Swiss 1851 Federal Carbine (Part 1)
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- Опубликовано: 28 сен 2024
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Join us in the fascinating history of this ironic percussion rifle that equipped the Swiss sharpshooter companies and the first rifle to be comissioned by the modern Helvetic Confederation. It is perhaps the finest military rifle of its day, but it is often overlooked due to being Swiss, and therefore not having been in any wars.
Part 1 focusses on the history behind it. Part 2 will address the range of ammunition this rifle used.
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As a gun guy with a history degree, I LOVE the content here. It’s like C&Rsenal Shorts.😂. Keep doing this type of content with solid research, and interesting information.
I walked into a rural gun shop here in Wisconsin and found one of these! I was pretty excited to get to hold one! Unfortunately the bore is very pitted and it has some damage on the hammer.
The pistol cap nipple might be a precision rifle thing..... a lot of modern competition shooters swear that small rifle primers are more precise than large rifle primers(308, 6.5CM, ect..). The going theory is that if the primer has too much bang, the bullet starts moving before the powder is burning, leading to poor precision. The trade off is reliability, but that's usually the trade off when chasing precision. Maybe they had similar ideas about using pistol caps for precision rifles.
BP ignition is pretty much instant therefore the "strength" of the primer is irrelevant. Also the flash has to go through a 90deg bend to reach the powder so there is no directly push on the powder or bullet (modern inline muzzleloaders be damned). In truth pistol sized caps are perfectly fine for muzzleloading pistols and rifles but they are small, delicate and fiddly so not suited to the average fumbling bumbling soldier in a state of fight or flight.
@@thebotrchap yeah, I figured the fire channel angle may have been part of the same thought process for them, compared to the 45 or 30 degrees fire channels. If you're shooting competition, fiddley doesn't matter. Look at the bench rest and F class guys that have neck tension so light, that if they chamber a round, they can't unchamber it without a 90% chance of the bullet getting stuck and powder going everywhere. In modern reloading, primer seating depth and bullet seating depth both matter if you're chasing precision. Maybe the competition bois of the day did a bunch of testing and found that pistol caps and a 90 degree fire channel gave the best consistency and precision. I'm not saying I'm right, it's just a hypothesis for why they chose the pistol cap and 90 degree fire channel angle. I agree that even if the choices were made for precision reasons, that doesn't mean it's a good idea for combat. If the logic that they used in making these choices is definitively known, I'd be interested to hear about it.
Hazzar Hazzar hi chap thanks for the black powder content always love it
Your kicking in my re enactment days again 👍👍👍👍👍 bestest from Scotland 👍
Ps are you going to do in-depth cartridge making on the app ?? As youtube sinagans
I'll show in Part 2
Good work Chappie! Well presented and good info.
The 1851 Feldsutzen is my all time favorite percussion rifle. Not only for its beauty, but for a "what if" whetre the Confederacy standardized on this pattern using Mine style bullets
geile Sponsor, leider so scho min Liäblingslade, don't forget de thumbs guys
A Swiss military rifle popular with the shooting public? Never heard of this before. 🙃
Great Video, i own one original and one Volmer Replika, great guns !!
An interesting, and informative video, i love this type of YT content. Cheers
Lovin all the history Chappie
You chaps need to write a book!
Thank ‘ee kindly young Chap.
Very interesting indeed. I look forward to part 2.
I saw your old video with the 1848 prototype. Since that rifle had a half cock notch with a fly, I figured that the 1851 rifle lacks a half cock notch because they didn't want to manufacture the fly, but they also didn't want to be missing the fly
I think you might have it there! Now I need to find out if they did the same on the infantry rifles 🤔
Un fucile bello
Ive never been interested in black powder weapons, but that rifle is beautiful. What's something like that worth?
Black powder are fun AHH I can smell the black powder now 😂😂😂
Depends on your local market. Here in CH they’re not uncommon and value is mostly based on condition so anywhere from 800-1500 beans. This one was a bit less since it has been well used and the stock has had some major repairs.
Always here for the Chap!
Such a good informative video. Thank you for sharing.
Does actual Swiss SIG still make anything besides firearms?
SIG as such doesn’t make firearms anymore. Rail solling stock was made still until relatively recently, I regularly travel to work in SIG carriages, they also make food packaging.
Merci pour tout et pour tout merci.
Vraiment j'adore. Decouvert par hazard mais le hazard wst en general bien fait comme dit le dicton.
Si jamais, la version FR suivra ce weekend.
@@thebotrchap merci beaucoup, english is ok aussi. Je vous suis a tout les deux depuis a peu pres 3 ans. Franchement j'adore.
It would be interesting to arrange a black powder event with a target course shooting from odd interesting angles . A bit like the brutality matches but less emphasis on speed and fast movement. You could have divisions for all the different percussion methods and even a cartridge division. It would be extremely difficult to get together but a fun experience instead of just normal range use .....
It would certainly be interesting, like some kind of skirmish match. Start with a formation sized target at long range, move forward to engage a cavalryman sized target at mid-range a man sized target at short range, and end with a bayonet charge naturally.
@@thebotrchaphow about a collab with British Muzzleloaders?
@@pghgb5572He would certainly have the space
Some nerdery to start off my friday. Good stuff!
Hey Chap, I was wondering if you could speak about the bayonet some more. It strikes me as odd that in the period of socket bayonet they went to plug and a weird one at that. Just looking at it makes me interested in using it just to see what happens
The plug is partly a legacy item from the older rifles. Regular army had regular socket bayos. However it also makes sense due to the requirement for a wide drift adjustable front sight and the fact that the broad ramrod head fits closely under the barrel. The two mean that a socket bayonet slipping over the barrel would be difficult to implement. The side plug is a convenient solution which had been done on the earlier rifles of similar type.
@@thebotrchap How did it not fall out? the older pugs I have seen had wood handles that get wedged in the barrel. This looks like it falls in and out. Is there some place I could see how this was made? BTW thanks for the vid
@@nedhimself There is a spring latch on the end of the plug which snaps over the shooter end of the socket when fully inserted. This bayonet doesnt quite fit all the way into the socket so it doesn't do it. These bayonets were all hand fitted to their rifles, this one isn't but I don't want to start filing away at the plug or the socket.
@@thebotrchap thanks for the info man
Will be a french version of the video 😬 ?
Samedi!
@@thebotrchap Génial, merci beaucoup 👍🏻
@@NicolidasErreur de chargement. Ça sera pour lundi soir 😇
@@thebotrchapje me réjouis 😬
Is it just me or is that wrist incredibly thick?
It has to fit a relatively bulky double set trigger mechanism in there and still be soldier-proof.
3:41 about the rifling, in general, what's the importance of the number grooves?
Same as any other rifle. How many grooves, how many full rotations in a meter or feet per revolution, can all effect accuracy, and as well as the weight and speed of the propelled projectile.
@@nothim7321exactly
Smooth bore is typically round projectile usually there's been different rifling hexagonal or oval firstly then the modern type
Smooth bore the round ball was slightly smaller then the bore, riffled the round ball was slightly bigger to catch the grooves hope this is informative for you
I wonder how a muzzle loading gun with rifling actually manages to work. Because on a regular rifle, the projectile is set with some rings on the later part that adjust and mold themselves into the rifling as they go through. The bullet in that case and the catch rings are made in a smaller caliber than the rifling itself so that the soldier could load it without damaging it? In that case, perhaps when the projectile is fired, the explosion may deform the metal of the projectile somehow so it could then fit the rifling.
That's not how *conventional* modern rifle bullets work. The bullet is simply forced into the rifling, which engraves itself over the whole bearing section. There are typically no "rings" (driving bands) except on some exotic monoliths, or some cast lead bullets. With muzzleloaders, typically there's either a close-fitting patch making the interface with the rifling together with a bit of deformation at the initial part of loading, or there's a pillar or stepped breech system to smoosh the bullet against to make it set up into the rifling, or there's a system where the propellant gases deform the bullet to make it expand into the rifling (minié-type expanding skirts, compression bullets or similar).
@@BlokeontheRange many thanks for the explanation, Bloke. This is a bit of a confusing matter for people not so used with firearms. I'm trying to visualize how all those systems work in my mind here.
@@TheStugbitWe have videos on the pillar breech system (Danish 1848 rifle) and the stepped breech system (French 1837 rifle and 1833 pistol).
@@thebotrchap I was able to find a video here from the Bloke on the French gun and also found the Danish gun being fired in another channel. Thanks for the indication!
@@TheStugbit ruclips.net/video/jPqvSYGF51U/видео.htmlsi=tb4aGcYG8r4PO7Ey