@dejajade6726 completely forgot about that scene lol. What was even the point? They didn't use it as like a bad omen or anything. It just happens and then everyone forgets about it.
I am 17yo girl, and I don't want to keep seeing this story of "women victims of men's actions in situations where they are involved" or stories where they are softened... I WANT TO SEE women with interesting pasts that are linked to their actions, brave, evil, selfish, sadistic, narcissistic, who seek to achieve their goals whether good or bad and who have their own motivations (and I don't care if I like the character or not) but who also have mistakes and are guilty of many things causing death and pain. I want to see moments like Cersei torturing Ellaria Sand and Septa Unella, Margaery manipulating Joffrey/Tommen to become THE queen, Olenna Tyrell being THE GOAT or Catelyn Stark hating Jon Snow just for existing
PREACH 👏 GRRM knew how to make complex characters that happened to be female. Many of the new-day writers have female characters as flawless. Whenever they make bad decisions it's never their fault as they were in that position due to men.
girl, go tf off 👏🏽 thank you. they butchered rhaenyra and alicent. like they did them both so dirty. book alicent would never have given up her kids or abandoned them and in the show rhaenyra seems to barely care she lost Luke ? she looked mad one time then next season she just wasn’t mad anymore? we need to see her thirst for vengeance and her grief and even her madness. they just had her play pacifist all season and then she gets a little zealot-y and that’s it
May I please reccomend the Show Spartacus Blood and Sand? It has in my opinion the most underrated female villian in any medium in Lucretia who is played by the amazing Lucy Lawless Aka Xena Warrior Princess
George has referred to the "typical Targaryen princess" sometimes as one of his favorite character archetypes in his world: fiery, bold, strong-willed, ruthless and willing to burn anything that stands against her, or she thinks stands against her. Visenya, Rhaena, Rhaenys, Rhaenyra and Baela are all that type of character. This show we were supposed to get several of those characters, but they all got retconned because those character appear to be pRoBlEmAtIc now to the writers' sensibilities. Women are supposed to be patient, gentle, kind, wise and good, all of them.
Apparently, the supposedly Green-biased maesters forgot to mention that one of Rhaenyra's biggest supporters crashed Aegon II's coronation in the Dragonpit and callously slaughtered hundreds of innocent smallfolk in the process.
When confronted about this in an interview with the Hollywood Reporter Sarah Hess said and I quote: "It's Game of Thrones - Civilians don't count." WTF?!?
@@lordfreerealestate8302 you watched SavageBooks' deep dive too? 😂😂oh man that was illuminating, it was hard for me to understand why the hate was only directed at Sara Hess, but I got to see straight from the horses mouth - she has out there views colouring everything and yes men. That video was 110%, professional, factual, and objective; Sara Hess doesn't understand Fire and Blood and she replaces anything she doesn't get with her personal views antithetical to the source material. It's not opinion, she thinks every negative thing written about the female characters is "patriarchy" propaganda so she infuriatingly disregards canon with sheer confidence.
Their obsession with making sure the women never come off as bad completely killed her as a character. Instead of being a fully fleshed out character she's just a shadow of a character. Making her be drug into war by the evil men makes her look like a weak ruler, and her sneaking in to talk to the other queen about peace after her son was murdered makes no sense. I don't know of 1 mother who would lovingly talk to the person responsible for their child's death
I read GoT but not these books and I still thought Raenyra and Alicent are incredibly flawed characters in the show (somewhat as a cause of their circumstances, but not quite)
They did the same thing to Cersei and Ellaria both, trying to make them bad boss bitches and allowing them to run roughshod over other more plots that would have turned out far more interesting if they'd stuck to the material in the book (looking at you, Dorne). I know the showrunners are different but the issue is the same, and it's absolutely a societal/audience/show-runner problem Because we are also to blame. They rewrite these characters hoping to appeal to the audience watching it. Do you recall why Robb ended up falling in love with a field nurse instead of shotgun-wedding himself to a one-night stand? "Modern audiences won't understand and will have a different expectation for women! They won't understand marrying for honor, it has to be love!" Yes, and when stuff like that is rewritten to make modern audiences feel good they start to forget just how bad things were for women back then...and how 'at the whim of men' their lives actually were.
They do exist irl. There’s a small but existent pocket of people who have offered compassion and forgiveness to murderers and serial killers despite their loved ones being victims, among some of them mothers of victims. The issue isn’t that it’s wholly unrealistic on a general level, it’s that it’s completely inconsistent with RHAENYRA as a character, specifically.
@bluebay1031 that is true, but for them we don't already have a background written for, also she was willing to start a war and kill thousands because she lost her crown why would she take a softer stance after the 2 children. The people who forgive a murderer are not the same that will gladly kill for power.
They want to lure Daenerys' huge fan base to watch the show. It’s not about character development it’s all about viewership, likely a decision made by higher-ups at hbo max
@@ACinemafanatica crap ending because D&D whitewashed Dany too. Her transformation towards being a Mad Queen is what her entire arc was building up to, and it should have taken seasons to develop. But D&D were afraid of alienating her fanbase so they saved her villain turn for literally the last second of the series.
The problem is that Daenerys actually has character development and is treated as having flaws in the books, and even in the show up until the last few seasons. Daenerys and Jaime were my favorite characters in GoT, and I absolutely hated how they character assassinated all of them in the last seasons. They were my favorite precisely because of how flawed they were; they made mistakes and were at times cruel, but were not evil. Nothing about Rhaenyra is likeable, and she shares nothing in common with Daenerys. As someone else in the video comments mentioned: Daenerys had to struggle, survive, and earn her way to a position of power from the streets of the Free Cities with an absuive brother. Rhaenyra literally lived her entire life wealthy and priviledged up in the high castle that is the Red Keep; she was a s**t that never earned anything she got. In the books, she had much more in common with Cersei than Daenerys.
all the greens have is “it’s tradition and law for man rule” while completely ignoring that king makes lawso whatever viserys says goes. Greens say “tradition and law” to support Aegon but ignore that Jaehaerys not following “tradition and law” is what made Viserys the King in the first place and what gave Rhaenyra and Aegon their claims. Greens need to learn some common sense.
Rhaenyra is clearly much more like Cersei than Daenerys. Ruthless, unforgiving, doing anything for power, and her love for her children is her main redeeming factor. She even has the three baseborn children she passes off as real, brutally suppressing anyone calling it out, and eventually fighting a war over it.
Cersei's love for her children is based purely on narcissism, seeing them as extensions of herself. Rhaenyra (if we're talking about the books) is a bit vapid and spoiled, but her love for her children is far more genuine, so I don't think this comparison is entirely fair.
Cersei loves for her children is heavily influenced as she sees them as extensions of herself, not all but a BIG part of it, that is why she was so quickly to dismiss Jaime when he became his own person. Rhaenyra is all those things you said too but even if she is similar I do think they are very different overall as Rhaenyra has some interesting qualities like her relation with Laena, being the youngest dragon rider ever in known history and how genuine it seemed that people close to her love her.
And one of those baseborn sons is even named Joffrey. It’s pretty obvious who Martin was thinking of when he wrote Rhaenyra. She was Cersei before Cersei was Cersei.
It made me laugh when Rhaenys argues to the lords that Rhaenyra wears the crown of Jaehaerys I the Conciliator. The same Jaehaerys who refused to name her heir twice because she was a woman and who certainly would never have named Rhaenyra or her bastards. Not to mention that the crown was stolen, because the king who first wore it would never have given it to her, everything Rhaenys says is ridiculous or absurd.
Every scene with Rhaenys was painful to sit through. She's such a self-righteous twat, and the writers were clearly in love with her character despite writing her to be a mass murderer of innocents.
She says he is the longest reigning king as if it’s some achievement, bish he was the 4th king. Like… Maegor had 3 seconds. Jaha was not the one for her to name here. 😂
They tried so hard to make her into Daenerys and failed big time. Daenerys had to fight to survive and worked her way up. Rhaenyra got everything handed to her on a silver platter and she still managed to screw up.
Even Daenerys was a flawed character with valid aspects of criticism against her, not a clear-cut heroine. She was gray in some ways, like most GRRM characters.
@@vardiganxpl1698exactly in the books I feel she will achieve what rhanerya and her other ancestors failed to do since it’s because of the misogyny of the dance the dragons were pretty much destroyed and all because they didnt want a woman on the throne.
“Had everything handed to her” she was a woman living in misogynistic, feudal society. She really had to fight to be taken seriously as a woman in position of power
Really interesting how the writers read Fire and Blood and decided that actually Rhaenyra is a y/n self-insert character who is perfect and never does anything wrong and is loved by everyone, except for the clearly evil messed up other side of the family who unfairly stole the throne she had divine right to simply because of misogyny, and the many parts of the book that disagree with this interpretation are just propaganda created to smear Rhaenyra specifically.
Outing myself as a Tumblr user rn but omg this was literally my post! Wild to be reading the comment section of a video and then finding your own words already there 😂 anyway glad others feel the same way about this! They really fumbled Rhaenyra so hard. I wish we had complex gray Rhaenyra who wasn't afraid to take any action in her own story 😭
@@essenby123 books are written by green maesters. even in the show, yall hate rhaenyra even tho shes strong and kind and smarter (unlike aegon who lost after losing 1 kid while rhaenyra lost MOST of her sons and newborn visenya and did not fly off in rooks rest like an idiot). yall hate her jus bc shes a women. you d rather support aegon who treats aemond and helaena horribly and who has child fighting pits and even after what he did to dyana, yall would rather support him. u accuse rhaenyra for being bad? well look in the mirror team green, yall believe ur own lies its funny lmao
Well, Rhaenyra wasn't a "mad queen," per se. She was just an arrogant bitch who wanted the throne from the start and was willing to go to war for it out of her own ambition. She was never mad, just a shitty person from beginning to end.
I actually like the book version more, its complex. While Rhaenyra in the series looks at the best time completly delusional and at all other times like a complete moron.
There's a lot of inconsistency with her characterization that's for sure. The writers don't want her to be like her book counterpart, but they also don't know how they want to develop her as well. They now have to invent a character arc for her, but they just aren't as good as GRRM is at it, so now they're just flailing.
all the greens have is “it’s tradition and law for man rule” while completely ignoring that king makes lawso whatever viserys says goes. Greens say “tradition and law” to support Aegon but ignore that Jaehaerys not following “tradition and law” is what made Viserys the King in the first place and what gave Rhaenyra and Aegon their claims. Greens need to learn some common sense.
u didnt have a problem with show rhaenyra in season 1 so why do u suddenly say shes whitewashed in season 2? oh right bc u hate that most people support true queen rhaenyra. bet u that if ppl hated her in season 2, u would hv never made this video to hate on her. pathetic what people do for green rapist propaganda
books are written by green maesters. even in the show, yall hate rhaenyra even tho shes strong and kind and smarter (unlike aegon who lost after losing 1 kid while rhaenyra lost MOST of her sons and newborn visenya and did not fly off in rooks rest like an idiot). yall hate her jus bc shes a women. you d rather support aegon who treats aemond and helaena horribly and who has child fighting pits and even after what he did to dyana, yall would rather support him. u accuse rhaenyra for being bad? well look in the mirror team green, yall believe ur own lies its funny lmao
How Helaena will die in House of the dragon. Helaena gets news about jaehaera being sent to storms end to seek refuge with the Baratheons. She sighs then says “I feel as though i should be sad about not being able to see my daughter again” Alicent asks “what do you mean again??”. Helaena stares at alicent and says “I forgive you”. The following scene shows rhaenyra entering the room with helaena, she talks to her about the song of ice and fire and how daemon told her about how he saw you in his dreams. Helaena says “you know your part”. Rhaenyra cries after realizing that helaena was team black all along, she gives her sister a hug before walking out of the room. All alone, Helaena now stares out the window. She suddenly has a dream of the song of ice and fire. There she sees a white walker and dany, before we get a shot of bran. Bran tells Helaena to kill herself to save the Targaryen line. Helaena nods and says “i will, for you are the prince that was promised”. Then Halaena leaps out the window, the Hightower theme plays. She falls in slow motion as we cut in and out to unnecessary scenes of rhaenyra making out with queen consort mysaria. Halaena finally hits the ground and cries.
@@shadowgod1797 I mean yeah, but like, it never really amounted to anything in the final season of GoT, and Bran seemed more important than Jon ironically, so....yeah?
I have a friend who recently watched HotD and was very disappointed in the writing of the women. She watched Sopranos for the first time lately and mentioned the female characters on that show not being afraid to have obvious flaws but still come off as strong powerful women and likable like Carmela or Meadow. She couldn't help but compare because HotD dropped the ball so badly. Sarah Hess and several others are so afraid to give any of their female characters flaws that at this point, it's so obvious for everyone to see. Only braindead TikTok/twitter casuals like Rhaneyra being boring bossgirl.
Book Rhaenyra is trash and evil! If she was like that on the show then the show would have ended at season one because nobody wants to watch a show where everyone is evil and unlikeable
What also pissed me off is in the books Jace is a badass making a bunch of big moves to help turn the tide for his mom like sowing the dragon seeds and getting married to a snow girl in Winterfell (allegedly) so Cregan Stark will side with them, in the show they just made him whine and mope all season 2. Such a character assassination on one of my favourite tardgaryens. Also they skinny washed Rhaenyra, she is supposed to eat her pain away with each death of a child, I WANT FAT RHAENYRA AND I WANT HER NOW
@@StankeyWang Strong in show since they made it so obvious but he would be Waters bookwisebut he is not because he supposed Velaryon even tho everyone know he is not
u didnt have a problem with show rhaenyra in season 1 so why do u suddenly say shes whitewashed in season 2? oh right bc u hate that most people support true queen rhaenyra. bet u that if ppl hated her in season 2, u would hv never made this video to hate on her. pathetic what people do for green rapist propaganda
They whitewashed her so hard they even took some pounds off from her, for a bunch of people who claim representation to be such an important aspect of their work they sure seem to draw the line at obesity.. By the way I do believe there are flaws within the shows version of Rhaenyra however nowadays people have grown accustomed to ignored or even forgive this type of characters traits when outside sources tells them to do so like for example off the top of my head we got: Rhaenyra forcing herself on Criston Cole, looked at it anyway you'll like but she quite literally kept making moves on him even after he explicitly said "no", he is a lowborn knight who is in debt with her, also he is not the son of a lord but a steward against the daughter of the f King! Even if he "consented" afterwards (which doesnt exist) it doesnt change what she did and the psichological damage she inflicted on him Btw she seems to have this obssesion forcing herself on others because she does it again when she makes out with Misaria at an actual extremely rather odd moment, do the writters know you dont have to make physical advances to show empathy towards others?? Other traits show Rhaenyra has shown are: asking for the "sharp" interrogation of children, disregard of human life with the dragon seeds, she tried to usurp Drigtmark from the rightful heirs through lying and manipulation, demands the heads of all of Alicents children (curiously too how only her male kids are offered eventhough poor Daeron hasnt even done anything and by all accounts he seems to be an actual good person), she is also a terrible leader who doesnt want her small council to make a move and eventhough she doesnt listen to them she considers herself the best option to rule the Kingdom, im sure im forgetting some others but I kinda also want to clean my mind from what I saw in the serie
@@-_YouMayFind_-Changing a character completely to the point they have no flaws, Rhaenyra in books is willing to do everything for the throne because she believes its her by right, in the show she’s only willing if nobody gets hurt. As Daemon points out in their argument “A fool that dreams of glory without wanting to spill any blood.”(or something similar).
books are written by green maesters. even in the show, yall hate rhaenyra even tho shes strong and kind and smarter (unlike aegon who lost after losing 1 kid while rhaenyra lost MOST of her sons and newborn visenya and did not fly off in rooks rest like an idiot). yall hate her jus bc shes a women. you d rather support aegon who treats aemond and helaena horribly and who has child fighting pits and even after what he did to dyana, yall would rather support him. u accuse rhaenyra for being bad? well look in the mirror team green, yall believe ur own lies its funny lmao
The thing is, while they definitely want to “whitewash” Rhaenyra, they haven’t actually succeeded. While her attitude is portrayed as benevolent, and pretty music plays in the background while she’s on screen, her actions are arguably worse than in the book. She’s still shown to do all the selfish, foolish, malicious incompetent things. She insults, bullies and humiliates the lords vying for her hand in marriage (the same lords whom she would need to support her claim in The Dance). Selfishly and recklessly mothers Strong bastards and treasonously pretends they’re legitimate. Encourages and condones her son’s bullying of her brother leading to Luke cutting Aemond’s eye. Recklessly, selfishly and carelessly neglects her duties as heir by running away to Dragonstone. Is still complicit in B&C, even with the changes from the book by allowing her nephew’s assassin walk away unpunished. The list goes on. They even make her worse in the show by having her murder an innocent man to exile Laenor so she can fornicate with her uncle (imo, she was not responsible for Laenor’s murder in the book). They’re portrayal of the Red Sowing was also far more evil and malicious than described in the book. She basically had them slaughtered against their knowledge and will as a blood sacrifice in the show (in the book, it happens more like how Steffon Darklyn attempts, single file one at a time in order, leave if you’re chickenshit). She’s not actually benevolent in the show and it’s really toxic and/or inept that shownlies support her. The showrunners have made her the protagonist, so they root for her like programmed npcs.
Then ur argument regurgitates itself . Isnt it your point that Rhaneyra isnt as benevolent as she seems then the show definitely does highlights her flaws even further by making her children obv bastards . By making her marry daemon few days after her ex husband died and lover died . So idk what yall on about . The point still stands that the greens usurped her throne . Killed her child and although she hesitated at first . She continues on with the war.( even though she doesnt want to destabilise the relam) Thats what makes her a multifaceted complex character. She doesnt just sit on her butt all day doing nothing like in the books and actively takes part . Meanwhile book readers be complaining she did nothing in the war and gets the glory . While simultaneously saying how " evil" she is . If she did nothing throughout the war then how is evil . Like pick an argument lol . Yall want an evil selfish queen who does nothing at the same time Its all about perception , she had all the rights to be furious at the greens and end them all at once but she didnt because she didnt want innocents to die ( same in the books)
@@PM-od9qm Both can be true. Anyone with a hint of media literacy can tell that the show is attempting to make Rhaenyra out to be the protagonist. Listen to interviews with the show runners and they’ll defend all Rhaenyra’s heinous actions while condemning Aegon II even though the same complexities lie in his actions. Sara Hess recently said in an interview that Rhaenys slaughtering scores of smallfolk at Aegon II coronation in the Dragonpit and Rhaenyra having dozens massacred in the Red Sowing isn’t bad because “it’s GoT, civilians don’t count.” In another interview (maybe it was the same I can’t remember) she condemned Aegon II hanging the rat catchers… but why is that bad? I thought civilians didn’t count. It’s not me that can’t pick an argument. It’s them. That’s what I’m trying to point out, their inconsistencies. There’s a few glaring strawman arguments you made against us “book readers” that require some further correction and explanation. 1. The Greens did not “usurp” Rhaenyra’s throne. The Great Council of 101 AC determined male-only primogeniture by law. This is the law by which their father, Viserys I, claims his own legitimacy, and it was hypocritical for him to ignore it, as it would call into question the legitimacy of his own reign and all the decisions made under it, including naming Rhaenyra heir. This is why the opening prologue of the show was the Great Council. This was less than 3 decades ago, and many of the lords who swore to abide by the decision are still alive during the dance and could equally by considered oathbreathers for siding with the Blacks. I’m more than happy to further elaborate every minute detail of Aegon II’s legitimacy if you would like, but I promise you, the facts are not on Rhaenyra’s side. 2. Both statements that Rhaenyra was inactive and is “evil” (I disagree that book Rhaenyra is evil, but I’ll explain that in the next point) can be true. The Dance takes place over the course of more than a year. While she was inactive at first, the same can’t be said for after she takes King’s Landing. It is true that she is inactive militarily for the whole war (she never directly fights in battle). IMO though, her complete inaction in the beginning of the war is somewhat excusable. She gave birth to a stillborn child, was informed that her father had died and her brother “stole” her crown, and learned that her son was eaten by her other brother’s dragon, all within the course of a few days. I can’t imagine the physical and emotional turmoil she would’ve been going through. 3. While I disagree that Rhaenyra is evil, I do think that she is selfish and incompetent. After taking King’s Landing, her cruelty towards lords (feeding them to dragons in the pit for entertainment and sport), hypocrisy in matters of succession (Driftmark, Stokeworth, etc.), and outrageous tax policies (bastard tax) are all disastrous, but as you said yourself, there are complexities to the situations she was facing, so I wouldn’t say it was “evil.” Let’s not forget about how she’s the one responsible for the deaths of the dragons bringing upon the irrecoverable damage of her house. (Again, I’m happy to delve into the details, this is just already long) The problem is that all the complexities of these situations aren’t shown in the show. Instead we get this constant self righteousness where she’s portrayed as a victim and everything is everyone else’s fault. Her mistakes are never portrayed as mistakes, it’s someone taking something from her. Case and point: the fact that you and many other shownlies believe Aegon II “usurped” her throne. It’s very clear that the showrunners are pushing this agenda by the fact that Aemond calls them “usurpers” in the show. What usurper would ever call themselves that? This is not adding complexity and nuisance. It’s dumbing the conflict down to a black and white, protagonist/antagonist, false dichotomy. I hope you didn’t take any of this the wrong way. I only meant it to be a healthy discussion. Edit: For the record, while Rhaenyra is called Maegor with teats by the commonfolk, I think she actually more comparable to her grandson Aegon IV, the Unworthy, as his selfish incompetence and poor decisions, bastards, etc. also caused a sibling civil war in the form of 5 Blackfyre Rebellions.
@@E_Reich i have read the book too and it is clear as day that aegon usurped the throne . The greens didnt let the council decide who will inherit the throne ( like how Jaeherys decided to crown Viserys ) they stole it forcefully and hanged or killed those who didnt seem to agree and later killed their child . Usurping the rightful heir as decreed by the previous monarch and kinslaying is also not favored in the law. Meanwhile even in the books Rhaenyra said she would pardon them if they bent the knee , similar to the show . She showed themmercy until Lukes death . Even in the show she is flawed as hell, makes impulsive decisions many times even selfish but it is also shown as not as simple and her beliefs and decisions are very nuanced which makes her realistic . The greens also arent completely evil , unlikable as hell yes the show portrays them on a negative light but thats just how things also happened in the books infact they made many changes to make them seem more humane like Lukes death being an accident , Aegon actually mourning and crying for his son , Aegon being bullied and manipulated and clowned by the entire council . Him being a victim in Rooks rest . Aemond being constantly bullied by Aegon. And Alicent being the voice of reason and trying to stop escalating the situation but being dominated by men around her. And many book purists again complain that they made the changes even though they also favor the green sides many times because they want the cold inhumane characters like pick a struggle😭 Like yall need to accept , in adaptations things change especially since f&b is an unreliable narration which makes these changes not that bad compared to an actual book . Its just a different perspective on these characters and incidents than described in the books .
Season 2, I absolutely hate her. She's an incredibly entitled person. Self-righteous, petulant, and weak. She's never seen ruling as her duty but as her right. Which for me, makes me dislike her intensely. Idk why the writers chose to go with the Blacks good/Greens bad narrative. They should try to even out it in season 3 because in this season it nearly ruined the show.
“Nearly ruined” 😂😂 hotd became fanfic the moment they made alicent and rhaenyra “besties” and considering where it went that shit was better if it never left the writers room, not to mention the white heart appearing to her during the hunt, the coronation scene, the writers attributing the overturning of roe v wade to Emma’s death……🙄……, her and daemon killing a guard the same night laenor was killed and it’s as if everyone on driftmark is R E T A R D E D, them making aegon a grapist and as if that wasn’t bad enough he also indulge in fighting pits (WITH CHILDREN) ………..😐 I’m just surprised ( not really) it’s taken this long for people to call out hotd for the mid show that it has been heading for since season 1 ( tho they had some good bits) they have been fumbling since season 1 so I doubt they’ll get a grip on there passions come next season it’s only gonna be more fanfic writing……
@@ПатиматРаджабова-ъ2ж aegon’s character wasn’t haha if he was u all would hate on rhaenyra and say “oh she’s not like this in the books” so go cry for ur rapegon
Rhaenyra should have been a mix of Cersei and Dany while Alicent should be like Margery Tyrell from GOT. Their rivalry was much more interesting in the books than the versions on the show. I don’t even really know what they want on the show - especially Alicent. Rhaenyra in the show wants to be queen but only if she doesn’t hurt anyone and Alicent has basically given up on her children for no real reason I can understand. It’s a really bizarre way to take the characters - I don’t understand what they are trying to do that is interesting or an improvement.
books are written by green maesters. even in the show, yall hate rhaenyra even tho shes strong and kind and smarter (unlike aegon who lost after losing 1 kid while rhaenyra lost MOST of her sons and newborn visenya and did not fly off in rooks rest like an idiot). yall hate her jus bc shes a women. you d rather support aegon who treats aemond and helaena horribly and who has child fighting pits and even after what he did to dyana, yall would rather support him. u accuse rhaenyra for being bad? well look in the mirror team green, yall believe ur own lies its funny lmao
@@ryanandutan2814 Margery was smarter and more manipulative and ambitious. She was truly a great character. Alicent is too..how to say this under-mans-boot character. She is so bland, so subservient so male oriented. Not really exciting to watch. Its like 90% of women like that, always opening ways for men, always submitting to men, always working for men, prasing men, craving their validation and judging other women. She is your typical religous woman next door. Quite sad story of being used by men all her life of course.
If I adapted the story I'd have whitewashed her a bit for likeability but she'd turn full cruel black queen after Luke is killed. I'd also plant seeds of it before his death so that the transformation is more realistic. Maybe she commands Cole to pleasure against his will (more explicitly) or Viserys hears of their affair and is about to have him executed and she sells him out (but Alicent saves him)...
In the Dance of The Dragons, my favourite characters were Jacaerys and Daeron the Daring. I hate how in their efforts to give Rhae more storyline they took away from Jace, the dragon seeds storyline showed how Jace was coming into his own as Crown Prince
Jacaerys was ruined too. He had such an important role in the book, and he even had a character arc and growth. I hate that the show cut that out. I hate that they didn't include the whole Winterfell storyline, because that was so important for his character.
@@thecriticalmaester9702 if the writers dont do 180 turn in Season 3. I'll just watch the seaeon 4 reviews honestly, coz they already messed Daeron by excluding Maelor in the Story😒
But guess what? They have time to give baela and rhaena “more to do” even tho daeron does a lot more to do narrative wise and he’s just hung up on the wall in the writers room like - 🧍🏼♂️…………😐, I refuse to take hotd seriously as a contender with game of thrones.
@@youngveteran6368 I'm not watching season 3. It's too painful to see them butcher characters that I love. Especially the Greens. I'm actually enjoying ROP in some ways more and that's sad.
They wanted us so bad to pick a side even though it's not the type of story where you should pick a side , this story should've portrayed two power hungry sides who did everything to win , this story should've been like real life politics ... No one is innocent in this game ... Innocent people only exist in children's stories or fanfiction 💀
@@ACinemafanatic well even before then she was always spiteful and vindictive it's said when she gets called out for her infidelity she had daemon kill and maim people and had the remains fed to cyrax.
@@apacalypsagon3758 that would be so satisfying to watch, not this weird emotional and weak mess.. like why are they so afriad? i wanna see a true rage
no wonder people liked milly alcock's rhaenyra better. that was more accurate to her book version. rebellious, greyed character. not honorable. while emma darcys rhaenyra is suddenly a saint instead of the younger rhaenyras similar traits but MAGNIFIED into a worse state
The idea that the Maesters wrote the books to favour the greens because they hate the Targaryens in nonsense because the greens themselves are also Targaryens. If anything it is black fans who are biased one which is rooted in the notion that the blacks are Targaryens and greens are Hightowers. Could anything more clearly show the obvious bias of the black fans than their attempt to deny that Aegon II and his siblings are also the blood of the dragon?
books are written by green maesters. even in the show, yall hate rhaenyra even tho shes strong and kind and smarter (unlike aegon who lost after losing 1 kid while rhaenyra lost MOST of her sons and newborn visenya and did not fly off in rooks rest like an idiot). yall hate her jus bc shes a women. you d rather support aegon who treats aemond and helaena horribly and who has child fighting pits and even after what he did to dyana, yall would rather support him. u accuse rhaenyra for being bad? well look in the mirror team green, yall believe ur own lies its funny lmao
@@Kerisajustbored i’m not jus talking ab the book. i’m also talking ab the show, where they clearly portray the difference in rhaenyra and aegon’s characters and even after seeing who aegon and aemond are, yall still support them, which says a lot of about what kind of people yall are
@Shruti-eh9vr I don't support aemond and aegon and never will and I said in my comment that rhaenyra isn't a feminist she isn't the only targaryen woman I see in the book is alyssane she had to meeting to see what the problem the women of westeros and setting laws in order to protect the women where as Rhaenyra didn't do any of that and people who are calling out Rhaenyra and the things she did wrong and saying that we hate her because she a women doesn't make sense to me because you can love character and call out the things they did wrong they didn't have much political influence and her father unmind her many times even tho he name her as his heir in public just because he made the house Pledged your loyalty doesn't mean that they actually support her leave to go on dragonstone which was her biggest mistake the dance of the dragon isn't even team black or green it's about the corrupt system of westeros and should men has all the power
It's actually insane how normalized misandry is in movie industry these days. This show with its "women are always peaceful" and "men crave war" messages is just a tip of the iceberg of what we are seeing in other media. Like in what universe were we supposed to root for Alicent selling out all the men in her family and only sparing Helaena, because she is a girl? The fact that someone wrote this scene, someone else approved it and someone put it together without saying how insane it truly is, is enough to rule how fcked up our society is. And how fcked up it is that hating men is considered normal. The amount of vitriol that this fandom holds towards Criston Cole simply because he refused to be Rhaenyra's s€xtoy is honestly horrifying. Rhaenyra was whitewashed simply because she is a woman. Just like Alicent was whitewashed simply because she is a woman. And Rhaenys and Mysaria were whitewashed simply because they are women. They are all victims of the patriarchy and the men around them. I came to hate Rhaenys as a character, because she's not really a character. She was there simply as a mouthpiece of the writers to voice and force their 21st century views in medieval fantasy setting. Some things that Rhaenys was saying would never even cross the mind of a medieval woman. She's not a character, she's a caricature.
The sad thing is that if they portrayed the women of the show as the conniving, ruthless manipulators they are, it would actually serve to show a more egalitarian view of women in ASoIaF. Portraying them as both victims of a patriarchal system but also readily playing into it for their own selfish gain would be too nuanced for production studios. Instead we just get women being victims, women being smarter than men yet constantly doubted by them, and men being the cause of basically every conflict in their world.
I agree with a lot of what ur saying but I don’t think Criston is hated solely for not wanting to be a sextoy lol, he’s the definition of a man who failed upward despite acting incredibly brashly/stupidly in multiple instances and in ways that should’ve gotten him killed like 3x over, despite being shown to be smart on the battlefield.
@@user-yl2so8db5tCriston was the greatest fighter of his time too. Plus book Ser Criston had some great one liners… “seven save us if we sit a bastard on the iron throne.”
THANK YOU! It's geniunely crazy because you know if a woman refused to be a sex toy of a prince and then talked shit about him people would say that it's "female empowerment" but a man does it and they call him an "incel" like come on...
The writers wanted to show the dance because it fit into their narrative about evil sexist men went to war because they wouldn't want a women on the iron throne.....so they had to whitewash rhaenyra because if they didnt the narrative wouldnt be what they originally wanted, but instead it would give people the idea that while its wrong to go against a ruler because of their gender that maybe rhaenyra shouldn't be queen because she was a horrible choice of a monarch. They do it all for Rhaenyra.
And the show could've touched on the issue of misogyny the way the books did ... Rhaenyra experienced sexism but it also didn't make her a qualified or competent leader. She should be a flawed gray character or anti-hero at LEAST ... but she was made into a one-dimensional "girlboss".
@@lordfreerealestate8302 not just any girlboss but she has been labelled as the chosen one.....I mean they made a fricken animal that whoever sees it shows ur chosen by the gods.........
@@lordfreerealestate8302i think also the error that she wasn’t a competent leader is because her dad didn’t do a good job with her politically since he pretty much tossed her to the wolves the moment he named her heir and he made the inheritance an even bigger mess marrying alicent
@@ACinemafanatic At the end of the day she needs to be a competent ruler, not being taught just makes her more unqualified. So she shouldn't be queen on that basis alone. I don't think most people understand this.
@@ACinemafanaticshe also had no interest in being trained to rule. She kept neglecting her duties and skipping out on council meetings. If she had any political acumen, she would have stayed in King’s Landing when Viserys was bedridden and worked to be the regent in the same vein George IV was the regent when George III’s health and sanity were declining. Viserys had no interest in teaching her, and she had no interest in learning. Simple as that.
@@thecriticalmaester9702 Thank Mr. Maester once again you have another banger of a video that never fails to brighten my day thanks again for being the best team green RUclipsr out there.💚 🫡
@@ObsidianKnight217 books are written by green maesters. even in the show, yall hate rhaenyra even tho shes strong and kind and smarter (unlike aegon who lost after losing 1 kid while rhaenyra lost MOST of her sons and newborn visenya and did not fly off in rooks rest like an idiot). yall hate her jus bc shes a women. you d rather support aegon who treats aemond and helaena horribly and who has child fighting pits and even after what he did to dyana, yall would rather support him. u accuse rhaenyra for being bad? well look in the mirror team green, yall believe ur own lies its funny lmao
It could have rehabilitated the disaster that was GOT’s final three seasons. Instead, they grabbed the idiot ball, hard, and doubled down on the stupidity.
The only character that parallels Dany is ironically Nettles. Orphaned, homeless, brave, gained a dragon love and got a clan of people to worship her. The writers are foolish.
I love Nettles as a character but she is definitely not like Daenerys. About the Orphan. Nettles is either Daemon's daughter or his mistress according to the book . Mushroom had the theory Nettles was Dameons lover. On the other side, Norren wrote that Daemon doted upon Nettles "as a man might dote upon his daughter", and described Daemon teaching Nettles common courtesies and giving her fine Gifts.Either way in terms of her having a dragon she has family ties to daemon and the Targaryens. She's probably not an orphan if Daemon is her father. Daenerys bases her entire conquest of Westeros and all her actions on the fact that she is the only legitimate daughter of the last king. Nettles is unfortunately not aristocratic or royal and has sworn her allegiance to others. Daenarys pursued her goals until her death and Nettles simply disappeared after Daemon's death even though the black faction needed her because she had one of the last dragons. Apart from that Nettles was hated by the greens because of her connection to Daemon, the blacks especially Rhaenyra hated her because they couldn't trust her as Dragonseed and the normal population especially in kingslanding saw her as one of the traitorous bastards of the Targaryens (Dragonseeds) and/or the mistress of a mass murderer (Daemon). She herself had no one but Daemon who appreciated her. In contrast to Daenerys, who many adored, but who had no special beloved person. In her childhood , Dany often changed her Home but they had money through the jewelry of her mother, a roof over their heads and she never went hungry or worked for money. She was never really homeless. Nettles had to steal for her money and she really was homeless. Nettles took weeks to tame the Dragon through sheeps and Dany bound herself to the Dragons through magic when she burned herself and she had vague visions who partly showed her how to do that or she was just self destructive when she threw herself in the fire. Every character is unique and you can not compare Rhaenyra to Dany or Dany to Nettles.
@@Cat-mn7mlwell Nettles and Dany were penniless Dany was princess but never lived like princess she had to move one place to another to survive and Nettles lived in streets. Both girls did what other couldn’t Nettles claims wild dragon when other dragon seeds couldn’t do it Dany wakes dragon from the stone when her ancestors couldn’t do it. Also when Drogon runs away he becomes wild and attacks people Dany tames him. Both girls claim wild dragons without anyone’s help. Nettles in the end lives with her dragon and Dany also lives with Drogon they lived beside their dragons. Nettles becomes some kind of goddess for savage clan and Daenerys is now become Mhysa and breaker of chains
@@AlinuraTaskali But the situations are completely opposite. Nettles lived like this in her childhood because she was a bastard. She was never naive and had to get by with theft. She had no one and deliberately tamed a dragon on her own and saved herself from the situation. Daenerys had this childhood because she was a wanted princess. Especially Viserys and other supporters of the Targeryens took care of Dany, that's why she was so naive in the first book. She only got the connection with the drothaki and the dragon eggs because of her status and she didn't hatch the dragons on purpose, it was an extraordinary circumstance. Of course she could tame Drogon, he was not wild, they had a connection like all other dragon riders. Dany does not live with her dragons. They fly around in the wilderness, which doesn't make Dany special compared to all the other dragonriders and their dragons (vaghar/Aemond). Yes, they have both accomplished something incredible but the same can be said about jon and he is nothing like dany. Their ambitions are also completely opposite. Dany's all-important and goal-driving quality is her royal lineage. She wants to claim her birthright. She is a queen and allows herself to be treated as such. Nettles is completely different. She is rather wild, free but has no great ambitions regarding her position.
@@Cat-mn7ml both girls are outcasted Dany is princess who is penniless and powerless while Netles is bastard. GRRM said his most characters is outcasted including Dany. Dany marries Drogo where she at least had someone with her. While Nettles was accepted by Blacks and she lives with Daemon. Dany had Viserys and Nettles also probably had mother but maybe she dies. We don’t know much about her. I am sure there was someone who raised her. While Other Targaryens lived in luxury. When Drogon meets Dany after he run away he attacks people and was even ready to kill Dany. She says if I run he will devour me. He burns her hand and her hair. Also in the book in Adwd it’s said other Valyrians used spell magic to control dragons but Daenerys did it with one word and whip. While Nettles tames wild dragon with sheep. If you look at other Targaryens they had knowledge and experience about dragons. They always had someone to teach them. But both girls never had someone to guide them. When Drogon takes her to Dothraki sea Dany sees where Drogon lived. She eats what Drogon ate and when Drogon burns horse they together starts to eat it. Show me a Targaryen who had the same experience. There were no Targaryens who lived like that. Vhagar wasn’t wild dragon Vhagar had 3 riders before Aemond. For example Silverwing after her rider died she made her lair in Red lake where it’s said she became wild just like Drogon who made his lair in Dothraki sea. Nettles lives with Sheepstealer they also together eat whatever dragon bring. Only two of them lived like this. Other Targaryens literally locked their dragons in Dragon pit. Dany makes the same mistake but when she was with Drogon she accepts fire and blood which she finally realised that It was wrong idea. Dany and Nettles have more common thing when it comes to dragons. Savage clan worshiped her and Dany also forms her own khalasar becomes first woman to do this. She helps slaves and they literally sees her as their mother. Yeah Dany has more thing she needs to accomplish but you can not deny that they don’t have parallels.
@@AlinuraTaskali Viserys II, son of Rhaenyra, lived as a slave in the free cities and grew up there. He had no money and no power. Alysanne and Jaeherys were imprisoned by their uncle during their childhood and had no power and no luxurious life. Even when they freed themselves, they had to live in hiding until Maegor died. Aegon V followed Duncan as an orphan and a commoner. As the 4th son of a 4th son, he was irrelevant for the succession to the throne and had no luxuary while he lived with Duncan. Even if, unlike the others, it was his own decision. Ulf White and Hugh Hammer were both bastards of House Targaryen and lived like Nettles in childhood. The only difference is that they died later. The entire Blackfire Clan lived in hiding. So some of them did. The dragonpit thing was only from the time of maegor. Before that, all dragons lived freely. Even after the construction Vaghar and Balerion lived freely. So it's not unusual. Incidentally, every dragon challenged its rider at the beginning. Even Vaghar with Aemond. As Viserys also said, dragons are free and wild by nature. Even any experience from others is useless, otherwise Rhaena would have a dragon long ago. Thats why Dany wasn't that special with taming Drogon either because he was not wild. He was raised by her and he challenged her like all Targaryen dragons. There are some parallels but they are not special and their ambitions and characters are too different. Btw Nettles mum was a whore and she really had no one. She was homeless. Viserys took care of everything and practically raised Dany. Nettles tamed the Dragon herself but Daemon teached her later unlike Dany. She had someone who helped her. Furthermore most targeryens commanded their dragons with words.
Something I hadn't realized about currency advisor Lord Lyman Beesbury. The thing is that, very blind to the probable danger that Daemon and the bastards of Rhaenyra represent, he seems like a dangerously blind or even malicious politician. Then I remembered the case of Saera Targaryen and her main lover Sir Braxton Beesbury whom Jaehaerys I killed with his own hands for disgracing his daughter. This Braxton was the Beesbury heir and since Lyman was a Lord, he concluded that he was Braxton's nephew or something, but what he discovered is revealing. Lord Lyman was born in 49 AD and on the other hand Braxton alias "sting" was born in 65, meaning that Lyman is 16 years older than Braxton, the latter specified that he was the heir and that he had younger brothers but Lord Lyman cannot be his brother. minor because he is 16 years old and the only link I can establish is! Lord Lyman is Braxton Beesbury's father! and actually recent of the Targaryens because Jaehaerys himself liquidated his son and heir. He probably wanted to put the worst Targaryens on the throne, which would be Rhaenyra, Jacaerys and Daemon because he knew they could destroy the work of Jaehaerys I (the murderer of his son Braxton) and destroy the Targaryens from within. All as revenge for the son that the Targaryen king killed. His blindness towards Rhaenyra was never real but he knows that it is disastrous for the Targaryens and he wants that catastrophe to exploit the Targaryens in the worst way.
My problem is shes boring. Im fine with a little whitewashing, same goes for Alicent. Because the book clearly portrays them as the two evil witch’s that tore the realm apart. But they should still have some of the traits from the books. Like blood and cheese make it clear that it was sanctioned by Rhaeynra. It’s an evil act, but we understand it and why she did it. Or instead of a passive Alicent have her slowly turn into this ambitious woman who takes control of her life by being the one whispering in the kings ear. Ultimately the biggest problem with the show is Alicent and Rhaynera. They’ve been reduced to much less interesting characters, and since their the primary characters it makes the show less interesting.
@@fildanfernanda8729 books are written by green maesters. even in the show, yall hate rhaenyra even tho shes strong and kind and smarter (unlike aegon who went crazy after losing 1 kid while rhaenyra lost MOST of her sons and newborn visenya and did not fly off to rooks rest like an idiot). yall hate her jus bc shes a woman. you d rather support aegon who treats aemond and helaena horribly and who has child fighting pits and even after what he did to dyana, yall would rather support him. u accuse rhaenyra of being bad? well look in the mirror team green, yall believe ur own lies its funny lmao
@@Shruti-eh9vr look at the marketing of HBO itself "Team Black vs Team Green" Why would yall mad when someone support for the team that you dont support, what a childish. I like Rhaenyra in season 1 but in season 2 her character is so bland and boring. Imao ironically like Aegon and enjoy Aegon so much meanwhile i know Aegon is a r@p1st but i enjoy him more than saint Rhaenyra bullshit
Rhaenyra in books :I want my throne and i want it now ! daddy promised to me ! Rhaenyra in show :I must win throne God send me to save the World...i mean sit the Throne
@@queenxx1690 realistically if she was keen on securing the 7 kingdoms she would keep the 4 out of the 6 kingdoms sworn to the realm at this time and If she was really REALLY serious she would promise vyserys or aegon iii to a young daughter of house Martel and secure 5 out of the 7 kingdoms, allow the storm lands, and the western lands to be sworn to the green faction where they can use oldtown as a base of operations for there monarchy. And she would have 5 out of 7 kingdoms and 11 dragons to secure the safety of the realm……. But alas she isn’t that sharp
I felt that in season one of the show, the writers don’t really explore why the questionable actions of Rhaenyra are questionable: - Her rude treatment of the lords vying for her hand in marriage was just a boss girl scene of just humiliating those loser men - Seducing Criston Cole was an abuse of authority that was not adequately addressed. And the fandom are only willing to give Rhaenyra 2% of the blame here while focusing the rest on Cole. - The issue of Rhaenyra having bastards and passing them off as trueborn was not thoroughly explored as a bad thing. Instead its framed that Rhaenyra should be allowed to seat her bastards on the throne. Notice how the blacks don’t care that the Strongs are bastards while the evil greens call them out for being so. I’m tired of black fans gaslighting everyone into believing that the Strong boys are not bastards. They argue that Laenor is gay and cannot give children and he accepts them as his sons as do Viserys and Corlys. But why doesn’t Rhaenyra use these arguments herself? I would be more forgiving if she did but doesn’t. She instead insists that they are biologically Laenor's father. And we’re supposed to root and cheer when Viserys defends her and Daemon killing Vaemond when he was clearly in the right. - Wanting Aemond questioned sharply for where he heard of rumors of the Strong boys bastardy when it’s so obvious they are. And making it a bigger deal than Aemond permanently losing his eye. But Rhaenyra is a loving mother defending her sons against the evil greens. - “Killing” Laenor. Even, Daemon refused Laena to return to Westeros and him. Rhaenyra and Daemon got married right away but it’s a beautiful moment so let’s ignore the fact they murdered an innocent man and let a couple believe their last child is dead. It’s still wild that the Corlys and Rhaenys still support Rhaenyra But it’s as if to show Rhaenyra won their respect. I tried to keep this as short as I could
I agree. Cole was forced into an awkward situation by the Princess, and he would’ve suffered consequences from it either way. It doesn’t matter if Rhaenyra wasn’t going to tell anyone, his position and his oath have been compromised.
Honestly, what bothers me the most is that for all their attempts to make Rhaenyra more sympathetic, she still commits plenty of selfish, evil acts on the show, but the narrative refuses to call her out for it. She uses Ser Criston Cole, ignores Daemon's evil actions, has multiple children out of wedlock, fakes Ser Laenor's death, and tries to have Aemond tortured, among other things. Team Green does evil things and the narrative shames them for it, Team Black does evil things and the narrative portrays them as heroes.
That’s ultimately what turned me off to Rhaenyra. The narrative (the writers) refusing to call out her bad behavior made her a character I really hate. Instead, they explain away and justify her flaws. God, I hate this character. She’s insufferable.
3 eyed raven is the main character of HBO's "fan" fic, he controls everyone's fate since the Trags left for Dragonstone. Sara Hess is the new Kathleen Kennedy. Season 2 is the new got season 8 season is nothing but filler. "What would you have me do" is the new "she is muh queen, i don't want it".
Crazy thing is Bloodraven wasn't even born yet during the Dance of Dragons, and yet Ryan and Sara still made him a main character. It just shows that the people who are running the show are not even real fans of the books, because how could they not know that. 🙄
As a woman I’m insulted the show runners are trying to compare Rheanyra to Dany. Apples and oranges people. Dany came from nothing even though she was royalty. Rheanyra had a silver spoon in her mouth. Dany would have never sent to have a child murdered because she escaped from assassination as a baby and child. Rheanyra was cut throat in the book and that’s why I liked her chubby ass.
theres this movie called i, tonya where you have the people describing the events and some describe it differently and we see both scenes of the event playout, i wish we had that with house of the dragons so we leave the fans to interpret what really happened instead of seeing a show that says this is what haooened
The thing is, they wanted people to root for Rhaenyra. They cannot do that if they portrat her as evil and uncaring. Thus why they changed her. Since the show is very pro-blacks, they definitely did want to put all the evil on the men and not make women be the mean ones. Here they had the opportunity to blame all that on Daemon and leave Rhaenyra to be kind. In the books she's ruthless the more she goes into war but not really evil. She was spoiled but had a motherly good side as well. So its not like the character didnt have a good side either.
I still remember people hating Helaena and George reaction to that he actually demolished that Rhaenyra was loved by the people, in fact he always calls Aegon and Helaena King and Queen meanwhile he never once called Rhaenyra Queen and he directly said she wasn't loved at all
Some of these average hollywoood writers only care about putting their own ideals through these characters. As a result we get flawed inconsistent characters.
I wish we would’ve been able to see the spoiled, feminine, and conniving Rhaenyra from the book. There’s no one like Daenerys. Mysaria would honestly be the closest to her character
@@Male_Ficent I just meant that Mysaria is the only prominent character who has been sold as a slave and is in a foreign land. What he was talking about in the video that makes Rhaenyra so different from Daenerys. But ofc Mysaria could never be Daenerys. No character could
this was im talkin about bro, but my friends who didnt read the books they liked the show so much even though it was garbage. ur opinions are valid bro
In their absolute scramble, to paint Rahenyra as this Tragic Saviour figure, and everyone else (Largely men in general) as these war-hungry barbarians that "Only she can keep together" (Rahenys, you killed like 90 peasants, sit down), they ended up making her...boring. She's just a wet blanket constantly floundering about and trying to "Avoid War" when we're already several battles and bodycounts in. Raheanyra in the books isn't a saviour, or even that much of a good person, (good daughter and mother TBF) But she is INTERESTING. Because of her flaws. Flaws that, in the show, have to be passed on to others so she isn't stained. Let her be flawed. Let her sink to her enemies level. Let...bloody hell let some measure of blame fall on the Blacks.
It’s not an issue for me that they brought the prophecy into the show, that was an interesting twist, but that they used it to wholly justify a narrative that we the audience KNOW didn’t play out that way. It would have been much better if they’d used it to critique rhaenyra, and the entire concept of the prophecy, rather than to make both shows into something they we’re not
A memorable thing they removed from the tv series is in the books its Mysaria who finds and hires Blood and Cheese as well as being the one who gives the son for a son orders if they kept it in this would've gave soemething for Mysaria too do and a reason she becomes Rhaenyras right hand in likee a week if Rhaenyra actually was happy with the death but no it was Daemon everything bad the blacks do is on Daemon.
Lauren LeFranc who wrote The Penguin should've showrunned this with Ryan Condal because she knew how to write complex/morally grey characters whereas the one they chose for HOTD clearly doesn't
they really tried to fex her but they failed .. they removed maelor to make her look like a nice queen like she didn't order to bring him and led to his worst ending and when king aegon the elder won the confilct . he did not think of himself and kept her son alive ( daemon' s son ) to save the bloodline .. and they let us know that aegon ii had so many bastards and he cheat on his wife like rhaenyra didn't bring shame to the royal family by having bastards three times when she was married and after all of that she tried to let them be kings .. i mean i do not have a problem with rhaenyra in the throne .. i have a problem with bastards in the throne because we are talking about a bloody bloodline here .. if she didn't have true sons like aegon and viserys its okay if jace take it to safe the bloodline .. in the end rhaenyra will be never like daenerys ,, dany is a real queen and i really hope she takes her ancestor's throne .. rhaenyra is nothing but a claimant who aegon defeat her and won the conflict but lost the war .. long live king aegon the second of his name .his reign will be remembered as the king who successfully defended his father's throne
I feel like the “a song of ice and fire prophecy was a way to white wash her even early on. You can like her as a character, but the writers shouldn’t be removing/ downplaying stuff
Edit: 9:29. Thats not Rhaenyra. Thats Daenera and Corwyn Corbray. Bro, don't underestimate your audience. We are wise enough to know all the artworks lol
Okay but I gotta point out Dany in the books is motivated by helping people around her, without knowing of any prophecies, if anything she heard of the Azor Ahai prophecy AFTER she completed it. Other than that yep, HoTD tries to emulate Dany at every turn in their show because she's the reason the show exist. It's sad how the show-runners and writers had F&B to base everything on and people would like it Thank you for the video!
The writers of this series are writing their own fan fiction. And as George said, the rest of the seasons can only get worse. In fact, it's a shame that such a significant event in asoiaf, like a heartbreaking war between a brother and sister, turned into a lesbian fanfiction written by two clowns
When I read the novella, I loved the blacks and wanted to side with them, but watching house of the dragon. I find myself liking the greens and it’s honestly shocking to me, but I think it’s because I can’t stand Rhaenyra‘s character and she was my favorite in the book
0:17 what? When she was young she was rude, selfish and rebellious. Everyone around her had to follow rules, but since she was the king's daughter and her father allowed it, she literally did whatever she wanted with the only punishment being a reprimand. If others had acted as she did in her youth, they would have been sentenced to death. But her father loved her very much and allowed her everything. I didn't start feeling bad for Rahenyra until she took her role as heiress seriously and started actually acting like one, something that happens literally at the end of season two...
The reason Dany (except for S8), Cersei, Margaery, and Arya are so likeable is because they aren’t perfect and absoluty morally correct ppl, and they don’t intend hide it. Some of them are selfish, power hungry, mean, murderers, and have envy, but on the other hand they’ve redeeming qualities, they are clever, cunning, have empathy and will protect their love ones. That’s what makes them interesting. Book Nyra and book Alicent are the same. But the Rhaenyra potrayed by hbo is “almost” an angel like 😐 to the point she doesn’t encourage you to keep watching how human she is, she’s like a vassel of character who falls victim of everyone around her. “How can’t you be TB?” Well, you can’t not be TB bc everything pushes you to be Team Rhaenyra no matter what, and don’t get me wrong I know she’s the rightful heir, but the show lacks soul bc of the simple fact that everything has to make Rhaenyra look “unrealistic pure”
If they really wanted to do a proper feminist show, they should have done a show on Nymeria and the Rhyonar. No. They just want to whitewash females in House of the Dragon and make dragon battles.
Nice analysis. It feels like the show's creators are trying to atone for turning Daenerys into a crazy villain by making Rhaenyra more heroic and noble than she should be. Rhaenyra feels like an apology to the female fans who admired Dany. (I still think she's well written; they've not turned her into an infallible girlboss. But they have clearly made her the protagonist.)
Yes I was just saying they made Rhaenyra pu**y in the show I hate it! I was team black in the books because she was ruthless & ambitious & willing to do what she had to do to get her throne. & she was the named heir & the lords of the realm swore fealty to her. That’s all she needed for me but the show version is too hesitant & it makes her look weak. I rolled my eyes so hard at her sneaking into KL to talk to Alicent after kids have been murdered 🤦🏾♀️
The answer is a bias against men. The female characters are being made into flawless paragons and martyrs. We need to just admit it and if we want the show to improve. We need to point out its real issues. There are almost no decent male characters in this show, and the morally gray men are made much worse than they are in the books. This has nothing to do with Dany.
Okay I’m so sorry but if this is the case I wanna see you make a video essay on every other character because they do this..with everyone else as well. Same thing with game of thrones in my opinion 😭 they switch up and take out so many things.
It should also be noted that Matilda wasn’t warmly welcomed to England because she lived in Germany and had no connection to the people, while Stephen, her rival, did live in England and made bonds and connections to the people.
It's absolutely mad that the showrunners think that Rhaenyra and Daenerys, with two completely different starting points, could come out the same and want the Iron Throne for the same reasons.
Alot of rulers didn't gain power from being nice, why couldn't these people let her be cruel and selfish from time to time, it would've made her more interesting
I agree. But I think they might do that in future seasons as she descends into evilness... there has to be a motive to have Ulf and Hugh do what they do.
They won’t even make her fat 😂
Bruh! 🤣🤣🤣
@@bufongodemdabae308 oh I noticed that too...fatphobia anyone? Lol
Seriously. I was looking forwards to that
They didn't make any characters who are chubby in the book, chubby in the series. Aegon and Helaena are chubby as well.
So much for body positivity.
It was crazy how Rhaenyra “kind of forgot” that Luke was slaughtered after episode 1 of season 2
Like how dany forgot the iron fleet
And that she had an incredibly brutal miscarriage that was literally triggered by the news of her father's death and the usurpation of her throne 🙃
@dejajade6726 completely forgot about that scene lol. What was even the point? They didn't use it as like a bad omen or anything. It just happens and then everyone forgets about it.
I am 17yo girl, and I don't want to keep seeing this story of "women victims of men's actions in situations where they are involved" or stories where they are softened... I WANT TO SEE women with interesting pasts that are linked to their actions, brave, evil, selfish, sadistic, narcissistic, who seek to achieve their goals whether good or bad and who have their own motivations (and I don't care if I like the character or not) but who also have mistakes and are guilty of many things causing death and pain.
I want to see moments like Cersei torturing Ellaria Sand and Septa Unella, Margaery manipulating Joffrey/Tommen to become THE queen, Olenna Tyrell being THE GOAT or Catelyn Stark hating Jon Snow just for existing
PREACH 👏 GRRM knew how to make complex characters that happened to be female. Many of the new-day writers have female characters as flawless. Whenever they make bad decisions it's never their fault as they were in that position due to men.
girl, go tf off 👏🏽 thank you. they butchered rhaenyra and alicent. like they did them both so dirty. book alicent would never have given up her kids or abandoned them and in the show rhaenyra seems to barely care she lost Luke ? she looked mad one time then next season she just wasn’t mad anymore? we need to see her thirst for vengeance and her grief and even her madness. they just had her play pacifist all season and then she gets a little zealot-y and that’s it
finally! sadly most people will call that charcter a bxh and not see her dpth because people are brainwashed to only see male characters as deep..
May I please reccomend the Show Spartacus Blood and Sand?
It has in my opinion the most underrated female villian in any medium in Lucretia who is played by the amazing Lucy Lawless Aka Xena Warrior Princess
@@dominiqueodom3099 i second this!! she KILLS that role. i need to rewatch it too.
George has referred to the "typical Targaryen princess" sometimes as one of his favorite character archetypes in his world: fiery, bold, strong-willed, ruthless and willing to burn anything that stands against her, or she thinks stands against her. Visenya, Rhaena, Rhaenys, Rhaenyra and Baela are all that type of character.
This show we were supposed to get several of those characters, but they all got retconned because those character appear to be pRoBlEmAtIc now to the writers' sensibilities. Women are supposed to be patient, gentle, kind, wise and good, all of them.
Apparently, the supposedly Green-biased maesters forgot to mention that one of Rhaenyra's biggest supporters crashed Aegon II's coronation in the Dragonpit and callously slaughtered hundreds of innocent smallfolk in the process.
RIGHT!!!
When confronted about this in an interview with the Hollywood Reporter Sarah Hess said and I quote: "It's Game of Thrones - Civilians don't count." WTF?!?
@@lordfreerealestate8302 you watched SavageBooks' deep dive too? 😂😂oh man that was illuminating, it was hard for me to understand why the hate was only directed at Sara Hess, but I got to see straight from the horses mouth - she has out there views colouring everything and yes men.
That video was 110%, professional, factual, and objective; Sara Hess doesn't understand Fire and Blood and she replaces anything she doesn't get with her personal views antithetical to the source material. It's not opinion, she thinks every negative thing written about the female characters is "patriarchy" propaganda so she infuriatingly disregards canon with sheer confidence.
"The maesters kinda forgot the Slaughter at the Dragonpit." - Condal and Hess, probably
@@lordfreerealestate8302 This is how rich liberals feel about the working class in real life. No surprise.
Their obsession with making sure the women never come off as bad completely killed her as a character. Instead of being a fully fleshed out character she's just a shadow of a character. Making her be drug into war by the evil men makes her look like a weak ruler, and her sneaking in to talk to the other queen about peace after her son was murdered makes no sense. I don't know of 1 mother who would lovingly talk to the person responsible for their child's death
I read GoT but not these books and I still thought Raenyra and Alicent are incredibly flawed characters in the show (somewhat as a cause of their circumstances, but not quite)
They did the same thing to Cersei and Ellaria both, trying to make them bad boss bitches and allowing them to run roughshod over other more plots that would have turned out far more interesting if they'd stuck to the material in the book (looking at you, Dorne). I know the showrunners are different but the issue is the same, and it's absolutely a societal/audience/show-runner problem
Because we are also to blame. They rewrite these characters hoping to appeal to the audience watching it. Do you recall why Robb ended up falling in love with a field nurse instead of shotgun-wedding himself to a one-night stand? "Modern audiences won't understand and will have a different expectation for women! They won't understand marrying for honor, it has to be love!" Yes, and when stuff like that is rewritten to make modern audiences feel good they start to forget just how bad things were for women back then...and how 'at the whim of men' their lives actually were.
@Nystariii that was even worse probably, at least for now. It's a shame as well, the first season gave me hope, even though there were already cracks
They do exist irl. There’s a small but existent pocket of people who have offered compassion and forgiveness to murderers and serial killers despite their loved ones being victims, among some of them mothers of victims. The issue isn’t that it’s wholly unrealistic on a general level, it’s that it’s completely inconsistent with RHAENYRA as a character, specifically.
@bluebay1031 that is true, but for them we don't already have a background written for, also she was willing to start a war and kill thousands because she lost her crown why would she take a softer stance after the 2 children. The people who forgive a murderer are not the same that will gladly kill for power.
They want to lure Daenerys' huge fan base to watch the show. It’s not about character development it’s all about viewership, likely a decision made by higher-ups at hbo max
Still milking danys fame after the crap ending D&D gave her.
@@ACinemafanatica crap ending because D&D whitewashed Dany too. Her transformation towards being a Mad Queen is what her entire arc was building up to, and it should have taken seasons to develop. But D&D were afraid of alienating her fanbase so they saved her villain turn for literally the last second of the series.
The problem is that Daenerys actually has character development and is treated as having flaws in the books, and even in the show up until the last few seasons. Daenerys and Jaime were my favorite characters in GoT, and I absolutely hated how they character assassinated all of them in the last seasons. They were my favorite precisely because of how flawed they were; they made mistakes and were at times cruel, but were not evil.
Nothing about Rhaenyra is likeable, and she shares nothing in common with Daenerys. As someone else in the video comments mentioned: Daenerys had to struggle, survive, and earn her way to a position of power from the streets of the Free Cities with an absuive brother. Rhaenyra literally lived her entire life wealthy and priviledged up in the high castle that is the Red Keep; she was a s**t that never earned anything she got. In the books, she had much more in common with Cersei than Daenerys.
all the greens have is “it’s tradition and law for man rule” while completely ignoring that king makes lawso whatever viserys says goes. Greens say “tradition and law” to support Aegon but ignore that Jaehaerys not following “tradition and law” is what made Viserys the King in the first place and what gave Rhaenyra and Aegon their claims. Greens need to learn some common sense.
@@Shruti-eh9vr we’re talking about the writing and how shite it is
Rhaenyra is clearly much more like Cersei than Daenerys. Ruthless, unforgiving, doing anything for power, and her love for her children is her main redeeming factor. She even has the three baseborn children she passes off as real, brutally suppressing anyone calling it out, and eventually fighting a war over it.
Cersei is by far the most interesting female character in book/show
Cersei's love for her children is based purely on narcissism, seeing them as extensions of herself. Rhaenyra (if we're talking about the books) is a bit vapid and spoiled, but her love for her children is far more genuine, so I don't think this comparison is entirely fair.
@@jungunter7372I actually think the comparison that cerseai herself would use in defense of her children, or herself if they weren’t all ☠️
Cersei loves for her children is heavily influenced as she sees them as extensions of herself, not all but a BIG part of it, that is why she was so quickly to dismiss Jaime when he became his own person. Rhaenyra is all those things you said too but even if she is similar I do think they are very different overall as Rhaenyra has some interesting qualities like her relation with Laena, being the youngest dragon rider ever in known history and how genuine it seemed that people close to her love her.
And one of those baseborn sons is even named Joffrey. It’s pretty obvious who Martin was thinking of when he wrote Rhaenyra. She was Cersei before Cersei was Cersei.
It made me laugh when Rhaenys argues to the lords that Rhaenyra wears the crown of Jaehaerys I the Conciliator. The same Jaehaerys who refused to name her heir twice because she was a woman and who certainly would never have named Rhaenyra or her bastards. Not to mention that the crown was stolen, because the king who first wore it would never have given it to her, everything Rhaenys says is ridiculous or absurd.
Every scene with Rhaenys was painful to sit through. She's such a self-righteous twat, and the writers were clearly in love with her character despite writing her to be a mass murderer of innocents.
She says he is the longest reigning king as if it’s some achievement, bish he was the 4th king. Like… Maegor had 3 seconds.
Jaha was not the one for her to name here. 😂
What makes me laugh is Aegon's crown. 😂 That black iron crown looks so cheap
To be fair I do think it's fitting for her to ignore all that and just say whatever and expect everyone to accept her narrative.
@@kedrprao the armor looks great, but honestly that crown looks like it would win 4th place at a regional comic con.
They tried so hard to make her into Daenerys and failed big time. Daenerys had to fight to survive and worked her way up. Rhaenyra got everything handed to her on a silver platter and she still managed to screw up.
Even Daenerys was a flawed character with valid aspects of criticism against her, not a clear-cut heroine. She was gray in some ways, like most GRRM characters.
@@lordfreerealestate8302and honestly, that is why Daenrys is more loved compared to Rhaenyra
@@vardiganxpl1698exactly in the books I feel she will achieve what rhanerya and her other ancestors failed to do since it’s because of the misogyny of the dance the dragons were pretty much destroyed and all because they didnt want a woman on the throne.
“Had everything handed to her” she was a woman living in misogynistic, feudal society. She really had to fight to be taken seriously as a woman in position of power
even Daenerys was my least interesting character . Cersi was far more complex and thrilling to watch .
I am 100% sure that Rhaenyra's death will come across as some kind of ultimate sacrifice. Third and fourth HotD seasons are going to be horrible
You called it
What manner of terrible writing we gonna see is up in the air
She will die like a hero they already established dying by fire is dragon rider death yeah i wonder why 🙃
she'll die but she's gonna be the unburnt like dany but aegon sees this then commands sunfyre to eat her instead.
@@kedrprao This thread is now dedicated to spoilers
Really interesting how the writers read Fire and Blood and decided that actually Rhaenyra is a y/n self-insert character who is perfect and never does anything wrong and is loved by everyone, except for the clearly evil messed up other side of the family who unfairly stole the throne she had divine right to simply because of misogyny, and the many parts of the book that disagree with this interpretation are just propaganda created to smear Rhaenyra specifically.
Outing myself as a Tumblr user rn but omg this was literally my post! Wild to be reading the comment section of a video and then finding your own words already there 😂 anyway glad others feel the same way about this! They really fumbled Rhaenyra so hard. I wish we had complex gray Rhaenyra who wasn't afraid to take any action in her own story 😭
@@essenby123 books are written by green maesters. even in the show, yall hate rhaenyra even tho shes strong and kind and smarter (unlike aegon who lost after losing 1 kid while rhaenyra lost MOST of her sons and newborn visenya and did not fly off in rooks rest like an idiot). yall hate her jus bc shes a women. you d rather support aegon who treats aemond and helaena horribly and who has child fighting pits and even after what he did to dyana, yall would rather support him. u accuse rhaenyra for being bad? well look in the mirror team green, yall believe ur own lies its funny lmao
I think the reason the writers are changing rhenerya is because they’re so scared of touching the mad queen stuff.
that doesn't really help explain all the boring no agency women in the rest of the cast like Baela or Rhaneys
Rhaenys does nothing in the conflict anyways.
Well, Rhaenyra wasn't a "mad queen," per se. She was just an arrogant bitch who wanted the throne from the start and was willing to go to war for it out of her own ambition. She was never mad, just a shitty person from beginning to end.
I actually like the book version more, its complex. While Rhaenyra in the series looks at the best time completly delusional and at all other times like a complete moron.
There's a lot of inconsistency with her characterization that's for sure. The writers don't want her to be like her book counterpart, but they also don't know how they want to develop her as well. They now have to invent a character arc for her, but they just aren't as good as GRRM is at it, so now they're just flailing.
all the greens have is “it’s tradition and law for man rule” while completely ignoring that king makes lawso whatever viserys says goes. Greens say “tradition and law” to support Aegon but ignore that Jaehaerys not following “tradition and law” is what made Viserys the King in the first place and what gave Rhaenyra and Aegon their claims. Greens need to learn some common sense.
u didnt have a problem with show rhaenyra in season 1 so why do u suddenly say shes whitewashed in season 2? oh right bc u hate that most people support true queen rhaenyra. bet u that if ppl hated her in season 2, u would hv never made this video to hate on her. pathetic what people do for green rapist propaganda
its bc braindead fans like u will bash true queen rhaenyra for her faults and celebrate rapist aegon despite the fact that he was more faults than her
books are written by green maesters. even in the show, yall hate rhaenyra even tho shes strong and kind and smarter (unlike aegon who lost after losing 1 kid while rhaenyra lost MOST of her sons and newborn visenya and did not fly off in rooks rest like an idiot). yall hate her jus bc shes a women. you d rather support aegon who treats aemond and helaena horribly and who has child fighting pits and even after what he did to dyana, yall would rather support him. u accuse rhaenyra for being bad? well look in the mirror team green, yall believe ur own lies its funny lmao
How Helaena will die in House of the dragon.
Helaena gets news about jaehaera being sent to storms end to seek refuge with the Baratheons. She sighs then says “I feel as though i should be sad about not being able to see my daughter again”
Alicent asks “what do you mean again??”. Helaena stares at alicent and says “I forgive you”.
The following scene shows rhaenyra entering the room with helaena, she talks to her about the song of ice and fire and how daemon told her about how he saw you in his dreams. Helaena says “you know your part”. Rhaenyra cries after realizing that helaena was team black all along, she gives her sister a hug before walking out of the room.
All alone, Helaena now stares out the window. She suddenly has a dream of the song of ice and fire. There she sees a white walker and dany, before we get a shot of bran. Bran tells Helaena to kill herself to save the Targaryen line. Helaena nods and says “i will, for you are the prince that was promised”.
Then Halaena leaps out the window, the Hightower theme plays. She falls in slow motion as we cut in and out to unnecessary scenes of rhaenyra making out with queen consort mysaria.
Halaena finally hits the ground and cries.
source?
I hate that this is probably how it will go. 😑
I hate chuuuuuuu 😂🤣😭😭😭😭😭
the prince that was promised was jon snow pls don't make sht up
@@shadowgod1797 I mean yeah, but like, it never really amounted to anything in the final season of GoT, and Bran seemed more important than Jon ironically, so....yeah?
I have a friend who recently watched HotD and was very disappointed in the writing of the women. She watched Sopranos for the first time lately and mentioned the female characters on that show not being afraid to have obvious flaws but still come off as strong powerful women and likable like Carmela or Meadow. She couldn't help but compare because HotD dropped the ball so badly. Sarah Hess and several others are so afraid to give any of their female characters flaws that at this point, it's so obvious for everyone to see. Only braindead TikTok/twitter casuals like Rhaneyra being boring bossgirl.
Book Rhaenyra is trash and evil! If she was like that on the show then the show would have ended at season one because nobody wants to watch a show where everyone is evil and unlikeable
its bc braindead fans like u will bash true queen rhaenyra for her faults and celebrate rapist aegon despite the fact that he was more faults than her
Sopranos ruined me, now every TV show I try is just garbage quality in comparison and I refuse to lower my standards
What also pissed me off is in the books Jace is a badass making a bunch of big moves to help turn the tide for his mom like sowing the dragon seeds and getting married to a snow girl in Winterfell (allegedly) so Cregan Stark will side with them, in the show they just made him whine and mope all season 2. Such a character assassination on one of my favourite tardgaryens.
Also they skinny washed Rhaenyra, she is supposed to eat her pain away with each death of a child, I WANT FAT RHAENYRA AND I WANT HER NOW
Jace is Velaryon not Targaryen
@@queenxx1690 I mean if we wanna be specific he is a Strong or a Waters considering he is a bastard
@@StankeyWang Strong in show since they made it so obvious but he would be Waters bookwisebut he is not because he supposed Velaryon even tho everyone know he is not
@@queenxx1690 fair enough, I get what you mean, didn't really matter for context of my og comment but I feel you king
Such a great video, I'm so tired of show watchers thinking that Rhaenyra was just perfect
Same!!! It's frustrating as a book-reader. 😤😤😤
@@thecriticalmaester9702 well books are green propaganda so go cry for rapegon
@@thecriticalmaester9702 Bru, Blood and Cheese was especially ruined by the show because of this 🤕
u didnt have a problem with show rhaenyra in season 1 so why do u suddenly say shes whitewashed in season 2? oh right bc u hate that most people support true queen rhaenyra. bet u that if ppl hated her in season 2, u would hv never made this video to hate on her. pathetic what people do for green rapist propaganda
its bc braindead fans like u will bash true queen rhaenyra for her faults and celebrate rapist aegon despite the fact that he was more faults than her
They whitewashed her so hard they even took some pounds off from her, for a bunch of people who claim representation to be such an important aspect of their work they sure seem to draw the line at obesity..
By the way I do believe there are flaws within the shows version of Rhaenyra however nowadays people have grown accustomed to ignored or even forgive this type of characters traits when outside sources tells them to do so like for example off the top of my head we got:
Rhaenyra forcing herself on Criston Cole, looked at it anyway you'll like but she quite literally kept making moves on him even after he explicitly said "no", he is a lowborn knight who is in debt with her, also he is not the son of a lord but a steward against the daughter of the f King! Even if he "consented" afterwards (which doesnt exist) it doesnt change what she did and the psichological damage she inflicted on him
Btw she seems to have this obssesion forcing herself on others because she does it again when she makes out with Misaria at an actual extremely rather odd moment, do the writters know you dont have to make physical advances to show empathy towards others??
Other traits show Rhaenyra has shown are: asking for the "sharp" interrogation of children, disregard of human life with the dragon seeds, she tried to usurp Drigtmark from the rightful heirs through lying and manipulation, demands the heads of all of Alicents children (curiously too how only her male kids are offered eventhough poor Daeron hasnt even done anything and by all accounts he seems to be an actual good person), she is also a terrible leader who doesnt want her small council to make a move and eventhough she doesnt listen to them she considers herself the best option to rule the Kingdom, im sure im forgetting some others but I kinda also want to clean my mind from what I saw in the serie
its bc braindead fans like u will bash true queen rhaenyra for her faults and celebrate rapist aegon despite the fact that he was more faults than her
What does whitewash mean? xD
@@-_YouMayFind_-Changing a character completely to the point they have no flaws, Rhaenyra in books is willing to do everything for the throne because she believes its her by right, in the show she’s only willing if nobody gets hurt.
As Daemon points out in their argument “A fool that dreams of glory without wanting to spill any blood.”(or something similar).
books are written by green maesters. even in the show, yall hate rhaenyra even tho shes strong and kind and smarter (unlike aegon who lost after losing 1 kid while rhaenyra lost MOST of her sons and newborn visenya and did not fly off in rooks rest like an idiot). yall hate her jus bc shes a women. you d rather support aegon who treats aemond and helaena horribly and who has child fighting pits and even after what he did to dyana, yall would rather support him. u accuse rhaenyra for being bad? well look in the mirror team green, yall believe ur own lies its funny lmao
The thing is, while they definitely want to “whitewash” Rhaenyra, they haven’t actually succeeded. While her attitude is portrayed as benevolent, and pretty music plays in the background while she’s on screen, her actions are arguably worse than in the book.
She’s still shown to do all the selfish, foolish, malicious incompetent things. She insults, bullies and humiliates the lords vying for her hand in marriage (the same lords whom she would need to support her claim in The Dance). Selfishly and recklessly mothers Strong bastards and treasonously pretends they’re legitimate. Encourages and condones her son’s bullying of her brother leading to Luke cutting Aemond’s eye. Recklessly, selfishly and carelessly neglects her duties as heir by running away to Dragonstone. Is still complicit in B&C, even with the changes from the book by allowing her nephew’s assassin walk away unpunished. The list goes on.
They even make her worse in the show by having her murder an innocent man to exile Laenor so she can fornicate with her uncle (imo, she was not responsible for Laenor’s murder in the book). They’re portrayal of the Red Sowing was also far more evil and malicious than described in the book. She basically had them slaughtered against their knowledge and will as a blood sacrifice in the show (in the book, it happens more like how Steffon Darklyn attempts, single file one at a time in order, leave if you’re chickenshit).
She’s not actually benevolent in the show and it’s really toxic and/or inept that shownlies support her. The showrunners have made her the protagonist, so they root for her like programmed npcs.
Then ur argument regurgitates itself . Isnt it your point that Rhaneyra isnt as benevolent as she seems then the show definitely does highlights her flaws even further by making her children obv bastards . By making her marry daemon few days after her ex husband died and lover died . So idk what yall on about .
The point still stands that the greens usurped her throne . Killed her child and although she hesitated at first . She continues on with the war.( even though she doesnt want to destabilise the relam) Thats what makes her a multifaceted complex character. She doesnt just sit on her butt all day doing nothing like in the books and actively takes part . Meanwhile book readers be complaining she did nothing in the war and gets the glory . While simultaneously saying how " evil" she is . If she did nothing throughout the war then how is evil . Like pick an argument lol . Yall want an evil selfish queen who does nothing at the same time
Its all about perception , she had all the rights to be furious at the greens and end them all at once but she didnt because she didnt want innocents to die ( same in the books)
@@PM-od9qm Both can be true. Anyone with a hint of media literacy can tell that the show is attempting to make Rhaenyra out to be the protagonist. Listen to interviews with the show runners and they’ll defend all Rhaenyra’s heinous actions while condemning Aegon II even though the same complexities lie in his actions.
Sara Hess recently said in an interview that Rhaenys slaughtering scores of smallfolk at Aegon II coronation in the Dragonpit and Rhaenyra having dozens massacred in the Red Sowing isn’t bad because “it’s GoT, civilians don’t count.” In another interview (maybe it was the same I can’t remember) she condemned Aegon II hanging the rat catchers… but why is that bad? I thought civilians didn’t count.
It’s not me that can’t pick an argument. It’s them. That’s what I’m trying to point out, their inconsistencies.
There’s a few glaring strawman arguments you made against us “book readers” that require some further correction and explanation.
1. The Greens did not “usurp” Rhaenyra’s throne. The Great Council of 101 AC determined male-only primogeniture by law. This is the law by which their father, Viserys I, claims his own legitimacy, and it was hypocritical for him to ignore it, as it would call into question the legitimacy of his own reign and all the decisions made under it, including naming Rhaenyra heir. This is why the opening prologue of the show was the Great Council. This was less than 3 decades ago, and many of the lords who swore to abide by the decision are still alive during the dance and could equally by considered oathbreathers for siding with the Blacks. I’m more than happy to further elaborate every minute detail of Aegon II’s legitimacy if you would like, but I promise you, the facts are not on Rhaenyra’s side.
2. Both statements that Rhaenyra was inactive and is “evil” (I disagree that book Rhaenyra is evil, but I’ll explain that in the next point) can be true. The Dance takes place over the course of more than a year. While she was inactive at first, the same can’t be said for after she takes King’s Landing. It is true that she is inactive militarily for the whole war (she never directly fights in battle). IMO though, her complete inaction in the beginning of the war is somewhat excusable. She gave birth to a stillborn child, was informed that her father had died and her brother “stole” her crown, and learned that her son was eaten by her other brother’s dragon, all within the course of a few days. I can’t imagine the physical and emotional turmoil she would’ve been going through.
3. While I disagree that Rhaenyra is evil, I do think that she is selfish and incompetent. After taking King’s Landing, her cruelty towards lords (feeding them to dragons in the pit for entertainment and sport), hypocrisy in matters of succession (Driftmark, Stokeworth, etc.), and outrageous tax policies (bastard tax) are all disastrous, but as you said yourself, there are complexities to the situations she was facing, so I wouldn’t say it was “evil.” Let’s not forget about how she’s the one responsible for the deaths of the dragons bringing upon the irrecoverable damage of her house. (Again, I’m happy to delve into the details, this is just already long)
The problem is that all the complexities of these situations aren’t shown in the show. Instead we get this constant self righteousness where she’s portrayed as a victim and everything is everyone else’s fault. Her mistakes are never portrayed as mistakes, it’s someone taking something from her.
Case and point: the fact that you and many other shownlies believe Aegon II “usurped” her throne. It’s very clear that the showrunners are pushing this agenda by the fact that Aemond calls them “usurpers” in the show. What usurper would ever call themselves that? This is not adding complexity and nuisance. It’s dumbing the conflict down to a black and white, protagonist/antagonist, false dichotomy.
I hope you didn’t take any of this the wrong way. I only meant it to be a healthy discussion.
Edit: For the record, while Rhaenyra is called Maegor with teats by the commonfolk, I think she actually more comparable to her grandson Aegon IV, the Unworthy, as his selfish incompetence and poor decisions, bastards, etc. also caused a sibling civil war in the form of 5 Blackfyre Rebellions.
@@E_Reich i have read the book too and it is clear as day that aegon usurped the throne . The greens didnt let the council decide who will inherit the throne ( like how Jaeherys decided to crown Viserys ) they stole it forcefully and hanged or killed those who didnt seem to agree and later killed their child .
Usurping the rightful heir as decreed by the previous monarch and kinslaying is also not favored in the law.
Meanwhile even in the books Rhaenyra said she would pardon them if they bent the knee , similar to the show . She showed themmercy until Lukes death . Even in the show she is flawed as hell, makes impulsive decisions many times even selfish but it is also shown as not as simple and her beliefs and decisions are very nuanced which makes her realistic .
The greens also arent completely evil , unlikable as hell yes the show portrays them on a negative light but thats just how things also happened in the books infact they made many changes to make them seem more humane like Lukes death being an accident , Aegon actually mourning and crying for his son , Aegon being bullied and manipulated and clowned by the entire council . Him being a victim in Rooks rest . Aemond being constantly bullied by Aegon. And Alicent being the voice of reason and trying to stop escalating the situation but being dominated by men around her.
And many book purists again complain that they made the changes even though they also favor the green sides many times because they want the cold inhumane characters like pick a struggle😭
Like yall need to accept , in adaptations things change especially since f&b is an unreliable narration which makes these changes not that bad compared to an actual book . Its just a different perspective on these characters and incidents than described in the books .
Season 2, I absolutely hate her. She's an incredibly entitled person. Self-righteous, petulant, and weak. She's never seen ruling as her duty but as her right. Which for me, makes me dislike her intensely.
Idk why the writers chose to go with the Blacks good/Greens bad narrative. They should try to even out it in season 3 because in this season it nearly ruined the show.
“Nearly ruined” 😂😂 hotd became fanfic the moment they made alicent and rhaenyra “besties” and considering where it went that shit was better if it never left the writers room, not to mention the white heart appearing to her during the hunt, the coronation scene, the writers attributing the overturning of roe v wade to Emma’s death……🙄……, her and daemon killing a guard the same night laenor was killed and it’s as if everyone on driftmark is R E T A R D E D, them making aegon a grapist and as if that wasn’t bad enough he also indulge in fighting pits (WITH CHILDREN) ………..😐 I’m just surprised ( not really) it’s taken this long for people to call out hotd for the mid show that it has been heading for since season 1 ( tho they had some good bits) they have been fumbling since season 1 so I doubt they’ll get a grip on there passions come next season it’s only gonna be more fanfic writing……
Because team green sucks and is evil!! Aegon sucks and so does his team
you always hate and pick on rhaenyra but never aegon who has way more faults and jus say "oh well he was never loved! poor guy" as an excuse
@@Shruti-eh9vrdon’t change the fact that Aegon’s character is better written that Rhaenyra’s.
@@ПатиматРаджабова-ъ2ж aegon’s character wasn’t haha if he was u all would hate on rhaenyra and say “oh she’s not like this in the books” so go cry for ur rapegon
Rhaenyra should have been a mix of Cersei and Dany while Alicent should be like Margery Tyrell from GOT.
Their rivalry was much more interesting in the books than the versions on the show. I don’t even really know what they want on the show - especially Alicent.
Rhaenyra in the show wants to be queen but only if she doesn’t hurt anyone and Alicent has basically given up on her children for no real reason I can understand. It’s a really bizarre way to take the characters - I don’t understand what they are trying to do that is interesting or an improvement.
books are written by green maesters. even in the show, yall hate rhaenyra even tho shes strong and kind and smarter (unlike aegon who lost after losing 1 kid while rhaenyra lost MOST of her sons and newborn visenya and did not fly off in rooks rest like an idiot). yall hate her jus bc shes a women. you d rather support aegon who treats aemond and helaena horribly and who has child fighting pits and even after what he did to dyana, yall would rather support him. u accuse rhaenyra for being bad? well look in the mirror team green, yall believe ur own lies its funny lmao
Rhaenyra in the books was basically a less dumb Cersei with a dragon.
Pretty much, yeah. She was a more cunning version of Cersei. 😅
@@thecriticalmaester9702 and Alicent is basically Margaery with more ruthlessness.
@@ryanandutan2814 Margery was smarter and more manipulative and ambitious. She was truly a great character. Alicent is too..how to say this under-mans-boot character. She is so bland, so subservient so male oriented. Not really exciting to watch. Its like 90% of women like that, always opening ways for men, always submitting to men, always working for men, prasing men, craving their validation and judging other women. She is your typical religous woman next door. Quite sad story of being used by men all her life of course.
@@ryanandutan2814atleast rhaenyra was smart enough to not get herself roasted hahaha aegon flew against meleys lmao he is dumber than cersei haha
@@ryanandutan2814u misogynist
If I adapted the story I'd have whitewashed her a bit for likeability but she'd turn full cruel black queen after Luke is killed. I'd also plant seeds of it before his death so that the transformation is more realistic. Maybe she commands Cole to pleasure against his will (more explicitly) or Viserys hears of their affair and is about to have him executed and she sells him out (but Alicent saves him)...
In the Dance of The Dragons, my favourite characters were Jacaerys and Daeron the Daring.
I hate how in their efforts to give Rhae more storyline they took away from Jace, the dragon seeds storyline showed how Jace was coming into his own as Crown Prince
Jacaerys was ruined too. He had such an important role in the book, and he even had a character arc and growth. I hate that the show cut that out. I hate that they didn't include the whole Winterfell storyline, because that was so important for his character.
@@thecriticalmaester9702 if the writers dont do 180 turn in Season 3. I'll just watch the seaeon 4 reviews honestly, coz they already messed Daeron by excluding Maelor in the Story😒
@@thecriticalmaester9702 What do you think of them completely destroying Alicent Hightowers character?
But guess what? They have time to give baela and rhaena “more to do” even tho daeron does a lot more to do narrative wise and he’s just hung up on the wall in the writers room like - 🧍🏼♂️…………😐, I refuse to take hotd seriously as a contender with game of thrones.
@@youngveteran6368 I'm not watching season 3. It's too painful to see them butcher characters that I love. Especially the Greens. I'm actually enjoying ROP in some ways more and that's sad.
They wanted us so bad to pick a side even though it's not the type of story where you should pick a side , this story should've portrayed two power hungry sides who did everything to win , this story should've been like real life politics ... No one is innocent in this game ... Innocent people only exist in children's stories or fanfiction 💀
its bc braindead fans like u will bash true queen rhaenyra for her faults and celebrate rapist aegon despite the fact that he was more faults than her
Yeah rhaenyra acts more like cersie than Daenerys that's for sure.
She even has a bastard son Joffrey.
It’s just that Cersei is a narcissist rhanerya became much crueler as she lost more of her kids and more people betrayed her
@@ACinemafanatic well even before then she was always spiteful and vindictive it's said when she gets called out for her infidelity she had daemon kill and maim people and had the remains fed to cyrax.
its bc braindead fans like u will bash true queen rhaenyra for her faults and celebrate rapist aegon despite the fact that he was more faults than her
@@apacalypsagon3758 that would be so satisfying to watch, not this weird emotional and weak mess.. like why are they so afriad? i wanna see a true rage
no wonder people liked milly alcock's rhaenyra better. that was more accurate to her book version. rebellious, greyed character. not honorable. while emma darcys rhaenyra is suddenly a saint instead of the younger rhaenyras similar traits but MAGNIFIED into a worse state
The idea that the Maesters wrote the books to favour the greens because they hate the Targaryens in nonsense because the greens themselves are also Targaryens. If anything it is black fans who are biased one which is rooted in the notion that the blacks are Targaryens and greens are Hightowers. Could anything more clearly show the obvious bias of the black fans than their attempt to deny that Aegon II and his siblings are also the blood of the dragon?
The worst thing is, they think rhaenyra is a femist, which she isn't.
its bc braindead fans like u will bash true queen rhaenyra for her faults and celebrate rapist aegon despite the fact that he was more faults than her
books are written by green maesters. even in the show, yall hate rhaenyra even tho shes strong and kind and smarter (unlike aegon who lost after losing 1 kid while rhaenyra lost MOST of her sons and newborn visenya and did not fly off in rooks rest like an idiot). yall hate her jus bc shes a women. you d rather support aegon who treats aemond and helaena horribly and who has child fighting pits and even after what he did to dyana, yall would rather support him. u accuse rhaenyra for being bad? well look in the mirror team green, yall believe ur own lies its funny lmao
@Shruti-eh9vr Mushroom is a black loyalist and his accounts are also in the book are we reading the same book
@@Kerisajustbored i’m not jus talking ab the book. i’m also talking ab the show, where they clearly portray the difference in rhaenyra and aegon’s characters and even after seeing who aegon and aemond are, yall still support them, which says a lot of about what kind of people yall are
@Shruti-eh9vr I don't support aemond and aegon and never will and I said in my comment that rhaenyra isn't a feminist she isn't the only targaryen woman I see in the book is alyssane she had to meeting to see what the problem the women of westeros and setting laws in order to protect the women where as Rhaenyra didn't do any of that and people who are calling out Rhaenyra and the things she did wrong and saying that we hate her because she a women doesn't make sense to me because you can love character and call out the things they did wrong they didn't have much political influence and her father unmind her many times even tho he name her as his heir in public just because he made the house Pledged your loyalty doesn't mean that they actually support her leave to go on dragonstone which was her biggest mistake the dance of the dragon isn't even team black or green it's about the corrupt system of westeros and should men has all the power
It's actually insane how normalized misandry is in movie industry these days. This show with its "women are always peaceful" and "men crave war" messages is just a tip of the iceberg of what we are seeing in other media.
Like in what universe were we supposed to root for Alicent selling out all the men in her family and only sparing Helaena, because she is a girl? The fact that someone wrote this scene, someone else approved it and someone put it together without saying how insane it truly is, is enough to rule how fcked up our society is. And how fcked up it is that hating men is considered normal. The amount of vitriol that this fandom holds towards Criston Cole simply because he refused to be Rhaenyra's s€xtoy is honestly horrifying.
Rhaenyra was whitewashed simply because she is a woman. Just like Alicent was whitewashed simply because she is a woman. And Rhaenys and Mysaria were whitewashed simply because they are women. They are all victims of the patriarchy and the men around them. I came to hate Rhaenys as a character, because she's not really a character. She was there simply as a mouthpiece of the writers to voice and force their 21st century views in medieval fantasy setting. Some things that Rhaenys was saying would never even cross the mind of a medieval woman. She's not a character, she's a caricature.
The sad thing is that if they portrayed the women of the show as the conniving, ruthless manipulators they are, it would actually serve to show a more egalitarian view of women in ASoIaF. Portraying them as both victims of a patriarchal system but also readily playing into it for their own selfish gain would be too nuanced for production studios. Instead we just get women being victims, women being smarter than men yet constantly doubted by them, and men being the cause of basically every conflict in their world.
@@derek96720when misandry and misogyny the unholy alliance 😂
I agree with a lot of what ur saying but I don’t think Criston is hated solely for not wanting to be a sextoy lol, he’s the definition of a man who failed upward despite acting incredibly brashly/stupidly in multiple instances and in ways that should’ve gotten him killed like 3x over, despite being shown to be smart on the battlefield.
@@user-yl2so8db5tCriston was the greatest fighter of his time too. Plus book Ser Criston had some great one liners… “seven save us if we sit a bastard on the iron throne.”
THANK YOU! It's geniunely crazy because you know if a woman refused to be a sex toy of a prince and then talked shit about him people would say that it's "female empowerment" but a man does it and they call him an "incel" like come on...
The writers wanted to show the dance because it fit into their narrative about evil sexist men went to war because they wouldn't want a women on the iron throne.....so they had to whitewash rhaenyra because if they didnt the narrative wouldnt be what they originally wanted, but instead it would give people the idea that while its wrong to go against a ruler because of their gender that maybe rhaenyra shouldn't be queen because she was a horrible choice of a monarch. They do it all for Rhaenyra.
And the show could've touched on the issue of misogyny the way the books did ... Rhaenyra experienced sexism but it also didn't make her a qualified or competent leader. She should be a flawed gray character or anti-hero at LEAST ... but she was made into a one-dimensional "girlboss".
@@lordfreerealestate8302 not just any girlboss but she has been labelled as the chosen one.....I mean they made a fricken animal that whoever sees it shows ur chosen by the gods.........
@@lordfreerealestate8302i think also the error that she wasn’t a competent leader is because her dad didn’t do a good job with her politically since he pretty much tossed her to the wolves the moment he named her heir and he made the inheritance an even bigger mess marrying alicent
@@ACinemafanatic At the end of the day she needs to be a competent ruler, not being taught just makes her more unqualified.
So she shouldn't be queen on that basis alone.
I don't think most people understand this.
@@ACinemafanaticshe also had no interest in being trained to rule. She kept neglecting her duties and skipping out on council meetings. If she had any political acumen, she would have stayed in King’s Landing when Viserys was bedridden and worked to be the regent in the same vein George IV was the regent when George III’s health and sanity were declining. Viserys had no interest in teaching her, and she had no interest in learning. Simple as that.
When a new critics maester video comes out its always a great day
Oh, how that gladdens my heart, your Grace. 😭❤️
@@thecriticalmaester9702 Thank Mr. Maester once again you have another banger of a video that never fails to brighten my day thanks again for being the best team green RUclipsr out there.💚 🫡
You dropped this, my King...👑
@@berserk4souls Why thank you good Ser 👑
braindead fans like u will bash true queen rhaenyra for her faults and celebrate rapist aegon despite the fact that he was more faults than her
They ruined this show. Could have been great too.
@@OurHiltsHurt BASED OPINION.
Took them 2 seasons to ruin the show, as opposed to the 5 it took D&D lol
@@ObsidianKnight217 books are written by green maesters. even in the show, yall hate rhaenyra even tho shes strong and kind and smarter (unlike aegon who lost after losing 1 kid while rhaenyra lost MOST of her sons and newborn visenya and did not fly off in rooks rest like an idiot). yall hate her jus bc shes a women. you d rather support aegon who treats aemond and helaena horribly and who has child fighting pits and even after what he did to dyana, yall would rather support him. u accuse rhaenyra for being bad? well look in the mirror team green, yall believe ur own lies its funny lmao
It could have rehabilitated the disaster that was GOT’s final three seasons. Instead, they grabbed the idiot ball, hard, and doubled down on the stupidity.
@@khfan4life365 no one asked misogynist
The only character that parallels Dany is ironically Nettles. Orphaned, homeless, brave, gained a dragon love and got a clan of people to worship her. The writers are foolish.
I love Nettles as a character but she is definitely not like Daenerys. About the Orphan. Nettles is either Daemon's daughter or his mistress according to the book . Mushroom had the theory Nettles was Dameons lover. On the other side, Norren wrote that Daemon doted upon Nettles "as a man might dote upon his daughter", and described Daemon teaching Nettles common courtesies and giving her fine Gifts.Either way in terms of her having a dragon she has family ties to daemon and the Targaryens. She's probably not an orphan if Daemon is her father. Daenerys bases her entire conquest of Westeros and all her actions on the fact that she is the only legitimate daughter of the last king. Nettles is unfortunately not aristocratic or royal and has sworn her allegiance to others. Daenarys pursued her goals until her death and Nettles simply disappeared after Daemon's death even though the black faction needed her because she had one of the last dragons. Apart from that Nettles was hated by the greens because of her connection to Daemon, the blacks especially Rhaenyra hated her because they couldn't trust her as Dragonseed and the normal population especially in kingslanding saw her as one of the traitorous bastards of the Targaryens (Dragonseeds) and/or the mistress of a mass murderer (Daemon). She herself had no one but Daemon who appreciated her. In contrast to Daenerys, who many adored, but who had no special beloved person. In her childhood , Dany often changed her Home but they had money through the jewelry of her mother, a roof over their heads and she never went hungry or worked for money. She was never really homeless. Nettles had to steal for her money and she really was homeless. Nettles took weeks to tame the Dragon through sheeps and Dany bound herself to the Dragons through magic when she burned herself and she had vague visions who partly showed her how to do that or she was just self destructive when she threw herself in the fire. Every character is unique and you can not compare Rhaenyra to Dany or Dany to Nettles.
@@Cat-mn7mlwell Nettles and Dany were penniless Dany was princess but never lived like princess she had to move one place to another to survive and Nettles lived in streets. Both girls did what other couldn’t Nettles claims wild dragon when other dragon seeds couldn’t do it Dany wakes dragon from the stone when her ancestors couldn’t do it. Also when Drogon runs away he becomes wild and attacks people Dany tames him. Both girls claim wild dragons without anyone’s help. Nettles in the end lives with her dragon and Dany also lives with Drogon they lived beside their dragons. Nettles becomes some kind of goddess for savage clan and Daenerys is now become Mhysa and breaker of chains
@@AlinuraTaskali But the situations are completely opposite. Nettles lived like this in her childhood because she was a bastard. She was never naive and had to get by with theft. She had no one and deliberately tamed a dragon on her own and saved herself from the situation. Daenerys had this childhood because she was a wanted princess. Especially Viserys and other supporters of the Targeryens took care of Dany, that's why she was so naive in the first book. She only got the connection with the drothaki and the dragon eggs because of her status and she didn't hatch the dragons on purpose, it was an extraordinary circumstance. Of course she could tame Drogon, he was not wild, they had a connection like all other dragon riders. Dany does not live with her dragons. They fly around in the wilderness, which doesn't make Dany special compared to all the other dragonriders and their dragons (vaghar/Aemond). Yes, they have both accomplished something incredible but the same can be said about jon and he is nothing like dany. Their ambitions are also completely opposite. Dany's all-important and goal-driving quality is her royal lineage. She wants to claim her birthright. She is a queen and allows herself to be treated as such. Nettles is completely different. She is rather wild, free but has no great ambitions regarding her position.
@@Cat-mn7ml both girls are outcasted Dany is princess who is penniless and powerless while Netles is bastard. GRRM said his most characters is outcasted including Dany. Dany marries Drogo where she at least had someone with her. While Nettles was accepted by Blacks and she lives with Daemon. Dany had Viserys and Nettles also probably had mother but maybe she dies. We don’t know much about her. I am sure there was someone who raised her. While Other Targaryens lived in luxury. When Drogon meets Dany after he run away he attacks people and was even ready to kill Dany. She says if I run he will devour me. He burns her hand and her hair. Also in the book in Adwd it’s said other Valyrians used spell magic to control dragons but Daenerys did it with one word and whip. While Nettles tames wild dragon with sheep. If you look at other Targaryens they had knowledge and experience about dragons. They always had someone to teach them. But both girls never had someone to guide them. When Drogon takes her to Dothraki sea Dany sees where Drogon lived. She eats what Drogon ate and when Drogon burns horse they together starts to eat it. Show me a Targaryen who had the same experience. There were no Targaryens who lived like that. Vhagar wasn’t wild dragon Vhagar had 3 riders before Aemond. For example Silverwing after her rider died she made her lair in Red lake where it’s said she became wild just like Drogon who made his lair in Dothraki sea. Nettles lives with Sheepstealer they also together eat whatever dragon bring. Only two of them lived like this. Other Targaryens literally locked their dragons in Dragon pit. Dany makes the same mistake but when she was with Drogon she accepts fire and blood which she finally realised that It was wrong idea. Dany and Nettles have more common thing when it comes to dragons. Savage clan worshiped her and Dany also forms her own khalasar becomes first woman to do this. She helps slaves and they literally sees her as their mother. Yeah Dany has more thing she needs to accomplish but you can not deny that they don’t have parallels.
@@AlinuraTaskali Viserys II, son of Rhaenyra, lived as a slave in the free cities and grew up there. He had no money and no power. Alysanne and Jaeherys were imprisoned by their uncle during their childhood and had no power and no luxurious life. Even when they freed themselves, they had to live in hiding until Maegor died. Aegon V followed Duncan as an orphan and a commoner. As the 4th son of a 4th son, he was irrelevant for the succession to the throne and had no luxuary while he lived with Duncan. Even if, unlike the others, it was his own decision. Ulf White and Hugh Hammer were both bastards of House Targaryen and lived like Nettles in childhood. The only difference is that they died later. The entire Blackfire Clan lived in hiding. So some of them did. The dragonpit thing was only from the time of maegor. Before that, all dragons lived freely. Even after the construction Vaghar and Balerion lived freely. So it's not unusual. Incidentally, every dragon challenged its rider at the beginning. Even Vaghar with Aemond. As Viserys also said, dragons are free and wild by nature. Even any experience from others is useless, otherwise Rhaena would have a dragon long ago. Thats why Dany wasn't that special with taming Drogon either because he was not wild. He was raised by her and he challenged her like all Targaryen dragons. There are some parallels but they are not special and their ambitions and characters are too different. Btw Nettles mum was a whore and she really had no one. She was homeless. Viserys took care of everything and practically raised Dany. Nettles tamed the Dragon herself but Daemon teached her later unlike Dany. She had someone who helped her. Furthermore most targeryens commanded their dragons with words.
When she ascended the iron throne, the small folks hated her. She was a terrible queen.
Something I hadn't realized about currency advisor Lord Lyman Beesbury. The thing is that, very blind to the probable danger that Daemon and the bastards of Rhaenyra represent, he seems like a dangerously blind or even malicious politician. Then I remembered the case of Saera Targaryen and her main lover Sir Braxton Beesbury whom Jaehaerys I killed with his own hands for disgracing his daughter. This Braxton was the Beesbury heir and since Lyman was a Lord, he concluded that he was Braxton's nephew or something, but what he discovered is revealing. Lord Lyman was born in 49 AD and on the other hand Braxton alias "sting" was born in 65, meaning that Lyman is 16 years older than Braxton, the latter specified that he was the heir and that he had younger brothers but Lord Lyman cannot be his brother. minor because he is 16 years old and the only link I can establish is! Lord Lyman is Braxton Beesbury's father! and actually recent of the Targaryens because Jaehaerys himself liquidated his son and heir. He probably wanted to put the worst Targaryens on the throne, which would be Rhaenyra, Jacaerys and Daemon because he knew they could destroy the work of Jaehaerys I (the murderer of his son Braxton) and destroy the Targaryens from within. All as revenge for the son that the Targaryen king killed. His blindness towards Rhaenyra was never real but he knows that it is disastrous for the Targaryens and he wants that catastrophe to exploit the Targaryens in the worst way.
My problem is shes boring. Im fine with a little whitewashing, same goes for Alicent. Because the book clearly portrays them as the two evil witch’s that tore the realm apart. But they should still have some of the traits from the books. Like blood and cheese make it clear that it was sanctioned by Rhaeynra. It’s an evil act, but we understand it and why she did it. Or instead of a passive Alicent have her slowly turn into this ambitious woman who takes control of her life by being the one whispering in the kings ear.
Ultimately the biggest problem with the show is Alicent and Rhaynera. They’ve been reduced to much less interesting characters, and since their the primary characters it makes the show less interesting.
They'll remove the iron throne spurning her as well
ya bc she IS TRUE QUEEN GO CRY FOR BURNT AEGON HAHA
@@Shruti-eh9vrweird
@@fildanfernanda8729 books are written by green maesters. even in the show, yall hate rhaenyra even tho shes strong and kind and smarter (unlike aegon who went crazy after losing 1 kid while rhaenyra lost MOST of her sons and newborn visenya and did not fly off to rooks rest like an idiot). yall hate her jus bc shes a woman. you d rather support aegon who treats aemond and helaena horribly and who has child fighting pits and even after what he did to dyana, yall would rather support him. u accuse rhaenyra of being bad? well look in the mirror team green, yall believe ur own lies its funny lmao
@@Shruti-eh9vr nah i dont hate strong woman, i just hate bad writing
Daenerys, Cersei, Olenna, Margaery are so much better than Rhaenyra
@@Shruti-eh9vr look at the marketing of HBO itself
"Team Black vs Team Green"
Why would yall mad when someone support for the team that you dont support, what a childish. I like Rhaenyra in season 1 but in season 2 her character is so bland and boring. Imao ironically like Aegon and enjoy Aegon so much meanwhile i know Aegon is a r@p1st but i enjoy him more than saint Rhaenyra bullshit
Rhaenyra in books :I want my throne and i want it now ! daddy promised to me !
Rhaenyra in show :I must win throne God send me to save the World...i mean sit the Throne
@@queenxx1690 realistically if she was keen on securing the 7 kingdoms she would keep the 4 out of the 6 kingdoms sworn to the realm at this time and If she was really REALLY serious she would promise vyserys or aegon iii to a young daughter of house Martel and secure 5 out of the 7 kingdoms, allow the storm lands, and the western lands to be sworn to the green faction where they can use oldtown as a base of operations for there monarchy. And she would have 5 out of 7 kingdoms and 11 dragons to secure the safety of the realm……. But alas she isn’t that sharp
@@youngveteran6368 if she was good politician or just smart she would not spent 10 years on Dragonstone doing nothing
I felt that in season one of the show, the writers don’t really explore why the questionable actions of Rhaenyra are questionable:
- Her rude treatment of the lords vying for her hand in marriage was just a boss girl scene of just humiliating those loser men
- Seducing Criston Cole was an abuse of authority that was not adequately addressed. And the fandom are only willing to give Rhaenyra 2% of the blame here while focusing the rest on Cole.
- The issue of Rhaenyra having bastards and passing them off as trueborn was not thoroughly explored as a bad thing. Instead its framed that Rhaenyra should be allowed to seat her bastards on the throne. Notice how the blacks don’t care that the Strongs are bastards while the evil greens call them out for being so. I’m tired of black fans gaslighting everyone into believing that the Strong boys are not bastards. They argue that Laenor is gay and cannot give children and he accepts them as his sons as do Viserys and Corlys. But why doesn’t Rhaenyra use these arguments herself? I would be more forgiving if she did but doesn’t. She instead insists that they are biologically Laenor's father. And we’re supposed to root and cheer when Viserys defends her and Daemon killing Vaemond when he was clearly in the right.
- Wanting Aemond questioned sharply for where he heard of rumors of the Strong boys bastardy when it’s so obvious they are. And making it a bigger deal than Aemond permanently losing his eye. But Rhaenyra is a loving mother defending her sons against the evil greens.
- “Killing” Laenor. Even, Daemon refused Laena to return to Westeros and him. Rhaenyra and Daemon got married right away but it’s a beautiful moment so let’s ignore the fact they murdered an innocent man and let a couple believe their last child is dead. It’s still wild that the Corlys and Rhaenys still support Rhaenyra But it’s as if to show Rhaenyra won their respect.
I tried to keep this as short as I could
I agree. Cole was forced into an awkward situation by the Princess, and he would’ve suffered consequences from it either way.
It doesn’t matter if Rhaenyra wasn’t going to tell anyone, his position and his oath have been compromised.
How do people like you have such delusional takes on the bastard situation lmfao.
Honestly, what bothers me the most is that for all their attempts to make Rhaenyra more sympathetic, she still commits plenty of selfish, evil acts on the show, but the narrative refuses to call her out for it. She uses Ser Criston Cole, ignores Daemon's evil actions, has multiple children out of wedlock, fakes Ser Laenor's death, and tries to have Aemond tortured, among other things. Team Green does evil things and the narrative shames them for it, Team Black does evil things and the narrative portrays them as heroes.
That’s ultimately what turned me off to Rhaenyra. The narrative (the writers) refusing to call out her bad behavior made her a character I really hate. Instead, they explain away and justify her flaws. God, I hate this character. She’s insufferable.
Im thankful they didn't do this to Cersei's character while GOT was running. We got our cruel manipulative Queen 👸
3 eyed raven is the main character of HBO's "fan" fic, he controls everyone's fate since the Trags left for Dragonstone. Sara Hess is the new Kathleen Kennedy. Season 2 is the new got season 8 season is nothing but filler. "What would you have me do" is the new "she is muh queen, i don't want it".
Crazy thing is Bloodraven wasn't even born yet during the Dance of Dragons, and yet Ryan and Sara still made him a main character. It just shows that the people who are running the show are not even real fans of the books, because how could they not know that. 🙄
@@thecriticalmaester9702i think that's a bit much to claim they made him a main character when all he had was a few second cameo.
As a woman I’m insulted the show runners are trying to compare Rheanyra to Dany. Apples and oranges people. Dany came from nothing even though she was royalty. Rheanyra had a silver spoon in her mouth. Dany would have never sent to have a child murdered because she escaped from assassination as a baby and child. Rheanyra was cut throat in the book and that’s why I liked her chubby ass.
theres this movie called i, tonya where you have the people describing the events and some describe it differently and we see both scenes of the event playout, i wish we had that with house of the dragons so we leave the fans to interpret what really happened instead of seeing a show that says this is what haooened
The thing is, they wanted people to root for Rhaenyra. They cannot do that if they portrat her as evil and uncaring. Thus why they changed her. Since the show is very pro-blacks, they definitely did want to put all the evil on the men and not make women be the mean ones. Here they had the opportunity to blame all that on Daemon and leave Rhaenyra to be kind. In the books she's ruthless the more she goes into war but not really evil. She was spoiled but had a motherly good side as well. So its not like the character didnt have a good side either.
I still remember people hating Helaena and George reaction to that he actually demolished that Rhaenyra was loved by the people, in fact he always calls Aegon and Helaena King and Queen meanwhile he never once called Rhaenyra Queen and he directly said she wasn't loved at all
It’s the main reason why I stopped watching the show.
This video makes me understand Martin more 😂 people said he was being unprofessional with his rants but he wasn't wrong lol
long live king aegon the second of his name .his reign will be remembered as the king who successfully defended his father's throne
@@fearless3405 ALL HAIL KING AEGON II “ THE MAGNANIMOUS”
One person is to blame: Sara Hess
Some of these average hollywoood writers only care about putting their own ideals through these characters. As a result we get flawed inconsistent characters.
I wish we would’ve been able to see the spoiled, feminine, and conniving Rhaenyra from the book. There’s no one like Daenerys. Mysaria would honestly be the closest to her character
What? Mysaria?
@@Male_Ficent I just meant that Mysaria is the only prominent character who has been sold as a slave and is in a foreign land. What he was talking about in the video that makes Rhaenyra so different from Daenerys. But ofc Mysaria could never be Daenerys. No character could
Rhaenyra was still portrayed as a spoiled brat and incompetent ruler but they glossed over her mistakes and act like she is a goddess
HBO House of the dragon is a fanfic
@@rogergonzalez3272 SIMPLE!
this was im talkin about bro, but my friends who didnt read the books they liked the show so much even though it was garbage. ur opinions are valid bro
In their absolute scramble, to paint Rahenyra as this Tragic Saviour figure, and everyone else (Largely men in general) as these war-hungry barbarians that "Only she can keep together" (Rahenys, you killed like 90 peasants, sit down), they ended up making her...boring.
She's just a wet blanket constantly floundering about and trying to "Avoid War" when we're already several battles and bodycounts in.
Raheanyra in the books isn't a saviour, or even that much of a good person, (good daughter and mother TBF) But she is INTERESTING. Because of her flaws. Flaws that, in the show, have to be passed on to others so she isn't stained.
Let her be flawed. Let her sink to her enemies level. Let...bloody hell let some measure of blame fall on the Blacks.
We were robbed of thicc Rhaenyra :(
It’s not an issue for me that they brought the prophecy into the show, that was an interesting twist, but that they used it to wholly justify a narrative that we the audience KNOW didn’t play out that way. It would have been much better if they’d used it to critique rhaenyra, and the entire concept of the prophecy, rather than to make both shows into something they we’re not
A memorable thing they removed from the tv series is in the books its Mysaria who finds and hires Blood and Cheese as well as being the one who gives the son for a son orders if they kept it in this would've gave soemething for Mysaria too do and a reason she becomes Rhaenyras right hand in likee a week if Rhaenyra actually was happy with the death but no it was Daemon everything bad the blacks do is on Daemon.
WE need at least 20 episodes to not rush story in show and develop chracters
Lauren LeFranc who wrote The Penguin should've showrunned this with Ryan Condal because she knew how to write complex/morally grey characters whereas the one they chose for HOTD clearly doesn't
they really tried to fex her but they failed .. they removed maelor to make her look like a nice queen like she didn't order to bring him and led to his worst ending and when king aegon the elder won the confilct . he did not think of himself and kept her son alive ( daemon' s son ) to save the bloodline .. and they let us know that aegon ii had so many bastards and he cheat on his wife like rhaenyra didn't bring shame to the royal family by having bastards three times when she was married and after all of that she tried to let them be kings .. i mean i do not have a problem with rhaenyra in the throne .. i have a problem with bastards in the throne because we are talking about a bloody bloodline here .. if she didn't have true sons like aegon and viserys its okay if jace take it to safe the bloodline .. in the end rhaenyra will be never like daenerys ,, dany is a real queen and i really hope she takes her ancestor's throne .. rhaenyra is nothing but a claimant who aegon defeat her and won the conflict but lost the war .. long live king aegon the second of his name .his reign will be remembered as the king who successfully defended his father's throne
All the show did was make her character boring. I would’ve appreciated her ruthless character the same way I did Cersi before they ruined her too
I feel like the “a song of ice and fire prophecy was a way to white wash her even early on. You can like her as a character, but the writers shouldn’t be removing/ downplaying stuff
Is Alicent version your next video? She was also whitewashed badly
I’ll come to her. My next video is Nettles… 🙌🏾🔥🔥💯
Edit: 9:29. Thats not Rhaenyra. Thats Daenera and Corwyn Corbray. Bro, don't underestimate your audience. We are wise enough to know all the artworks lol
I am now completely convinced that the guy behind the mic is Ewan Mitchell.
Haha 😅
Okay but I gotta point out Dany in the books is motivated by helping people around her, without knowing of any prophecies, if anything she heard of the Azor Ahai prophecy AFTER she completed it.
Other than that yep, HoTD tries to emulate Dany at every turn in their show because she's the reason the show exist. It's sad how the show-runners and writers had F&B to base everything on and people would like it
Thank you for the video!
The writers of this series are writing their own fan fiction. And as George said, the rest of the seasons can only get worse. In fact, it's a shame that such a significant event in asoiaf, like a heartbreaking war between a brother and sister, turned into a lesbian fanfiction written by two clowns
When I read the novella, I loved the blacks and wanted to side with them, but watching house of the dragon. I find myself liking the greens and it’s honestly shocking to me, but I think it’s because I can’t stand Rhaenyra‘s character and she was my favorite in the book
0:17 what? When she was young she was rude, selfish and rebellious. Everyone around her had to follow rules, but since she was the king's daughter and her father allowed it, she literally did whatever she wanted with the only punishment being a reprimand. If others had acted as she did in her youth, they would have been sentenced to death. But her father loved her very much and allowed her everything. I didn't start feeling bad for Rahenyra until she took her role as heiress seriously and started actually acting like one, something that happens literally at the end of season two...
does anybody know the name of the piano song in the background? 🙃
The reason Dany (except for S8), Cersei, Margaery, and Arya are so likeable is because they aren’t perfect and absoluty morally correct ppl, and they don’t intend hide it. Some of them are selfish, power hungry, mean, murderers, and have envy, but on the other hand they’ve redeeming qualities, they are clever, cunning, have empathy and will protect their love ones. That’s what makes them interesting. Book Nyra and book Alicent are the same. But the Rhaenyra potrayed by hbo is “almost” an angel like 😐 to the point she doesn’t encourage you to keep watching how human she is, she’s like a vassel of character who falls victim of everyone around her. “How can’t you be TB?” Well, you can’t not be TB bc everything pushes you to be Team Rhaenyra no matter what, and don’t get me wrong I know she’s the rightful heir, but the show lacks soul bc of the simple fact that everything has to make Rhaenyra look “unrealistic pure”
The funny thing about the writers who say the book is biased is that they themselves are biased
I wonder what they’ll change for The Hedge Knight.. 🤔
Literally both side is horrible atleast in the books and that what make me like it, Its so much more complex and i love it.
I think they were just afraid of cancel culture, if they made her less than a 2024 American perfect woman model
If they really wanted to do a proper feminist show, they should have done a show on Nymeria and the Rhyonar. No. They just want to whitewash females in House of the Dragon and make dragon battles.
Nice analysis. It feels like the show's creators are trying to atone for turning Daenerys into a crazy villain by making Rhaenyra more heroic and noble than she should be. Rhaenyra feels like an apology to the female fans who admired Dany. (I still think she's well written; they've not turned her into an infallible girlboss. But they have clearly made her the protagonist.)
Yes I was just saying they made Rhaenyra pu**y in the show I hate it! I was team black in the books because she was ruthless & ambitious & willing to do what she had to do to get her throne. & she was the named heir & the lords of the realm swore fealty to her. That’s all she needed for me but the show version is too hesitant & it makes her look weak. I rolled my eyes so hard at her sneaking into KL to talk to Alicent after kids have been murdered 🤦🏾♀️
The answer is a bias against men. The female characters are being made into flawless paragons and martyrs.
We need to just admit it and if we want the show to improve. We need to point out its real issues.
There are almost no decent male characters in this show, and the morally gray men are made much worse than they are in the books.
This has nothing to do with Dany.
Who gives a flying f about Vaemond's fate honestly.
Daenerys and Rhaenyra are like opposite of each other in character in books
Rhaenyra is Macbeth but so is Aegon the elder...
this show could have had so much more intrigue and divided fan base if they had just wrote Rhaenyra and Alicent true to the book
Okay I’m so sorry but if this is the case I wanna see you make a video essay on every other character because they do this..with everyone else as well. Same thing with game of thrones in my opinion 😭 they switch up and take out so many things.
It should also be noted that Matilda wasn’t warmly welcomed to England because she lived in Germany and had no connection to the people, while Stephen, her rival, did live in England and made bonds and connections to the people.
What is the end song credit ?
I see your point but I’m not sure whitewashing is the right term
It is. 😅
@@thecriticalmaester9702 then it must be because I mostly heard it as a race swapping thing, sorry for the confusion.
Such a good critique of her character
Thank you.
Ideology ruins everything.
Grrm writes in a way you are able to figure out what is true
It's absolutely mad that the showrunners think that Rhaenyra and Daenerys, with two completely different starting points, could come out the same and want the Iron Throne for the same reasons.
Alot of rulers didn't gain power from being nice, why couldn't these people let her be cruel and selfish from time to time, it would've made her more interesting
I agree. But I think they might do that in future seasons as she descends into evilness... there has to be a motive to have Ulf and Hugh do what they do.
@@Alejojojo6 I hope so
I am almost sure that the writers intend to end the series with her winning the Iron Throne.
The more they try to make me "like" Rhaenyra, the less I actually like her. They've done her a massive disservice.
it sad that i lost all my passion towards the series . due the writers queer - average writing .
She is the main character, she is in the right side.