File Basics: How to select and use files for metalworking
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- Опубликовано: 1 окт 2024
- A file is one of the most useful tools you can have in a workshop, but they're rarely fully understood and appreciated in our modern mechanized age.
Files have been around for over three thousand years, and before machine tools became available they were one of the primary means of making precision objects!
In this video I show the basic types of files, the differences between them, and how to use them.
Here is a nice set of files to get started with: amzn.to/1xAbPvI
Make sure to get a file card for cleaning your files: amzn.to/1sXoVnv
I also highly recommend a sturdy vise when using files: amzn.to/1wiFcEp
-Aaron
2020 and I'm here consulting your videos to start bladesmithing. Thank you for sharing your knowledge, know that you've helped a lot of people achieve meaningful things in their lives!
Awesome mate! Really glad to be able to help!
Cool same
I learned a couple things here at the ripe old age of 67. Thank you. Nice job. Good presentation.
Thanks Larry! Great to hear!
Life is all about learning.............
Mr X I watched it again. This guy is a good teacher. No glam ...gets to the point...NO PUN INTENDED...Nice to see it again and review. I am 71 now.
@@GoughCustom 4 years later and I, too, learned stuff I should already have known, also 67. Cheers, mate!
Wow very impressive video. I was able to watch the whole thing with my ADD, very informative.
Re: using a paintbrush to clean the file, if you trim the bristles very short, it stiffens them considerably. Naturally, the brush is useless for anything else after that, so you'd want to do this with a brush that would be discarded or a cheap one, but it's surprising how frequently you'll find uses for it. I find myself reaching for mine often.
Cymerian Designs That's a good suggestion!
I bought a nail brush for this purpose, it has several rows of short bristles.
Paintbrush?? Brass brush
Nice vídeo man! Thanks for share
No worries mate!
The only reason to use a bench or belt grinder over a file is really that it's quicker. I try to show hand-tools in my videos so that other people will want to have a go at the stuff I'm showing, if I only showed power tools then everyone would assume they need big, fancy, expensive power tools to do the work...
I use power tools for my personal stuff as well, but for small things it's often easier/faster just to grab a file or a hacksaw.
Good question!
Hey Aaron loving the vids mate. During my apprenticeship(fitter and turner) I got stuck in the deburring section for 3 months, hated it!
Another method to free up any stubborn pits is to make a scraper that conforms exactly to the profile of the teeth of the file, aluminium and brass work the best. Simply take some stock about 3/4 of an inch wide and rub in the same direction as the teeth it will form itself to the shape of the peaks and valleys, works a treat at cleaning out your file heaps better than the file card.
Thanks for watching mate! Good tip about the brass/aluminum file cleaner! I occasionally use round bar offcuts for exactly the purpose you describe if there are stubborn chips in there...
I would prefer to keep talking in the comments, that way other people can benefit from your questions!
For people just getting started in anything knife related I generally recommend O1, purely because you can make a decent knife out of it and it's easy to get. Other steels may give better results with simple equipment but they're not easy to find.
Yes, I used a double-cut bastard file when filing the bevels on the jig.
I think you left out the ultimate file technique. Patience. It ain't a power tool. You need to let the tool do its work. More, better placed passes is better than harder, roughly positioned passes. Oh I don't have that much time you say? Doing it right once saves more time than screwing it up and having to rework it.
+gus bisbal Yep, that's a very good point!
Yrp work smart not hard and careless
Thanks mate! Glad you found them useful! The inch to metric stuff is annoying at first, but you get used to it!
If you want other fancy steels then your options are mainly online stores, here's a list of the ones I use and recommend:
Jantz Supply: jantzsupply . com
New Jersey Steel Baron: newjerseysteelbaron . com
Canadian knifemaker supply: knifemaker . ca
Hope that helps mate!
I don't think there are any sets that cover everything, and most sets won't be very good quality anyway to be honest. Just buy the files you need from a from a brand like nicholson or grobet and you should be fine.
Make sure you spend a little extra and get good quality handles!
Nice! People are often amazed that you can make beautiful refined things with only hand-tools!
I assume you mean the blue ones... They came from Reid Supply, they're Grobet brand. They're available separately and they're not expensive. I'm a big fan of them, they hold the tang of the file very firmly and they're quite comfortable!
Glad you've liked the videos so far!
Sorry mate, you'll have to explain a little more as I'm not sure what an 'AR for 450' is...
I haven't made a knife from a file yet, it's on my todo list though!
Thanks man! Been waitimg for a video like this for a while. I wanna start using hand file, this was very helpful.
No wasted time, thank you so much for the great video
Cheers mate!
For preventing rust I use Vapour Corrosion Inhibitors in my tool-chest, basically little boxes that emit a protective vapour that coats the files. I do this because I prefer or my tools not to be oily all the time.
The other option is just to coat them with a light oil before putting them away WD-40 or Starret M-1 would both likely work just fine!
what file do i get to file down the side of a thick flat bar? i need to file down the side from 2 inch width down to 3 lines before reaching the 2 inch mark? so i think it 13__16th or 7/9 like i side 3 line before reaching the 2 inch mark i wish home depot could gran it down for me or cut a piece off the side i do not have any grinding tools of cutting tools just the wood saw cutting tool i do not have a vice also will have to make some like vice grips of some
A little tip I learned was to use a piece of brass to help remove stuborn clogs in files, the brass is soft enough not to hurt the file. It works really well, hope this helps someone! cheers
+Justin Thoma Hey Justin! Yes that's a good tip! I have used that in the past very successfully!
This Guy is nothing but a pro!Thanks for the tips. Great Stuff.
Thanks Jim! hopefully the video was helpful!
Hello Arron, nice vid. Could you please recommend an inductry shop grade file set that includes everything you just mentioned. Please no generic made in Brazil tools...
Hey mate! I'm glad my editing is ok, that's one of the areas that I'm newest to in all this!
Well it just so happens that if you're in Ontario you have a number of choices. If you want tool steel (O1, A2) then the best place I've found so far is KBC tools. You can order online or go to one of their stores. I order online, they ship the stuff from the US, but there's no customs fees or anything. They ship very quickly too! If I order in the morning I often get the stuff the next day.
Yes! I just finished shooting the video for showing the filing jig yesterday. Once it's edited I will be uploading it, should be up soon.
All of what i need is on your video.. thanks a lot for ur tutorials sir..
You're very welcome!
Hey mate,
I recommend watching the other videos on my channel first. I have videos that will cover 90% or more of what you need to know. If you still have questions after that I'll be happy to help!
For the longest time. I have a sword that has a blunt spot. I thought i sucked at sharpening. Turns out when i took a closer look. It was the sword smith’s fault. One side is deformed and I can’t even sharpen it 😂 i used diamond stones, files, and even Arkansas stones. Took me a while. Just had to look closer at the problem. The small part will always be ugly and deform
Ah gotcha! There are so many different grades of steel it's hard to recognize them all by name.
thanks for the video, I've just made your filing jig a week ago and have been working on one of my knives to make a nice bevel, my only problem is that the file i'm using is a single cut. it leaves bad gauges in the knife no matter how much I clean it and towards the end of making a bevel produces a loud irritating squeek. I've been looking to buy a new one and thinking of getting a double cut bastard for the job. is that what you use for your bevels? if not, what would you recommend, and was wondering what brand of double cut files do you buy? thanks alot :)
Normally single cut is what leaves mirror like finish doublce cuts tends to have very tiny gouges which is okay since the average height of the surface is more important.
Your using the card in the wrong direction, you want those wires to “pick” the chips out, not brush over them. Pull it towards you
How long should your files last you? what are your opinions about how to prevent rust on files? do you prefer specific brands to others? Great video.
I'm making a box from Plexiglass. Going to make box or finger joints to join the box together, but I'm doing it with a table saw, and hand files. Was wondering if you knew of a type of files that were square and about 5mm in width.
Thanks dude. Handy to know. An Aussie in Canada? I checked out your knives...awesome.
Thanks bud! Yeah Aussie living in Canada since '06!
All I could afford is a Brazilian Nicholson, but I know that Brazil makes good steel. Even Brazilian wood chisels can cut off mild steel.
How do you keep your balls from giggling when filing ? It drives me nuts. Also, what is a mill file ? Is that what he's calling a single cut ?
Hi, great video, thanks.
I have a few questions if I may. Firstly, does the direction or the ridge matter? I have a large, coarse flat file but the ridges are curves, not straight lines. Is this a specific type of file?
Also, I assume that a file would remain sharp due to the friction with the metal, but how, if ever, would I sharpen a file which I use for wood?
Finally, for wood work, would a file be better or worse than sander? Or is it just a case of swapping the personal touch of the file for the speed of a sander?
Thanks again, Dave.
The large flat file with the curved ridges sounds either like a wood rasp or a type of file called a 'float' which is designed for working with soft metals like lead. They were commonly used for auto-body work back in the day when lead was used as a body filler.
Files and rasps all go dull with use, as far as I know there's no way to sharpen them.
Ahh well that makes sense. I got them from a relative who was a mechanic in his youth so you are probably right. He did have many other hobbies though including wood and metal work and so I wasn't sure which it would be for.
Thanks for the reply.
Você sabe me dizer qual a dureza e qual aço a nikelsom usa nas suas limas retas de 8 polegadas e de 10 polegadas ?
I want to purchase files for gold jewellery work ...i am from India ... please guide me ser
Aaron, you're a natural born teacher.
Thanks very much mate! Funnily enough I don't think I'm a terribly great teacher in person, I find it much easier in the videos...
Anyway you're great. Thanks again.
amzn.to/1DiLWnP is a link to a single file, but it says "set" above. Could you clarify?
38 years since High School metal shop and a great refresher!
Glad to hear Jimmy!
Yesterday I saw your tip with the chalk and today I tried it. Holy moley, I couldn´t believe the difference! It´s like I have a new file. Thanks a lot! Only tiny little scratches left, wich are a lot easier to fix than before. It´s fantastic you do those videos, helped me in many ways. Greetings from Germany
+Stefan Krüger Hey Stefan! Very glad the video was helpful mate!
+Sangam Swadik Glad to hear mate!
Thanks! Definitely agree with that.
Are there any type of files mounted in a jig where it would help file one edge square with another?
Can a file be used to file towards you? So from top of file to the handle with each pass, or are the teeth made to only use it from tip to handle?
The teeth are only made to cut on the push stroke unfortunately. There are some specialty files that cut on the pull stroke but they're very rare!
Mate, how does one get into doing this stuff correctly? I mean, anyone can knock up a flimsy knife in the back shed but not everyone can make it an art like yourself. I live in an area (south east queensland) where everything is done for you, and there's no real need to make stuff with your hands. I love knives and would love to learn more. Is there any tips on who to go to? Where to go? Here on bribie island theres a woodies club that has older gentlemen who work with wood but not metals, however, could that be a step in the right direction.
Look forward to any feedback you supply and cheers for making great content.
With the internet these days there's not too much need to go anywhere to learn, spend a bunch of time on RUclips and on BladeForums just watching and reading everything you can and you'll go a long way! Even just watching all my videos should give you a very good idea of all the different steps involved!
If you get some basic hand tools (hacksaw, hammer, files, a rasp, sandpaper, etc..) and one or two power tools (most useful one is a small drill press) then you can get started very quickly. Get some O1 tool steel and then make a knife!
If you try to think about the entire 'big picture' all at once you'll stall out and get scared off because it's too much to absorb. If you take it one step at a time and just get cracking you'll make a lot of progress before you even realize it!
Gough Custom Thanks mate, I appreciate your reply.
I've been doing exactly what you said with watching a lot of videos and doing a lot of reading on the subject. I'm using the links you've provided on your "making a knife with basic tools" video to buy what I need.
Again, Thank you so much for these videos and for the reply.
The files you show are no longer made in the U.S. Are they still good quality? I plan on making a knife by following your video using files so I need good ones. I want something to last so I don't waste money replacing them to often. Keep making the videos they are very helpful to a novice like myself.
+SawsAndStuff To be honest I still have these files and have had no need to replace them, so I honestly can say what the new ones might be like. Glad the videos have been helpful!
What would be your recommendation for a first file for general purpose use on metal. In other words, if you could have only one, what would you suggest?
Simple and clear. I enjoyed this lesson very informative.
Thanks Aaron.
Thanks, glad you liked it!
why the heck are you not on the History channel? This channel and the wisdom you share is amazing, (thank you for sharing that with us by the way). It's better than watching the Discovery Channel.
Nice job. Thanks for the vid! Would be good to know what determines quality of files other than price.
Hey Paul! It's a bit of a hard question to answer as I'm sure there are good files that are inexpensive and bad files that are expensive! Ultimately it's a question of steel, hardness and the geometry of the teeth, but these are very hard things to evaluate without actually using the files and seeing how well they cut and how long they last... I would recommend simply buying a good brand that is made in the USA or Europe and has a good reputation... I like Grobet brand files personally!
Is there a reason that you use files and hacksaws instead of bench grinders , belt sanders etc.?
No worries mate! Thanks for watching!
Good information - thanks!
You're welcome Jeff!
hi gough i have a question if the tolerence of a workpiece is 0.02 mm how can you achieve it my thought was use bastard to get the exess material off and then smooth to get as close to the tolerance as possable ? and great video btw
Hallo.
You should take a big file fore the Material more then (I would say )0.8 mm about your desired surface then take a small(er) file like a 250 mm long in Hieb 3 (who do you call the numbering of files?).
If you are close then 0,1mm you change to even finer file und for the really smooth surface you have to use a scraper.
The use of a scraper (there are different forms) is a real art and should be teached from on how now how to use it.
Big files are hard to come bi, because they were not longer produced.
I mine the arm files, called so, because they are in the size of an underarm ore longer;
60-70cm, an about 2-6Kg in weight, ore even heavier.
The worked fast like an angel grinder, but without sparks and that noise.
Gough Custom You sound like you could be Australian like myself. Could you tell me where best I can find second cut flat files to buy please.
Hey mate! I am an Aussie, but currently living in Canada so I'm not sure where best hardware place in Aus is these days... Probably Bunnings still though lol 🤣
For sharpening scissors etc do you use a smooth file and draw filing?
I honestly have never sharpened scissors!
I watched this entire video because I wanted to know how to tell the difference between a file that is used for metal and a file that is used on wood. In this entire video you mentioned absolutely nothing about how do I identify a file used for metal and one used for wood. A little help, Anybody?
The reason being that 'files' for wood are not called 'files' at all! A tool like this used for wood is called a Rasp. Rasps and files look quite different, rasps have sharp individual teeth more like shark skin: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rasp
Where do I get a rough file?
how do you stop wire from getting bent? Meaning do you have special container for the wire brush or is it hanging someone where it's not bumping into other things?
+pgb twoofive The wire is very, very stiff, no need to worry about it getting bent!
All of mine are either from the flea or NOS from ebay
Thanks Lee! Glad you liked it!
After watching a couple dozen RUclips videos on files you're only one of two who understood the file is only to be pressed against the work surface on the cutting stroke.
It's a pretty essential part of using a file, so it's surprising so many others would miss that...
I'm glad it was useful!
I'm glad it was of interest to you!
It takes some time but I always use files to clean up the bevels on the knives I make which are made from old used files
really enjoyed watching that bud, thank you for sharing, take care. lee.
Which file is used for filing sheet metal
Well I'm glad to hear that it provided some extra information! One of my biggest fears doing videos like this is that I'll lose subscribers who are already somewhat experienced.
Thanks for the feedback!
so I am pretty new at this but I was wonder what types of file should be use when beveling a knife
+Matthew Toman Hey Matthew! When beveling a blade I would recommend using a 12" double cut bastard file.
Hello, do you think it would be possible to clean a file using a magnet? to collect all the metal pins
It's worth trying!
Oil-bad, Chalk-good, Video-good. If you don't have a file card a piece of flattened copper pipe or pre 1982 penny work well, but file card is better.
+Steve just Steve good tip!
@@GoughCustom Hey buddy not sure you were aware but a channel named "Rafael San-Segundo" has re-uploaded a few of your file related videos and is claiming them to be his own. Thanks for your vids.
Еще бы по английски понимал - цены бы ролику не было!
Thanks for this video it is very informative..
I have just watched a video on files amd filing from 1942, made by the US government.
ruclips.net/video/C3Glnnby0d0/видео.html
At around 2:46 they talk about the various "cuts". They say there are Course, Medium and Fine cuts with the Bastard cut lying between the Medium and Fine cuts.
Most of the modern video's I have watched say the Bastard cut is the coursest cut.
But I think the old guys have it right on this. The bastard cut being neither Medium or Fine but in between.
I am not sure how this relates to modern made files, but it seems this was the original meaning of Bastard cut.
Please correct me if I am wrong.
I'm honestly not sure! It's true that the meaning of terms tends to change over time! It may also be that we simply don't have use for the coarsest types of files that they used to make! Some older very coarse files were specifically designed for cutting soft metals like lead which is not something that is commonly done any more, perhaps that is a contributing factor...
ey, no problems ;) im a tools salesman and know aloot about them but it's fun and good learning anyway, im glad that they are more people then me that are "nuts" enought to clean and care of their tools instead of use and throw.. :)
You should have your own show. Very nicely done thanks.
sorry mate but i gotta ask, you speak with an Australian accent, but you measure in the imperial scale and your website takes USD$...whats the deal?
Haha, yeah I'm an Aussie living in Canada. Metric is technically the standard here but no-one really uses it... Prices are in USD because most of my customers are from the US. I'll be changing the prices to CAD soon though because my invoicing system can't handle prices in USD!
haha fair enough mate, you had me confused for a second there
Glad you found it helpful!
so i realise your in canadiana. but, here in auzzie, i dont do inches!.. (mm,cm????) haha, anyways, cheers for your good efforts, you may have only a few vids, but for a beginner they sure are helpful!
Cool to run across this file video, then realize it's by Aaron Gough of whom I have an amazing Gough Custom knife! 👍
Hope it was helpful David!
Definitely! I learned I need a half-round fine file. Also, your knife is superb! Sincere Best and Appreciation! Dave
What are the half round, triangle and other shapes used for? You didn't say.
Hey Joe! They could be used for cutting notches of their respective shapes, or for filing inside corners or shapes that a flat file can't get to.
Gough Custom
Makes sense. Thanks.
Excellent info. Thanks!
What metal is used to manufacture files? I've breezed thru questions here and done a google search, but have yet to find an answer.
Usually it's a low carbon steel that is 'carburized' to form a high carbon outer layer that can then be heat-treated!
I am learning how to be a metall technician right now and I have to make really flat and accurate edges on my workpiece , somehow it always gets curved or has a higher side, any ideas how to improve my technique? Im very new to all this stuff so I would be thankfull for tips
Sorry mate, precision work is not really something I've ever tried or been trained in...
A simpler time. 2013 ;-)
What's the ebst way to smooth the edges of a gutter cut with an angle grinder? i usually deburr and straighten the cut with a double cut bastard file and follow it up with a single cut smooth file and round the edge a little bit. But because of corners in my workpiece i make straight pushing movements instead of diagonal movements, am i doing it right?
+FoodOnCrack Sorry mate, but I honestly don't know! Haven't had to do that operation you're describing before.
do files ever go dull or do they just need cleaned
They will eventually go dull, but you will likely get years of use out of them first!
good info. People should also know that the files they get from places like McMaster-Carr are great deal better. This is true even when they are the same brand and type as the ones you can at Home Cheapo or whatever. The industrial supply stores sell better stuff. Walmart saves money by selling thinner and weaker files with the same name as the better ones.
Yep good point! Often the industrial supply places have no-brand stuff that's really good as well. I try to steer people toward knowing their local industrial supply place whenever I can, they're always handy.
Hi, Could you tell me the advantage of flat files compared to half round?
It seems the half round is more versatile being able to do both flat and round surfaces, so why bother with a flat file?
Thanks!
Either one should work in most applications! Flat file is nice if you want cut file an inside corner as it will cut square on the corner.
Need to do a size comparison. How long are the three blue handle ones?
The blue handle ones are about 12" not including the handle
It's worth noting too that the stuff at Canadian tire is definitely not suitable for knifemaking. It's all 'mild steel' which has a very low carbon content. High carbon steels are what we need for making knives! Here's a list of steels that are suitable, starting from the easiest to get:
O1, A2, 440C, 1080, 5160, 1095, 1074, 52100 (those are the basic high carbon and alloy steels, there are a lot of other fancy stainless grades, but stay away from them for now)
If I find a used file at aflea market or rummage sale, how can I tell if it is a metal file?
Pretty much all files are designed for metal. Some 'files' that have really large teeth are called 'rasps' and are actually meant for wood-work. Any files that look like what you see in the video are meant for metal.
Soap Stone works Awesome instead of Chalk or Oil.
Great tip! I usually have some soap stone markers in the shop too so good to know!
Very helpful video! To cut a soft, unremovable, corroded metal spud stuck in a 2"-tub drain, should I use a cut-triangle or cut-round file? Thank you
Can't say I know what to do regarding your situation without seeing the problem myself, hope you get it worked out!
thanks from germany
Thanks mate!
Kindly clarify Which type of file can use for stainless steel material to avoid contamination.
Do You sand the corners of your files or do you leave them like new.
Depends on what work I need to do, for general work around the shop I usually leave them sharp
Excellent explanation, thanks!
Question: if single-cut files leave a smoother surface finish, then why is the large blue-handled 'smooth' file a double-cut file?
I assume it's mainly used for leaving a smooth surface finish, but wouldn't a single-cut file be better for that purpose?
I get nauseated when i see someone push and pull a file, I like how you put the uses in here, because most people watch too much tv and think its ok to push and pull that just dulls your file and ruins your surface. Great video
Cheers mate!