I should run Thrust over Talents because Thrust can search Talents? But this only works if the opponent controls a monster... So it doesn't work going first - this is a major weakness in the Thrust = better Talents mindset. Talents is better than Thrust going first pre-side. If I get Ashed and I have a Thrust in hand going first, I'm not punishing with a hand rip or a draw 2. The best I get in that scenario pre-side in TCG (or at all in many MD decks) is an Imperm. Post side it's a different story if I'm running D Barrier or something though. And to your point about Talents drawing a Talents - the draw 2 effect of Talents is the worst of its three effects. In order for this to come up you need to: a) Have talents in hand b) Have talents be live c) Be in such a bad situation you need to resolve the draw 2 d) Actually draw the second Talents. The probability of you drawing a second Talents is much lower than, say, running multiple pot of desires because of this context. HAVING SAID THAT - I strongly agree that 3 of both is horrible overkill. In my experience playing a total of 2 or 3 of either is the best for most decks, and a total of 4 for some decks. 1:1 thrust:talents or 1:2 or 2:2 is probably the best approach depending on how well your deck can utilise the drawback of thrust going first.
@@bleauh love this comment as this is great counter comment to my video that helps players and gives a GREAT second opinion of my video. Your counter response provides GREAT INSIGHT to the other side and is something I didn't discuss. I am going to Pin this for visibility. Want to say thrust still shouldn't be slept on because even if they don't control a monster we can still set turn ending cards like dementional barrier or daruma karma cannon or if we don't want to add them for having better turn 1s a simple imperm can do wonders. Currently, If they use harpy feather duster or lighting storm to remove Dbarrier I call synchro because tenpais the meta threat.
I don't know if i entirely agree with the draw 2 being the worst effect (the change of heart effect means nothing if you're going first), but I do agree that the Forceful Sentry effect is the strongest of the three. The biggest issue with the draw effect is that if you're running a deck that's already highly consistent, then your deck doesn't really need it unless you're trying to grab some non-engine pieces. Plus the Mulcharmies (along with Maxx "C" in master duel) only exacerbates this issue since they're mostly useful going second, so you wouldn't want to even draw it off of Talents. Now all of a sudden, the only context where you'd even want to run Talents during game 2-3 is if you side out the mulcharmies. However, i will say that if you're having to play under the Mulcharmies going first, that Sentry effect suddenly becomes a lot worse. At that point, you may as well just play 1 Prosperity, 2-3 Thrust and forego Talents entirely to try and increase your shot at grabbing whatever it is you need going first. There's a reason Konami moved it to 1, that spell completely warped how we build decks and its why I had to put Thrust to 1 in my alt format also. I personally liked having Prosperity at 3, but i recognize nowadays that it was poor game balancing. At least with it at 1 copy, the banish 3-6 feels like an actual cost now.
Personally Thrust increases in value for going first when you have other search targets that are beneficial if set. Even an Imperm may not be amazing, but still adds to your endbord. Some archetypal traps offer more mileage such as Tearlaments metanoise which is especially good if the handtrap was something like Maxx C that cuts your turn shorter than you'd want as it allows you to fire off additional plays next turn.
@@JessePerezStrategyGaming underrated target for setting turn 1 with Thrust is probably DD Ground since it's still useful if your opponent pre-emtively goes for your backrow with Duster, HS or something else. Daruma feels worse, D Barrier you can always shotgun as well, but calling it blind may end up meaning it was useless.
Another great video Jesse! This is definitely an important thing to consider in deckbuilding because most cards nowadays have a hard once per turn clause attached to them. Drawing multiples in older formats were much less of an issue not only because cards didn’t have the hard OPT clauses on them, but also because games would go on for more turns to be able to use the duplicate cards
You hit the nail on the head! The game evolved a bunch since playground yugioh! It is a lot more about optimizing around turn 1 these days and perfect hand compositions with perfecting going 2nd with ratios to maximize the amount of live cards you can use to play around whatever board your OP set up turn 1.
I love how we often have similar logics behind deckbuilding My preferred ratio As a Master Duel player Is the 1 Talents you get for free, then 1 or 2 Thrust. The only deck I ever play 3 Thrust in is Branded.
Id never run more than 1 Talents if I had it, Id rather just run Thrust to search it out, or a better target like D barrier or Imperm Fusion Dupe or Black Goat Laughs for Branded 👀
ah great minds think alike! Yeah thrust in branded does have that added benefit of finding branded fusion or even some of the weirder traps like "fusion duplication" which can be set by thrust for some good follow up.
It's basically "Pick your poison", either you brick more with 3 ofs or you just lose more because you didn't have an out (the former might even be better since you're not losing any time and can concede on turn 1). Can you make a video where you play two variants of the same deck for a while (one with regular building and one with less duplicates) and see which one gets more wins in the end? And maybe keep track of the number of turns for each duel so we can see what's really the best tactic.
All of deckbuilding is "pick your poison." You always should ask yourself when seeing 3 ofs is too much or when is seeing 2 ofs too little. Even staples or handtraps are not exempt to this line of reasoning.
Ye...yeah? It's a tcg. Even if you run the perfect ratio, 1 well timed interupt or one time not hitting that draw. And all your made up math is useless at the losers table.
I mean this in the most respectful and admirable way possible, you are a NERD good sir! ❤😂 This is a great video and I appreciate the math as somebody that cannot for the life of me handle a hypergeometric calculator! This definitely showed me I was on the right track with my thought on the exceptions that I have made to these ratios, even if my reasoning was a bit different. In my branded build, I run 3 thrust simply because it is SO useful for fusion duplication if you get stopped on branded fusion. The point about decks that can discard easily also happens to be a nice coincidence with that fact. Another deck that I run 3 thrust in is Tenpai - a going 2nd deck where thrust can also act as a way to get into your starters if they happen to get stopped. Being able to search gold sarc (banish blaster, add genroku) or terraforming is fantastic in Tenpai if you happen to get stopped on your normal summon, and it also gives the deck a good amount of access to the swiss army knife of different board breakers my particular build uses. I believe I'm using 3 thrust and 2 talents in the current build I went with, which just *felt* right, for lack of better terms or actual math. Awesome video my man, helped elucidate a lot of things about deck building and ratios for me. This is an easy slam dunk subscription from me. 👌
yes! I love prank kids! l believe it! Maximizing your chances that ALL of your cards were live so that no doubt caused you to go far in the tourney! CONGRATS!
When u said “fluffy fluff” 😂 that caught me off guard. But ur right bout’ the ratios n stuff. Not good at math but i “kinda” understood it especially “op” deck.
Mimighoul is 2 of those exception decks at once! Not only does it put monsters in the field and force monster effect activations, it also has 2 one-card combo normal spells in Mimighoul Maker and Terraforming for Dungeon. So of course I run both triptacs at 3 copies XD
Thanks for the analysis. My thought is it seems like every "good" deck is an exception. What meta deck doesn't have a one card combo? In the TCG right now, I feel like these cards are always live. You don't have to hope your opponent interacts, they will. On the other hand, if you don't interact on your opponent's turn vs Fiendsmith, Maliss, Ryzeal, etc decks you probably going to lose, so you must play into TTT and hope they do not have it. You can pry 3 Thrust 1 Talent from my cold, dead, hands. This is the card that wins game 2 and 3.
Convenient video falls short... Made 2 going 2nd list (Yubel & Danger DW) and forgot such essential card(s)... The burden of 2/3 Evenly will be aliviated (2/2 is my go to thou) Have a great day man
Going 2nd searching Evenly Matched with thrust after you exhausted your opponets omninegates/trap negates is game winning strategy! You could even remove 1 evenly for a 3rd thrust and it would probably better opimize your list but i would have to see the whole thing etc. Evenly is such a strong card in the right formats. - and thank you! I hope you have a great day as well!
Thank you so much TTTs are the only cards I've been having issues with when I wanna run them because sometimes you wanna see them and sometimes don't want to see multiple 😂 Me playing in ocg territory for long they taught me that 1 of each feels perfect and honestly is not bad but still running into the issue of not seeing them often I still run 3 thrust and 1 talent in my grass deck because I wanna add grass This video is really amazing thank you 😍 👏
Yeah of each is not bad ratios either - but often the thrust is so versatile bumping it to 2 really helps its visibility and the versatility of the deck grabbing all different options and traps like evenly, karma cannon or an imperm is so helpful too.
also 3 thrusts in your grass deck sounds perfect! to help us grab the grass is greener which often wins on its own if its resolved! - and Thank you for the kind words!
While there are a lot of exceptions to this rule, you are not far off base and i know if i make a video saying this my comment section would be NUTS if i say this publicly. lol.
I’m generally a going 2nd player. Even in my 60-card builds I don’t recommend more than 2 of each. For the very same reason you alluded to a couple times: it requires your opponent to activate a monster eff on your own turn. Quite often I find myself in situations where that just doesn’t happen. On top of that, seeing multiples of them is brutal.
So what I found to be good most of the time (Thrust/Talent): 2/1 in 40 cards 3/2 in 60 cards 3/1 in g2nd decks that can start their combo with a normal spell 3/0 decks that dedicate slots to it like Daruma/Blackgoat/DBarrier. 2/2 in 50 card decks. 0/3 specifically in Runick if you like 1/1 specifically in Striker
You could had start with Pankratops to try to force them the Evolzar so your talents can be live, plus if you out them with Pank effect you have Ulti Slayer for next turn
That's true! I didn't even think of that line I was just excited to use slayer. Also, I just get scared with dinos because I know if i summon to much ultimate conductor tyranno is going to somehow make an appearance next turn try to flip all my monsters facedown and hit them all. Plus I wasn't too familar with the dino lines that actually use the Xenosaur lines so I wasn't sure what to expect. Luckily, it worked out either way when they saw the advantage I was going to get.
I do feel like Handtraps will be activated 100 percent all of the time so cards like Thrust and Talent will be always live. Thrust can also search out board breakers like Change of Heart, Mind Control, Dark Ruler No More or Gordian Schneider to allow more flexibilty to the player. 100 % agree that these shouldn't be run at 3 because it can be an awkward hand in some games. It would be funny to set a "Witch's Strike" using Thrust during your turn as like a warning to your opponent. "Go Ahead Negate Me I Dare you " moment. But yeah very Informative video on these two staples. Keep up the Amazing videos. 💯🔥
One thing you should mention is about running 2 talents and 2 thrusts, since if you draw both you can use them at the same turn. Specially now with mulcharmies in MD, they are easily active
Well its interesting because in one of the replays it showcases just that and funny enough only the Thrust was turned on because he did alot of his manipulation in the Standby phase - but then when i activated by bait thrust he used ash to turn on the talents in hand. So they do have a good relationship when together but its also deadly because until they are turned on or if you go first your left with a 3 card hand! Which is why if your going 1st you should be playing something that has high consitancy 1 card combo or discard fodder decks like runick, horus and/or purrely that can discard the excess fluff if they don't activate anything.
by doing that you're running the risk of drawing 2 talents which is worse than drawing 2 thrust. as stated in the video thrust is more forgiving so in a worse case scenario i would rather have 2 thrusts in my opening hand
@@oniichandayo okay you run the small risk of drawing 2 talents but you see talents more often are you going to win more games by seeing talents more often or losing by drawing 1 dupe
There was a period of time when kashtira just got released and everyone was playing kashtira or purrely (epurrely noir not released yet). Both decks do not put up an omninegate and run out of followup quite easily once the board is cleared. Also Shangri and expurrely noir will activate during the standby phase but not the main phase. I created a blind second 40 card deck with 3 thrusts, 1 talents and 3 evenly matched which gives me a 65% chance to access evenly matched. The main idea is to resolve evenly, leaving them with 1 boss monster and then play kaijius and herald of the abyss to clear the board. Kashtira would need to topdeck unicorn or birth and purrely would have used up all 3 purrelys and can only top deck another purrelyly, which was easy to counter with cards like dogmatika punishment. Once I got to the simplified game state, it was an easy win. The only problem with the strat is that sometimes Kashtira would brick.
I don't like when people say "play 1 talents" you should always run it at 2+. It also depends on the deck count as well. But talents is one of those cards you WANNA see because we are in a hand trap format and its good going 1st or second so its almost always live but there are hand traps that can just be played during your standby so its good but not broken af. Still worth playing at 3 if you want too. thrust is almost always live especially if you main deck a flood gate so 1 or 2 thrust, again depending on your deck count.
So by your logic, White Forest fits under the list of exceptions due to its inherent need to discard spells/traps for the engine? Trying to build a White Forest Azamina deck currently and the ratios with these spell cards does have me in a pickle. Was going to run triple tactics, triple droplets, and triple dark ruler no more in addition to the white Forest/Sinful Spoils cards I’m running. Have been tinkering with the idea of trimming some to add and Ultimate Slayer or Cosmic Cyclone. Curious if anyone has any input.
Another Ken and Gen tech in Tachyon is summoning Primal to their side, activating talents and thrust because its on the opp's field. Too bad it bricks like a mf lmao
Ahh thats a GREAT EXAMPLE of those kind of decks though! Another person in the comments mentioned Mimighoul as well that summons to their side. So alot of good ones here!
Hey thanks for another great video! And also sorry I wasn't subscribed completely forgot that and made sure to fix it lmao. And I fully agree with you here. I usually just run Tactics but maybe I can throw in thrust if I add back stuff like D-Barrier or other good traps to stop my opponent in case I get maxx C'd and can't stop it. Since thrust isn't as good going first but I build my deck for both. Speaking of which there's actually a topic you brought up that I want to discuss furyher: When you mentionec Ghost Ogre being really good this format. I did too and slotted it into my deck and I'll get a second copy after C gets semi'd and hopefully a third soon but maybe just 2 is fine. But this brought up something intriguing to me especially as some who plays a deck that can comfortably go first or second: Which is better hand traps or board breakers? I recently removed my 2 copies of Raigeki to add imperm and I've been just stopping my opponent's plays easier either way. It's almost better than a board breaker to me because some fields like Tearlaments for example require a heck of a lot more to break. So I actually wanted to ask you for your opinion as the only board break I tun rn is droplets because it's the best one especially since I can ditch cards I need in my GY. Do you think it's better to just load up more on handtraps like Ogre, imperm, etc than board breakers? And if or if not which ones are better in a best of 1 format like Master Duel?
@@Prince_Zero-10 so it really depends on the deck. Like in the example I showcased there was actually ANTI-synergy with Ghost Ogre and Ultimate slayer. so learning that I might want to not play them together in the future. But realisitcally alot of handtraps WILL have anti synergy with board breakers. And then you have hybrids like Imperm which kind of functions as BOTH a boardbreaker And a handtrap so it's very interesting. In the end it should resolve around meta and personal preference. If there is a low amount of FTKs or Floodgate locks then I think the Rageki approach is superior as you get more card advantage with cards like raigeki & evenly matched. But if there is many ftks running amok then the handtraps might be more valuable. In either event cards that can function BOTH as good going 1st and going 2nd cards like imperm and Forbidden Droplet probably have the most utility in a going 2nd deck and should be priotized.
@@JessePerezStrategyGaming Oh wow thank you for the response! And yeah that actually makes a lot of sense. I figured it'd depend a lot based on the deck. Personally ghost ogre is preferable as I run a deck that can easily board break but floodgates stop me fast. As for imperm it's always an on/off relationship for me. Because on one hand it can negate any non targetting card and it won't make either TTT live. But it feels a little bricky sometimes. Thanks for the response!
Would white forest azamina be excusable enough to run 3 and 3 going second,since they need spells to send to activate and end up getting it back with the diabell synchro? Would like to get your opinion. Great video btw love your content
For Masterduel or best of 1 formats, I think Talents is better than thrust unless you have an archetypal trap/quickplay to search. The comparitive advantage of having 1 imperm vs talents being able to gurantee the follow through of your combo, which normally can search your trap anyway, aswell as set up some other interruption or recursion is massive. For this I think talents is generically better and should be played at the higher ratio- 2 talents generically is best.
That seems like a great fit. I like that ratios go to 3 instead of 2 there because the 60 cards will bury alot of the thrusts. Sounds like a smart and solid build!
I have alot of going 2nd decks i use for ladder. This particular one was just a halfhazard deck i put together in 3 minutes for the Theme Chronical and to showcase the Thrust/Talent relationships and some ken/gen combos and how they turn it on and work symbiotically with the thrust & talent to turn it on. You can see the ladder deck I actually use in my going 2nd video. its a dogmatika albazoa going 2nd deck and i love it. But i ladder with all kinds of unique and relatively rogue decks like pure ragnarika, ninjas, ghoti, nouvelles, etc. It makes getting to masters I every season a fun challenge.
I find these videos interesting. As far as the exceptions go, would White Forest be one of them (especially for Thrust)? Triple Tactics Thrust in White Forest has the extra bonus of setting a WF Spell/Trap that can be sent from the field as cost for their monsters, then reset for later use, plus Diabell, Queen of the White Forest can retrieve spells/traps from the grave. Would this be enough justification for a 3 Thrust/1 or 2 Talent ratio? I tend to love numbers myself, always look at them in deckbuilding, since I have the absolute worst luck. If you want outlier ratios, I've got some for you!
Yes! thats a great example of an exception deck! Another person in the comments also mentioned Mimighoul as example because it makes your opponet activate cards on the field on their side as well so very interesting. There are over 900 archtypes so I know I def forgot a bunch of exceptions! In your specific example I could certainly see doing a 3/1 Thurst/Talent ratio because thrust on its own can also set WOES which is a super powerful trap even if they dont control a monster.
I already know it's stupid to run both Talents and Thrust at 3. Mainly because both cards have a situational activation condition that depends on your opponent doing stuff. they can become bricks depending on the opponent. Yes they have powerful effects and yes their action conditions are common. But not guaranteed. And that alone justifies not running either at 3. For me personally. I run Talents at 2 and Thrust at 1 and it does me just fine. Sometimes I won't even run Thrust at all and sometimes I run only 1 Talents and I still do just fine
you might need to double check your math... 1.64% chance of seeing 2 if your running 3 in a 60 card deck going 1st with a 5 card hand. thats just a rounding error, but more importantly, who calculates going first for thrust and talents? they are mainly going second cards!
Reran my math for that one - you are 100% CORRECT! The math to see EXACTLY 2 should be 1.607%. The math to see AT LEAST 2 was 1.636% which i rounded to 1.64%. Apologies and GREAT EYE! and thank you for double checking me! I accidently applied AT LEAST math to that one which i shouldn't have because I was talking about EXACTLY lol To the 2nd point who is using TTT going 1st its mainly players that are uneducated/new, and players that spent over $500 in TCG for all 6 playsets of thrust and talents when they came out and now they are realizing that they don't need to have bought full playsets. The amount of people on ladder on MD running the 3/3 full package of thrust and TTT or online decklists is staggering and actually is what prompted me to make the video. someone posted in a facebook group his decklist - or i really should say bricklist of a going 1st HERO decklist that has the 3/3 package and full of other bricks/garnets as well.
Queue me playing zombie 60 pile with Thrust at 3, praying I get Ashed or something so I can grab Grass Looks Greener. In most other decks I just play both at 1 copy or just one of the two at 1 copy.
Sorry to bring that up, but isn't the ration for drawing 1 copy of a card out of a 40 card deck with a 5 card hand: 1/40 + 1/39 + 1/38 + 1/37 + 1/36 = 13.18% Because you change the amount of cards in the deck every time you draw one card and that also change the probability of drawing the specific you want.
It's much simpler than that. If you have just 1 card in a 5 card hand for a 40 card deck: it's either in the hand or the deck. It's a 5/40 chance to be in the hand =12.5% Or it's a 35/40 chance to still be in the deck = 87.5% The calculations your doing is slightly off because you need to do the inverse. If you wanted to do it the correct way going about it your way aka the hard math we would have to use this equation 1-(39÷40)×(38÷39)×(37÷38)×(36÷37)×(35÷36) = 12.5%
Your equation is incorrect also because your adding the percentages when the should be getting multiplied. For example if you kept doing it your lway you would get over 100% when you got to around 15 cards left in the deck which is impossible.
The real reason why not to run playsets of Trust and Talents; because both are UR, and to have enough gems to not run default duel field and naked cards like at 17:12
using thrust just to search tactics? ARE YOU INSANE? it's the last card you would search it is used to search blow out traps and side deck cards like dimensional barrier, ddg, fusion duplication etc or going second to get sky striker engage, a fiendsmith starter for the ryzeol deck or even malice and unchained traps
2 talents feels optimal in my 50 card deck. 3 is just too cloggy. If Jesse cotton says 2 if you don't want to always draw it, then I'll just have to classify talents as a "don't want to always draw it" type of card. As for thrust? I really just don't like that card.
@@dvynal2964 That seems fine. That means you have better chances of seeing talents going 2nd. I was considering doing that, except I don't run many things I'd like to thrust for. There is the side deck, but at that point I would just run it thrust at 3 because thats the whole point of the thrust package.
Really helps because I hated bricked on multiples of both of these. Hey Jesse, what's your opinion on Small World, do you think it's a great card, would you make a video on that and how versatile it is?
That seems like a great idea! Small world is a GREAT card in the decks that have a starter but no searchers for it. (mostly rouge and untiered decks) So it flys under the radar alot of the time. Most modern support does have searchers or even a "searcher FOR the searcher!" But for alot of decks it CAN and IS viable and a strong card to use! Also, it does have the added utility to grab ANY card in the deck so it can grab handtraps - techs etc at the cost of 1 card so there is certainly a place for it in alot of decks.
@@luizalex.7424 all the premium handtraps work ash, belle and ogre are level 3. Droll and veiler are spllcasters. So it's perfect. Just go Any ht into ht into enchantress
I would say it would be deck dependent on the 60 card deck. If its a GRASS is Greener type deck then easily we know we want 3 thrust and 1 talents. But if its a deck that can do 1 card combos like branded and does alot of interactions I could see running 3 thrust 2 talents.
Going off the top of my head with the spelling and names of some of these so be lenient on my spelling. For links - its the 2 tribrigade cards Ferijit & Bephaulus III ( he sends garura to draw one) For fusions - Garura or N'tss are tier 1 but there are some of the fossil monsters are also good secondary to throw to the GY For Synchros - Pegasus ignister & psy frame omega For XYZs its - Meteror Aggrigator. (if your a water deck its Toadally awesome) I have a video that briefly goes over the best targets it might be in my going 2nd video or a tech card video but im not sure which one exactly.
3 to 1 or 3 to 2 if you can make use of both their effects well. You want to Have the gens in your hand at 3 and then summon the kens - The one that let's you draw 2 and discard 1 ( you'll run them at 1 or 2) Also you can link our gens into an almeraj, then turn almeraj into a link guardna putting a ED monster in the GY. This turns on dogmatika maximus which is a good card to run also with them.
To me - ice barrier is EXTREMELY similar to Rescue Ace. In that if you get their big boss monster out he can generate alot of advantage. But BOTH decks have to play like 3-4 bricks that are powerful but are searched/summoned. So they have a lot in common. If anything i think the problem is the bricks that ice-barrier has to play so they can ss them on the opponents turn. Ice barrier has some of the strongest synchro climbing cards and some really good effects. Mirror is super strong! So its basically a high risk high reward deck does great going first but can also struggle going 2nd because of the garnets/bricks.
It also depends strongly on the meta you are playing. Right now everybody is throwing handtraps left and right + talents e.g. is very good right now. I play 2 talents and 0 thrusts in my pure ryzeal deck in the moment. Went to locals last weekend and experienced that 1 talents is way to less... but even with math and or experience in the end destiny will decide what happens 😅
Man I love your content, probably my favorite now since I became an MD only duelist. By the by, are you planning on organizing community tournaments or events? I'd love to participate in any of them. Cheers from MX!
Yes! I do have a tournament in the backburner being planned with some of my mods. Were ironing out the kinks to that but it should be a fun one and unique too!
@@JessePerezStrategyGaming Aces! you mentioned mods so I'm assuming it will be arranged via discord or something similar? Is there any link I can click to join?
yeah but besides ash that effect negates to add, most spell negates or omnis that interact with thrust and talents are activation negation not effect negation so if you have another copy is still live. this math is okey-ish
The odds of drawing 3 of the same cards in a 60 card deck seem much higher than 0.03%... i swear I draw 3 copies once every 3-4 days in my 60 card pile. It's roughly 1 in 30 matches from my experience, I'm not arguing against math but I think the master duel shuffle is rigged
12:15 I'm glad you pointed out that Swordsoul isn't a 1 card combo deck. Some internet communities and other yugitubers say that Swordsoul and Blue-Eyes are "1.5" combo decks or something silly like that but they absolutely need 2 cards to start their standard combos. It's madness.
"1.5 card combo" means you need 1 card, though often a specific card, and another that for paying a cost, meaningg the 0.5 or second card could be anything else. A 2 card combo requires 2 exact cards to pop off, meaning you have to somehow get to those 2 specifically to combo.
Yeah - Its crazy the amount of decks i see posted online or on ladder running a 40 card 3-3 FULL package of thrusts and talent in decks and then they wonder why Super Mario is on route to their location because their hands are made of Bricks and hes coming to collect the coins.
Now when the "rich kid" flaunts his 3 TTT and 3 Thursts at your locals you can silently laugh as he bricks so much he could start his own masonry business.
Like the fact the exceptions remove 90% of deck so basically the video almost useless and if you go as meta deck basically everything falls into exception. Like White Forest the topping list don't play either, Labrynth can set half their deck of thrust and don't play it, Mermail play 1-3. What i love about mathematic players they think they solved deck building but have 0 proof to back it up because they haven't achieved anything in the game. Because these are all decks that have won or topped events consistently and goes against this whole video
yes 100% white forest would fall under the exception because they can make use of the spells as discard fodder - This video also will find little value to the 1% pros or those really advanced in math - its really for the people who posts their decklists on facebook of their blue eyes brick pile with 3/3 talents thrust and wonder why they are bricking so much they are making Masons jeaolous. Or just people like myself that just like to look at numbers and ratios and just make our jank rouge decks a little better.
Bruh top players absolutely use math for their ratios. If you ever watch deck profiles, they explain the logic behind their picks. Listen carefully to the cards that didn't work out or cards that they saw too much of. Those are cards that are the wrong ratios. But most of the time, they'll test the absolute hell out of their decks to figure all that out.
There's no math here. It's just random. I sometimes open only engine cards. And other times only hand traps. So math out the window. Just build your deck as you feel. Unless you are a competitve player in which case you are already a pro and don't need this crap.
Bruh I find your vids interesting but genuine question what are your tops, like this video is one of the least controversial in terms of the maths but like put your tops on the table to be speaking with this authority on it. Like it’s all good doing the maths but I wanna hear tournament experience to back it up, no good just looking at numbers without experience at a decent level man, numbers don’t mean shit without some results to back it up, it’s as good as me doing a goblin biker test hand saying “oh this deck is broken look at this end board” without considering interrupts
I have 0 tops nor regionals to my name because I never went lol. So at the same time I also have no losses either. 😀 I have been doing mathematical videos as a hobby since wayy before yugioh doing videos on Auto Chess, Second Galaxy (Eve clone), RPGs etc. But when it comes to math - that's my specialty and I feel i can talk 100% as an authority greater than someone with 100 tops when it comes to math. I do not like to brag nor boost so i humbly present my credentials. I tutored AP statistics in my undergraduate - I graduated law school and passed the BAR. Worked as contracts manager and currently work for my city. Humbly speaking, With my mathematical background i feel I could speak to the numbers more accurately then most. With all that said - I am NO pro player. I play this game as a hobby and make videos for fun not my livelihood. I sometimes lose due to time ⏲️. And make slightly suboptimal plays. With that said I still get to masters with random jank strategies. I am a masters player probably in the top 10%. But nowhere in the league of Jesse Kotton or Joshua Smidt who are the top 1%. I am a Chess Master while they are Chess Grandmasters. But I feel that I can talk about things they cannot. Math, hypergeometric calculations, and probability. In any event, thank you for the comment and thanks for watching - i really do appreciate you taking the time and question which i think everyone SHOULD do from time to time and CHALLENGE whats presented.
Also I love to admit when I am wrong or put other views on display. Even now, I pinned the comment that has the best "OTHER SIDE" response because my goal is to further everyone's knowledge. and i 100% fact know that i do not know everything and forget some aspects. 10.000+ cards is alot to remember! so there are some things that could fall through the cracks but if we POOL our knowledge instead of hording it we can better the community.
@JessePerezStrategyGaming I'm one of those people that like subtitles actually. So I'm used to read them while watching. Some of the (probably) speech to text mistakes are pretty distracting I do have to say
This Video is so bad lmao. Thrust is a signfiicanly worse card than Talents , since Talents is insne going first and solid going 2nd while thurst is horribl going first and for most decks doesnt even do anything else apart from searching talent , making the deck play worse into ash and droll etc. So this 2-1 rule is obv bs. Also this gmeplay video is horrible. you are playing against low rated player that randomly scoop for no reason + you are using your handtraps like a bot , instead or using it properly. also the deck shown in this video is straight up garbage wihtout a win condition.
you might have missed the part where i said I made a suboptimal deck for the event on purpose and NOT to use it to climb ladder. - that it would get you diamond AT BEST. The point was to actually test the math and how the exceptions felt EVEN when i was using decks with exceptions. and form how they played out it was really hard to get my tactics live even with decks built forcing the interactions. Like I said too in the video there are ALWAYS exceptions. Talents can be more useful then thrusts in certain situations no doubt I 100% agree. But unfortuneately, we CANNOT choose if were going 1st for 2nd with 100% certainty. So main decking on a random chance the thrust has better value becasue its better going 2nd AND is reasonable going 1st.
I should run Thrust over Talents because Thrust can search Talents?
But this only works if the opponent controls a monster... So it doesn't work going first - this is a major weakness in the Thrust = better Talents mindset. Talents is better than Thrust going first pre-side.
If I get Ashed and I have a Thrust in hand going first, I'm not punishing with a hand rip or a draw 2. The best I get in that scenario pre-side in TCG (or at all in many MD decks) is an Imperm. Post side it's a different story if I'm running D Barrier or something though.
And to your point about Talents drawing a Talents - the draw 2 effect of Talents is the worst of its three effects. In order for this to come up you need to:
a) Have talents in hand
b) Have talents be live
c) Be in such a bad situation you need to resolve the draw 2
d) Actually draw the second Talents.
The probability of you drawing a second Talents is much lower than, say, running multiple pot of desires because of this context.
HAVING SAID THAT - I strongly agree that 3 of both is horrible overkill. In my experience playing a total of 2 or 3 of either is the best for most decks, and a total of 4 for some decks. 1:1 thrust:talents or 1:2 or 2:2 is probably the best approach depending on how well your deck can utilise the drawback of thrust going first.
@@bleauh love this comment as this is great counter comment to my video that helps players and gives a GREAT second opinion of my video. Your counter response provides GREAT INSIGHT to the other side and is something I didn't discuss. I am going to Pin this for visibility.
Want to say thrust still shouldn't be slept on because even if they don't control a monster we can still set turn ending cards like dementional barrier or daruma karma cannon or if we don't want to add them for having better turn 1s a simple imperm can do wonders.
Currently, If they use harpy feather duster or lighting storm to remove Dbarrier I call synchro because tenpais the meta threat.
I don't know if i entirely agree with the draw 2 being the worst effect (the change of heart effect means nothing if you're going first), but I do agree that the Forceful Sentry effect is the strongest of the three.
The biggest issue with the draw effect is that if you're running a deck that's already highly consistent, then your deck doesn't really need it unless you're trying to grab some non-engine pieces. Plus the Mulcharmies (along with Maxx "C" in master duel) only exacerbates this issue since they're mostly useful going second, so you wouldn't want to even draw it off of Talents. Now all of a sudden, the only context where you'd even want to run Talents during game 2-3 is if you side out the mulcharmies.
However, i will say that if you're having to play under the Mulcharmies going first, that Sentry effect suddenly becomes a lot worse. At that point, you may as well just play 1 Prosperity, 2-3 Thrust and forego Talents entirely to try and increase your shot at grabbing whatever it is you need going first. There's a reason Konami moved it to 1, that spell completely warped how we build decks and its why I had to put Thrust to 1 in my alt format also. I personally liked having Prosperity at 3, but i recognize nowadays that it was poor game balancing. At least with it at 1 copy, the banish 3-6 feels like an actual cost now.
Personally Thrust increases in value for going first when you have other search targets that are beneficial if set.
Even an Imperm may not be amazing, but still adds to your endbord.
Some archetypal traps offer more mileage such as Tearlaments metanoise which is especially good if the handtrap was something like Maxx C that cuts your turn shorter than you'd want as it allows you to fire off additional plays next turn.
Thrust can always set a normal trap turn 1, so it can be great or mid still, it's only bad if you have nothing decent to set off of it.
@@JessePerezStrategyGaming underrated target for setting turn 1 with Thrust is probably DD Ground since it's still useful if your opponent pre-emtively goes for your backrow with Duster, HS or something else. Daruma feels worse, D Barrier you can always shotgun as well, but calling it blind may end up meaning it was useless.
The proper ratio for me is 2 talents 1 thrust because that's what I can afford.
Now you got me thinking I should have done a cost analysis ratio breakdown too! :D
Exactly the same
@@JessePerezStrategyGaming its time to do youtube shorts. Your time is now.
Exactly my ratio, too, and I'm super lucky, the thrust is an ulti from the OTS pack
Exactly the same here
Another great video Jesse! This is definitely an important thing to consider in deckbuilding because most cards nowadays have a hard once per turn clause attached to them.
Drawing multiples in older formats were much less of an issue not only because cards didn’t have the hard OPT clauses on them, but also because games would go on for more turns to be able to use the duplicate cards
You hit the nail on the head! The game evolved a bunch since playground yugioh! It is a lot more about optimizing around turn 1 these days and perfect hand compositions with perfecting going 2nd with ratios to maximize the amount of live cards you can use to play around whatever board your OP set up turn 1.
The Chanel I didn’t know I needed. Thanks man! Great vid
Thanks for the kind words! Happy you enjoyed the video and found the channel :D
I love how we often have similar logics behind deckbuilding
My preferred ratio
As a Master Duel player
Is the 1 Talents you get for free, then 1 or 2 Thrust. The only deck I ever play 3 Thrust in is Branded.
Id never run more than 1 Talents if I had it, Id rather just run Thrust to search it out, or a better target like D barrier or Imperm
Fusion Dupe or Black Goat Laughs for Branded 👀
ah great minds think alike!
Yeah thrust in branded does have that added benefit of finding branded fusion or even some of the weirder traps like "fusion duplication" which can be set by thrust for some good follow up.
Ngl I knew it was going to be a load of things I overlooked when you opened with the "you cant draw the second if you only run 1" line
It's basically "Pick your poison", either you brick more with 3 ofs or you just lose more because you didn't have an out (the former might even be better since you're not losing any time and can concede on turn 1).
Can you make a video where you play two variants of the same deck for a while (one with regular building and one with less duplicates) and see which one gets more wins in the end? And maybe keep track of the number of turns for each duel so we can see what's really the best tactic.
All of deckbuilding is "pick your poison." You always should ask yourself when seeing 3 ofs is too much or when is seeing 2 ofs too little. Even staples or handtraps are not exempt to this line of reasoning.
Ye...yeah? It's a tcg.
Even if you run the perfect ratio, 1 well timed interupt or one time not hitting that draw.
And all your made up math is useless at the losers table.
Great video love to see all the math and number behind it all!! 💯
I mean this in the most respectful and admirable way possible, you are a NERD good sir! ❤😂
This is a great video and I appreciate the math as somebody that cannot for the life of me handle a hypergeometric calculator!
This definitely showed me I was on the right track with my thought on the exceptions that I have made to these ratios, even if my reasoning was a bit different. In my branded build, I run 3 thrust simply because it is SO useful for fusion duplication if you get stopped on branded fusion. The point about decks that can discard easily also happens to be a nice coincidence with that fact.
Another deck that I run 3 thrust in is Tenpai - a going 2nd deck where thrust can also act as a way to get into your starters if they happen to get stopped. Being able to search gold sarc (banish blaster, add genroku) or terraforming is fantastic in Tenpai if you happen to get stopped on your normal summon, and it also gives the deck a good amount of access to the swiss army knife of different board breakers my particular build uses. I believe I'm using 3 thrust and 2 talents in the current build I went with, which just *felt* right, for lack of better terms or actual math.
Awesome video my man, helped elucidate a lot of things about deck building and ratios for me. This is an easy slam dunk subscription from me. 👌
was this my reccomendation??????? AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! great video as always jesse.
Thank you! good to see i am getting recommended to people now :D
I remember I topped a regional with all 2 ofs with prankids. Every hand felt so so good.
yes! I love prank kids! l believe it! Maximizing your chances that ALL of your cards were live so that no doubt caused you to go far in the tourney! CONGRATS!
When u said “fluffy fluff” 😂 that caught me off guard. But ur right bout’ the ratios n stuff.
Not good at math but i “kinda” understood it especially “op” deck.
I freaking love your videos, I feel like a college class with the very cool teacher that loves his job
Mimighoul is 2 of those exception decks at once! Not only does it put monsters in the field and force monster effect activations, it also has 2 one-card combo normal spells in Mimighoul Maker and Terraforming for Dungeon. So of course I run both triptacs at 3 copies XD
@@Petsinwinter2 Thank you yes! It's a great Ken & Gen style example i eas forgetting!
Thanks for the analysis. My thought is it seems like every "good" deck is an exception. What meta deck doesn't have a one card combo? In the TCG right now, I feel like these cards are always live. You don't have to hope your opponent interacts, they will. On the other hand, if you don't interact on your opponent's turn vs Fiendsmith, Maliss, Ryzeal, etc decks you probably going to lose, so you must play into TTT and hope they do not have it. You can pry 3 Thrust 1 Talent from my cold, dead, hands. This is the card that wins game 2 and 3.
People will often try to play around triple tactics, depending on what they have, so it's not a given they'll be live
25:00 huh ? really good video as always btw . I love math takes in ygo
Convenient video falls short... Made 2 going 2nd list (Yubel & Danger DW) and forgot such essential card(s)... The burden of 2/3 Evenly will be aliviated
(2/2 is my go to thou)
Have a great day man
Going 2nd searching Evenly Matched with thrust after you exhausted your opponets omninegates/trap negates is game winning strategy! You could even remove 1 evenly for a 3rd thrust and it would probably better opimize your list but i would have to see the whole thing etc.
Evenly is such a strong card in the right formats.
- and thank you! I hope you have a great day as well!
Thank you so much
TTTs are the only cards I've been having issues with when I wanna run them because sometimes you wanna see them and sometimes don't want to see multiple 😂
Me playing in ocg territory for long they taught me that 1 of each feels perfect and honestly is not bad but still running into the issue of not seeing them often
I still run 3 thrust and 1 talent in my grass deck because I wanna add grass
This video is really amazing thank you 😍 👏
Yeah of each is not bad ratios either - but often the thrust is so versatile bumping it to 2 really helps its visibility and the versatility of the deck grabbing all different options and traps like evenly, karma cannon or an imperm is so helpful too.
also 3 thrusts in your grass deck sounds perfect! to help us grab the grass is greener which often wins on its own if its resolved! - and Thank you for the kind words!
Always stoked to see a new vid from you man, keep up the good work! 💪👍
All OPT Cards SHOULD BE played at 2 MAXIMUM in a 40 Cards Deck.
While there are a lot of exceptions to this rule, you are not far off base and i know if i make a video saying this my comment section would be NUTS if i say this publicly. lol.
I’m generally a going 2nd player. Even in my 60-card builds I don’t recommend more than 2 of each. For the very same reason you alluded to a couple times: it requires your opponent to activate a monster eff on your own turn. Quite often I find myself in situations where that just doesn’t happen. On top of that, seeing multiples of them is brutal.
So what I found to be good most of the time (Thrust/Talent):
2/1 in 40 cards
3/2 in 60 cards
3/1 in g2nd decks that can start their combo with a normal spell
3/0 decks that dedicate slots to it like Daruma/Blackgoat/DBarrier.
2/2 in 50 card decks.
0/3 specifically in Runick if you like
1/1 specifically in Striker
Striker plays 3 thrust because it’s more copies of engage
@ Striker has enough draw power where any more Thrust I feel like would brick you hard
Maybe the 2/1 split could be tried
At my locals half of the players are running Maliss that's why I play 1 Talent 3 thrust so I can side out Talent for Sanctum
You could had start with Pankratops to try to force them the Evolzar so your talents can be live, plus if you out them with Pank effect you have Ulti Slayer for next turn
That's true! I didn't even think of that line I was just excited to use slayer.
Also, I just get scared with dinos because I know if i summon to much ultimate conductor tyranno is going to somehow make an appearance next turn try to flip all my monsters facedown and hit them all. Plus I wasn't too familar with the dino lines that actually use the Xenosaur lines so I wasn't sure what to expect. Luckily, it worked out either way when they saw the advantage I was going to get.
Jesse Saying sus stuff challenge level impossible
I do feel like Handtraps will be activated 100 percent all of the time so cards like Thrust and Talent will be always live. Thrust can also search out board breakers like Change of Heart, Mind Control, Dark Ruler No More or Gordian Schneider to allow more flexibilty to the player. 100 % agree that these shouldn't be run at 3 because it can be an awkward hand in some games. It would be funny to set a "Witch's Strike" using Thrust during your turn as like a warning to your opponent. "Go Ahead Negate Me I Dare you " moment. But yeah very Informative video on these two staples. Keep up the Amazing videos. 💯🔥
One thing you should mention is about running 2 talents and 2 thrusts, since if you draw both you can use them at the same turn. Specially now with mulcharmies in MD, they are easily active
Well its interesting because in one of the replays it showcases just that and funny enough only the Thrust was turned on because he did alot of his manipulation in the Standby phase - but then when i activated by bait thrust he used ash to turn on the talents in hand. So they do have a good relationship when together but its also deadly because until they are turned on or if you go first your left with a 3 card hand! Which is why if your going 1st you should be playing something that has high consitancy 1 card combo or discard fodder decks like runick, horus and/or purrely that can discard the excess fluff if they don't activate anything.
by doing that you're running the risk of drawing 2 talents which is worse than drawing 2 thrust. as stated in the video thrust is more forgiving so in a worse case scenario i would rather have 2 thrusts in my opening hand
@@oniichandayo okay you run the small risk of drawing 2 talents but you see talents more often are you going to win more games by seeing talents more often or losing by drawing 1 dupe
There was a period of time when kashtira just got released and everyone was playing kashtira or purrely (epurrely noir not released yet). Both decks do not put up an omninegate and run out of followup quite easily once the board is cleared. Also Shangri and expurrely noir will activate during the standby phase but not the main phase. I created a blind second 40 card deck with 3 thrusts, 1 talents and 3 evenly matched which gives me a 65% chance to access evenly matched. The main idea is to resolve evenly, leaving them with 1 boss monster and then play kaijius and herald of the abyss to clear the board. Kashtira would need to topdeck unicorn or birth and purrely would have used up all 3 purrelys and can only top deck another purrelyly, which was easy to counter with cards like dogmatika punishment. Once I got to the simplified game state, it was an easy win. The only problem with the strat is that sometimes Kashtira would brick.
The correct ratio is 3 Thrusts and 3 Arm Offerings because Im a pile player and I need all the grass searchers I can
I don't like when people say "play 1 talents" you should always run it at 2+. It also depends on the deck count as well. But talents is one of those cards you WANNA see because we are in a hand trap format and its good going 1st or second so its almost always live but there are hand traps that can just be played during your standby so its good but not broken af. Still worth playing at 3 if you want too. thrust is almost always live especially if you main deck a flood gate so 1 or 2 thrust, again depending on your deck count.
I play one Tactics cause it came with the Master Duel Bundle
Mimighoul loves triple tactics cards cause the whole archetype triggers them
So by your logic, White Forest fits under the list of exceptions due to its inherent need to discard spells/traps for the engine? Trying to build a White Forest Azamina deck currently and the ratios with these spell cards does have me in a pickle. Was going to run triple tactics, triple droplets, and triple dark ruler no more in addition to the white Forest/Sinful Spoils cards I’m running. Have been tinkering with the idea of trimming some to add and Ultimate Slayer or Cosmic Cyclone. Curious if anyone has any input.
Great video, I’m playing a 40 card going second deck with board breakers…what’s the correct ratio of thrusts and talents to play in main? Thanks!!
20:40 how did he summon Sheou using two small Dragonmainds? Neither Chamber nor Parlour is level 5 or above.
white forest is a good deck to run thrust at 3, with the effects to send to grave and diabelle can add any spell trap from the grave
Another Ken and Gen tech in Tachyon is summoning Primal to their side, activating talents and thrust because its on the opp's field. Too bad it bricks like a mf lmao
Ahh thats a GREAT EXAMPLE of those kind of decks though! Another person in the comments mentioned Mimighoul as well that summons to their side. So alot of good ones here!
Hey thanks for another great video! And also sorry I wasn't subscribed completely forgot that and made sure to fix it lmao.
And I fully agree with you here. I usually just run Tactics but maybe I can throw in thrust if I add back stuff like D-Barrier or other good traps to stop my opponent in case I get maxx C'd and can't stop it. Since thrust isn't as good going first but I build my deck for both.
Speaking of which there's actually a topic you brought up that I want to discuss furyher: When you mentionec Ghost Ogre being really good this format. I did too and slotted it into my deck and I'll get a second copy after C gets semi'd and hopefully a third soon but maybe just 2 is fine.
But this brought up something intriguing to me especially as some who plays a deck that can comfortably go first or second: Which is better hand traps or board breakers? I recently removed my 2 copies of Raigeki to add imperm and I've been just stopping my opponent's plays easier either way. It's almost better than a board breaker to me because some fields like Tearlaments for example require a heck of a lot more to break. So I actually wanted to ask you for your opinion as the only board break I tun rn is droplets because it's the best one especially since I can ditch cards I need in my GY.
Do you think it's better to just load up more on handtraps like Ogre, imperm, etc than board breakers? And if or if not which ones are better in a best of 1 format like Master Duel?
@@Prince_Zero-10 so it really depends on the deck. Like in the example I showcased there was actually ANTI-synergy with Ghost Ogre and Ultimate slayer. so learning that I might want to not play them together in the future. But realisitcally alot of handtraps WILL have anti synergy with board breakers. And then you have hybrids like Imperm which kind of functions as BOTH a boardbreaker And a handtrap so it's very interesting. In the end it should resolve around meta and personal preference. If there is a low amount of FTKs or Floodgate locks then I think the Rageki approach is superior as you get more card advantage with cards like raigeki & evenly matched. But if there is many ftks running amok then the handtraps might be more valuable.
In either event cards that can function BOTH as good going 1st and going 2nd cards like imperm and Forbidden Droplet probably have the most utility in a going 2nd deck and should be priotized.
@@JessePerezStrategyGaming
Oh wow thank you for the response! And yeah that actually makes a lot of sense. I figured it'd depend a lot based on the deck. Personally ghost ogre is preferable as I run a deck that can easily board break but floodgates stop me fast.
As for imperm it's always an on/off relationship for me. Because on one hand it can negate any non targetting card and it won't make either TTT live. But it feels a little bricky sometimes.
Thanks for the response!
Would white forest azamina be excusable enough to run 3 and 3 going second,since they need spells to send to activate and end up getting it back with the diabell synchro? Would like to get your opinion.
Great video btw love your content
For Masterduel or best of 1 formats, I think Talents is better than thrust unless you have an archetypal trap/quickplay to search. The comparitive advantage of having 1 imperm vs talents being able to gurantee the follow through of your combo, which normally can search your trap anyway, aswell as set up some other interruption or recursion is massive.
For this I think talents is generically better and should be played at the higher ratio- 2 talents generically is best.
mathematically the game will open my 2 one ofs of these against someone with 0 handtraps
I ran 2 thrust and 1 talent on MD not because i knew the math, but because i didnt have UR Matetial for it lol and its always remained that way since.
I've been a fan of running 2-2 in 40 cards because if I bumped any of them to 3 I start bricking even if the ratios went from 2-2 to 1-3
The worst is when you use talents to draw 2 than then draw another talents... ugh. I hate that feeling.
I run 3 thrusts and 1 talent in a 60-cards Plants deck. Seem to be very good because the deck has many 1 card combos.
That seems like a great fit. I like that ratios go to 3 instead of 2 there because the 60 cards will bury alot of the thrusts. Sounds like a smart and solid build!
Lmao you had to do maths to work this out while I figured it out via vibes alone
They always say trust you gut! That gut feeling is seldom wrong.
can you make/show a ladder version of the going2nd decks, thanks
I have alot of going 2nd decks i use for ladder. This particular one was just a halfhazard deck i put together in 3 minutes for the Theme Chronical and to showcase the Thrust/Talent relationships and some ken/gen combos and how they turn it on and work symbiotically with the thrust & talent to turn it on.
You can see the ladder deck I actually use in my going 2nd video. its a dogmatika albazoa going 2nd deck and i love it. But i ladder with all kinds of unique and relatively rogue decks like pure ragnarika, ninjas, ghoti, nouvelles, etc.
It makes getting to masters I every season a fun challenge.
I find these videos interesting.
As far as the exceptions go, would White Forest be one of them (especially for Thrust)? Triple Tactics Thrust in White Forest has the extra bonus of setting a WF Spell/Trap that can be sent from the field as cost for their monsters, then reset for later use, plus Diabell, Queen of the White Forest can retrieve spells/traps from the grave. Would this be enough justification for a 3 Thrust/1 or 2 Talent ratio?
I tend to love numbers myself, always look at them in deckbuilding, since I have the absolute worst luck. If you want outlier ratios, I've got some for you!
Yes! thats a great example of an exception deck! Another person in the comments also mentioned Mimighoul as example because it makes your opponet activate cards on the field on their side as well so very interesting. There are over 900 archtypes so I know I def forgot a bunch of exceptions!
In your specific example I could certainly see doing a 3/1 Thurst/Talent ratio because thrust on its own can also set WOES which is a super powerful trap even if they dont control a monster.
I already know it's stupid to run both Talents and Thrust at 3. Mainly because both cards have a situational activation condition that depends on your opponent doing stuff. they can become bricks depending on the opponent.
Yes they have powerful effects and yes their action conditions are common. But not guaranteed. And that alone justifies not running either at 3. For me personally. I run Talents at 2 and Thrust at 1 and it does me just fine. Sometimes I won't even run Thrust at all and sometimes I run only 1 Talents and I still do just fine
I remember my first game at locals and it was against a dude using Eldlich. I opened Feather Duster in both games😂😂 he couldn't believe it.
Me listening this video while testing hands with my Maliss deck drawing talents and thrust in the first hand
you might need to double check your math...
1.64% chance of seeing 2 if your running 3 in a 60 card deck going 1st with a 5 card hand. thats just a rounding error,
but more importantly, who calculates going first for thrust and talents? they are mainly going second cards!
Reran my math for that one - you are 100% CORRECT! The math to see EXACTLY 2 should be 1.607%. The math to see AT LEAST 2 was 1.636% which i rounded to 1.64%. Apologies and GREAT EYE! and thank you for double checking me! I accidently applied AT LEAST math to that one which i shouldn't have because I was talking about EXACTLY lol
To the 2nd point who is using TTT going 1st its mainly players that are uneducated/new, and players that spent over $500 in TCG for all 6 playsets of thrust and talents when they came out and now they are realizing that they don't need to have bought full playsets.
The amount of people on ladder on MD running the 3/3 full package of thrust and TTT or online decklists is staggering and actually is what prompted me to make the video. someone posted in a facebook group his decklist - or i really should say bricklist of a going 1st HERO decklist that has the 3/3 package and full of other bricks/garnets as well.
Queue me playing zombie 60 pile with Thrust at 3, praying I get Ashed or something so I can grab Grass Looks Greener. In most other decks I just play both at 1 copy or just one of the two at 1 copy.
Sorry to bring that up, but isn't the ration for drawing 1 copy of a card out of a 40 card deck with a 5 card hand:
1/40 + 1/39 + 1/38 + 1/37 + 1/36 = 13.18%
Because you change the amount of cards in the deck every time you draw one card and that also change the probability of drawing the specific you want.
It's much simpler than that. If you have just 1 card in a 5 card hand for a 40 card deck: it's either in the hand or the deck.
It's a 5/40 chance to be in the hand =12.5%
Or it's a 35/40 chance to still be in the deck = 87.5%
The calculations your doing is slightly off because you need to do the inverse. If you wanted to do it the correct way going about it your way aka the hard math we would have to use this equation 1-(39÷40)×(38÷39)×(37÷38)×(36÷37)×(35÷36) = 12.5%
Your equation is incorrect also because your adding the percentages when the should be getting multiplied. For example if you kept doing it your lway you would get over 100% when you got to around 15 cards left in the deck which is impossible.
The real reason why not to run playsets of Trust and Talents; because both are UR, and to have enough gems to not run default duel field and naked cards like at 17:12
This was a good video. Does anybody know an App, where you can check cards and their deck status (limited, banned, etc.)? For the TCG*
She always told me it was about the thrust and not the talent 🙂↔️
using thrust just to search tactics? ARE YOU INSANE? it's the last card you would search
it is used to search blow out traps and side deck cards like dimensional barrier, ddg, fusion duplication etc
or going second to get sky striker engage, a fiendsmith starter for the ryzeol deck or even malice and unchained traps
2 talents feels optimal in my 50 card deck. 3 is just too cloggy. If Jesse cotton says 2 if you don't want to always draw it, then I'll just have to classify talents as a "don't want to always draw it" type of card. As for thrust? I really just don't like that card.
i was just wondering about 50 cards myself. I run 2 talents 1 thrust. Not sure if that's what others would do though
@@dvynal2964 That seems fine. That means you have better chances of seeing talents going 2nd. I was considering doing that, except I don't run many things I'd like to thrust for. There is the side deck, but at that point I would just run it thrust at 3 because thats the whole point of the thrust package.
Best Ratio for Striker Going Second Breaker (My DecK). I play 2 Talents and 3 Thrust to much?
I don't have talents and thrust but I have a talent in thrusting my hips.
Really helps because I hated bricked on multiples of both of these. Hey Jesse, what's your opinion on Small World, do you think it's a great card, would you make a video on that and how versatile it is?
That seems like a great idea! Small world is a GREAT card in the decks that have a starter but no searchers for it. (mostly rouge and untiered decks) So it flys under the radar alot of the time.
Most modern support does have searchers or even a "searcher FOR the searcher!"
But for alot of decks it CAN and IS viable and a strong card to use! Also, it does have the added utility to grab ANY card in the deck so it can grab handtraps - techs etc at the cost of 1 card so there is certainly a place for it in alot of decks.
@@JessePerezStrategyGaming any good cards to use with small world to get into water enchantress of the temple?
@@luizalex.7424 all the premium handtraps work ash, belle and ogre are level 3. Droll and veiler are spllcasters. So it's perfect. Just go Any ht into ht into enchantress
@@JessePerezStrategyGaming thank you bro
What would the ratios be like for a 60 card deck ?
I would say it would be deck dependent on the 60 card deck. If its a GRASS is Greener type deck then easily we know we want 3 thrust and 1 talents. But if its a deck that can do 1 card combos like branded and does alot of interactions I could see running 3 thrust 2 talents.
Oh ok, I'll be playing a hero deck
What are the best extra deck targets for ultimate slayer
Going off the top of my head with the spelling and names of some of these so be lenient on my spelling.
For links - its the 2 tribrigade cards Ferijit & Bephaulus III ( he sends garura to draw one)
For fusions - Garura or N'tss are tier 1 but there are some of the fossil monsters are also good secondary to throw to the GY
For Synchros - Pegasus ignister & psy frame omega
For XYZs its - Meteror Aggrigator. (if your a water deck its Toadally awesome)
I have a video that briefly goes over the best targets it might be in my going 2nd video or a tech card video but im not sure which one exactly.
also you can look at my Extra Deck at the decklist in the end to see some of the targets i am using as well.
@@JessePerezStrategyGaming For Synchros you should add a Malong. so you can bounce another card on the field
Also for synchros, Enigmaster Packbit@@JessePerezStrategyGaming
@@drtn4976 yes! Malong is a great one too! I forgot about that one it was just going off my head lol thanks for the assist!
Whats a good ratio for ken and gen?
3 to 1 or 3 to 2 if you can make use of both their effects well. You want to Have the gens in your hand at 3 and then summon the kens - The one that let's you draw 2 and discard 1 ( you'll run them at 1 or 2)
Also you can link our gens into an almeraj, then turn almeraj into a link guardna putting a ED monster in the GY. This turns on dogmatika maximus which is a good card to run also with them.
Can you do a video on the ice barrier deck I feel like it’s missing something 😅
To me - ice barrier is EXTREMELY similar to Rescue Ace. In that if you get their big boss monster out he can generate alot of advantage. But BOTH decks have to play like 3-4 bricks that are powerful but are searched/summoned. So they have a lot in common.
If anything i think the problem is the bricks that ice-barrier has to play so they can ss them on the opponents turn. Ice barrier has some of the strongest synchro climbing cards and some really good effects. Mirror is super strong!
So its basically a high risk high reward deck does great going first but can also struggle going 2nd because of the garnets/bricks.
It also depends strongly on the meta you are playing. Right now everybody is throwing handtraps left and right + talents e.g. is very good right now. I play 2 talents and 0 thrusts in my pure ryzeal deck in the moment. Went to locals last weekend and experienced that 1 talents is way to less... but even with math and or experience in the end destiny will decide what happens 😅
Man I love your content, probably my favorite now since I became an MD only duelist. By the by, are you planning on organizing community tournaments or events? I'd love to participate in any of them. Cheers from MX!
Yes! I do have a tournament in the backburner being planned with some of my mods. Were ironing out the kinks to that but it should be a fun one and unique too!
@@JessePerezStrategyGaming Aces! you mentioned mods so I'm assuming it will be arranged via discord or something similar? Is there any link I can click to join?
yes there is a link to the discord at the bottom of the description in my videos. :D
Yo turns out
I was already running the right ratios because I didn't want to spend so much UR Dust on them! I knew being a cheapskate would reward me!
"Choking his deck out" AYYY-YOOOO!🤨
Wow, I always put 1 talent and 2 thrust in my decks,
Youre such a treat thank you
2 tactics talent are peak of golden ratio
yeah but besides ash that effect negates to add, most spell negates or omnis that interact with thrust and talents are activation negation not effect negation so if you have another copy is still live. this math is okey-ish
I swear Jesse is an actuary lol. Great vid
What about cyberse decks
The odds of drawing 3 of the same cards in a 60 card deck seem much higher than 0.03%... i swear I draw 3 copies once every 3-4 days in my 60 card pile.
It's roughly 1 in 30 matches from my experience, I'm not arguing against math but I think the master duel shuffle is rigged
Been trying to tell people this!
12:15 I'm glad you pointed out that Swordsoul isn't a 1 card combo deck. Some internet communities and other yugitubers say that Swordsoul and Blue-Eyes are "1.5" combo decks or something silly like that but they absolutely need 2 cards to start their standard combos. It's madness.
"1.5 card combo" means you need 1 card, though often a specific card, and another that for paying a cost, meaningg the 0.5 or second card could be anything else. A 2 card combo requires 2 exact cards to pop off, meaning you have to somehow get to those 2 specifically to combo.
I understand what you’re saying though. because regardless of the reason, alot of times you do need 2+ cards that fit the requirement to get started
I play 3 thrust and 3 talent in my memento deck cause i dont care if i draw 2 cause i need to draw a good breaker going 2nd
Hell yes, always been talking about this
tbf im not sure how you lose with double talents + maxx c + kaiju since you're clearly running a go second deck.
as Branded main this video in informational
Bro sided in three dbarrier I top decked all three off the rip
I play branded 60card, 3 thrust and 1 talent
Great video 😂
I’m no mathematician but I can already tell it’s stupid to run these two at three.
Yeah - Its crazy the amount of decks i see posted online or on ladder running a 40 card 3-3 FULL package of thrusts and talent in decks and then they wonder why
Super Mario is on route to their location because their hands are made of Bricks and hes coming to collect the coins.
@@JessePerezStrategyGaming more like the envy of Monarch & BE... Based comment thou
problem in master duel is that there is no rng oder math at all.
i have a 100% chance of drawing 3 max c against floo
Finally justified due to being broke
Now when the "rich kid" flaunts his 3 TTT and 3 Thursts at your locals you can silently laugh as he bricks so much he could start his own masonry business.
Like the fact the exceptions remove 90% of deck so basically the video almost useless and if you go as meta deck basically everything falls into exception. Like White Forest the topping list don't play either, Labrynth can set half their deck of thrust and don't play it, Mermail play 1-3.
What i love about mathematic players they think they solved deck building but have 0 proof to back it up because they haven't achieved anything in the game.
Because these are all decks that have won or topped events consistently and goes against this whole video
yes 100% white forest would fall under the exception because they can make use of the spells as discard fodder - This video also will find little value to the 1% pros or those really advanced in math - its really for the people who posts their decklists on facebook of their blue eyes brick pile with 3/3 talents thrust and wonder why they are bricking so much they are making Masons jeaolous.
Or just people like myself that just like to look at numbers and ratios and just make our jank rouge decks a little better.
Bruh top players absolutely use math for their ratios. If you ever watch deck profiles, they explain the logic behind their picks. Listen carefully to the cards that didn't work out or cards that they saw too much of. Those are cards that are the wrong ratios. But most of the time, they'll test the absolute hell out of their decks to figure all that out.
@@GaussianEntity yes 100% I agree with you!
WAZAAAAAAA!!!
The speedy ninja strikes!
There's no math here. It's just random. I sometimes open only engine cards. And other times only hand traps. So math out the window. Just build your deck as you feel. Unless you are a competitve player in which case you are already a pro and don't need this crap.
Bruh I find your vids interesting but genuine question what are your tops, like this video is one of the least controversial in terms of the maths but like put your tops on the table to be speaking with this authority on it.
Like it’s all good doing the maths but I wanna hear tournament experience to back it up, no good just looking at numbers without experience at a decent level man, numbers don’t mean shit without some results to back it up, it’s as good as me doing a goblin biker test hand saying “oh this deck is broken look at this end board” without considering interrupts
I have 0 tops nor regionals to my name because I never went lol. So at the same time I also have no losses either. 😀
I have been doing mathematical videos as a hobby since wayy before yugioh doing videos on Auto Chess, Second Galaxy (Eve clone), RPGs etc.
But when it comes to math - that's my specialty and I feel i can talk 100% as an authority greater than someone with 100 tops when it comes to math.
I do not like to brag nor boost so i humbly present my credentials. I tutored AP statistics in my undergraduate - I graduated law school and passed the BAR. Worked as contracts manager and currently work for my city. Humbly speaking, With my mathematical background i feel I could speak to the numbers more accurately then most.
With all that said - I am NO pro player. I play this game as a hobby and make videos for fun not my livelihood. I sometimes lose due to time ⏲️. And make slightly suboptimal plays. With that said I still get to masters with random jank strategies.
I am a masters player probably in the top 10%. But nowhere in the league of Jesse Kotton or Joshua Smidt who are the top 1%.
I am a Chess Master while they are Chess Grandmasters.
But I feel that I can talk about things they cannot. Math, hypergeometric calculations, and probability.
In any event, thank you for the comment and thanks for watching - i really do appreciate you taking the time and question which i think everyone SHOULD do from time to time and CHALLENGE whats presented.
Also I love to admit when I am wrong or put other views on display. Even now, I pinned the comment that has the best "OTHER SIDE" response because my goal is to further everyone's knowledge. and i 100% fact know that i do not know everything and forget some aspects. 10.000+ cards is alot to remember! so there are some things that could fall through the cracks but if we POOL our knowledge instead of hording it we can better the community.
Well actually I play mimighoul
Whoever does your subtitles, fire them
I was just thinking of stopping doing the subtitles ALL together. What do you think? Were they too distracting?
@JessePerezStrategyGaming I'm one of those people that like subtitles actually. So I'm used to read them while watching. Some of the (probably) speech to text mistakes are pretty distracting I do have to say
why do u look like mr beast
Lmfao slobber knocker andaconda squeezimg his deck thruster 3000 what are these catch phrases lmfao 😂😂😂
This Video is so bad lmao. Thrust is a signfiicanly worse card than Talents , since Talents is insne going first and solid going 2nd while thurst is horribl going first and for most decks doesnt even do anything else apart from searching talent , making the deck play worse into ash and droll etc. So this 2-1 rule is obv bs. Also this gmeplay video is horrible. you are playing against low rated player that randomly scoop for no reason + you are using your handtraps like a bot , instead or using it properly. also the deck shown in this video is straight up garbage wihtout a win condition.
you might have missed the part where i said I made a suboptimal deck for the event on purpose and NOT to use it to climb ladder. - that it would get you diamond AT BEST. The point was to actually test the math and how the exceptions felt EVEN when i was using decks with exceptions. and form how they played out it was really hard to get my tactics live even with decks built forcing the interactions.
Like I said too in the video there are ALWAYS exceptions. Talents can be more useful then thrusts in certain situations no doubt I 100% agree. But unfortuneately, we CANNOT choose if were going 1st for 2nd with 100% certainty. So main decking on a random chance the thrust has better value becasue its better going 2nd AND is reasonable going 1st.