Machining a Straight Edge Casting on the B&S Horizontal Mill!
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- Опубликовано: 15 фев 2024
- Support My Work on Patreon: / herschtoolroom
In this project I'll be machining an 18" cast iron straight edge using my Brown & Sharpe Horizontal Milling Machine.
As a "bonus" 😢 I will be dealing with 3 phase power issues along the way.
I'll be juggling 3 phase converter connections, and really second guessing my decision to not invest in rotary power in the first place... LOL
This will be my first ever experience using a horizontal mill, so there is a bit of a learning curve to overcome, and a bit of change in thinking that's necessary when it comes to setting up the work and the overall machining strategy.
But in the end, I learned a lot, I was able to experiment with work holding techniques that I've never used before, and was very pleased with how nice it was to work on the B&S mill.
I am now more motivated than ever to complete all of the work I want to do on that machine and make it my "go to" milling machine.
If you have any questions, comments, or criticisms please leave a comment below!
My Lathe: MSC / Prince 9517350 - 13x40 Manual Metal Lathe
My Milling Machine: Bridgeport Variable Speed Series 1 "J Head"
My other Milling Machine: Brown & Sharpe No. 2 Plain "light type" Universal Milling Machine
CREDITS:
Music and Sound Effects courtesy of www.epidemicsound.com
/ @hersch_tool
When you machined the bevel the clamps should be directly over the blocks you applied a bowing force
Yeah it definitely did, I'll surely have to deal with the effects of that later when I scrape it.
Fettling is a reasonably common term in England - any small adjustment - "I had to fettle the spark plug gap to get the motor to run properly"
Haha you're not gonna believe it but I almost made a comment where I said that it sounded like a British word to me... 😂 I kid you not, I was thinking it the whole time...
@@hersch_tool my fave website etymonline says it's first documented in a lancashire dialect, from northern Middle English fettle "to make ready, fix, prepare, arrange." my addition would be "your mill is looking in fine fettle today!"
Im glad to see that you know How to use a hand File.Many so called RUclips machinist show they know nothing as a machinist taught apprenticeshiped into our profession..
Thank you very much for watching :)
That is a Glorious milling machine. Good work on the straightedge, I look forward to seeing some Scraping!
Yeah man, I am pretty much in love with it, such a beautiful piece of engineering and style. Almost 100 years old and still nicer than many machines made this morning lol. And thank you, hopefully will get to scraping it relatively soon. Cheers!
Hey David, very nice machinig, thank you again for sharing your work! I am always happy to see a new projekt coming up on your Channel 👍
Thank you very much!
Thanks for the video. Great idea using the v blocks for the final set up. That is very creative and perfect!
Thanks very much! And thank you for watching!
My younger brother in Georgia, who’s just starting his machine shop, had the same problem with his digital phase shifter. It overheated after a few minutes and had to be removed. It was replaced with the appropriate size VFD
He believes the DPS should be taken off the market.
You probably know that the casting will need to be stress relieved several times before it’s finally finished. Good luck.
Yeah, I've certainly learned my lesson. I'll be tossing this one in the garbage where it belongs lol
Very nice machining! You need to make sure you take off enough material to get through the outer layer, which is much harder than the base, and will make scraping impossible. This also means that on any transition from machined to raw casting that you plan to scrape, you need to machine in a relief.
I have this same casting, and have also finish scraped the smaller 6" version from Martin - turned out really well!
Thanks very much! And thanks for the info, I'll keep that in mind when it's time to scrape it. Thanks for watching btw!
I have a SuperMax YCM-2GS vertical/horizontal mill. Think a 40 taper Bridgeport on steroids, it's roughly 6300lbs. I personally love using the horizontal spindle for some setups it's significantly easier to not have to flip the part upwards to be in the correct orientation for the vertical spindle to access the features. Small line boring jobs are also super handy to do with the horizontal spindle, it just takes some practice and perspective to wrap your head around horizontal setups.
Yeah I can definitely see it becoming one of my favorite methods of machining on the mill. I really enjoyed using it for this project and am already thinking of ways I can tool up my work holding arsenal to better utilize it. It does take a bit of work to wrap your head around it and break that vertical spindle + Kurt style vise mindset. That's all I've ever known so it'll take some time but I'm looking forward to using it more and learning how to really unlock it's potential
I totally agree. It turned out very nice.
Thanks very much 🙂
Good job! Have fun scraping it in 👍🏼
Thanks very much!
Love the new vid format. Subbed
Find a way to get a rotary phase converter. Buy once, cry once. You will NEVER regret it. The porosity is not a big deal. Just indicates there were quite a bit of impurities in the casting. Maybe you didn't show it on camera, but once you machines off some of the material, it could have exposed some internal stresses, even if the casting had been properly stress relieved. Loosening the clamps (not completely of course) and taking another light pass or two, may save you a lot of scraping later.
Yeah I'm sure you're absolutely right about the rotary. And I was also thinking about the stresses I was creating when clamping down the casting as well, I'm sure that all of that is gonna come back to haunt me when I scrape it. I didn't even think of loosening the clamps to take light final pass, that would have been a great thing to do. Live and learn I guess lol, learned a lot on this one, a lot of firsts for me.
@@hersch_tool If we're not learning, we're not living!
@@MyLilMule amen to that!
Nice work 👍👍👍
Thanks very much!
Thx for the vid., and good luck on your 3ph. journey. I only know enough to get by or get in trouble. LOL
Haha, thanks and me too... I know enough to "usually" win the coin toss between electrocuting myself and getting my machines running, but that's about it.
Thanks for sharing the rollercoaster!
Lol thanks for watching 😉
Not sure how deep you went, but me and my buddy drug one of those #2 B&S home around the same ime you did and we'd like to see the work you did to clean it up and any of the mechanical maintenance you did to it. Love the channel, keep up the good work.
It was a LOT of work. I took 2 weeks vacation around the holidays and spent a lot of long days in the shop over those 2 weeks furiously working on the machine. That's what I was doing when I took my "holiday break" from making vids, I wasn't resting lol. Unfortunately, due to the amount of work involved, I didn't film it. If I'd have tried to film it I just wouldn't have been able to get much done and I really just wanted to get the machine up and running. Best advice I can give is to drain all of the gearboxes, change the sight glasses if they're too gummed up to see, make sure that the oil pump and the various feed systems are working using the sight glasses. Check the bearings in both motors, there's a solenoid in the little box right under where the feed controls are that activates the feeds, that might need to be changed. And wear a LOT of PPE. When I cleaned out the oil reservoir in the bottom of the machine it was filled with what can only be described as toxic waste. Run through all of the speed ranges for both the spindle and the power feeds. The "knee" is actually a big gear box that controls the power feeds/speeds. It can be dropped out of the bottom of the knee in one big piece. The gearbox for the spindle can be accessed by removing the speed selector plate on the side of the machine, remove the big square plate on the other and you can view straight through. Mine had seen some abuse and still has some things that need to be addressed, but they are built like tanks and can apparently withstand a lot. Good luck, they are beautiful machines.
@@hersch_tool thanks for the info buddy, that will be helpful!
May I suggest you connect your PhaseOmatic to a 3 phase idler motor.
The Idler motor will auto generate a 3rd phase you can hook up your machines as they were originally intended.
This can then become the central source of 3 phase and you won’t need separate converters for each machine.
Just don’t try to run all machines at once.
Thanks that sounds pretty logical to me. I'll have to do some research, my electrical knowledge is very weak I just barely squeak by and keep things running, but I will definitely look into it, thanks!
Straight up the rotary in the 7.5-15hp is worth it. It’s only like $2k for a new 7.5 which is what I did and it’s super reliable
Thanks, I actually have a small shed like 3 feet from my shop where I'm thinking I could even store the idler. Still mulling over my options but getting a lot of votes for rotary lol
@@hersch_tool so only concern I have is I’m not sure if I can run both the mill and the lathe at the same time as the mill has power feed and stops and the lathe (as I have a similar setup of 2, 3Hp 3 phase lathes, a B&S no 2 vertical about 4 years older than yours which is 5HP, and looking to get a 3 phase 6x18 grinder to replace my 120 6x12). I know a 15hp would handle all that no problem but is another $500 iirc but would be a little overkill with pretty much my space being at capacity
Fettle is a northern English word which can be used as both a verb and a noun. As a verb, it means to fix something. E.g.: “My car needs fettling before I can drive it “.This usage has a very broad scope. As a noun, it describes the condition of someone or something. For example: “Now then lad, what fettle?” = Hello, how are you? Thanks for your videos. They are very very informative.
Thanks very much. And can I just say that I suspected that it was an English word? LOL I kid you not, I even almost made a comment about how I thought that it sounded like it came from England. 😂 It just has that ring to it. Thanks for watching btw!
Nice job! Knowing your speeds and feeds in the future would be interesting. Thanks.
Thanks very much! For the face mill and fly cutter I was right around 175rpm with a 4.5ipm feed rate. The end mill was ~800rpm 5.5ipm thanks for watching!
Most my machines (and my pool swimming pump) are three phase, all VFD because they are dirt cheap today and you have smooth start/stop. The only difficulty is the ground leak that comes with it, as 30mA RCD are mandatory here.
What is ironic is that my house was three phase power once, but I won't go back to it as I do not want to deal with the pain of three phase balancing.
Wow, your house was 3 phase power? I've never heard of that before. Are you in the states? Or Europe? I think some countries in Europe might have 3 phase residential? Thanks for watching btw.
@@hersch_tool pretty much common in France 40 years ago, little less today but still possible. For a house it's not ideal, as you need to balance well and/or have a bigger contract (max power).
@@martinchabot_FR I've heard people talk about "balancing" 3 phase before I think, but have to admit that I'm not sure what that actually means lol. I know very little about electricity/power, just enough to cobble my machines together.
@@hersch_tool most appliance are 240v, so you hook them between phases and need to make sure you don't draw too much as power is shared between the three phase. Contract is per kVA (usually between 6 and 12), so for the same price you have 3 phase with 3 less amps than with a single phase contract.
Easy for lamps, lot less for oven and induction plates.
@@martinchabot_FR Yeah, sounds like a hassle. I've wondered why we use single phase almost exclusively in the US, save for industrial equipment. I imagine that's part of the reason, single phase is very much "plug and play".
As always, great job and showing up every step and just how you did it. I will more than alikly never do that, but U might need to use the way that you did it in a different project, again thank you
Thanks very much. And yeah I'm always learning something new, definitely learned a lot on this one as well, a lot of new experiences and unfamiliar techniques. But that's what it's all about right? Learning a little bit more and getting a little better every day. Thanks for watching!
It is "good practice" to clamp directly over the block/s that the workpiece is sitting on. Clamping anywhere else may lead to "springing" or "bowing" of the surface, then when you release the clamps after machining, the newly machined surface may not be flat.
Thanks, I certainly have a lot to learn. 🙂 I'm sure that I'll have a good bit of extra scraping to do thanks to my clamping practices, but at the same time I've already learned a lot that I didn't know before I started this project, so I'll be armed with that knowledge next time. Thanks again, and thank you for watching!
I didnt know you could buy the raw castings, Ive never seen it in europe. But youre right those things are incredibly expensive. I have a 1000mm one and it was over a grand
Yep, it's pretty crazy what they go for. This one came from Martin Model I believe, they have a website and sell a few different types of cast kits.
@@hersch_tool Most of those tools are available for reasonable prices in top notch quality from industrial suppliers here in europe. Once you run a business you notice that those tools arent really that expensive. You buy it one time and have it for life. Consumables make you poor, inserts, endmills, towels. But for a hobby its tough to justify a glorified ruler for a grand that you only use once every two years. You can buy whole machines for that 😅
@@Narwaro Lol yep, that's exactly it, right on the nose. It's funny how it's exactly inverse depending on perspective. But that pretty much sums it up right there.
Nice!
Thanks!
Hi, I had the same problem with the 3 phase. I bought a North American phase converter. I was under 1000 dollars. Good luck, great videos.
Hey thanks, I'm really thinking that it's time that I prioritize a better power solution as well. I've heard a lot of good word about North American and American Rotary. Will need to look into it and start coming up with a plan I guess. Thanks very much btw, and thank you for watching.
@@hersch_tool American sponsors Keith Rutger, and THAT GUY's middle name is "eh" or "good enough...". 🤷♂️
Your channel has a lot of ads now.
See if they would show you some love! ❤️
@@jimurrata6785 Wouldn't that be cool
@@hersch_tool Can't hurt to ask.
NICE camera work.
Thank you very much!
I will piggyback on the earlier comment in favor of variable frequency inverter drives. I had a rotary phase converter and ditched it because of the size and noise. VFD inverter electronics allow you soft starts and braking in addition to speed control. I have one on lathe, mill, surface grinder and belt grinder and have never had a problem. All are Asian. I size them a bit larger than nominal for the motor to be controlled.
Yeah I have a VFD on my Bridgeport, it works well for that machine. But the lathe and this machine have other integrated electronics, feed motor, coolant pump, etc. As well as being fully geared machines. So speed control isn't desirable and all of the other electronics need to be pulled out and replaced. That's just not something I'm interested in doing to either of these particular machines so the VFD route doesn't work well for me here. Works great on the BP though since all I had to do wa rewire the drum switch the low voltage control on the VFD. Thanks very much for watching btw!
@@hersch_tool There is a little more complexity in converting a lathe to VF inverter drive given the usual safety interlocks, reversing, etc., but I recommend it over a fixed-speed gear-head setup. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been able to eliminate chatter by tweaking the spindle speed a bit, or run the spindle half the lowest gear speed for tapping or threading. You’d find that the control wiring for coolant pump & work light on a lathe is separate from the spindle stuff so if you spend a little time with the schematic you could make it happen. I always find your videos well-made (content, camera work and audio). Thank you for posting.
@@Dogfather66227 I'd actually considered doing something with a VFD to give my lathe a "2 speed" motor functionality actually. Basically doubling my speed selection by giving myself a low speed setting that would cut each of the gear box settings in half. I could definitely see that being a nice little upgrade. Maybe I'll go ahead and give it a try since I have to do "something" now anyway lol. And thank you very much, I really appreciate that. I work very hard at them and it makes me happy to know that folks are enjoying them. I love this hobby, it's been life changing for me, has had more of an impact than I can go into here. And being able to share a little bit of that with other people is incredibly gratifying for me. I feel so incredibly fortunate, and grateful. Thank you.
Theyre called gates (or whats left of the sprues)
The etymology of Fettling is interesting. You should check it out.
I do actually enjoy that sort of thing. I've always been interested in history and language.
What is a straight edge like this used for?
It's often used as a reference when you want to make something flat, like a machine way for example. You would apply ink to the bottom of the straight edge, and then use that to "print" the work. The flat bottom of the straight edge will transfer ink to work surface and show you what's high or low.
Close to the edge, down by a river...
YES 😂
You've found* like the craziest person on the planet, right here, in your comment section! 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Lol, great minds, as they say 😉
@@hersch_tool Help me out here.....
I lost mine decades ago.
@@hersch_tool I may be nucking futs, but I see my comments about horizontal boring mills get hidden or deleted. 🤷♂️
algorythem bump. :)
😉
Get a big old 3-phase motor and make your own converter 💡
My electrical knowledge is pretty lacking, but it's something I'll certainly look into. Have to learn sometime right?
@@hersch_tool it's not rocket surgery. 😉
The basic knowledge of electrons, you start the motor on single phase and it creates the other two legs you need.
You probably want to size this motor about double whatever the largest piece of equipment you're going to try and run off it...
@@jimurrata6785 *sharpens scalpel*... 😂
@@hersch_tool Why can't I link a video from another channel, when it's germane to your understanding of how to wire a motor to create your own 3 phase converter?
Jonathan W from five years ago...
Maybe it was cheap because of that porosity
Nah, there was no way to know about it until it was machined. And I'm not worried about it, it's still a nice casting and will scrape up nice I'm sure. Thanks very much for watching btw!
You already have half a rotory phase converter. Go get a cheap 3 phase motor. You don't have to spend thousands. I have been running my surface grinder on my original phase O matic for 10 years. The previous 10 years, it ran my mill. I don't have 200 dollars invested in it.
i bet when you go to print that on a surface plate its going to have a bow on the beveled edge....
One of the 2 lumps was likely where the metal was poured into, the other was likely a vent and also probably used to pour molten metal into after the other side was filled.
Yeah that's what I figured they were risers or something. Thanks for watching btw!
@@hersch_tool sand molds are porous for a reason.
It's not a die or investment casting.
Two gates to get enough metal in there so it doesn't freeze between one end and the other.
Aaaaand another comment hits the algorithm! 😕
Lol I'm not complaining😉
@@hersch_tool And I'm not trying to crap up your comments.
It's just frustrating to try and make a helpful, topical post and 'poof'. 😆
I don`t wanna be a bitch, but i was just about to commend the shop prep for the fettling inside - all machines and stuff covered, and then you go and shed all that cancer onto the ways of the mill, on the area the ``carriage`` is traveling down... Shoulda tossed a rag over the rear way section and slapped a few magnets on it to keep it tight... I would also slap a vac pipe just beneath the cutter to suck up most of that crap before it even gets ti develop any dreams or aspirations of causing damage to the ways... Take care of that shit, the outermost ``layers`` of the casting are the worst part of it, with hard scale, some sand or even glassy sand trapped in the scale, it`s just the worst thing next to carbide, cbn and diamond dust... Well, there is also regular grinding grit and hardened chips, but yeah, castings are a disease in a box from a machine`s point of view... (someone insert the star wars ``sand get`s everywhere`` quote here, i`m too lazy) (dies of a broken heart)
Tho, that is a nicely done job from the end result perspective... A nice casting and great setups... Tho, speaking of setups, i would have considered slapping a third clamp in the middle of the casting while in the V-blocks, as the outermost two clamps could have caused some convex deflection of the part as it was tightened, which will likely - if present - show up on the granite or under a fine clock... And consider getting some copper stock sheet or brass or alu and using that as a backer between the table or static vise jaw - depending on the setup - as hard crap like raw castings can easily embed dents into surfaces when clamped hard... Brinelling the front vise jaw isn`t uncommon with castings, as most people use a soft backer on the rear-moving vise jaw to accommodate the roughness, but really, having a ``pliable`` surface that sits flat on the jaw or on the table and complies to the hard casting or other parts can also offer ridiculous grip, as it friction grips the flat surface and allows the rough or hard part to embed into the other end, thus giving that side a geometric grip on a micro scale... Keeps tables and vises precise for longer aswell and reduces the need for flat stoning the surfaces...
Best regards!
Steuss
Lol man if I did all that I'd still be out there setting up and wouldn't even have started machining yet! 😂 The stuff is gross though, lots of cleaning throughout the process and after
Wow, is that all?
1/4 " off the beveled edge? Looks like you used 45* ... sure its not supposed to be 55* or 50* ? Lots of ways / compounds etc ... are not built using 45*
I do believe the casting may have been something other than 45. But it ultimately doesn't really matter as far as I understand. The bevel is just clearance to fit into a dovetail. Like you said, dovetails can be different angles so you just need clearance to get it in there.
Talk to the power company and get 3 phase put in. No sense dickin the dog when you can get solid reliable 3 phase pumped in from the pole
Honestly it doesn't hurt making the call to them at least. However I doubt it's an option for me. I'm in an old residential area.
@@hersch_tool I had 400A of 480 at my last shop.
I sold all my 3-phase equipment because it was going to be 100k to bring it 5 blocks from the nearest pole with three transformers. 🤯
👍😎👍
@@jimurrata6785 Yeah that's what I've heard as a general rule. IF they will even do it, it would be crazy expensive.