Doubling your RPMs on the mill may not yield results twice as fast. The medial needs to tumble in the drum, and there is going to be an optimal RPM which is dependent upon a bunch of variables like media size, shape and density, the diameter of your mill jar, wether your jar has media "kickers" to assist the tumbling action, how full the jar is while running and the ratio of media to product. You the man, thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience. Keep it up!
I just had to jump in here to say, PLEASE keep going! I’ve watched a ton of people talking black powder for muzzleloaders and you are the only one who does REAL experimental testing where you work through one variable at a time, demonstrate the outcomes and have the three goals all muzzleloader enthusiasts are desiring: velocity, consistency and clean burning. You are leagues ahead of everyone in your black powder crafting! I’m a fan.
@@Everythingblackpowder Just bought my first black powder kit from Skylighter. Can’t wait. Will rewatch your vids when I make the first batch. Will use your earlier dirtier methods first, and then try your improvements on later batches.
K Hester made a very salient point. Ball mills have an optimum efficiency at certain RPM. Too slow and the process takes a lot longer to complete. Too fast and the milling media doesn't have a chance to do it's job properly. Most ball mills for black powder are at their most efficient at 80RPM. My ball mill has ribs internally to lift both the media and the mixture being milled to about 1/3rd of the height of the mill jar where it then "dumps" down onto the bottom of the jar and provides the grinding and incorporation of the mixture into fine black powder. This is called the "cascade" effect. If you mill too quickly it doesn't allow the media to rise properly in the mill jar and come down onto the mixture and you don't get that cascade effect that is so important. You would end up having to extend your milling time just like you would have to if the ball mill was travelling too slowly. I shoot a long range Gibbs rifle and use only my own powder and I get velocities higher than commercial powders available here and I have great accuracy with it. I even use a lesser charge to achieve the required velocities for 500 yard shooting. It is cleaner burning than the Wano powder we have here but it doesn't make much difference as you have to swab the bore before each shot with a Gibbs rifle anyway for long range shooting. I learned a lot of things from an old man who has travelled the world visiting all the commercial black powder mills in the US and Europe. He had a commercial mill set up and was ready to go into production with all the knowledge he gained but ill health and age caught up with him. I found his knowledge helped me to avoid all the traps with making black powder properly. Really enjoy your videos and I always look forward to your next intalments.
Brass rod is expensive. Fill brass cases (free on the range) with lead. I tried casting into them and it wasn't as good as pressing. You'll get the density of lead for the hammering effect and no lead contamination.
YAY! Progress! Ok, mill media. It's important, very important. I'm using a bunch of brass cartridge cases (mostly .45 ACP) filled with wheelweight lead and the mouths peened over. Airsoft BB jar half full of media, almost half a pound of ingredients added, turned at 55 RPM and it's done in 4 hours flat. The cylinders are FAR better than spheres. My Red Alder 75/15/11/2 (rice starch) is MUCH cleaner than Goex or Schuetzen, faster grain for grain, my only problem is I can't get it as dense as Goex even corned hard and ground/sifted to actual 3F. I'm within 90% density. Just cooked a batch of Black Willow charcoal and will be trying later this weekend with the chronograph. My stuff is even clean with spit patches.
Two things from me: 1) Please try plum charcoal to see, but it will be cleaner and hotter (please compare with alder buckthorn); 2) glaze the granules in the end by just putting them in the jar with no media and very slow speed for 24 hours. This will make cleaner burn as well. Optional step, try paulownia charcoal.
We trued this black powder in 38 and 357 .it's weird to use in 357 the sound different.can you test black in 357mag 158 grain with gas check .lube.we really want know the volicity of that laod .really enjoy your show thanks so much your on top as always great job .
We are currently making sulfur free power 30.70.mix questions about it.what the power difference between 75 .15.10.could you explain this really appreciate your show and the fact that you the only one who reply to your followers thank so much we do learn a lot from thanks .
Sulfur free powder does work, but it doesn’t work well in anything that has limited case volume like a cartridge or a cab and ball pistol. Overall, it is much much weaker than standard black powder made with sulfur
It's a month later, but just wanted to say that a ball mill will stop milling at a certain rotational velocity depending on jar size and mass of the milling media. Basically the media is slung aganist the wall of the mill jar and never tumbles with the powder. I can't say if 160 rpm is at or above that speed. Will be interesting to see your results.
Aside from it taking forever to have some shooting fun, can you over mill your powder? Also, when starting these experiments, some years back, aside from low velocity and accuracy issues, did you experience any problems from slow burning powder? It would seem like a ball mill with internal agitator vanes like a clothes dryer, but smaller like speed bumps, would help flip the ingredients and balls. I would think too high an RPM could lead centrifugal force holding the media to the walls.
You're totally correct, and folks do put agitator bumps in their mill bars. Do a search for "elemental maker ball mill" It's a great design, not super cheap, but still affordable.
I've watched most of your videos now and enjoyed all of them. I can make my own round balls (.69 wheel weight) but don't know how many I would use (for a 100 gram batch for example). What are your thoughts?
A good place to start is your media fills up half the jar. There’s a happy spot between the amount of powder and media and it takes some trial and error
Just love your videos and appreciate your passion and hard work and willingness to share with other black powder shooters. I am a relative newbie to black powder living in his tenth decade. I started making my own powder last summer with a rubber jar and lead media using homemade charcoal from mesquite, eastern red cedar, and mimosa. I shoot primarily shotguns and the mimosa powder produced a very fast powder to my old eyes. I mill the charcoal by itself for 6 hours, and then with the other ingredients for 6 hours or a little more. Cannot wait for your next one. Take care and God Speed!
Using the right balls as a medium to grind is critical to getting good materials and subsequently good black powder. Based on my personal experience, the longest and most laborious part is to obtain a good charcoal with a particle size below 80 micrometers. I make my charcoal from perforated stainless steel cans. Inside I put the wood to be transformed into coal by heating it to about 500 °C. The pieces of coal obtained are ground inside a centrifugal steel grinder with over 1500 W of power. The powder obtained is placed in a vibrating sieve equipped with a series of cascading screens. Here the particle size separation of the coal dust takes place. The finer dust collects at the bottom and the coarser one at the top. The powder from 2 mm to about 600 µm is ground in a ball mill with 20 1.25 inch AISI 52100 stainless steel balls (for 10 hours). Powder below 600 µm up to 200 µm is ground with 70 18 mm tungsten carbide balls (for 6 hours). Powder below 200 µm to just below 80 µm is milled with 120 tungsten carbide beads of 13.5 mm (for 10 hours). Then I use 100 10 mm tungsten metal balls to mix ultrafine pure sulfur (about 60 µm) with the coal (below 80 µm) for 6 hours. Only after having obtained a homogeneous mixture of sulfur + coal in the right proportions do I add the potassium nitrate. In the black powder finishing process I use instead 50 15mm brass balls and 100 10mm brass balls (for 10 hours of grinding).
Longest and most laborious? Try a kitchen blender. Makes airfloat out of any charcoal in 30 seconds, just put charcoal sticks in, put the lid on, and push the button.
I use bronze balls from 8 mm to 18 mm..in a 10” brass shell case,with a couple of dozen bronze studs riveted in….this was my great x3 grand father’s notes,works fine… in my original whitworth! cheers from nz.
I made a comment a few months ago about how my rubber rock tumbler with .495 lead balls was the chit. That was on the second batch. I have now made about 10 batches and the whole thing has deteriorated. The media is all deformed, little sharp pieces of lead are in the powder and if you aren't swabbing between shots by the 5th round you need a hammer. I will be performing the same upgrades you have done. I have came back to eat my large serving of crow and thanks for what you do.
Classic presentation. From what I understand about chemistry and chemical reactions. Atoms (or compounds) react when in close proximity. There’s probably millions of carbon atoms (or sulfur) in the particle we think is really small. So, we have are three glumps next to each other. One is KNO3 the other two C and S. The heat (energy) from the burning steel is enough to initiate the reaction which will start where the atoms on the outside of the glumps are in contact. The smaller the glumps are, the better and faster the reaction. Their may also be more of one component than is needed by the reaction, and it will remain unreacted. If the carbon is in too large of chunks, some will not react, less power, and more crap in the barrel. My guess. What we need: small particles (atom size ideally) : well mixed so that what the KNO3 needs isn’t across the room. Problem: A grain of KNO3 is pretty small, but probably has 1000000000000000000 molecules (particles). Grinding it down to 1/1000 of it’s size still leaves 1000000000000000 of it in the glump. Bottom line: For the reaction to be faster and completely use up all components, they need to be available to each other at the atomic level. Eventually, what ever is doing the grinding will appear, to what is being ground, like trying to crush a grain of salt with hard Swiss cheese, because the surface isn’t perfect. Knowing the Swiss, they may have discovered some way to plug the holes, and will go to the grave with that secret. I think you’re on the right trail - just keep grinding on. Great data, which makes perfect sense. O.R.
The commercial mill I saw was about 4' diameter with a 6" trough around it. In 2 places it had removable screens that looked like drilled cast iron. 2 wheels about 6" x 24" rolled around on a shaft. I think this was how they ground the compressed "pucks". But they didn't have much information at the museum. I do know that the components were mixed wet using grain alcohol. This was Southern Civil War era.
One thing I notice with Swiss versus other black powders the granules are very shiny and there’s not nearly as much dust that comes up from the powder when I pour it into a container like schutzen and goex.
Sadly powder milling is an art that was poorly documented. Yet powder mills were very common in the 17th and 18th centuries. In some areas every county had a grist mill and a powder mill. Sometimes on the same creek but in separate and separated buildings. And again amateur archeology gives some insight. Another channel, Green Mountain Metal Detecting came across such an old powder mill. Their first hit was a scattered pile of 2 inch brass balls beside a creek, some barrel bands, a pillow bearing block and a couple stone footings. Some digging on old maps revealed that a powder mill had been on that site. All this confirm that brass balls seem to have been used. We can only guess as to the design, which seems to have been a barrel or tub mounted on an axle next to a stream. How big? What rotational speed? All the other small details…..all lost to time. Why brass or bronze? Obviously non-sparking for one. Harder than lead. More durable than the ceramics of that day. And most importantly able to be cast rather than machined. This was the early industrial revolution and foundry capabilities were well developed. There is a reference book I’m trying to find in my collection that was from the 1840’s that discussed the functional difference between military vs sporting powder in that day. So far it eludes me. I may have given it to a public library in a weak moment. But if you have read at all, your aware of the repeated references and cans labeled “finest sporting powder” or some such. And references to same. As opposed to “military” powders which emphasized quantity over quality. Lastly was “blasting powder” which was the backbone of mining well into the 1880’s. Nitroglycerine appeared briefly in the 1850’s but had its shortcomings, and was soon replaced by dynamite in 1867. Still blasting powder prevailed well into the turn of the century for many uses, despite the presence of dynamite. Our present dilemma with our commercial black powder supply stems from the fact that modern military weapons still utilize about 95% of all the black powder produced. Until recently. The military has eliminated black powder from its roll as initiator in most charges and light pressure applications, thus eliminating the profit base for black powder production. I’m sure you will agree that making the stuff is a labor of love. Not economics. If I can find that old book I’ll cite it. Fox out.
Instant update! I went to the attic. First box I opened had one book. One of a set “encyclopedia of greater Philadelphia” essays. In that book is an essay by Kim Burdick entitled gunpowder industry. This is about the DuPont company and has pictures of old powder mills among the text. I found it enticing as they reference a “Powder B” and another formula “Behemoth” dating to the 1880’s that are said to have been “more powerful” than normal powder. What ever that means, exactly. And in the bibliography of that essay is the citation I seek. A book by Wilkinson, Norman B. Explosives in History-the story of Black Powder. Chicago, Rand McNally and Co. 1966. That is the book you seek. As I recall it’s an in-depth look at a DuPont powder production plant somewhere on the eastern seaboard complete with pictures and details of processes. Some where I have/had that book. I’ve overhauled two boxes so far. No luck. I had to come and rest my tired old ass. In so doing I found that Philadelphia encyclopedia on google. You should be able to pull up that essay. No luck on Wilkinson 1966. Surely it’s in the library of Congress system. I’ve just not had time to look. I feel my afternoon nap coming on. Further investigation must wait a bit. Fox out.
from what I can remember the milling action is the powder being crushed between the media as it cascades over itself and not when the media hits the jar at the bottom. so a heavier media will have more kinetic energy as it hits itself. secondly the optimum speed to turn the drum has three factors being the diameter of the drum, weight of the media, and the size of the media. might be worth trying to make a drum that is clear on one side to watch and figure out the best rpm. you want the media to cascade over itself to fast and the media will get pulled up by the drum and be flung to the other side not grinding anything. too slow and the media does not get picked up high enough. don't think that more speed is better it is about finding the right speed.
Very interesting, need to make a new batch pretty soon, will use some brass chunks I have floating around. This is going to run the same amount of time as normal, 24 hours in a HF double tumbler, then 8 hours both drums in one vessel with marbles. Never thought about the lead contaminating the powder,but that is logical. I use willow that has been dried for ever, years standing dead then cut and dried even more.
Brass balls (knock it off you guys) are available at Amazon. I think they would work well in the pvc jar. Could it be that the original rubber jar is degrading and contaminating the powder with more rubber. Those patches were filthy.
I bought some and used in the small rubber tumbler. They suck. Make your own by filling short pieces of copper tubing or brass cartridge cases with melted lead and peend the ends over. Lots of guys using the copper. I used cartridge brass because it's harder and I'm cheap and too lazy to make that many cuts with a tubing cutter. Cylinders are better than spheres and the heavier the better.
Re. throwing a wrench in... if it ALWAYS performs the same, why make a control? Just make the "new stuff" and see what happens. If you want to double super secret verity the results later, then meticulously follow the process and record results. And never forget what Adam Savage from Mythbusters said: “The difference between screwing around and science is writing it down.”
on your stoner! I love your lock speeds! you can always adjust the charge, but a FAST LOCK is KING! you are Oro El Ray! "I'm" a glass green olive jar from Costco kinda guy as of now? fits perfectly little loud milling my second batch of Fig Tree carbon spinning NOW! oh ya I also use my harbor freight ceramic triangles used in my brass cleaning process mixed with my ceramic ball media!! Glass jars. FYI "I tried" brass AND copper media a total BUST! dirty as Yhit when fired, Slower than Gma on a Cold Morning! could be me or me operator error.
Thought on burning cleanliness.... Yes the wood is a factor, but could it be that our relatively uncontrolled processes are causing a loss of KNO3 during manufacture?. Might be worth adding a tad over the usual 75% to allow for that and see how it turns out....
Thanks for the video. I appreciate the videos on how you are trying to match the Swiss powder. But to know if you did, I believe you need to change your testing methods. You need to make sure you are getting complete powder burn and not sending part of the powder out the end of the barrel. I am sure you do not have complete powder burn on your powder or on the Swiss. You may have it on the Goex. Because you do not have complete powder burn, you also have to match the granulation of the powder exactly (which is extremely hard) to compare the Chemical Energy in the powder. If you want to see an example of what I am talking about raise your powder charge by 10 grains, pick any of the powders you are testing, just make sure it is the same powder. Calculate the Energy, and divide by the number of grains. The higher the grains, the less energy per grain will be obtained. The time in the barrel is not enough for full powder burn. From another test I saw, I believe Swiss has about 30% higher chemical energy than Goex. I can explain more if you would like, but would like to do it somewhere else than in a post since it will be quite lengthy
hi Jake , i was inspired by your videos to make my own black Power and It works grate. i wanted to suggest to you to mix two different tipes of charcoal made from two tipes of wood , i have noticed that It incrises the power of the powder. i think you are great
@@Everythingblackpowder I can see that the lighter weight of marbles would take longer to mill, but at least it would give a cleaner milling, there were once available much larger diameter marbles, not sure they would be available now, but they probably weigh twice that of a standard size. Chris B.
Love your work with bp. I was a pyrotechnician for quite a few years but my passion was black powder manufacture to feed my shooting habit. I share your journey along with many others over many centuries. Getting velocites in the 1700s is about as good as most of us mortals get. It is my belief that the only way to get better performance is by controlling the temperature of your charcoal production. Keep up the myth busting.
find a way to ceramic coat your lead balls and youll be good to go. or find a way to fill a stainless steel ball with lead. stainless would be even cleaner. either way find a way to combine leads heft with a cleaner finishing surface. maybe tungsten instead? its heavy and clean
I would like to see you date your batches and let the powder age and see if it gets better with time .. one year at a time ....Thanks for your videos...
Dear sir my propellent is also very dirty but it is very fast. I dont glaze my powder or use lead so that is not the problem. I also do not coat my powder or dust it because i have proven to myself that a little dust speeds ignition some and at least does not hurt anything but it is dirty
I like your show .today I made a small batch of swiss .we're going to try it in 45long colt and 30 -30 .we have it works as well .we grain it were getting two different sizes of grain real fine and courser grain for rifle .how ever the finer power gives us more umff .still using 40grain in 45 long colt wow what a difference.thanks great show .
GOEX makes for an inky mess when shot from my smoke poles. I still have a pound can of FFF and a pound can of FFFF of Dupont that I'll save until SHTF. Now you have me very interested to make my own powder. I was happy with 1,300FPS shooting Buffalo Bullets at whitetails which work quite well, but I'll take the extra 300 to 400 FPS any day. First, I have to buy a nice large storage shed to turn into my man cave, because my Sweetie Pie is tired of me turning the house into a hunting camp. She loves to hunt and fish but isn't willing to go as deep into it all as I do.
I have one question: Are you baking the potassium nitrate in the oven before milling? (In order to make it dry). Mine stuff is clumping in the ballmill, and I think it is from the potasium nitrate.
Has anyone ever tried a roller mill? Two brass rollers with a fine adjustment for the gap, so you can run it through several times, each time closing the gap to get a finer product till you reach the fineness you want.
What if you nickel plated the lead balls? I nickel plate all the time using a homemade solution of nickel dissolved in white vinegar, and a car battery charger. This would allow you to use the lead but the nickel should keep it from dirtying the powder.
Interesting video, thanks. I was reading a forum of guys in England making BP for fireworks and found an interesting quote about the amount of water used in pucking. Here is the quote: "I've been pressing some pucks lately to help quantify the performance of black powder made by my own method. With guidance from the Passfire article, I chose to use 8% water to help consolidate. The author (Kyle Kepley) states that the use of more water- up to 10%- actually results in drier pucks. I believe him. With 8% water, three quarters of it is squirted out during hydraulic pressing. A few drops per puck is all it adds up to. Yes, some of the potassium nitrate dissolves in the water. But not much. Making a 76-15-10 mix should address that minor issue. If you only use 2% water, you will not consolidate the puck as readily as with 8%. The whole 2% will remain in the puck. I believe the water, being incompressible, displaces air within the mass. Not enough water means not enough air displaced, which means not as much consolidation at a given pressing force- IMHO." ...end of quote... It would be interesting to compare the densities of your new powder to the old. Seems the best way to increase the density is in the pucking process, so changing the amount of water used might be an interesting variable.
@@jenniferdorman150 I never heard of them, but it was an interesting quote written in 2016 on a UK pyro forum. Looks like Kyle Kepley wrote articles for a publication called Passfire. After a quick search I see that it is a pyrotechnics website. I'm familiar with Skylighter, but not this one, thanks. I'm not really interested in fireworks, but I realize there is a lot of great information on these types of sights. Thanks again.
Someone mentioned casting tin but it’s expensive and it’s light but maybe it’ll work. What about playing or powder coating the lead media? Would it even work for the kinds of forces they encounter?
Interesting, as always! I have been using hard lead alloy 30 caliber projectiles in my "ball mill." Seems to work, but there's a long way to go before I get the results I'm hoping for. Thanks for the video!
did your "failed" reduced performance control powder with lead ball milling and your ceramic media milled experiment both come from the same precursor batch to rule out any anomalies with quality of the ingredients, the chemical reaction or combination of saltpeter and charcoal?
My theory is that because the lead is denser than the ceramic media it is able to more efficiently pulverize the powder also the ceramic media might be pressed against the wall of the drum at higher speeds like the spin cycle of a washing machine. I also could be way off such is the hazard of a theory. Best of luck your videos are always great.
Excellent work Sir - Thank You. You're inspiring me to brew a batch for personal use .. maybe I'll use home charred PINUS RADIATA charcoal ?? - Best Regards from NZ
Dude don't waste your time. I was a pyrotechnician and have made tons of bp with pine. It is very dirty burning and way too slow for shooting. Make your charcoal with willow or alder. You will be much happier with the results. Also from NZ.
Hello mate, do not know if this will reach you (commented here and there) a critic question I've always wondered; everywhere states BP is impact sensitive however I've never seen proof or have it occur intentionally (not to say it cannot) have you ever tried this? Ie hammered BP on steel? (I did to no effect) Cheers.
I wonder if the slight angle you have the ball mill might play a factor? wonder if some of the powder is just settling at the bottom corner of the cainster and not tumbling and milling as much causing a decrease in milling efficiency. I could also be talking out my ass but hey yea never know haha. also i'm really tempted to jump in and make some powder, how big of a risk do you have of blowing you self up and burning your house down?
Great job.... Curious on your thoughts on this. Aluminum media. Aluminum dust is nasty flammable (but won't cause a flash milling). Might up your fps, but don't know about fowling. Interested in what you find with the brass. Just more thought. + Waited all day at work to get home and watch this episode. Loving the "science"!
Didn't you go directly from rubber mill with lead balls to PVC with ceramic? If you haven't tried PVC with lead balls, how can you tell if it's the lead or the rubber making your antique muzzleloader propellant burn dirty?
@@Everythingblackpowder Wonder if there's a heavier type of ceramic, maybe something with a core made of lead, that would pulverize as well as lead balls? Are you using triangular ceramic?
Update. My black willow charcoal is more dense but a lot more dirty than Red Alder charcoal. Per grain weight same energy. Red Alder is very clean, like nearly Swiss clean. Jake, I'd really like to see you try the Red Alder charcoal and some lead-filled .45 cases in your PVC tumbler, I think you'd just about be where you want to be if you can get it dense enough to match commercial powder.
Red Alder is easy to find in Washington state as well as Pacific Willow. I have some of both drying out now to try in the future. The lead filled 45 cases is a good idea. That would cut down on the lead contamination.
@@chaecoco2 Cylinders seem to mill better than spheres. Just be sure and roll crimp the dickens out of the case mouths or they will eventually loosen up and let the "cores" separate. yes, they make a .45 ACP roll crimper, or just fold the mouths inward in a few places with a ball pein hammer.
rheostat I believe is what it's called. I think that would make the motor speed adjustable. Unless you need a VFD. Just throwing this out there. Actually I'm just a plumber that had to do some electrical work too. Love your videos btw
Hey Jake, I just recently discovered your channel and instantly became a fan! I'm so glad there's someone out there doing the kind of R&D around black powder that the community its mostly lacking, I've learned a ton over the last few days of watching your videos. There's one question I have been looking for an concrete answer for and have yet to find that maybe you could help me with. In my home state of California, regulations deem it illegal to hunt with any leaded ammunition. I've been wanting to hunt with a black powder cartridge rifle, but cant find any solid proof online if full copper bullets and black powder have any problems when used together. I've seen from some of your videos that you sometimes use jacketed bullets for your loads, and was wondering what your experience has been with BP fouling and copper. Any insight you could provide would be greatly appreciated. Keep up the good work!
Yes, I’ve used jacketed projectiles with black powder. Generally it works just fine but the trouble is after 5 or 6 rounds the fouling in the barrel is so hard that the accuracy goes to hell. However if you’re only needing to put out one or two rounds it’s not a problem. I should mention that I’ve only tried this with 45 colt, 30-30, 30/06 and 45ACP.
I developed an alloy in conjunction with Rotometals foundry which is intended to solve this very problem. It's called "lead free" alloy and is for making cast bullets, you can purchase ingots from them. My contribution was adding .75% Antimony to reduce brittleness and improve malleability for better accuracy and terminal performance. It is lighter than lead and barely meets the definition of "expanding" per Ca. game laws so I recommend round, flat-nosed bullets with a large meplat as you typically would use in a BPCR. To utilize this alloy you would of course have to cast and lubricate your own bullets. I have tested this alloy in several rifles from .223 to .45 Colt using full-power loads and killed deer and recovered bullets so I know it works.
Fist, Your BP making and testing is the best I have seeen anybody do I like watching your videos Now as for my comment is why don't you try powder coating your grinding media ( lead ).
Ever try stainless steel balls in the mill? I would be very interested in that. Not as dense as lead as the density of lead is 1/3 higher but you won't get any contaminants and the risk of sparking is non-existent. It is almost as dense as brass. I think your ball mill density is what causes the efficiency issues you are seeing. I would be careful with ramping up the speed. Friction creates heat. Speed creates friction. Heat is bad. I greatly respect your videos because your scientific approach is admirable.
Cast yourself some brass barstock from scrap plumbing fittings. You can cast in steel molds, as long as they are cold, to hot and it brazes to the mold. A friend and I cast barstock in various lengths of steel pipe and tubing then press it out with a hydraulic press, just gotta weld a base foot on the pipe with a plug bolt you can take out to press through.
Doubling your RPMs on the mill may not yield results twice as fast. The medial needs to tumble in the drum, and there is going to be an optimal RPM which is dependent upon a bunch of variables like media size, shape and density, the diameter of your mill jar, wether your jar has media "kickers" to assist the tumbling action, how full the jar is while running and the ratio of media to product.
You the man, thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience. Keep it up!
I just had to jump in here to say, PLEASE keep going! I’ve watched a ton of people talking black powder for muzzleloaders and you are the only one who does REAL experimental testing where you work through one variable at a time, demonstrate the outcomes and have the three goals all muzzleloader enthusiasts are desiring: velocity, consistency and clean burning. You are leagues ahead of everyone in your black powder crafting! I’m a fan.
Thank you!
You bet bet we are too its great content and much appreciated thank you.
We also make are powder and have had fantastic results .from rifles to hand guns .
Thanks for doing so much of the black powder R & D leg work. Learned quite a bit from my couch.
Glad to hear it
@@Everythingblackpowder Just bought my first black powder kit from Skylighter. Can’t wait. Will rewatch your vids when I make the first batch. Will use your earlier dirtier methods first, and then try your improvements on later batches.
K Hester made a very salient point. Ball mills have an optimum efficiency at certain RPM. Too slow and the process takes a lot longer to complete. Too fast and the milling media doesn't have a chance to do it's job properly. Most ball mills for black powder are at their most efficient at 80RPM. My ball mill has ribs internally to lift both the media and the mixture being milled to about 1/3rd of the height of the mill jar where it then "dumps" down onto the bottom of the jar and provides the grinding and incorporation of the mixture into fine black powder. This is called the "cascade" effect. If you mill too quickly it doesn't allow the media to rise properly in the mill jar and come down onto the mixture and you don't get that cascade effect that is so important. You would end up having to extend your milling time just like you would have to if the ball mill was travelling too slowly. I shoot a long range Gibbs rifle and use only my own powder and I get velocities higher than commercial powders available here and I have great accuracy with it. I even use a lesser charge to achieve the required velocities for 500 yard shooting. It is cleaner burning than the Wano powder we have here but it doesn't make much difference as you have to swab the bore before each shot with a Gibbs rifle anyway for long range shooting. I learned a lot of things from an old man who has travelled the world visiting all the commercial black powder mills in the US and Europe. He had a commercial mill set up and was ready to go into production with all the knowledge he gained but ill health and age caught up with him. I found his knowledge helped me to avoid all the traps with making black powder properly.
Really enjoy your videos and I always look forward to your next intalments.
Excellent project and testing! Really interesting Jake.
Thanks Mike
Brass rod is expensive. Fill brass cases (free on the range) with lead. I tried casting into them and it wasn't as good as pressing. You'll get the density of lead for the hammering effect and no lead contamination.
Excellent idea, Steve. Thank you!
Love his channel. You're straight up. Good or bad on making black powder 👍🇺🇸💪
YAY! Progress! Ok, mill media. It's important, very important. I'm using a bunch of brass cartridge cases (mostly .45 ACP) filled with wheelweight lead and the mouths peened over. Airsoft BB jar half full of media, almost half a pound of ingredients added, turned at 55 RPM and it's done in 4 hours flat. The cylinders are FAR better than spheres. My Red Alder 75/15/11/2 (rice starch) is MUCH cleaner than Goex or Schuetzen, faster grain for grain, my only problem is I can't get it as dense as Goex even corned hard and ground/sifted to actual 3F. I'm within 90% density. Just cooked a batch of Black Willow charcoal and will be trying later this weekend with the chronograph. My stuff is even clean with spit patches.
Two things from me: 1) Please try plum charcoal to see, but it will be cleaner and hotter (please compare with alder buckthorn); 2) glaze the granules in the end by just putting them in the jar with no media and very slow speed for 24 hours. This will make cleaner burn as well. Optional step, try paulownia charcoal.
I bought swiss for a test, and my plum powder is almost 100 fps faster with the same residue.
I think you are definitely on the right path.
I think so too
Awesome thanks.
A bit more on this 'Tread walker' to ball mill conversion, like how big is it? dia. and all that, plus material that it was made out of.
Love your work
Thank you
We trued this black powder in 38 and 357 .it's weird to use in 357 the sound different.can you test black in 357mag 158 grain with gas check .lube.we really want know the volicity of that laod .really enjoy your show thanks so much your on top as always great job .
We are currently making sulfur free power 30.70.mix questions about it.what the power difference between 75 .15.10.could you explain this really appreciate your show and the fact that you the only one who reply to your followers thank so much we do learn a lot from thanks .
Sulfur free powder does work, but it doesn’t work well in anything that has limited case volume like a cartridge or a cab and ball pistol. Overall, it is much much weaker than standard black powder made with sulfur
Thank you that answers it
Great show love it as always you are on top
I just had a thought. What about using some plated bullets? They don't have any exposed lead. Or copper plated buckshot.
Good idea!
It's a month later, but just wanted to say that a ball mill will stop milling at a certain rotational velocity depending on jar size and mass of the milling media. Basically the media is slung aganist the wall of the mill jar and never tumbles with the powder. I can't say if 160 rpm is at or above that speed. Will be interesting to see your results.
In minnesota at the taconite plants the final stage mills use rods instead of balls for a finer grind, might help?
Aside from it taking forever to have some shooting fun, can you over mill your powder? Also, when starting these experiments, some years back, aside from low velocity and accuracy issues, did you experience any problems from slow burning powder? It would seem like a ball mill with internal agitator vanes like a clothes dryer, but smaller like speed bumps, would help flip the ingredients and balls. I would think too high an RPM could lead centrifugal force holding the media to the walls.
In my experience you can’t mill your powder too much.
You're totally correct, and folks do put agitator bumps in their mill bars. Do a search for "elemental maker ball mill"
It's a great design, not super cheap, but still affordable.
Very good video I really need to try my luck at making bp
I've watched most of your videos now and enjoyed all of them. I can make my own round balls (.69 wheel weight) but don't know how many I would use (for a 100 gram batch for example). What are your thoughts?
A good place to start is your media fills up half the jar. There’s a happy spot between the amount of powder and media and it takes some trial and error
Fantastic! Thanks for your help 👍🏻.
i know this is an old video but what media are you using now?
Solid brass
Thank you!@@Everythingblackpowder
At first I was thinking of suggesting using large steel bearing balls, but that would probably cause a spark.
I might run fast and loose with the rules but even I wouldn’t do that
This video didn’t suck.👍🏻
Just love your videos and appreciate your passion and hard work and willingness to share with other black powder shooters. I am a relative newbie to black powder living in his tenth decade. I started making my own powder last summer with a rubber jar and lead media using homemade charcoal from mesquite, eastern red cedar, and mimosa. I shoot primarily shotguns and the mimosa powder produced a very fast powder to my old eyes. I mill the charcoal by itself for 6 hours, and then with the other ingredients for 6 hours or a little more. Cannot wait for your next one. Take care and God Speed!
Thank you
You're in your tenth decade? Nice! I bet you have some interesting stories
Using the right balls as a medium to grind is critical to getting good materials and subsequently good black powder.
Based on my personal experience, the longest and most laborious part is to obtain a good charcoal with a particle size below 80 micrometers. I make my charcoal from perforated stainless steel cans. Inside I put the wood to be transformed into coal by heating it to about 500 °C.
The pieces of coal obtained are ground inside a centrifugal steel grinder with over 1500 W of power. The powder obtained is placed in a vibrating sieve equipped with a series of cascading screens. Here the particle size separation of the coal dust takes place. The finer dust collects at the bottom and the coarser one at the top. The powder from 2 mm to about 600 µm is ground in a ball mill with 20 1.25 inch AISI 52100 stainless steel balls (for 10 hours). Powder below 600 µm up to 200 µm is ground with 70 18 mm tungsten carbide balls (for 6 hours). Powder below 200 µm to just below 80 µm is milled with 120 tungsten carbide beads of 13.5 mm (for 10 hours). Then I use 100 10 mm tungsten metal balls to mix ultrafine pure sulfur (about 60 µm) with the coal (below 80 µm) for 6 hours. Only after having obtained a homogeneous mixture of sulfur + coal in the right proportions do I add the potassium nitrate. In the black powder finishing process I use instead 50 15mm brass balls and 100 10mm brass balls (for 10 hours of grinding).
Longest and most laborious? Try a kitchen blender. Makes airfloat out of any charcoal in 30 seconds, just put charcoal sticks in, put the lid on, and push the button.
I use bronze balls from 8 mm to 18 mm..in a 10” brass shell case,with a couple of dozen bronze studs riveted in….this was my great x3 grand father’s notes,works fine… in my original whitworth! cheers from nz.
@@benrobertson7855 Excellent choice! 👍
I made a comment a few months ago about how my rubber rock tumbler with .495 lead balls was the chit. That was on the second batch. I have now made about 10 batches and the whole thing has deteriorated. The media is all deformed, little sharp pieces of lead are in the powder and if you aren't swabbing between shots by the 5th round you need a hammer. I will be performing the same upgrades you have done. I have came back to eat my large serving of crow and thanks for what you do.
Classic presentation. From what I understand about chemistry and chemical reactions. Atoms (or compounds) react when in close proximity. There’s probably millions of carbon atoms (or sulfur) in the particle we think is really small. So, we have are three glumps next to each other. One is KNO3 the other two C and S. The heat (energy) from the burning steel is enough to initiate the reaction which will start where the atoms on the outside of the glumps are in contact. The smaller the glumps are, the better and faster the reaction. Their may also be more of one component than is needed by the reaction, and it will remain unreacted. If the carbon is in too large of chunks, some will not react, less power, and more crap in the barrel. My guess. What we need: small particles (atom size ideally) : well mixed so that what the KNO3 needs isn’t across the room. Problem: A grain of KNO3 is pretty small, but probably has 1000000000000000000 molecules (particles). Grinding it down to 1/1000 of it’s size still leaves 1000000000000000 of it in the glump. Bottom line: For the reaction to be faster and completely use up all components, they need to be available to each other at the atomic level. Eventually, what ever is doing the grinding will appear, to what is being ground, like trying to crush a grain of salt with hard Swiss cheese, because the surface isn’t perfect. Knowing the Swiss, they may have discovered some way to plug the holes, and will go to the grave with that secret.
I think you’re on the right trail - just keep grinding on. Great data, which makes perfect sense. O.R.
You are getting closer and closer to making some S-tier powder. Absolutely bitchin.
Thank you
The commercial mill I saw was about 4' diameter with a 6" trough around it. In 2 places it had removable screens that looked like drilled cast iron. 2 wheels about 6" x 24" rolled around on a shaft. I think this was how they ground the compressed "pucks". But they didn't have much information at the museum. I do know that the components were mixed wet using grain alcohol. This was Southern Civil War era.
One thing I notice with Swiss versus other black powders the granules are very shiny and there’s not nearly as much dust that comes up from the powder when I pour it into a container like schutzen and goex.
Sadly powder milling is an art that was poorly documented. Yet powder mills were very common in the 17th and 18th centuries. In some areas every county had a grist mill and a powder mill. Sometimes on the same creek but in separate and separated buildings.
And again amateur archeology gives some insight. Another channel, Green Mountain Metal Detecting came across such an old powder mill. Their first hit was a scattered pile of 2 inch brass balls beside a creek, some barrel bands, a pillow bearing block and a couple stone footings. Some digging on old maps revealed that a powder mill had been on that site. All this confirm that brass balls seem to have been used. We can only guess as to the design, which seems to have been a barrel or tub mounted on an axle next to a stream. How big? What rotational speed? All the other small details…..all lost to time.
Why brass or bronze? Obviously non-sparking for one. Harder than lead. More durable than the ceramics of that day. And most importantly able to be cast rather than machined. This was the early industrial revolution and foundry capabilities were well developed.
There is a reference book I’m trying to find in my collection that was from the 1840’s that discussed the functional difference between military vs sporting powder in that day. So far it eludes me. I may have given it to a public library in a weak moment.
But if you have read at all, your aware of the repeated references and cans labeled “finest sporting powder” or some such. And references to same. As opposed to “military” powders which emphasized quantity over quality. Lastly was “blasting powder” which was the backbone of mining well into the 1880’s. Nitroglycerine appeared briefly in the 1850’s but had its shortcomings, and was soon replaced by dynamite in 1867. Still blasting powder prevailed well into the turn of the century for many uses, despite the presence of dynamite.
Our present dilemma with our commercial black powder supply stems from the fact that modern military weapons still utilize about 95% of all the black powder produced. Until recently. The military has eliminated black powder from its roll as initiator in most charges and light pressure applications, thus eliminating the profit base for black powder production. I’m sure you will agree that making the stuff is a labor of love. Not economics.
If I can find that old book I’ll cite it.
Fox out.
Instant update! I went to the attic. First box I opened had one book. One of a set “encyclopedia of greater Philadelphia” essays. In that book is an essay by Kim Burdick entitled gunpowder industry.
This is about the DuPont company and has pictures of old powder mills among the text. I found it enticing as they reference a “Powder B” and another formula “Behemoth” dating to the 1880’s that are said to have been “more powerful” than normal powder. What ever that means, exactly. And in the bibliography of that essay is the citation I seek.
A book by Wilkinson, Norman B.
Explosives in History-the story of Black Powder. Chicago, Rand McNally and Co. 1966.
That is the book you seek. As I recall it’s an in-depth look at a DuPont powder production plant somewhere on the eastern seaboard complete with pictures and details of processes.
Some where I have/had that book. I’ve overhauled two boxes so far. No luck. I had to come and rest my tired old ass. In so doing I found that Philadelphia encyclopedia on google. You should be able to pull up that essay. No luck on Wilkinson 1966. Surely it’s in the library of Congress system. I’ve just not had time to look.
I feel my afternoon nap coming on. Further investigation must wait a bit.
Fox out.
from what I can remember the milling action is the powder being crushed between the media as it cascades over itself and not when the media hits the jar at the bottom. so a heavier media will have more kinetic energy as it hits itself. secondly the optimum speed to turn the drum has three factors being the diameter of the drum, weight of the media, and the size of the media. might be worth trying to make a drum that is clear on one side to watch and figure out the best rpm. you want the media to cascade over itself to fast and the media will get pulled up by the drum and be flung to the other side not grinding anything. too slow and the media does not get picked up high enough. don't think that more speed is better it is about finding the right speed.
Very interesting, need to make a new batch pretty soon, will use some brass chunks I have floating around. This is going to run the same amount of time as normal, 24 hours in a HF double tumbler, then 8 hours both drums in one vessel with marbles. Never thought about the lead contaminating the powder,but that is logical. I use willow that has been dried for ever, years standing dead then cut and dried even more.
Thanks again for keeping the art and science of " antique muzzleloader propellant " alive and well.....
Happy to help
Brass balls (knock it off you guys) are available at Amazon. I think they would work well in the pvc jar.
Could it be that the original rubber jar is degrading and contaminating the powder with more rubber. Those patches were filthy.
They're crazy expensive though.
I bought some and used in the small rubber tumbler. They suck. Make your own by filling short pieces of copper tubing or brass cartridge cases with melted lead and peend the ends over. Lots of guys using the copper. I used cartridge brass because it's harder and I'm cheap and too lazy to make that many cuts with a tubing cutter. Cylinders are better than spheres and the heavier the better.
@@geargnasher9822
Sounds good.👍
I bet you nailed it, its the rubber worn from the jar that's making the dirty powder, not lead from the media.
This is boggling my mind. 1700 FPS?! I've only read about 1300 (I think) by Davey Crockett using "6 fingers" of powder for tricky shots
Also... steal rather then lead (dirty) or ceramic (not enough mass)?
EDIT: Yea, brass! That's a good idea!
Re. throwing a wrench in... if it ALWAYS performs the same, why make a control? Just make the "new stuff" and see what happens. If you want to double super secret verity the results later, then meticulously follow the process and record results.
And never forget what Adam Savage from Mythbusters said: “The difference between screwing around and science is writing it down.”
on your stoner! I love your lock speeds! you can always adjust the charge, but a FAST LOCK is KING! you are Oro El Ray! "I'm" a glass green olive jar from Costco kinda guy as of now? fits perfectly little loud milling my second batch of Fig Tree carbon spinning NOW! oh ya I also use my harbor freight ceramic triangles used in my brass cleaning process mixed with my ceramic ball media!! Glass jars. FYI "I tried" brass AND copper media a total BUST! dirty as Yhit when fired, Slower than Gma on a Cold Morning! could be me or me operator error.
Very interesting Jake, looking forward to the next series of tests you're doing some great work keep it up
Thank you
Have you tried using a different media size? The smaller the media the greater should be the contact with your AMLP.
Thought on burning cleanliness.... Yes the wood is a factor, but could it be that our relatively uncontrolled processes are causing a loss of KNO3 during manufacture?. Might be worth adding a tad over the usual 75% to allow for that and see how it turns out....
Thanks for the video. I appreciate the videos on how you are trying to match the Swiss powder. But to know if you did, I believe you need to change your testing methods.
You need to make sure you are getting complete powder burn and not sending part of the powder out the end of the barrel. I am sure you do not have complete powder burn on your powder or on the Swiss. You may have it on the Goex. Because you do not have complete powder burn, you also have to match the granulation of the powder exactly (which is extremely hard) to compare the Chemical Energy in the powder.
If you want to see an example of what I am talking about raise your powder charge by 10 grains, pick any of the powders you are testing, just make sure it is the same powder. Calculate the Energy, and divide by the number of grains. The higher the grains, the less energy per grain will be obtained. The time in the barrel is not enough for full powder burn.
From another test I saw, I believe Swiss has about 30% higher chemical energy than Goex.
I can explain more if you would like, but would like to do it somewhere else than in a post since it will be quite lengthy
hi Jake , i was inspired by your videos to make my own black Power and It works grate. i wanted to suggest to you to mix two different tipes of charcoal made from two tipes of wood , i have noticed that It incrises the power of the powder.
i think you are great
Interesting, thank you
What are the two types you used?
Have you tried large glass marbles, not sure they are available now, but they would be non contaminating and electrically neutral. Chris B.
I started off some years ago using marbles but quickly changed to lead because it milled much faster.
@@Everythingblackpowder I can see that the lighter weight of marbles would take longer to mill, but at least it would give a cleaner milling, there were once available much larger diameter marbles, not sure they would be available now, but they probably weigh twice that of a standard size. Chris B.
Love your work with bp. I was a pyrotechnician for quite a few years but my passion was black powder manufacture to feed my shooting habit. I share your journey along with many others over many centuries. Getting velocites in the 1700s is about as good as most of us mortals get. It is my belief that the only way to get better performance is by controlling the temperature of your charcoal production.
Keep up the myth busting.
Thank you
Buy tungsten balls? it's heavier than lead and as hard as ceramic
find a way to ceramic coat your lead balls and youll be good to go. or find a way to fill a stainless steel ball with lead. stainless would be even cleaner. either way find a way to combine leads heft with a cleaner finishing surface. maybe tungsten instead? its heavy and clean
I think tungsten would be ideal but it’s so damn expensive
@@Everythingblackpowder hey you buy once you cry once lol stuff should last a lifetime
I would like to see you date your batches and let the powder age and see if it gets better with time .. one year at a time ....Thanks for your videos...
Even taking 21 hours I don't think it's that bad. Put it on in the morning, forget about it and take off the next morning.
Brass media sounds good. Seems like weight would be your friend. 🇺🇸👌
Dear sir my propellent is also very dirty but it is very fast. I dont glaze my powder or use lead so that is not the problem. I also do not coat my powder or dust it because i have proven to myself that a little dust speeds ignition some and at least does not hurt anything but it is dirty
It would take a set of Brass Balls to try and beat your performance and cleanliness using the ceramic media.
DUDE YOU AWESOME :) Thank you :)
Thank you
There are alloys of stainless which are considered "spark free".
Dam
Wet tumble your powder man...after all it does wonder for brass! Why wouldn't it work for blackpowder?? Think how much cleaner it would be!
Why didn’t I think of that?!?!
I like your show .today I made a small batch of swiss .we're going to try it in 45long colt and 30 -30 .we have it works as well .we grain it were getting two different sizes of grain real fine and courser grain for rifle .how ever the finer power gives us more umff .still using 40grain in 45 long colt wow what a difference.thanks great show .
Glad to hear it. Thank you
Try using some copper coated bullets. Should keep out the lead, while keeping mill times down maybe?
GOEX makes for an inky mess when shot from my smoke poles. I still have a pound can of FFF and a pound can of FFFF of Dupont that I'll save until SHTF. Now you have me very interested to make my own powder. I was happy with 1,300FPS shooting Buffalo Bullets at whitetails which work quite well, but I'll take the extra 300 to 400 FPS any day. First, I have to buy a nice large storage shed to turn into my man cave, because my Sweetie Pie is tired of me turning the house into a hunting camp. She loves to hunt and fish but isn't willing to go as deep into it all as I do.
I have one question: Are you baking the potassium nitrate in the oven before milling? (In order to make it dry). Mine stuff is clumping in the ballmill, and I think it is from the potasium nitrate.
Yes
Always Appreciated OG
Love your videos keep up the good work.
Thank you
Has anyone ever tried a roller mill?
Two brass rollers with a fine adjustment for the gap, so you can run it through several times, each time closing the gap to get a finer product till you reach the fineness you want.
No but it sounds like a great idea.
Just found the channel
Good stuff man. Definitely a fan of what you're doing
Thank you
What if you nickel plated the lead balls? I nickel plate all the time using a homemade solution of nickel dissolved in white vinegar, and a car battery charger. This would allow you to use the lead but the nickel should keep it from dirtying the powder.
Interesting video, thanks. I was reading a forum of guys in England making BP for fireworks and found an interesting quote about the amount of water used in pucking. Here is the quote:
"I've been pressing some pucks lately to help quantify the performance of black powder made by my own method. With guidance from the Passfire article, I chose to use 8% water to help consolidate. The author (Kyle Kepley) states that the use of more water- up to 10%- actually results in drier pucks. I believe him.
With 8% water, three quarters of it is squirted out during hydraulic pressing. A few drops per puck is all it adds up to. Yes, some of the potassium nitrate dissolves in the water. But not much. Making a 76-15-10 mix should address that minor issue.
If you only use 2% water, you will not consolidate the puck as readily as with 8%. The whole 2% will remain in the puck. I believe the water, being incompressible, displaces air within the mass. Not enough water means not enough air displaced, which means not as much consolidation at a given pressing force- IMHO." ...end of quote...
It would be interesting to compare the densities of your new powder to the old. Seems the best way to increase the density is in the pucking process, so changing the amount of water used might be an interesting variable.
kyle reply knows what he's talking about,, and so does Gene Yureck
@@jenniferdorman150 I never heard of them, but it was an interesting quote written in 2016 on a UK pyro forum. Looks like Kyle Kepley wrote articles for a publication called Passfire. After a quick search I see that it is a pyrotechnics website. I'm familiar with Skylighter, but not this one, thanks. I'm not really interested in fireworks, but I realize there is a lot of great information on these types of sights. Thanks again.
Very impressive--well done.
Thank you
Some people use pieces of copper tubing filled with lead with the ends crimped shut.
Hmm. that’s a good idea
I think the commercial stuff is milled with large rollers and not a ball mill. Now how to build one:)
That’s what I’ve heard
Someone mentioned casting tin but it’s expensive and it’s light but maybe it’ll work. What about playing or powder coating the lead media? Would it even work for the kinds of forces they encounter?
It’s worth a try
I've seen some folks cut short lengths of brass tubing, pour molten lead inside and pinch the ends closed. I'll probably give it a try sometime.
Thx for the info!👍👍
Can't wait to see how that brass media works out for you I know you'll let us know
Will do
Very cool video
Since I only had to work half of a day today, your video inspired me to go out and burn some powder this afternoon.
Glad to hear it!
Have you thought about using powder-coated lead balls?
What are you using now to grind your pucks?
A grain grinder
@@Everythingblackpowder Thank you.
Thank you!!!!
Legit update, thx!
Happy to help
> Loved it!! GREAT INFO!!!
Thank you
Interesting, as always! I have been using hard lead alloy 30 caliber projectiles in my "ball mill." Seems to work, but there's a long way to go before I get the results I'm hoping for. Thanks for the video!
did your "failed" reduced performance control powder with lead ball milling and your ceramic media milled experiment both come from the same precursor batch to rule out any anomalies with quality of the ingredients, the chemical reaction or combination of saltpeter and charcoal?
just trying to figure out if you are isolating the milling process as the only variable in the experiment
Yep. That’s why I’m pretty sure it was just the mill time
My theory is that because the lead is denser than the ceramic media it is able to more efficiently pulverize the powder also the ceramic media might be pressed against the wall of the drum at higher speeds like the spin cycle of a washing machine. I also could be way off such is the hazard of a theory. Best of luck your videos are always great.
Excellent work Sir - Thank You.
You're inspiring me to brew a batch for personal use .. maybe I'll use home charred PINUS RADIATA charcoal ?? - Best Regards from NZ
Thank you
Dude don't waste your time. I was a pyrotechnician and have made tons of bp with pine. It is very dirty burning and way too slow for shooting. Make your charcoal with willow or alder. You will be much happier with the results. Also from NZ.
Lol thanks for the shout out
Hello mate, do not know if this will reach you (commented here and there) a critic question I've always wondered; everywhere states BP is impact sensitive however I've never seen proof or have it occur intentionally (not to say it cannot) have you ever tried this? Ie hammered BP on steel? (I did to no effect)
Cheers.
I wonder if the slight angle you have the ball mill might play a factor? wonder if some of the powder is just settling at the bottom corner of the cainster and not tumbling and milling as much causing a decrease in milling efficiency. I could also be talking out my ass but hey yea never know haha.
also i'm really tempted to jump in and make some powder, how big of a risk do you have of blowing you self up and burning your house down?
Great job.... Curious on your thoughts on this. Aluminum media. Aluminum dust is nasty flammable (but won't cause a flash milling). Might up your fps, but don't know about fowling. Interested in what you find with the brass. Just more thought. + Waited all day at work to get home and watch this episode. Loving the "science"!
I think Aluminum will leave pieces and dust in the powder it is to soft
@@johnpottkotter3077 was thinking along those lines also.... different grade aluminum though.
enamel coat your lead ball media?
Good idea
Didn't you go directly from rubber mill with lead balls to PVC with ceramic?
If you haven't tried PVC with lead balls, how can you tell if it's the lead or the rubber making your antique muzzleloader propellant burn dirty?
I made a batch in the pvc jar with lead media. It’s just as dirty as the rubber jar with lead media
@@Everythingblackpowder Wonder if there's a heavier type of ceramic, maybe something with a core made of lead, that would pulverize as well as lead balls?
Are you using triangular ceramic?
@@jqpublic9777 no. Ceramic balls
Last question. I use the same Harbor Freight tumbler. Did you try ceramic in the rubber jar too?
Very interesting videos Jake 👍
Thank you
Put a pinch of Norma R1 in there, Hillbilly!
Let Eddie test fire it.....with a 30' string, behind a tree, of coarse....in a piece of iron pipe.
Update. My black willow charcoal is more dense but a lot more dirty than Red Alder charcoal. Per grain weight same energy. Red Alder is very clean, like nearly Swiss clean. Jake, I'd really like to see you try the Red Alder charcoal and some lead-filled .45 cases in your PVC tumbler, I think you'd just about be where you want to be if you can get it dense enough to match commercial powder.
Red Alder is easy to find in Washington state as well as Pacific Willow. I have some of both drying out now to try in the future. The lead filled 45 cases is a good idea. That would cut down on the lead contamination.
@@chaecoco2 Cylinders seem to mill better than spheres. Just be sure and roll crimp the dickens out of the case mouths or they will eventually loosen up and let the "cores" separate. yes, they make a .45 ACP roll crimper, or just fold the mouths inward in a few places with a ball pein hammer.
your going to be the walter white of black powder your gettin there.
rheostat I believe is what it's called. I think that would make the motor speed adjustable. Unless you need a VFD. Just throwing this out there. Actually I'm just a plumber that had to do some electrical work too. Love your videos btw
Hey Jake, I just recently discovered your channel and instantly became a fan! I'm so glad there's someone out there doing the kind of R&D around black powder that the community its mostly lacking, I've learned a ton over the last few days of watching your videos. There's one question I have been looking for an concrete answer for and have yet to find that maybe you could help me with. In my home state of California, regulations deem it illegal to hunt with any leaded ammunition. I've been wanting to hunt with a black powder cartridge rifle, but cant find any solid proof online if full copper bullets and black powder have any problems when used together. I've seen from some of your videos that you sometimes use jacketed bullets for your loads, and was wondering what your experience has been with BP fouling and copper. Any insight you could provide would be greatly appreciated. Keep up the good work!
Yes, I’ve used jacketed projectiles with black powder. Generally it works just fine but the trouble is after 5 or 6 rounds the fouling in the barrel is so hard that the accuracy goes to hell. However if you’re only needing to put out one or two rounds it’s not a problem. I should mention that I’ve only tried this with 45 colt, 30-30, 30/06 and 45ACP.
I developed an alloy in conjunction with Rotometals foundry which is intended to solve this very problem. It's called "lead free" alloy and is for making cast bullets, you can purchase ingots from them. My contribution was adding .75% Antimony to reduce brittleness and improve malleability for better accuracy and terminal performance. It is lighter than lead and barely meets the definition of "expanding" per Ca. game laws so I recommend round, flat-nosed bullets with a large meplat as you typically would use in a BPCR. To utilize this alloy you would of course have to cast and lubricate your own bullets. I have tested this alloy in several rifles from .223 to .45 Colt using full-power loads and killed deer and recovered bullets so I know it works.
Fist, Your BP making and testing is the best I have seeen anybody do I like watching your videos Now as for my comment is why don't you try powder coating your grinding media ( lead ).
I don’t use lead media anymore. I use brass.
Ever try stainless steel balls in the mill? I would be very interested in that. Not as dense as lead as the density of lead is 1/3 higher but you won't get any contaminants and the risk of sparking is non-existent. It is almost as dense as brass. I think your ball mill density is what causes the efficiency issues you are seeing. I would be careful with ramping up the speed. Friction creates heat. Speed creates friction. Heat is bad. I greatly respect your videos because your scientific approach is admirable.
I use powder coated lead media. Seems to work well. It sticks even to the greatly deformed lead.
Cast yourself some brass barstock from scrap plumbing fittings. You can cast in steel molds, as long as they are cold, to hot and it brazes to the mold. A friend and I cast barstock in various lengths of steel pipe and tubing then press it out with a hydraulic press, just gotta weld a base foot on the pipe with a plug bolt you can take out to press through.