Every time I watch one of your videos I think you would have been the type of Professor to have a lasting, positive impact on your students. Thank you the info on peat. It was much needed. 👍
Fascinating - you're always the voice of Reason it seems - I suspect part of the 'Don't Use Peat' comes from UK, where peat bogs were really wrecked in the past and of course had nothing like the area Canada has - which was news to me, and probably lots of other people, too! Plus, there were some very reckless people destroying peat bogs and limestone pavements in the name of beautifying gardens. It seems the resource is being carefully and thoughtful managed in Canada (unlike, perhaps, some of the mining for the rare earths, which when they run out, I'm nor sure where they are going to find more - but that's another story!) I'm glad you've shared this info, so I'll do more research, because if the pest-based mixes I see in the stores are sustainably (as near as damn-it) managed, then I know this is good for the plants. Thanks for taking time to do the research & sharing calm advice & knowledge.
Thanks so much. We're fortunate (in Canada) to see the development of this young industry at a time when environmental vigilance is high, and where there's pressure on the government and industry from the outset to get it right.
I love how you always include popups with information. I always screenshot those and save them in a garden folder on my phone. You have honestly taught me so much. Much love man. Rockport Texas
I appreciate you explaining this Jason. I have heard on some videos about not using peat, but didn't really know why. I don't use it because I buy plants and put them in the ground. If I were potting plants I would probably use it and wouldn't worry about it.
Wow I had no idea the usage of peat for horticulture was so low! Really puts it into perspective that it is not an issue to keep using it for horticulture for many years to come… at least in North America - other regions may vary.
Monty Don always says use peat free, but never explains why. I like an explanation of what information you are giving me so I can make up my own mind. Great video as always 👍
I use a Sphagnum moss from New Zealand for propagation of cuttings of my Bonsai and sick trees. This product works miracles on any sick tree I have encountered. I have had Pre Bonsai loose every leaf and be on the brink of death, I remove all the soil, place the tree in some moss and in 3-4 weeks the tree bounces back. All my cuttings grow vigorously in this moss. Soft, semi hardwood hardwood and leaf cuttings.
From Ireland a bit update: we still use the peat for fuel, however it won’t be long. More people are changing to other sources. We use a combination of various sources, recently planting hazel in a small patch of land. Our garden is beautiful, thanks to the peat soil. Your video is very interesting, we’ll check links. Thanks very much.
Frankly, after being a full time gardener due to covid, I have to think about: Do we need so many amendments to a backyard garden ? Exploring on youtube, I can see how people pour all kinds "organic" fertilizer and water into a desert like land and later yank out plants here and there. It is totally about money now. It is really ridiculous to build a perfect garden by destroy other creature's home and even taking their lives. I am really glad to hear some gardener to raise the questions like this.
Thanks Yang Su - questions and reason-based discussion discussions are most welcome. I really do think RUclips (and other social media sites) can be valuable, and particularly in the role of providing good information to individual gardeners so they can make the best informed decisions for their own circumstances. That's why I see judgment and accusations as so counter-productive. "Don't do that!" isn't very persuasive.
Well stated Jason.👌 When you mentioned the forest industry as a comparison, I believe you chose exactly the right metric for a just and fair evaluation. In the beginning of forest conservation the battle lines were drawn so tightly that the entire industry across the Western part of the US was literally shut down by completely false information that was later proven as such. However, the realization that something different needed to be done did emerge for a more reasonable consideration. The critical balance between using natural resources and how to properly manage a healthy ecosystem is actually in all our best interests. For example: The regions here in the US that utilize forest harvesting and other types of underbrush removal as a management system have far less issues with raging wild fires (in general) than the regions that do nothing at all. This is my personal observation over the past 50 years and supported by numerous agencies from across the world including Canada. Can things be improved upon? Of course, but honestly some will never be satisfied no matter what. I think an important bit of information for those who don't live in Canada is the vast wetland area that you are talking about and the actual impact happening right now. I have heard about the skimming and re-seeding programs that are happening. In truth, only time will tell what adjustments will need to be made for improving and better developing these programs. At least the conversation is beginning to be more than just activist against industry against politicians and that is a far better place than the fishing industries which are seeing results, but seem to be in a constant state of battle mode. I'm happy that there is important dialog and that they seem to have learned something from the other industry challenges. I personally believe we are learning to better manage our natural resources and that is the ultimate goal all the way around. One thing is for sure, keeping a certain amount of undisturbed natural area is necessary to re-fortify struggling areas because sometimes you just have to get back to a proper foundation. In agriculture it is necessary to allow a field to go dormant after a certain amount of years growing just to let the ground rest and regenerate. Everyone who has an agenda will not be persuaded, but those truly looking for the best solutions will always find possibilities. 😉 As a grower myself, I prefer possibilities over hard fast rules. Thank you Jason for sharing about this tough subject.👍
Thanks for all your insights. Resource management is usually not so binary as "yes" or "no". I think what some advocates may be missing (at least when talking about Canada's bogs) is that bringing some of these lands under management for harvest can help to formalize rules and processes for their use. The fact that forestry generates provincial revenue justifies the budget to study, manage and protect the forests. With so much unmanaged bog land already claimed over to agriculture (a much higher value activity financially) it seems like getting some peat harvest revenue onto the books might be a step in the right direction for government to take it seriously.
@@FraserValleyRoseFarm Exactly. Unfortunately the conservationists don't want to hear those words, but that is actually the best way to raise the kind of awareness that can actually mean something. The same applies to the tundra and polar bears of the far North country, nobody really cares (except the Inuit and other native people) because it doesn't affect anything tangible in the general population, but as soon as you put a monetary value in the equation all of a sudden we have to do something right away. I have worked in construction and heavy equipment mechanics mixed with business and farming most of my life and all of these things meet at the "Proper Management" intersection and conservation is a huge part of the sustainability of all these enterprises. The significance of the Canadian wetlands directly affects the United States at every water tributary that flows across the border, Columbia River, Niagra River, all of the Great Lakes, and every other waterway that our two countries share. Imagine if people actually understand what that means, our two countries are inexplicably connected because the very fabric of the ground itself is all the same.😳 We can hope that there will be positive conversations and I believe you and the other growers can be a significant source of information as well.🤙
Sure would love to visit your farm and glean knowledge, experience. Peat bogs are a renewable resource, the same as forestry. May take a long time. Just as you said as I continued listening. We strive to be sustainable and it takes a full understanding of both sides. I use peat as opposed to coconut coir so far.
I think you're exactly right with your final statement, it has happened before in other areas. For example, it was falconers that saved the peregrine falcon from going extinct. Those statistics are very interesting, with only .03% being harvested ever, that means there should be plenty of time for responsibly harvested areas to regenerate, as long as there aren't special circumstances for a specific area, like you said.
If a person feels harvesting peat is particularly environmentally unfriendly, can that person please detail the way coconut coir is harvested and shipped, and explain why that is healthier for the planet? Thank you!
This is an excellent point. Trying to hold me emotionally hostage without facts in order to force me to spend my money a certain way and adjust my behavior to suit a narrative I don’t find compelling isn’t a tactic I find laudable. At the end of the day, I use peat from Canada (I’m American) and spray my roses with (gasp) chemicals and see no reason to alter my methods.
At this moment the entire planet is in a race to slow and stop the damage we have done to our climate. Peat bogs sequester five times more carbon than the same amount of forest. Any alternative to Peat is preferable. You can quibble about the details all you like but we should be doing everything in our power to stop releasing carbon into the atmosphere.
Thanks Mark. I appreciate your input on this. I don't always have an appetite to "quibble the details" but all of these decisions will happen at the level of public policy and politics (shudder!), and that's going to require some quibbling. That calls for realism more so than idealism. It's one of the reasons I picked the forestry example for comparison. IMO it's only because there's government revenue attached to lumber that Canada's forest management is funded and regulated to the degree that it is. As regards the bog lands, we've seen the results when unmanaged wetlands are brought into contest with agricultural and urban development. As mentioned in the video, a whopping 750x the amount of bog land has been cleared for agriculture than has been harvested for peat. Clearly, saying "just don't harvest peat" offers no solution to this problem. Sequestering 13% of the land mass of Canada into nature reserves just isn't realistic by any stretch. I know that compromise isn't in fashion these days, but here's what I'm saying: if the government is collecting revenue for the harvest and the peat industry is held to strict standards for bog restoration, then a greater portion of these bogs can be brought under long-term management. Even with harvesting, the bogs in Canada are accumulating far more peat mass annually (60x the amount) than is being removed. That's what sustainability looks like IMO, when you can bring things into long-term management that works both financially and environmentally. If we take the hard-line stand "No - I want a 0% harvest", I'm afraid we'll lose more bogs to development, because let's face it: without revenue attached, the government is unlikely to dedicate significantly more resources to managing this land.
Thanks for the well-balanced perspective. I am impressed. To my knowlege one problem is that peat is by far not always retreived in the sustainable way you describe. This may look differently in Canada, but here in Europe the peat often come from eastern European countries or Russia where they do not care about sustainable harvesting but simply destroy the resources. So the problem is how to find out if my peat is harvested sustainably. The situation is probably less like the one with wood in general (ok they also destroy their last ancient forests in eastern Europe in these days) , but much more the one with ivory or teak wood, where you usually cant see the origin and therefore have to assume that the source is not ecological. We certainly cannot trust the industry to exploit resources sustainably if they are not forced to. That is not how humans work... In addition there is the CO2 aspect. As you write in a text addition peat takes extremely long to reestablish. It takes ten-thousands of years to rebuild only a few meters. So peat should be considered as a non-renewable resource carbonwise, like oil or coal, which is a bad idea in times of a derailing climate. I therefore try to avoid peat altogether. I also think gardening should be somethimg which brings people closer to nature, and which should make them think more about ecological issues. So bringing up the topic was very valuable.
Thanks for your perspective Rollo. I can't speak too much about the European situation - but if it's a matter of responsible harvest in Canada vs. irresponsible harvest elsewhere, a blanket ban seems to be the wrong approach. Surely rewarding more sustainable suppliers is preferable to knee-jerk policies based on bad practices in one region. I have to challenge you (respectfully) on any analogy to oil or coal. There's a real scientific definition of renewable vs. non-renewable resources, and it has to do with the time-scale. Cutting down a forest block for lumber and paper production removes wood (CO2 storage) the same way removing peat does. Then it takes decades to restore the area to a state where the CO2 is being sequestered at a similar rate to mature forests. In restored peat bogs, this block can be restored to full productivity within 5 years. So by the real definition of renewability, the restored peat bog is by far the better renewable. Also, far more peat is being produced worldwide than is being harvested. If that's not the definition of renewable, then honestly what is? Anyone who is pushing for peat to be treated like coal or oil is ignoring science in favor of ideology.
Peat moss has worked great as a top dressing and at planting for my roses and blueberry bushes. I'll continue to use it. A valid point made about wood too. Nobody is saying don't use wood, preserve the wood at all costs, or figuring out any ways to make housing with other materials, besides wood, that is more affordable.
I think it is a good thing when people have more awareness about sustainability, like here we’re talking about use or not to use peat, coconut coir, etc. And people who love horticulture, I assume, are people who love green and environment, so it’s nice that we can think one step further about what kind of potting mix to use. But also, I agree, we as human are taking resources from the nature, like the oil, gas, coal, etc, instead of saying ‘don’t use it’, maybe we should find some substitutes, for practical and economical reasons (cheap and good for the plants). I changed to use pine needles when I started to have this concern, but I might also be guilty because pine needles are collected in the pine forest on the ground, they are part of the compost process in the pine forests, and acting like a mulch for them, and thus, part of the ecosystem. The negative effect is not showing NOW is because it’s still not a major potting medium in practice. So, currently not vitally harmful. But for gardening and container gardening aspect, pine needles is a very good substitute. I suggest people to try it. It’s very cheap, and you can control the size of them by chopping them finer or leave them longer, so they perform differently on aeration and water holding ability, depends on what you want. The only down side of it is the hydrophobic nature. Many commercial peat moss in the market are treated, so the hydrophobic phenomenon is not very obvious, but the pine needles are obvious. What I do is I use a mist bottle to mist all the surface first, and then water it with watering can. Maybe horticulture hobbyists can try this medium more often. The decompose process of pine needles in the container is about 3 years. So remember to repot them every 3 years.
Dont mistake me as arguing against your point, because I agree. The issue, I think, is that a forest can regrow much much faster than a peat bog can. There ideally would be a "green" solution to harvesting peat like there is with forestry, but I suspect the issue has not been studied as much. By 'green' I would mean: selecting x number of trees in a given area, replanting, etc. Maybe they do that with peat, but I suspect they dont.
Thanks Alex. Forestry has definitely been under management with a much longer track record, so I take your point on there being less time for study. That said, I think your initial assumption (that forests regrow faster than peat) is questionable. Here's what I was able to read in the studies: current peat harvesting basically follows the "clear cut" model from forestry, where a block of land is harvested all at once, and then is replanted promptly after the harvest. However, unlike in the forests, where the replanted block can take decades to fill in and reach full productivity, the restored peat land can return to full productivity in around 5 years. Neither one will be the same as it was before harvest - and might not accumulate "old growth" levels of peat or wood even in the timescale of a hundred years. No, I don't see how you could find the equivalent of the selective logging approach - but I've seen mixed reviews of how green that approach is too.
good video, well explained, thanks. how about a recipie for how much lime to add to raw peat to bring it to a p.h. of 6.4 . if you could thst would be very helpfull in saving money. thanks!
There's loads of potting mix recipes out there, and a pretty standard rate I see used is 1/4 cup of lime in 6 gallon of peat or peat/perlite mix. I'm sure this isn't precise, as peat moss will even vary in pH by batch and supplier, but it might be a good place to start.
@@FraserValleyRoseFarm wow responds on christmas eve! good service. i see what your saying , i think what your meaning is to a potting type soil mix with lime already in it, is it? what i've always been looking for but havn't been able to find is a recipe made from raw peat , like the unlimed sunshine peat bales, or is this what you mean. if not do you have that info? thanks , love your videos , hope you weren't flooded, and merry christmas!
Yes, the 1/4cup lime would be added to 6 gallons of (expanded) baled peat to correct the pH. As mentioned, the ratio won't be exact because even baled peat varies in pH, but it's a place to start. Usually growers will also mix around 10 to 20% perlite to improve drainage.
@5:19 the plants to the right of screen, what are they? I grow sea holly (Eryngium 'Blue Hobbit' ) but these look so much more spectacular - and probably aren't remotely related.
Hi Allister - they're echinops ritro, globe thistle. So similar in color to eryngium, but you're right, two different families: echinops is in the daisy family, eryngium in the carrot family.
Ain't no party like a peat-based party! Jah! Hey Jason, as a side note, I have been realizing this year how much easier the sale of plants are when I only offer one type of plant, instead of having a variety. I sell evergreen trees and have noticed even by offering 4 types of tree, it can create more questions/decisions for the customer, which leads to more correspondence (time) for me. In addition to the time it takes to do inventory and propagation for each variety. As someone who would prefer to just grow the plants and not have to deal with customers and selling them, I was curious if you've done a cost analysis on the idea of getting really good at growing one type of plant versus growing a variety. Any input would be appreciated. Jah Bless!
Thanks. It's a good topic, and I may have to make a video on it. My initial feeling is that it may have a lot to do with your customers/distribution. At the farmers market, I always found that more assortment = more sales, but that's really depending on walk-by traffic, so it's a bit more like retail. There's a definite advantage to keeping your assortment narrow. Here in my local area, some people grow a single variety of hedging cedar - and because it's a common landscaping choice, there's a large and ready market to be tapped (with a simple Facebook or Craigslist ad). I'm sure for the landscape trade, I could get myself down to just a few common varieties of roses - but they wouldn't appeal to serious rose gardeners who are willing to pay a bit more for something less commonplace.
@@FraserValleyRoseFarm ah makes sense. I guess there’s a market for everything. Kinda like your previous video about your friend focusing on edible plants and you honing in on ornamentals. I guess here in my area of WI it seems like selling privacy/windbreak trees is easier than selling rare dwarf conifers. And no one just buys just one hedging plant 🤑. Thanks Jason.
Air dried, minimally handled coarse or chunky peat is hard to get now because shipping cost is more because of the weight. I have heard the use of natural gas to dry the very fine ground peat accounts for a major part of the price. I think the less processed product is very long lasting in plantings and I would love to find a source to use with Kalmia and Rhododendrons. I am very much pro peat!
Thanks Wayne. What I've heard (and I could be wrong on this) is that Canadian peat is all pretty much a single grade, and all of the specialty peat sizes come from Europe, and so shipping can factor into it a lot. I ended up using a long-fiber peat blend from Pindstrup at one point, and it was an excellent choice even for succulents and moisture sensitive crops.
@@FraserValleyRoseFarm Thank you for your reply! The peat industry has really gone all out with engineered blends to allow automated fillers to work well in plug containers and I know that they must go where the money is. Fisons used to have their train cars of coarse peat ( blue labeled) on a siding in Delta before being moved elsewhere and when I knew they had some I would phone and they would not speak truthfully to me. All fun and games really! Enjoy your season and thank you for your videos!
Hello! I have a question about watering roses/climbing roses: I recently got one and whenever there's new growth, a 'branch' becomes yellow and falls off, it's pretty much bald from the middle area. The temperature here is 39-45 degrees celsius in summers and I water daily. Oh also, some of the leaves have brown tips and most are droopy but look fresh. I'm extremely confused, please help.
I wish I could offer better advice for a very warm climate like yours - but I just don't have the experience. If you can assess the moisture level of the soil, that may give you some clues. If it's in the ground, try digging down nearby. Maybe do this before watering one day - and see if the soil is already wet. If so, maybe you're overwatering and that can cause root damage / problems with nutrient uptake.
Hi, sorry this is off topic.....Why are leaves growing out of the tops of my rose buds? Should I trim them off or will they fold back on their own when the bud develops? Thanks.
If it's what I'm thinking, those are just the sepals. Some varieties have more prominent sepals that others and they will curl back behind the flower when it opens.
@@FraserValleyRoseFarm Thank you for your response. I am so hoping that is all it is. I transplanted this old overgrown rose (hybrid tea I think) that I inherited and the first growth was quite deformed.....bright red and twisted. I was afraid of rose rosette but it has straightened out nicely and I have had one rose so far, and now four more buds and more squiggly foliage. Fingers crossed!
The university of Leipzig published a scientific paper last year about peat moss, cocoanut coir, artificial substrates and #Mycorrhiza. Mycorrhiza could not proliferate on these substrates together with tomatoes. Lower quality of tomatoes was a result. Here in Germany the sale of peat moss is going to be banned officially.
Hi Jason, another great video. I have a question about rose identification. I recently moved into a new place with a number of established roses - I think primarily hybrid teas. Cherry reds, deep burgundies, hot pinks, soft pinks, and a peach-coloured one. Is there any way (short of a DNA test) to determine what cultivars of rose we have in our garden? Are there any books/online resources that can help me narrow down the possibilities?
I'd start by checking your local nurseries and the garden departments of big box stores in the spring. There's some chance that the very same varieties are being sold locally - generally, these retailers use the same suppliers for a number of years and even have "habits" about which ones they'll offer. I don't know what the odds are that the previous owner bought from one of these local sources, but it's a starting point (and way more targeted than going through Helpmefind). If there are still some that you can't ID, get some good pictures of the blooms, foliage and habit, and post to a rose-related Facebook group. Lots of folks there are familiar with the more commonly available varieties.
Well put, Jason: seems you led with your chin on this one... Without commercial horticulture, we just wouldn't even have food on the table in our largely urban Western society.
We are lucky to understand conservationism. It’s new, too bad that our resources, be it natural in the environment or intentional reproduction has to be “endangered” to be recognized as important, once it’s recognized we get conservation efforts to minimize the destruction and optimize future access. Every individual must recognize this on their own and contribute positively. That means we are intentionally conserving our resources as we need to meet supply and demand. It all goes together, you can’t be just part of the problem without being part of the solution and vice versa. Seek to understand everything.
Great info that I’ve never heard before. What do you think of using coconut coir instead of peat? I’ve tried it and found it to retain too much water. Thanks Jason!!
Hi, Jason, I've recently subscribed to your channel which I find very useful and reliable, so thank you for that. However this video appears to miss the main reason for moving away from peat. The reason for leaving peat in the ground is not that it is a finite resource but because of its vast capacity to lock up the elements that contribute to climate change. For this reason it can't be compared to forestry or other resources that you compare it to. Also, peat is not simply a Canadian or North American resource, it has a global impact.
Thanks Donald. I appreciate your thoughtful comments. I chose the forest example carefully, and it also works as good context on the greenhouse gas question. I've seen studies that show that peat biomass can accumulate carbon at a rate 3x as high as trees in forests. That's a good news for both your argument and mine. You see, it turns out that in the Canadian example, forest occupies just about exactly 3 times the space as peat land. In total then, the forested land has approximately the same potential as peat to accumulate C, which highlights the asymmetric approach around banning and condemning the resulting products. To spell it out more directly, if the carbon sequestering capacity of one is equal to the other, then why is it okay to harvest one at a relatively robust rate, but not okay to harvest the other at a much lower rate? But if you'll indulge me, I hope I can incorporate an even broader context here. It's clear that the current rate of peat accumulation is much higher (about 60 times higher) than the harvest. By any standards, this makes the management of peatlands for this use a net positive for carbon capture. This would be one good measure of the sustainability of the industry - but sustainability isn't just about carbon. It also includes the restoration of habitat (which is a part of the current regulatory framework) and economic sustainability. I don't want to get too sidetracked on this point, but I think it can be fairly said that economic viability (both for the industry and the government) adds tools to the toolkit of wetland protection. The peat harvest, at its current scale, appears to be both sustainable and able to remain net positive for carbon capture. When I see it being condemned, I wonder why it would be singled out against a backdrop of other resource industries that *cannot* make the same claim. Can we say the same for coal, oil and gas? Clearly not. Can we say the same about agriculture? No. How about mining? Fishing? Hunting? Or if we're able to stray outside of natural resources, let's look at transportation, manufacturing or hospitality? I'm ready to be wrong, but I don't think you'd claim that any of these others could be called both long-term sustainable AND on the right side of carbon neutral. So then, I have to ask - what explains (some successful!) calls for bans on this tiny speck of an industry when a proposed ban on forestry, mining or agriculture (or any of the others) would be dead in the water? Could it be that the economic consequences of addressing these much larger, dirtier industries would be unthinkable? The way I read it, it's so that we can make the token effort of tackling a small, rather benign issue - score political and ideological points along the way - and not have to look too hard at anything really consequential.
@@elsagrace3893 What facts am I missing (dear)? How do you possibly get from what I said that burning the rain forests isn't *e*ffecting the climate except for the smoke?!
Love your videos Jason, what’s your suggestions for overwintering panicle hydrangeas in pots. I have 2 hydrangeas in pots a limelight and a bobo and I really don’t want them to die and I’m new at gardening this year. Thank you for the wonderful advices on different things. 🙂
Hi Kay - it depends on your climate. In my area (zone 8) I don't need to offer any protection to hydrangeas. In a colder climate, you might consider moving the whole container into a more sheltered area - and unheated shed or garage is sort of ideal.
I have commented against the use of peat in another video. It was a hurried, throwaway comment. However, to my mind using something like coco coir which ordinarily might be garbage is preferable, all other things being equal. So good video. Here in southern ontario, we have a lot of deciduous leaves. These coupled with grass clippings left long in the fall make an excellent compost/potting soil. I realize this might not be commercially viable. I would really like the discussion of peat as a finite resource to influence the lawn growers out there who top dress, fertilize and cut twice a week. Unfortunately those people aren't watching this video.
Hi Mark. Thanks for your input, and you make a good point: even if I think there can be a reasonable/sustainable harvest of peat, I still think a gardener should give good consideration about how to use it most wisely. Myself, I use it occasionally as part of a propagation blend. In small pots and plug trays, it goes a long way. For larger pots, I grow mainly in a composted bark blend from the local forest industry. I think coir is a fine product, but I'm not confident that it's processed sustainably in the countries of origin. At least here, I know there's regulatory and other community pressure to keep the industry in line.
Great video mate. Everything has a cost to the environment, whether its fossil fuels or forests or coal to make steel. People should concentrate their efforts in minimising their own footprints instead of bitching at other people trying to make their way in the world. After all, if everyone was vegan, there would not be enough land to sustain us all.
Peat bogs are ancient and can never be replaced. They are a special environment with their own flora and fauna and they soak up rain to prevent flooding. Why do we have to destroy our irreplaceable environment for no good reason?
@@kathleenlodahl1358 We have to do something for sure and it needs to be bigger and bolder steps now. Governments need to sign up because time is running out if things aren't beyond recovery already.
I personally don't use peat for the following reasons: - Its expensive (where I live). - There are cheaper options such as coco-coir, bark and compost. - Its important for wetland ecology and acts as a carbon sink. I'm not anti-peat, people can use whatever they want. I prefer not to use it if I don't need to.
Thanks Laura for sharing your thoughts on it. You're doing what a thoughtful gardener should - consider the pros and cons, and make the right decision for your situation.
I do think that some ancient peat lands should be conserved but resource exploition is part of many economies, so probably should. I think Canada is currently the largest producer of diamonds. Lucky bastards. I personally don't use peat because it's too expensive in South Africa.
Thanks Tony. RUclips glitched badly on this one (the captions are amusingly nonsensical, but don't correlate at all to the topic). I'm trying to get it fixed.
Helen Trope environmental is the big political ticket at the moment. Extinction rebellion, green new deal, eat less meat, get rid of the cows, its bad for the environment, little do they realise that once you disturb and mess with the eco system the planet's finished.
@@jacquilayton2557 I think that's the point they are making. We are all messing with the eco system and it's going beyond the point of recovery in a way that's habitable for humankind . The science is on the side of this being factual rather than political opinion. Those who reject the idea tend to call it 'political'.
Hi Helen. I hope you don't feel like you're taking the brunt of this discussion because you present a differing opinion. The fact that you're here with your own personal environmental concerns is a credit to you!
Thanks Jennifer. Yeah, straight pet is a bit on the dense side - but in a blend with perlite (and I also like some coarse composted bark for perennials) it works great. Pumice is one I don't see used a lot, but does lend some nice weight and stability when compared to perlite.
@@FraserValleyRoseFarm pumice is available in Oregon by the truckload…all those old volcanoes, you know..I just moved back to Washington and have to pay for shipping bags of it….I did azalea cuttings in straight pumice…sifted out all the fine particle first…bonsai growers use it with bark manure composted well….that is before putting them in bonsai pots..you are right about peat not rehydrating well…I dumped a bag of peat around some old rhododendrons….water bounced right off it….
As a consumer I really don't like buying peat based products. The moss layer of peat takes carbon from the air and puts it back into the ground. A huge amount of methane is released when the bog is cut. Simply placing the top layer back doesn't address the methane issue. The methane released I'd a "greenhouse gas" and contributes to warming. I can't look at a beautifully grown annual, grown in peat in a plastic pot and not recognise the negative impact on the environment. My response is to grow more of my own annual plants using sifted homemade compost mixes because the horticultural industry has been painfully slow to respond. There is no easy answer, but one only has to look at recent weather events around the world to know that it is time to find an alternative. I would happily pay more for plants grown sustainably.
Thanks Elisabeth. Like you said, "no easy answer", and I completely agree. The suggested replacements are not without ecological impacts of their own. When you place it in the context of your concerns about global warming, that's a valid argument - but of course, there's no part of natural resource management in Canada (that I know of) that you could claim to be carbon neutral, and many are far more serious (in scale) than peat. I'll respect and even applaud your decision to avoid peat in plants for your garden - as personal action against climate change. My overall chagrin is directed at those who would call for a ban or boycott on this one product, but see no problem in flying the family down for a tropical vacation, importing Italian marble countertops and chatting happily away on their iPhone (without any thought for the ecological impacts of those decisions). It just seems rather arbitrary and "token"
There is a reliable alternative made from recycled paper: pittmoss.com/ - however, it may be the case that the production process for this alternative actually does more damage than the harvesting of peat. It's a complicated world. Who knows, just throwing it out there.
@@demesrvl6761 I'm no expert, but peat bogs are ancient and irreplaceable and they soak up water to prevent flooding, and they are part of the environment that we are gradually destroying and can never replace. There are other options I believe if you talk to enlightened garden centres who know what the alternatives are. Of course people may say peat is the best option but we can't keep destroying peat bogs just like we can't keep destroying the rain forests. We will pay a huge environmental and climate change price in the end if we do.
Thanks Helen. I don't think I sent you this link, but for an alternate point of view, I think Robert Pavlis does a great job of researching an presenting the issue: www.gardenmyths.com/peat-peatmoss-true-story/
Every time I watch one of your videos I think you would have been the type of Professor to have a lasting, positive impact on your students. Thank you the info on peat. It was much needed. 👍
Thanks - you're very kind to say so!
moxee33 he is not a professor AND he is having a lasting, positive impact on his students. I speak for myself 😌
Thanks Jason. Well balanced and informative as always.
Fascinating - you're always the voice of Reason it seems - I suspect part of the 'Don't Use Peat' comes from UK, where peat bogs were really wrecked in the past and of course had nothing like the area Canada has - which was news to me, and probably lots of other people, too! Plus, there were some very reckless people destroying peat bogs and limestone pavements in the name of beautifying gardens. It seems the resource is being carefully and thoughtful managed in Canada (unlike, perhaps, some of the mining for the rare earths, which when they run out, I'm nor sure where they are going to find more - but that's another story!) I'm glad you've shared this info, so I'll do more research, because if the pest-based mixes I see in the stores are sustainably (as near as damn-it) managed, then I know this is good for the plants. Thanks for taking time to do the research & sharing calm advice & knowledge.
Thanks so much. We're fortunate (in Canada) to see the development of this young industry at a time when environmental vigilance is high, and where there's pressure on the government and industry from the outset to get it right.
@@FraserValleyRoseFarm Mike Kincaid passes on his regards Jason!
I love how you always include popups with information. I always screenshot those and save them in a garden folder on my phone. You have honestly taught me so much. Much love man. Rockport Texas
Your pragmatic approach is why I like your videos. I appreciate it and I feel like I learn a lot.
Thank you! I just recently became aware of the peat bog issues and found your video a refreshing informative voice of reason. Great commentary.
Thanks Janice
I appreciate you explaining this Jason. I have heard on some videos about not using peat, but didn't really know why. I don't use it because I buy plants and put them in the ground. If I were potting plants I would probably use it and wouldn't worry about it.
Wow I had no idea the usage of peat for horticulture was so low! Really puts it into perspective that it is not an issue to keep using it for horticulture for many years to come… at least in North America - other regions may vary.
Monty Don always says use peat free, but never explains why. I like an explanation of what information you are giving me so I can make up my own mind. Great video as always 👍
I use a Sphagnum moss from New Zealand for propagation of cuttings of my Bonsai and sick trees. This product works miracles on any sick tree I have encountered. I have had Pre Bonsai loose every leaf and be on the brink of death, I remove all the soil, place the tree in some moss and in 3-4 weeks the tree bounces back. All my cuttings grow vigorously in this moss. Soft, semi hardwood hardwood and leaf cuttings.
Thank you! I'm just beginning to trial with sphagnum. I've heard good things, and I'm glad to hear you confirm them.
@@janehazen220 You’re welcome. Check out Ryan Neal from Mirai. He has a large Bonsai nursery in Oregon
This is interesting. I hope to learn more from your channel. Thank you for your knowledge
From Ireland a bit update: we still use the peat for fuel, however it won’t be long. More people are changing to other sources. We use a combination of various sources, recently planting hazel in a small patch of land. Our garden is beautiful, thanks to the peat soil. Your video is very interesting, we’ll check links. Thanks very much.
Thanks so much Maria!
Frankly, after being a full time gardener due to covid, I have to think about: Do we need so many amendments to a backyard garden ? Exploring on youtube, I can see how people pour all kinds "organic" fertilizer and water into a desert like land and later yank out plants here and there. It is totally about money now. It is really ridiculous to build a perfect garden by destroy other creature's home and even taking their lives. I am really glad to hear some gardener to raise the questions like this.
Thanks Yang Su - questions and reason-based discussion discussions are most welcome. I really do think RUclips (and other social media sites) can be valuable, and particularly in the role of providing good information to individual gardeners so they can make the best informed decisions for their own circumstances. That's why I see judgment and accusations as so counter-productive. "Don't do that!" isn't very persuasive.
Great information and detailed breakdown for why these are used and useful
Thank you so much . Once again you are always right . Love this . I only use pear or sphagnum when needed.
Well stated Jason.👌
When you mentioned the forest industry as a comparison, I believe you chose exactly the right metric for a just and fair evaluation. In the beginning of forest conservation the battle lines were drawn so tightly that the entire industry across the Western part of the US was literally shut down by completely false information that was later proven as such. However, the realization that something different needed to be done did emerge for a more reasonable consideration.
The critical balance between using natural resources and how to properly manage a healthy ecosystem is actually in all our best interests.
For example:
The regions here in the US that utilize forest harvesting and other types of underbrush removal as a management system have far less issues with raging wild fires (in general) than the regions that do nothing at all. This is my personal observation over the past 50 years and supported by numerous agencies from across the world including Canada.
Can things be improved upon? Of course, but honestly some will never be satisfied no matter what.
I think an important bit of information for those who don't live in Canada is the vast wetland area that you are talking about and the actual impact happening right now. I have heard about the skimming and re-seeding programs that are happening. In truth, only time will tell what adjustments will need to be made for improving and better developing these programs. At least the conversation is beginning to be more than just activist against industry against politicians and that is a far better place than the fishing industries which are seeing results, but seem to be in a constant state of battle mode.
I'm happy that there is important dialog and that they seem to have learned something from the other industry challenges. I personally believe we are learning to better manage our natural resources and that is the ultimate goal all the way around.
One thing is for sure, keeping a certain amount of undisturbed natural area is necessary to re-fortify struggling areas because sometimes you just have to get back to a proper foundation. In agriculture it is necessary to allow a field to go dormant after a certain amount of years growing just to let the ground rest and regenerate.
Everyone who has an agenda will not be persuaded, but those truly looking for the best solutions will always find possibilities. 😉
As a grower myself, I prefer possibilities over hard fast rules.
Thank you Jason for sharing about this tough subject.👍
Thanks for all your insights. Resource management is usually not so binary as "yes" or "no". I think what some advocates may be missing (at least when talking about Canada's bogs) is that bringing some of these lands under management for harvest can help to formalize rules and processes for their use. The fact that forestry generates provincial revenue justifies the budget to study, manage and protect the forests. With so much unmanaged bog land already claimed over to agriculture (a much higher value activity financially) it seems like getting some peat harvest revenue onto the books might be a step in the right direction for government to take it seriously.
@@FraserValleyRoseFarm Exactly. Unfortunately the conservationists don't want to hear those words, but that is actually the best way to raise the kind of awareness that can actually mean something. The same applies to the tundra and polar bears of the far North country, nobody really cares (except the Inuit and other native people) because it doesn't affect anything tangible in the general population, but as soon as you put a monetary value in the equation all of a sudden we have to do something right away.
I have worked in construction and heavy equipment mechanics mixed with business and farming most of my life and all of these things meet at the "Proper Management" intersection and conservation is a huge part of the sustainability of all these enterprises.
The significance of the Canadian wetlands directly affects the United States at every water tributary that flows across the border, Columbia River, Niagra River, all of the Great Lakes, and every other waterway that our two countries share. Imagine if people actually understand what that means, our two countries are inexplicably connected because the very fabric of the ground itself is all the same.😳
We can hope that there will be positive conversations and I believe you and the other growers can be a significant source of information as well.🤙
Sure would love to visit your farm and glean knowledge, experience. Peat bogs are a renewable resource, the same as forestry. May take a long time. Just as you said as I continued listening. We strive to be sustainable and it takes a full understanding of both sides. I use peat as opposed to coconut coir so far.
I think you're exactly right with your final statement, it has happened before in other areas. For example, it was falconers that saved the peregrine falcon from going extinct. Those statistics are very interesting, with only .03% being harvested ever, that means there should be plenty of time for responsibly harvested areas to regenerate, as long as there aren't special circumstances for a specific area, like you said.
If a person feels harvesting peat is particularly environmentally unfriendly, can that person please detail the way coconut coir is harvested and shipped, and explain why that is healthier for the planet?
Thank you!
2 wrongs don't make a right.
This is an excellent point. Trying to hold me emotionally hostage without facts in order to force me to spend my money a certain way and adjust my behavior to suit a narrative I don’t find compelling isn’t a tactic I find laudable. At the end of the day, I use peat from Canada (I’m American) and spray my roses with (gasp) chemicals and see no reason to alter my methods.
At this moment the entire planet is in a race to slow and stop the damage we have done to our climate. Peat bogs sequester five times more carbon than the same amount of forest. Any alternative to Peat is preferable. You can quibble about the details all you like but we should be doing everything in our power to stop releasing carbon into the atmosphere.
Thanks Mark. I appreciate your input on this. I don't always have an appetite to "quibble the details" but all of these decisions will happen at the level of public policy and politics (shudder!), and that's going to require some quibbling. That calls for realism more so than idealism. It's one of the reasons I picked the forestry example for comparison. IMO it's only because there's government revenue attached to lumber that Canada's forest management is funded and regulated to the degree that it is. As regards the bog lands, we've seen the results when unmanaged wetlands are brought into contest with agricultural and urban development. As mentioned in the video, a whopping 750x the amount of bog land has been cleared for agriculture than has been harvested for peat. Clearly, saying "just don't harvest peat" offers no solution to this problem. Sequestering 13% of the land mass of Canada into nature reserves just isn't realistic by any stretch. I know that compromise isn't in fashion these days, but here's what I'm saying: if the government is collecting revenue for the harvest and the peat industry is held to strict standards for bog restoration, then a greater portion of these bogs can be brought under long-term management. Even with harvesting, the bogs in Canada are accumulating far more peat mass annually (60x the amount) than is being removed. That's what sustainability looks like IMO, when you can bring things into long-term management that works both financially and environmentally. If we take the hard-line stand "No - I want a 0% harvest", I'm afraid we'll lose more bogs to development, because let's face it: without revenue attached, the government is unlikely to dedicate significantly more resources to managing this land.
Thanks for the well-balanced perspective. I am impressed.
To my knowlege one problem is that peat is by far not always retreived in the sustainable way you describe. This may look differently in Canada, but here in Europe the peat often come from eastern European countries or Russia where they do not care about sustainable harvesting but simply destroy the resources. So the problem is how to find out if my peat is harvested sustainably.
The situation is probably less like the one with wood in general (ok they also destroy their last ancient forests in eastern Europe in these days) , but much more the one with ivory or teak wood, where you usually cant see the origin and therefore have to assume that the source is not ecological. We certainly cannot trust the industry to exploit resources sustainably if they are not forced to. That is not how humans work...
In addition there is the CO2 aspect. As you write in a text addition peat takes extremely long to reestablish. It takes ten-thousands of years to rebuild only a few meters. So peat should be considered as a non-renewable resource carbonwise, like oil or coal, which is a bad idea in times of a derailing climate.
I therefore try to avoid peat altogether.
I also think gardening should be somethimg which brings people closer to nature, and which should make them think more about ecological issues. So bringing up the topic was very valuable.
Thanks for your perspective Rollo. I can't speak too much about the European situation - but if it's a matter of responsible harvest in Canada vs. irresponsible harvest elsewhere, a blanket ban seems to be the wrong approach. Surely rewarding more sustainable suppliers is preferable to knee-jerk policies based on bad practices in one region. I have to challenge you (respectfully) on any analogy to oil or coal. There's a real scientific definition of renewable vs. non-renewable resources, and it has to do with the time-scale. Cutting down a forest block for lumber and paper production removes wood (CO2 storage) the same way removing peat does. Then it takes decades to restore the area to a state where the CO2 is being sequestered at a similar rate to mature forests. In restored peat bogs, this block can be restored to full productivity within 5 years. So by the real definition of renewability, the restored peat bog is by far the better renewable. Also, far more peat is being produced worldwide than is being harvested. If that's not the definition of renewable, then honestly what is? Anyone who is pushing for peat to be treated like coal or oil is ignoring science in favor of ideology.
Peat moss has worked great as a top dressing and at planting for my roses and blueberry bushes. I'll continue to use it. A valid point made about wood too. Nobody is saying don't use wood, preserve the wood at all costs, or figuring out any ways to make housing with other materials, besides wood, that is more affordable.
Thank you for the scientific explanation valuable and helpful
I think it is a good thing when people have more awareness about sustainability, like here we’re talking about use or not to use peat, coconut coir, etc. And people who love horticulture, I assume, are people who love green and environment, so it’s nice that we can think one step further about what kind of potting mix to use. But also, I agree, we as human are taking resources from the nature, like the oil, gas, coal, etc, instead of saying ‘don’t use it’, maybe we should find some substitutes, for practical and economical reasons (cheap and good for the plants).
I changed to use pine needles when I started to have this concern, but I might also be guilty because pine needles are collected in the pine forest on the ground, they are part of the compost process in the pine forests, and acting like a mulch for them, and thus, part of the ecosystem. The negative effect is not showing NOW is because it’s still not a major potting medium in practice. So, currently not vitally harmful.
But for gardening and container gardening aspect, pine needles is a very good substitute. I suggest people to try it. It’s very cheap, and you can control the size of them by chopping them finer or leave them longer, so they perform differently on aeration and water holding ability, depends on what you want. The only down side of it is the hydrophobic nature. Many commercial peat moss in the market are treated, so the hydrophobic phenomenon is not very obvious, but the pine needles are obvious. What I do is I use a mist bottle to mist all the surface first, and then water it with watering can.
Maybe horticulture hobbyists can try this medium more often.
The decompose process of pine needles in the container is about 3 years. So remember to repot them every 3 years.
Thanks for your insights! I haven't tried pine needles here.
Dont mistake me as arguing against your point, because I agree. The issue, I think, is that a forest can regrow much much faster than a peat bog can. There ideally would be a "green" solution to harvesting peat like there is with forestry, but I suspect the issue has not been studied as much. By 'green' I would mean: selecting x number of trees in a given area, replanting, etc. Maybe they do that with peat, but I suspect they dont.
Thanks Alex. Forestry has definitely been under management with a much longer track record, so I take your point on there being less time for study. That said, I think your initial assumption (that forests regrow faster than peat) is questionable. Here's what I was able to read in the studies: current peat harvesting basically follows the "clear cut" model from forestry, where a block of land is harvested all at once, and then is replanted promptly after the harvest. However, unlike in the forests, where the replanted block can take decades to fill in and reach full productivity, the restored peat land can return to full productivity in around 5 years. Neither one will be the same as it was before harvest - and might not accumulate "old growth" levels of peat or wood even in the timescale of a hundred years. No, I don't see how you could find the equivalent of the selective logging approach - but I've seen mixed reviews of how green that approach is too.
Great video, thanks for putting this subject into perspective.
My pleasure.
good video, well explained, thanks. how about a recipie for how much lime to add to raw peat to bring it to a p.h. of 6.4 . if you could thst would be very helpfull in saving money. thanks!
There's loads of potting mix recipes out there, and a pretty standard rate I see used is 1/4 cup of lime in 6 gallon of peat or peat/perlite mix. I'm sure this isn't precise, as peat moss will even vary in pH by batch and supplier, but it might be a good place to start.
@@FraserValleyRoseFarm wow responds on christmas eve! good service. i see what your saying , i think what your meaning is to a potting type soil mix with lime already in it, is it? what i've always been looking for but havn't been able to find is a recipe made from raw peat , like the unlimed sunshine peat bales, or is this what you mean. if not do you have that info? thanks , love your videos , hope you weren't flooded, and merry christmas!
Yes, the 1/4cup lime would be added to 6 gallons of (expanded) baled peat to correct the pH. As mentioned, the ratio won't be exact because even baled peat varies in pH, but it's a place to start. Usually growers will also mix around 10 to 20% perlite to improve drainage.
@5:19 the plants to the right of screen, what are they? I grow sea holly (Eryngium 'Blue Hobbit' ) but these look so much more spectacular - and probably aren't remotely related.
Hi Allister - they're echinops ritro, globe thistle. So similar in color to eryngium, but you're right, two different families: echinops is in the daisy family, eryngium in the carrot family.
Very nicely laid out.
Thanks Steve.
Ain't no party like a peat-based party! Jah! Hey Jason, as a side note, I have been realizing this year how much easier the sale of plants are when I only offer one type of plant, instead of having a variety. I sell evergreen trees and have noticed even by offering 4 types of tree, it can create more questions/decisions for the customer, which leads to more correspondence (time) for me. In addition to the time it takes to do inventory and propagation for each variety. As someone who would prefer to just grow the plants and not have to deal with customers and selling them, I was curious if you've done a cost analysis on the idea of getting really good at growing one type of plant versus growing a variety. Any input would be appreciated. Jah Bless!
Thanks. It's a good topic, and I may have to make a video on it. My initial feeling is that it may have a lot to do with your customers/distribution. At the farmers market, I always found that more assortment = more sales, but that's really depending on walk-by traffic, so it's a bit more like retail. There's a definite advantage to keeping your assortment narrow. Here in my local area, some people grow a single variety of hedging cedar - and because it's a common landscaping choice, there's a large and ready market to be tapped (with a simple Facebook or Craigslist ad). I'm sure for the landscape trade, I could get myself down to just a few common varieties of roses - but they wouldn't appeal to serious rose gardeners who are willing to pay a bit more for something less commonplace.
@@FraserValleyRoseFarm ah makes sense. I guess there’s a market for everything. Kinda like your previous video about your friend focusing on edible plants and you honing in on ornamentals. I guess here in my area of WI it seems like selling privacy/windbreak trees is easier than selling rare dwarf conifers. And no one just buys just one hedging plant 🤑. Thanks Jason.
Found that sphagnum was quite good at starting very hot pepper seeds. surprised me.
Hello.
Could you please do a video on the best way to do dafne propagation . Please
Thanks for the suggestion Jacob. I'll put it on the list and see if the opportunity arises.
You always make me 😂. Still laughing Jason. Love you
Air dried, minimally handled coarse or chunky peat is hard to get now because shipping cost is more because of the weight.
I have heard the use of natural gas to dry the very fine ground peat accounts for a major part of the price.
I think the less processed product is very long lasting in plantings and I would love to find a source to use with Kalmia and Rhododendrons.
I am very much pro peat!
Thanks Wayne. What I've heard (and I could be wrong on this) is that Canadian peat is all pretty much a single grade, and all of the specialty peat sizes come from Europe, and so shipping can factor into it a lot. I ended up using a long-fiber peat blend from Pindstrup at one point, and it was an excellent choice even for succulents and moisture sensitive crops.
@@FraserValleyRoseFarm Thank you for your reply!
The peat industry has really gone all out with engineered blends to allow automated fillers to work well in plug containers and I know that they must go where the money is.
Fisons used to have their train cars of coarse peat ( blue labeled) on a siding in Delta before being moved elsewhere and when I knew they had some I would phone and they would not speak truthfully to me.
All fun and games really!
Enjoy your season and thank you for your videos!
Hello! I have a question about watering roses/climbing roses: I recently got one and whenever there's new growth, a 'branch' becomes yellow and falls off, it's pretty much bald from the middle area. The temperature here is 39-45 degrees celsius in summers and I water daily. Oh also, some of the leaves have brown tips and most are droopy but look fresh. I'm extremely confused, please help.
I wish I could offer better advice for a very warm climate like yours - but I just don't have the experience. If you can assess the moisture level of the soil, that may give you some clues. If it's in the ground, try digging down nearby. Maybe do this before watering one day - and see if the soil is already wet. If so, maybe you're overwatering and that can cause root damage / problems with nutrient uptake.
@@FraserValleyRoseFarm Alright, thank you! I'll try that.
Hi, sorry this is off topic.....Why are leaves growing out of the tops of my rose buds? Should I trim them off or will they fold back on their own when the bud develops? Thanks.
If it's what I'm thinking, those are just the sepals. Some varieties have more prominent sepals that others and they will curl back behind the flower when it opens.
@@FraserValleyRoseFarm Thank you for your response. I am so hoping that is all it is. I transplanted this old overgrown rose (hybrid tea I think) that I inherited and the first growth was quite deformed.....bright red and twisted. I was afraid of rose rosette but it has straightened out nicely and I have had one rose so far, and now four more buds and more squiggly foliage. Fingers crossed!
The university of Leipzig published a scientific paper last year about peat moss, cocoanut coir, artificial substrates and #Mycorrhiza. Mycorrhiza could not proliferate on these substrates together with tomatoes. Lower quality of tomatoes was a result.
Here in Germany the sale of peat moss is going to be banned officially.
Thanks Kati.
Well said,and maybe even courageous.
Hi Jason, another great video. I have a question about rose identification. I recently moved into a new place with a number of established roses - I think primarily hybrid teas. Cherry reds, deep burgundies, hot pinks, soft pinks, and a peach-coloured one. Is there any way (short of a DNA test) to determine what cultivars of rose we have in our garden? Are there any books/online resources that can help me narrow down the possibilities?
I'd start by checking your local nurseries and the garden departments of big box stores in the spring. There's some chance that the very same varieties are being sold locally - generally, these retailers use the same suppliers for a number of years and even have "habits" about which ones they'll offer. I don't know what the odds are that the previous owner bought from one of these local sources, but it's a starting point (and way more targeted than going through Helpmefind). If there are still some that you can't ID, get some good pictures of the blooms, foliage and habit, and post to a rose-related Facebook group. Lots of folks there are familiar with the more commonly available varieties.
Can you take dry, powdered peat, and get it to regrow as Sphagnum moss?
No. There's no living moss or spores in dried chopped peat.
Well put, Jason: seems you led with your chin on this one... Without commercial horticulture, we just wouldn't even have food on the table in our largely urban Western society.
What wetting agent do you use or recommend? Thanks!
Hi Susan. I've used Agral 90 with good results.
We are lucky to understand conservationism. It’s new, too bad that our resources, be it natural in the environment or intentional reproduction has to be “endangered” to be recognized as important, once it’s recognized we get conservation efforts to minimize the destruction and optimize future access. Every individual must recognize this on their own and contribute positively. That means we are intentionally conserving our resources as we need to meet supply and demand. It all goes together, you can’t be just part of the problem without being part of the solution and vice versa. Seek to understand everything.
Great info that I’ve never heard before. What do you think of using coconut coir instead of peat? I’ve tried it and found it to retain too much water. Thanks Jason!!
Thanks Paul. I've done fine with coir - it seems to retain its bulk nicely (in comparison to peat, which does seem to shrink over time).
Hi, Jason, I've recently subscribed to your channel which I find very useful and reliable, so thank you for that. However this video appears to miss the main reason for moving away from peat. The reason for leaving peat in the ground is not that it is a finite resource but because of its vast capacity to lock up the elements that contribute to climate change. For this reason it can't be compared to forestry or other resources that you compare it to. Also, peat is not simply a Canadian or North American resource, it has a global impact.
Thanks Donald. I appreciate your thoughtful comments. I chose the forest example carefully, and it also works as good context on the greenhouse gas question. I've seen studies that show that peat biomass can accumulate carbon at a rate 3x as high as trees in forests. That's a good news for both your argument and mine. You see, it turns out that in the Canadian example, forest occupies just about exactly 3 times the space as peat land. In total then, the forested land has approximately the same potential as peat to accumulate C, which highlights the asymmetric approach around banning and condemning the resulting products. To spell it out more directly, if the carbon sequestering capacity of one is equal to the other, then why is it okay to harvest one at a relatively robust rate, but not okay to harvest the other at a much lower rate? But if you'll indulge me, I hope I can incorporate an even broader context here. It's clear that the current rate of peat accumulation is much higher (about 60 times higher) than the harvest. By any standards, this makes the management of peatlands for this use a net positive for carbon capture. This would be one good measure of the sustainability of the industry - but sustainability isn't just about carbon. It also includes the restoration of habitat (which is a part of the current regulatory framework) and economic sustainability. I don't want to get too sidetracked on this point, but I think it can be fairly said that economic viability (both for the industry and the government) adds tools to the toolkit of wetland protection. The peat harvest, at its current scale, appears to be both sustainable and able to remain net positive for carbon capture. When I see it being condemned, I wonder why it would be singled out against a backdrop of other resource industries that *cannot* make the same claim. Can we say the same for coal, oil and gas? Clearly not. Can we say the same about agriculture? No. How about mining? Fishing? Hunting? Or if we're able to stray outside of natural resources, let's look at transportation, manufacturing or hospitality? I'm ready to be wrong, but I don't think you'd claim that any of these others could be called both long-term sustainable AND on the right side of carbon neutral. So then, I have to ask - what explains (some successful!) calls for bans on this tiny speck of an industry when a proposed ban on forestry, mining or agriculture (or any of the others) would be dead in the water? Could it be that the economic consequences of addressing these much larger, dirtier industries would be unthinkable? The way I read it, it's so that we can make the token effort of tackling a small, rather benign issue - score political and ideological points along the way - and not have to look too hard at anything really consequential.
So Donald, then burning the rain forests in Brazil isn’t effecting the climate except for the smoke? I think you are missing a bunch of facts, dear.
@@elsagrace3893 What facts am I missing (dear)? How do you possibly get from what I said that burning the rain forests isn't *e*ffecting the climate except for the smoke?!
What is peat made of? Is it the same as coconut core?
No, it's harvested from peat bogs - moss and other materials accumulate in the floor of the bog over a long period of time.
I see. Thank you very much for responding. I will have to start using it in my garden.
Love your videos Jason, what’s your suggestions for overwintering panicle hydrangeas in pots. I have 2 hydrangeas in pots a limelight and a bobo and I really don’t want them to die and I’m new at gardening this year. Thank you for the wonderful advices on different things. 🙂
Hi Kay - it depends on your climate. In my area (zone 8) I don't need to offer any protection to hydrangeas. In a colder climate, you might consider moving the whole container into a more sheltered area - and unheated shed or garage is sort of ideal.
Fraser Valley Rose Farm sorry Jason I should have put in my zone is 5b 🙂
Thank you!!
Do you have an opinion on coco coir?
I've used it in mixes, and found it to work nicely. It seems to hold its volume and structure a bit longer than peat.
I have commented against the use of peat in another video. It was a hurried, throwaway comment. However, to my mind using something like coco coir which ordinarily might be garbage is preferable, all other things being equal. So good video. Here in southern ontario, we have a lot of deciduous leaves. These coupled with grass clippings left long in the fall make an excellent compost/potting soil. I realize this might not be commercially viable. I would really like the discussion of peat as a finite resource to influence the lawn growers out there who top dress, fertilize and cut twice a week. Unfortunately those people aren't watching this video.
Hi Mark. Thanks for your input, and you make a good point: even if I think there can be a reasonable/sustainable harvest of peat, I still think a gardener should give good consideration about how to use it most wisely. Myself, I use it occasionally as part of a propagation blend. In small pots and plug trays, it goes a long way. For larger pots, I grow mainly in a composted bark blend from the local forest industry. I think coir is a fine product, but I'm not confident that it's processed sustainably in the countries of origin. At least here, I know there's regulatory and other community pressure to keep the industry in line.
Great video mate. Everything has a cost to the environment, whether its fossil fuels or forests or coal to make steel. People should concentrate their efforts in minimising their own footprints instead of bitching at other people trying to make their way in the world. After all, if everyone was vegan, there would not be enough land to sustain us all.
Peat bogs are ancient and can never be replaced. They are a special environment with their own flora and fauna and they soak up rain to prevent flooding. Why do we have to destroy our irreplaceable environment for no good reason?
I believe we should all do our part. Being knowledgeable of both perspectives are necessary for a solution.
@@kathleenlodahl1358 We have to do something for sure and it needs to be bigger and bolder steps now. Governments need to sign up because time is running out if things aren't beyond recovery already.
If everyone were vegan there’d not be land to sustain us? Please explain. Cattle farming uses up 40% of all landmass in the US.
Than you for sharing
Your roses are rocking
great vid thanks
Well said 👏
I personally don't use peat for the following reasons:
- Its expensive (where I live).
- There are cheaper options such as coco-coir, bark and compost.
- Its important for wetland ecology and acts as a carbon sink.
I'm not anti-peat, people can use whatever they want. I prefer not to use it if I don't need to.
Thanks Laura for sharing your thoughts on it. You're doing what a thoughtful gardener should - consider the pros and cons, and make the right decision for your situation.
Peat is used for acidic plants. Coco-coir is a balanced PH. It really depends on your PH needs.
@@draconisdragonheart4248 Correct. You add amenities to coco-coir, but peat on its own is awesome for acid loving plants.
I’m from Scotland and I’d be surprised if even 0.1% of the population here or in Ireland use peat for heating these days. Maybe 100 years ago 😅
Thanks for adding this. I was wondering how widespread that practice is.
I do think that some ancient peat lands should be conserved but resource exploition is part of many economies, so probably should. I think Canada is currently the largest producer of diamonds. Lucky bastards.
I personally don't use peat because it's too expensive in South Africa.
I love your videos, but please out some subtitles. I hearing is bad.
Thanks Tony. RUclips glitched badly on this one (the captions are amusingly nonsensical, but don't correlate at all to the topic). I'm trying to get it fixed.
It's sad that even gardening has become political.
It's not political. It's environmental.
Helen Trope environmental is the big political ticket at the moment. Extinction rebellion, green new deal, eat less meat, get rid of the cows, its bad for the environment, little do they realise that once you disturb and mess with the eco system the planet's finished.
@@jacquilayton2557 I think that's the point they are making. We are all messing with the eco system and it's going beyond the point of recovery in a way that's habitable for humankind . The science is on the side of this being factual rather than political opinion. Those who reject the idea tend to call it 'political'.
Hi Helen. I hope you don't feel like you're taking the brunt of this discussion because you present a differing opinion. The fact that you're here with your own personal environmental concerns is a credit to you!
Sadly, I can think of a few counterexamples where politics have made things worse and not better.
Peat will suffocate roots without the perlite…I prefer compost and pumice
Thanks Jennifer. Yeah, straight pet is a bit on the dense side - but in a blend with perlite (and I also like some coarse composted bark for perennials) it works great. Pumice is one I don't see used a lot, but does lend some nice weight and stability when compared to perlite.
@@FraserValleyRoseFarm pumice is available in Oregon by the truckload…all those old volcanoes, you know..I just moved back to Washington and have to pay for shipping bags of it….I did azalea cuttings in straight pumice…sifted out all the fine particle first…bonsai growers use it with bark manure composted well….that is before putting them in bonsai pots..you are right about peat not rehydrating well…I dumped a bag of peat around some old rhododendrons….water bounced right off it….
As a consumer I really don't like buying peat based products. The moss layer of peat takes carbon from the air and puts it back into the ground. A huge amount of methane is released when the bog is cut. Simply placing the top layer back doesn't address the methane issue. The methane released I'd a "greenhouse gas" and contributes to warming. I can't look at a beautifully grown annual, grown in peat in a plastic pot and not recognise the negative impact on the environment. My response is to grow more of my own annual plants using sifted homemade compost mixes because the horticultural industry has been painfully slow to respond. There is no easy answer, but one only has to look at recent weather events around the world to know that it is time to find an alternative. I would happily pay more for plants grown sustainably.
I think more concern over China building huge coal power plants in Africa on the global climate change over peat harvesting.
Thanks Elisabeth. Like you said, "no easy answer", and I completely agree. The suggested replacements are not without ecological impacts of their own. When you place it in the context of your concerns about global warming, that's a valid argument - but of course, there's no part of natural resource management in Canada (that I know of) that you could claim to be carbon neutral, and many are far more serious (in scale) than peat. I'll respect and even applaud your decision to avoid peat in plants for your garden - as personal action against climate change. My overall chagrin is directed at those who would call for a ban or boycott on this one product, but see no problem in flying the family down for a tropical vacation, importing Italian marble countertops and chatting happily away on their iPhone (without any thought for the ecological impacts of those decisions). It just seems rather arbitrary and "token"
There is a reliable alternative made from recycled paper: pittmoss.com/ - however, it may be the case that the production process for this alternative actually does more damage than the harvesting of peat. It's a complicated world. Who knows, just throwing it out there.
Thanks Ilo. Always good to hear about other alternatives!
🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
We are not supposed to use peat now.
@Helen Trope please provide detailed reasons why not, what is a more appropriate option, and exactly why that option is preferred.
@@demesrvl6761 I'm no expert, but peat bogs are ancient and irreplaceable and they soak up water to prevent flooding, and they are part of the environment that we are gradually destroying and can never replace. There are other options I believe if you talk to enlightened garden centres who know what the alternatives are. Of course people may say peat is the best option but we can't keep destroying peat bogs just like we can't keep destroying the rain forests. We will pay a huge environmental and climate change price in the end if we do.
Thanks Helen. I don't think I sent you this link, but for an alternate point of view, I think Robert Pavlis does a great job of researching an presenting the issue: www.gardenmyths.com/peat-peatmoss-true-story/
Lol Jason
Ahhh lol a weeeee bita hobbit in yer accent eh
Lol. I never would have thought it... but thanks for a good laugh
Thank you!