the handlines dragged through a hoarder's house, clean up personal equipment and shower. It was 5:30am by this point. I passed out and my relief showed up an hour later. My ass was dragging and getting more sleep was not an option. Glad to have retired and not deal with crazy nights like that.
Nice video.
Also I would like a short video about the AirFrance fighting pilots. How can one fight over the mid console, without damaging or change settings on it? Or did one pilot get out of his chair to fight the other?
Coming up
@@MentourNow
No need to be stealing the "tag lines" of other aviation RUclipsrs now...
😎🤣
@@bjornnilsson1827 hahaha
The French will fight with their own grandma's
@@danjackson2014 but not with the Germans 🤔
Hey we've all been there. I mean, not while flying, but on the freeway and when I'm at work performing operations.
1:34 to 1:36: Mt. Whitney and nearby mountains as seen from Lone Pine, California
If you think flying a plane with fatigue is troublesome, think of all the people who are driving every day around you who are half asleep at the wheel.
@fakementournow🙄. Look, something here for you too! FRO! Niiice place. Safe travels to that specific destination. Pathetic Bravo Oscar Tango.
Ban that airline from ever flying over Europe ever again
I think that there also are some at least similar factors which caused Air Canada Flight 759 near-disaster situation.
Reminds me of that flight that flew over Minneapolis (I think) because the pilots were discussing the schedule system.
Very tricky subject captain, a lot of things are kept quiet internally on many airlines about this topic unfortunately. Profits are number one priority, pushing crews to the limits of regulations, minutes short of exceeding duty times and flight times, everything is kept legal. Unfortunately the human body doesn’t have a magic button to shut it down in the middle of the day and get a nice 8hr sleep before flights like this.
@fakementournow🙄. Look, something here for you too! FRO! Niiice place. Safe travels to that specific destination. Pathetic Bravo Oscar Tango.
I've waited for your review of the Ethiopian airlines Flight 302 for ages. The event of 10 March 2019, the Boeing 737 MAX 8
I love how you pronounced the airport's name: it's actually pronounced bɔːlei instead of just bɔːl ... written as Bole (ቦሌ in Amharic). That's my country... hehe... been following your channel for long and this is first incident from Ethiopia. We do have a solid reputation as you mentioned... thanks to the Lord.
I was aircrew on the C-130 and one of our navigators once told me that he awoke from a nap on a night flight and the pilots and flight engineer were all asleep. It probably happens a lot more than people realize.
Oh i knew this one was coming. I saw the headline when it occurred and thought poor Petter is getting DM bombed
😅
sometimes companies use hours of duty limitations as targets rather than the maximum allowed.
If you have to ask "did the pilots fall asleep?" the answer is yes. Regardless of what the pilots claim.
Like that last one where they tried claiming they were "distracted" doing company stuff on their tablets. That was almost laughable the lie was so dumb....and they were fired accordingly.
@fakementournow🙄. Look, something here for you too! FRO! Niiice place. Safe travels to that specific destination. Pathetic Bravo Oscar Tango.
Seeing this in my feed was a pleasant surprise.
I hope you liked it! 💕
@@MentourNow Absolutely fantastic! You and your team do great work.
Ethiopian's logo looks like the lobes of the RNAV antenna (for vertical control) you mentioned in another video.
Wow, I didn't realise that true airspeed increases as aircraft altitude increases!
Okay you convinced me, I'll get ground news app. Lol.
No, honestly. That's why I disabled "sponsor lock" on your channel 😂
"3:30am...this is the time of the day where the human body clock is set to sleep" - Where can I get one of these clocks? Mine is apparently faulty and needs to be replaced.
@fakementournow🙄. Look, something here for you too! FRO! Niiice place. Safe travels to that specific destination. Pathetic Bravo Oscar Tango.
The irony in listening to a story talking about how hard it is to work during the night as I drive to my 10pm-8am shift as an aircraft mechanic 😅. It really is not easy staying awake.
@fakementournow🙄. Look, something here for you too! FRO! Niiice place. Safe travels to that specific destination. Pathetic Bravo Oscar Tango.
I don’t even have to watch to know what is coming.
“There are many factors and the blame isn’t solely on the pilots” “This could happen to anyone”
Hi. Love your channel. Very informative and well presented. Do we know anything behind the Chinese plane crash? The place just dove straight down. But no news about any investigations
True story:
My dad has been flying smaller planes since 1978, when he was 14. He once dozed off in a glider and woke up couple of minutes later in a prohibited airspace. Thankfully no one reported him and the plane was trimmed well so he did not crash.
Indeed, as usual it's wise to wait for the outcome of the final report. This event reminds a bit the ITA Airways one. The flight from JFK to FCO. Pilots didn't respond to ATC in Marseille for a certain period of time.. Well the rest is history. Pilot fatigue is an issue. Same fatigue which affects also who is doing night shifts. I experienced that myself during a stretch of time when doing night shifts. Glad both pilots managed to land the plane safely.
How laughable attempt🙄. I do have something for you though! FRO! And that's not an actual airport destination. Safe travels to that specific destination though. Pathetic Bravo Oscar Tango.
We’ll need a similar episode on the Air France “brawl” in the cockpit, Petter.
@fakementournow🙄. Look, something here for you too! FRO! Niiice place. Safe travels to that specific destination. Pathetic Bravo Oscar Tango.
Hi can you make a video about Pan Am 914 flight Mistery. I am from Caracas and someone told me this unbelievable story ! Thanks Big Fan
My point to get video recording inside air planes now makes more sense to me :)
When showing times, always show UTC along with local time, so we can calculate flight time.
I am honored to hear mentour say my country's name haha
I am from sudan
If the pilots fell asleep due fatigue leading to an incident it wouldn't be the first time at Ethiopian.
Remember ET90 back in 2010? And the rebuttal by the Ethiopian of the investigation on that accident and the way the Ethiopians are running the ET302 investigation shows to me that we probably won't know what really happened and won't get a full report.
At the time the company seemed to be more interested in giving a safe image rather than actually being safe
Great vid as usual. Back ground music spoils it though. Detracts from what your saying.
Would be nice if you could explain what would the auto pilot do exactly if the crew fall a sleep or incapacitated :)
It would revert to control wheel steering if there is no route left to fly.. that’s basically just maintaining the last known inputs
like MH370 ....
@@danielch6662 MH 370 is a whole different and much more complex story!
I usually aim at close 7.5 hours rem but often land way below.
It makes me kinda cranky. But coffee usually keep me going for a while although it is not a substitute for good sleep.
When heading out on long flights then i try to time my sleep & coffee intake before the last leg and stretch home and depending on whether its HAM or CPH or BLL i got a emergency red bull.
Hi! talking about distraction...In Argentina, in 2005 a famous vedette travelling from one city to other was invited to the cockpit by the two pilots. Passangers could head laughs and taks (in loud voice). Inside the cockpit the two pilots a6nd Vicky Xipolitakis (that's her name) had almost a party and they were filming a video. In the video you can see her accelerating the aircraft during the take off. Both pilots were sanctionated and they are both divorsed because of this incident. Have you ever heard about this? There are a lot of information and even the video in internet. (Love your videos, both channels). Thanks! Carla
The crew hit the snooze button on the alarm clock one too many times. 🤣🤣🤣
Interested in details about the flight that called pan pan for fatigue
Everything what we now today indicates that there probably was a serious fatigue problem on the flight deck. What else could explain all the known facts in comparison? There´s an interesting discussion about the topic on Av.Herald.
We will see if there will be something like a Final Report on this Incident. Maybe in five or seven years. Maybe!
I remember something like this happened to Mesa/Go! A few years ago.
@fakementournow🙄. Look, something here for you too! FRO! Niiice place. Safe travels to that specific destination. Pathetic Bravo Oscar Tango.
Mr. Peter, Plz update us about this Flight whenever possible (I'm from Khartoum-Sudan)
@fakementournow🙄. Look, something here for you too! FRO! Niiice place. Safe travels to that specific destination. Pathetic Bravo Oscar Tango.