2022 - Running a mainframe on your laptop for fun and profit
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 23 июл 2022
- media.ccc.de/v/mch2022-126-ru...
Yes, this talk is about running your own mainframe on your own hardware. Mainframes are old, yes, but they are still very much alive. New hardware is still being developed and there are a lot of fresh jobs in this area too. A lot of mainframes run COBOL workloads. COBOL is far from a dead language. It processes an estimated 85% of all business transactions, and 5 billion lines of new COBOL code are written every year. In this session the speaker will help you in take your first steps towards running your own mainframe. If you like then after this session you can continue to build your knowledge of mainframe systems using the links provided during the talk. Come on in and learn the basics of a completely different computer system! And it will take you less than an hour to do that!
Yes, this talk is about running your own mainframe on your own hardware. Mainframes are old, yes, but they are still very much alive. New hardware is still being developed and there are a lot of fresh jobs in this area too. A lot of mainframes run COBOL workloads. COBOL is far from a dead language. It processes an estimated 85% of all business transactions, and 5 billion lines of new COBOL code are written every year. In this session the speaker will help you in take your first steps towards running your own mainframe. If you like then after this session you can continue to build your knowledge of mainframe systems using the links provided during the talk. Come on in and learn the basics of a completely different computer system! And it will take you less than an hour to do that!
Jeroen Baten
program.mch2022.org/mch2022/t...
#mch2022 #MCH2022Curatedcontent
Great talk, I am a retired mainframe software engineer. The operating system you demonstrated on is MVS 3.8 which was current in the mid 80's, in fact the put level of the software was 8505. This might have been the last release of MVS before MVS/XA which you mentioned which extended the address spaces from 16M to 2G. The latest releases of zOS (last time a checked) do run on the Hercules emulator which is no toy. I know of a company (over 20 years ago) which used Hercules for a few months before they could acquire a Z800 mainframe.
MVS 3.8 was current in the 70, that's when I started with in. It was succeeded by MVS/SP I and then II, those were not free. XA came in the 80s.
Thanks SO MUCH for reminding me just how far we've come with computers & user-friendliness! How I functioned back then, I can't believe.
There's also the "Michigan Terminal System" (MTS) which was developed by a consortium of Universities. It multuser timesharing system which was *mostly* open-source and developed and in production into the mid-1990's. It could support a few hundred users at the same time, given a big enough mainframe. I know some of my friends are still running it on top of Hercules.
Thanks for the talk. I hope to come back to check out Hercules sometime soon!
I demoed that to one of my old math teachers who studied at UMich just to give him some heebie jeebies. ;-) What I really wish is that we could legit run OpenGenera on our laptops.
Hi Jeroen, great speech! Great to see that hercules-390 is still in use!
Fujitsu still sells mainframes, but have announced end-dates for sales and support
Very cool talk.
From my point of view mainframes are transactions crunchers, simple throughput number corners are supercomputers.
DASD = Direct Access Storage Device, not "attached".
Thanks! Will verify and correct my slides.
And we pronounced it "DAZ-dee".
Dave Plummer (Daves Garage) has a video where he visits IBM's manufacturing plant. I highly recommend it.
Great talk - thankyou. Mainframes are alive and well. Banking, automotive design & manufacturing, any large business with large databases - they all have mainframes. And the pay is much higher than for PC programmers because of scarcity.
Don't forget insurance. 😁
@@Gumbier_Than and government.
holy shit, I've not seen those screens since 1996 haha
Great presentation
MVS380, VSE380, and VM380 is available, partitions V=R memory between the 16M and 2G line.
TCP/IP is scheduled to be included in TK5 Update2 by Jan 2024.
Intercomm (cics clone) is now included.
I ran some Fortran programs on an IBM 360 and 370 back in the day. I also did a little bit of programming in assembler for the machines. I still have the book on IBM 360 Assembler language. It could be fun seeing if Hercules could be used to run some old programs.
From the Moshix RUclips videos I've seen, the answer would be "Yes". The turnkey system shown in this video is provided with a number of compilers and sample programs.
Good times man…! Tracing down operations in their registers….
I tried. Maybe I'm not worth my salt but I couldn't get any COBOL to run in Hercules. 😅
Datasets are files, and users create their own more often that using those created by others, system datasets excepted.
DASD aren't necessarily hard disks, emulated or real. There used to be drums, real and emulated.
The mainframe is great for many reasons, but why do its cheerleaders always need to do phallus sizing comparisons, especially when there's a lot of fancy hardware beyond IBM's moat. A Z16 Telum four drawer systems is (physically) 32 compute processors, with 256 cores and 512 threads with a max of 40TB of RAM. Which is fine, especially since their IPC throughput is impressive and raw clocks are high, but if brute compute bragging rights is what you're about, then commodity x86 (in specialized form) can easily beat mainframe hardware. You can get a shared-memory modular NUMA chassis Bullsequana-SH320 that will scale up to 32 sockets (2 sockets by 16 modules connected via 2x UPI at 11.2 GTs, or 166 GBs) at 60 Sapphire Rapids cores per socket for a total 1920 cache coherent Golden Cove cores and 3840 threads (logical processors) with 128TB of RAM (all accessible from a single OS instance), which dwarfs the Z16. And again, this is in a single shared memory system that can also support 32 GPUs. Love or hate Intel, but Golden Cove cores are exceedingly powerful, comparable with Telum IPC at 6 decode, 10 issue, versus Golden Cove at 6 decode, 12 issue. A 32 socket, 1920 core Sapphire Rapids system is one hell of a monster.
However, Telum has an obvious advantage in clock speed and a highly sophisticated inter-processor shared caching architecture. Telum also features interesting shared on-die inference accelerators that are especially well suited for certain types of overlay transaction analysis, actions that would be much harder to implement (from a code perspective) on Golden Cove cores, using per-core SIMD. But the REAL reason you buy a mainframe is for unmatched hardware and software integrated fault tolerance, resilience, IO interconnect and partitioning capabilities. While the commodity world has virtualization and containerization, it doesn't have anything nearly as sophisticated or configurable as LPAR's. With firmware support, the ability to carve out and configure resources for LPAR use (with firmware level dispatching and specialized support processors) is unmatched. Furthermore, this is all backed by in-frame processor level fault recovery with processor spares, ICF's for sysplex fault tolerance, etc., which simply doesn't exist outside the mainframe world. And it's all tightly coupled in a very expensive, vertically integrated stack of hardware and software. You pay for a mainframe because, as the old saying goes, nobody ever got shot for buying IBM. The mainframe world doesn't talk about four versus five nines, they talk in terms of cash reimbursements from IBM if ADP's payroll operations are impacted by a failure.
So no, I don't think anyone should be talking about the mainframe because it's the biggest or baddest of computers (the most powerful shared memory computers are not mainframes). The mainframe is impressive because it's designed to run 24/7 and never, ever, fail in its intended purpose.
And here I was thinking that mainframes are the top in throughput. OTOH I have no idea how they compare to this very impressive sounding hardware list. Thank God I always start with a disclaimer that I am not a mainframe export and definitely do not consider myself a cheerleader. For one, I have no pom poms....
"You stick that into a token ring hub, which you have laying around, as one does." LMAO.
Well, if you _do_ have a token hub, it will be "just laying around"... there's no way you'd still be using it. (I've seen plenty of token ring gear. And yes, it's just gathering dust on a shelf.)
Always loved the days when the token got lost... on an AS/400-based token ring network.
@@nathanmeans1548 - lol, good times. 4 or . .. . wait for it. .. 16MEGAbytes? :D
Guess need to breakout my old CICS Copy Books
Kicks For Tso is installable.
Can I suggest simh as an excellent mainframe emulator? I have a DEC-10 and a PDP-8 permanently running as background jobs. I telnet in from time to time.
I found one mainframe in its supported computer systems, and it's not from IBM. Everything is minicomputers, perhaps microcomputers - I didn't check the iNtel folder. DEC did not make mainframes, IBM and The Bunch did. And Fujitsu, Hitachi, NEC - possibly clones with extensions.
Does it have an option for CICS and vsam db2
Where is the disco-ball???
That was my first thought 😊
Is there a version of Cobol-85 available?
Unfortunately no. Not even 74. Stuck with 68.
Actual TSO and CICS are different frontends running on top of OS/390.
Or OS and its successors. Both ran on S/360.
z/OS i think was 60gb of DASD images and somewhat old. You arent supposed to have it without the mainframe tho. :P
In a way, so was VMS, but DEC sent me a copy by mistake. (complete with a license, as I recall) It's a huge stack of CDs, but I have a "white" alpha, so it won't boot. (those were designed for Windows NT.)
@@jfbeam cool :D you kept them?
@@CodeAsmTechnically. Yes. If you'd asked 20 years ago, I'd know what corner to point to. These days, who knows what box they're in... and where that box is. The little box with the Tru64 discs should be with it. (that's like half a dozen CDs.) Solaris and Oracle? I know where those are. 🙂
(It was a much different world back then. $5 for everything Oracle had. $10 for a boxed Solaris set. $49 for Tru64, and they sent a complete copy of VMS, too. SCO was free.)
@@CodeAsm I found Tru64 (5.0), SCO, and BeOS. Still looking for VMS. From the waybill it's OpenVMS.
@@jfbeam i wish i or my dad ordered those for now fun. Ow well hehe. Youll find them someday maybe. I love the old 8bit machines my dad gave me. He isnt into them anymore anyway. Cant safe everything tho, space. I might end up with similiar boxes, with unkown contents 🤭
5:31
The tragedy of LSD overdose.
WHERE IS THE FUN AND PROFIT??????? VERY TIME CONSUMING AND DIFFICULT
TO LEARN. I WAS A COLLEGE TEACHER AND IT TOOK YEARS TO PRODUCE'
GOOD IBM PROGRAMMERS MIN 2YEARS AT COMMUNITY COLLEGE.
AT 4 YEAR COLLEGES THEY WOULD STRETCH IT OUT TO 4 YEARS!!!!
IT WAS NOT VERY MUCH FUN FOR STUDENTS???
Extremely odd.
“The Dutch speak very well English”.
Ffs…
In the Netherlands, the English language can be spoken by the vast majority of the population, with estimates of English proficiency reaching 90%[1] to 93%[2] of the Dutch population. (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_in_the_Netherlands). And I KNOW I'm NOT a native speaker.
@@JeroenBaten The professor was referring to your unusual grammar.
Nothing more telling than showing up in ugly shorts for "your 15 min of fame"!
You clearly weren't there at the MCH event.