“The gear is not coming down”. Air Canada A321 don’t have much fuel to troubleshoot. Real ATC
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- Опубликовано: 1 июн 2024
- THIS VIDEO IS A RECONSTRUCTION OF THE FOLLOWING SITUATION IN FLIGHT:
11-MAR-2023. An Air Canada Airbus A321 (A321), registration C-FGKN, performing flight ACA192 / AC192 from Kelowna International Airport (Canada) to Toronto Pearson International Airport (Canada) being on final approach initiated a go around procedure, reported that they were unable to extend the landing gear. Later the crew reported 30 minutes of fuel remaining and declared PAN-PAN due to gear issue and hydraulics. When the crew extended the gear manually they started the approach. After landing they stopped on the runway. Based on the pilot’s reports they landed with 16 minutes of fuel remaining.
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Timestamps:
00:00 Description of situation
00:17 Initial approach
00:47 Air Canada 192 performed go around procedure
01:22 Air Canada 192 contacted Departure controller
03:03 ACA192 declared PAN-PAN
04:42 ACA192 contacted Arrival controller
05:35 Air Canada 192 contacted Tower
06:04 Landing
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THE VALUE OF THIS VIDEO:
THE MAIN VALUE IS EDUCATION. This reconstruction will be useful for actual or future air traffic controllers and pilots, people who plan to connect life with aviation, who like aviation. With help of this video reconstruction you’ll learn how to use radiotelephony rules, Aviation English language and general English language (for people whose native language is not English) in situation in flight, which was shown. THE MAIN REASON I DO THIS IS TO HELP PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND EVERY EMERGENCY SITUATION, EVERY WORD AND EVERY MOVE OF AIRCRAFT.
SOURCES OF MATERIAL, LICENSES AND PERMISSIONS:
Source of communications - www.liveatc.net/ (I have a permission (Letter) for commercial use of radio communications from LiveATC.net).
Map, aerial pictures (License (ODbL) ©OpenStreetMap -www.openstreetmap.org/copyrig...) Permission for commercial use, royalty-free use.
Radar screen (In new versions of videos) - Made by author.
Text version of communication - Made by Author.
Video editing - Made by author.
HOW I DO VIDEOS:
1) I monitor media, airspace, looking for any non-standard, emergency and interesting situation.
2) I find communications of ATC unit for the period of time I need.
3) I take only phrases between air traffic controller and selected flight.
4) I find a flight path of selected aircraft.
5) I make an animation (early couple of videos don’t have animation) of flight path and aircraft, where the aircraft goes on his route.
6) When I edit video I put phrases of communications to specific points in video (in tandem with animation).
7) Together with my comments (voice and text) I edit and make a reconstruction of emergency, non-standard and interesting situation in flight.
To all the armchair quarterbacks commenting about the fuel.
They made a comment close to their base leg that they had "2.2" (2200kgs) of fuel remaining after the go around and troubleshoot. 30 minute reserve would be about 1.0-1.2 depending on the weight and in a normal configuration (gear not down, etc). So that 2.2 on a normal day would have been about 50 minutes of fuel remaining before zero fuel and 20 minutes before hitting their reserves.
Well done to the crew.
Armchair anythings can get tiresome, especially when it comes to highly regulated and technical issues (like aviation).
Of course anyone should feel free to post questions and opinions, but they should keep in mind they don't know what they're talking about.
Many people have said the aircraft was "running on fumes" and said it was a mistake for ATC to depart an aircraft on the same runway. 🙄
The misinformation and uninformed opinions, no matter how well-intentioned, get tiresome.
✌️
Well, im one of those quarterbacks. But my math doesn't check out. Even tho what you said is technically correct, but that 1.2 "reserve" is not actually what they are allowed to use on "a normal day", that is the reserve required by the regulations and they're required to have that at the gate at the destination, so really after the go-around they had just 1000kg of fuel that they are leglly allowed to use to stay within the regulations, that is ~20 minutes. Basically they are in "min fuel" territory, where they can still fly the approach, but cannot accept any delays.
So, i don't understand how they ended up in min fuel situation with no option to divert or accept any holds or delays, when in reality they should've had 1.2 reserve + ~2 for 40-50 min of hold + ~2 for alternative + 0.5 for taxi, which is ~ 5700kg. I specifically looked up their flight track, they didn't have any delays or go-arounds other than what we see on the video.
Better than the United DC-8 coming into Portland decades ago. Crew was preoccupied with a landing gear problem and lost track of fuel. Crashed a few miles short of the runway threshold with fatalities.
I saw that episode on Mayday a while ago-very interesting episode.
this is not "better" this is just as mediocre. only difference is this is 2023 A.D. and that crash was like 35 years ago. AC is not a safe airline their pilots have been making lots of serious errors over the past 10 years.
@@brianlacroix822 Landing is better, as I see it, than a fatal crash.
@@brianlacroix822 you’re an id***……AC IS ONE OF SAFEST AIRLINES IN THE WORLD….
Hehe. I recognize the voice of the FO on that flight. Worked with him at a past company. Well done J!
Air Canada ❤ is the best!
Kudos to the pilot and everyone involved, they eventually had the gear down and lock for a safety landing
Sixteen minutes total of fuel? That's a thin cushion.
I just did a math based on their reports. I don't know what exact amount they had.
yes the cushion is thin, but the pilots are badass
2200 kg isn’t much. When the pilot said 1/2 hr remaining… another go around would be real scary.
classic air canada. the ac 321 even has the extra fuel tank in it.
2200kg of fuel is 45 minutes reserve plus more. Enough to go to YHM for sure. Nice uneducated comments though.
Your captions were really on point here. Great graphics as always too. Keep it up.
Thank you for watching 🙂
There are two states of a assistance needed that a pilot can declare: a MayDay, or emergency is one. It means the pilot needs immediate assistance and priority service (when seconds matter).
The second is a pan-pan. This is an Urgent situation, but usually implies there is nothing that can be asked of ATC to help the situation or that while the issue may be time sensitive, it isn’t a matter of seconds or right this instant.
Here in the States...we eschew the archaic Pan Pan Mayday drivel. Declaring an emergency is where its at now. Crisp, clear and easy to understand. Please make a note for future reference.
That why I am confused, is not 30 min field automatic mayday - minimum field?
@@Mutineer9 min fuel and mayday fuel are 2 different calls.
Min fuel means that, with current clearance, you're approaching the planned final reserve. (So if you plan to land with at least 30 minutes remaining, once you get down to maybe 30-40 minutes, you let ATC know that hey my reserve is in jeopardy)
Mayday fuel is called when based on calculations and current clearance, you will land with less than your planned final reserve. (I.e for a 30 minute final reserve, then anything less than 30 minutes left estimated. So don't call that with less than 30 minutes, call it when you figure out that based on how things are going, you'll end with less than 30 minutes.
The reserve must be protected by the PIC. That means requesting a diversion, monitoring fuel quantity periodically through the flight, communicating with ATC, etc.
@@sketchyAnalogies I’d like to point out as a controller that the request of emergency vehicles and ATC asking fuel and souls on board constitutes an emergency. While I’m an American controller, I’m sure it’s the same procedures.
"Surry, the gear's not working, eh?"
Question from an armchair pilot: Is it wise to have an aircraft takeoff immediately before an emergency aircraft which is low on fuel is due to land on the same runway? What if the Embraer had blown a couple of tyres?
There are other runways.
@@gavinsingh4450 Which should have been used for the Embraer.
@@sylviaelse5086 They're not going to stop ops. or turn stuff around unless it's a dire emergency!
@@gavinsingh4450 Having so little fuel is a dire emergency. If the Airbus had had to go around again, it may not have made it back to the airport.
@@sylviaelse5086 If that was the case then they would have been emergency fuel and most likely would have declared an emergency ... oh I'm sorry a Mayday Mayday Mayday.
16 mins? That’s surely a fuel emergency either before they lined up for final or not long after. If they left the gear hanging a little down (as they seem to describe it’s not fully down) I can get that’ll create drag if they didn’t/couldn’t retract it but that’s still close. Min fuel is there for a reason, one of them being in case you have an issue and have time to troubleshoot or divert.
I was thinking the same thing. That's an extremely small margin of fuel for if they had to do another go-around for some reason. If they had declared Mayday Fuel, I'm guessing Tower probably wouldn't have sent that Embraer out in front of them on the same runway.
They had way more than 16 minutes
@@sfbishop Yeah... I'm curious exactly what the situation was now. Because 14 minutes before they landed, they specifically said they had about half an hour *total* fuel, but then they reported 2,200 kg of fuel shortly before turning base. Maybe the 2,200 kg was including unusable fuel (which I guess still matters to ARFF, even though it doesn't exactly help for flying?) My understanding is that that's more like 45 minutes of fuel for a 321, but that might not be true when flying low and dirty. Would like to hear an A321 pilot chime in on this if there's one around.
as second landing atytempt prior to urgent issue it falls well within the necessary envelope
Airbus and their consistent landing gear issues. Per design their gear is supposed to fail, if/when it does, in the down position. Was on a A320 a few years ago with a similar landing gear issue. Wouldn’t retract after take off. Made for a real quiet flight on the emergency return landing.
Much better to fail down than up. But lots of issues with both Airbus and Boeing post pandemic and storage of aircraft, even this far along after opening back up to the world.
No hazmat, Souls on board 194, and we have about 1.5 hours of maple syrup remaining.
"If you need mass, that's about 4,000 kilograms."
"Copy 4,000 kilos syrup. Will have fire trucks and syrup tankers in position by the runway."
Could you maybe look into BCS1491. Had to return to Schiphol tonight
Thank you. I saw that. Will check that.
That must have been about the minimum reserve fuel on board for that flight.
Below minimum. 30 minutes reserve is minimum fuel. These guys were on fumes.
@@bigman55434 they were on 30 min reserve but used 15min on the go around and run the checklist again to try and resolve issue!
@@idunnoanymore2870 They have to run through the checklists, which tell them exactly how to proceed. That's procedure, and you follow it 100% of the time, unless the plane gives you no option but to not follow the checklists (i.e. it runs out of fuel mid air). They knew what they had to work with, and were within gliding distance of a runway. Either way, a lot closer call than they would have preferred.
Wonder why he didn’t state that he was Pan, Pan when checking in with arrival and tower?
No I cant even comprehend how after a go around and a left turn for about 3 minutes they are on final reserves. This makes no sense. final reserves should be holding fuel for half an hour over your diversion airfield. Air Canada need to look at their fuel policy if this really is the case.
I understand that all passengers have to remain seated with seatbelts fastened during take-off and landing. What is the explanation from safety side why this plane can't land with this passenger on the toilet? As he is already in the toilet I can think of him being at risk as object that could be tossed around in the cabin in case of issues. But in this case he is already in the toilet and therefore not at risk anymore. It's the passenger getting dirty pants and the toilet that would get dirty only. Is there another risk because of this requiring the entire plane to go-around?
How could he have that low of fuel to begin with. Suppose this had been a go around for bad weather. If all he had left was a little circuit around Toronto before being down to sixteen minutes on landing, how the heck would he have made an alternate airport ??!!
I wonder if it’s because that circuit was at 4,000ft.
Oh goodness
Well said. One of your less noxious posts.
Poor. Down to half an hour of fuel, it's a MAYDAY.
My question is : what the hell would have happened if the rolling departure before them would had to abort TO .. not pretty good call to me
The video was 6:48, he should have still had at least his minimum fuel still on board after landing.
Troubled that they flew with less than minimum reserve. Hopefully the right people will be asking questions.
Minimum reserve is a planned number. If there were vectors or different altitudes or speeds that were given along the way, it would be easy to burn through 15 minutes of fuel before getting to the destination
Two questions: What is the difference between a Pan-Pan and declaring an emergency? Second, how does the flight crew manually extend and lock the landing gear?
Pan pan means there's an issue, but the plane is still flyable, and can most likely land safely. Mayday is a full on emergency, where typically you believe safe flight is most likely not possible.
"Declaring an emergency" could be either Pan-Pan or Mayday, but requires the ATC know the full story. Using the keywords up front tells ATC the basic severity without going through the whole explanation (Aviate, Navigate, Communicate). If there should happen to be a second emergency in the airspace, making the distinction lets controllers prioritize between the two. Both will get anything ATC can provide, but if push comes to shove, Mayday outranks PanPan.
Crew can extend the gear with the help of gravity. this system is mostly found under the floor in the cockpit i believe. basically the gear just 'falls' down and locks itself without the help of hydraulics. Ofcourse it's only for when hydraulics are not available and i don't know if every jet has this function.
In most aircraft you can extend the gear with a mechanical backup that uses Gravity to extend and lock the gears. For the A320 family, in this case the A321, there is a handle on the pedestal that you rotate to manually drop the gear. In Boeing aircraft there is a trap door on the floor, typically behind the FO seat, that you open and grab a series of handles in there. I don't remember if you pump it or just pull it, but that'll drop the gear.
@@Frost212 I don't like that description. It suggests that Mayday is short for "we're going to die". This discourages pilots from using Mayday in the proper situation, which is when immediate assistance is needed.
What is it with pilots being so stubborn about declaring an emergency ?
This pilot was just seconds away from a mandatory fuel emergency A N D was dealing with a sketchy landing gear, but still refused to declare and emergency.
I mean for christ's sake he requested that EMERGENCY equipment be scrambled, but god forbid he formally declare an emergency.
The way they act, You'd think that they have to pay for the services out of their paychecks or something.
The FAA says: Distress and Urgency Communications
A pilot who encounters a distress or urgency condition can obtain assistance simply by contacting the air traffic facility or other agency in whose area of responsibility the aircraft is operating, stating the nature of the difficulty, pilot's intentions and assistance desired. Distress and urgency communications procedures are prescribed by the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO), however, and have decided advantages over the informal procedure described above.
Distress and urgency communications procedures discussed in the following paragraphs relate to the use of air ground voice communications.
The initial communication, and if considered necessary, any subsequent transmissions by an aircraft in distress should begin with the signal MAYDAY, preferably repeated three times. The signal PAN-PAN should be used in the same manner for an urgency condition.
Distress communications have absolute priority over all other communications, and the word MAYDAY commands radio silence on the frequency in use. Urgency communications have priority over all other communications except distress, and the word PAN-PAN warns other stations not to interfere with urgency transmissions.
What is the net result my dude? No difference whatsoever. Simply not an issue. Not to worry.
This is how Canadian companies operate. Shady and Dodgy practices.
Did it matter? No.
Just curious, Why is it not a mandatory mayday fuel?
It should be. It should be MAYDAY fuel when they got to 30 minutes.
@@cjmillsnun no
Also curious about this.
Aren’t they supposed to have lots of reserve fuel!?
30 or 45 mins worth (not sure of Canadian rules) but that's with gear up in clean configuration
In this situation, the crew are fairly busy going through checklists...Why do ATC not shut the f**k up and let the crew get on with what they HAVE to do
Because it simply is not an issue Nigel.
@Nigel Watkins, many of these ATC videos have longer silence/no communication parts clipped out. The controller probably didn't speak as often as it appears in this vid, & also says "when able" or similar to that. While pilots are working out what they have to, ATC & Ground need to know what is needed to know what needs to be deployed & that takes time too
Pilot doesn’t sound Canadian….
So much missing or unintelligible.
2200kg is like 45 minutes total on A320…. Less once u get the gear down of course
You're not supposed to land with less than 30 minutes of fuel left. 45 minutes total flight time left is a serious situation.
@@klausbellroth5451 affirm!! especially once u committed to lower the landing gear (that u cant retract from that point)
Appears to have been unwise to head away such a distance to trouble shoot on such low fuel levels.
Why would he stop on the runway and disrupt airport operations?
Gear wasn't working correctly. They weren't able to fully troubleshoot the problem due to the fuel issue and can't see the condition of the gear. They wanted someone to inspect the gear to make sure everything looked okay before trying to taxi. (I'm not a pilot or anything, I've just watched a lot of these videos.)
After a gravity gear extension you should definitely have someone look at it. If there are also hydraulic problems, you might be leaking something. Better to sit on the rwy for a bit then make taxiways unusable.
I’m not sure id ever get on an Air Canada flight. They have a worse maintenance record than Frontier!
Last Air Canada serious accident ?
knowledge is important you have little
@@alpearson9158 that comment would mean more , if you knew how to form a sentence …
Air Canada lost my luggage about 40% of my flights.
And you think this might be related?
Air Canada's flight attendants and airport staff have frustrated and aggravated me on 80% of my flights I still have to take on them.
I think Lufthansa might rival that
One of Biden's administrators has been wearing your pants.
That's hard to believe. I've flown Air Canada more times than I can remember and they've never lost my luggage.
i flew that tail last year, CYUL-CYYZ
Lol relax don’t panic