"Thinking" Caller Discovers one of the BIGGEST Live Tells
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- Опубликовано: 20 сен 2024
- Caller in this hand gets sticky to the river when he spots one of the biggest live tell in all of poker.
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Would you just fold off on the turn here if you were the villain? If you did get to this river does the bet pacing want to make you want to call?
I call turn, because with the large sizing on the flop, it feels like either AA/KK, sets, or a big draw. I don't think AA/KK would continue to take that polarized of a sizing on the turn when the biggest hand it's targeting (AQ/KQ) on the flop now beats it. To me, this polarization just feels so bluff-heavy. I'll give them maybe 3 combos of boats (66 probably flats to set mine), or lots of front door diamond draws (AK, AJ, AT, A5, JT, KJ, T9) or even backdoor heart draws (A5, JT, & T9 of hearts seems reasonable). However, when the diamond peels off on the river, I think we have to make a crying fold. You've got be good here about 27.5% of the time, and with the front door draw getting there, unless the villain is an aggro maniac, I just don't see how they're ever bluffing enough here to even close to justify this call. This is even more true if villain is crafty enough to play AA thin for value with this line. If I had to guess before seeing the hand, this feels like 88.
@@iambadatpickingusernames6669 sir you quantified quite well what i was thinking. AA with a diamond possible for sure but i didnt think villain was capable of that play at the time. Also not many value hands take this same line he did that 3 bets as well.
@@TheBlur30 I'm 100% on board with the turn call here, but sell me some more on the river call. It feels to me that the turn bet is weighted to a lot of straight/flush combo draws (mostly diamonds, but some hearts). When the diamond peels off on the river, I just struggle to see what we beat here.
@@iambadatpickingusernames6669 basically he polarized him self to flush combos or air. Lets say he did take that turn sizing with AA KK or Qx i truly believe this particular villain checks back river alot. I agree its a tough spot and was not sure if call was correct or too thin which was why i called in to the show. Thanks for the feedback man! Asking great questions!
@@iambadatpickingusernames6669 88 doesn’t c-bet that big after the flop. It seems you didnt even watch the lesson, just jumped into comment section right away.
alternate title: man is excited about his first ever hero call
That guy used literary every single poker buzzword in 1 call... Bravo 👏
I was waiting for him to throw in MDF at some point, disappointed it didn’t come
At points it just sounded like he was stringing poker terms together without any regular English in between.
Literally*, I would assume? Unless that guy was quoting Shakespeare throughout the call and I missed it?
@@chuckdollarama 😂👌
It did, although most of what he said tracked as reasonable poker theory.
Can you imagine having a 30 minute conversation with this guy? Adderall is clearly in full effect.. 🤣
I'm 3k effective. Villain is 2.5k effective.
I’m glad you found a little bit nicer way to troll slightly annoying callers lol
I missed it how’d he troll him? 😂
@@kobinakasone127 “thinking” in the title. Thumbnail
@@terrysword7739 the caller seemed like he was referring to himself jokingly when he said that
@@wiz771 true, that wasn’t the slightly annoying part. He just seemed over medicated with adderall lol. It was fine
Caller here thanks for all the comments im reading them. Looking back i did talk alot i was excited to be on the show! I can see how it comes across as bragging but i really wanted to see if my play was correct. Bart makes a great point about folding turn makes alot of sense and that the live read implications are interesting as well.
It's so easy to misread people when they speak if you don't know the person. Didnt think you were being braggadocious though, and was a good thought provoking call, thanks for sharing brother 💪
@@bennyblanco675 thanks man
Great read on this guy man. I was thinking what the villain could have and I think AK with 1 diamond or like a middle pair maybe? But even a middle pair would want to get to showdown a high percentage of the time. I agree with the thought that AA or KK wouldn't snap jam like that, and neither a flush. I don't even think AQ with 1 diamond would be snap jamming. Good call dude. He must have had complete air.
@@drewsmagicallegacy thanks! We think alike 👍
Why didn't you make him show his hand?
“That’s exactly right”. “That’s exactly what I thought”. He knew everything. What a “thinker”!
Could not agree with you more.
Bart great job of taking over the pace of the conversation towards the end especially during the river analysis. He was yessing you to death and agreeing like a person who doesn’t understand how to listen and just wants to continue talking. Caller it might be in your best interest to actually listen to advice and learn if you want to improve.
Bart: You really thought this out.
Caller: Yeah I'm a thinker.
I fold on an Ace or a king river
“Maintaining game flow” lol just say you checked
Lol bizarre
😂
Kids watched too many poker vlogs lol
The big reveal is when callers tells us he was the one who bluffed all 3 streets and got owned by OMC with Jacks
Plot twist 🪢
Every time the turn and river change drastically the relative strength of the ranges and my opponents continue with massive aggression without to much thinking I found my self wanting to call lighter and lighter
Yup!! What i was thinking as wel
what u mean call lighter?
@@bdn6449 Because this screams premium pocket holding that hasn't improved past two pair. any time a dynamic board makes three to a flush, one liner straights, or pairs up, villain should always be thinking about his decisions at each street. Every time i notice this behavior live, they have Kings or Aces, the occasional QQ.
@@Optable yeah so this aggression gets you too fold if you don’t have a high pair right? just confused on the “lighter” term
@@bdn6449 Don't think about it that way, but yes folding may be the outcome. Use this info to mine sets, or improve to straights or flushes. If you hit these, you are going to get paid off. If you don't, you are not going to bluff this type off. They have aggressively turned into a calling or raising station because of their holding. Just make sure you are getting the right price to see more streets. A raise isn't going to get them off
Bart lay on his bed for two hours after this call.
Bart was such a good student.
Caller here! Thanks for having me Bart! The live tell certainly played a role. My thinking mostly was that when he jams river he is only representing nut flushes or air. His middling value hands like AA KK Qx will likely check back on the river since i still have alot of flushes as well on my end that check calls.
Couldn't the villain also have 88, T9d, JTd, in addition to the nut flush (especially with the reverse pot odds situation)? Would they even take that turn size with AA/KK/Trips (if they would, I feel like, with the reverse pot odds, they'd just shove river, not check back). Did you ever ask the guy what he was bluffing with? I just can't think of many hands, other than maybe some strong backdoor hearts draws like T9, JT, A5.
@@iambadatpickingusernames6669 i think 88 is a low frequency 3 bet, i personally am not 3 betting with 88 or 66 to a UTG open.
@@iambadatpickingusernames6669 i dont think they take that large of a size on the turn with the hands you mentioned. I also didnt ask him as i think its bad manners to ask a losing player what they had
If he bet and you called on the river he's obligated to show being the aggressor. You put up the money for the information as to what he was playing. You paid to see the hand. I would not have shown my hand until I got what I paid for. You're a thinker... seeing what players are playing and how they played that particular hand, for the "thinker", is some of the most valuable information that you can gain. Sometimes even if you think you're beat and it's cheap to call, you might call a little more just to see what they had and how they played that hand. You're not just paying to win the pot. NEVER give up that valuable information you bought. You can use that information going forward that night, or if you're both regulars... going into the future. Not to mention just to retell the story like you did here. You paid to see his hand, but you didn't make him show you what he had... You lost on that information deal even though you raked in the chips. Think about that heading into the future and play it the smart way.
@@MatthewWagnerNOECA if he was a pro in vegas im making him show all day so i agree. Its a home game so to maintain friendly enviorment if he says he missed or anything like that i will show. That being said i get slowrolled sometimes doing this.
Dude just wants to brag about a hero call lol.
A little but not completely true. I just wanted understand how often to call down or fold in these kinds of scenarios.
Caller: "I'm thinking he is going to 3 bet with 88 or better and all Broadway cards"
Flop comes Qd 8d 6h and villain C-Bets
Caller: He's only representing a Queen when he bets.
Me: WTF?????? You just said he could have 88 or J10 !!!
Cool hand though. Interesting that it was a pure bluff.
i learned everything from this caller
Haha 😄 🤣
This was hard to listen too. Caller talks way to much.
It’s good practice having to listen. You’ll have to deal with these people eventually.
I'm curious why this guy called into the show other than to hear himself talk... he is his own poker know-it-all
think harder
this was so hard to listen to. caller is really trying hard to tell us all how good he is at poker and is misusing terms throughout the whole call and not even listening to any advice you’re giving him because he seems like he knows it all and has all the answers. he seems like a very obviously new player who is excited about poker but man i almost didn’t make it through this one
Why do you ring in and we’ll see how great you are.Judgmental prick
Agreed. This was more of a call to tell the story than to seek advice.
I think he and I would make fast friends I would love to try this home game he seems like a good player ;-)
holy shit, I'm only 2 minutes in, and I dunno how you managed 13 minutes with this guy haha, bravo bart regardless of the rest of the call
I’m a thinker for sure 😂
I’m a thinker 😂😂😂
guys in the comments flaming about the caller
eeeeevery single video.
Chill out, you'll live better.
@Epictetus 35 raging against something
I do think snap jamming that river in a live game is likely indicative of a fish trying to look strong; but on turns I think you're running into Qx way too much to be calling such a large bet size.
I agree with you! Thats why i called in to get peoples opinions
@@TheBlur30 Bro what I hate about Barts responces are all just bet and feel based opinions. He never gets into the odds of someone hitting trips on a three bet pot. You know unlikely it is to get trips. Fuck I have a hard time hitting a pair and im a serial limper. The odds of him hitting RR flush in hearts is like 30 to one. The odds of him having a better pair then you one in nine. The odds of him hitting that queen then hitting trips on the turn is like one in 25. You need to use bet size and MATH to determine your opps holdings. if that guy hit the queen there is only two queens left for him to hit. So he has about 8% chance to do it by the river but to nail it on the turn he only has 4% chance. Now if he doesnt hold a queen and all queens are still out there is an 6% a queen drops and a 12% chance a queen drops by the river. Now these percentages are for heads up. if 19 cards are out IE 8 players 3 flop cards. Then the math changes, but really Barts decision never account for the actual odds of someone actually hitting the hand you are worried about. IM a consistant winner in Poker and im a serial limper. Yes I fold pre and yes I three bet bet and four bet. But I like to get dirty and steal pots and make moves. My range is so wide that opps have to let hands go because I use math to make my decisions on every street.
@@thedude5599 yep i agree. When he jams he is repping so few hands. And the queen pairing reduces possible queen x combos he has lots as well
@@TheBlur30 interesting call. Had you played with this guy before? A guy I regularly played with would take a similar line and quick action along with overly confodent table talk..."ALL IN". I made quite a decent amount of money just calling him down in these spots. I think I'd similarly rule out Qs if he acted really quickly on the Q turn with that sizing. If you flop a pair of Qs being the top pair on board, you could bet large again on turn to protect against the two flush draws, but I don't think you would do that without thinking first to determine sizing. I know you said he jammed quickly on river when the flush came in, which is pretty fishy. If he would occasionally 3-bet bluff pre with Q-8 or Q-6 in late position that would be a hand that such action would allow the player to insta jam river, but then the turn bet sizing doesn't make a lot of sense bc you want calls and you have almost the entire board locked up. No straights or flushes have gotten there and no overs to the Q. How fast did he bet the $700 on turn?
@@macmoves4544 i have! Be bet quickly on turn and river.
This guy was way too proud of his play.
There are a lot of salty commenters in the chat today.
The guy was happy with his play and was excited to show it to us. Why can't it be as simple as that?
because he sounded like an amateur that he is
Alot of commenters rag on the caller for being a know it all but the commenters dont' realize that they are the ones acting like the know it alls all the time
Bart did you call him?
$2500 stacks in a home game. You are talking about $20,000 in cash at the table, maybe more. In Utah, where even home poker games are illegal. This setup is trouble. You need to be extremely cautious about keeping the game secure in a situation like this. Word will get out and someone might start thinking about maybe taking some or all of that money. It happens.
There’s a ton of games like this in Utah
Does he make a lot of cash in Spiderman movies?
Utah is constitutional carry... I'm not saying shit doesn't happen but you're a lot more likely to take some lead trying to act like a thug out here.
Caller bluffed Bart on his card suits
I'd call in but I'm usually too drunk to remember my hands, opponents, actions, or sizing amounts. I usually just drink heavily until I get a hand then act drunk and surprised when I flip over a monster, or the table after I realize I got trapped.
Or call up the next day and complain to his wife that he took advantage of you being drunk. Of course a home game.
i love that thinking is in quotes in the title :)
Interesting how a more polarized bet on turn changes your blocker
Every dude from Utah sounds and talks just like this. They're the smartest people in the world.
Best player to play against
If it doesnt make sense, i just close my eyes, take a deep breath and call.
This caller must text/type his emails without any commas or periods LOL
Does stuff like this ever have you relying on what you’d expect in a PLO game because it would come up for me for sure
Why is everyone comparing about the caller? y'all are fucking weird.. This isn't some call-in dating show where a guy is trying to show an attarctive personality to impress some women or something... He is explaining his full thought process on the hand, and there is nothing wrong with doing so
That’s right, that’s exactly right
question. When a player says you're good but still holds onto the cards. Is it considered a muck? ie.g When somebody says you're good after you call and then you show your cards, can they then decide to show their cards? What would be the ruling in a casino?
They can still table their hand if it’s better after you show. This happened to me last week. Guy says I missed you’re good. I table my hand AK high. He had missed his strategy draw but hit bottom pair on the river. Never again will I table until they either show or put the cards in the muck.
@@brettmasonmedia It's really bad business to force a fish to show when he says "you're good." Aside from this aspect, there's the very rare chance that villain has misread his hand and will muck if you don't ask him to show, while in your example, it's even more rare that villain would just muck his hand outright when requested if he has a touch of showdown value (eg a pair rather than 8 high)
Don't muck your own hand before they muck theirs. If it's an obvious fish, just show. If you wanna see the guy's hand for whatever reason, ask nicely, like hey this is our first hand together I'd just like to see what you have here.
Different casinos have different rules. I once played at a casino where any verbal declaration in turn was binding.
@@JiveDadson But saying "you're good" generally is not considered equal to mucking or saying "I fold". While I try not to demand that anyone show, I also try not to show before the dealer mucks their cards. Except for the most obvious fish, you're going to show it or muck it before I show when I call you. I'm not demanding to see your allegedly losing hand, but I'm also not going to show out of turn while your cards are still live.
Where is caller finding home games in Utah?
Can someone tell me if my thinking is right, The thing about having pairs one point under the top card is they are still good to bet and call because they also make great blockers right ? hero blocks JQ hearts J Q spades Q J and Q K diamonds is blocked too.
12:58 “I sure did”
The coupon code didn't work.
Not trying to hate but calls like this are just annoying. Did this guy call in to get Bart’s take on the hand or just to hear his own analysis?
Just finished the video. Coupled with the outcome this just seems like a brag call. Lame
Isn't the turn bet trying to knock out a flush draw, or would they go all in to do this?
Love you Bart! Haven't even started the vid and the Title already had me cracking up. :)
how do I get invited to this homegame? It's in Salt Lake yeah?
Action starts on SB, never heard of that. Better action?
Classic "Either fold turn or call river" situation here
You're joking right?
Everything Bart tells him happens to be "what he thought" anyway... so why'd you call in?
I couldn't make it past 3:35.... Was this a real call or was the guy just trying to make a joke of Bart?
It seemed like the guy just gonna blast each street to get the Fold
Pretty sure dude thinks Bart should be calling him for analysis...
It's so weird that people call in and then don't shut the fuck up.
It worked out for him that time, but I 100% believe that it's a negative EV call on the river overall.
Agreed. I’m still pondering how he made it to the river honestly. The turn I’m pretty much bailing everytime, unless it goes check check or they bet so small that I’m getting 5:1 plus implied odds.
I’m happy that the caller held on with JJ, hero called, and got paid. However, like you mentioned, in most games that we play in casinos or card rooms, you are going busto in this spot. The river brings in the flush and straight, on top of any of the turned tips or boats. Caller was definitely excited, but I just don’t see this kind of play winning long-term.
Young person thinking he's so smart. So easy to see right through that. A bit of humility ironically they'll realize (hopefully) will give them wider range of aptitude and capacity under hidden control. The problem with arrogance especially in young person like this, their fallacy is thinking they are the only ones thinking and everyone else is just cattle...he doesn't realize lot of the "cattle" is running circles around him. lol
Hilarious that "Thinking" is in quotes.
For him to give not up on the turn after two calls is just royally stubborn. EVERYTHING got there.
This does often look like AKh or one diamond. The $700 on the turn is really, really suspect. But don't forget about 910h. That's just one combo and not sure if he 3bs this, but damn, if that is in his range pre-flop, this line makes perfect sense.
I think it's basically a bluff because he thinks our hero is capped when he checks turn, hence the super big bet to apply pressure to all the weak PP in hero's range
Calls like this have nothing to do with analysis, it's a pure ego boast from the player wanting to tell the world how amazing he is.
I live In Salt Lake. How can I join this game?
Let Bart talk
I bet if the villains flipped over AQ, he'd feel it was a cooler situation
I wanted to know what happened, but I couldn't listen to that guy (the caller) for one more minute.
Thinker, indeed.
I'm sorry this is not a thinking caller. Anyone who constantly interrupts someone who is asking their opinion on and needs to talk over them just wants to hear himself talk vs actually learning something. Guy needs to slow down on drinking 20 red bulls a day too lol. It was obvious to me he just wanted to give his opinions and thoughts vs listening to Bart at all. It would've been nice if he gave Bart 10 seconds to respond so I could've learned more about what Bart was stating about the turn.
I bet he had everyone covered
This guy doesn't let Bart speak
The biggest mistake you made in this hand... showing your hand first after your river call at the the end and allowing him to muck! For the way this played out you want as much information for future hands with this player...
I don't see why villain can't just have AQ... but also AK/AJ/AT/A5 of diamonds, if not more Axd, JTd, T9d, 76d, and maybe even the occasional Kxd. KQ suited probably in there too. Plus 88 and the occasional QQ (unlikely to bomb turn though).
For bluffs, the "logical" ones seem like JTh, J9h, T9h, maybe like a random 54h...?
I agree with Bart that it's a fold on paper. I don't think it's too insane for villain to snap jam river with AQ. Yeah the flush comes in but he can still get value and are you really calling nearly pot sized bet on the turn with a naked flush draw out of position with only 40% pot behind and it being a paired board? Doesn't seem very attractive.
Alternative title: dude that constantly interrupts and talks over Bart
Seems like the hero just got lucky and is using a live "tell" as retrospective justification for his stickiness. Would he have called into Bart if villain showed AQ or 88?
And im not sure why Hero thinks AA or KK wouldn't take this line, i'm pretty sure AA is a bet in equilibrium and considering Hero seems like a calling station, you can make a slight deviation and even jam KK here.
As far as bet pacing, yes its a useful many times tell but i see it done all the time when someone's holding the nuts or effective nuts. People sometimes get too excited and just want to put the money in. Villain could easily be snap jamming with a Q or eights full.
Snap actions like this are very often weak against recs and at live poker
AA and KK aren’t big bets 3 streets on this run out, when someone is betting mega polar and snap doing it without thought it’s so weakness
@@woolfie8766 yep
The place where I play, this wouldn't even be considered a hero call
He jammed on the river because the caller checked, which made the villain believe that the caller did not have a flush, so he he either was repping the flush himself or thought his holding was better. We never did find out what the villain had?
I’m 3 minutes in and already wishing the guy would shut up.
Dude you called an expert let him give his take. Jesus
Interesting call, but homie needs to lay off the coffee. 🤣
More like the coke
Was the point of this call just to hear himself talk... why not just say what you did and listen to Bart describe his thoughts and compare them to your own to see if your thinking matches and ask a question if it doesnt rather then streamroll the entire conversation to validate ego. Ego is the biggest problem with poker players who arent professionals and ask what they need to do to be successful. Check your ego be humble.
BART the people in the live chat, or telling him to shut up
wow what a play
Villain yolo'd AKoff
Who called who?
Villain probably had 7/2, 9/10 or J/10 trying to make a big play
I think villain had ace king
At 4:31 I though “okay so villain has KK - hero calls. Snipes a jack. Checks “in game flow” whatever the fuck that is. Villain jams and hero tanks for 6 minutes and ultimately calls lol that’s my guess here
8:53 ohhhhhh this makes sense too. He turns his jacks into a bluff ? Or puts villain on bluff with like 10’s or 9-10 of hearts.
This type of villain, that has triple barrel LAG going, needs to be made to show his hand when you call. I know that we don't want to shame them off the table or embarrass people, but if you can put him in your pocket I just feel your decisions get easier (more profitable/less variance) going forward.
the classic phone in brag
Wow everyone is such a hater stop paying so much attention to the caller because I enjoyed and learned from the video and come to the comments section to just see everyone hating on him for crap that never caught my attention
how interesting was that turn?
That is a great point there are no value hands that would snap jam the river here
He's giving the caller like 3.6 to 1 on making a call. With the reverse pot odds, he can jam really thin here. Any flush (which is a huge portion of his turn bluffs here), 88, or even AA w/ a diamond/Trips (if he bet that size on the turn) can probably snap shove for value here.
@M equals thats what i thought as well
not really, AA or a Q or a small diamond flush is an easy stack off, there's not much to think about. Villain could have easily been jamming with those hands.
omg, shut up dude. He's insufferable.
Did he ever find out what the Villain had?
What kind of range are we giving the opponent preflop? The flop might just be a check/fold especially given this sizing. You can't conflate this spot with CO vs BTN 3 bet pots where the ranges are much wider.
I'm never folding jacks on a queen high flop to a single bet when I'm this deep. That's too nitty. No matter how tight a player is you have to put every combo of AK in their 3-betting range.
@@connman8d617Then you're probably leaking in this spot. Ranges and sizings matter. 3 Bet pots against an UTG open at a full table and our defense range are both pretty tight. You should be defending a wider range vs 1/3 pot than the size villain used in this hand.
Flush is irrelevant. Either he has a Q or nothing. Turn Bet size doesn't match a hand trying to get value. He is either betting into a Q, or a hand that can't continue. Line makes no sense.
If you're ever playing against this guy and you semi bluff a nut flush draw on the flop and turn be sure you insta jam the river as soon as you see the front door come in, if you think about it he might fold, and you want him to pay you off with an underpair. Of course if you're bluffing, just count to 5 in your head first, maybe look at his stack then shove it in, and you'll get it though.
Lol
🙄🙄
@@seanariamd9581 Yea dude totally man!
This player is a mind reader.
Came to the comments knowing this guy would be getting flamed
Everyone on the internet knows better, clearly.
Brave man... I said brave.. Not smart lol
After the turn I would put him on a queen and fold