I go over Lightspeed in Naruto and which characters reach that tier of speed within the verse. Why Pain is so Strong: • Why Pain is so Strong Explaining Dojutsu!: • Explaining Dojutsu!
I think the Haku lightspeed statement just applies to how quickly he teleports from one mirror to another and not Haku's combat/reaction speed. Like if someone can teleport instantly from one position to another that teleport technically has infinite speed. But it's not logical to say that the person using the teleport has infinite speed themselves if that makes sense.
That makes sense but naruto was able to hit haku while he was going mirror to mirror. I think amped naruto is close to light speed in part 1 because of this
Its not teleportation but body flicker which is chakra amped movement speed. Its also referred to as Haku being reflected between mirrors but not actual teleportation
@@badassproductions4734 haku is not using any teleportation like flying raijin or sumn he's not using space time ninjutsu, just moving really fast using his ice mirrors
@@kobe-d6z not really cause 1 he strugles with the raikage even he s thousand of times stronger then v1 cloak kido who has a shitter cloak then naruto became 1000x times stronger and since naruto cloak > kidos cloak so at the bare minimum naruto kcm cloak would give him a 1000x amp in base and that naruto is around the raikage level which wouldn't make sense if he is lightspeed at the start of the series also haku could have just been holding back or as 6 said she needed to be mentally amped to use her fp like how naruto needs to be mentally aped to access his pt 1 power
@@sixfromtokyo here I give you a fun fact, everyone in Narutoverse are lightspeed, including kid Naruto, kid Sasuke and Haku. The reason why I'm saying this is becuz the inconsistancy of Naruto makes everybody lightspeed. Also if everyone lightspeed means that Baryon Naruto is faster than time and have infinite speed. 😎👍
@@sixfromtokyo also Kisame is faster than Raikage and Minato. Raikage is lightspeed, Minato outblitzed Raikage, Bee made Minato unable to reacted to him, yet Kisame outspeed Bee, means that Kisame is faster than Minato and Raikage. 😎👍
@@NYUSmanChannel villagers in Konoha could perceive and react to the 9 tails as well as Pain attacking the village so they lightspeed too. They could also react to Momo invasion
I hate when y'all (You, Seth, swag, etc.) Say "I'll make this quick as to not take up your time" -- homie the reason I'm here is for you to take up 30mins to 3hours+ of my time explaining things like this in depth. So stop NOT wasting my time. Educate me. Lol love your videos.
The thing about most anime/manga in general is that lightspeed is never consistent and honestly if everyone doesn't move at similar speeds it would make anyone at light super broken. Also, humans can barely really fathom lightspeed and its implications in short distances. Lastly, there is also an assumption generally that every beam or lightning attack moves at equivalent real word speeds which may or may not even be the case. Something even the authors may not have thought of.
@@jameswtlocs Yuyu Hakusho characters S class demons are lightspeed, Saint Seiya characters are also confired lightspeed the speed feats in Seiya are insane every gold saint and 7th sense awakened has light speed, Sailor Moon also lightspeed so there are many.
What I’ve been saying basically lightspeed in anime is not like lightspeed is real life. For example the n naruto we saying raikages ftl attack is ftl but that would mean in every punch their is a sonic boom and the blue light aura around his hand would be to slow to follow his actual hand
FACTS. THIS IS THE ONLY REAL ANSWER. Because the writer is not consistently doing theoretical physics every single time that they want to say someone is super fast, it's just not happening because they don't care that much. Anyone who is trying to seriously accurately compare anime speeds across different anime has kind of lost it a little and needs to take a step back
As somebody who is working on making a channel, your introduction is so solid as always. I really appreciate the way you practice things before you jump in the topic! Keep up the good work brother
I think most people have an easier time accepting Madara's Light Fang as truly being light speed is because it's one of the on justu that actually behaves like a beam of light
@@Kakashi01560 I've seen it once, and had to shut it down. I forgot the reason for the debate but he couldn't accept prime madara was weaker. AND DONT GET ME STARTED ON THATS ISTG
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My main argument these days is this: Characters in the war are capable of casually reacting to Darui's Laser Circus, despite it being described as a literal laser (amplified light). The Raikage is also faster than Darui's Circus which would put him just over light speed, bare minimum. The Raikage then goes on to get blitz by Naruto so hard that it reminded him of Minato's teleportation. Basic calc stacking and power scaling can get estimates as high as 1000's of FTL even before Six Paths. People will bring up arguments like Haku blitzing Kakashi, or the Light Fang seen as a monumental feat, but these can easily be argued against. Attacks can get way faster than what the element its made of. Shown by how attacks actually *do* get faster, and how fire ball attacks from Madara can blitz people way faster than lightning, and how part 1 Kakashi was able to casually dodge part one Sasuke's fireballs, yet Six Paths Sasuke's fireballs were actually relevant enough in the fight against Six Paths Naruto to use. All this means is that even light based attacks can increase in speed, and Madara's light fang was way faster than light, because it made light, *amplified* by *Six Paths chakra,* which would be way more potent and faster than naturally occurring light. I mean lets think of this logically. If Darui makes a chakra laser and Six Paths Madara makes a chakra laser, do people really think these 2 abilities will have the same level of speed and power? No. Because Madara (along with his chakra) is way faster and stronger, so his light based attacks can also be way faster and stronger. If that weren't true, and all his attacks were just as slow as anyone else using them, then they wouldn't be useful in a fight against people who can keep up with his physical speed, because the jutsu would be way too slow.
@@sherminatoranalysis3429 On top of this, laser circus doesn’t have to be light speed. Light doesn’t actually travel at light speed except in a vacuum, and laser circus also doesn’t move in a straight line, so it is doesn’t make sense from a physics standpoint to say laser circus moves at light speed. In addition, I would add that anime typically follows normal newtonian physics if anything at all, and the speed of light is just something borrowed from our world to give some reference of speed. Therefore, the speed of laser circus is something to be determined by the lore of Naruto: Shippuden alone due to the insignificance of statements and feats in Naruto on the Naruto: Shippuden world (do not assume all statements hold, the Naruto universe is full of inconsistencies, so what happened recently counts for more). I don’t have much more to say at this point, but I generally prefer an analysis of feats from an author standpoint than an in-universe standpoint.
Six’s content is honestly so underrated, he’s calm, completely objective, and makes sure he’s factually well versed before he says anything about a topic. Genuinely one of the best creators in this genre
I would've liked to hear more about how their light speed applies to combat. There's a huge difference between moving at light speed on a constant basis and fighting relative to normal human speed with light speed movements mixed in. The cooldown on Almighty Push and Obito's 5-minute thing both point towards the latter being the correct case. (Otherwise, Almighty Push would be quite weak and Obito would be way more broken.)
Haku is indeed light speed but only in his mirrors. The things naruto and sasuke reacted to was the needles or whenever haku stepped out of the mirrors
He reflects from them at light speed like when haku moved through them and stated Naruto appeared to be in slow motion but a chakra influenced Naruto was able to dodge said movement
Ngl I’ve been on the edge about subbing ever since I saw you on a swag video, this one really proves to Me that you can look at things objectively without bias. (All I’ve seen you talk about until now is biased arguments in vs). Great video, good scaling all around.
So I'll give my issue with the datebook, and that's mostly the stats just being provably wrong, like Part 1 Choji having more strength then Hiruzen, and prose like saying Sasuke is faster then anyone in the Akatsuki before even fighting Itachi. I don't think they should just be thrown out, but taken with some salt. Things like constantly talking about Lightspeed or how jutsu work are obviously not that though.
I think the stat bubbles are supposed to be considered as in relevance to peers. This interpretation would make a lot more sense since kid Naruto has a higher speed stat than Hiruzen and Neji has a higher Ninjutsu stat (in shippuden) than Naruto even after mastering Rasenshuriken. Additionally Choji's skills go down from child to adult so wouldn't make much sense otherwise. Not really relevant tho. As for the Sasuke statement we know 5 Kage Summit Sasuke should scale physically to Hebi Sasuke with the curse mark which should put him above a lot of the Akatasuki and he can then amp his speed even more with Raikiri. Just a few thoughts off the top of my head if you want to debunk me go ahead but I don't want to argue data books
@@akarilight6331 I mean I've heard the argument that the stats are on some kind of bell curve, but that just makes them worse since then we have no point of context. For Hebi Sasuke scaling to Summit Sasuke, I disagree but I won't argue it if you don't want. But even then he would eclipse Itachi or Pain who scale higher, and if we count Obito then it's just laughable.
Temari blows away the Universe according to the databook lol Shit like that is why you gotta extrapolate which is accurate to what's happening on panel and which is obvious incorrect translations or hype statements.
@@akarilight6331 If you have to use a different interpretation of a DATABOOK for it to make sense, then i think it is pretty safe to say that said databook is not reliable at all and shouldnt be used for these kind of discutions
"Oh the speed of light in Naruto is like 50mph btw guys" -the maniac writing naturo that tries to state that characters move at the speed of light but clearly do not move that fast. WeLl It SaYs It iN ThE bOoK! Clearly they do not considering the distance they travel and the time it takes them. Madera is not moving lightspeed in that attack, hes moving his head which moves the beam. If I hold a laser pointer that's turned on and flick my wrist, my hand is fucking moving light speed is it? The laser is, sure, yes. Not madera spinning his head on his neck.
I don't get why people take lightspeed attacks as meaning characters can move at lightspeed. Amaterasu appears when Itachi or Sasuke look at something, but it doesn't mean they can physically travel the distance in that time. The physical movements that launch these lightspeed techniques are slower and the characters are usually reacting to the physical movements, not the lightspeed thing itself. There is also the fact that something made of light does not necessarily need to move at the speed of light. After all, they would only be able to cause radiation damage if they were actually light. I think of these types of attacks like lightbulbs. They produce light and they may have a physical property, but they do not move at the speed of light until they are launched or possibly not ever, despite containing/producing light. Some, like Amaterasu also might be half the speed of light in a way too, since they may not be able to activate the technique until the user sees something, meaning the light must reach the users eye and then they send the lightspeed attack out, so light needs to go in both directions, doubling the time of the technique (plus the time it takes to concentrate and make the technique activate, since there does seem to be some delay on that, as the blood seems to be visible coming from their eye at the same time as the technique's activation)
the thing is with the madara jutsu it emits a beam of light from the mouth but he moves his mouth to swing at naruto so that technically dousnt mean it was a light - speed attack
The jutsu was aimed at Naruto's face, and *then* Madara swung his head after he saw Naruto dodged it. So he still dodged it. Otherwise, why would Madara be surprised that he dodged the actual attack?
It's not actually light, its more of an energy beam like a light saber. Light has no mass. The glow emitting from that beam is light but not the beam itself.
Even if Madara's attack is lightspeed doesn't mean Naruto is lightspeed since it is stated that Sage mode allows you to be able to essentially sense attacks and react before they happen. This is like saying since Spider-man can dodge attacks that are light speed means that Spider-man is light speed when his Spider Sense just warns him of the attack shortly before they happen.
Honestly I really like it when the characters in a verse are more..human, instead of being these planet busting beings that are essentially gods when compared to real people.
Yeah I think I always have that problem with the ending of shonen shows, I usually like the earlier situations where they had to deal with stuff that humbled them and reminds them how human they are
To summarize there's a bunch of light based or light speed attacks that on the surface lvl have some issue that can easily be explained and they can be explained without even bringing up calc stacking, how the statements support each other, narrative and can scale to be around the same time
It makes no sense for ninja's to be faster than light. Light can travel around the planet 1 and a half times in 1 second. you guys really think naruto can travel anywhere he wants to on the planet in the blink of an eye? That's what it means to be faster than light, and i know for a fact we all seen naruto even in KCM running around the battlefield for hella long before reaching his destination.
@@drrippy1 it can work. We see good examples of actual light speed in DC, Marvel, Dragon ball super, One Punch Man, where characters are travelling to other planets or across a galaxy within minutes. Saying that any ninja in naruto is Light speed is just ridiculous honestly.
I definitely agree with Light Speed being reached in Naruto, I definitely think Light speed is a hyperbolic thing in the Data Books up till the War arc. The only problem I have with some of these statements in the Data Books is that if all of these things are as fast as light that means all the attacks that catch someone who has dodged these said attacks or characters that surpass characters that have that every worthwhile character at the end of Part 1 up to now are all faster than light to some unquantifiable degree. Which just over complicates scaling and moves arguments away from the casuals to semi casuals who don't like to do Calculator breaking math equations in order to make an attempt at differentiating the speed scaling accurately between characters. That and if everyone that Surpasses a Full Power Haku is light speed, there's a lot of Lore issues with this as you have various jutsu and characters that have jutsu that ARENT stated to be light speed and such.
@@Trathien- no, Naruto casually dodges Sage Art: Storm Release Light Fang from Madara, which is straight up a beam of light. So Naruto and Sasuke are LS at that point and onwards
@@xvoidxhunter2129see that clip bro. Naruto dodged madara's nech movement not the actual fang. With a closer look u will find that madara aimed at the right side of naruto's neck and swung in order to cut it down. But naruto dodged it. It's not a ftl feat bro.
The databooks always felt so hyperbolic to me, and culturally the Japanese use a lot of hyperbole in promotional material. The thing is, it's hard to believe people like haku or itachi are light speed when they get tagged by attacks that are comfirmed slower than that, for example the sound ninja in the chunin exams. We know that haku in whatever emotional state he was in wasn't too fast for sasuke to track with an immature sharingan, and v0 naruto who knew like 1 jutsu clapped him, yet later Lee smacks up that same sasuke before the exams who can react to "light speed" yet he gets tagged by substantially slower sound jutsu. again hakus emotional state comes into play ig but I don't like scaling with non concrete amps or nerfs because those are unquantifyable, like if itachi was healthy or something it's basically a what if. So if haku gets smacked by v0 arc one naruto, how can they be lightspeed at this point if sasuke was gonna wipe out the new team 7 with a lightning speed attack? Unless I'm supposed to believe time skip naruto, sasuke, and yamato are weaker than haku, which I don't since once again he got his shit rocked by v0 naruto. and itachi may have been weakened and fatigued, but sasuke still refers to kirin as an attack that can't be dodged or evaded, if he's designed that calibre of attack for itachi, and he thinks it has even a chance of tagging him, how can lesser characters be light speed? Cause the databooks said so? They also say amatarasu is as hot as the sun when that's impossible bc when it's unleashed everyone within a 60 mile radius isn't immediatly turned to ash, and we see that naruto characters can easily get burned, so this hotter than the sun statement I feel is another example of hyperbole. Another thing is sound based genjutsu. How does anyone get caught in sound based genjutsu? It's slow compared to light and yet supposedly anyone stronger than arc 1 kakashi (who is complete ass tbh) is over lightspeed.
@@amangeldjanargul7120 so haku let himself and his master zabuza die for fun? If bros supposedly light speed, he'd be the only one in the first arc and should've been able to no diff everyone
"Slow compared to light" is a massive understatement. If you could move at the speed of light, a sound wave would be completely still in comparison. You could run hundreds of thousands of circles around your enemy before their sound waves ever hit you
10:23 this is also the case for Bleach power scaling we literally have kidos or attacks that are named after they're nature tho these elemental attacks can be faster than they're own nature its not just limited to they're nature but anyways we have literally ppl shooting lightning bolts or light based attacks like light beams etc as early as the first arc yet ppl sit here and tell me that stuff is just !massively hyper sonic or mach 14 or whatever I can't stand this and the worst part of all is that they tell us prove that's actually light and prove that light in Bleach works how actual light is supposed to in real life...the appeals to reality gives me such a rage equivalent to Kratos or Ashura from Ashuras wrath or even Guts
You should reread that sentence and configure in your head a way to either articulate your point different or delete the comment due to it being stupid
@@calmrage8626 I think this guy's referring to the difference between travel speed and reaction speed, saying that if for example, you run at the speed of light doesn't mean you can react to light speed attacks or something like that. I don't really see the point of this statement though since like 99% of the time, a character's reaction speed will be equal to or higher than their travel speed because otherwise, they would just crash into stuff and wouldn't know when to stop.
@@DemonicAppetite1120 well all these examles were specific attacks not normal movement speed related. ANd we know from the chidori ninjutsu can allow you to move way faster than you normally can and require the sharigan to properly react with. So it could maybe be argued to be the case until like op war arc characters.
@@calmrage8626 no, the body flicker is a perfect example of this. The body flicker allows you to move fast, but shisui is one of the only people who can react while preforming the body flicker technique
This is why minato is referred to as the yellow flash. He can dodge something moving extremely fast when its is like .5 centimeters away from his face and teleport like 30 meters away instantaneously 🤣 they was shook
pain's 5 second timer puts a massive hole in lightspeed movement, 5 seconds is an eternity in terms of lightspeed, shinra tensei is useless if naruto characters are lightspeed. and shinra tensei is demonstrably not useless, its in fact a massive wall that seems almost insurmountable in the pain arc. for another example theres the heavenly transfer technique, which mabui used to transport both tsunade and the raikage to the battlefield. this technique is explicitly lightspeed and is noted for being to dangerous for the normal ninja to use as transport as their bodies couldn't handle the speed and would be destroyed. this is relevant because to claim character like itachi, haku and kakashi are lightspeed you have to scale them off of raikage's durability with his lighting armor because they lack tsunade's regen.
Haku at least has their own specific jutsu they use to reach light speed, that being the ice mirrors, and while they're considered fast during the land of waves arc it's reasonable to interpret that they aren't capable of going as fast without the mirrors as they can with them.
Yea they're not light speed even Black Zetsu claimed the reason Kirin can't be evaded was because it was real lightning that's faster than the speed of sound.
ok lets ignore light speed my guy what about lightning speed don't u think the same logic would apply if the char are 10 x of 100x of times faster then lightning ? also if the raikage is faster then light then pain who scales above the raikage is also faster then light so he can keep dodging until he can use it again .
I only believe Naruto dodging the light fang isn't a speed of light feat because you can say that while in six paths sage mode he could sense his chakra concentrating in one place ready to fire out an attack so he had a bigger gap of time to react. Similarly to how Obito dodged amaterasu by seeing sasuke's chakra concentrate in his eye with the sharingan.
No character is actually light speed in the sense that they don’t constantly travel at that speed. At their peak speed they are light but because they have to load up and then burst into that speed makes them by definition not light speed
You forgot about the lightspeed transportation used to transport the raikage and tsunade to the battlefield. Madara reacted to their attack while they were still affected by the lightspeed properties. Everything else was good though.
Saying that something is "lightspeed" or "moves at the speed of light" is usually just a hyperbolic way of saying it's really, really fast, nearly instantaneous. There are only a few examples of genuine "speed of light" achievements in Naruto. For example, Madara's Light Fang does indeed move at the speed of light, but all Naruto had to do was sense it and dodge Madara's head turn. Speaking of examples, I'm surprised you didn't mention Minato's Flying Thunder God technique, which is probably another genuinely lightspeed example.
The way I see it, there is no literal shown evidence of lightspeed in Naruto, and there are multiple static time qualifiers, such as Deva Path having a 5 second cooldown, which, vs. characters who should be lightspeed, would allow for many hundreds of thousands of attacks, means that lightspeed, and even consistent soundspeed is nonsense. As for the Sound Genin, I'm not sure why we all gladly accept that Raiton is not lightning speed, but that all Sound Jutsu must be sound speed. I see no reason why chakra-created or chakra-manipulated sound shouldn't be slower than sound, just as Raiton is slower than lightning.
Nice video man And I actually knew about the fuu and kabuto ones already and was suprised someone actually brought them up for once lmao Really trying to be informative ( which I like )
It's still pretty wild to me how people can show so many examples in 1 video of how whack the databooks are and STILL unironically try to use them as a reliable source, if you use the databooks as an actual source then literally everyone is, or at the very least, can achieve/react to lightspeed, end of discution, but then everything would be pointless, since if everyone is lightspeed but they are still shown to be faster than others, well, you're back at square one But anyhow, the databooks are 1; not even made by the author, and 2; obviously made in a hyperbolic way to hype shit up If you have to "prove" that a DATABOOK "actually totally makes sense if you interpret it in a certain way", then it is pretty safe to say that said databook is not at all a reliable source
the databooks are made by the author and how are the statements hyperbolic when they are backed up by the things we see in the show for example the whole point of kabuto attack is that it creates a powerful light that blinds your enemy after the dragon warps around the sphere so it makes perfect sense for the dragon to be made out of light
@@danielsemakula1526 late reply but there are few examples i remember: 1. Temari is universal(lol) 2. No enemy stands a chance against temari's fierce wind attacks. If temari is really this strong then she would have ended war arc berself soloing madara or even kaguya with just her wind 3.sakura caught up to naruto and sasuke in war arc. 4.raikage being light speed. Here point 4 is controversial but do believe raikage isn't lightspeed or even close to it. The reason- in manga raikage travelled through a country in few seconds. Even though its fast but its still not lightspeed as light can travel around the world about 7-8 times in just a second, that is if we assume naruto worls being as big as our planet
@@danielsemakula1526 using these points it is pretty obvious that databooks are just for reference purpose and to hype up characters, basically like pokedex in pokemon. Lots of things are exaggerated. So it makes no sense to be used as a method of power scaling
I think a few select characters are lightspeed pre war arc but they also usually lack in other departments, like Haku might be lightspeed but can't even attack hard enough to hurt pre 1 tail cloak, not even jonin level Naruto. The war arc is when characters get more consistently into light speed, the raikage, Naruto's chakra modes, other characters scaling from him or scaling from Kakashi who as a kid could chop lightning, etc.
I thought the haku mirror light speed ment inside the mirrors he can move between them at light speed, but when he moves in the real world where he's able to attack he is back down to at about sound speed which in a small close range encounter would be nearly impossible to perceive by a human.
I have some questions Can Momoshiki absorb Gudodama? Can Isshiki shrunk ETSB? Can Momoshiki absorb long range Kamui and Kamui Shuriken? Can Hidan's ritual kill Daemon? I don't say that Hidan would beat him but will the ritual work on Daemon? Can Sasori's poison kill Daemon? Because Sasori is a puppet and he's immune to poison.
@@Glitch1125 I don't think he can absorb the shurikens. His hand would get warped away. For Hidan's ritual, I personally believe that it would work because any damage Hidan took will be reflected back at his opponent. Even if Daemon reflects the effects, since Hidan is still in the symbol, it will be reflected back to Daemon. This feels like Haschwalth vs Ishida from Bleach. Both opponent reversing each others.
@@xtensioncordtv1969 if his whole body is phasing, then it shouldn't, since his actual body isn't even in the same dimension . I would think Momo can absorb planetary devastation, but not the gravity manipulation, like almighty push, since ur manipulating the gravity, not creating anything new. Same way he wouldn't be able to absorb kirin, since it's not chakra
@@juub5171 No just that Naruto scales way above Luffy, or at least as much as I can remember of Luffy’s feats, you only really go all the way through One Piece once. Luffy roughly scales to Kaido in power, who is capable of some pretty insane stuff, like wiping out cities and potentially one shotting islands. But… Adult base Naruto at half power was trading blows with Momoshiki, who is equal to or greater than Kaguya, who was capable of wiping out one of her demensions that contained multiple planets and a star (possibly more). If the difference isn’t obvious I’ll simplify: Luffy is island level Naruto is a Solar System buster
I do believe Naruto is faster than light, but my problem is when people say that he's mftl+ when he dodged Madara's like beam thingy. That feat in particular is not that fast. The same people say Luffy isn't light speed because he aim dodges due to his precognition known as observation haki but don't treat Naruto's precog know as danger sense in the same manner.
No he isn’t faster than light. Main reason u can see bc of light. So if u r faster than light u r technically able to travel to the future. And if u react with more than light speed then u can’t see the present but the past. Also not to forget all the objects in the background falling to earth gravity which r moving relatively to the character. The objects should be sooooo slow that there should be to small than zero movement. But objects fall too fast and therefore the gravity of their planet should be a big chunk of light speed. And do u know what this implies? The concept of a normal human being able to even move is impossible Or anything existing at all. Even the aliens would die if put a step on this planet. Reason for this is they r influenced by little force. While the gravity we will have there would the stronger than Saitamas one punch. This whole concept of LS is bs in the first place. And if they want to play at LS. Just leave it at LS but don’t add more. There r more than other options to scale speed and flex with it. We can for sure say that Naruto and our worlds difference is the amount of number Pi has. would love if a physician goes there and erase it from existence.
Everything was ok. And he can even dodge light it’s ok. But putting the sentence that Naruto is faster than Light there turned the world upside down. Instead we could have just said Madaras light attack or Delta‘s laser was not near LS.
Hey I wanted to ask a question not related to this video: when people bring up Minato’s fight against Obito during nine tails attack, they don’t mention that Minato was trying to prevent nine tails from escaping when Kushina was giving birth which means he was already exhausted even before Obito initiated the attack but I don’t know why nobody brings this up.
He had experience with reading Uchiha men's lips, after accidentally making out with sasuke, and he knows now how to avoid that happening again at all cost
Every character in Naruto is light speed but struggles to even evade speed of sound attacks in most occasions pretty solid feats to argue about in my opinion
I assume ur referring to sage Kabuto and his sound jutsu I don't understand why it's such a hard concept to grasp that chakra amps jutsu to be faster Like not all lighting jutsu is locked at lightning speed
Any light speed in just about any show would effectively make power scaling impossible. Even getting close to light speed would require a similar amount of energy as a solar flare, which is an order of magnitude above the amount of energy the earth receives from the sun each year. Anything at or above light speed would completely violate physical laws, and would then require and entire new set of calculations for the universe in question, negating any calculations for said universe using our own equations for force and energy.
@@vinno5901 uhhh yeah dude kind of the point. Power scaling doesn’t make any sense in a fictional universe because there’s a breakdown in physical laws at a certain point.
@@Gusto3791 It makes sense when you stop trying to apply real world physics where it obviously does not fit. The laws and constants that govern our reality won't govern all realities ( *some* may coincide, but not *all* will). This is exactly why videogames play so differently from real life. A reality will function under the rules and laws given to it. Games function and operate under the laws and mechanics coded into them by the developers, and fiction functions and operates under the laws and mechanics written into it by the writers. That's what physics is (by definition). The study of the properties and behaviors of matter and energy. In a different universe with different rules and properties, they will behave differently. You could literally just say that the laws of thermodynamics and conservation of energy function differently in Naruto, and it would make sense.
the thing about "light speed" is that light is tied to a constant: C. C = 670, 616, 629 mph in our universe, but it could be a different number in Naruto. so Haku going "light speed", Itachi's water bullets going "light speed", et cetera; it could be going at our speed of light, while their C is much faster. make sense?
Feel like scalers need to look more into casual consistent feats instead of rare highball feats. Honestly some naruto characters are above lightspeed it’s just the power scaling that’s inconsistent because of the contradictions
So here is my problem with light speed claims in Naruto. Hard light constructs being manipulated by a person cannot be assumed to be light speed. Similarly, you spoke about the word "beam" being defined as light. My issue is that definitions change depending on source and context. "Beam" is commonly used to describe generic cylindrical, light emitting objects like laser beams (which are generally not light speed attacks across most media). The data book statements relating too Haku and the Raikage/Killer Bee seem to just be hype. The data books like to use more "scientific" verbiage as opposed to other media that use hype phrases like "devine power" or similar. Finally, the "consistency" of FTL statements fall apart when you start comparing them. 6 paths KCM Naruto is stupidly faster than 4th Raikage, who the databook compares to light speed. Well Naruto had minor precognition, the Sage Art Light Fang had a big telegraph, and Naruto still almost got hit by it. If you want to argue the SALF is Lightspeed, then this is an antifeat for Naruto and he is relativistic AT BEST, if not slower. That means Raikage can't be anywhere near Lightspeed. If you want to argue that the SALF is FTL, the it can't be considered "light" anymore for obvious reasons, it's paradoxical. While the statements individually appear to be consistent, when all are taken at face value they cannot co-exist without contradicting each other. In addition, anyone who wants to calc stack, you can't. There is no clear power multipliers in Naruto. Sure you can calc stack Chakra levels, but there is no way of knowing or calculating the diminishing returns associated with the physical buffs from Chakra. I'm not even going to get onto the movement speed argument. So those are my unaddressed concerns. Anyone want to have a friendly conversation about it?
I feel that's with any anime and power scaling we have to keep in mind these creatirs don't make these fights for us to debate who is stronger. So those type of inconsistencies will always show.
I haven't read all yet but I'll start with the first 2. 1. Why can't they be assumed to be light speed? Unless we have reason to believe that they aren't the base assumption would be that they are. At best you could argue light properties and change in velocity due to refraction. But the highest refractive index known is 2.42, which would still make the attacks relative to light at bare minimum by calculations. I also don't know what you mean by "hard light constructs", but there are also light based attacks that *aren't* constructs and are not being manipulated. They are just actual bright lights. 2. The context is talking about light beams. So we already know what the context is.
About the Naruto feat u do realize that Naruto didn’t see the attack coming and it was also directly infront of his face not to mention that he had to move his body body because Madara swung his head in a direction where he could just move his head to the side a bit and he was also being held down by a limbo clone
The reason Naruto dodged the Light fang was because of Sage Mode's ability to sense a threat before it even arrives. And Raikage was stated to be "almost" light speed
Can you concretely prove they’re hype or you just making a baseless claim. Jutsu amplify strength, speed, and attacks as we’ve seen. The attacks could be highly amplified as far as we know. We do have confirmed multipliers for some things and just like scientists can make inferences
sasuke reacted to haku (who was reflecting from mirror to mirror) and dodge lightspeed haku. Also haku attacked naruto from one of the shards of the mirror and naruto dodged it. In order for haku to even go lightspeed and reflect off of the mirrors, he would have to be turned into light, or he couldn't reflect (more evidence on lightspeed) since thats the case, any attack or movement from haku, coming from the mirrors, would in fact have to be lightspeed. thats basic physics. When naruto grabbed haku, he was going for a mirror (granted) but considering the evidence, Naruto and sasuke were lightspeed here due to sasuke seeing haku move, dodging his attacks (he would have to be lightspeed or relative to even dodge physically. same with naruto.
Not exactly, for haku isn't light speed, because light in Naruto isn't as fast as real light, and I'll prove it to you with an quick example. The distance between the moon and earth is huge, you could fit around 30 Earth's between the two, and a laser can reach the moon in under 2 seconds. For someone to actually be light speed they'd have to be able to lap the earth at least 30 times in under 2 seconds. No one in Naruto can do that, meaning light in Naruto is WAY slower than light in real life meaning that any "light speed" feat in Naruto isn't valid. Haku was reflecting off at the speed of a light far slower than actual light, so either haku wasn't and is the fastest person in all of Naruto history (since no one else can move at an actual light speed) or haku was just moving at the speed light travels in Naruto which isn't a valid light speed.
@@waifuislaifu8791 then haku is the fastest person in Naruto, no questions asked. Unless as I said light moves slower in Naruto than in reality which I've proven it does.
@𝕿𝖍𝖆𝖙_𝕺𝖓𝖊_𝕲𝖚𝖞T.O.G. cap naruto is way faster and becomes faster even as a child before shippuden due to scaling. Sasuke would have to be relative or equal in speed to a ninetailed amped naruto. He'll it's casual in shippuden to be multiple times faster than light for low tiers. Ez
My perspective on the matter is that logistically it isn't feasible but narratively I can accept that the story is literally telling me what is happening. I think it's stupid that a lot of fictional characters can move at light speed, but if they can, then they can and no argument made against it would disprove literal statements that communicate such. Though I wouldn't count databooks as solid evidence since I generally operate on the idea that what is presented within the story is what should be factored in when it comes to critiquing it, since that's what is in the execution and not everyone is going to be aware of or have access to these external sources of material. So yeah, light speed feats are stupid, and logistically improbable but that doesn't mean they aren't happening.
Agree with everything and I don't mean to cause an argument but databooks are solid evidence & in some cases to they are more valid than the anime & manga as they go into depth about jutsu, characters, characters ninjutsu level, strength etc. It's just that some ppl misunderstand it sometimes.
@@Rck-vert Yeah I mean they work for argumentation. But from a writing perspective, I don't accept a lot of retroactive information when discussing stories. My perspective is that anything pertaining to the story should be within the story, otherwise it's too easy to retroactively change a work to be better in hindsight than in actual execution. I apply that same logic to every facet of media consumption. But I also don't generally participate in power level debates since they aren't often particularly relevant to the story.
from what i can see on panel/screen i came to the conclusion that light speed attacks do happen but the characters do not move at the speed of light. Being able to dodge a light speed attack does not make one light speed. I for instance could dodge a laser pointer aimed at me by a friend which no one would argue is not light speed but i defiantly do not move at the speed of light lol. You simply have to watch the direction and movements to see where its pointed and when it gets switched on. Same logic applies to many of the light speed feats in Naruto. The naruto ninjas defiantly exceed lightning speed however as proven by kakashi cutting a bolt in half...and some characters maybe even a couple of dozen percentage of light speed ..but from whet we see and narratively what occurs lightspeed does not seem to fit.
Kakashis eyes can see things moving faster than he can move. They allow him to predict* his opponent, and it doesn't really matter cuz u can block things moving fast with proper timeing. Not arguing that he isn't just that he doesn't have to be, he would need to casually need to be at least 10% to block light speed
Personally i hate with a passion when character supposedly can move at light speed. Because common sense would dictate, then how tf do you ever take any damage unless it's a sucker punch. That's where you get a bunch of long stories where character so and so was "holding back" when there's absolutely no realistic reason for said character to hold back. It would take nothing from the (Naruto) story to not have these characters traveling at the speed of light. Just say they move really fast
The only "Light speed" feat is Naruto "Dodging" Madara's light fang. And we know that is Bullshit. Naruto's So6p sensed Madara gathering Chakra and dodged his neck speed. As you can see in the anime, Naruto tilts his head left before the Light fang and Madara Tries to follow it, resulting in Naruto's Staff being cut in half.
kishimito never cared about lightspeed etc and scaling with other verses. its fiction. he can write anything. he can write next manga that everyone is universe level and we cant say shit because it will be canon if he writes it.
I would personally say that dodging a light-based attack isn't the same as moving at the speed of light. You have reactions much faster than your speed, and dodging a beam of light, while fast and impressive, isn't the same as propelling your whole body alongside a beam of light.
@@joecota2644 moving out of the way of something, which is the same thing dodging means for everyone? Look, I know what you're going to say, and dodging isn't necessarily, "Oh shit, laser beam," and moving out of the way. You could see the preparation for the attack and get a read on where it's going. A lot of the feats aren't necessarily light speed, but are at least relative. I really am just being critical of the arguments, and you can agree or disagree.
Can you do a vid focused around Sage Kabuto? He's a really strong character who no one ever really talks about and I just had a debate of a Prime unsick Itachi vs Sage Kabuto and honestly I don't really know who won it and can't find any good videos stating who could win
but nothing goes faster than light speed so it must be a pretty even playing field except for flying rajin which is teleporting. also, everybody wud be lighting on fire from air fiction and there wud be sonic booms everywhere. going faster than light means they cud kind of time travel too which makes me think of izanagi and how the uchiha can redo their own death.
if kcm naruto had a clone, the clone cud start running around the fight faster than light while watching. if something happens to naruto the clone cud go back to naruto and naruto wud know the future. this is possible because time is moving much slower for someone going lightspeed or faster.
Yeah good points however Naruto can't use clones as no human in the world can make clones so it should be impossible for any characters in fiction to make clones as well
@@aureus5586 ik ik. i dont beleive in chakras either.i was gonna add on more too but its kinda funny to push it to the limit cuz i hear scalers often mention things like "this energy beam seems to have the properties of light so we'll say its going light speed", "the kamehameha is a plasma" or "since jurobo cud throw a giant chouji his arms must be x durable". i like to highlight how ridiculous stuff can get and its just fun to think of. ps-i was also thinking how can i apply this time travel stuff izanagi somehow. pss- shoutout to the theorizer's channel and his ratatouille videos
"It depends on if you accept the novels as canon" Imagine even giving anyone that branch. The novels are canon. They're on the Kishimoto released timeline for the Boruto movie promotional material. Which he was the head of. 2nd Haku is lightspeed. It's not just possible he's doing during the fight. The official anime meaning the people who could most accurately convey the context of the prime material. Just flat out have Haku stating, "transporting myself at lightspeed." People try to deny it or shift the mechanics of the jutsu."It's only when he appears through the mirror." But then Naruto does the shadow clone barrage. And we're shown everything Haku states in real time in both the Manga and Anime. In which Naruto to Haku appears to almost be in stopped time. As he transports himself. People try to use Sasuke stopping Haku as some sort of last stand. But we were never even shown how Sasuke did it. In the anime we saw he amped himself then jumped. But when Haku explains to Naruto what he did. The anime has a non canon scene where Haku gets him in the heart, and then Sasuke intercepts him and throws him into one of the mirrors. Thus he's on the ground when Naruto wakes up. Whereas Kishimoto left it ambiguous. All I can say is Sasuke countered haku at lightspeed. They basically dumbed down his explanation to straight just say it how it is. He moves at lightspeed long as he starts from a mirror. You also see arguments about his reserves dropping thus Naruto and Sasuke could keep up as the fight progressed. Which isn't true. As he moves probably the fastest we seen him move, when he took the Raikiri for Zabuza. And thus is while he was one punch away from death against 9 tails Naruto.
For me it's obvious there are no such things as light speed atacks and moves in Naruto...except for that one jutsu they used to teleport Tsunade and A to the battlefield ...which is quite simply teleportation in itself. Other than that nothing, not even the Light Fang on Madara. The term is just used in the series as a figure of speech, as saing someting is that fast that you cannot actually follow its movement, as you cannot follow or understand light's movement. But asumming they are actualy matematicaly light speed is just stupid...i can't believe people actualy try to argue for this.
"Sage art" sage art is natural energy, which means that the light is created using natural energy, meaning it is natural light. Naruto dodged that light. Also Naruto has dodged a literal photon ray.
I love how people can't understand that in Anime characters develop and characters get stronger. Actively downplaying something because you don't like it is stupid. 😂
Personally im not convinced, if madara tried a lightspeed jutsu against naruto then it has to be impressive and not something high lvl jonin and kage can do. Also if kid kakashi cutting lightning is considrered impressive, and the speed of light being far greater than lighting i dont see how characters who arent thousands of times stronger/faster than that that kakashi can just do it. Also almost all lightspeed stuff comes from databooks and i just dont find them all that credible coz most of the time they are made specifically to sound cool and impressive. Good vid tho
That's the issue with feats that get this absurd. They don't make a lot of sense when you think about them logistically, but that doesn't mean that they aren't happening. If characters literally state that something is happening at light speeds, then we can only take it at face value unless you want to debate whether or not characters in the story are lying. But then you're not just arguing with the dialogue, you're arguing with the writer who is trying to clearly communicate an idea to you by literally stating it.
@@michaeleanthonyjr thing is characters dont state anything of the sort, neither does the original writer, which is why i dont take them at face falue. like the in universe scaling doesnt change and i dont really care how naruto stacks up against other verses so for me u can think they are lightspeed or not and nothing really changes
@@SLAUGHTERED-YUKI yeah a kid that was high jonin lvl, i think he was an anbu at that point in fact (idr), and i just dont think haku is over 2000 times faster than someone like that
@@sinoxilurk4126 I don't think any fictional character is lightspeed unless they're in a space ship or their actions actually interact with the world in a way conducive to how such fast movement would actually affect the world around them.
Honestly, mangas just love to throw around light speed and stuff like that. At the end of the day, these characters are as strong as the author wants them to be at any given time. That's why power scaling is ridiculous.
I have to call out seth and Clyde's regards to their hypocrisy on light speed in naruto. Seth and Clyde have stated they believe Ichigo is light speed because he deflected a cero and a data book statement refers to the cero as "a spiritual light" ok not unreasonable. But there is a dara book statement in Naruto saying that Haku moves at light speed and Naruto caught him in mid air. My issue is that Seth and Clyde take the Cero light speed statement as absolute gospel and won't consider the possibility it is wrong yet they ignore the Haku light speed statement which is basically the same thing.
I get what ur saying, but the cero statement is more about the state of being the cero is, rather than describing its strength and speed. Databooks r good for explaining how something works, and the kind of thing it is, but when it comes to describing the power of it, they make some crazy claims
You dont even seem to understand their arguements LMAO Naruto reacting to Haku does not make naruto lightspeed just because Haku is LS when passes through mirror, there are several reasons like nothing implies that Haku was going ALL out against Naruto and stuff like Raikage was stated to be close to light speed and yet MS Sasuke was barely able to react
@@tarikmccuin4859 But Naruto also has statements about jutsu literally being made of light. So why is it that we can take Bleach's statements at face value, but people want to disregard *EVERY SINGLE* impressive statement for Naruto? Double standard. Just to clarify, I don't think part one Naruto is light speed. I'm just pointing out the fact that people disregard everything to downplay this series.
This is dumb Kakashi cant see Itachi weaving hand signs cause they're too fast but blocks a light speed attack?? sure... Also even if Itachi was heavily wounded if he could move at light speed all he would need is 1/10 (guessing) of his speed to dodge lighting, which in itself took time to form and then be launched.
@@datmanshon4561 kirin is not faster than lighting. The mere fact that it needs to form a huge dragon head, and is made up of lighting chakra makes it not faster than lighting. Also a person who’s faster than light would perceive lighting to be slow, and as such like I said even if he was 1/10 the speed of lighting he’d be able to dodge.
@@jacob6172 Kirin is faster than lightning. 1. It is explained multiple times in the series that chakra can enhance the speed and power of natural substances. Just like how B was able to enhance a regular pencil to the point where it could tear through a tree like butter. Asuma was able to enhance weapon to the point where it could do the same to a bolder. A small body of water could be turned into a large lake, and so many more examples. 2. Chakra itself isn't actually the nature types lol. It's just transformed to function like them (adopt their properties). But obviously, they will be way stronger and faster than the naturally occurring substances, as shown in the series. 3. Kid Kakashi was able to cut a naturally occurring lightning bolt in half with very little chakra left, meaning he is way faster than lightning. Itachi is stronger than a much older, much faster Kakashi. So it would make ZERO sense that Itachi would get hit by something way slower, than an even slower version of himself lol. 4. Jutsu get faster overtime, which *proves* that they are not limited to the speed of what they were created from, SO6P Sasuke is wayyyyyy faster than Hebi Sasuke, and Naruto was relative that SO6P Sasuke. Yet, the Kirin was able to tag Naruto in their final clash, proving that it got way faster than what it was before. I could go on.
@@helphowdoinputusername1118 honestly dont want to challenge you on all the rest but, your statement doesn’t apply to kirin. As you wrote “chakra can enhance the speed and power of natural substances” kirin is not a natural substance as it is made of chakra, I doubt you can use chakra to enhance (your own) chakra, an example of chakra enhancing a natural substance would be Sasuke cloaking his sword in lighting chakra
@@helphowdoinputusername1118 and no kirin isn’t faster than lighting, kakashi cutting lighting is an outlier and doesn’t apply here. Also if you count that as a feat for kakashi then all it means is that he peaked as a kid seeing as he couldn’t see the movement of itachi’s hands and couldn’t dodge regular fist in his fight against zabuza
Thanks for watching! :)
No, thank you, for making content 🙏
Good video tbh
I didn't I'm just came here to comment :D
np
U should make a video on where Shisui scales
It doesn't matter if the characters are light speed if they can't even get past Kakazu's raw durability
Ong
Better raw durability
W Kakazu solos all of fiction
he just has too much raw durability no one can beat him
Kakazu got nothing on the riakage tho 🤨
I think the Haku lightspeed statement just applies to how quickly he teleports from one mirror to another and not Haku's combat/reaction speed. Like if someone can teleport instantly from one position to another that teleport technically has infinite speed. But it's not logical to say that the person using the teleport has infinite speed themselves if that makes sense.
That makes sense but naruto was able to hit haku while he was going mirror to mirror. I think amped naruto is close to light speed in part 1 because of this
Its not teleportation but body flicker which is chakra amped movement speed. Its also referred to as Haku being reflected between mirrors but not actual teleportation
@@badassproductions4734 haku is not using any teleportation like flying raijin or sumn he's not using space time ninjutsu, just moving really fast using his ice mirrors
@@momotheone9700 that's what I explained who are you even replying too 😭😭😭
@@kobe-d6z not really cause 1 he strugles with the raikage even he s thousand of times stronger then v1 cloak
kido who has a shitter cloak then naruto became 1000x times stronger and since naruto cloak > kidos cloak so at the bare minimum naruto kcm cloak would give him a 1000x amp in base and that naruto is around the raikage level which wouldn't make sense if he is lightspeed at the start of the series
also haku could have just been holding back or as 6 said she needed to be mentally amped to use her fp like how naruto needs to be mentally aped to access his pt 1 power
I really liked this one Six, I liked how it seemed very well thought out and was not trying to “take sides”
Thanks
@@sixfromtokyo yeah dude good vid
@@sixfromtokyo here I give you a fun fact, everyone in Narutoverse are lightspeed, including kid Naruto, kid Sasuke and Haku. The reason why I'm saying this is becuz the inconsistancy of Naruto makes everybody lightspeed. Also if everyone lightspeed means that Baryon Naruto is faster than time and have infinite speed. 😎👍
@@sixfromtokyo also Kisame is faster than Raikage and Minato. Raikage is lightspeed, Minato outblitzed Raikage, Bee made Minato unable to reacted to him, yet Kisame outspeed Bee, means that Kisame is faster than Minato and Raikage. 😎👍
@@NYUSmanChannel villagers in Konoha could perceive and react to the 9 tails as well as Pain attacking the village so they lightspeed too. They could also react to Momo invasion
I hate when y'all (You, Seth, swag, etc.) Say "I'll make this quick as to not take up your time" -- homie the reason I'm here is for you to take up 30mins to 3hours+ of my time explaining things like this in depth. So stop NOT wasting my time. Educate me. Lol love your videos.
Stop not wasting our time!! We love our time wasted😂😂 no fr tho im with you i love the hours or more longer video
BIG FACTS. I ld love if Seth would make longer videos explaining stuff
They are usually wrong and bias they are good but not educators when they ignore appt of facts
You need to level up homes
The thing about most anime/manga in general is that lightspeed is never consistent and honestly if everyone doesn't move at similar speeds it would make anyone at light super broken.
Also, humans can barely really fathom lightspeed and its implications in short distances.
Lastly, there is also an assumption generally that every beam or lightning attack moves at equivalent real word speeds which may or may not even be the case. Something even the authors may not have thought of.
The only characters I know are confirmed to be lightspeed are Dragon ball Z characters and Fire Force characters
@@jameswtlocs Yuyu Hakusho characters S class demons are lightspeed, Saint Seiya characters are also confired lightspeed the speed feats in Seiya are insane every gold saint and 7th sense awakened has light speed, Sailor Moon also lightspeed so there are many.
@@Naglfar94 interesting
What I’ve been saying basically lightspeed in anime is not like lightspeed is real life. For example the n naruto we saying raikages ftl attack is ftl but that would mean in every punch their is a sonic boom and the blue light aura around his hand would be to slow to follow his actual hand
FACTS. THIS IS THE ONLY REAL ANSWER. Because the writer is not consistently doing theoretical physics every single time that they want to say someone is super fast, it's just not happening because they don't care that much. Anyone who is trying to seriously accurately compare anime speeds across different anime has kind of lost it a little and needs to take a step back
As somebody who is working on making a channel, your introduction is so solid as always. I really appreciate the way you practice things before you jump in the topic! Keep up the good work brother
Nice self plug while trying to seem humble and appreciative.
@@DrooledOn XDDDDDDDDDDDDD IKRR
I think most people have an easier time accepting Madara's Light Fang as truly being light speed is because it's one of the on justu that actually behaves like a beam of light
His head doesn’t turn at the speed of light though
@@nicholasrodriguez1139 Yea it turns way faster than that
Yea that and the move is literally called sage art which uses natural energy
@@nicholasrodriguez1139 naruto dodged the beam and the turn though
@@Yu-dp5hp yeah but he’s a directing a beam of light doesn’t mean his head turns at the rate of the speed of light
Nobody in fiction is faster than the cameraman!
Faxs
@@ichigoglazer24 📹🏃♂️💨
Yeah cameraman is just way too fast
The cameramen are ultra instinct fast
Except Spongebob that one time
"Naruto can still see therefore he isn't lightspeed" arguments always made laugh.
I like that better "Nothing is faster than light, cuz of that they are not light speed"
@@Kakashi01560 or how about "Naruto isn't made of nuclear isotopes therefore baryon mode statements are all hyperbole "
@@punkcobi8953 that's new for me, haven't seen it.
@@Kakashi01560 I've seen it once, and had to shut it down. I forgot the reason for the debate but he couldn't accept prime madara was weaker. AND DONT GET ME STARTED ON THATS ISTG
"where's the light bro??" Lmfao
The FitnessGram™ Pacer Test is a multistage aerobic capacity test that progressively gets more difficult as it continues. The 20 meter pacer test will begin in 30 seconds. Line up at the start. The running speed starts slowly, but gets faster each minute after you hear this signal. [beep] A single lap should be completed each time you hear this sound. [ding] Remember to run in a straight line, and run as long as possible. The second time you fail to complete a lap before the sound, your test is over. The test will begin on the word start. On your mark, get ready, start.
*bing* one
the flashbacks
Light speed or not, Naruto can’t react to six reaching for a Chick-fil-A sandwich
Ironic
Spitting
lol
No, no, he’s got a point
In the words of Afro:
“Where’s the LIGHT!?”
I think I've heard that but dunno where
@@BrenoGF144 it's a debate between afro and seth i think it was years ago
“Itachi blocked Kirin! Lightning is light, right?” “Mmm- It’s about a thousand times difference but alright”
My main argument these days is this:
Characters in the war are capable of casually reacting to Darui's Laser Circus, despite it being described as a literal laser (amplified light). The Raikage is also faster than Darui's Circus which would put him just over light speed, bare minimum. The Raikage then goes on to get blitz by Naruto so hard that it reminded him of Minato's teleportation. Basic calc stacking and power scaling can get estimates as high as 1000's of FTL even before Six Paths.
People will bring up arguments like Haku blitzing Kakashi, or the Light Fang seen as a monumental feat, but these can easily be argued against.
Attacks can get way faster than what the element its made of. Shown by how attacks actually *do* get faster, and how fire ball attacks from Madara can blitz people way faster than lightning, and how part 1 Kakashi was able to casually dodge part one Sasuke's fireballs, yet Six Paths Sasuke's fireballs were actually relevant enough in the fight against Six Paths Naruto to use.
All this means is that even light based attacks can increase in speed, and Madara's light fang was way faster than light, because it made light, *amplified* by *Six Paths chakra,* which would be way more potent and faster than naturally occurring light.
I mean lets think of this logically. If Darui makes a chakra laser and Six Paths Madara makes a chakra laser, do people really think these 2 abilities will have the same level of speed and power? No. Because Madara (along with his chakra) is way faster and stronger, so his light based attacks can also be way faster and stronger. If that weren't true, and all his attacks were just as slow as anyone else using them, then they wouldn't be useful in a fight against people who can keep up with his physical speed, because the jutsu would be way too slow.
Really like the part where you talk about how jutsus can get faster. It should be used as a case for this more often
Is the Raikage faster than the laser circus?
@@sherminatoranalysis3429 On top of this, laser circus doesn’t have to be light speed. Light doesn’t actually travel at light speed except in a vacuum, and laser circus also doesn’t move in a straight line, so it is doesn’t make sense from a physics standpoint to say laser circus moves at light speed. In addition, I would add that anime typically follows normal newtonian physics if anything at all, and the speed of light is just something borrowed from our world to give some reference of speed. Therefore, the speed of laser circus is something to be determined by the lore of Naruto: Shippuden alone due to the insignificance of statements and feats in Naruto on the Naruto: Shippuden world (do not assume all statements hold, the Naruto universe is full of inconsistencies, so what happened recently counts for more).
I don’t have much more to say at this point, but I generally prefer an analysis of feats from an author standpoint than an in-universe standpoint.
@@funkyflames7430 somebody with sense, finally
Fire is the worst possible element to use as an example due to fire actually have acceleration properties
Light speed is irrelevant when you can't even scratch the man, the myth, the legend mr. *RAW DURABILITY* himself, lord and saviour kakazu
Six’s content is honestly so underrated, he’s calm, completely objective, and makes sure he’s factually well versed before he says anything about a topic. Genuinely one of the best creators in this genre
I would've liked to hear more about how their light speed applies to combat. There's a huge difference between moving at light speed on a constant basis and fighting relative to normal human speed with light speed movements mixed in. The cooldown on Almighty Push and Obito's 5-minute thing both point towards the latter being the correct case. (Otherwise, Almighty Push would be quite weak and Obito would be way more broken.)
@@RanMaru144 agreed
@@RanMaru144 no, their combat speed would scale to travel speed and vise versa
naruto while in combat dodges haku's light speed attack
Travel speed isn't that important. It's all about combat speed which the naruto characters have
Why would they fight at human speed and just flick back and forth between that and light speed?..
Haku is indeed light speed but only in his mirrors. The things naruto and sasuke reacted to was the needles or whenever haku stepped out of the mirrors
That doesn't make any sense. The only movement happening is when he moves from one mirror to the next. Which is what Naruto reacted to
He reflects from them at light speed like when haku moved through them and stated Naruto appeared to be in slow motion but a chakra influenced Naruto was able to dodge said movement
six always droppin bangers fr
Ngl I’ve been on the edge about subbing ever since I saw you on a swag video, this one really proves to Me that you can look at things objectively without bias. (All I’ve seen you talk about until now is biased arguments in vs). Great video, good scaling all around.
So I'll give my issue with the datebook, and that's mostly the stats just being provably wrong, like Part 1 Choji having more strength then Hiruzen, and prose like saying Sasuke is faster then anyone in the Akatsuki before even fighting Itachi.
I don't think they should just be thrown out, but taken with some salt. Things like constantly talking about Lightspeed or how jutsu work are obviously not that though.
It’s just old data books they make no sense they just shouldn’t be used ever especially in vs battles
I think the stat bubbles are supposed to be considered as in relevance to peers. This interpretation would make a lot more sense since kid Naruto has a higher speed stat than Hiruzen and Neji has a higher Ninjutsu stat (in shippuden) than Naruto even after mastering Rasenshuriken. Additionally Choji's skills go down from child to adult so wouldn't make much sense otherwise. Not really relevant tho.
As for the Sasuke statement we know 5 Kage Summit Sasuke should scale physically to Hebi Sasuke with the curse mark which should put him above a lot of the Akatasuki and he can then amp his speed even more with Raikiri. Just a few thoughts off the top of my head if you want to debunk me go ahead but I don't want to argue data books
@@akarilight6331 I mean I've heard the argument that the stats are on some kind of bell curve, but that just makes them worse since then we have no point of context.
For Hebi Sasuke scaling to Summit Sasuke, I disagree but I won't argue it if you don't want. But even then he would eclipse Itachi or Pain who scale higher, and if we count Obito then it's just laughable.
Temari blows away the Universe according to the databook lol
Shit like that is why you gotta extrapolate which is accurate to what's happening on panel and which is obvious incorrect translations or hype statements.
@@akarilight6331 If you have to use a different interpretation of a DATABOOK for it to make sense, then i think it is pretty safe to say that said databook is not reliable at all and shouldnt be used for these kind of discutions
I feel like when authors have lasers abd laser guns in their stories, they dont think about the whole speed of light thing, but then scalers do loool
"Oh the speed of light in Naruto is like 50mph btw guys" -the maniac writing naturo that tries to state that characters move at the speed of light but clearly do not move that fast. WeLl It SaYs It iN ThE bOoK! Clearly they do not considering the distance they travel and the time it takes them.
Madera is not moving lightspeed in that attack, hes moving his head which moves the beam. If I hold a laser pointer that's turned on and flick my wrist, my hand is fucking moving light speed is it? The laser is, sure, yes. Not madera spinning his head on his neck.
I have no idea how you managed to get literally every single thing you said wrong. Its quite impressive.
@@helphowdoinputusername1118 how long did it take for the light to come out of his head. How quick can he make it happen?
I don't get why people take lightspeed attacks as meaning characters can move at lightspeed. Amaterasu appears when Itachi or Sasuke look at something, but it doesn't mean they can physically travel the distance in that time. The physical movements that launch these lightspeed techniques are slower and the characters are usually reacting to the physical movements, not the lightspeed thing itself. There is also the fact that something made of light does not necessarily need to move at the speed of light. After all, they would only be able to cause radiation damage if they were actually light. I think of these types of attacks like lightbulbs. They produce light and they may have a physical property, but they do not move at the speed of light until they are launched or possibly not ever, despite containing/producing light. Some, like Amaterasu also might be half the speed of light in a way too, since they may not be able to activate the technique until the user sees something, meaning the light must reach the users eye and then they send the lightspeed attack out, so light needs to go in both directions, doubling the time of the technique (plus the time it takes to concentrate and make the technique activate, since there does seem to be some delay on that, as the blood seems to be visible coming from their eye at the same time as the technique's activation)
my tv remote is literally light speed level bruh
the thing is with the madara jutsu it emits a beam of light from the mouth but he moves his mouth to swing at naruto so that technically dousnt mean it was a light - speed attack
The jutsu was aimed at Naruto's face, and *then* Madara swung his head after he saw Naruto dodged it. So he still dodged it. Otherwise, why would Madara be surprised that he dodged the actual attack?
It's not actually light, its more of an energy beam like a light saber. Light has no mass. The glow emitting from that beam is light but not the beam itself.
Even if Madara's attack is lightspeed doesn't mean Naruto is lightspeed since it is stated that Sage mode allows you to be able to essentially sense attacks and react before they happen. This is like saying since Spider-man can dodge attacks that are light speed means that Spider-man is light speed when his Spider Sense just warns him of the attack shortly before they happen.
Honestly I really like it when the characters in a verse are more..human, instead of being these planet busting beings that are essentially gods when compared to real people.
Yeah I think I always have that problem with the ending of shonen shows, I usually like the earlier situations where they had to deal with stuff that humbled them and reminds them how human they are
Dragon ball is the worst in this case, since we can never know for sure if an attack actually does any damage.
Can you do an entire video on mental amps?
To summarize there's a bunch of light based or light speed attacks that on the surface lvl have some issue that can easily be explained and they can be explained without even bringing up calc stacking, how the statements support each other, narrative and can scale to be around the same time
The laws of light speed irl and laws of light speed in anime are vastly different
Really
It makes no sense for ninja's to be faster than light. Light can travel around the planet 1 and a half times in 1 second. you guys really think naruto can travel anywhere he wants to on the planet in the blink of an eye? That's what it means to be faster than light, and i know for a fact we all seen naruto even in KCM running around the battlefield for hella long before reaching his destination.
@@DimiArt anime logic vs real logic doesn’t work bru
@@drrippy1 it can work. We see good examples of actual light speed in DC, Marvel, Dragon ball super, One Punch Man, where characters are travelling to other planets or across a galaxy within minutes. Saying that any ninja in naruto is Light speed is just ridiculous honestly.
@@DimiArt it works though and characters dodge “light speed attacks” as well so it’s not really that crazy
I definitely agree with Light Speed being reached in Naruto, I definitely think Light speed is a hyperbolic thing in the Data Books up till the War arc.
The only problem I have with some of these statements in the Data Books is that if all of these things are as fast as light that means all the attacks that catch someone who has dodged these said attacks or characters that surpass characters that have that every worthwhile character at the end of Part 1 up to now are all faster than light to some unquantifiable degree. Which just over complicates scaling and moves arguments away from the casuals to semi casuals who don't like to do Calculator breaking math equations in order to make an attempt at differentiating the speed scaling accurately between characters.
That and if everyone that Surpasses a Full Power Haku is light speed, there's a lot of Lore issues with this as you have various jutsu and characters that have jutsu that ARENT stated to be light speed and such.
the only times light speed was achieved in naruto was when characters literally used teleportation techniques and called it speed
@@Trathien- no, Naruto casually dodges Sage Art: Storm Release Light Fang from Madara, which is straight up a beam of light. So Naruto and Sasuke are LS at that point and onwards
@@xvoidxhunter2129no lmfao nowhere is it stated it's the speed of light...y'all see the word light and just start adding extra words
@@SuperCasperman light fang is literally stated to be a beam of light
@@xvoidxhunter2129see that clip bro.
Naruto dodged madara's nech movement not the actual fang.
With a closer look u will find that madara aimed at the right side of naruto's neck and swung in order to cut it down.
But naruto dodged it.
It's not a ftl feat bro.
The use of community posts recently have been nice. Great work on the video too. :)
The databooks always felt so hyperbolic to me, and culturally the Japanese use a lot of hyperbole in promotional material. The thing is, it's hard to believe people like haku or itachi are light speed when they get tagged by attacks that are comfirmed slower than that, for example the sound ninja in the chunin exams. We know that haku in whatever emotional state he was in wasn't too fast for sasuke to track with an immature sharingan, and v0 naruto who knew like 1 jutsu clapped him, yet later Lee smacks up that same sasuke before the exams who can react to "light speed" yet he gets tagged by substantially slower sound jutsu. again hakus emotional state comes into play ig but I don't like scaling with non concrete amps or nerfs because those are unquantifyable, like if itachi was healthy or something it's basically a what if. So if haku gets smacked by v0 arc one naruto, how can they be lightspeed at this point if sasuke was gonna wipe out the new team 7 with a lightning speed attack? Unless I'm supposed to believe time skip naruto, sasuke, and yamato are weaker than haku, which I don't since once again he got his shit rocked by v0 naruto. and itachi may have been weakened and fatigued, but sasuke still refers to kirin as an attack that can't be dodged or evaded, if he's designed that calibre of attack for itachi, and he thinks it has even a chance of tagging him, how can lesser characters be light speed? Cause the databooks said so? They also say amatarasu is as hot as the sun when that's impossible bc when it's unleashed everyone within a 60 mile radius isn't immediatly turned to ash, and we see that naruto characters can easily get burned, so this hotter than the sun statement I feel is another example of hyperbole. Another thing is sound based genjutsu. How does anyone get caught in sound based genjutsu? It's slow compared to light and yet supposedly anyone stronger than arc 1 kakashi (who is complete ass tbh) is over lightspeed.
Haku wasn't even trying against naruto and sasuke
@@amangeldjanargul7120 so haku let himself and his master zabuza die for fun? If bros supposedly light speed, he'd be the only one in the first arc and should've been able to no diff everyone
"Slow compared to light" is a massive understatement. If you could move at the speed of light, a sound wave would be completely still in comparison. You could run hundreds of thousands of circles around your enemy before their sound waves ever hit you
10:23 this is also the case for Bleach power scaling we literally have kidos or attacks that are named after they're nature tho these elemental attacks can be faster than they're own nature its not just limited to they're nature but anyways we have literally ppl shooting lightning bolts or light based attacks like light beams etc as early as the first arc yet ppl sit here and tell me that stuff is just !massively hyper sonic or mach 14 or whatever I can't stand this and the worst part of all is that they tell us prove that's actually light and prove that light in Bleach works how actual light is supposed to in real life...the appeals to reality gives me such a rage equivalent to Kratos or Ashura from Ashuras wrath or even Guts
Just to address the speed of sound debunk for haku
Lee cant see or sense sound so him getting hit by it is not an anti feat
to be fair most of the sound attacks are clearly communicated and arent exactly subtle so its like a 50/50
@@sinoxilurk4126 lee seems surprised and its stated that he cant see them
@@sinoxilurk4126 it’s still sound tho which the eyes can’t track because sound doesn’t have any physical form so nah he Lee just couldn’t see it
@@sinoxilurk4126 The one that Lee got hit by wasn't. So its not 50/50.
Not only was itachi at the hight of his sickness against sauske he also took a large shrunken to his leg shortly before sauske released kirin
Remember: being fast doesn't mean anything if you can't react at that speed
You should reread that sentence and configure in your head a way to either articulate your point different or delete the comment due to it being stupid
@@calmrage8626 I think this guy's referring to the difference between travel speed and reaction speed, saying that if for example, you run at the speed of light doesn't mean you can react to light speed attacks or something like that.
I don't really see the point of this statement though since like 99% of the time, a character's reaction speed will be equal to or higher than their travel speed because otherwise, they would just crash into stuff and wouldn't know when to stop.
@@DemonicAppetite1120 well all these examles were specific attacks not normal movement speed related. ANd we know from the chidori ninjutsu can allow you to move way faster than you normally can and require the sharigan to properly react with. So it could maybe be argued to be the case until like op war arc characters.
@@calmrage8626 no, the body flicker is a perfect example of this. The body flicker allows you to move fast, but shisui is one of the only people who can react while preforming the body flicker technique
This is why minato is referred to as the yellow flash. He can dodge something moving extremely fast when its is like .5 centimeters away from his face and teleport like 30 meters away instantaneously 🤣 they was shook
In my opinion
Travel speed:No
Combat speed/reaction speed:Yes
Dash speed:Maybe
pain's 5 second timer puts a massive hole in lightspeed movement, 5 seconds is an eternity in terms of lightspeed, shinra tensei is useless if naruto characters are lightspeed. and shinra tensei is demonstrably not useless, its in fact a massive wall that seems almost insurmountable in the pain arc.
for another example theres the heavenly transfer technique, which mabui used to transport both tsunade and the raikage to the battlefield. this technique is explicitly lightspeed and is noted for being to dangerous for the normal ninja to use as transport as their bodies couldn't handle the speed and would be destroyed. this is relevant because to claim character like itachi, haku and kakashi are lightspeed you have to scale them off of raikage's durability with his lighting armor because they lack tsunade's regen.
Just let them speak they nonsense and try to sound smart 😂
Haku at least has their own specific jutsu they use to reach light speed, that being the ice mirrors, and while they're considered fast during the land of waves arc it's reasonable to interpret that they aren't capable of going as fast without the mirrors as they can with them.
No one was lightspeed around pain
Yea they're not light speed even Black Zetsu claimed the reason Kirin can't be evaded was because it was real lightning that's faster than the speed of sound.
ok lets ignore light speed my guy what about lightning speed don't u think the same logic would apply if the char are 10 x of 100x of times faster then lightning ?
also if the raikage is faster then light
then pain who scales above the raikage is also faster then light so he can keep dodging until he can use it again .
I only believe Naruto dodging the light fang isn't a speed of light feat because you can say that while in six paths sage mode he could sense his chakra concentrating in one place ready to fire out an attack so he had a bigger gap of time to react. Similarly to how Obito dodged amaterasu by seeing sasuke's chakra concentrate in his eye with the sharingan.
he dodge it after it was fired
No proof he used his senses
No character is actually light speed in the sense that they don’t constantly travel at that speed.
At their peak speed they are light but because they have to load up and then burst into that speed makes them by definition not light speed
Not necessarily
You forgot about the lightspeed transportation used to transport the raikage and tsunade to the battlefield. Madara reacted to their attack while they were still affected by the lightspeed properties. Everything else was good though.
Who said it was light speed?
@@spacegmaxter5918 been stated on the manga and databooks to be lightspeed
He didn’t react to their attack. He got punched(or Kicked away) By Tsunade when she arrived.
@@jms7265 He did react to it. He raised his hands in time to block the attack by Tsunade.
@@rockyterman6904He reacts to Tsunade moving her hand, not teleportation jutsu.
We’re down for longer videos and streams, dont worry about us
Saying that something is "lightspeed" or "moves at the speed of light" is usually just a hyperbolic way of saying it's really, really fast, nearly instantaneous. There are only a few examples of genuine "speed of light" achievements in Naruto. For example, Madara's Light Fang does indeed move at the speed of light, but all Naruto had to do was sense it and dodge Madara's head turn. Speaking of examples, I'm surprised you didn't mention Minato's Flying Thunder God technique, which is probably another genuinely lightspeed example.
Not rly an argument g. Lol
Wouldn’t this be implied to all fiction? I swear y’all can easily accept comics for this shit, but w anime it’s different.
No, Naruto clearly dodge Madara attack.
I just started watching but I know this video is going to be great. Great work Six. 👍
The way I see it, there is no literal shown evidence of lightspeed in Naruto, and there are multiple static time qualifiers, such as Deva Path having a 5 second cooldown, which, vs. characters who should be lightspeed, would allow for many hundreds of thousands of attacks, means that lightspeed, and even consistent soundspeed is nonsense.
As for the Sound Genin, I'm not sure why we all gladly accept that Raiton is not lightning speed, but that all Sound Jutsu must be sound speed. I see no reason why chakra-created or chakra-manipulated sound shouldn't be slower than sound, just as Raiton is slower than lightning.
Because the sound Ninjas say that their attacks have the speed of sound (Dosu and Zaku said It)
@@Foxes4035 Which is doubtful, as chakra-produced elements are always weaker and/or slower than their natural counterparts.
Nice video man
And I actually knew about the fuu and kabuto ones already and was suprised someone actually brought them up for once lmao
Really trying to be informative ( which I like )
No, they aren't even hypersonic
Naruto verse has more consistency than outliers at scaling lightspeed
It's still pretty wild to me how people can show so many examples in 1 video of how whack the databooks are and STILL unironically try to use them as a reliable source, if you use the databooks as an actual source then literally everyone is, or at the very least, can achieve/react to lightspeed, end of discution, but then everything would be pointless, since if everyone is lightspeed but they are still shown to be faster than others, well, you're back at square one
But anyhow, the databooks are 1; not even made by the author, and 2; obviously made in a hyperbolic way to hype shit up
If you have to "prove" that a DATABOOK "actually totally makes sense if you interpret it in a certain way", then it is pretty safe to say that said databook is not at all a reliable source
the databooks are made by the author and how are the statements hyperbolic when they are backed up by the things we see in the show for example the whole point of kabuto attack is that it creates a powerful light that blinds your enemy after the dragon warps around the sphere so it makes perfect sense for the dragon to be made out of light
That's cool. You don't even need the Databooks to prove they are light speed anyways.
Give me an example of the databooks being hyperbolic and no the databooks were made by the author
@@danielsemakula1526 late reply but there are few examples i remember:
1. Temari is universal(lol)
2. No enemy stands a chance against temari's fierce wind attacks.
If temari is really this strong then she would have ended war arc berself soloing madara or even kaguya with just her wind
3.sakura caught up to naruto and sasuke in war arc.
4.raikage being light speed.
Here point 4 is controversial but do believe raikage isn't lightspeed or even close to it. The reason- in manga raikage travelled through a country in few seconds. Even though its fast but its still not lightspeed as light can travel around the world about 7-8 times in just a second, that is if we assume naruto worls being as big as our planet
@@danielsemakula1526 using these points it is pretty obvious that databooks are just for reference purpose and to hype up characters, basically like pokedex in pokemon.
Lots of things are exaggerated. So it makes no sense to be used as a method of power scaling
If I threw a light bulb at you would you say I threw it at the speed of light?
I think a few select characters are lightspeed pre war arc but they also usually lack in other departments, like Haku might be lightspeed but can't even attack hard enough to hurt pre 1 tail cloak, not even jonin level Naruto. The war arc is when characters get more consistently into light speed, the raikage, Naruto's chakra modes, other characters scaling from him or scaling from Kakashi who as a kid could chop lightning, etc.
If Haku is moving at lightspeed, he should be ripping the universe apart with his attacks.
The Raikage was only almost light speed.
@@spacegmaxter5918 That was only referring to the lariat move (both him and Bee) which isn’t his top speed.
No one in Naruto is the speed of light..
I thought the haku mirror light speed ment inside the mirrors he can move between them at light speed, but when he moves in the real world where he's able to attack he is back down to at about sound speed which in a small close range encounter would be nearly impossible to perceive by a human.
I have some questions
Can Momoshiki absorb Gudodama?
Can Isshiki shrunk ETSB?
Can Momoshiki absorb long range Kamui and Kamui Shuriken?
Can Hidan's ritual kill Daemon? I don't say that Hidan would beat him but will the ritual work on Daemon?
Can Sasori's poison kill Daemon? Because Sasori is a puppet and he's immune to poison.
Yes
Yes
Idk
He can absorb the shuriken
No
Sasori cant beat him since all his attacks just get reflected
Just to add on to that:
how would obito interact with chibaku tensei if he's using kamui and
Can momoshiki absorb deva path abilities
@@xtensioncordtv1969 he would phase through it also he could absorb jt
@@Glitch1125
I don't think he can absorb the shurikens. His hand would get warped away.
For Hidan's ritual, I personally believe that it would work because any damage Hidan took will be reflected back at his opponent. Even if Daemon reflects the effects, since Hidan is still in the symbol, it will be reflected back to Daemon. This feels like Haschwalth vs Ishida from Bleach. Both opponent reversing each others.
@@xtensioncordtv1969 if his whole body is phasing, then it shouldn't, since his actual body isn't even in the same dimension . I would think Momo can absorb planetary devastation, but not the gravity manipulation, like almighty push, since ur manipulating the gravity, not creating anything new. Same way he wouldn't be able to absorb kirin, since it's not chakra
Why use scans while the whole official translations r out
Hey Six! Can you do a video on Naruto vs Luffy? I personally think that Naruto wipes, but I wanna hear your opinion!
Spoiler alert: He does
@@fluff6811 he already did?
@@juub5171 No just that Naruto scales way above Luffy, or at least as much as I can remember of Luffy’s feats, you only really go all the way through One Piece once.
Luffy roughly scales to Kaido in power, who is capable of some pretty insane stuff, like wiping out cities and potentially one shotting islands.
But…
Adult base Naruto at half power was trading blows with Momoshiki, who is equal to or greater than Kaguya, who was capable of wiping out one of her demensions that contained multiple planets and a star (possibly more).
If the difference isn’t obvious I’ll simplify:
Luffy is island level
Naruto is a Solar System buster
Agreed.
I do believe Naruto is faster than light, but my problem is when people say that he's mftl+ when he dodged Madara's like beam thingy. That feat in particular is not that fast. The same people say Luffy isn't light speed because he aim dodges due to his precognition known as observation haki but don't treat Naruto's precog know as danger sense in the same manner.
No he isn’t faster than light. Main reason u can see bc of light. So if u r faster than light u r technically able to travel to the future. And if u react with more than light speed then u can’t see the present but the past. Also not to forget all the objects in the background falling to earth gravity which r moving relatively to the character. The objects should be sooooo slow that there should be to small than zero movement. But objects fall too fast and therefore the gravity of their planet should be a big chunk of light speed. And do u know what this implies? The concept of a normal human being able to even move is impossible Or anything existing at all. Even the aliens would die if put a step on this planet. Reason for this is they r influenced by little force. While the gravity we will have there would the stronger than Saitamas one punch. This whole concept of LS is bs in the first place. And if they want to play at LS. Just leave it at LS but don’t add more. There r more than other options to scale speed and flex with it. We can for sure say that Naruto and our worlds difference is the amount of number Pi has. would love if a physician goes there and erase it from existence.
Everything was ok. And he can even dodge light it’s ok. But putting the sentence that Naruto is faster than Light there turned the world upside down. Instead we could have just said Madaras light attack or Delta‘s laser was not near LS.
Shisui has the fastest footwork
Hey I wanted to ask a question not related to this video:
when people bring up Minato’s fight against Obito during nine tails attack, they don’t mention that Minato was trying to prevent nine tails from escaping when Kushina was giving birth which means he was already exhausted even before Obito initiated the attack but I don’t know why nobody brings this up.
I’m shocked ppl think Naruto characters aren’t at least around light speed, like they don’t shoot lighting at children on the regular 😂
Lightning is not as fast as light, sounds funny but look it up
Lightning only travels at a speed of 270,000 mph
while actual light travels at a speed of 670,000,000 mph
There is a huge difference
@@spacegmaxter5918It isn't that huge, considering that Kakashi at age of 13 is already faster than that.
Naruto characters make a move
Light speed : It's a free real estate
Naruto could have noticed Madaras lips and reacted to that, rather than to the actual laser beam.
He had experience with reading Uchiha men's lips, after accidentally making out with sasuke, and he knows now how to avoid that happening again at all cost
@@factsheet4930 bro 💀
dont let this make you forget bungee gum has both the properties of rubber and gum.
Video goated people will always try to downplay lightspeed Naruto.
Oh look, it's Tenshu's son.
@@Rck-vert Corny
First also, I love your videos!
Every character in Naruto is light speed but struggles to even evade speed of sound attacks in most occasions pretty solid feats to argue about in my opinion
I assume ur referring to sage Kabuto and his sound jutsu I don't understand why it's such a hard concept to grasp that chakra amps jutsu to be faster
Like not all lighting jutsu is locked at lightning speed
Bro sounds so silly 😭 so part 1 kakashi is light speed because data book says so but madaras light attack doesn’t cap at light speed because of?
Any light speed in just about any show would effectively make power scaling impossible. Even getting close to light speed would require a similar amount of energy as a solar flare, which is an order of magnitude above the amount of energy the earth receives from the sun each year. Anything at or above light speed would completely violate physical laws, and would then require and entire new set of calculations for the universe in question, negating any calculations for said universe using our own equations for force and energy.
Hit the nail on the head with this comment
Nigga this is fiction stfu😂 it’s also impossible to cut down mountains yet naruto characters have been doing that since the pain arc
@@vinno5901 uhhh yeah dude kind of the point. Power scaling doesn’t make any sense in a fictional universe because there’s a breakdown in physical laws at a certain point.
@@Gusto3791 It makes sense when you stop trying to apply real world physics where it obviously does not fit. The laws and constants that govern our reality won't govern all realities ( *some* may coincide, but not *all* will). This is exactly why videogames play so differently from real life. A reality will function under the rules and laws given to it. Games function and operate under the laws and mechanics coded into them by the developers, and fiction functions and operates under the laws and mechanics written into it by the writers.
That's what physics is (by definition). The study of the properties and behaviors of matter and energy. In a different universe with different rules and properties, they will behave differently. You could literally just say that the laws of thermodynamics and conservation of energy function differently in Naruto, and it would make sense.
Might Guy distorted space just by moving, but people find it difficult to believe Naruto characters are light speed?
the thing about "light speed" is that light is tied to a constant: C. C = 670, 616, 629 mph in our universe, but it could be a different number in Naruto. so Haku going "light speed", Itachi's water bullets going "light speed", et cetera; it could be going at our speed of light, while their C is much faster. make sense?
Feel like scalers need to look more into casual consistent feats instead of rare highball feats. Honestly some naruto characters are above lightspeed it’s just the power scaling that’s inconsistent because of the contradictions
So here is my problem with light speed claims in Naruto. Hard light constructs being manipulated by a person cannot be assumed to be light speed. Similarly, you spoke about the word "beam" being defined as light. My issue is that definitions change depending on source and context. "Beam" is commonly used to describe generic cylindrical, light emitting objects like laser beams (which are generally not light speed attacks across most media). The data book statements relating too Haku and the Raikage/Killer Bee seem to just be hype. The data books like to use more "scientific" verbiage as opposed to other media that use hype phrases like "devine power" or similar. Finally, the "consistency" of FTL statements fall apart when you start comparing them. 6 paths KCM Naruto is stupidly faster than 4th Raikage, who the databook compares to light speed. Well Naruto had minor precognition, the Sage Art Light Fang had a big telegraph, and Naruto still almost got hit by it. If you want to argue the SALF is Lightspeed, then this is an antifeat for Naruto and he is relativistic AT BEST, if not slower. That means Raikage can't be anywhere near Lightspeed. If you want to argue that the SALF is FTL, the it can't be considered "light" anymore for obvious reasons, it's paradoxical. While the statements individually appear to be consistent, when all are taken at face value they cannot co-exist without contradicting each other. In addition, anyone who wants to calc stack, you can't. There is no clear power multipliers in Naruto. Sure you can calc stack Chakra levels, but there is no way of knowing or calculating the diminishing returns associated with the physical buffs from Chakra. I'm not even going to get onto the movement speed argument.
So those are my unaddressed concerns. Anyone want to have a friendly conversation about it?
I feel that's with any anime and power scaling we have to keep in mind these creatirs don't make these fights for us to debate who is stronger. So those type of inconsistencies will always show.
I haven't read all yet but I'll start with the first 2.
1. Why can't they be assumed to be light speed? Unless we have reason to believe that they aren't the base assumption would be that they are. At best you could argue light properties and change in velocity due to refraction. But the highest refractive index known is 2.42, which would still make the attacks relative to light at bare minimum by calculations.
I also don't know what you mean by "hard light constructs", but there are also light based attacks that *aren't* constructs and are not being manipulated. They are just actual bright lights.
2. The context is talking about light beams. So we already know what the context is.
About the Naruto feat u do realize that Naruto didn’t see the attack coming and it was also directly infront of his face not to mention that he had to move his body body because Madara swung his head in a direction where he could just move his head to the side a bit and he was also being held down by a limbo clone
The reason Naruto dodged the Light fang was because of Sage Mode's ability to sense a threat before it even arrives.
And Raikage was stated to be "almost" light speed
Can you concretely prove they’re hype or you just making a baseless claim. Jutsu amplify strength, speed, and attacks as we’ve seen. The attacks could be highly amplified as far as we know. We do have confirmed multipliers for some things and just like scientists can make inferences
sasuke reacted to haku (who was reflecting from mirror to mirror) and dodge lightspeed haku. Also haku attacked naruto from one of the shards of the mirror and naruto dodged it. In order for haku to even go lightspeed and reflect off of the mirrors, he would have to be turned into light, or he couldn't reflect (more evidence on lightspeed) since thats the case, any attack or movement from haku, coming from the mirrors, would in fact have to be lightspeed. thats basic physics. When naruto grabbed haku, he was going for a mirror (granted) but considering the evidence, Naruto and sasuke were lightspeed here due to sasuke seeing haku move, dodging his attacks (he would have to be lightspeed or relative to even dodge physically. same with naruto.
Not exactly, for haku isn't light speed, because light in Naruto isn't as fast as real light, and I'll prove it to you with an quick example.
The distance between the moon and earth is huge, you could fit around 30 Earth's between the two, and a laser can reach the moon in under 2 seconds.
For someone to actually be light speed they'd have to be able to lap the earth at least 30 times in under 2 seconds.
No one in Naruto can do that, meaning light in Naruto is WAY slower than light in real life meaning that any "light speed" feat in Naruto isn't valid.
Haku was reflecting off at the speed of a light far slower than actual light, so either haku wasn't and is the fastest person in all of Naruto history (since no one else can move at an actual light speed) or haku was just moving at the speed light travels in Naruto which isn't a valid light speed.
@𝕿𝖍𝖆𝖙_𝕺𝖓𝖊_𝕲𝖚𝖞T.O.G. cap. It's stated in the databook. So it's canon. 😐
@@waifuislaifu8791 then haku is the fastest person in Naruto, no questions asked. Unless as I said light moves slower in Naruto than in reality which I've proven it does.
@𝕿𝖍𝖆𝖙_𝕺𝖓𝖊_𝕲𝖚𝖞T.O.G. cap naruto is way faster and becomes faster even as a child before shippuden due to scaling. Sasuke would have to be relative or equal in speed to a ninetailed amped naruto. He'll it's casual in shippuden to be multiple times faster than light for low tiers. Ez
@@__T.O.G. and kishimoto disagrees with your claim
My perspective on the matter is that logistically it isn't feasible but narratively I can accept that the story is literally telling me what is happening. I think it's stupid that a lot of fictional characters can move at light speed, but if they can, then they can and no argument made against it would disprove literal statements that communicate such.
Though I wouldn't count databooks as solid evidence since I generally operate on the idea that what is presented within the story is what should be factored in when it comes to critiquing it, since that's what is in the execution and not everyone is going to be aware of or have access to these external sources of material.
So yeah, light speed feats are stupid, and logistically improbable but that doesn't mean they aren't happening.
Agree with everything and I don't mean to cause an argument but databooks are solid evidence & in some cases to they are more valid than the anime & manga as they go into depth about jutsu, characters, characters ninjutsu level, strength etc. It's just that some ppl misunderstand it sometimes.
I get what you're saying, but it's a fictional work. The same logistics in our world don't necessarily apply to fictional worlds
@@Rck-vert Yeah I mean they work for argumentation. But from a writing perspective, I don't accept a lot of retroactive information when discussing stories. My perspective is that anything pertaining to the story should be within the story, otherwise it's too easy to retroactively change a work to be better in hindsight than in actual execution. I apply that same logic to every facet of media consumption. But I also don't generally participate in power level debates since they aren't often particularly relevant to the story.
@@marcoferreira4886 Yeah and I understand that, hence my comment, where I at least attempt to communicate that idea
from what i can see on panel/screen i came to the conclusion that light speed attacks do happen but the characters do not move at the speed of light. Being able to dodge a light speed attack does not make one light speed. I for instance could dodge a laser pointer aimed at me by a friend which no one would argue is not light speed but i defiantly do not move at the speed of light lol. You simply have to watch the direction and movements to see where its pointed and when it gets switched on. Same logic applies to many of the light speed feats in Naruto. The naruto ninjas defiantly exceed lightning speed however as proven by kakashi cutting a bolt in half...and some characters maybe even a couple of dozen percentage of light speed ..but from whet we see and narratively what occurs lightspeed does not seem to fit.
Kakashis eyes can see things moving faster than he can move. They allow him to predict* his opponent, and it doesn't really matter cuz u can block things moving fast with proper timeing.
Not arguing that he isn't just that he doesn't have to be, he would need to casually need to be at least 10% to block light speed
Also real science if water even approach the speed of light and probably even the speed of sound it would vaporize
No one is lightspeed in Naruto
FAX
Shut the hell up both of you
Personally i hate with a passion when character supposedly can move at light speed. Because common sense would dictate, then how tf do you ever take any damage unless it's a sucker punch.
That's where you get a bunch of long stories where character so and so was "holding back" when there's absolutely no realistic reason for said character to hold back.
It would take nothing from the (Naruto) story to not have these characters traveling at the speed of light. Just say they move really fast
The only "Light speed" feat is Naruto "Dodging" Madara's light fang.
And we know that is Bullshit. Naruto's So6p sensed Madara gathering Chakra and dodged his neck speed. As you can see in the anime, Naruto tilts his head left before the Light fang and Madara Tries to follow it, resulting in Naruto's Staff being cut in half.
That’s not the only lighspeed feat are u sped 🤡🤡
@@too_official6194 Enlighten me then.
Not only does that not happen in the Manga, but the video gives a bunch of examples you didn't address.
@@Ryuxun did u not watch the video lmao it would be pointless to type whole paragraphs to a ignorant downplayer
@@too_official6194 If Naruto is indeed light speed why does he never uses it on fights ?
kishimito never cared about lightspeed etc and scaling with other verses. its fiction. he can write anything. he can write next manga that everyone is universe level and we cant say shit because it will be canon if he writes it.
I would personally say that dodging a light-based attack isn't the same as moving at the speed of light. You have reactions much faster than your speed, and dodging a beam of light, while fast and impressive, isn't the same as propelling your whole body alongside a beam of light.
True people don't understand this whatsoever
What does dodging mean to you?
@@joecota2644 moving out of the way of something, which is the same thing dodging means for everyone?
Look, I know what you're going to say, and dodging isn't necessarily, "Oh shit, laser beam," and moving out of the way. You could see the preparation for the attack and get a read on where it's going.
A lot of the feats aren't necessarily light speed, but are at least relative. I really am just being critical of the arguments, and you can agree or disagree.
you should do a video on what if sasuke never learned the truth
Can you do a vid focused around Sage Kabuto? He's a really strong character who no one ever really talks about and I just had a debate of a Prime unsick Itachi vs Sage Kabuto and honestly I don't really know who won it and can't find any good videos stating who could win
I second this request. This would be nice 👌
Sage Kabuto can be argued as the strongest character in the series that’s not Dara, Hashi, or a God.
but nothing goes faster than light speed so it must be a pretty even playing field except for flying rajin which is teleporting.
also, everybody wud be lighting on fire from air fiction and there wud be sonic booms everywhere.
going faster than light means they cud kind of time travel too which makes me think of izanagi and how the uchiha can redo their own death.
if kcm naruto had a clone, the clone cud start running around the fight faster than light while watching. if something happens to naruto the clone cud go back to naruto and naruto wud know the future. this is possible because time is moving much slower for someone going lightspeed or faster.
Yeah good points however Naruto can't use clones as no human in the world can make clones so it should be impossible for any characters in fiction to make clones as well
@@aureus5586 ik ik. i dont beleive in chakras either.i was gonna add on more too but its kinda funny to push it to the limit cuz i hear scalers often mention things like "this energy beam seems to have the properties of light so we'll say its going light speed", "the kamehameha is a plasma" or "since jurobo cud throw a giant chouji his arms must be x durable". i like to highlight how ridiculous stuff can get and its just fun to think of.
ps-i was also thinking how can i apply this time travel stuff izanagi somehow.
pss- shoutout to the theorizer's channel and his ratatouille videos
That is real life physics. It does not work like that in every fiction.
Ah yes, r/whowouldwin’s least favorite video.
"It depends on if you accept the novels as canon"
Imagine even giving anyone that branch. The novels are canon. They're on the Kishimoto released timeline for the Boruto movie promotional material. Which he was the head of.
2nd Haku is lightspeed. It's not just possible he's doing during the fight. The official anime meaning the people who could most accurately convey the context of the prime material. Just flat out have Haku stating, "transporting myself at lightspeed." People try to deny it or shift the mechanics of the jutsu."It's only when he appears through the mirror." But then Naruto does the shadow clone barrage. And we're shown everything Haku states in real time in both the Manga and Anime.
In which Naruto to Haku appears to almost be in stopped time. As he transports himself.
People try to use Sasuke stopping Haku as some sort of last stand. But we were never even shown how Sasuke did it. In the anime we saw he amped himself then jumped.
But when Haku explains to Naruto what he did. The anime has a non canon scene where Haku gets him in the heart, and then Sasuke intercepts him and throws him into one of the mirrors.
Thus he's on the ground when Naruto wakes up. Whereas Kishimoto left it ambiguous. All I can say is Sasuke countered haku at lightspeed. They basically dumbed down his explanation to straight just say it how it is. He moves at lightspeed long as he starts from a mirror.
You also see arguments about his reserves dropping thus Naruto and Sasuke could keep up as the fight progressed. Which isn't true. As he moves probably the fastest we seen him move, when he took the Raikiri for Zabuza. And thus is while he was one punch away from death against 9 tails Naruto.
The novels are canon. I don't think anyone disputes this.
Lots of people do
For me it's obvious there are no such things as light speed atacks and moves in Naruto...except for that one jutsu they used to teleport Tsunade and A to the battlefield ...which is quite simply teleportation in itself. Other than that nothing, not even the Light Fang on Madara. The term is just used in the series as a figure of speech, as saing someting is that fast that you cannot actually follow its movement, as you cannot follow or understand light's movement. But asumming they are actualy matematicaly light speed is just stupid...i can't believe people actualy try to argue for this.
"Sage art" sage art is natural energy, which means that the light is created using natural energy, meaning it is natural light. Naruto dodged that light. Also Naruto has dodged a literal photon ray.
I refuse to believe that damn water tendril jutsu is light speed. I love Kishimoto but he be smoking sometimes.
well kishimoto didnt write the databooks, just some ppl trying to make everything sound cool
Why can’t it be light speed It’s still chakra and a light speed character could throw water at light speed
@@sinoxilurk4126 exactly I think they used the term light speed too loosely
@@uzumaki2689 yeah, basacially
@@uzumaki2689 not really they only used it on op characters and kept it consistent
I been seeing B and Ay vs Pain popping up, lowkey that would be an interesting matchup for a video
I love how people can't understand that in Anime characters develop and characters get stronger. Actively downplaying something because you don't like it is stupid. 😂
The idea of manipulated light moving at light speed is fallacious in itself.
Umm he is light speed becaz he dodge Madara light speed atk
No
no. he dodged madara's jutsu activation. he sensed it before madara shoots the laser. similar to Juubito blocking the amaterasu
I appreciate you not being boss and using facts directly from the creator
Personally im not convinced, if madara tried a lightspeed jutsu against naruto then it has to be impressive and not something high lvl jonin and kage can do. Also if kid kakashi cutting lightning is considrered impressive, and the speed of light being far greater than lighting i dont see how characters who arent thousands of times stronger/faster than that that kakashi can just do it. Also almost all lightspeed stuff comes from databooks and i just dont find them all that credible coz most of the time they are made specifically to sound cool and impressive. Good vid tho
That's the issue with feats that get this absurd. They don't make a lot of sense when you think about them logistically, but that doesn't mean that they aren't happening. If characters literally state that something is happening at light speeds, then we can only take it at face value unless you want to debate whether or not characters in the story are lying. But then you're not just arguing with the dialogue, you're arguing with the writer who is trying to clearly communicate an idea to you by literally stating it.
cutting lighting in halve was impressive for a kid lol
@@michaeleanthonyjr thing is characters dont state anything of the sort, neither does the original writer, which is why i dont take them at face falue. like the in universe scaling doesnt change and i dont really care how naruto stacks up against other verses so for me u can think they are lightspeed or not and nothing really changes
@@SLAUGHTERED-YUKI yeah a kid that was high jonin lvl, i think he was an anbu at that point in fact (idr), and i just dont think haku is over 2000 times faster than someone like that
@@sinoxilurk4126 I don't think any fictional character is lightspeed unless they're in a space ship or their actions actually interact with the world in a way conducive to how such fast movement would actually affect the world around them.
Honestly, mangas just love to throw around light speed and stuff like that. At the end of the day, these characters are as strong as the author wants them to be at any given time. That's why power scaling is ridiculous.
I have to call out seth and Clyde's regards to their hypocrisy on light speed in naruto. Seth and Clyde have stated they believe Ichigo is light speed because he deflected a cero and a data book statement refers to the cero as "a spiritual light" ok not unreasonable. But there is a dara book statement in Naruto saying that Haku moves at light speed and Naruto caught him in mid air. My issue is that Seth and Clyde take the Cero light speed statement as absolute gospel and won't consider the possibility it is wrong yet they ignore the Haku light speed statement which is basically the same thing.
To Clarify I do believe Ichigo is light speed I am just pointing out what I see as a double standard in what Seth and Clyde accept as evidence.
I get what ur saying, but the cero statement is more about the state of being the cero is, rather than describing its strength and speed. Databooks r good for explaining how something works, and the kind of thing it is, but when it comes to describing the power of it, they make some crazy claims
You dont even seem to understand their arguements LMAO Naruto reacting to Haku does not make naruto lightspeed just because Haku is LS when passes through mirror, there are several reasons like nothing implies that Haku was going ALL out against Naruto and stuff like Raikage was stated to be close to light speed and yet MS Sasuke was barely able to react
@@jarvuy glad to see someone with sense 👍
@@tarikmccuin4859 But Naruto also has statements about jutsu literally being made of light. So why is it that we can take Bleach's statements at face value, but people want to disregard *EVERY SINGLE* impressive statement for Naruto? Double standard.
Just to clarify, I don't think part one Naruto is light speed. I'm just pointing out the fact that people disregard everything to downplay this series.
How fast is Hokage Naruto when he dodges Photon beams without chakra in base??
This is dumb Kakashi cant see Itachi weaving hand signs cause they're too fast but blocks a light speed attack?? sure... Also even if Itachi was heavily wounded if he could move at light speed all he would need is 1/10 (guessing) of his speed to dodge lighting, which in itself took time to form and then be launched.
Well that’s what happens when you’re dying and blind and also he wanted Sasuke to win and Kirin may be more than lightning speed
@@datmanshon4561 kirin is not faster than lighting. The mere fact that it needs to form a huge dragon head, and is made up of lighting chakra makes it not faster than lighting. Also a person who’s faster than light would perceive lighting to be slow, and as such like I said even if he was 1/10 the speed of lighting he’d be able to dodge.
@@jacob6172 Kirin is faster than lightning.
1. It is explained multiple times in the series that chakra can enhance the speed and power of natural substances. Just like how B was able to enhance a regular pencil to the point where it could tear through a tree like butter. Asuma was able to enhance weapon to the point where it could do the same to a bolder. A small body of water could be turned into a large lake, and so many more examples.
2. Chakra itself isn't actually the nature types lol. It's just transformed to function like them (adopt their properties). But obviously, they will be way stronger and faster than the naturally occurring substances, as shown in the series.
3. Kid Kakashi was able to cut a naturally occurring lightning bolt in half with very little chakra left, meaning he is way faster than lightning. Itachi is stronger than a much older, much faster Kakashi. So it would make ZERO sense that Itachi would get hit by something way slower, than an even slower version of himself lol.
4. Jutsu get faster overtime, which *proves* that they are not limited to the speed of what they were created from, SO6P Sasuke is wayyyyyy faster than Hebi Sasuke, and Naruto was relative that SO6P Sasuke. Yet, the Kirin was able to tag Naruto in their final clash, proving that it got way faster than what it was before.
I could go on.
@@helphowdoinputusername1118 honestly dont want to challenge you on all the rest but, your statement doesn’t apply to kirin. As you wrote “chakra can enhance the speed and power of natural substances” kirin is not a natural substance as it is made of chakra, I doubt you can use chakra to enhance (your own) chakra, an example of chakra enhancing a natural substance would be Sasuke cloaking his sword in lighting chakra
@@helphowdoinputusername1118 and no kirin isn’t faster than lighting, kakashi cutting lighting is an outlier and doesn’t apply here. Also if you count that as a feat for kakashi then all it means is that he peaked as a kid seeing as he couldn’t see the movement of itachi’s hands and couldn’t dodge regular fist in his fight against zabuza
Before even watching the video Imma say it, that Minato is technically faster lightspeed since he can teleport
K he's lightspeed between mountain ranges or very small Naruto countries at best XD.