Destiny 2 Lore - The forces of Darkness are forming an alliance. Xivu Arath's Master leads them!
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- Опубликовано: 7 сен 2024
- Destiny 2's Lore from the season of the Lost is telling us about how The Darkness is beginning to martial and combine its forces into a dark alliance. Xivu Arath might be its general, but there is a darker force commanding it. Xivu's master, the creator of the Taken and the controller of the Scorn.
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There was something disturbing during the past couple weeks.
The taken and scorn were using stasis.
I noticed that too and was so fucking confused as to why i was getting frozen until i noticed that the ravagers' mace was covered in ice.
@@No_Feelings the same thing happened with the Taken… that is distressing.
I felt a disturbance in the light almost as if millions of guardians cried out in terror, and were suddenly frozen.
If only I had access to Stasis in TTK, I would've whooped the Guardians
But the reason why the Darkness didn't gift me Stasis was cuz its a cheap jab at the enemy, and they felt confident that I didn't need it
@@oryxthetakenking8275 lol time to turn your sister into a gun
The forces of the darkness are forming an alliance…here’s hoping a formal alliance between the Forces of the Last City, Fallen, awoken and Cabal officially forms!
And then they can finally use that unused Faction FOTC
Considering Caital still wants us to join her empire is gonna cause alot of friction cause Zavala.
And the twist at the end would be the forces of light calling themselves "The Covenant" 😉
And the Vex are just on the sidelines watching the drama like, "Oh shit this is good."
and possibly Savathun’s breakaway sect of the Hive.
The Veil: *"Aww yeah, it's all coming together."*
I don’t think the veil exists. That “5th race” from the concept art was just the taken all along. It’s just something I’ve been thinking about, could be wrong
I feel like the veil was just an early concept of the taken
Could've also been a concept art for the Nightmares. Technically they are Darkness entities. Here's to hoping though. Could always also be the Aphelion.
@@wesguerin8706 oh damn I forgot about the aphellion
@@ronanoftheborealvalley4353 there's so many possibilities and they're all exciting. The veil, the witness, nezarec, skira, etc. Shit's about to get lit
We should also take into account that the Darkness most likely has a fourth faction devoted to it, the interior of the Luna and Europa Pyramids were clearly designed for something living to exist within them.
Likely what attacked humanity during the collapse. Ada-1 had an indirect experience with them.
That would be the Aphelion
@@mitchellon18 ah yes, the one where the techeun said that they can wipe out the guardians even though we have killed gods
The pyramids are paracausal entities like the traveller mate.
@@seb5542 The Traveller and the Pyramids are machines, not merely paracausal entities
Say, if the darkness can speak through those who have died... that explains why, in the cutscene at the end of shadowkeep, it speaks through us. That could also be why we’re such good wielders of the dark. It could also explain why the hive are so closely affiliated with the dark-every hive with a throne-world has died and come back.
Wasn’t that Savathun interfering with the Darkness and speaking through us/ghost though?
@@PazOfficial No, that was the Darkness itself communicating with us.
@@S3Cs4uN8 yes, but who is to say Savathun wasn’t manipulating the situation
@@PazOfficial Savathun herself confirmed she was ‘interfering’. What else would she be interfering with? We were communicating with the Darkness, Savathun, through Nokris, tried to stop that. She may be Lies incarnate but it is true that, in some way or view, she interfered, or tried to, with our talks with the Darkness
@@trololopez2437 thank you
I just realized something interesting. We always hear the Sword Logic in reference to the Hive, but Savathun has spent the past however long using Bomb Logic. Her strength comes from setting up her deceptions and schemes, and then having everything fall into place. We have Xivu, who is basically an incarnation of the Sword Logic, and Savathun, Master of the Bomb Logic. I think we'll need to fight fire with water, then ward off a flood with the flames. (Face Savathun with overwhelming force - Destroy Xivu Arath with decisive cunning). It would make for an interesting dichotomy. I think Savathun is doing everything to destabilize our faith in anything.
The presence of these Hive Guardians will likely shake the Vanguard and the City to the core, especially those who zealously believe in the incorruptibility of the Light. And yet the Nine have told us: The Light and the Dark are not good or evil. Merely tools to be wielded by those who are good or evil. And the Traveler abandoned the Eliksni, rather than saving them, or bringing them with. But the fact that the Hive can wield the Light is going to call the morality of the Guardians into question. If something as evil as the Hive can use the Light, who's to say that the guardians that defend the City are not evil? The Darkness chose to let us have its power. The same entity that has sought the extinction of Humanity has given us its sword, Stasis. And if the Light can be wielded by the Hive, what if the Traveler isn't actually the side to back in this conflict? What if the Traveler is only interested in its own survival, and we are merely the peons that man the king's walls? If the dark breaks through the gate again, will the king stand with its subjects, or once again flee through the catacombs to find another kingdom?
All of these are questions that could drive a wedge between the City and the Tower. Between us and our allies. I think Savathun is waiting, just waiting for the perfect opportunity to take the reason we fight, the reason we exist, and crush us with a single question. Is our entire existence as Guardians a lie?
Man you've got me so hyped. If this is what it turns out to be I salute you.
>" But the fact that the Hive can wield the Light is going to call the morality of the Guardians into question. If something as evil as the Hive can use the Light, who's to say that the guardians that defend the City are not evil?"
The lore has literally never stated that Lightbearers are morally infallible or even righteous. Ever since the Dark Age, it's been common knowledge that the Risen/ Lightbearers aren't inherently good and that the Light is simply a tool to be wielded.
Warlords slaughtered innocent people and yet their ghosts never left their side, if that doesn't tell you enough I don't how the "Hive Guardians" are supposed to bring about a grand new revelation.
The title of a "Guardian" tho isn't simply afforded to any and all lightbearers, it's reserved for those who wield the light to protect humanity and fight for the right cause, more or less aligned with the Vanguard.
Well she hasn't broken me yet. The moment she shows a slip, it's gonna be lethal. (BTW, this is one hell of an ace she's working on playing.)
I mean I don’t believe her for a second but it’s always been a question for everyone. Was the Traveler going to abandon us? Did it choose to stay? Or did something else happen that forced it to make a final stand on Earth? We know it is benevolent in gifting species with life but we do not know if it will stay with us at the crucial moment in the story. In the Red War the Traveler finally woke up and now that it’s healed I can’t help but worry that it’s going to one day up and leave us. And if that happens does the Light remain within us guardians or will it take the light along with the ghosts?
@@masterchiefofhalo4525 there was a lore book for the speakers in season of the dawn. I’ll paraphrase. The traveler was trapped by nine things and couldn’t flee.
I've had a disturbing thought recently. We know Calus was experimenting directly with the scorn using the Crown of Sorrow, and the events of the Glykon hint at the crown becoming a tool to control the scorn in the form of a hive mind. We secured the crown from the Glykon and basically gave the crown to Osiris who we now know was Savathûn in an Osiris costume.
This season we're contending with the forces of the Taken, the Hive, and the Scorn all working together for one master who we are led to believe is Xivu Arath.
What if, and bear in mind this could just very well be a tinfoil hat train of thought, what if this is all just another con from the Witch Queen herself? I believe she was telling us the truth when she told us that she wanted to be rid of her worm and that Xivu Arath is hunting her because of it, but what if she's been manipulating both sides in order to be rid of her worm once and for all? What if she got Xivu to attack her and hunt her while giving her sister the means to do so with the Crown of Sorrow in order to make her bargain with Queen Mara, who may very well be one of the only beings in the universe capable of freeing Savathûn from her worm, all the more believable?
It's crazy, but it might just work. I'm gonna reply to this comment just in case.
That's something I've been thinking about as well, a lie within a lie
I’ve seen a rumor that Savathun can’t wield the light until her worm is gone. Which is probably why she has hive guardians in Witch Queen
_I’m on the moon. It’s made of cheese…_
I personally believe that this is all just another plot by Savathun. She's plotting with Xivu Arath in order to gain our trust, and simultaneously granting both her and her sister increased power. Remember, EVERY TIME Savathun deceives someone, she gains strength and feeds her worm. Until she finds a solution, us believing that Xivu is after her should sustain her, if the crystal itself does not prevent the worm's hunger from killing her. And the main danger of this, is the fact that the Hive's tribute tree is already short another branch.
When we killed Oryx, all of the tribute that was going to him, is now likely divided among the two sisters. Now, what is going to happen if we kill Savathun in Witch Queen? ALL of the Hive's tribute now goes to the Hive God of War. Savathun has been lying circles around us for years, but she is no frontline combatant. Her strength lies in turning others against each other; and now that she's been revealed to us, we have begun to rally against her. Her days against us are numbered. I believe that her plan may be to weaken us by making us question the alliances we've made, and then she may plan to die by Xivu's hand. If she does, her power goes to Xivu via the Sword Logic, rather than to us.
This has gotten rather long but:
TL;DR - I believe Savathun is setting us up, teasing pieces into place for Xivu Arath to emerge from the background and slaughter us.
Bungie has a serious talent for making pants-shitting lore.
Just you wait. The best,
.... is yet to come.
Bungo: "Things aren't black and white, the Fallen are a religion of Peace and the Cabal just had a bad day."
also Bungo: "You're going to slaughter literal mindless Zombies and dark Fleshpuppets without agency and personality for the next three years"
It's so cool that we're finally getting the face of a true antagonist of the Light and Dark saga. We've known we're going to be driving to a close in a few years, but it's just felt like a faceless threat that was never there until now.
I hope Bungie reveals the fifth enemy faction revealed from D1. The fans refer to the Drakness’ army as “The Veiled”. I’ve had a theory that The Final Shape will reveal that the Traveler and the Pyramids are not faceless entities. But rather, the Gardner and Winnower. Two beings that have humanoid physical forms. But have never revealed themselves to any civilization they’ve visited because their power is too much for normal lifeforms. Except Guardians. That’s why I believe the Winnower and Gardner, both god-like, a cloaked man and women, stay inside their respective “chambers” to dampen their overwhelming paracausal powers. Instead, they delegate other lifeforms to play their flower game. Our Sol system may be the first time each physical entity may reveal their true humanoid form. Just a theory, but it would be a revelation that would change everything.
I'm glad we're getting an antagonist but also a bit wary. We're pretty far into this storyline and if the controller of the darkness is someone we've never seen or heard of it could be awkward compared to the built up villains we've already faced prior.
@@izorsky I can understand that. Especially if they are not mentioned prior in the lore. My theory is that the Gardner and Winnower are physical, humanoid manifestations of the dark and light. Residing in the Traveler and the Pyramids. While an unexpected twist, I can see their reveal would be jarring as well. We’ll know what Bungie had planned to end this saga by 2023/2024.
@@izorsky ........no one controls the darkness all the villans have been pawns of the darkness just like guardians are pawns of the traveler so we will probably see a new enemy type along with the darkness itself
@@artemis5265 They mention Xivu Arath has a master so I'm referring to that. Destiny expansions usually have an enemy at the center too, like Uldren, Eramis, Oryx, Skolas, etc so it could be assumed there's a villain ahead. They could keep the darkness as a vague entity all the way to The Final Shape but a fight against a non-villain might be a difficult story to tell and many might fail to find it compelling. I'll be interested to see what the "darkness itself" ends up being in the story and whether it evolves or not.
Kinda liking Xivu arath getting some development finally
Notice me riskrunner I love you
It's been a long time coming and I'm all here for it
@@xenomorph383 sus
@@No_Feelings Why were you sunset?
@@alvaromartingonzalez414 i was the hero the word deserved, but not the hero the world needed.
Akka after saying "You have not the strength": "I shouldn't have said that, I should NOT have said that"
"You dont have the ball-"
Fun Fact: It's speculated that Akka's powers were Ontological, which roughly means that its power exist because Akka lied to the universe so much that they became true, which backfired immensely when he said that line. By saying that Auryx did not have the strength to slay him Akka inadvertently gave him the power to do so.
@@S3Cs4uN8 I've seen that theory but I don't quite understand it. as I understand it, Akka makes claims that are false and turns them true, or claims a truth is false and thus makes it false. Which is why they didn't want to deny Auryx when they talked about giving and taking, because they didn't want to risk denying the anthem anathema and make it false. Akka "Denied the truth until the truth became a lie", so is it just that the lie was only said once and needed repeating to take effect?
Why would claiming "You have not the strength" to Auryx make them have said strength?
The book claims this to be a lie, though the book's written after the fact so depending on how Akka's powers work it could've been true at the time until that was said like the theory suggests. But if it were a lie, shouldn't it be a lie that makes itself true? Or is this some grammatical rules lawyering situation and Akka slipped up due to phrasing?
Or is it a reversed logic? By claiming "You don't have the strength" and that being true, that becomes a lie? Even though Akka's otherwise shown to make the truth a lie by denying the truth, not by being something that always lies to the point that any truths they tell must necessarily also be lies.
@@S3Cs4uN8 that's the basis of my comment!
Remember Byf, there are 3 worm gods left. We could potentially be dealing with them in the coming DLC's. Possibly all three of them.
no unless they also attack savathun which just doesn't seem likely because of how they could just let us kill her then fight us
Hey m8 I'm confused, I thought there was only Xivu Arath, and Savathun to deal with; who's the 3rd?
The 3 hive gods are not the worm gods, (the worms) are the ones like xol they were 5, but orix killed one of them and we killed xol, so 3 of them are still out there
Three worm gods in one raid? *Count Me In*
You seem to have forgotten that Fikrul is indeed still alive, or active to be more precise. The only reason he isn’t a bigger problem is because we keep killing him in the Hollowed Lair with repeated strikes. If the Scorn are up and about, it’s likely something he had a hand in.
I really want Fikrul to meet Crow. The scorn still recognize him as Father. So Fikrul would likely do It as well.
@@gabrielpineirogarcia2078 Whether we wanted it or not, Father stepped out to meet with his sister and was killed then revived as a Guardian. So let's get to searching in the area, one by one. "The Crow". From what I can gather he's a Vanguard scout acting in the city. He's well protected, but with the right team, we can punch through those defenses, take those bastards out, and break their grip on Father.
Personally I want a dlc where Fikrul returns to the moon, the home of the house of exile that he once belonged to, and resurrects the entire house as Scorn, and communes with the darkness.
@@halberd-3291 I feel like Fikrul will be a Seasonal Boss or a dungeon boss at most, although I really want him to take a bigger part in the story alongside Crow.
@@saint-cardboard Honestly would be fine with him being a dungeon boss. Imagine a Scorn dungeon, would be sick as hell.
Anyone else realize how much oryx, savathun and xivu currently in the story fit into tolands analogy of the 3 queens and how the queen with the army will always win and rule. Oryx is the queen who built the tower to gaze at the stars, savathun is the queen with the book of laws, and xivu is the queen who conquers.
You mixed up the Law and Tower queens. Oryx wrote the Tablets of Ruin, so he’s the Law Queen.
You mixed up the Law and Tower queens. Oryx wrote the Tablets of Ruin, so he’s the Law Queen.
Since the Taken are a power of the Darkness, if the Darkness wanted to, it could allow our Guardian the chance to obtain the power to control them.
Third darkness subclass maybe????????
I kinda want to imagine that the class abilities would take enemies that you kill with them and the super would just summon them back as Taken that fight alongside us.
_inmagine summoning taken in crucible_
Imagine a cutscene where we kill Xivu Aiarth and the Taken suddenly start bowing as our arm starts to look like Oryx's hand when he is taking.
A taken subclass would literally have so many possibilities. Like a warlock could be like a conjurer by taking enemies and Titans could have their barricades “take” the projectiles that hit them and then fire them back. The idea of taking as an ability has so many uses.
So that makes sense as Drifter said Primevals were "older"
Would that explain the primordial taken of the drifter.
He did talk about how these taken were almost sapient, filled with rage, corrupted or even created by the darkness itself.
Maybe one of the taken made by the darkness is the big ugly chimera taken
My guess is the Nine know who this master is or they are involved . They literally use Taken to give you "answers".
Yeah he even describes them as the oldest taken he could find, which implies they were before oryx
@@gabrielrodriguez9142 The nine are just dark matter entities associated with the solar system planets. The darkness is much, much bigger than this. Completely different scales of operation there. Universe vs planets around 1 single star.
@@gabrielrodriguez9142 The Taken created by the Nine are artificial Taken. They're made out of cold dark matter instead of Darkness.
I feel like a new enemy born of Calus merging with darkness is going to become known soon.
Xivu=Hive
Fikrul=scorn
Calus could be the next to control the taken. Because it seems like he was “taken” by the darkness.
And triangle controls them all in the end.
It's really nice to see lore from D1 still being relevant for the story and lore of D2.
The coolest thing would be to see different races of enemies fighting against you together. Like, instead of fighting some Scorn only, you fight Hive and Scorn together as a unified force.
Or even scorn and hive fused into something horrible.
@@themanwithamission The mindbender already did this, so this could possibly happen
I think it’s pretty clear that this “true master” of the Taken is the Winnower.
The Winnower aka skira the watcher aka dark lord of darkness aka the one who hate us
@@m.jthomas5793 eh, the Winnower don’t really hate us. On the contrary, it thinks we should be the final shape so... in a way, it kinda loves us lol
@@davida1229 but we kill it minions and plus we at war with them
@@davida1229 The Winnower usually wins with the Vex and I think Shira might be a third entity that makes calls on the flower game.
@@m.jthomas5793 a lore tab in shadowkeep is literally the darkness telling us the we are the only thing that means anything to it anymore
at 16:58 byf just casually hits a scorn for 32,063,206 damage.....what did he do to deserve such a punishment?
It a visual glitch. There were two hits of 3,206 that ended up stopping to look like 32,063,206.
@@DrakeofDecay his healthbar was just that large
@@DrakeofDecay it's not even a glitch, he just plain misread it
It existed as Scorn, that's why
Wretched creatures
There was something Toland said after getting bad juju, something about what pulls on the end of the chain? Or what sits at the top of the pyramid? Toland knew there was a pyramid when they went into the hellmouth, and he knew exactly what would happen when they descended. I think whatever he is say has more importance than we realize
I remember this too, something about whatever is at the top of the hierarchy in the ascendant plane being aware of us and letting us gather strength.
It should be noted that Toland has, or at least seems to, adopted the sword logic before the whole disaster on the moon. This does taint anything he has to say a fair bit which also isn't helped by him being a bit insane as well.
So yes while there is some truth or knowledge to be found in what he says there's also a heaping spoonful of dogma and the ravings of a madman.
The bad juju lore tab says "you think yourself very high up on the pyramid of contumely. If only you knew how high that pyramid goes." This was in season of opulence, when we hadn't even seen a pyramid outside of the final cutscene of vanilla d2, and savathun and xivu arath had only been hinted at as far away puppet masters and weren't yet present immediate threats. I wonder how much higher we've climbed on the pyramid since then
@@Scripzure essentially allowing us grow stronger, so that by killing us, it would further sharpen its blade
I just redid the lost ghost traces on the moon. One of them says not to trust Toland at all.
“If you ever want to see what’s been watching you since the very beginning stand on that line and look up”
You can't imagine how much this line intrigued me. If you could make a video about your thoughts on it, it would be great
at first i wondered what she meant. so i decided to try and take it litteraly- most of place with straight lines tend to be in the dreaming city, so i checked around standing on the colored lines. im almost 99% sure she meant it metaphorically, but you never know. queen of lies and all that
Personally I took it literal on the spot, aka I stood a front of the trapped Savathun and looked up, noticing the triangle above Savathun head neatly aligns with the round window behind her. Perhaps a hint that the darkness and the light are even more tightly connected then we ever though.
I was hoping he would to but I haven't seen any video of his covering that yet unfortunately.
a thought about Osiris (the real one) that i just had.
what if he's already dead, and has been since the start of the season?
like, we see from Savathûn's perspective that she inhabited Osiris' body, rather than use a substitute. so it's the body of Osiris walking around, and he can't control it, as we see in the new Bow, depressing lore and stuff.
when Savathûn starts to shapeshift into her Hive God form during the opening cutscene to the season, we don't see how it happens, but we hear like the cracking of bones and what sounds like body horror, whilst everyone watching is clearly horrified at the spectacle before them, possibly the Phoenix's body being turned inside out as Savathûn reveals herself to us.
Savathûn claims that Osiris is still alive, and for some reason everybody, even Mara Soc, believes her without question even when suspecting some type of betrayal down the road.
But why would Savathûn tell them this?
To make such a bargain when she would surely know that if/when we rid her of her worm, we'll try and kill her.
She's probably lying to us about Osiris' supposed captivity to have an advantage over us, giving us a reason to help her get what she wants, when in reality, she's doing all she's ever done. Lie.
And think, the people who'd be most affected by this would be Ikora and Saint.
This probably isn't true at all, and we'll most likely see Osiris return to us.
but it just has me uneasy that, even in her crystalline cocoon, Savathûn is being so seemingly open with us.
I had the exact thought. I feel like he's dead. He died with her transformation.
I was thinking the same thing why would she just give us back Osiris she is known as the queen of lies for a reason.
Maybe Osiris soul is still “alive” and the only way to keep him “alive” is to turn him into an exotic? It sounds like something Savathun would have us do to keep him alive… we did that to savathuns brother in destiny 1 so it could be a form of retribution.
I was thinking the same thing. Especially since during the cutscene it shows in the black and white drawing him as a decomposing corpse with a moth on it while talking about inhabiting him. During The Who is savathun cutscene.
@@lilwindingo1100 wouldn’t be the first time we used a guardian as a weapon.
Are we just COMPLETELY glossing over Mara, who has been gone for ALMOST 3 YEARS, comes back, talking with Savathun, who trusts Mara for whatever reason, AND WHEN SAVATHUN REVEALS HER TRUE FORM, MARA FREEZES HER IN A VERY STASIS-ESQUE STATUE. PARDON ME, BUT THERE NEEDS TO BE MORE DISCUSSION ABOUT THIS.
I think the awoken has powers just like the guardians being born from both light and dark
It's not a statue... it a COCOON
The fact that taken and scorn are using stasis now it’s more proof that there’s an alliance of some kind. Thank you so much byf for another awesome video.
Praise be the Winnower, great God of Darkness. IT who Takes. IT who gave some sort of societal foundation to the Scorn. IT that cuts things down to its simplest form, for it is majestic. Majestic.
Poo poo doo doo
Someone call the Praxics, we got another one.
All this about taken and the darkness, also remember the lore descriptions of specific beings (a hive wizard, a psion, etc.). The Deep/Darkness would find some quality/feeling/flaw to seemingly exploit and enhance. In the case of taken psions splitting there was something about not being alone, never being alone again.
Taken (haha) directly from the grimoire card
You are a Psion. Clever, canny specialist. Bolted into the Cabal hierarchy: a pilot, an investigator, a manipulator, an operative.
You have been taken.
Be still. Your endless vigilance is done. Nothing will enslave you ever again.
What hidden plan do you obey? What is your secret principle?
Your mind is a weapon. The world breaks when you think. Secrets peel apart for you - like fruit. But you are a rare thing. There are so few of you. Your frailty betrays you.
You must be manifold.
There is a knife for you. It is shaped like [division].
Take up the knife. Cut yourself apart. Take your new shape.
@@kingsum1808 where can I find the lore for the other taken enemies that's so cool
Very cool. They're leaning into Xivu Araths role as a God of War which would translate as a general/ commander/ warrior. Can't wait to see what Xivu looks like.
Xivu arath: “I think we need, a league of our own.”
Bets on the boss being a Worm God... but a frosty one!
But which one though
@@mikemike3886 zavala
Maybe the darkness has it own version of the speaker and that's who has been talking to us through our ghost and in the one vision as our doppelganger and that he is the "entity"? The traveler never speaks to us in words so I assume it would be the same way for the darkness. Also whenever it has talked to us it used the word "we" (we are your salvation, etc.). The entity speaking for the darkness as well as itself?
Salvation says hello.
Darkness alliance vs. Light alliance, I like this. My only question: where do the vex fall under this whole mess? They clearly aren't pro-light, but they're just as aggressive to the hive/taken too.
They are at best neutral
I think a great explanation to this is what happened with Asher. Asher entered the Piramidion with the intention of bringing the entire radiolaria lake down on himself to protect it from the darkness. At first he was fighting the vex to get there but soon they stopped fighting and simply stood to the side and watched. They are entirely neutral. All they do is what is best for themselves. If they have to side with the dark or the light it will at best be temporary.
The vex only side with the darkness because they can’t see any future where the light wins so they worship the darkness to survive
@@jush2000 Not to mention the vex were created by the darkness.
Like others have said, they're most likely neutral. For them, everything is to be made into their image, anything that doesn't fit in it is simply erased from existence
"Oryx learned how to take from the darkness itself, which further implies that this power is based"
-Byf
Hey! Don't forget about Calus!!! He's still gone and it could be that he's joined the other side!!!
I think Calus is going to kinda be on both sides. Not directly going against either Light or Dark
Wait a fucking second. What if Calus is experiencing that same 'Takenness'? Ima make a comment about it
@@DTK625 Mans literally just going to do anything to keep living in decadence.
It's really nice to see the old Grimoire card lore after all this time
If the Deep, or Darkness, takes, and the Sky is opposite to the Deep, that would mean the Sky is the Light, or the Traveler.
Going off of this and now knowing that the Taken are direct servants of the Darkness, and are made by their power, wouldn't that mean we as Guardians would technically be the Given? Because life is given to us via light from the Traveler, and subsequently the Traveler's Ghosts?
The term for guardians in eliksni translates to given
@@saaaaa9927 well then
@@saaaaa9927 Damn, bungie at it again.
Balls blown right off my body with this info
It's worth keeping in mind that the Traveler's only goal is self-preservation. It only created Ghosts when it could no longer flee.
Plus we haven't heard one thing from it since it pulled itself together. What has it been planning this whole time?
There was the hawkmoon quest, where crow had dreams sent by the traveler and we communed with it to get hawkmoon
I wonder when or if Fikrul will make an appearance again. After all, it was the infusion of darkness into Ether that created him in the first place and allowed him to spread it to create more Scorn so no doubt Fikrul will become another General in the army or possibly just a mindless servent the way the rest of the Scorn are.
I wonder, in an act of unimaginable level of vengeance, he gains the power to "take" and becomes a very powerful being for both the Taken and Scorn. Since he does hate the guardians with a burning passion
We all know new darkness subclasses are coming eventually. These are all awesome theories about the future of the story, but to me the writing on the wall is that our final partnership with the powers of the darkness will be learning how to wield Taken energy ourselves. We are already no strangers to wielding our enemy's power ourselves. Stasis, Siva, Corruption, and even blight
I hope not. That would be so predictable and boring… and completely destroy the foundation of what all Destiny player characters are.
@@Yutani_Crayven I don’t see how so, it is a power of the darkness and it’s already built into the game
11:18 "What would happen to a guardian? Is that how we end this -- all of us leaping into the dark, to fill it up with light?"
I see someone's been reading her Ulan-Tan. "if we could destroy darkness, but we had to give up our Light to do so, how many of us would make that trade?"
That’s Def the final shapes storyline. Acquiring thé taken power/subclass and using it against the darkness itself. And once we win, and become the final shape, we sacrifice ourselves to make sure the darkness is truly defeated
@@invvsanity105 I’d like this ending. Defeating the Darkness with force would only prove its point, because we will become the “final shape”. Sacrifice ourselves would be the last “checkmate” to win this battle...
But... since D2 is going on even AFTER this ending... I really doubt this will happen lol
@@davida1229 Is D2 really meant to go on after the Final Shape? I'd assumed they said TFS was the ending of D2's saga.
@@thrace_bot1012 yes. They said this in the Witch Queen Showcase. The Final Shape will be the end of the “Light and Dark saga”, the FIRST saga for Destiny.
But, “make no mistake” (I’m quoting Bungie themselves), it will not be the end of Destiny 2. In that same Showcase, there is a “Beyond” after The Final Shape.
D2 will continue even after the end of this first story.
Maybe there will be a D3, who knows, but D2 will continue past the Final Shape. This, we know for sure.
"Something dark is afoot."
No Byf, that's just the sole of a shoe.
This video just just confirmed some things that i was thinking recently. i have a theory that there is 3 darkness factions: the pyramid ships(with the stasis power), the worm god(with the vapor power) and an acient being(wit the takken power). With this, there is the possibility of us using the taken power in a expansion after witch queen.
Also this video can confirm where the primevals from gambit came from. There is a line from the drifter which he says that there is no clue where these primevals came from but, after watching this video, there is a chance that they a creation from this ancient being.
Ancient being = The older and greater which mara calls
But the ancient being that controls the Taken IS the Darkness. The Darkness controls the Taken. Oryx took this power by the Deep, which IS the Darkness, the Winnower, not a separate entity.
This is explained in Unveiling....
The Worm God are a separate entities but they worship the Deep too...
@@davida1229 it's possible that there's another entity in the pecking order between Darkness and Oryx far as Taken go, perhaps this Ancient being.
@@thrace_bot1012 eh, the book of Sorrow were kinda clear about what happened. The Deep talks EXACTLY like the Darkness speaks in Unveiling (his philosophy, “majestic” etc).
And when the Darkness talks about us, he compared the Guardian to “my man Oryx”.
It’s pretty obvious that Oryx talked to the Darkness, not a separate entity. Maybe it was a pyramid, maybe it was an artifact, maybe it was another physical form, but it’s always the same entity...
Im really intrigued by Calus and why we have never actually seen him given how important he has been in several aspects of the story and the fact that we never meet him face to face makes me really wonder just who Calus actually is and whether the Calus we have heard all about really is who we think he is?
My theory? Calus is being taken rn. First time he found the Darkness apparently It changed him, ascended him beyond more Than just a phisical body.
Seems its been declining over the years (How Calus looks on the presage Lore) and Calus wanted to bargain with the Darkness for more (He thought itd be the end when the fleet arrived to sol. It already arrived but Life kept on. He was scammed)
Now? Well he was trapped in the reign of Darkness with everyone on the ship when he went missing. I think the Darkness abducted him and is Now doing What Byf said of studying its flaws and making him stronger, taken. Would also explain why we can Hear his voice in the locus of Comunion.
And, also What does Calus wabt more in the world? To be the final Shape, to outlive everything in the system not to die. So the Winnower might be working on that as his taken power (like apparently how the psions didnt want to be alone, so their power is just mitosis)
@@gabrielpineirogarcia2078 So he's likely to be a Taken powered Cabal with the power to never actually die perhaps?
And while the Guardians, Awoken, Cabal and Eliksni are starting to face off against the Hive, Scorn, Taken and the Black Fleet...what the hell are the Vex doing?
Watching to see who comes out on top, probably
Calculating who's the bigger threat to their goal of making everything _c u b e_
And boosting their enemy just enough to stop them.
Nothing lmao.
The Vex cannot simulate neither the Light or the Darkness. So they can literally do nothing...
I’m so glad I woke up to see a tweet saying this video was up. Love these weekly videos now
As long as Xivu Arath is a raid boss I'll be fine. She was always scarier than her siblings to me.
Ikr she sounds relentless, like oryx was overconfident, savathun toys with us but xivu sounds like an unstoppable force and god of war is quite intimidating lol
@@sensei_oogway1175 exactly!
@@sensei_oogway1175 I always thought she was the least threatening. Oryx may be incredibly arrogant but his strength and ability to control the Taken left him as the greatest threat to Sol. Now Savy takes the title.
@@aztumtheknightofwumbo7060 well she has less development currently, but I feel more scared of her at this stage, at yjis stage with savathun when we barely knew her I was more Intrigued by her title, but god if war sounds more threatening to me :)
“Pain pain is all there is for you” “they made you into a living weapon “ “the world hurt you more then you could hurt it”. I felt that……
I'm sure this has been covered, but the lore entry for Nezarac's Sin is captivating when put into the perspective of the current season. It shows a duality of the "final god of pain", light and dark, and plays into the line with Savathun saying we should look up as we straddle the line between light and dark. Then in this lore video, you mentioned how "pain" made that ogre. That part may be a stretch, but it's definitely worth revisiting. Regardless, it's a badass lore entry that I wish Bungie would go further in explaining.
Don’t get your hopes on Nezarec.
It’s a troll by Bungie lmao
It was mentioned in TWO lores only. One is a legend pre-golden age. The other is told by the Drifter... the most trustworthy character in the universe.
Nezarec, btw, is also a reference to a novel/anime/manga/videogame (I don’t remember the name... Overlord maybe), to a character named Nazarick (yeah...) un unknown ancient god which is known just by his great tomb (just like Nezarec...).
If this character was really important in the lore, it would have been nominated way more than 2 times...
The Nine are my primary Sus, they use the Taken to give you "answers" and Xur is basically a Taken himself.
full agree, those interplanetary fucks gave us a dungeon saying there's no essential difference between the light and dark and then went quiet for a calender year. if it isn't them then they're at least putting some strong pieces on this new board
Xur even straight up says "my will is not my own"
Xur is a member of a race called the Jovians, not a Taken or anything similar
That’s kinda intriguing that they feel the need to form an alliance. Must mean Xivu considers us, Eliksni and the Cabal now a viable, tangible threat.
There's another figure that I think should be pointed out in more detail in regards to this topic: Calus. We have zero idea what he's up to or planning as we speak, he's currently one of the characters most intertwined with the Darkness and is subsequently being built up as someone we should really keep an eye on, because who knows what kind of terrifying power the Darkness might give him?
Personally, if he isn't relegated to a Seasonal villain during Year 5, I feel like he'll be the promoted antagonist of Lightfall (emphasis on "promoted"), potentially giving his Loyalists a Darkness power similar to what Eramis did with her followers, although likely not just little pieces of technology like House Salvation's use of Stasis, but something more... connected, for lack of a better term, and subsequently we obtain and wield that power against him, his Loyalists, and the forces of the Darkness pulling his strings. Heck, his "I'll be the last living thing when the universe ends" beliefs may get perverted by the Darkness into "I'll be the last living thing when the universe ends BECAUSE I'M GONNA KILL EVERYTHING ELSE" or something along those lines. It'd also make sense if he was the Seasonal villain in the prelude to Lightfall, but I think him being Lightfall's story/promoted antagonist would be more interesting to see.
Of course, this is all hypothetical and I wanted to go on a side tangent about where Calus may go next, but he's definitely someone we can't just ignore, it's clear he's being built up for something big in the future, although we obviously don't know exactly what yet.
I posted this in Myelin's video about this but it got ignored, but I feel like it has some significance. This is a copy of my first post:
"Are we just going to skip over the line you read from the lore entry "Now I may speak to the Deep, the beautiful FINAL SHAPE. I will be King of SHAPES. I will learn all the secrets of our Destiny."
Is this not just flat out giving away how this story is going to end? Our final confrontation in the light and dark saga is going to be with "The Darkness" whatever that may actually be. Not only that but the fact that the sentence ends with "I will learn all the secrets of our Destiny." What's the one major secret that we've been unable to find out since the start of Destiny? Who is/are the "Darkness" we only know the Minions, Followers or Worshippers.. not the real Darkness itself. Ponder on that for a while"
The “real darkness itself” is the Winnower, and its physical form are the Pyramids. Just like the Light itself is the Gardener, and its physical form is the Traveler...
The Darkness itself told this in Unveiling
@@davida1229 We still have not "seen" them. We've seen the ship and we will be going into one during Witch Queen to meet with an ancient evil. My main point of this post was to highlight the wording used of "Shape" and specifially "Final Shape" Which we know will be the final expansion of the light and dark saga
@@cobeyware1 but the Pyramids aren’t just “ships”, like a Dreadnought. The Pyramids ARE the Darkness, just like the Traveler is the Light. The Traveler isn’t a ship. Inside it there isn’t a race lol
There is probably another form of Darkness (also from a gameplay prospective... we can’t fight a Pyramid lol), but it would been just another form of it, not the REAL form. But the Dark Fleet already is the Darkness, not just a ship.
Plus, we already know what the final shape is. The Darkness, again told us this. The Darkness isn’t the final shape, the Winnower is specifically LOOKING for the Final Shape. And right now we are the major candidate to that role...
@@cobeyware1 my theory is that the darkness is 3 beings. The winnower, the black fleet and the entity that Osiris (AKA savathun) mentions on the glykon. The winnower is the true embodiment of the universal concept of survival of the fittest and death. The black fleet is the physical manifestation of the winnowers power and the entity is the voice of the black fleet.
@@jush2000 some kind of an “unholy trinity” lmao
I feel like bungie are setting up every race/ faction to have a light and a dark group. Hive = savathun, cabal =caiatl, vex = Asher Mir and fallen with the house of light. It sounds like we are gearing up to have a final showdown between dark and light and honestly this is amazing. The final shape will be the war between the light and dark not as separate pieces but both as a whole.
I think there’s going to be more factions that join in with the Darkness if they haven’t already.
There’s Calus for what we know could have merged with the Darkness. He might be a darkness counterpart to Caiatl’s Red Legion. Along with that group of Psions that tried to crash the Almighty into the Last City and assassinate Zavala.
Then Eramis could still be alive even though she’s still frozen, so House Salvation would be a darkness counterpart to House Light.
Then this is a big stretch but the remainder of the faction leaders from the Last City that left for the wilds after the epilogue from Season of the Splicer might take action against the Last City, but it’s doubtful.
The leaker who leaked all the true Season of Lost and Witch Queen leaks did say that Eramis was returning.
A faction wars season where Destiny 2 gets a dark zone outside the city would be cool.
Byf is the godfather of Destiny lore
I'd love to see a speculation video on Skira the Watcher might be
I like how we get dialog that LITERALLY states this today during reset to clear up the misconception about the Taken. Byf, sometimes you spoil us with your enthusiasm, but sometimes your haste can seem exhausting. Take care of yourself bud.
Lore daddy cranking out all these fire videos so close together!!! Thank you and we love you but don't burn yourself out!!!
I have a question, about chapter 31 of “the Book of Sorrows.” It seems to reference that the deep has a physical form. An ogre specifically, that Oryx offers.
It says ‘He (Oryx) went out and created an alter and prepared an unborn ogre. He called on the deep, saying - “Come into this vessel I have prepared for you.” And it arrived, the Deep itself.’
Do we ever find out if what this being is? That the deep inhabits? I don’t think we’ve encountered it yet. Not golgoroth, or any other that I’m aware of.
“Eris insists that these Taken are more real, somehow. She uses words like inhabited, exalted, rendered final…”
>final
The final shape?
Lol the final shape was name dropped in the Oryx tab.
My dream is to get a raid like event where you we can use exotics, all the gear exotic!!!!! With extended super, it would be the traveler's boost to the guardians in order to defend the last city!!
6 guardians in every strategic spot on the walls, while you're fighting you can see and hear other guardians in the other strategic spots distance too, it would be EPIC!!!!!
What if, hear me out. The Witch Queen herself actually wants her worm to join forces with the Light hence making Light Hive to defend her from the Winnower and it’s accent to power with the Hive of Xivu, Scorn and the Taken while the Gardener comes out of the Traveler to give final blessings to the forces of Light Guardians, House of Light and the Cabal. What if the new brood are to test each other and soon join forces with us. I’m curious about the Vex though.
Xol already fights with us as a rifle.
I always loved the Taken Grimoire card entries, as it reveals a lot about the Voice in the Dark. I always imagine the voice of those entries as being akin to those smooth-speaking villains in old 80s-90s animated movies.
This is the dark army I've been waiting for since The Taken King trailer.
This makes me think back to Toland talking about the pyramid of power or whatever it was. About how there are things out there we cannot even imagine.
because of the new expansion "the final shape" and the lore, where it said final shape, i think that the final shape might be a huge fleet of taken or something along those lines. in the future, I think we are going to unravel how beings are taken. Just speculation though.
Ooh, that be really cool.
I thought the final shape would be us, “the guardian”, becoming the most powerful being in the universe, either beating or destroying the light and dark. That we, are, the final shape.
@@gibbyc9293 that would also make alot of sense!
@@guywilson6534 that’s actually what the Darkness told to us in “Unveiling”. We should become the final shape....
Is anyone gonna talk about how Oryx called the deep “The Final Shape”? Same thing the last expansion is named
Some quite impeccable content if I wasn’t to speak of so in my own way
7:45 funny that the chrome Icon pops up in the top left when covering the books of sorrow, and the ability to take
Just got the notification and clicked immediately
Me too , I stopped working and everything
so Oryx was less the Taken King and more the Taken General, kind of makes you think that "the taken king" refers not to the king of the taken, but a king that was taken especially when you consider the limited description of how Oryx communed with the darkness sounds similar to what happens to the Taken (and Calus) even more so since he was "given the ability to take" unlike what he said moments prior to that, the dark doesn't give it takes.
Funny how Byf continues to pronounce Xivu Arath as “Shivoo” Arath even when Marra and Savathun properly pronounce it .
came to the comments specifically for this.
Between Mylin, Evade and Byf I’ve never wanted to want watch their videos and theories more than during these seasons
Could this possibly be an opening for SIVA to re-enter the story? I mean, if we’re talking forces of darkness forming an alliance, it would kinda make sense for it to come back after so long to join the other factions.
But hey, that’s just a theory. (A game theory)
Siva is more Clovis Bray tech than a darkness faction
@@hotson3305 Yeah, but it would help as a weapon especially if Rasputin and Clovis are both reactivated.
You make some really amazing videos. You have a great voice for it, the way you read the lore bits is perfect, you show "how to" videos on the background, and the information you give has introduced me to destiny like never before and I've been playing since day 1 destiny 1 beta.
Alliance or not they will all burn the same.
The little snippet where eris mentions that the taken are somehow more real, and then later ikora says that light “bends” around them. It reminds me of strange matter, matter that is so Perfectly stable that other matter is transformed when it interacts with strange matter. I’m sure there’s something I don’t know about “the final shape” but maybe when the taken are “taken”. They are transformed by the final shape and become similar to it, like strange matter reforms the matter it touches. And maybe the darkness is Like strange matter. It’s Just a theory and I could definitely be missing or wrong about something, but it would be really cool if that was how the taken actually worked
Darkness is not just builting a army of hive taken and scorn it it building army of every enemies that mean dark fallens evil cabal vex and worst dark guardians and hive guardians too
We really need human enemies as npc's
Yes as dark guardians
I've always wondered who is the genius behind all the destiny lore. This is phenomenal.
Drives me nuts that Byf still says Shee-vu instead of Zee-vu, as it has been pointed out in-game many times :/
Myelin brought up a good point in the grimoire where Oryx describes the process of "Taking" as a wager where he wager his soul against theirs, and they are formed anew. I'm guessing this might complete your theory that Oryx isn't actually the one doing the "Taking"
Ikora really said that the darkness eats an alien and shits out a taken.
Interesting to remember that: First there are Thousands and thousands of guardians. Second of all, there are many many legendary guardians that display an insane performance doing missions together or even solo, missions like a strike, a dungeon or a raid are indeed huge event in the lore that we beat with just a few of our infinite number of guardians. Remember for example when we did the Grandmaster Nightfall with 12 people back in season of the chosen.. It was pure fun.. A grandmaster.. Not a challenge anymore. just 12.
We play to seek power, we win over the enemies to get more powerful. If we were to face whatever enemy all together.. They better be affraid lol
Why is byf the only one I hear pronounce Xivu as “Shee-vu” when everyone else pronounced it “Zee-vu”?
What does it matter? Maybe byfs right and everyone else is wrong.
Its usually a British thing
@@danielmunroe1423 The pronunciation in game is "zee-vu" soo...
@@danielmunroe1423 it doesn’t particularly matter, it’s just a funny thing I’ve noticed. I don’t hear anybody else pronounce it the way he does.
King of Shapes entry gives some context to the name of the expansion following The With Queen, The Final Shape: "Now I may speak to the Deep, the beautiful final shape." If the Final Shape is truly the darkness, I think we've got a lot to look forward to.
Does Fikrul know Uldren is back or will that be used later to try and get the scorn on the light side?
Fikrul is dead
@@darkmegician He's not dead he's constantly reviving over and over and only being held back by constant vanguard strikes on the Hallowed Lair. It's the only strike in the game where running it more than once is actually canonical and not just gameplay.
@@Soon22400 what?? where is proof of this?
all strikes are part of the canon in that it's different timelines and technically different instances where we beat the bosses
where does it say that the hollowed lair is different?
Additional comment on Baxx:
"They" could refer to the individual wizards responsible for his "taming" as an ogre.
Also, and even more interestingly about Baxx, when he gets Taken, Eris immediately points out that, "not even Oryx can control an ogre... unless it is Taken."
Which is why the wizards "tame" them in the first place.
Also, pretty sure that Savathûn legitimately was as confused by the Glykon as everyone else. She just had to portray it through the mouth of Osiris.
no matter how many times you play an in game clip where they pronounce it “Zivu” you still say “SHivu” why is that?
We ain't commenting on Oryx's sentence?
"Now I may speak to the Deep, the beautiful *final shape*. I will be king of *Shapes*. I will learn all the secrets of our *Destiny*.
I feel this sentence loaded with so much (given we now know the name of the following expansions ), that it deserves a lot more credit :D
You know, the question that I keep coming back to throughout all this… is what could this hidden elder entity want with Savathun? Why is it pursuing her? What could SHE have, that it wants, for it to go to these lengths.
Also, some extra info, look into Skira the Watcher. The splicer activity has some new dialogue recently put in, that might be a good source for you to check out.
I'd also like to add that if the description of taking (being pulled into another dimension and pushed back out) then that sounds pretty accurate to what happened to all the planets that got stolen by the darkness
Somehow, when Byf was reading the lore tab about Oryx, the quote "the beautiful final shape" reminded me very strongly of the name of that newly announced expansion "The Final Shape" ...
I mean, the Darkness is seeking to create “The Final Shape” what (or who, I’ll get to that in a second) the final shape is, is up for debate. One possibility is everything dead, the Darkness reigns supreme over a kingdom of vengeance. The other possibility, one I find more likely considering the name of the DLC, is that our guardian is the Final Shape. The darkness mentions us becoming the final shape at the end of Shadowkeep, so it’s entirely possible the Final Shape is us becoming ruler over both Light and Dark, which makes sense given how The Final Shape is the final DLC in the Light & Dark saga.
Scorn can be considered as '''Half-Taken fallen''' as they are mutated by Dark Ether which was created by Uldren by granting wish from Riven to resurrect a dead Fikrul by infusing Fikrul's Ether with Uldren's own Taken essence.
One other thing to keep in mind is that I don't think we can necessarily keep the line as separated into light and dark sides. With Guardians now able to wield darkness, and with the Awoken of the reef as allies (Allies born of both light and dark) the line is going to blur even further. Plus we know that the last expansion for the light/dark war is going to be called the final shape, and considering what we know of the leaders of Either side.....(the Deep, and the Gardener) we stand on a very interesting place .....though iirc, the Traveler always seemed to leave a gift for the civilizations it visited, something that led the darkness to them like a lure......I wonder if the Gardener is trying to cultivate humanities growth towards its own purposes?
It's the Gardener and the Winnower btw.
@@KRYMauL thanks. Been a while since I've gone through everything, couldn't remember and I wanted to get my thoughts out before they slipped away.
I'm a bit of a lore beginner so sorry if this is already known or has been disproved. But I almost get the sense that Oryx himself was Taken when he communed with the "Deep". The fact that he called himself "The Taken King" could be read as either he is king of the Taken, or a king that has been Taken. Maybe it's some silly wordplay, but I guess it's similar to if someone was called "The Mad King". The obvious meaning would be that they were a king who was mad, but could also be read as them being king of the mad.
I think it kinda fits with how the Taken enemies are described in the Grimoire. They're described from a point of view that doesn't seem to be Oryx's. Eris says that when a being is Taken it is "made final", which reminds me of how the Darkness goes on and on about the "final shape". Perhaps being Taken means that the Darkness changes a being into the most deadly, "final" form that it can be.
Perhaps this is what happened to Aurash. He communed with the Deep, and was Taken by it and transformed into his "final shape", which was Oryx, the King who has been Taken. Perhaps Oryx was never really in control of his own actions, just as it seems that the rest of the Taken are slaves to some higher beings will.
Sorry if this rambling seems dumb though.
When you think about it, that eerily kind tone in the taken grimoire cards does actually really echo the way that ghost talked to us in the pyramid when he was being controlled by the darkness.
I think it's almost safe to speculate that they are both working together. Osiris was attacked by one of Xivu's Kinghts and Sagira killed, but Savathûn possessed/inhabited him and manipulated the city. Obviously Savathûn would not be able to do that is Sagira was alive. Other theorists are linking the ahamkara egg, the tech witches, the 15th wish (which was made at the end of the raid IMO), with removing Savathûn's worm. What if Savathûn wants Riven (yeah, she's dead but ahamkara don't truly die completely). So far I am liking this season more than the others.