A quick warning for Evapo-Rust users
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- Опубликовано: 7 сен 2024
- Here's a quick warning about a problem I had when using Evapo-Rust. Hopefully it will save somebody else making the same mistake.
Here's the link to Joe Pie's video on the same product.
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Here’s the rescue video. The etched lines were between 5 and 10 thou deep, and all came out with a light skim.
ruclips.net/video/5mgdkYpWnok/видео.htmlsi=aumGbeXlEaNbbaEJ
If you do not fully submerge in the fluid, the top layer interacts with the air. Follow the directions.
Thinking about it, it kind of makes sense - right at the boundary between air and liquid, you've got a ready supply of oxygen corroding the surface and a chemical agent actively removing the corrosion.
Normally with surface rust, it stops at the surface because the rust keeps the oxygen away (hence protective oxide layers). When you react it away like this though, oxygen once more has access to form new rust.
What I've done to prevent etching on large parts is to wrap paper towels soaked in evaporust around the part above the liquid level. Leave them extending below the level of the liquid so it will wick evaporust up the paper towel while soaking the part.
Brilliant idea!
This really works, Ive had to do it with larger pieces.
My comment exactly. This is what I've done with good results.
Cotton rags also work.
I can confirm the waterline issue. Even worse was an incident where I had hand planes on a shelf under my workbench that were in Lee Valley plane “socks”. I had a container of Evaporust that unbeknownst to me had a leak in it. I came back a day or so later and find that the soles of my planes were etched quite deeply with the knit pattern of the sock where the Evaporust leaked onto it. I decided that I had discovered a DIY way of making a corrugated plane sole.
Bad luck! I don’t suppose there was any way of rescuing them! Bummer!
I also found out about the Evapo-Rust waterline corrosion some years ago. I was trying to restore some old chain saw bars that were rusty. I was a plastic protective bar scabbard as a tank to soak the bars in. One bar was too long, & so when I pulled it out of the solution, I discovered that I now had an etched line across the steel. You can also use a small circulating pump to keep the entire surface of the object wet to prevent this from happening.
If this is truly the result of being half submerged, wouldn't the opposite side of the flywheel have the same etch pattern? I don't doubt your observation, But I would expect this damage in at least 2 places, not just all the way around one area.
Hi Joe, thanks for checking in. I did have similar damage further round the rim. I just picked out the worst one as it showed up better on camera.
Joe, you videos was very helpful also, hope things down in Austin are cooing off, we are going to get some nasty rain here in Orlando due to the Tropical storm coming in.....cheers, Paul
80 year old mine mech. Chased lots of cracks over the years. This sounds ridiculous to me. The crack was there I'm sure or is a bad casting flaw perhaps. You need to use crack checker, following directions. You will be surprised what you will discover in many critical parts
Good to know, i'll keep this in mind. i've got an old keller power hacksaw that has... a "small" amount... of rust that needs removing.
So the actual warning should be…. Make sure to follow directions, and have enough liquid to cover the part.
Yeah, but this is for people like me who didn’t spot that bit in the instructions!
My guess is that like many rust-convertor solutions, it probably contains certain percentage of Phosphoric acid, which will etch into ferric metals as well as clean the surface. Another thing that those rust-convertor solutions will do is totally destroy spring-steel particularly thin springs (ie; watch-springs, or case/latch springs) even if they're only submerged for a short period of time!
I didn’t know that about spring steel. One to bear in mind in the future. Thanks
Sorry to hear you ran into that problem. That kind of thing is why I bought 4 gallons of it when i was redoing one of my drill presses....you can also if you dont have enough volume, put it in a garbage bag and use that to reduce the volume you need. You may also have had better luck for the part that was out of the liquid to put paper towels over it to get the entire surface moist...then put a lid on the container to reduce evaporation/keep the fresh oxygen cycling past to a minimum. I also check my parts after 2-3 hrs...I have never had to leave anything in for half a day even for extreme rust. So you may have left it in too long as well. In any case thanks for sharing, as it is a good thing to keep in mind when people use stuff like evaporust.
I don't get it. The diagonal line looks like Weld Seam or where two ends are forged together. It looks like it etched a bit deep. I'm just saying that's what it "looks like". I'm not saying that's what it is.
Alternately, it looks like a defect. It cracked while in use or maybe like thermal shock or something. It' looks too "Neat" to be the result of acid etching ? Again.. To Me.
Exactly, Evaporust leaves an etched line if the part is not fully submerged. I learned this about the second time I ever used it!
Yeah sorry to blowup your theories, but your flywheel is cracked. Had nothing to do with a liquid rust remover. The rust remover simply exposed the crack so it was visible.
Exactly
The spokes go straight to the center. This pretty well guarantees that the casting will crack. As it cools from molten it shrinks, leading to internal stresses that cause cracking. A better design would actually allow the inner hub to twist very slightly inside the outer.
This is clearly a poor design for a cast part.
These are sand castings, the sand allows for the shrinkage. It’s a very common design for flywheels. The flywheel is definitely not cracked!
@@modellingmark oh my… you CLEARLY know NOTHING about cast or ductile iron manufacturing processes, do you.
@@hgj2019 He knows plenty, and since it's in his hands, he knows it's not cracked.
Thankyou for the heads up, this was very informative!!
I had this happen to a car flywheel using the Bilt Hamber equivalent. Same story, half submerged. Had to get it skimmed.
That’s a real downer! At least I can fix the flywheel myself.
I put a bunch of old icky hand tools and rusty machinery tools in a 5 gallon pail with evapo rust. I put a lid on it so i literally forgot about it. about 6 months later i realized oops. I opened the pail and everything was black. Winter was coming so i just left them in there and the following spiring everything was a light grey color and looking brand new.
I prefer citric acid for most jobs. But if I need extremely fast results I use muriatic.
But both of these will eat up the base metal as well if left in too long.
I use evapo-rust to darken the carbon steel in a Damascus knife blade! Works great!
It’s a brilliant product! This unexpected etching is the first time I’ve had a problem with it. Of course, not a problem once you know….
I am wondering if it would be good for looking at weld bead penetration on a polished test coupon? guess I will have to try....
You've never seen, nor owned, a Damascus blade. What you're talking about is just pattern-welded steel, not the same thing at all, unless you've found a source for Wootz. I have no respect for people who pretend those are the same thing.
Thanks for an excellent cautionary and educational video. Will fully submerge the item, got it.
Glad it was helpful!
This seems suspect. I've left rusted parts, including cast in evaporust for months at a time and never had anything like this happen. Always great results. In fact, I tried the same test with about a dozen different products and the only one that did any damage was an older rustoleum product that doesn't seem to be available now.
But did you leave part of the parts sticking out, or were they fully submerged? That's key, here.
@@TheEudaemonicPlague yes
I've been meaning to buy some for a couple of large knives I have (my father let them get rusty, then I got them after he died). Now I know how important having the metal fully submerged is.
I’m really glad that you’ve found this useful. Wrecking knives with sentimental value would be just awful!
I always put several layers of paper towel on the exposed part soaked in Evapo-rust. Don't have any problems
Thanks for posting this information.
I wonder why no one talks about Rust 911, which comes in a concentrated form and can be diluted up to 16:1. I have a gallon but have not had the time to try it out to see if I am satisfied with its performance. They do recommend a certain start point but if it works, it is cheaper than Evapo-Rust.
Never heard of Rust911. I’ll have a look for it.
Read the warning label on the Evaporust;
"WARNING! Do not use on metal objects"
Right as it started looked like a soak line to me, bummer that got you on that part. On the visible face as well I assume?
Yup! All three faces of the flywheel! The most visible part of the engine 🤦🏼♂️
1 litre of water,100 grams citric acid and 63 grams baking soda or 40grams washing soda or 30 grams Sodium Hydroxide(Caustic soda)and some dish soap
Citric acid plus baking soda makes sodium citrate and carbon dioxide. I don't know why people keep posting recipes for cleaners that neutralize themselves...
I've never used Evapo-Rust and have no idea what the _chemical_ make up of it is but to make a mark as bad as that it has to be fairly nasty yet anyone I have watched restoring rusty parts has not used gloves when immersing their hands in the liquid. I am *not* doubting your claim, just curious as to how the flywheel was mutilated like that. I have some rusty bits that need cleaning up and understandably I don't want to suffer the same fate.
I hope you can work the damage out of the restoration.
*Thank you* for the heads-up about this and for the video. 👍
You won't suffer any ill effects just as long as you fully submerge the parts being de-rusted.
Also, Evaporust is a chelating agent and pretty darn safe.
I saw a video the other day of someone making and testing a more afordable, as well as a reusable home-made variant that excells in everything evapo-rust does in almost every way. Maybe that would be of help here in the future?
Is that the same video StORM33 posted a link to ? It looks well worth a shot!
@@modellingmark look into EDTA and citric acid mixed until ph neutral. That works a bit slower than evaporust but cleans up rust without touching the base metal. Also very cheap if bought in bulk.
@@modellingmark I unfortunatly am unable to find any comment by that name. I'm afraid it might have been deleted due to policy regarding links.
Just in case that happened, the video is called "The Ultimate HOMEMADE Rust Remover (Better than EvapoRust)", posted by Beyond Ballistics
@@stijn2472it does seem to have disappeared which is odd. Thanks for posting the video title, it is the same one.
@@G3ML1NGZ For some odd reason your/this commment didn't show up neither unit now. And it was posted 18 hours before my reply...
Those lines don't intersect as the flywheel was in a liquid, I've never seen Evapo-Rust remove that amount of material off any metal I soaked in it. Also the line across the face isn't straight as it should be if it was a water line, I think @hughezzell10000 might be correct about a crack or a flaw in the material were the Evapo-Rust may have highlighted the Flaw. Just like Mana fluxing does.
The exact same thing happened to me. I no longer use Evapo-Rust.
Alright, so to add to the question about the part being half-out, it was resting at that angle, and the oxygen + Evapo-Rust = microscopic etching circuit? And submerging the part completely would prevent this? And additionally, if I had a metal plate that I wanted to play with, I could leave small pools of Evapo-Rust on it and the interface between the pools and oxygen would create neat patterns?
Certainly I’ve never had problems with fully submerged parts. I don’t know if you get the same effect with steel though, but worth a try if you’ve got a bit of scrap laying around.
good hint thanks
The evapo-rust solution and oxygen reaction.
I was going to ask: If the evaporust is etching, shouldn't that be a ridge line and not a valley?
@@Kevin-ht1ox it’s an etched line at the surface of the liquid. As KF suggests, it’s probably oxygen and the solution making a corrosive combination.
@@modellingmark how long did you soak this for?
The interface line between the metal part, the evaporust, atmospheric moisture and oxygen creates a microscopic electrochemical circuit that etches a line along the interface. This is a well known phenomenon.
Exactly!!@@kenpickett9317
😱😱 thanks for the heads up Mark didn't think it would do that . Bit of a blast from the past ,I used to be in touch with Kim " Man overboard Wingnut , " from the partworks forum . He sadly passed away two years Christmas.
@@steve1315 thanks Steve. Sorry to hear about Kim passing. He was a bit of a loose cannon at time, but good at heart.
Magniflux it. I thunkbit is cracked long ago.
Just bought some evapo about to see if it really works.
@@JackJones-o5g it’s a great product, just make sure your parts are fully submerged!
@@modellingmark yes I tried it and wow 😳 this stuff really really really work's great VIDEO
I've been using evaporust since I saw a few machinists and tool restorers use it. Does it have a shelf life? Because the first few times I used it (poured it in a tray, then into a glass jar) it worked great. I poured some fresh from the jug into a larger container for larger parts, and it didn't seem as effective. Like, every time I checked it, the rust was still there.
I honestly don’t know. I don’t think there is a shelf life quite of the pack. All I saw was they say it can be used multiple times but will lose its effectiveness after a while. FWIW, my issue was with a brand new bottle.
I had this exact same thing happen when I left a metal rod standing up in a glass of vinegar that I used to remove rust from things for a few months, it removed the metal and etched it a bit where it was fully submerged but it REALLY etched the metal right at the surface to the point it was half as thick there. I think it may have to do with oxygen being available right next to where the acid is actively removing oxidation
Evapo-Rust and vinegar are not the same, Vinegar is an acid while Evapo-Rust is Neutral alkaloid, vinegar will remove metal were the other won't.
@@alfredocuomo1546 Yeah I get that, I'm saying it might have to do with the interface between the rust remover and air
Would be worth doing a little test anyway
Had the same problem on a #7 plane. Does anyone know if this happens with steel as well, or just cast iron?
Good question, and I believe it will affect steel just as much, considering what's happening to cause the problem...oxygen getting to the metal, right at the intersection between air and Evapo-Rust. As a number of people pointed out, it's a failure to follow instructions.....
Exactly what the instructions say. Bummer that happened.
www.evapo-rust.com/info/EvapoRustTDS.pdf
@@Mikemenn true, but in the small print, next to a photo of a part only part submerged, and everywhere else they say it won’t harm uncorroded metal. I’m not knocking the product, it works brilliantly, but they could have given this detail a bit of a highlight!
@@modellingmark agreed. which why your warning video is nice to have. thx.
any one who uses the stuff enough eventually has this happen to them
put the object in a plastic bag , ad some evaporust and position the bag so that the object is covered by the evaporust everywhere. problem solved.
Great idea! I’ll remember that for next time!
I just wanted to say, that not only is it cracked. You have carbon inclusion in the flywheel
oh no.....that is some serious corrosion, I watched Joe Pie's video when it came out, thank you for your information.....Paul in Florida, USA
The amount of negativity and know-it-allism in the comments is astounding as always. This is a great tip and I appreciate it! The interaction with the air at the surface of the liquid must cause a very fast oxidizing process. You could add just a little weld to those spots and sand them flat. TIG would be ideal.
Thanks! I’ve now skimmed the wheel and it to about 7 or 8 thou to remove the marks. The flywheel is now perfect again!
In the plus side, all the comments, both positive and negative boost the video, so these people are still helping the video! There will be a video of the rescue soon.
Was the part cleaned with a cleaning solvent or solution prior to evaporust exposure?
No, it was put in dry. Just the dust wiped off.
I find I'm questioning your hypothesis.The lines dont join up on the 2 surfaces, did you have it on that angle in the partial soak? BTW, the only thing the TDS mentions that is remotely relevant is full immersion. Seems more likely it exposed those defects. I'm not being harsh, but I expect neither was Evaporust.
You could follow the etching marks around the flywheel, and there were similar lines further round the rim at the same angle which was the immersion line. I've had defects in casting before and they manifest as inclusions or holes which show up during machining. They don't look anything like the defects I've got.
That looks like a crack to me.
That's nasty. I knew you weren't supposed to leave stuff half out of the solution, but i thought it would just leave a stain, not etch a groove.
Given the right belt, you could definitely sand it out. The 3M 36 grit belt i use for removing scale and draft angle from castings would sand the run right off the when. 👹
I wasn’t bothered about a stain, that would polish straight off. I didn’t want to go too aggressive with a sanding belt and risk flat spots on the flywheel. It won’t be too difficult to skim it.
Could it be porosity?
No, definitely the Evapo-Rust immersion level. You can trace it all round the rim of the flywheel!
@@modellingmark Ok I see.
Porosity was my first suspicion and I still believe that is exactly what it is. A poor casting and the Evapo-Rust exposed it. I would expect to see much deeper "etching" over a greater area if it was chemically caused. 180 degrees around the flywheel should have a mirror etching if it is the Evapo-Rust.
That is not from evaporust.....thats from the chemical being used on a part with problems is more likely.
Instead of Evapo - rust exposing a crack in your flywheel you should be out trying to save your country. Now hurry up and remove my comment.
I’m saving the country one flywheel at a time 🤣🤣🤣