Valve Killed Community Projects - It's Worse Than You Think
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- Опубликовано: 13 сен 2024
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Valve has taken down Portal 64 and Team Fortress 2: Source 2 today. Valve has allegedly also been doing some other related actions behind the scenes for months now. Things have changed, and things aren't great for creators.
Team Fortress 2 Source 2: / 193etzo and github.com/git...
Portal 64: / 1745150271230038228
The other projects will remain un-named to possibly save the project from the same fate. It's more than likely hopeless, however.
Valve News Network (VNN) is now Tyler McVicker.
Contact Me: tylernewsnetwork@gmail.com
#VALVE #DMCA #TF2
![[TF2] Would Source 2 Even Help?](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/SYMZMEKr5nA/mqdefault.jpg)
![[TF2] Would Source 2 Even Help?](/img/tr.png)
I trimmed a section out of today's video due not explaining the situation well enough in my opinion.
Let me try again.
A known valvesoftware. com email addressed, belonging to a known member of Valve's own legal team sent the STRIKE to a RUclipsr over use of "Team Fortress 2"
Attempt to contact the email address resulted in a response from the owner of the email address, being the member of the Valve legal team.
The email that the creators got back stated;
"Our TF team reported the content. Was your video created with Source Filmmaker?"
If the email used was a lie, contacting that email would result in confusion, however, the person seemed to know, to an extent.
TF seems this person took down the video, even though the "TF team" likely wanted the project taken down, not the video. The video was an example.
That is to say that Valve does not support their IP being used in non-Valve owned engines, and might take down those projects.
The RUclips strike, although most likely real, may have been a strange misunderstanding by the legal team involved, maybe.
tl;dr
-known valve legal team email sends strike
-email contacted, person behind email knows of video
-valve legal person possibly (hopefully) misunderstands what the "tf team" was telling them when reporting said video
only time will tell - this is so weird for Valve
This sounds like a miscommunication between the "TF team" and the legal department. When you have people with different specializations communicating it can easily result in misunderstandings. I hope that's the case here and the strike gets retracted.
I think that valve might be up to something last time they took down a fan game it was a s&box game that was a port of cs:go in source 2 and they did this around 3-5 months before cs 2 was annouced so who knows? Maybe it's just history repiting it self or valve is just getting mad about the game being made in s&box and using their assets without being a direct mod on steam or the workshop
Time will show
Stop spreading misinformation.
it's true, the project developers of TFVR confirmed the names of youtubers that got DMCA strikes on their vids of this project.@@Wolfiexero
This current legal stuff is just depressing, high on that copium and I'm praying that management works stuff out with this new legal team.
The only thing I kinda don't understand is portal 64
@@Jaxv3r Its probably a Nintendo takedown or maybe Valve asked Nintendo and Nintendo was not happy (like with dolphin emulator on steam)
@@tomeshec1122 but how the f does nintendo have a say in what programs you are launching on your own 64?!
@@tomclanys Because Nintendo owns the console.
@@tomclanys To launch the game on an actual N64 you had to patch a rom which involved redistribution of private libraries owned by Nintendo.
Lessons from Nintendo:
1. Don't announce your fan project
2. Work on it in secret
3. Release it only when it is 100% done. This should also be the first time anyone is aware of it.
4. Release it anonymously and don't connect with the community to avoid being traced.
5. Release it when the company's legal team is likely asleep to maximize release time.
6. Throw up a .torrent file or magnet link as an alternate download for good measure.
There are a number of good fan project that got taken down but still live on because the authors followed this guide especially steps 1-3. Project AM2R, Link's Awakening HD are two that come to mind.
Also everyone, Gabe N still reads all his emails, right? Let him know what you think (politely).
Criken's Nick Cage texture pack for N64 Zeldas...good times
Two more things.
Share the source code, if the source code is available its more likely to survive and be maintained by the community.
If you use official assets make the player provide their own files of the game and extract them from there.
I am completely sure that the emails sent will not be polite...
Nintendo doesn't care about every fan project. But recreating an existing game/making a game same in concept to one they plan to release soon is how you really get struck. And for romhacks dont just release the edited rom release a patch file. Or something that damages the look of Mario or other characters.
For Pokémon abandon all hope as Nintendo doesn't control this and Gamefreak will go after anything.
@@something4922 Nintendo cares about every fan project that uses their IP.
what literally everyone is ignoring is that facepunch themselves never allowed valve's content in s&box because they didn't want to pay valve for it and will take down everything related to valve themselves either way, it was literally going to be inevitable, valve just decided not to wait until facepunch do it and enforce their own steam subscriber agreement (also probably because it was open source too)
as for portal 64, valve probably just dont want to deal with nintendo's legal team because as far as I understand, the proprietary libraries used aren't legally available for public
This one needs to be higher in the comments
i really hope youre right
@@itsmeblue9 he is, otherwise the recent Portal: Revolution would've also have been taken down.
Honestly stuff like this is why I stopped watching Tyler, I occasionally hop in to see if he has gotten better. But nope, he's still taking things in the most disingenuous ways it feels like and spreading hatred. I genuinely want him to improve, but it feels like he just gets worse and worse.
@@woshee_real Well the things is with Revolution is that they had to first ask Valve for use and license of the engine meaning that Valve had approved the use of their property from the beginning, at least that was the steam description says as well as it was released on steam and again valve approved, but TFS2 and P64 were completely outside of valve's reach, they never got any approval or license and were never released on steam, only outside sources.
The point is Portal: Revolution can't be compared to these projects
So ironic how Team Fortress 1 was a mod of Quake. Imagine if they got a DMCA take down back then from the Quake devs.
And Counter-Strike, valves most profitable IP, used to be a Half-Life mod. Which just proves how important modding is to the game industry, but god forbit someone does something that doesn't directly translate to profit.
yeah the only very minor difference is that... it wasn't owned by quake devs 😐
the difference is that team fortress 1 isnt just a port of quake's exact gameplay to a different engine
The this is that TF1 was an original product using some-one else's engine. TF2S2 is a someone else's IP using someone else's engine on someone else's platform.
It's worse than that. GoldSource, the engine that ran the original half life, was a modified Quake engine. What if Id software took them to court from the get-go? Valve as a company simply would not exist at all.
I'm not defending any of these practices, but it should be noted that development had been halted on TFs2 due to engine issues and updates to S&box, and they decided to stop development, the DMCA notice was the final nail in the coffin.
This is because Garry update ALL The code. This is The reason that almost allá modes and gamers aren broken and The contenta of YT desde for 6 months
@@transitcombine9057was your comment some sorta mix between English and Spanish?
Also he defended crypto on Steam? Wat
@@Bromon655it sadly does read like that 😂
@@transitcombine9057Ubitalk
Happy 7th year anniversary since the last TF2 comic issue btw
💀
💀
"Coming soon"
💀
F in the chat
A similar thing happened with Doom before. One guy on Moddb made a standalone mod called Doom Remake 4. But since it was standalone and didn’t need Doom 1 or Doom 2, it caused legal problems. And therefore Id Software sent the creator a cease and desist.
Unfortunately they're well within their rights to do so if art from the original game was used. If it's just the code (and new art) there's no precedent/standing. Doom's code has been open-source for decades
The C&D was apparently just made up, being copied word by word from an actual letter pointed towards a remake of a Star Wars game; “Doom Remake” itself was known to contain assets stolen from many other DOOM mods. However despite this, the damage had already been done.
@@traindoctor Yeah, I agree, in that case it was the modder's mistake.
Also the remake was absolutely horrendous, one of the worst things ever made on GZDoom. I hate how the image of GZDoom modding became that for a while. GZDoom's community offers so much more.
Not to be devil's advocate, but doom remake 4 was a different case, the textures, music and most of the code was stolen from other devs and mod's, so the mod was basically a bunch of stolen assets with an extra coat of specular paint all over it and no credit was given to the devs from which it took the assets from.
@@AlphaEnt2 And they covered it up with a fake C&D from id.
1:35 Valve did this with Dolphin Emulator. Valve’s own legal team reached out to Nintendo first before they did the takedown. It’s safe to assume Valve did this and not Nintendo, since it’s likely a preemptive takedown to avoid dealing with it altogether. It wasn’t a straight DMCA but that seemed like the sentiment when they asked to remove Portal 64.
its the other way around, Nintendo DEMANDED them to take it down.
@@flippeee5Valve reached out to Nintendo first before they did. They came to an agreement and Dolphin was wiped by Valve once Nintendo’s legal team issued their statement. Valve initiated it first, we just don’t know the full details yet on Portal 64 and whether or not they reached out to Nintendo.
@@BigSlopPie It wouldn't make sense for them to reach out to Nintendo when Portal64 wasn't on steam to begin with.
@suuslime3908 The game used copyrighted Nintendo libraries to run on the N64, and it's based on a Valve IP. The video says this, maybe watch it.
@@evdestroy5304 They do not have the obligation to do anything about it. It's on Nintendo for that, so Valve doing it means they also have a reason beyond the Nintendo 64 libraries being used. And even IF Nintendo made the first strike, a Nintendo DMCA would not cause Valve any harm whatsoever.
I saw another video further explaning this from another perspective.
It clarifies that TF2:S2's takedown was done because the dev team PORTED TF2 assets and code into Source 2 without Valves EXPLICIT permission meaning that its their legal right to take it down whether you dislike it or not.
Porting Valve's assets and code to another game engine and trying to make it free without the base game (even though its Source 2) is still not legally ok
The same happened when someone was trying to port CS:GO to Source 2 and Valve issued a DMCA aswell, and mainly because they were already doing a Source 2 remaster but still the point stands that porting assets from one engine to another without permission or a license is not legal in anyway.
Many of you will still say "But what about Quake Team Fortress?" That was a mod with in the Quake engine and did not port anything. It made new assets from scratch and obviously its okay.
Half-Life's Gold Source Engine was modified after the Quake engine BUT it was a paid license, so Valve was able to modifiy the engine to their needs.
TF Classic was after Valve bought the rights to Team Fortress and gave them a license to Gold Source.
Counter Strike still required you to have Half-Life to begin with.
Same with Garry's mod and eventually Garry got a license to Source and the rest is history as the same is with S&Box, Garry has a license to Source 2.
Black Mesa had the same start up, started as a mod with new assets then gained a license from Valve and even some devs to help out for its retail release.
Now for the Portal 64 game. Valve did contact the developer BUT to warn them about Nintendo's legal team since they used the N64's visual libraries and eventually they decided to shut it down.
Valve still cares about mods, Source Mods especially.
But if you cross the line from their modding philosophy, you are bound to face legal issues.
A bit of a word about Portal 64: Valve wanted the Portal 64 repo to be taken down because it was conflating their IPs with a project that was distributing Nintendo’s code. Valve most likely took it down to avoid getting in trouble with Nintendo.
Well, take it from us TF2 players, Valve: You can't always get what you want
@@Mordecai02 Your logic makes no sense to me. They are a company, and they did what they thought best from a company standpoint.
They either had to takedown a game, or suffer a potential legal issue... one of these is an easier and has less headaches.
Honestly Valve's reasoning for this decision makes no sense to me. How could Valve get in trouble with Nintendo for a fan-made project that they have nothing to do with?
@@mepblep I’m pretty sure it was more so Valve trying to protect the person making the project more so than them trying not get sued.
Basically due to how Nintendo is, Valve likely decided to step in and advise the creator of Portal 64 to halt development permanently since the project was technically illegal, and considering how little Nintendo cares about how much they ruin someone’s life, it was likely for the better.
@@mepblep Because it's Nintendo, they're extremely litigious and when dealing with ANYTHING AT ALL in regards to them you have to be constantly walking on eggshells. They are a extremely archaic company, and considering what happened to people already Valve made a smart move. It's just not worth it at the end of the day. If the Portal 64 dev used LibDragon instead (which is open source) most likely they would have been fine with it.
Problem being we won't get a answer to that because the Portal 64 dev is auto assuming they'll deny it anyway so he's not pursuing. That's on him.
Correction: Valve has never ever allowed their IP to be used in standalone games-ever. They have either been mods of the original base game, which could integrate the content of that base game, or Valve has officially licensed the game to be standalone; except for the caveat that they had to use their engine as part of the license agreement.
Examples of this are Counter-Strike, Sven Co-Op, Black Mesa, Garry's Mod and many more. All of them have started as a mod on top of the base game before being approached by Valve for a license agreement.
And as you already mentioned, OpenFortress and TF2Classic also received cease and desist from Valve in late 2021. The former project used reverse engineered gameplay code (and could therefore not open source their project ironically enough) and the latter using leaked Valve owned source code. But neither of them redistributed content. Which is important to note when you compare these projects and TF2:S2.
Another thing is that we cannot truly verify whether TF2:S2 was actually a black box implementation. It even makes things murkier because it was open source, and anyone could contribute, without any verification on whether they had seen or access to any leaked source code.
This is the same issue you will see with Xash/FWGS, and the reason you cannot distribute games that uses that engine, or a derivative of it.
100% this, people are crying over nothing
literallly nothing in this is a new thing, valve don't want to fight with Nintendo and valve want fanproject to be free on Steam or with a contract with them directly
s&box is not steam, its in its own marketplace and so the project need to be purged simple as
Yeah, people overdramatazing again. Mods that still require original game as a base should not be affected anyway. And this is pretty much the majority of source mods, including all the greatest ones.
Thanks for bringing some context to the whole thing. Parts of the community, including Tyler, are making way too much drama out of this in my opinion.
Exactly
Tyler is lying - Valve still supports mods. For example: Portal: Revolution 2024, Half-Life 2 VR Mod 2023, Black Mesa: Blue Shift 2023
Just gonna say that
1: Source 2 is not a completed engine yet. There are features still being added and valve has not reached their goals for it yet.
2: Source 2 has not been released to the public, and no SDK exists
3: Valve is not selling licenses to Source 2
4: S&box is currently mid-development and has no current release date
5: Many projects are being made with the source engine that still have support from valve. Valve is just very touchy about UNRELEASED stuff (like source 2) because of their 2004 HL2 leak incident, and will protect THEIR property until they deem it is ready for public release.
Point 5: Didnt Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines get beta access of the source engine before Valve released Half life 2? It runs on a beta version of the Source 1 engine.
@@ChrisBa303 They probably came forward to Valve and asked for a license, which they have to pay for.
Do you have any reputable sources that Valve is actually developing Source 2 since the release of half life alyx?
@@bullshitdepartment cs2
@@bullshitdepartment counter-strike 2
I know this may be a long shot but we aren’t sure that whoever gave the DMCA takedown on TF2 source 2 is valve. People pointed out how some things were misspelled like misspelling S&Box to S@box. I know it’s a long shot but you never know, people impersonate companies to give copyright strikes and DMCA strikes all of the time
Yeah this is what I understand or at least hope.
not only that we already have precedent to this recently Stalker 2 Devs, GSC, had to deal with a bogus DMCA strike done on Open Xray, engine a community-made fork of their old stalker engine, which was done by a separete entity with malicious intent to discredit GSC.
Quit huffing copium. It's over. Valve is dead.
@@doktawhawee9870 quit smoking i think that would be better for you
Depressed tyler is definitely a mood in this video
Do you have a wooden leg?
@@dudemanjones11He won it in the war, in 1944
good
The more you sink in the harder it is to get out...
That's just Tyler ever.
None of this is unprecedented. The source 2 port was a group of people with no oversight or permission from valve porting not just their assets, but an entire valve game to a game/sdk which explicitly chose not to get a license to use valve's assets. This is not someone making an original game in the source or source 2 engine, nor is it a mod of any of their games. It was a fully unauthorized port that would be sold for money (indirectly due to s&box having a price tag once it comes out.)
This was not just a reasonable outcome, it was one that should've been expected eventually. Old Valve absolutely would have done the same thing, only they MIGHT have offered jobs to a few of the developers back then.
The comparison to taking down a gmod gamemode is laughable as well. GMOD is a half life mod at it's core, and has full permission to utilize valve's game assets in any way they want.
Actually i think the Portal64 thing is entirely Valve, Nintendo has straight up ignored N64 projects for years despite major stuff happening on that front (including actual retail games sold for real money)
most likely they dont want to deal with Nintendo bs
It's weird nintendo would gp after some random homebrew somebody made for the n64.
I've had ears on other projects, and no Nintendo has been notorious for not taking down initially till years later when its in a complete state.
@@RayanfhoulaBR Nintendo has shut down homebrew projects of their characters for the even older Commodore 64 (eg: the C64 SMB1 port) so this is painfully in-character for them.
@@forple8930mostly because they are Japanese people following American laws blame Disney on why Steamboat Willie is only now in the public domain 😅
But don't worry everyone, Valve completely greenlit Hunt Down the Freeman. You know, standing behind the true top quality projects.
I think that is a problema betwen into Source2, Source2 and S&box.
Hunt down the freeman literally caused the greenlight system to die lol
@@skydub7844 lol
aww man I was really looking forward to Portal64.
That guy was really cool and I hope he has something cool to move on to or can work out a way around it.
The download is still up, I don't know what's going on with that. Downloaded it right now just in case.
@deadchannel758 please archive it
make a torrent file n post it if it gets shut down please
Since this is Nintendo we're talking about, the workaround is unfortunately to use a Russian host outside their legal jurisdiction.
Surely Valve has to realise what a PR nightmare this is going to be in the long term, they cannot be THAT stupid. I'm actually in shock about this whole situation, this is something I'd never expect from them.
You would think it would be a PR nightmare for them to allow bots to completely over run one of their top multiplayer games too. Well, it was, Valve just doesn't care.
I think its a communication problem. they hired a new legal team that has no experience with the gaming community and let them run around doing their thing
They did this a few years ago with the TF2C and OF takedowns, and pretty much everyone has forgotten about those.
@@cheatsykoopa98Probable is this.
@@evdestroy5304 nobody forgot about them, in fact ever since we've living it one day at a time.
bro The TF Source 2 mod just wholesale lifted the assets out of TF2 and put them in S&box. This is against the rules of both Steam and S&box themselves. Plus the developers had already said they weren't continuing development, the DMCA just meant they were taking down what was already done.
Dark times are upon us…
No.
Yes.
@@morganwhite9972no actually
This is unusual for valve. I hope that the TF2S2 gets resolved
From my understanding the TF2S2 project had basically already been canned because of the source code issues, Valve's DMCA just happened to be the final nail. Correct me if I'm wrong.
They shut down CSGOS2 aswell, but that wasn't long before CS2 was announced. Very unlikely for TF2 though
@@thunderslug1066 with how valve has treated tf2 since 2017, I *highly doubt* it’ll get the same blessing CS did.
@@nigelrichardson4327 fully agree, valve should be ashamed of themselves the way they neglect TF2 but continue to rake in the profits.
@@thunderslug1066solo this is The 2nd shutdow of valve insiste of S&box? Wow... Xd
This explains why TF2C and Open Fortress were ghosted quite some time ago.
TF2 source 2 was ghosted for other reasons, mainly due to S&Box code becoming incredibly hard to work with, the valve DMCA was just the icing on the cake
@@Alkivo I think they meant Team Fortress 2 Classic not Source 2?
In what way does this explain anything.
@@LazyJesse No, the creators of TF2 source 2 said they were already planning on not working on it anymore for a couple of reasons, including difficult with s&box and a loss of interest
@@Mitchacho74 source? think that would help clarify the situation for a lot of folks
Valve has grown rich enough to forgo its roots and begin its destruction of everything it ever was.
almost, not quite. its still not a publicly traded company. that prevents quite a lot of the idiocy that corporations do.
@@e2rqeyOr enables it, if the big traders are psychopathic enough.
@@e2rqey was about to mention this as well. I have a lot of grudges against publicly traded companies but Valve have only a handful small ones.
@@e2rqey right, that's fair.
The open fortress stuff is maybe more weird, but the takedowns for portal 64 and the TF2source takedowns both made total sense.
Portal64 was explained as it was in this video. Not sure where, but I remember also reading somewhere that they even tried helping out the guy who made it by informing him of some libraries that could help him re-factor his code to AVOID nintendo's proprietary stuff. TF2 Source 2 was a mod that broke both Steam and S&box's rules regarding stuff like this and was already going to be stopped prior to the contact from valve. I don't think that these takedowns are signs of something else.
Just Tyler wanting an excuse to say Valve bad and ignoring context.
Guys, stop freaking out over TFs2 being DMCAed. It is the fan project that got a DMCA from valve because it is a straight up port with no new features, and you don’t require TF2 to play it. Valve is fine with other mods that expand on their ip and require you to have the game its based off of downloaded, like TF2C.
This is EXTREMELY disturbing. Valve, of course, has historically been pretty chill when it came to community projects involving their IPs, it's one of the things people like so much about them. If they change that in favor of being more like Nintendo in regards to copyright, it's gonna have immense repercussions for the fanbases of their various games, which have very prominent modding communities, and this will cause a LOT of shit to go down.
Valve suddenly becoming highly aggressive about their IPs in regards to community projects will surely cause backlash from the fanbases , and while I hope things are settled amicably for both parties, if Valve needs to get the message by receiving blowback from their considerably loyal community, so be it.
Prepare for unforeseen consequences, everyone...
It funny how portal revolution got released and doesn’t care about tf2 anymore
that was back when Gabe was involved in a lot of Valve's affairs. nowadays he is more like a figurehead rather than a leader. i'm sure his opinion and word can still steer the direction of the company but i don't think he'll bother nowadays with any of that.
@han-ns5zw tf2 got official vscript support , introduced VSH and a seasonal zombie horde mode, this without mentioning the amount of fixes and additions the game has had. the only reason you keep repeating that manthra is because you don't play tf2 at all
True
How is this EXTREMELY disturbing?
@@kuhpunkt The best AAA game developer in history suddenly being very out of character and going against their core message.
Knowing that Valve is acting like this recently kinda makes me worried for the future of TF2 especially since the bot problem is still ongoing with it almost being two years since the #SaveTF2 protest and that with a recent update, the item servers crashed and still as of writing, still hasn’t been fixed
Im surprised that Tyler didn't even talk about this at all.
Valve really needs to pay some attention to us TF2 players, we need a new major update or a major fix for all the problems
hi stickmaster its good to see you in a comments section again
The item servers are working in Europe, atleast for me
We need a real protest. Not an online protest
Listening to Tyler's voice get mellower and more somber over the time he's been doing this is frankly depressing. Not that I think he should stop, it should serve as a sign of the state of things. I implore anyone who reads this to check out some of his videos from years ago if you haven't.
No guys, valve is not suddenly becoming evil, TF source 2 used official assets without permission (which maybe a DMCA was a bit much, but they were well within their rights) and the portal n64 thing was just valve warning them so no one gets in trouble with Nintendo
Finally some sense in this comment section
A new legal team feels like the only real explanation behind these events because everything that's happened in the last 10 days was way out of left field for a game company that was built upon and prides itself around mods and its community. For them to just do a 180 and pull a Nintendo is disappointing because that's one of the biggest reasons why people respected Valve as highly as they did.
This isn't the "Orange Box Valve" anymore, and it's time for more people to start waking up to that realization.
They haven't cared about user generated content (that they can't sell for no effort) in a very, very long time. I'm talking at least a decade. What they "pride themselves on" is Steam. The fact that some people even think Steam is the company's name should say it all, lol.
of course it's not the "orange box valve" and is never going to be, however that doesn't mean people should be hyper over dramatic. as shown here
"I'm Tyler McVicker the passionate gamer."
Tyler McVicker said depressingly.
Didn’t know about either getting shut down, sucks because I was following both projects and was excited
Even if it's just a coincidence, doing this at the same time as the "capitalism and economy" sale has to be some of the worst optics I've seen from a company in a while.
this is so incredibly disappointing to me. the fact that valve is going out of their way to say "ai is okay actually!" yet is now shutting down projects that do have actual passion and effort put into them is insane to me
-Taking down TFS2 and Portal 64 with DMCA, despite being non-profit
-Refusal to communicate with TF2Classic
-Allowing AI to run rampant on the Steam Store ever since Apex started using it
-Refusal to fix TF2's botting problem, or CS2's bots/server issues/hacking problems, only focusing on Dota 2, a game that lost popularity in the only countries playing it
Its so over
They didn't take down Portal 64, they advised them to because it used a proprietary Nintendo library that would have been a major issue with Nintendo. TF2's bot problem and CS2's issues are all hard problems, and they are hardly focusing on Dota 2.
Nvidia? You mean Nintendo?
@@jeffnichter9805Yup, oop.
"only focusing on dota" meanwhile a few months back the game is completely unplayable, bugs here and there, in game lags causes by server, and lack of major update, also no TI battlepass despite ez money for valve
Till this day there a lot of years old bug that Haven't fixed
before being so overdramatic, wait and see. i know nobody likes waiting for an answer, but it's the only way right now
God, they need to STOP trying to appease Nintendo. They aren't their friends, they just act like they are. Nintendo only wants what is best for them and nobody else. Valve has always supported the community and creators.
True but so sad Gabe has lost his mind because he is too old
@han-ns5zw what has Gabe got to do with this?
they're not ? it's just 1 : business
2: avoiding any legal issues ?
altho this whole ordeal as other said is weird. something may be going on with the legal team
They would be forced to get into court together with that developer to give testimony and they don't want any of that heat, and i can understand that tbh
Court don't care if you're a homie
I wonder if all the steam lawsuits caused Valve to step up their lawyer workforce
you know it would be nice to at least ask valve about using it's assets
you know if you make a source mod then it's a source mod
but take other software and just take their assets and they are in the clear for taking it down
Average Tyler McVicker video ignoring context and blowing things out of proportion
If someone was still looking for evidence that Valve changed, this is that evidence. Hopefully enough bad press caused by this could cause Valve to reconsider these decisions.
the end starts now
@@Beutepanzer dude be real it was not a 1 to 1 reupload of tf2 to source 2
@@Beutepanzer You didn't have any of your steam items
@@Beutepanzershit ain't that simple and it was literally not even monetary no money was gained from it
@@BeutepanzerTbf Replicating a game on an entirely different engine is an EXTREMELY hard task because it is nowhere near as simple as copy and paste. Everything has to be remade from the ground up using different methods whilst trying its hardest to look like the original. Much harder than you seem to think.
I feel like if anything, valve should've consulted these people to make a deal, as the work they put in is very impressive and I feel like valve could use some of it to work on something for TF2 fans. Please anything other than letting all of this great work go in the trash.
ValVe has not changed.
Stuff like the original CS:GO mod required Half Life to work, meaning it was legal since you're using your legal copy of Half Life.
Gmod does not requires Half Life 2, however Garry got a license, tf2s2 did not get a license and it's not required to have Tf2 to run.
They're in all legal reason to take down the mod.
The Phantom Mod in question is Raising The Bar: Redux isn't it?
Why do you think so? He's pretty fine. But maybe i don't know something.
I'm hoping that the s&ndbox TF2 project take-down is because they are making an official TF2 S2 port, maybe similar to how they took down the CSGO S2 port so that CS2 can get all the spotlight.
Edit: Also Portal: Revolution exists anyway so
Open Fortress and Team Fortress 2 Classic were taken down a while back, and were allowed back up. If I had to guess, it's a similar reason of reusing code/assets from the games like with OF and TF2C, or at the very least I hope that's the reason. They may be helping the projects behind the scenes to be "made proper." As much as it makes little sense for them, it's also just the corporate thing to do to protect their assets.
OF and TF2C are up and running just fine still, even after being taken down by Valve. Most we can do is wait and see
Okay so, quick edit. I just found out what happened to Portal 64. Turns out Valve asked the creator if he could try and rewrite it without using Nintendo's proprietary library, and instead the free N64 Standard Library, because they didn't wanna get in trouble with Nintendo for his project. He said he couldn't, and that he'll close the project instead so that neither of them get in trouble. Wasn't a DMCA, and they weren't trying to take down the project, just trying to have it in a state where it couldn't get either side into legal trouble with Nintendo
also valve take down a source 2 port of cs:go 7 months before cs2 exrode.com/counter-strike/valve-is-shutting-down-a-project-to-port-csgo-to-source-2-and-players-have-no-doubt-what-this-means
The TF Source 2 thing is interesting because there's a modified version of TF2's leaked source code on GitHub, and yet nothing happened. What about the SFM, Wallpaper Engine, and Sega Mega Drive Classics Steam Workshop that's full of copyrighted content and other things that wouldn't fly with games on Steam?
Anyways, the funny thing about the Portal 64 thing is that it has better loading times than any of the Source Engine games, and won't hang the entire system when applying video settings.
Valve is quickly losing their goodwill with the community, especially after CS2's launch. If not for the Steam Store, their work towards improving Linux, and the Steam Deck, they would have completely lost my respect by now.
Gabe saying "a rushed game is bad forever, and we don't want to push that onto our customers" in the HL1 doc left a very sour taste after CS2's launch
And don't forget the leaked csgo code.
@@thunderslug1066 yeah that launch is worse than overwatch 2’s but we won’t see the backlash hit the forefront because “blizzard bad, valve good”.
TFs2 didn't have the right to use the assets it used. Calling it a mod when it's a from the ground up project is disingenuous. Valve JUST allowed a prominent portal mod to release on Steam. Gmod has a source license and takes models and assets directly from the game in your library, Sandbox (the thing TFs2 was built in) does not have such a license and can't pull the assets in the same way as gmod. So the TFs2 team had to copy paste the assets which does infringe on copyright.
TFs2 was dead anyway. An update to Sandbox meant most of the code developed up to that point just didn't work and the team beind TFs2 haddent worked on the project since September 2023.
does anyone have any idea what the "unspeakable project" is? any hints? I've never heard of this situation
i want to know too
im decently sure its TFVR which was sadly shut down a couple hours ago because of fear of an dmca takedown
What is the community project
I'd like to know, too. Came to the comments hoping somebody could tell me.
.
Quoting someone more knowledgeable than me, ToothpasteVixen, TF2S2 being DMCAd isn't valve going back on their stances on modding at all. TF2S2 isn't comparable to mods. It's a total remake of an existing commercial product on another engine that redistributes the assets and maps from the original TF2. The gmod addon comparison people make leaves out a pretty big detail: gmod has an asset mounting system that relies on players having other source games installed to be able to use those assets. If someone was to upload an addon to the gmod workshop that was all of the CS:S textures, it'd be removed, which is why such addons are always distributed through other means.
Yeah, Valve is basically dying and loseing the thing that made it great to begin with. The decline starts
The only news that could be more depressing than this is: _"Valve is going public"_
The generative AI being allowed if they can prove they own the copy right is likely due to The Finals, Ubisoft and Nvidia. They would need to ban the Finals since one of the VAs had their voice put through AI with royalities for the game.
I dont like their stance on AI however, id rather the game industry didnt try and force terrible systems into every game.
I think the stance on AI is sensible. It means Valve has the right to take things off the store if they can find evidence that the AI used was trained on unauthorised material, which creates incentive to actually use authorised material for training models and as such a potential market for that. To me it sounds like they're leading AI in the right direction by doing this, even if it will be difficult to prove anything.
@@Newbytealso if/when AI copyright infringement gets legally banned and enforced they wont have to hastily nuke all the content people made using stolen material if they nip in the bud now
It's been 2 months and nothing else has happened. Valve hasn't suddenly changed their stance on fan games and this was no difference to how Valve usually does things. You see, Valve has always been stingy when it comes to standalone games using their properties and with Source, you had to get the engine licensed out before you could make a standalone game on the engine. Source 2 hasn't been released yet and TF2S2 wasn't a mod but a full port of TF2 to S2 on an engine that the developers didn't have the legal rights to. It makes perfect sense that Valve would DMCA the project. People were simply overacting to this and believed that Valve was turning into Nintendo when that obviously wasn't the case. Valve is still Valve and they are still open to allowing fan games on their platforms.
GOG never looked so good before...
This is why I hate Copyright laws so much, shame to see Valve now going down the duck their community route
Even if copyright laws were fair, these projects would have still been taken down
Both were using assets from other companies and were not given permission
Like TF2 S2 using TF2 assets
And portal 64 using Nintendo owned libraries
Dont use another companies assets without permission, probably the most fair rules in terms of copyright law
And thats ignoring the fact that TF2 S2 was essentially an exact copy of TF2 as a standalone project, something Valve doesn’t even do (allow separate standalone projects with existing IP without any direct contact)
Really was just a matter of when this would be looked at
To be fair... TF2S2 should not exist without Valve's actual involvement as it's not even the mod in terms of art value. We are talking about corporations, not your loud neighbours or something... As someone said in another comment section: "Black Mesa basically remade every single HL thing from the ground up, TF2S2 was just porting things". Think about it twice or even thrice.
Not to mention how Black mesa changes large parts of the game such as zen and weapon balance to the point of being more of its own game.
maybe we’re getting a team fortress on source 2? i mean, someone makes csgo on s&box and it gets taken down, then cs2 is revealed and released for source 2…could be coincidence, but they might’ve only done it because they plan a team fortress 2 source 2 port
This would be my guess
keep coping
I don't get why people don't want valve to make money, apparently remaking a still active game that makes money should be allowed to exist, you can't just copy a game, offer it as the original but better and not expect valve to not want that, they aren't offering anything different, they're just offering a potentially better game that valve can't profit off of
a good comparison for modern valve versus old valve is like the ship of theseus. overtime it gets replaced piece by piece and every matieral gets replaced and at one point you have to realize, is it even the same valve that we used to love
If Valve is going to do legal stuff now, they by god I hope they take legal action against the cheat/bot makers.
They can’t stop it, but they can slow it down enough to make it much more tolerable.
Why stop something that makes you money?
how do bots make valve money? nobody could enjoy the new smismass update because of bots , the only map i managed to play consistently was krampus.@@x3n93
Dota, team fortress, counter strike, portal, and even left 4 dead were technically mods of existing games. This is just weird.
I think Portal was rised up from Narbacular Drop - videogame that was created by Digipen Studios (many responsible of whom, valve actually hired for making Portal). Same thing happened with Portal 2 - same digipen studio, but it was inspired by yet another game called Tag: Power of paint. Though you were right about other Valve games. Team Fortress was a mod for quake I. Counter strike derivatived from Quake 1 navy seals and action quake 2. L4D was a mod for CS CZ. Alien swarm was a mod for unreal tournament 2004. Same thing with dota 2, dota underlords and day of defeat. Even early builds of half-life 1 was build solely upon quake engine, acting like it was mod for quake. Makes no sense to me about valve taking down their fan projects (with exeption of portal64, since it just seems that valve doesn't want to mess with nintendo, which is funny, cause some people mentioned that big N, doesn't care about N64 fan projects anymore)
P.S. But yeah you actually can somewhat call portal as half-life 2 mod, haha
@@siickfox4411 yeah
Well first of all they had permission to use those game engines, and second, they didn't just port a full game to another engine without permission
And remember, these were public domain things that were simply copyrighted by "Valve incorporated".
Valve has fallen
Billions must cry
So, how long will it take until the inevitable angry mob finally gets formed and spreads anger towards Valve?
I give it 48 hours, tops.
@@Dr_Martexi give it right now
sadge is that it doesnt matter, even if people mass complain and valve (by some chance trough their arrogance) aknowledges it, nothing happens regrdless.
there is no victory here, only desolation and ruins by the time we can say this is history.
That's just every day in twitter
Is there anything we can really do to push back against these changes?
aside from making all original assets and renaming the project so that it's no longer using valve's intellectual property (would be a lot of assets) prolly not
It's a rude awakening for folks who don't realize that Valve isn't the same company they were 10 years ago. The CSGO market and competitive scene corrupted them in my opinion. They generally go where the money is. Selling others games, the VR fad. At the end of the day, a corporation's main goal is to maximize their profits.
Dear God, 2024: The rise of Valvetendo. I'm genuinely troubled by what is happening now that they are using a legal iron fist approach to anything community related. I worry not only the people who make the projects, but also content creators such as RUclipsrs as Tyler mentioned who can be struck at a moment's notice.
I've been using Steam since April of 2004. I grew up with Valve's golden years, and in the long run I slowly witnessed the transformation to corporate greed to the point of no return. Man do I miss the simpler times.
Side Note: Btw the complete absence of any music in the video is very eerie and depressing. I don't mean that as criticism as I think it's actually very fitting when you made the video. This is the most depressing thing to happen with Valve ever.
It's so Joever.
They were an anomaly anyway. Makes sense that it wouldn't last. Just keep those good memories.
Bro trying to act like valve is evil cus it took down what was basically tf2 stolen and put on a dif engine
@@Beutepanzer and also them taking down portal n64 which ran on an unlicensed SDK
Imagine writing this entire wall of text in response to VLAVE taking down a barely functioning copy-paste of tf2 into s&box that the devs themselves basically canned before VALVE did anything
@@Beutepanzer"nooo you don't get it!! Big company bad!"
boy my passion for gaming sure has been wavering these past however many years
if only things weren't bad so much more often than good
Nah. These guys are so lazy it's pathetic. Using existing assets and IP to make a game? Such a waste of talent. I mean if they have this much time and work ethic in them, they can create their own assets instead of using existing ones that are copyright protected and make their own game.
Game companies try not to make the worst decisions challenge (impossible)
infuriating that they do this while tf2 is literally unplayable, the bots have never been this bad and i've been playing pretty regularly since the bot crisis. was completely unable to play the christmas update. i'm so disappointed in valve, but of course they have enough money to buy god six times over so they're going to blindly charge forward doing whatever they want and nobody can stop them
its not unplayable dude just play community, community is starting to branch out like in the past before meet your match with different game modes so its not just 2fort, dustbowl, and high tower
@@dirtysniper3434yeah good luck voting for Krampus map on Uncletopia, you'll play upward and badwater for the rest of your life
"waaaah just press magical button to fix all problems"
Black Mesa was probably the last example of the old Valve. What happened to you Valve? Why are you becoming Nintendo?
Other examples?
@@thewiseowl8804 I can't think of any
@@SectorCTestLabs I mean, the community RTX Half Life 2 thing is in full swing and kicking
@@coffeenair For now
or ea
no, valve isnt changing.
i love how you purposefully skipped crucial information about the TF2S take down, no it wasn't because valve rejected garry proposal, they rejected it because garry newman himself in the s&box server stake he doesn't want to pay the 10% of cut for using valve ips in its ecosystem, garry its againts of source 1 assets being ported, and this technicaly violated Steam Subscription Agreement
Please rework this into something more coherent
@@SmittyWerbenJag3rmanJenson
Valve didn't reject Garry's proposal, it was rejected because Garry doesn't want to pay 10% of the cut for using Valve's IP on Steam (presumably, little bit hard to disseminate the info here), something something it's against Steam's sub agreement with Source 1 assets being ported?
So the community group project heads didn't check to see if what they were doing was legally acceptable and got nailed for it.
I hate to say it but this really doesn't seem like a "valve has changed and gaming is dead reeee" kind of scenario. Valve allows all forms of community projects and uses of IPs so long people actually follow the rules of keeping it in Source. Of course you're going to get in trouble if you make something like a Unity game using Valve's assets without their permission.
1:03 was basically just: Meat detected.
Until someone sues a company that falsely uses copywrite strikes into the ground, they'll keep abusing it forever. And RUclips needs to be sued for complacency in the crime.
The thing is, porting a full game to another engine that is not even owned by the original owner is a massive abuse of ip, this is not a false copyright it's just that valve does not care about this stuff normally
They didn't even misuse the copyright system. Do your research instead of trusting a random guy with a mic.
Average Tyler mcvicker viewer intelligence:
Valve has been dead for ages at this point, they're just showing their contempt freely now. They showed their greed when the worked with Bethesda in order to charge for mods. They showed their cluelessness when they """proudly""" unveiled their newest game in almost half a decade in Artifact. They showed their sheer laziness when they were forced by the internet to churn out a half assed content patch for TF2, one that didn't even include major fixes _being brought forward by the fans themselves_.
This is why I f*cking hated how spineless the #SaveTF2 movement was, with people begging on their knees for Valve to fix their iconic, genre defining, incredibly popular and culturally domineering game Team Fortress 2, a game which they have the gall to still be monetizing but not having the respect to at least let it be playable, with how the Bots are still infesting the game.
As a life long fan of Nintendo's games, let me make one thing absolutely clear: Companies are *NOT* your friends. They will string you along when they need you and toss you away when they're in the green.
*Fuck. Valve.*
PS: And to make it clear, I don't blame the developers at all. Many of them must feel like living the dream to work at Valve, the company from their childhoods. I blame upper management, who constantly want to pretend that their billion dollar company is still a mom & pop shop, some sort of underdog. Gabe Newell is in the Forbes 400, for pete's sake (bottom 200, but the point still stands).
im in disbelief, this seems more in line with nintendo not valve. its as if the have forgotten all the mods that made their company what it is.
All companies become greedy no exception
Absolute power corrupts always.
No, some companies care about their fans feelings too.
love how they dmca'd tf2 s2 but not the cathook and other tf2 code leaks
Meanwhile, Portal Revolution is up on Steam unscatched.
That thing and more makes Valve complete hypocrites in this.
@@Techhunter_Talon Portal revolution went through the proper process to get on steam not that they needed to mods existed off steam unscathed. You just aren't paying attention and whining that your fun taken away. Tf2s2 is just them ripping tf2s assets and putting them in a new engine and wasn't much better anyways. Portal 64 is sad to see gone but hopefully the n64 library issue can be resolved and it brought back. Because honestly how many people will be playing it on a real n64 anyways.
Portalr evolution is a mod for Portal 2, they didn't rip all of Portal 2 and then redistribute it in a seperate engine.
All of these projects are attempting to directly compete with Valve's products.
Gmod does include hl2's assets but doesn't not include its maps. Thus, not making it a replacement until you purchase hl2 and install it. That doesn't work with TF2 and CSGO because they replace live services. You cant port the live service parts of a game without 1. Leaving it out, leaving Valve out of money. 2. Making your own, leaving Valve out of the control and money. 3. Convincing Value to allow you to interface with their systems. Creating a bunch of dev time on Valves part. 4. Getting bought by Valve to develop it officially, but I believe I have heard you say Valve hires talent not projects. Valve is one of the few companies that might ever even think of considering any of these propositions.
The Ai thing wont be a mess, It will work the same way normal copyright disputes work. Its just some paperwork to help prove Valve is not liable in a court of law when disputes happen. You almost seem to use this policy change as some sort of proof they are clamping down on freedom. But, with the current unknown status of Ai in copyright law, this is the most freedom Valve can give with out opening themselves up liability.
Don't defend Valve, they are completely in the wrong. They have made billions off these live services and will continue to do so regardless of any fan projects. Nothing is getting "replaced" (other than CS:GO, which Valve themselves "replaced")
Banning copyright violating AI is probably just a savvy legal move. Valve is banking on AI-based copyright violation being enforced in the near future and want to minimise the fallout when it inevitably happens.
Honestly i see a bit of a pattern here: The games taken down are just ports of official valve titles to different engines. No modification to the gameplay aspect (as far as I can tell, please correct me if i'm wrong) was made on these games. And I think that's the crucial aspect here that we're missing. Something like TF2C or OpenFortress haven't been taken down because they're transformative works: they make modifications off the base material in a new and interesting way. I feel that Valve is encouraging modding on their games, but discourage straight ports to other engines just to port it. They -are- allowing modding, but to a certain extent.
Except they were given legal notice to stop, the same as what this video talks about as far as I know. The only difference is after trying to communicate further and not getting a response they just cautiously ignored valve and kept providing updates and downloads.
Valve only cares about tf2 when other people care about it
Why do you say S&Box is the spiritual successor to Gmod if Gary himself said that it is not the case?
Im assuming the video he didn't want to mention was about tfvr
i love how the tf2 source 2 port looked. i just hope they can come to an agreement with valve like they did with tf2c or something
Thing is, there was no agreement with valve and tf2c. Valve just straight up didnt do anything after the notice and the tf2c team just continued working on the mod
So Valve is transitioning from true neutral to lawful neutral. And depending on how this legal communicates with the financial team, possibly lawful evil. Furk, I'm done with this timeline.
IF this really goes bad I am going to GoG for all future purchases.
I've been meaning to do so for a while. I think this is my push for that.
Lack of 3's "Sequels" is a big service problem. As is lack of ports to modern proper engines. I love TF2, but the game runs like garbage.
It's sad that all Valve's motivation seem to be based on money. Because as soon as they achieved the holy grail "unlimited money" they lost all motivation to make games. It's tragic.
Kinda wild Valve's new legal team is now on some sort of mod genocide since:
Team Fortress was originally a mod of Quake.
Gary's Mod was originally a mod of Half Life 2.
Counter Strike was originally a mod of Half Life 1.
Black Mesa is a full on remake of Half Life 1 on Steam (Valve didn't take it down)
I don't really see a problem with valve taking down TF2 S2. It makes total sense and ANY sensible company would do the same. The Portal 64 takedown is dumb but that's consistent with Shitendo.
Valve then: hiring their fans to work with them and create the most successful half-life fan remake project (Black Mesa)
Valve now: taking down fan project (TF2 Source 2 and Portal 64)
portal 64 is a bit understandable cause nintendo is hostile towards fan games like AI bros hostile towards artists
if they have a new legal team then thats really bad
s&box is not garry's mod you can't use TF2 assets in it, even if it is on a version of the source engine...... this is like trying to use TF2 assets in playstation dreams or literally any other legit game engine...... garry's mod was a special case where those assets were available
Shocker. It's almost as if modders don't have legal rights to companies' trademarked IPs. These morons were creating an illegal competitor to TF2 and yet they screech about how unfair it is that the IP holder defends their copyright and trademark. I'm sure the modders were sad to lose years of work, but that's the risk you run at any given time when taking someone else's game and publicly distributing modified imitations of the original product. Valve has historically been friendly to mods in general, but that doesn't mean modders have free reign over whatever they want whenever they please.
I’m hoping they took down the TFS2 because TF2 is because they’re porting it. 1 in a million though. For Portal, welp. :(
Valve is doing this while the bot crisis in TF2 has never been worse AND the item servers have been down for two days
Bruh
How the mighty have fallen
Seriously, can't find a single game that isn't full of bots. It really is the worst I've ever seen it.
Valve is really taking on the spirit during the economy and capitalism fest...
the thing about tf2:s2 being taken down is it used tf2 assets without a license to use it. its different than gmod because gmod mounts an existing installation, and doesnt rip the assets from tf2 and ship with it. and the portal 64 takedown wasnt a takedown. valve suggested that the creator take it down so they dont get sued by nintendo for using copyrighted code.