@adsfafad What a load of shit, developing force production is literally strength, combining it with speed gives you power. There isn't a study on earth that shows that power lifts are more effective at developing strength than actual strength training, and if there is, it's a load of horseshit.
It is actually a answer, because in this very answer it is stated that an improvement of 15 -20 % in vertical jump can actually be accomplished, and this percentage is far from insignificant.
I know this isn't popular along people like us but I do think power can be trained very well for about 6 weeks especially in slower people. This is n=3 after 2 weeks of general technique learning on the power snatch with some clients some years ago. One of them gained 30% on his vertical. The others gained like 20%. It really was amazing. The studies on power training haven't been done with actual training like I did. Of course I only see benefit in doing this for 6 weeks if it ever were needed for a competition of sorts.
Many of these comments confuse improving vertical jump by improving technique with training vertical jump once technique is learned. The percentage increase in strength induced, after good technique is learned, by strength training is an order of magnitude greater than the percentage increase in vertical jump induced, after the best technique is learned, by training. This difference is the point Rip is making. "Improving technique" is what Rip would call "practice" of a particular skill, not "training".
What's this with the svj, surely body composition takes a huge part of how high you will jump. A good 70feet shot putter or a 220feet discus thrower weighs about 300 lbs and more. They could'nt jump for their dear lives, compared to an easy guy, but no one could deny that they are VERY explosive...
So does a 36 vertical jump mean you will be the best person in what ever sport you do, boxing, weightlifting or powerlifting? Or doesn't it matter because you can always get stronger?
I think he’s saying the ability to call on all those muscles at once for a greater outcome is the key and he’s just using vertical jump as the example. Correct being able to have a 33” vert won’t give you an advantage in boxing like it would in Football or basketball. But the person that has that 33” can use the same focus needed for that jump in other ways. Does that make sense?
@@rambosaurusrex449 being an explosive athlete will certainly make every bit of difference in boxing as other sports. I've been punched harder by a 160lb guy with very fast hands than the 210lb guy who's pretty damn strong. Power also makes you quicker on your feet. As for me, I'm not very explosive, but I've gotten quicker after getting my squat from 125 to 380 for 3 sets of 5.
freneticfanatic I’m not saying that it wouldn’t help I’m using boxing as a specific example to a specific test. A 215 lb boxer won’t have the same vert as a 215 lb nba player, but an nba player probably can’t hit as hard as a boxer. That what I meant, your vert just basically determines your explosiveness and not the force you put behind it
@@freneticfanatic what's your vertical jump? Mine is 18" am 32 6ft2 and struggling to squat over 100kg, I just put it down to am genetically ment to be a girl 😂
Look at the guys with 600 pound squats lmao. Go check out the oly lifters and power lifters. Their verts are around 28-36. That is after squatting 600 pounds lmao. focus on jump squatting with dumbells for much better results with power cleans and move fast af. The weight needs to move fast as possible
So we can train the CNS to recruit more muscle fibers for maximal force production but not train it to increase speed of muscle fiber recruitment? Why?
With a 17” vertical jump, I gave up on power cleans when I capped at 155 lbs. Still squat at 375 and pull over 400. Explosivity just isn’t in my cards but strength is, I guess.
Genetics may well be the thing that determines vertical jump but your explanation is way off. The thing that makes someone jump high is not actually power (although they are related) it is actually the kinetic energy they have when they leave the, ground (1/2mv2). For a constant mass we therefore care about take off velocity. In order to maximise take off velocity we need to maximise the change in momentum before they leave the ground (momentum = mv). This is called the impulse of the force (force x time). This is also the thing that determines the ‘harness’ of someone hitting you (force = change in momentum / time to slow down). This is why car manufacturers try and slow down the collision time (increase t in equation) by making the car crumple. The longer the time to slow down, the lower the impact force. But clearly the total change in kinetic energy is unaffected. power is more appropriately described as the rate of change of energy. You got it wrong when you confused the everyday layman use of the power and its basis in physics.
Hes not wrong. Both work, All you did was reformulate it. Talking in terms of power makes just as much sense because it takes more power to accelerate a mass at a faster rate
That was a great question. I learned all kinds of things that i didn't know. You answered it beautifully, so why insult the question. We are out here for decadeson our own, trying to figure things out, and a goid teacher shows up, but turns a lot of people off. Why even teach?. Was there something else said?
if the theoretical lifter who has had his squat go from 155 to 450 puts on 50+ pounds of body weight. While still at the same time, having his vertical jump stay the same hasn't he improved his vertical jump power output. However now, he is pushing against a larger load making it stay the same or not change much in overall performance . There is a larger load due to the increase in body weight. If said athletes removes much of the fat that he has while maintaining his strength I wonder how much an improvement can be made?
Mark I respect you for all you have done in the strength world. Have learned a lot from your teachings. However, on the vertical jump / speed potential comments you are incorrect sir. I am a sprint coach and we make athletes faster and jump higher all the time. You are right that decent athletes plateau between 20-24 inches and usually stay there. The way to make big gains from this point is by training the nervous system and building elasticity in the ankles/ knees/ hips/ shoulders. Just ask any teen doing a serious jump / dunk program for basketball- these kids regularly add 10-15 inches to their vertical jump. There are many young players who literally document their progress from 20 inches to 35 inches + (RUclips). I know where you are coming from though, as the field of sprinting/ jumping power is very complicated and different than strength development. It is true that the potential for improvement is dependent on genetics - but anyone can improve if they know what they are doing. Improving sprinting mechanics is similar to improving your lifting mechanics- you become more efficient at delivering force to the ground so you become faster. Again this is very complicated and is perhaps why you tell people to not bother trying. All they have to do is seek out a track coach. If they go in with high levels of strength and mobility- they will improve quickly under a qualified sprint coach.
I wish this would have been known by me about 14 years ago. That was when my placement was based on a vertical jump that I could NEVER improve. I practiced as instructed and only moved up 2”. And...even though I smoked every other exercise this inability to jump gave me a zero. STUPID!!! I’ve had to suffer as a result of false understanding. Thanks Rip for validating my apparently crappy genetics.
People do improve though. Genetics decide the ceiling and potential for improvement. So yeah genetics play an important part but Rip taking it to the other extreme isn't completely right either. A lot of the 'muscle recruitment' everyone likes to talk about without really understanding it occurs at the central nervous level and you can improve that as well (of course genetics play a part there too), plus the vertical jump is also heavily dependent on technique so any bad technique could be a substantial mechanical disadvantage.
I actually said I improved, just not much. I was at my max potential yet was not enough for the evaluators who had similar ideas as you. Not everyone can improve to what you think is possible. I’m limited in that way but, I have other skills as well. I have a feeling there is some research that is behind this that is just not being documented.
@@usfaaartillerist You can actually improve speed/quickness my reducing weight. There is some science regarding assisted speed training, which seems to support this. But it takes lots of practice and repetitions
I think you need to make a segment where you answer a question that's in the book. Very good and make a big deal of it, humiliating. Maybe people will read the book?
Bill Burr had a bit about Tom Brady attempting to tackle someone on a return after an interception. He said that Brady's "tackling" looked more like someone had flung a dead body out of a moving car.
What about basketball players who have 40" verts. Tall lankey not too powerfull by any means basketball players. I think speed is a better indicator of power, like 40 yard dash speed.
@@charlesfisher3983 I think very few humans have a 40" vert but most ones that do are in the NBA. 40" vert will get a 6'8" guys' head above the rim...which alot of NBA guys are able to do being less than 6'8". Fairly common in NBA.
Power is an equation, it's the ability to show strength over distance in a given time. His point is that the muscle you can recruit is limited by genetics so if you want to increase power output you need to get stronger. The guy with the 40inch verticle is only more powerful if he's moving the same weight as the guy with the smaller verticle. So your comment is technically correct.
@@charlesfisher3983 do they measure the standing reach of the player including the plantar flexion of the ankle (not sure what term to use,but the movement that is like a standing calf raise)position before jumping?
Young athletes if you watch this video please understand Mark isn't the best authority on athletics. Do some research on Gregg Everett, Bret Contreras, Tony Gentilcore, Eric Cressey (heard he was good). Greg nuckols is also one that I really like.
@@VegetoStevieD Rip made a stellar program that will benefit almost any and every beginning trainee, but he isn't omniscient and certainly doesn't hold the kind of qualifications to be speaking as an expert in as many fields as he does. Many(possibly all) of the people Jonathan named are people who have said qualifications. They can offer credible, verifiable proof to back up their statements. Many of these proofs are research papers they themselves contributed to. They are, without question, genuine experts in their given fields. In contrast to this, Mark oversteps his bounds at times and speaks from a place that is informed enough to sound convincing, but doesnt accurately reflect what the data says today.
If a peraon cannot significantly increase their vertical from weigh training, then volleyball, basketball players, and track athletes don't need to weight train.
To train for power what you need to do(with proper form and not overweighted) is(let's use bench for example)when you're pushing the weight up, you push it up as fast as you can, then slowly lower the weight and then push it back up as fast as you can. I can't stress form enough and not to overweight yourself when training for power. This method is used in every exercise. That's how you train for explosive power.
Any theacher: "There are no stupid questions" Rip: *insert meme answer* Here's the thing. So many people want to be a professional athlete that teams need to come up with a screening based on something that is not trainable(why, though?). It's stupid, but it's the way it is. Sports are complex (especially those sports that are games) and the complexity is so high that one single parameter is NOT that relevant. But since everyone is following the mainstream school of thinking nobody really pays the price for believing a stupid idea. Think about it, if every runner shot himself in the foot, the play field would be evened out and nobody would notice that you actually run better with both of your feet...Until someone tries this unconventional approach. Applying the analogy to the matter at hand: if coaches started to select athletes based on other things rather than the high vertical jump test, they would stop shooting themselves in the foot and recruit better people than they are now. If you selected athletes based on trainable skills only, you would be sore to be choosing only those who can wholeheartedly committ to the sport, and a committed low jumper will (probably?) accomplish more than a high jumper who thinks he can put in less effort because he's got the genetics. You really don't know until you put the idea to the test.
I don't disagree with Rip on much, but on this, I definitely do. Furthermore, while I agree that genetics do play their part in regard to power production, that's not to say that power can't improve exponentially, OR that genetics don't limit strength as well. SS is the probably the most perfect strength building program out there, but it's limited when it comes to athletic performance.
@@everydaywarriors I'll give you that "improve exponentially" was hyperbolic, but you might want to chill on who you call "under educated" without asking some clarifying questions. Good try though.
@@johnbackos5192 Yes, power can be improved by improving force, you don't need to watch the clip, you can decipher that through reason, or by reviewing your exercise physiology text book. My disagreement is in regard to the vertical jump (in his/your defense, I didn't specify this in my original comment). People can improve their vertical jump by quite a bit, arguably in spite of their genetics (see Knees Over Toes Guy, Paul Fabritz of PJF performance, etc.). And not always necessarily from just training power development, but also by improving the stretch shortening cycle of their muscles, or just by improving their jump technique. Good enough?
It is a program designed to increase strength so that you can take that to your sport. This is an absurd comment. It is not a sports specific program. Strength is a basic foundation of any and all sports and human activity.
@Ze TheGame My standing vertical is above 30inches and I never practice any jumping. In the powerlifting world 30 inch jumps are common among the lower weight classes. The major feature of nba players is height not jump, the latter of which they usually are not particularly good at.
Ze TheGame I don't think you understand. Tall has nothing to do with it. They subtract your standing reach from your verticle. It is merely 1 way of testing someone's potential at their given height and weight. It's not the be all end all. Powerlifting has fuckall to do with power except that when you lift somthing heavy you generate it. The sport should be called strength lifting as its irrelevant how fast you lift the weight.
@Ze TheGame I know you're not strong, I also know you have bizarre ideas precisely because you're not strong. What you completely miss though is that 40lbs of muscle, ie LBM, for someone taller in a year is very doable as rip has illustrated time and again. My goal as a coach ideally is to get people to a 500 squat in a year. But it seems like years of no progress is what's going to make you realize the above, not words. Normally I'd offer to coach you, but this is a shtposting account.
If I can clean today what I could only deadlift a year wouldn't that already prove your point to be wrong? If my squat doubles or even triples and my bodyweight only goes up 30 or 40 pounds that would mean I would jump significantly higher. Very much like I can throw my previous deadlift weight up to my shoulders all of a sudden.
So literally all dancers that get known for their jumps are genetically power people! 🤗🕺🏼 I was called Michael jordan by my ballet teacher in contemporary Dance academy because I could jump double the length and land at the same beat on the music as my other male classmates that looked like dough-bag frogs squating around somewhere down below me trying to land in time of the beat ahead! 😂 Actually my ability to lift and jump above the others took me into SUNY purchase NYC because I stood out from the crowd when jumping in an audtion as well! They came runninf after the audition which they never do normally to the applicants and said: Just so You know, you are In, you Rock man!! 🚀 I love jumping, is just my Swedish Viking genetics I guess 🤷🏼♂️
Wouldn't speed and force off the ground be more important than the total height off the ground in a jump when assessing potential with power cleans? A lot of jumping high or far is fine tuning athletic skill. Look in Rugby, this guy Manu Tuilagi can't jump worth shit but he can pick up and dump a 350lb runner coming at him full tilt.
@Ze TheGame Jumping is actually a pretty complex movement, merely fixing someone's coordination in execution helps him improve it. I would say that short 10-20m sprint accelerations are a better indicator of raw explosive power since the technical considerations are less and you're not fighting against gravity in the same way. I would venture on to bet that those same weightlifters would be deceptively explosive in short distance sprints. Btw power cleans are used by sprinters to increase explosive power; explosive power is used for jumping; hence power cleans do improve jumping ability- but so do squats, lunges, deadlifts etc.
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
this is absolutely not a stupid question, I learned a lot from your response!
@adsfafad What a load of shit, developing force production is literally strength, combining it with speed gives you power. There isn't a study on earth that shows that power lifts are more effective at developing strength than actual strength training, and if there is, it's a load of horseshit.
@@gasbaroni From what I understand you can train heavy and fast to develop your fast twitch fibers.
It is actually a answer, because in this very answer it is stated that an improvement of 15 -20 % in vertical jump can actually be accomplished, and this percentage is far from insignificant.
I know this isn't popular along people like us but I do think power can be trained very well for about 6 weeks especially in slower people. This is n=3 after 2 weeks of general technique learning on the power snatch with some clients some years ago. One of them gained 30% on his vertical. The others gained like 20%. It really was amazing. The studies on power training haven't been done with actual training like I did. Of course I only see benefit in doing this for 6 weeks if it ever were needed for a competition of sorts.
Many of these comments confuse improving vertical jump by improving technique with training vertical jump once technique is learned. The percentage increase in strength induced, after good technique is learned, by strength training is an order of magnitude greater than the percentage increase in vertical jump induced, after the best technique is learned, by training. This difference is the point Rip is making. "Improving technique" is what Rip would call "practice" of a particular skill, not "training".
Is a vertcal jump of 19.5inches good for a 5.8male
Hell yeah, brother, keep grinding
I don't it's a stupid question if the person is learning proper form in the novice stage.
What's this with the svj, surely body composition takes a huge part of how high you will jump. A good 70feet shot putter or a 220feet discus thrower weighs about 300 lbs and more. They could'nt jump for their dear lives, compared to an easy guy, but no one could deny that they are VERY explosive...
Will negative reps bring muscle power production up to max potential?
So does a 36 vertical jump mean you will be the best person in what ever sport you do, boxing, weightlifting or powerlifting? Or doesn't it matter because you can always get stronger?
I think he’s saying the ability to call on all those muscles at once for a greater outcome is the key and he’s just using vertical jump as the example. Correct being able to have a 33” vert won’t give you an advantage in boxing like it would in Football or basketball. But the person that has that 33” can use the same focus needed for that jump in other ways. Does that make sense?
All else being equal*
@@rambosaurusrex449 being an explosive athlete will certainly make every bit of difference in boxing as other sports. I've been punched harder by a 160lb guy with very fast hands than the 210lb guy who's pretty damn strong. Power also makes you quicker on your feet. As for me, I'm not very explosive, but I've gotten quicker after getting my squat from 125 to 380 for 3 sets of 5.
freneticfanatic I’m not saying that it wouldn’t help I’m using boxing as a specific example to a specific test. A 215 lb boxer won’t have the same vert as a 215 lb nba player, but an nba player probably can’t hit as hard as a boxer. That what I meant, your vert just basically determines your explosiveness and not the force you put behind it
@@freneticfanatic what's your vertical jump? Mine is 18" am 32 6ft2 and struggling to squat over 100kg, I just put it down to am genetically ment to be a girl 😂
The truth ❤. Appreciate it
What if someone loses like sixty pounds? Would this person's vertical jump go up?
Look at the guys with 600 pound squats lmao. Go check out the oly lifters and power lifters. Their verts are around 28-36. That is after squatting 600 pounds lmao. focus on jump squatting with dumbells for much better results with power cleans and move fast af. The weight needs to move fast as possible
So we can train the CNS to recruit more muscle fibers for maximal force production but not train it to increase speed of muscle fiber recruitment? Why?
sounds like the speed of signal transmission along the CNS cannot be improved. At least not by using weights.
If you are overweight from body fat and you get down to healthy weight.. your vertical will go up a decent amount.
With a 17” vertical jump, I gave up on power cleans when I capped at 155 lbs. Still squat at 375 and pull over 400. Explosivity just isn’t in my cards but strength is, I guess.
It’s still important to train, especially as you age
Bro, you deadlift four plates but can’t power-clean over 155? What the hell…
@@beebrian1944 tell me about it bro - shit makes no sense
Genetics may well be the thing that determines vertical jump but your explanation is way off.
The thing that makes someone jump high is not actually power (although they are related) it is actually the kinetic energy they have when they leave the, ground (1/2mv2). For a constant mass we therefore care about take off velocity.
In order to maximise take off velocity we need to maximise the change in momentum before they leave the ground (momentum = mv). This is called the impulse of the force (force x time).
This is also the thing that determines the ‘harness’ of someone hitting you (force = change in momentum / time to slow down). This is why car manufacturers try and slow down the collision time (increase t in equation) by making the car crumple. The longer the time to slow down, the lower the impact force. But clearly the total change in kinetic energy is unaffected.
power is more appropriately described as the rate of change of energy.
You got it wrong when you confused the everyday layman use of the power and its basis in physics.
Hes not wrong. Both work, All you did was reformulate it. Talking in terms of power makes just as much sense because it takes more power to accelerate a mass at a faster rate
then if we cannot train for power, why train the power clean?
I know people who squat 500+ pounds, but can barely touch net. You gotta move the weight explosively
That was a great question. I learned all kinds of things that i didn't know. You answered it beautifully, so why insult the question. We are out here for decadeson our own, trying to figure things out, and a goid teacher shows up, but turns a lot of people off. Why even teach?. Was there something else said?
Where did "dancing around on an unstable ball" come from? The question was about training power.
How does this apply to punching power for boxers? If I increase my squat, deadlift, and bench, will my punches hurt more in the boxing ring?
Yes.
Tyson, Marciano, Shavers, Foreman, Hearns - see a pattern here?
@@johnbackos5192 I thought Tyson never lifted weights?
@@l.d.m.33 he said he did. Maybe not in the early stages of his career though.
If it involves the kinetic chain then yes👍
if the theoretical lifter who has had his squat go from 155 to 450 puts on 50+ pounds of body weight. While still at the same time, having his vertical jump stay the same hasn't he improved his vertical jump power output. However now, he is pushing against a larger load making it stay the same or not change much in overall performance . There is a larger load due to the increase in body weight. If said athletes removes much of the fat that he has while maintaining his strength I wonder how much an improvement can be made?
Dang life isn't fair. Sigh. I have crap genetics but train anyways!
My vertical jump is normal but my broad jump is 2'7m. Does that mean something at all?
2,7 standing long jump is a different thing for a 6'6" person than it is for a 5' person.
Young athletes: I wouldn't advise listening to this guy until your at least a teenager
Mark I respect you for all you have done in the strength world. Have learned a lot from your teachings.
However, on the vertical jump / speed potential comments you are incorrect sir. I am a sprint coach and we make athletes faster and jump higher all the time.
You are right that decent athletes plateau between 20-24 inches and usually stay there.
The way to make big gains from this point is by training the nervous system and building elasticity in the ankles/ knees/ hips/ shoulders.
Just ask any teen doing a serious jump / dunk program for basketball- these kids regularly add 10-15 inches to their vertical
jump. There are many young players who literally document their progress from 20 inches to 35 inches + (RUclips).
I know where you are coming from though, as the field of sprinting/ jumping power is very complicated and different than strength development. It is true that the potential for improvement is dependent on genetics - but anyone can improve if they know what they are doing.
Improving sprinting mechanics is similar to improving your lifting mechanics- you become more efficient at delivering force to the ground so you become faster. Again this is very complicated and is perhaps why you tell people to not bother trying. All they have to do is seek out a track coach. If they go in with high levels of strength and mobility- they will improve quickly under a qualified sprint coach.
Thank you for this. I am training for strength now but I have always found sprint fascinating. I'll try training track at some point.
No holding back, but I agree 100
I wish this would have been known by me about 14 years ago. That was when my placement was based on a vertical jump that I could NEVER improve. I practiced as instructed and only moved up 2”. And...even though I smoked every other exercise this inability to jump gave me a zero. STUPID!!! I’ve had to suffer as a result of false understanding. Thanks Rip for validating my apparently crappy genetics.
People do improve though. Genetics decide the ceiling and potential for improvement. So yeah genetics play an important part but Rip taking it to the other extreme isn't completely right either. A lot of the 'muscle recruitment' everyone likes to talk about without really understanding it occurs at the central nervous level and you can improve that as well (of course genetics play a part there too), plus the vertical jump is also heavily dependent on technique so any bad technique could be a substantial mechanical disadvantage.
@@cabal4171 truee
I actually said I improved, just not much. I was at my max potential yet was not enough for the evaluators who had similar ideas as you. Not everyone can improve to what you think is possible. I’m limited in that way but, I have other skills as well. I have a feeling there is some research that is behind this that is just not being documented.
@@usfaaartillerist You can actually improve speed/quickness my reducing weight. There is some science regarding assisted speed training, which seems to support this. But it takes lots of practice and repetitions
I think you need to make a segment where you answer a question that's in the book. Very good and make a big deal of it, humiliating. Maybe people will read the book?
This sentence structure prolapsed my anus.
has anyone here seen Tom Brady run by any chance? ill bet his doesnt have a 24 inch v jump haha.
Bill Burr had a bit about Tom Brady attempting to tackle someone on a return after an interception. He said that Brady's "tackling" looked more like someone had flung a dead body out of a moving car.
@@soakingbook Old Billy boy!
What about basketball players who have 40" verts. Tall lankey not too powerfull by any means basketball players. I think speed is a better indicator of power, like 40 yard dash speed.
Very few basketball players have a 40” vertical
@@charlesfisher3983 I think very few humans have a 40" vert but most ones that do are in the NBA. 40" vert will get a 6'8" guys' head above the rim...which alot of NBA guys are able to do being less than 6'8". Fairly common in NBA.
Power is an equation, it's the ability to show strength over distance in a given time. His point is that the muscle you can recruit is limited by genetics so if you want to increase power output you need to get stronger. The guy with the 40inch verticle is only more powerful if he's moving the same weight as the guy with the smaller verticle. So your comment is technically correct.
Colin Weller that’s a running vertical. We’re talking about standing verticals. Standing verts above 40 are extremely extremely rare
@@charlesfisher3983 do they measure the standing reach of the player including the plantar flexion of the ankle (not sure what term to use,but the movement that is like a standing calf raise)position before jumping?
This is why striking combat sport athletes must squat, bench at minimum.
Young athletes if you watch this video please understand Mark isn't the best authority on athletics. Do some research on Gregg Everett, Bret Contreras, Tony Gentilcore, Eric Cressey (heard he was good). Greg nuckols is also one that I really like.
How would you define "best authority"?
@@VegetoStevieD in this case, right to give orders on something or subject.
@@EfficientAthletics How do you define "right to", in this context?
@@VegetoStevieD Rip made a stellar program that will benefit almost any and every beginning trainee, but he isn't omniscient and certainly doesn't hold the kind of qualifications to be speaking as an expert in as many fields as he does.
Many(possibly all) of the people Jonathan named are people who have said qualifications. They can offer credible, verifiable proof to back up their statements. Many of these proofs are research papers they themselves contributed to. They are, without question, genuine experts in their given fields. In contrast to this, Mark oversteps his bounds at times and speaks from a place that is informed enough to sound convincing, but doesnt accurately reflect what the data says today.
@@Eli-el7mr Do any of these offer any kind of reliable evidence that SVJ can be significantly increased with any kind of training system?
If a peraon cannot significantly increase their vertical from weigh training, then volleyball, basketball players, and track athletes don't need to weight train.
Yeah I might have to disagree with that one
Ya it has probably been said 1053 times.
What one?
@@mkw3980 where he says you can't take a man with a 18" vert to a 24" vert.
@@daniel09dailey the statement implies the athlete isnt holding back or anything else like poor form at 18 inches...
I am pretty sarn strong and my vertical jump is quite pathetic. Maybe he is right on some level but I don't think when it comes to raw power.
To train for power what you need to do(with proper form and not overweighted) is(let's use bench for example)when you're pushing the weight up, you push it up as fast as you can, then slowly lower the weight and then push it back up as fast as you can. I can't stress form enough and not to overweight yourself when training for power. This method is used in every exercise. That's how you train for explosive power.
Kneesovertoesguy says vertical jump is trainable
Answer to the Universe = 1052
When u find a great man can be wrong
Any theacher: "There are no stupid questions"
Rip: *insert meme answer*
Here's the thing. So many people want to be a professional athlete that teams need to come up with a screening based on something that is not trainable(why, though?). It's stupid, but it's the way it is. Sports are complex (especially those sports that are games) and the complexity is so high that one single parameter is NOT that relevant. But since everyone is following the mainstream school of thinking nobody really pays the price for believing a stupid idea.
Think about it, if every runner shot himself in the foot, the play field would be evened out and nobody would notice that you actually run better with both of your feet...Until someone tries this unconventional approach.
Applying the analogy to the matter at hand: if coaches started to select athletes based on other things rather than the high vertical jump test, they would stop shooting themselves in the foot and recruit better people than they are now. If you selected athletes based on trainable skills only, you would be sore to be choosing only those who can wholeheartedly committ to the sport, and a committed low jumper will (probably?) accomplish more than a high jumper who thinks he can put in less effort because he's got the genetics. You really don't know until you put the idea to the test.
I don't disagree with Rip on much, but on this, I definitely do. Furthermore, while I agree that genetics do play their part in regard to power production, that's not to say that power can't improve exponentially, OR that genetics don't limit strength as well. SS is the probably the most perfect strength building program out there, but it's limited when it comes to athletic performance.
'improve exponentially'
brilliant.
I will tell you that you are under experienced, and under educated to comment.
@@everydaywarriors I'll give you that "improve exponentially" was hyperbolic, but you might want to chill on who you call "under educated" without asking some clarifying questions. Good try though.
Power = F*d/T - did you not listen to the clip? He said power can be improved by improving F (Force).
@@johnbackos5192 Yes, power can be improved by improving force, you don't need to watch the clip, you can decipher that through reason, or by reviewing your exercise physiology text book. My disagreement is in regard to the vertical jump (in his/your defense, I didn't specify this in my original comment). People can improve their vertical jump by quite a bit, arguably in spite of their genetics (see Knees Over Toes Guy, Paul Fabritz of PJF performance, etc.). And not always necessarily from just training power development, but also by improving the stretch shortening cycle of their muscles, or just by improving their jump technique. Good enough?
It is a program designed to increase strength so that you can take that to your sport. This is an absurd comment. It is not a sports specific program. Strength is a basic foundation of any and all sports and human activity.
What's Larry Wheels vertical jump?
probably 30++ as with most good powerlifters
@Ze TheGame My standing vertical is above 30inches and I never practice any jumping.
In the powerlifting world 30 inch jumps are common among the lower weight classes.
The major feature of nba players is height not jump, the latter of which they usually are not particularly good at.
Ze TheGame I don't think you understand. Tall has nothing to do with it. They subtract your standing reach from your verticle. It is merely 1 way of testing someone's potential at their given height and weight. It's not the be all end all. Powerlifting has fuckall to do with power except that when you lift somthing heavy you generate it. The sport should be called strength lifting as its irrelevant how fast you lift the weight.
@Ze TheGame I know you're not strong, I also know you have bizarre ideas precisely because you're not strong. What you completely miss though is that 40lbs of muscle, ie LBM, for someone taller in a year is very doable as rip has illustrated time and again. My goal as a coach ideally is to get people to a 500 squat in a year.
But it seems like years of no progress is what's going to make you realize the above, not words.
Normally I'd offer to coach you, but this is a shtposting account.
@Ze TheGame oh and by the way tall people have the square cube law to deal with, so they have jumping disadvantages.
If I can clean today what I could only deadlift a year wouldn't that already prove your point to be wrong? If my squat doubles or even triples and my bodyweight only goes up 30 or 40 pounds that would mean I would jump significantly higher. Very much like I can throw my previous deadlift weight up to my shoulders all of a sudden.
Wow
So literally all dancers that get known for their jumps are genetically power people! 🤗🕺🏼 I was called Michael jordan by my ballet teacher in contemporary Dance academy because I could jump double the length and land at the same beat on the music as my other male classmates that looked like dough-bag frogs squating around somewhere down below me trying to land in time of the beat ahead! 😂 Actually my ability to lift and jump above the others took me into SUNY purchase NYC because I stood out from the crowd when jumping in an audtion as well! They came runninf after the audition which they never do normally to the applicants and said: Just so You know, you are In, you Rock man!! 🚀
I love jumping, is just my Swedish Viking genetics I guess 🤷🏼♂️
Can improve vertical jump? Can't improve power? This guy loses me more every video
Bs 🤣🤣
elaborate.
Wouldn't speed and force off the ground be more important than the total height off the ground in a jump when assessing potential with power cleans? A lot of jumping high or far is fine tuning athletic skill. Look in Rugby, this guy Manu Tuilagi can't jump worth shit but he can pick up and dump a 350lb runner coming at him full tilt.
Provide sources
@Ze TheGame basically Rippetoes point in the video. If it's not clear, I'm of the opinion that Rippetoe is wrong.
@Ze TheGame Jumping is actually a pretty complex movement, merely fixing someone's coordination in execution helps him improve it. I would say that short 10-20m sprint accelerations are a better indicator of raw explosive power since the technical considerations are less and you're not fighting against gravity in the same way. I would venture on to bet that those same weightlifters would be deceptively explosive in short distance sprints. Btw power cleans are used by sprinters to increase explosive power; explosive power is used for jumping; hence power cleans do improve jumping ability- but so do squats, lunges, deadlifts etc.