Will There Be More Than 21 Million Bitcoin?
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- Опубликовано: 6 июн 2024
- In this Bitcoin Q&A, Andreas talks about whether or not there will be more than 21 million bitcoin and how the code prevents that from happening.
Chapters
0:00 Will there be more than 21 million bitcoin?
1:32 The 21 million cap is not defined in the code
2:15 Progressive reduction in issuance of bitcoin
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This is the best explanation I heard on the limit factor of Bitcoin. Simple and to the point! WOW.
Man you always do this, your speech is unique and so informative.
Thank you
This is the kind of awesome info I never find anywhere else. thanks so much
The existing Visa credit card network processes about 15 million Internet purchases per day worldwide. Bitcoin can already scale much larger than that with existing hardware for a fraction of the cost. It never really hits a scale ceiling.
How about that as a definition of what Bitcoin is? Seems like BTC changed already compared to Santoshi's vision?
Awesome video, never thought of this but its actually really clever! Would love a video of a deepdive into the bitcoin code repository, maybe 10-20 min total. Just an idea, lot of devs never looked into the code I assume.
BSV is true Bitcoin model. Turing complete and set in stone.
Great content as usual. Much appreciated!
Wow, thank you Andreas! Great explanation; best one I've heard!
Andreas the legend. I've been listening to you since 2012.
Thanks for this, Andreas. Highly appreciated.
Let's get it👍 dollar cost average Bitcoin, wishing you all massive gains🤗
Awesome video and great explination.
Such a great vulgarisation. Thank you master.
I guess getting to 21 million btc is like trying to reach the speed of light, you never quite get there etc
Andreas, I love you so much man! I would love if you did a talk with Anthony Pompliano, Michael Saylor, Jack Dorsey and Max Keiser on Bitcoin. The additional interviews of the future of BTC with your knowledge and everyone else's, is some of the most value content humans will ever receive
What a perfect talk inside the bubble. Only speak and hear those you already agree with.
@@gansheit well I'm not touching Shiba or namecoin again. Eth and xmr pretty kool 😎
Great explaination. Thanks
great video bro
The 21 million hard cap is a very unique trait that Bitcoin pioneered.
There. Is. No. Cap.
It just slows its inflation rate exponentially. It's infinitely divisible. They can do this forever.
very great analogy!
Absolutely. Well answered.
Whenever there is a rule change that would require everyone to update (hard fork), if you can imagine no one caring about the old Bitcoin, then and only then might the new rules be considered Bitcoin while the old one falls aside.
Bitcoin cash is the prime example of an attempt to change the system that failed.
Thank you
best guy forlearning inbitcoin space🎉
I liked this short videos with explanation
You need to talk about fee structure. If there is no bitcoin created anymore... Is the fee enough to make miners hold up the security? What if most people in 100 years use 2nd or 3rd layer instead of on chain so not much is going on the actual bitcoin Blockchain?
Let's worry about the next 10 to 20 years first. That's like being worried how the internet will work in 100 years
@@stock7628 yep, I’ll be dead before I’ll have to worry about on-chain activity.
The layers are on the blockchain
Well done for pointing out why the layered bitcoin breaks the whole point of bitcoin.
@@cormactaylor9539 no, they don't. The layers are built on top of bitcoin's blockchain. They don't bypass it in any way lol.
Miners will be sustained through tx fees because the satoshis will be worth a lot more and more people will be transacting. Very simple.
People who make this argument are just showcasing their misunderstanding and lack of depth of thought.
It’s 20,999,999 BTC max by the way. Good topic Anton! Thanks
THANK YOU! Finally, a sane person in this dumb comment section. New bitcoin/sats will be issued exponentially. It's inflation rate merely *slows.*
At around 21 million, it will still issue sats, at an ever diminishing rate.
At that point the value of sats will be high enough to compensate the miners. At that point, technology would've made costs cheaper, allowing them to secure the network more efficiently.
There's no worry!
Concern isn’t with the code, it’s human nature. We could be lazy enough to start using paper bitcoin, akin to paper gold.
Excellent
Hi is it possible to find unconfirmed BTC transaction ? the only info I have is my BTC address , one of the received transactions disappeared and now I can't find it.
Hi
Thanks
Thanks Genius!
So there will always be an infinitesimal amount of btc issued for every new block?
@aantronop at t=68 you say "21 million dollar cap" … maybe fix that if possible.
Is this a re-upload?
So, it's about "around what number it's going to be pointless to be keeping issuing more BTC after all the halvings" more than "¿how many BTC are we issuing then?"
I'm not sure what will win. "Original" vision without inflation but with very high fee and less minners. Or "Evolution" vision with low inflation (like 1%/year) but with cheaper fees and more minners.
monero starts its tail emission around may this year, if i recall correctly. that's an interesting alternative, but also not overly problematic, bc from system point of view a tail emission model means that, by design(!), sooner or later (probably rather later ;) an equilibrium between lost coins and newly emitted coins will be reached on the long run, for limes t-->infinity.
I love worrying about things that will have to be dealt with 100 plus years from now when I'm long gone. The technology that will exist in the future will most likely make this problem a moot point. Cheers!
It's not at all a moot point or a problem for 100+ years' time. Bitcoin issuance will be 94% less than today’s in 4 halvings’ time, and over 99% less in 7. Every halvening is a new test of whether or not bitcoin can maintain security on an unprecedentedly small security budget, and daily total fees of $300k is orders of magnitude too low to cover the cost of mining.
This is why Andreas is softening the community up to the idea of PoS, a technology that the bitcoin community has ridiculed and called a scam for several years.
@@Alex-nf5jy you're merely looking at things numerically. At that point the amount of Satoshis being issued will be of higher price. The miners will get value. There's no worry
So changing the 21 Million cap means it's not Bitcoin anymore but changing from PoW to PoS doesn't mean it's not Bitcoin anymore? What is the criteria for changes that keep the Bitcoin brand and changes that don't...?
well...in 2010 it happened, an attacker almost made 16B of bitcoin. Si technically it can happen.
Which would be worse:
a) going to POS, but retaining the 21M cap; or
b) allowing for a "tail emission"... like monero has... but retaining the POW protocol...?
Between the two, I'd much prefer a "tail emission"; that way, the decentralized nature of bitcoin would be retained. If bitcoin goes to POS, it'll become too centralized.... too easy for governments to take it down.
One question regarding this: wouldn't it be possible to change the division of Bitcoin? Let's say 1 Satoshi will become dividable by 1000 on the Bitcoin Blockchain which makes the amount of bitcoins thousand fold. And when you can divide a thing indefinitely, it basically becomes unlimited in issued... Value. Would the answer be the same: fork??
Increasing divisibility does not increase supply. As an example, if you have 21 pizzas, but instead of cutting each of them into 8 slices, you cut them into 10 slices each, you still have 21 pizzas. The total supply didn't change.
@@SAL-fs1mr you don't understand the point.
New bitcoin/sats will be issued exponentially. It's inflation rate merely *slows.*
At around 21 million, it'll still issue sats, at an ever diminishing rate. At that point the value of sats will be high enough to compensate the miners. At that point technology would've made costs cheaper, allowing them to secure the network more efficiently.
There's no worry!
cool
Hello, I think I haven't seen this question before. Can you use your private Keyes to access your Bitcoin from any Bitcoin wallet?
Pretty much, yes.
It cannot be changed
It seems very arbitrary to impose a max to the total number of coins created, because in an healthy economy the total quantity of money in circulation should equate the total value of the goods and services that are offered by people, otherwise the money in circulation would not reflect the actual value of those goods and services.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with having a finite supply. Prices would start going down instead of up as they do today.
It's a long way to mine all the 21 million coins. When we reach there then we can decide.
It depends on the next inflation bug.
There will be tail emissions down the road, that's for sure.
I think what ethereum is trying to achieve is more adequate: elastic supply
I don't understand... you say if the 21m cap gets changed then there would likely be a fork and the one that still has the cap is bitcoin and the fork would be considered a shitcoin. Then you say they could change from PoW to PoS... How would that be any different than the former fork/shitcoin scenario?
Changing from pow to pos doesn't change the supply that's why it's different
There. Is. No. Cap.
How to get into the venom testnet please help its a gem i dont wanna miss out
hm, andrea's voice sounds so different compared to 5 years ago. What happened? Did I miss something
Time will tell how Bitcoin ecosystem evolves and if an inflation fork will be necessary. It depends on how widely it will be used and how often through 2nd layers. If we can keep growing the market size, there may be another decade or two without having to address the issue.
One thing that may bite back is how much analysts talk about the hashrate. It would be fine even it doesn't grow more or even decline a bit. We can have a growing market regardless.
i am more worried about paper bitcoin, etf or derivatives that SAY they represent a bitcoin, but are not backed by one , or they claim it is but you have to trust someone or an auditor to verify it. Like they did with gold. There are plenty of those fake 'voucher', enough to move the market and challenge the scarcity. it's not because you or I will refuse to buy them that they don't exist and that they have a value on the market. until those things are illegal and illiquid, i think it's a threat to the scarcity feature.
Yes 👍 I agree ☝️
There's automated ious. You have to trust any third party. These ious can merely have different traits.
What about all the lost coins, could there be replaced?
NO
Someone please enlighten me!!!!
How is 21 Million Bitcoin enough for the whole world? If rich people keep buying and HODLing most of it specially the one who got in the beginning how is it fair for the late people trying to get in at such a high price?
How does this fix the current system? How is it any different? How will this fix the world poverty? I have yet to find an answer that makes sense… anyone can help understand please?
I understand it's centralized and it's not controlled by the government but now it's controlled by greedy people so what's the difference?
Yo estoy sumamente preocupado porque en el año 2140 ya no se podrán minar más bitcoines.
I think you’re evading the point. Sure there’s no if statement with a limit but who cares. The point is that if things stop going well the devs can simply stop “pressing on the breaks” as you say. I can imagine there being a fork as well but everything you predicted is merely speculation. Bitcoin Cash supporters also claimed that their coin was the real bitcoin.
Obviously, there won't be more than the amount but it's best to take your share now.
just buy and HODL. keeping my coins on atomic wallet.
10 sats every 10 min is 1 btc every 190 years
He doesn't deny that bitcoin security model is broken.
Sha256 is still robust and no one has ever found a backdoor into the algorithm, bitcoins security is fine. Unless you’re talking about privacy.
so technically/ theoretically/ mathematically at some point in the future, there will be more then 21mio coins…
No. 12.5 btc every ten min then in 3 years 6.25 btc then 3.145 in 4 years every 4 years cut in half and that number once it reaches 0 will equal little less than 21 million
Unless you are counting shit coins ..there already are tons of shit coins but that isn't bitcoin
@@stock7628 it never reaches zero. Complete myth. New bitcoin/sats will be issued exponentially. It's inflation rate merely *slows.*
At around 21 million, it'll issue sats at an ever diminishing rate. At that point the value of sats will be high enough to compensate the miners. At that point, technology would've made costs cheaper, allowing them to secure the network more efficiently.
There's no worry!
@@generalsalami8875 oh wow did not know that
If the choice was up to me, I would much rather abandon the 21 million Bitcoin cap than move away from proof-of-work to something less secure like proof-of-stake.
If there is a consensus among the Bitcoin nodes, *any* change to the protocol is possible. If there is a consensus among Bitcoin users that a certain change is in the ecosystem's best interest, there isn't any part of the protocol that is off limits in theory. The difference between Bitcoin and alt-coins is that there isn't a central group that can force change.
There is no 21 million cap. That's a myth. It just slows down so much to the point were we won't see it pass 21 million ever.
@@generalsalami8875 There is a 21 million cap. At a certain point mining rewards round down to zero and new issuance permanently halts.
@@frenchmarty7446 no. False. Sats will continue to be issued. When that get too low, it can be divided up further, etc. It can do this exponentially. New currency units can continue to be issued while still not passing 21 million, as it's *infinitely divisible.*
By that point, the value of a sat will be enough to compensate the miners & technology would've lowered costs.
@@generalsalami8875 From the Bitcoin whitepaper:
"Once a predetermined number of coins have entered circulation, the incentive can transition entirely to transaction fees and be completely inflation free."
Funny how few people have actually read it...
@@generalsalami8875 Bitcoin is not "infinitely divisible." That is bullshit.
The number of possible decile places is set by code. As of now, one Satoshi is the smallest possible unit. That could be changed (at the cost of transaction size and possibly a hard fork), but it's not and never will be "infinite."
there will always be an altcoin worth more than bitcoin. why because their will be scam
Wondering how moving to pos will solve anything since only the transaction fees can’t provide enough security budget?
Btc will never been pos
There will never be "only transaction fees." That's a myth. New bitcoin/sats will be issued exponentially. It's inflation rate merely *slows.*
At around 21 million, it'll issue sats at an ever diminishing rate. At that point the value of sats will be high enough to compensate the miners. At that point, technology would've made costs cheaper, allowing them to secure the network more efficiently.
There's no worry!
But could deflationary money actually work long term especially considering so many bitcoins have been lost along the way? Even now, more people are using bitcoin as a store of value rather than 'money', and that will only get worse with time as value grows. What if bitcoin changes to slightly inflationary model once the block rewards drop too low e.g. from the year 2050, 1 BTC/day added to total mineable supply.
Since that is a hardfork change, it will be a new coin. Maybe it will be called bitcoincash2.
Saving is good. It frees up land, labor, & capital to be used by demanded ventures through sound lending. You deter consumption today for future production, & thereby more consumption.
This stupid idea that nobody would spend has no evidence or logic behind it. People need to spend on necessities. Would you not buy a new game just because it's price will go down in the future? What's the point of money if you never spend it? Each person is at a different point in their lives. The old want to spend the savings they've accumulated over the years, while the youth are encouraged to save.
There's still a continuous circular flow of the currency. Necessities are prioritized. The elderly who've worked & saved their whole lives have more resources allocated to them.
*This is good.*
Let's say (for the sake of argument) that nobody ever spent, what do you think that does? It hurts businesses, creates shortages, & they're forced to raise prices to have any chance of surviving. This encourages people to spend.
Even in the most extreme unrealistic scenario it's self correcting.
Inflation only misallocates land, labor, & capital, as it distorts price signals & heightens our time preference.
@@generalsalami8875 BTC's deflationary nature is not a feature, it's a bug. Comparing a video game to BTC is moronic. Nobody irl actually uses BTC for day 2 day, even tech like lightning hasn't changed that. On-chain idiots proudly claim that "BTC's majority supply hasn't moved in X days!!"; WTF that is nothing to be proud of. Those of us who have been in the crypto industry for a long time know that it is a failed project according to the original idea and its only usecase atm is hoarding for future price appreciation. FFS, it even moves pip-by-pip with the stock market now. All of this makes it a collectible, NOT a currency. BTC is extremely deflationary with hard supply cap, reducing mining rewards, & tons of lost/destroyed coins, and deflationary money has no history of working within human history, even Gold is slightly inflationary and that has stood the test of time as the longest reigning Store of value/means of exchange. Maxis are in denial with BTC and constantly begging institutions to bring the price up & buy their bags off of them. This can easily be seen in dominance chart of BTC, it has been in a constant decline for years and will continue to decline. Dumbass Maxis who treat Satoshi's word like the word of god are about to get a hard painful lesson in coming years on not adapting with the times. Satoshi was human, and humans make mistakes. The 21m hard supply cap was a mistake.
@Hamza Again, idc if they're spending it. Since you're illiterate & didn't address a single argument I made, I'll repeat myself. *Saving is good.* It frees up land, labor, & capital to be used by demanded ventures through sound lending. You deter consumption today for future production, & thereby more consumption.
This stupid idea that nobody would spend has no evidence or logic behind it. People need to spend on necessities. Would you not buy a new game just because it's price will go down in the future? What's the point of money if you never spend it? Each person is at a different point in their lives. The old want to spend the savings they've accumulated over the years, while the youth are encouraged to save.
There's still a continuous circular flow of the currency given time. Necessities are prioritized. The elderly who've worked & saved their whole lives have more resources allocated to them.
*This is good.*
Let's say (for the sake of argument) that nobody ever spent, what do you think that does? It hurts businesses, creates shortages, & they're forced to raise prices to have any chance of surviving. This encourages people to spend.
Even in the most extreme unrealistic scenario it's self correcting.
Gold was deflationary. The amount lost exceeded the small amount mined. One look at the industrial revolution shows this. We had constant deflation & growth.
*There is no hard cap.* New bitcoin/sats will be issued exponentially. It's inflation rate merely *slows.*
At around 21 million, it'll issue sats at an ever diminishing rate, without ever passing 21 million. At that point the value of sats will be high enough to compensate the miners. After ever hav At that point, technology would've innovated & made costs cheaper, allowing them to secure the network more efficiently.
Bitcoin won the block size wars.
Exchange rates are relative. You could look at it as if fiat is volatile compared to crypto. The one difference is that crypto will appreciate at some point, to some degree, for some time, & is never going anywhere. Fiat will always depreciate & its existence is based on pure arbitration.
Not to mention it's inherently worse for business. Inflation's very nature is, & it's susceptible to the terrible edicts of the state. It leads to a misallocation of resources & distorts our time preference.
As fiat's rules change throughout time at the arbitrary whims of corrupt bureaucrats, you'll see more allocation towards crypto. Eventually there'll be a flip period of adoption as more goods & services accept it as payment. Countries & cities are already adopting it. Those you trade with would rather aquire a long-term appreciating asset than one sure to deteriorate. As people break out of the fiat debt trap cycle, more will be able to accept it.
As of now average people can only afford to hold a little. It's pretty illiquid because of its volatility, which makes servicing fiat debt difficult (of which there's plenty).
Proof of work and 21 million are the backbone of what makes Bitcoin revolutionary and the best money ever created by humans. Neither can be changed.
It's freaky it sort off mimics gold but this has a cap. Wierdy scary shit.
If Bitcoin would ever change to PoS, that would also create a fork and we would call the PoS coin a sh!tcoin. The Bitcoin main chain will stay PoW forever.
I disagree with the esteemed Mr Antonopoulos on this one. I know my opinion is in the minority.
It is my belief that once BTC's inflation rate gets below 1% and especially below 0.5% (about 2-to-3 halvings from now) there will be a big legit push for a by-consensus hardfork to change this supposedly sacred 21 million number. I imagine it will likely instead be to a constant inflation rate, such as 0.5% per annum. There will be an inflection point at which the mining incentive will increasingly be too low to adequately support the security of the BTC network. Transaction fees won't be enough. Transactions are moving to second layer solutions and there is a finite scope of 1st layer transactions that the protocol can handle.
Maybe that new coin will be called bitcoincash2.
@@SAL-fs1mr Nice! If it's a by-consensus hardfork, it will plainly be called bitcoin and by definition be bitcoin with the "btc" symbol.
Let’s be real. If the US is going to build a Digital Coin, what blockchain will they us??? Bitcoin? No. Eth??? Lol, no. Ada??? Hahaha nope!!! Xrp?!?! You kidding me…
Digibyte!!! It’s a no brainer!!!
And I know most of you Bitcoin Max’s know this!!!
Bitcoin can halve infinitely. It's infinitely divisible. By that point its price would be so high that the value of the sats being issued would be higher!
There is no worry.
By who is determined this 21 mil? Who determined this number can change to more isn't it?
Did you really make a logo out of your hairline ?
This is already happening with Stacks. They create a new crypto linked to Bitcoin called Stacks!
Stacks is what Bitcoiners would call, a shitcoin
Then it has to be subsidized by tax money.
So it will go to zero in 30 years. Which means nobody will want your bitcoin in the future.
How, no identity involve
@@elidyson256 If you know sth will go to zero in the future you don't buy it today.
@@morteza1024 going zero is irrelevant as long miner still mine then bitcoin still worth bitcoin just like dollar worth dollar. Math is important, go study it.
There's probably be less Bitcoin.. and less and less and less 😅
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