Deltarune - The World Revolving (Orchestrated)

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  • Опубликовано: 25 авг 2024
  • The World Revolving or Jevil Fight, from Deltarune (Orchestral Cover).
    Original melody and logo visual by Toby Fox. Orchestral arrangements by Osirois Music.
    ☕️Want to buy me a coffee? www.buymeacoff...
    ✪ Spotify: open.spotify.c...
    ✪ iTunes: itunes.apple.c...
    ✪ Bandcamp: osiroismusic.b...
    ✪ Prime Music: music.amazon.c...
    ✪ Google Play: play.google.co...
    ✪ RUclips Music: / osirois music - topic
    Fantastic art by J5-daigada: Here is a link to the original version:
    www.deviantart...
    #deltarune #deltaruneost #orchestrated #soundtrack #jevil

Комментарии • 587

  • @oswaldoperdigao1240
    @oswaldoperdigao1240 5 лет назад +1775

    Incredible. This is, without a doubt, one of the best orchestrated version of a video game song I've ever heard. It has subtlety, movement, impact and elegance. It doesn't allow itself to get overexcited in its verses, allowing the melody to shine through, but, at the same time, it is playful with the instruments, capturing both the joy and the eeriness of the piece.
    Good work.

    • @OsiroisMusic
      @OsiroisMusic  5 лет назад +81

      Thank you so much!

    • @coydog7902
      @coydog7902 5 лет назад +6

      This is honestly fantastic

    • @lifeisbutter6118
      @lifeisbutter6118 5 лет назад +5

      Exactly

    • @AikaDear
      @AikaDear 5 лет назад +11

      idk what that means but i agree

    • @Talik13
      @Talik13 5 лет назад +6

      I wanted to say something like this, but you clearly said it better

  • @dcar6067
    @dcar6067 5 лет назад +1291

    What.. WHAT? Did Tim Burton request that to Dany Elfman? That's professional-grade music!

  • @toksanmemoria
    @toksanmemoria 5 лет назад +431

    it's crazy how Deltarune's soundtrack almost instantly felt as classic and familiar as Undertales. also, this is amazing

  • @RandomExistencee
    @RandomExistencee 5 лет назад +472

    Characters with slippers apperantly get bonus points of strength and music

    • @floweyfangirl69420
      @floweyfangirl69420 4 года назад +20

      Sans isn't that strong
      If wasn't for the karma and he dodging the attacks, he would be one of the easiest enemy

    • @gryphonlee4975
      @gryphonlee4975 4 года назад +27

      Internet you know Undyne isn’t that strong if it weren’t for the spears and determination

    • @floweyfangirl69420
      @floweyfangirl69420 4 года назад +20

      @@gryphonlee4975 but the spears are her attacks
      Any boss wouldn't be strong if wasn't for its attacks
      And the determination is part of her. Is the same as saying that "Mettaton wouldn't be strong if wasn't for his legs"

    • @gryphonlee4975
      @gryphonlee4975 4 года назад +22

      Internet I’m pretty sure Sans dodging is a thing he can do because he can, not because you murdered pretty much everyone

    • @gojifankotm7927
      @gojifankotm7927 3 года назад +8

      Those are clown shoes. Not slippers.

  • @bionicdragon5
    @bionicdragon5 5 лет назад +527

    It's all CHAOS down here, Georgie!
    Why, down here...
    *YOU CAN DO ANYTHING TOO!*

  • @blvdcharms
    @blvdcharms 5 лет назад +603

    I love what you did to get the tempo up slowly. The build-up was worth it.

  • @alphexon2077
    @alphexon2077 5 лет назад +1303

    The best Undertale/Deltarune orchestrater on RUclips strikes again.

  • @Yoshiyosh
    @Yoshiyosh 5 лет назад +405

    This
    This is really good
    I can close my eyes and actually imagine an orchestra playing this. It's that good.

    • @eternumblaze7097
      @eternumblaze7097 5 лет назад +8

      I did the same thing! It's so true and so good!

  • @ChristopherMoom
    @ChristopherMoom 5 лет назад +1169

    *_PIIP PIIP, LET'S PLAY THE ORCHESTRAL GAME!_*
    *_PLEASE, IT'S JUST A SIMPLE REMIX!_*

    • @DillonSolos
      @DillonSolos 5 лет назад +35

      You show up everywhere on Undertale/Deltarune videos. Respect.

    • @tereziipyrope
      @tereziipyrope 5 лет назад +12

      DillonSolos ™ they also appear on super Mario Maker videos too, and occasionally other places. I think I once saw them on Pyrocynical

    • @masterspoiler2367
      @masterspoiler2367 5 лет назад +31

      Let's just agree that he's omnipresent

    • @cloud7379
      @cloud7379 5 лет назад +11

      This boi has been on wayyyy to many communities

    • @lxl7156
      @lxl7156 5 лет назад +7

      Jeez. You’re everywhere...

  • @WettSokks
    @WettSokks 2 года назад +37

    I love how the the carousel spins around according to the speed of the music, fantastic detail!

  • @jaymo4504
    @jaymo4504 5 лет назад +264

    I love how the background also speeds up with the music!! Honeslty this track is amazing!

  • @zed147itsdatboi3
    @zed147itsdatboi3 5 лет назад +454

    Beginning: hhhm freedom seems a little slow.
    1:07 oh here we go!
    1:33 CHAOS CHAOS!!!
    2:00 Even Devils-Knife is Smiling!
    2:17 I CAN DO ANYTHING!!!!!!
    2:32 Who keeps spinning the world around?
    2:44 Everything is just a game.
    2:50 UEE Hee Hee can’t you see? Your world’s a Fantasy!!!
    3:12 (the best place to hide is insanaty)/
    BYE BYE!!!

  • @joshuagray04
    @joshuagray04 2 года назад +32

    This is amazing. Far too often, orchestral covers of game songs usually just directly copy-paste lines from the original onto an orhcestral instrument without altering the style of the piece as a whole, which tends to sound really awkward. I love this arrangement because it instead reimagines the piece entirely as thought it were originally written for an elfman-esque orchestra. Absolutely superb.

  • @ember3579
    @ember3579 5 лет назад +106

    There's something VERY distinctly Beetlejuice about this version. I like it.

    • @theratman6468
      @theratman6468 3 года назад +5

      Jevil is Beetlejuice confirmed

    • @Blazewoods
      @Blazewoods 2 года назад +3

      The beetle juice theme was composed by Danny Elfman, whose other music sounds also similar to this (He composed the Nightmare Before Christmas soundtrack if that tells you anything), so you might like his other work!! I highly recommend checking it out!

  • @doge_zamurai
    @doge_zamurai 3 года назад +15

    徐々に楽器が増えていって壮大になって混沌が広がっていくの好き

  • @Talik13
    @Talik13 5 лет назад +19

    I really REALLY like the woodwind solo for the melody around 2:20. It's sublime.
    Also, that transition from the minor "revolving" score to the Deltarune score and then trailing off into minor keys again was just beautiful and super appropriate.

  • @yaboi5893
    @yaboi5893 5 лет назад +90

    my friends: you can't just keep listening to that one song
    me: *I CAN DO ANYTHING!*

  • @TheAdvertisement
    @TheAdvertisement 5 лет назад +61

    Damn the tension in this builds up so well, until suddenly the chaos starts!

    • @42LMS
      @42LMS 4 года назад +1

      Hello there
      ...General Kenobi

    • @TheAdvertisement
      @TheAdvertisement 4 года назад +1

      Mr. Miacis You are a bold one.

    • @kingmidasxynopyt
      @kingmidasxynopyt 10 месяцев назад

      Every time >: (
      I might commit a chaos chaos of my own in a minute

  • @jadak7714
    @jadak7714 5 лет назад +62

    I only ever listen to hard rock covers of the world revolving but this is amazing omg

  • @ketry_greentea
    @ketry_greentea 5 лет назад +162

    I love remixes.
    I love remixes that sound like an orchestra.
    I love Undertale.
    I LOVE your remixes. They are incredible!

    • @The-devour-of-light
      @The-devour-of-light 2 года назад +2

      Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm ok..... have you ever heard of delta Rune?

    • @imanuelc143
      @imanuelc143 2 года назад +2

      @@The-devour-of-light no- *the legend intensifies*

    • @The-devour-of-light
      @The-devour-of-light 2 года назад +2

      @@imanuelc143 yeeeeeeeeees friend?

  • @gameninjac6608
    @gameninjac6608 2 года назад +4

    I am so glad that I don't see anyone dissing that it take too long to start, because it doesn't. The building tension throughout the whole song makes it so much better.

  • @ojazzyone6812
    @ojazzyone6812 5 лет назад +35

    Why do I wish I was on the carousel in the background? WHY!?
    It just looks like it goes so FAST! I wanna ride!

  • @scottishtrainer7823
    @scottishtrainer7823 4 года назад +11

    This has a Joker feel to it. I love it.

  • @noxobscurum2194
    @noxobscurum2194 5 лет назад +48

    Well once again a beautiful piece. I got chills listening to it you can feel the tension and then the release into the battle ... I just wish you had more recognition honestly you are doing such a good job. As always thanks for that amazing musics and can't wait for the next one ^^

    • @OsiroisMusic
      @OsiroisMusic  5 лет назад +1

      Thank you :-) The numbers keep growing!

  • @JeffHardy1526
    @JeffHardy1526 5 лет назад +15

    Really nice, hearing this made mi think that's been almost a year since Deltarune ch.1 came out, time flies man...

  • @HobbitWithABlunt7079
    @HobbitWithABlunt7079 3 года назад +10

    This is as good as it gets. It's impossible to get a better version of jevil's theme....AT ALL!! Amazing work!! It's perfect.

  • @vacuoussaturn
    @vacuoussaturn 5 лет назад +7

    This is without a doubt, one of the best remixes of the world revolving that I've ever heard. Not only does it just succeed at being a great piece of music in general, but it also captures the emotions you feel when fighting jevil, combining all the intensity, all the strangeness, and all of the weird funny parts of the fight and the song and made into a triumphant composition. Well done.

  • @ElysiaEsper
    @ElysiaEsper 2 года назад +2

    the more i go thru your whole channel and UTDR content, i'm convinced you're a genius. prime time quality content

  • @elizabethdespair
    @elizabethdespair 5 лет назад +49

    "A beauty inside our hearts."

  • @thedarkcacturne6714
    @thedarkcacturne6714 4 года назад +4

    Holy shit... I swore the audio at the beginning was playing outside my headphones. Idk how you did this but I’m blown away. How do you not have more views? Cmon people this is a musical genius at work

  • @Mac_Omegaly
    @Mac_Omegaly 5 лет назад +5

    If I had one gripe, it was that this incredible ride was just too short.
    I love the slow and subtle buildup. The vocalization in the background help increase the creep factor. Truly this was amazingly adapted and executed! Bravo!!

  • @vampfirestrife1723
    @vampfirestrife1723 5 лет назад +126

    Me: You can’t do anything in this merry-go-round. It’s very slow
    Jevil: Slow, slow?
    Me: Oh *** he’s here
    Jevil: I can do anything! *makes carousel faster*

    • @bladeoftheruinedking2543
      @bladeoftheruinedking2543 3 года назад

      Faster daddy

    • @medelicoribu7072
      @medelicoribu7072 3 года назад

      @@bladeoftheruinedking2543 *i, corrupted_oliv3 would like to politely ask you to give me an answer to my inquiries about what in the name of spaghetti you decided to deliver upon this malevolent and cursed space plagued with life, otherwise known as the planet earth, in the moment of this here infinite, endless time of space.*

  • @xylopiano3
    @xylopiano3 5 лет назад +7

    Toby Fox and Tim Burton's The CHAOS Before Christmas

  • @DoodleDude50
    @DoodleDude50 Год назад +2

    This is like some end credits for a jevil horror movie!

  • @jiaolang1207
    @jiaolang1207 5 лет назад +3

    This is Brilliant, it sounds so elegant and REAL, I want to listen to this live it's so beautiful!!

  • @johnnyconley9979
    @johnnyconley9979 5 лет назад +22

    You are a master of orchestration my good friend. This cover is pretty spooky and has that creepy vibe, But this was really darn good, Great work on this track 👍. Will you consider doing an orchestral arrangement of Dracula's Theme (Opening Demo) from Super Castlevania IV (SNES).

    • @OsiroisMusic
      @OsiroisMusic  5 лет назад +3

      It is now on my list of tracks to explore :-)

    • @johnnyconley9979
      @johnnyconley9979 5 лет назад

      @@OsiroisMusic Thanks 😃.
      I'll be looking out for the track, Also, What VST and MIDI keyboard do you use in your Orchestral covers?

  • @nerd8745
    @nerd8745 5 лет назад +8

    How can you be so awesome?
    I freakin' loved this.

  • @Gedeon266
    @Gedeon266 5 лет назад +21

    It's incredible ! I have truly the feel of revolving with this !
    Wonderful job like always ^^

  • @epicsansgaster9796
    @epicsansgaster9796 3 года назад

    Ah, the flow of music with splendid flow of gentle orchestral music fills the air. Yet deep inside, you feel like Disney's theme song is somehow mixed inside yet you feel somehow calm

  • @JotaTheCreature
    @JotaTheCreature Год назад +1

    That ending is just magnificent!

  • @magolorthegreat809
    @magolorthegreat809 4 года назад +3

    Sans: Would you like to spend a ... Bad time?
    Jevil: And you want to play the top game with me?

  • @goose3254
    @goose3254 Год назад

    The way the build up is done is perfect it reminds me of one of those old carnival wagons that you crank to play the songs

  • @kriscrimetm6961
    @kriscrimetm6961 2 года назад +1

    This is the type of Orchestra music you find on old disney movies

  • @minimongus
    @minimongus 4 года назад +4

    2015: *wanna have a bad time*
    2018: I CAN DO ANYTHINNGGGGGGG

    • @TorayNix
      @TorayNix 2 года назад

      2021:NOW'S YOUR CHANCE TO BE A [BIG SHOT]

  • @RealR053
    @RealR053 5 лет назад +7

    It sounds almost joyful and I almost forget that jevil has a giant sickle and has gone insane

    • @thelunchking4069
      @thelunchking4069 5 лет назад

      N O not a sickle TEH DEVILSKNIFE >:(

    • @crimsonchin5063
      @crimsonchin5063 4 года назад

      But he’s happy

    • @Rei-tm3so
      @Rei-tm3so 4 года назад

      Poor jevil gaster or The knight broke his mind
      He knows too much :(

  • @generalkenobi9803
    @generalkenobi9803 2 года назад +1

    This is the only version of the song that I haven't gotten tired of lol

  • @craz2580
    @craz2580 2 года назад +1

    It builds up so much

  • @Summer60_
    @Summer60_ 2 года назад +2

    i used a toothpick to draw spamton in cookie frosting while listening to this, 10/10 experience.

  • @sirfurbingtonthe23rd4
    @sirfurbingtonthe23rd4 3 года назад +6

    I got chills from this. This is amazing, one of the best orchestral renditions of this song, by far.

  • @inukoinu.k9
    @inukoinu.k9 5 лет назад +24

    1 dislike? that’s enough. no more please. this is perfect.

    • @asr1el_d
      @asr1el_d 5 лет назад +5

      That one was jerry

    • @tyto4613
      @tyto4613 5 лет назад +1

      I'm sorry ur wish has failed

    • @inukoinu.k9
      @inukoinu.k9 5 лет назад +1

      noob master69 ruclips.net/video/5JQJ-QmfvtM/видео.html
      :( Press F to pay respects

    • @42LMS
      @42LMS 4 года назад

      You jinxed it, fuck you

  • @atomykebonpyre
    @atomykebonpyre 5 лет назад +1

    The way the slow part at the beginning sped up slowly into the rest of the song really got me fam.

  • @JairusC
    @JairusC 5 лет назад +6

    Wonderful job with this arrangement and utilizing the wind runs texture. Great job with that ending as well.
    Can't wait to hear more from you. Would to see you arrange music from other games as well.

  • @bepo1531
    @bepo1531 5 лет назад +4

    Both Tristan Gray and Osirois Music upload on the same day... We have been blessed!

  • @Ruby_Star
    @Ruby_Star 2 года назад

    Why have I only found you NOW? I could have had the joy of listening to your music for years!

  • @trollian_alien
    @trollian_alien 2 года назад +1

    It sounds like a creepy carnival at first until the fin gang gets to play a simple numbers game...

  • @admiralfurret
    @admiralfurret Год назад +3

    Delatrune orchestra but the cast is on a platform that starts rotating faster and faster

  • @The_Rising_Dragon
    @The_Rising_Dragon 5 лет назад +405

    *[INSERT GENERIC COMMENT ABOUT JEVIL AND REPEATING-REPEATING HERE]*

    • @banrajanand7983
      @banrajanand7983 5 лет назад +30

      [ *insert typical reply here and all the garbage about copy pastas* ]

    • @HoliDaze_CelestialLunacy
      @HoliDaze_CelestialLunacy 5 лет назад +18

      [INSERT TYPICAL REPLY OF INSERTING TYPICAL REPLY]

    • @crypticweeb
      @crypticweeb 5 лет назад +16

      [INSERT TYPICAL REPLY OF INSERTING "INSERT TYPICAL REPLY OF INSERTING TYPICAL REPLY"]

    • @bryanbarcelo5440
      @bryanbarcelo5440 5 лет назад +21

      [insert generic confusion reply]

    • @chrysd1162
      @chrysd1162 5 лет назад +18

      [insert general agreement followed by an lol]

  • @PlayThyCards
    @PlayThyCards 3 года назад +1

    He went from “Chaos, Chaos!” to “Commotion, Commotion. ”

  • @TheDimensionDweller
    @TheDimensionDweller 5 лет назад +1

    Oof, that "I'm with you in the dark" section, however brief, just sounds amazing. Somehow elevates itself over the magnificence of the rest.

  • @MinhTran-qt2pi
    @MinhTran-qt2pi 5 лет назад +24

    Do you plan to do your own interpretation of megalovania?

  • @aldenmonroe757
    @aldenmonroe757 Год назад

    This is literally what I hear when I get angry and my friends try to tame the fiery blaze. 🔥

  • @generalkt5398
    @generalkt5398 4 года назад

    Oh my gosh, I am astonished. This song has such a different feel from the original song, this cover actually bringing an anxiety-inducing but naturally and progressively chaotic feel. The song really captures what it would be like to enter Jevil’s cell, and fight him with the chaotic spinning room, and his bouncing up and down. It’s just, so good. Fantastic work.

  • @illburnmybread2897
    @illburnmybread2897 5 лет назад +18

    Ow boooooy, looking grood J̶o̶k̶e̶r̶ !
    How do you do that, I want to do things as great as yours now !
    I WANT YOUR SECRET NOW !

  • @jackstavrakas1118
    @jackstavrakas1118 5 лет назад

    I've listened to this RUclipsr's stuff before, but this is the video that made me subscribe. 10/10 for the slow build.

  • @Gronalak
    @Gronalak 5 лет назад +2

    Yep. That's gonna fit perfectly in my playlist.
    Amazing work, as always !

  • @South_Down
    @South_Down 5 лет назад +1

    In b4 the algorithm makes this blow up. Really has a vibe to it you dont get from games anymore. Kinda like wandering around a calm town on an old game like kingdom hearts, then it amps up like a boss fight

  • @Kokorosakurachi
    @Kokorosakurachi 4 года назад +1

    in the begining this song has such a nightmare before christmas vibe. its soooo goooddd!!

  • @scarelec6989
    @scarelec6989 5 лет назад

    Somehow this makes this song make even more sense.

  • @redknight1871
    @redknight1871 3 месяца назад

    We need an extended version of this guys XD. This orchestra is great

  • @mehpainter
    @mehpainter Год назад

    This has probably been said a thousand times already but this sounds like something Danny Elfman would make for The Nightmare Before Christmas, good job dude!

  • @reaperer256
    @reaperer256 5 лет назад

    That is a Satisfying work of weaponry right there.

  • @borisshnitkov7600
    @borisshnitkov7600 5 лет назад

    This is like really, REALLY good! It's not just somebody replaying the original song on a different instrument, but a whole different song with elements of the original being in it, I absolutely love it!

  • @im_luci.0o0
    @im_luci.0o0 3 года назад +1

    Any videos you posted about undertale and deltarune i always liked it UwU

  • @Br1numbergatita
    @Br1numbergatita 12 дней назад

    The music is crazy

  • @Hunterb0t12
    @Hunterb0t12 4 года назад +3

    2:01 this part always gets me. Holy shit this is so amazing

  • @MeLlamoCarl
    @MeLlamoCarl 5 лет назад

    im ready for a movie with that sound

  • @kal6544
    @kal6544 2 года назад

    I keep coming back to this dude. its so well made it sounds SO good. this is gorgeous

  • @florenciafracas5702
    @florenciafracas5702 5 лет назад +1

    You are the one that got me in orchestal music when it comes to listen someting!!! (That's my way to say you're awsome AND thank you)

  • @weeronnotochi2240
    @weeronnotochi2240 4 года назад +2

    im speechless, I love the style

  • @inyghst3873
    @inyghst3873 5 лет назад +1

    THAT IS SO EPIC!!!!!!!!

  • @raythegamer8860
    @raythegamer8860 Год назад

    I'm imagining a Deltarune movie now because of this song
    Come on, Toby Fox

  • @Spartan_S-007
    @Spartan_S-007 5 лет назад +5

    A hello From Brazil, and also I loved the song

  • @aosevenvultures5368
    @aosevenvultures5368 2 года назад +1

    I love the cover of music

  • @thebrittzter2412
    @thebrittzter2412 5 лет назад +11

    Got such Harry Potter vibes from this, bravo! The arrangement is fantastic and really suits the chaos of Jevil's personality. Again, bravo!

    • @terrydexter9867
      @terrydexter9867 4 года назад +2

      Its Tim Burton you uncultured swine.

    • @medelicoribu7072
      @medelicoribu7072 3 года назад

      @@terrydexter9867 *i, corrupted_oliv3 would like to politely ask you to give me an answer to my inquiries about what in the name of spaghetti you decided to deliver upon this malevolent and cursed space plagued with life, otherwise known as the planet earth, in the moment of this here infinite, endless time of space.*

  • @thedinosaurman8507
    @thedinosaurman8507 4 года назад

    This is so good playing in the background as I slowly dip into madness from a broken heart

  • @Maraudity
    @Maraudity 5 лет назад

    Wow. I got chills when the main theme came in at the end. Excellent job!

  • @eternumblaze7097
    @eternumblaze7097 5 лет назад

    Chills, it gave me absolute chills! One of the best sounding orchestral arrangements I've ever heard! If there was ever a Deltarune live action movie I would want this version of the song to play for sure!

  • @coolchrisable
    @coolchrisable 5 лет назад

    this man is doing anything

  • @Topoxygen
    @Topoxygen 5 лет назад

    Amazing, that's the best cover of that piece I've ever heard. So many details, while keeping all the notes of the original melody intact... good job!

  • @yokai1779
    @yokai1779 4 года назад +1

    Im really impressed ur talented

  • @levidyen3983
    @levidyen3983 4 года назад +1

    It sounds like a old cartoon video game but it really good and funnnnnnn

  • @ScribbleSans69
    @ScribbleSans69 Год назад

    Me headbopping to the song:
    "Hell yeah imma dislocate my vertebrae tonight!"

  • @demonmurasame733
    @demonmurasame733 5 лет назад +1

    Should this ever start playing on an abandoned leisure park at night, I swear to you: Light will no longer be the fastest moving thing in the universe. That would be me getting the hell out of there :)
    This is absolutely incredible orchestrated! Respect!

  • @ShericeSinger
    @ShericeSinger Год назад +1

    It sounds like it’s straight out of his horror movie

  • @pumpkinpie5471
    @pumpkinpie5471 5 лет назад

    Probably the best one yet

  • @Crazedromantic2
    @Crazedromantic2 5 лет назад

    This is the best orchestral version I've heard, hands down. It's so much more than just different instrumentation. Wow.

  • @dxsbond
    @dxsbond 4 года назад

    Wow this is just one of the best orchestrated game songs ever I usually play band but this is over the top for an orchestra

  • @ahmedhamza7671
    @ahmedhamza7671 4 года назад +2

    Welp this brings back bad memories
    Inside my brain: PIIP, PIIP LETS PLAY THE CAROUSEL GAME,
    CHAOS CHAOS,
    I CAN DO ANYTHING,
    JUST KIDDING THIS IS MY FINAL ATTACK,
    THE DEVILS KNIFE IS SMILING,
    Me: oh boy thank god that time is over

  • @overseer1483
    @overseer1483 2 года назад

    When you can make stuff like this I do think you can do anything!

  • @garuccadraws
    @garuccadraws 5 лет назад +1

    Dang...... This is such a masterpiece! You can't even tell its a cover! You just made 'The World Revolving' into your own composition * 0 * Honestly! Great job with this * W *