AVOID THESE MISTAKES WHEN ORDERING KIESEL GUITARS...
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- Опубликовано: 15 июл 2024
- Today's video we cover some common "mistakes" people can make within their custom kiesel guitar orders. These are all based on my personal experience so hope you all find this information useful!
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I like how the premise implies you can be a beginner and a pro at ordering Kiesel guitars. That's definitely something xD
Now I just need to get the money for the guitar
Gotta save up some dough! Lol
My Kiesel Aries arrived about 2 months ago. I had a translucent blackburst edge on a quilted aqua maple top. Flock switched the blackburst to a thinner edge so that more of the top could be seen. Glad he did; I didn't even think of that.
yes! makes a huge difference! That was a great recommendation for sure!
Flock is honestly great, answered all of my questions when I called in. Actual professional
Calling in is a must. The feedback helps avoid many other possible mistakes as well. The team has definitely steered me in the right direction and away from a bad decision.
Absolutely
SUPER helpful, thank you!
Thanks for checking it out! 😀 glad it was helpful
Great video and very accurate. 14 builds in and there's a lot I wish I'd known when I ordered my first. Great tips for first time buyers!
Thank you bro! Yeah I really wish I had seen a video like this years ago I could have probably saves myself some money haha glad to help pass on some wisdom to anyone just starting out!
Lol.....I've never built one from them and I knew all of this. You people need to do research
my biggest mistake is going with options i liked the idea of but didnt have experience with. I tried multiscales instores and liked them but using one all the time i could just never get used to. and my muscle memory never caught up and everything was just off. 2nd mistake was going with the lightspeed body shape, the neck was maple and still had insane neck dive and because of the body shape even in classical it wouldnt sit right on my knee. After i went went a aries with 27" like im used to and it has been my #1 guitar since and the lightspeed hasnt seen the light of day
All solid advice! Thanks
Glad it was helpful!
I used to like the satin maple kind of necks way back before I got my first Pro Line Warwick bass. After I had been playing that Ovangkol/Wenge neck a while I just couldn't go back to playing smooth feeling necks. Like you said though, it's a very subjective thing. The thing I hate the most are highly polished lacquered neck. I have some vintage guitars and basses that have it, but most of them are played enough to give them a bit of rougher texture. I'm glad that satin finished necks have become the de facto standard in modern guitars.
Super helpful information. Part of my hesitation of ordering a Kiesel is just how overwhelming the options are. This first hand experience helps me narrow down my options. Thanks for sharing.
Glad it was helpful 🙂 thx for watching
Ah it's really not overwhelming, it's pretty straight forward
Calling (or visiting) is the best and most important tip. Many folks dont k now they have a show room. If you live in San Diego.
I agree completely about textured necks. I got a 3-piece tung-oiled maple neck on my Delos and it's awesome. I'm never getting a guitar with a gloss neck again. I also found out the hard way about satin finishes. I hope this video gets some play because it will help people save money and get the most out of their builds.
yup! I think this is often overlooked! It's easy to pick something based on looks, but most importantly it has to feel comfortable and smooth!
My first build was an Osiris and I got antique ash with a flamed top and trans pink finish. Only a couple of things I would redo, 1) getting rear natural clear with no antique ash, and I would’ve changed the pickup color to cream to match my Birds Eye maple fret board.
I just ordered my second build and I put it in with Flock who really took care of me. A2 8 string with the textured splatter finish
I recommend the multi scale option. I own ten Kiesels and my last 3 were multi scale. I just don’t play the others as much anymore because of the fretboard.
Agreed love my OM6 🙂
I’ve only built one Kiesel and I regret selling it. Had a Walnut/maple/walnut neck with a Birds Eye maple board. Not only did it look incredible but the feel and stability was incredible. Can’t recommend walnut enough.
Walnut is so amazing! It's definitely become my favorite neck wood. Thx for watching
Thankfully I didn't make any of these mistakes when I ordered my Kiesel in 2020, but damn I almost made a few of them! Good video man.
Haha glad you liked the video! Yes I have learned from past mistakes! Lol
Great video. Gotta add though I have an all black limba aries with a floyd and it's not heavy. Definitely lighter than I expected.
Appreciate it! Yeah I suppose every piece is a little different. That's good to hear. Mine definitely ended up being a bit heavier than expected. The top wood is also heavier than most others as well. Just glad I went with a chambered headless otherwise it'd be probably another pound haha
@@TopShelfGear totally. My friend has a Delos, swamp ash body and that's kinda weighty. I was confused because Jeff is always saying swamp ash is lightest. Great guitar regardless.
I don't think I'd call any of these a "mistake."
It's all good advice though, that a lot of people just won't realize when ordering. Especially when choosing body wood.
When I ordered mine, I knew exactly what I wanted, so didn't call the guys. But one of the guys called me! They actually had a question about one of my spec choices.
I went with a DC800. Swamp ash body, maple neck with dual walnut stripes, ebony fretboard, stainless frets, satin metallic grey finish, with satin clear neck.
In hindsight, I should have gone with the gloss metallic grey. As you said, the satin finish tends to "polish" in the high wear areas.
Absolutely! I massively regret getting satin on that aquaburst. Wish I had gone gloss. I hope this videos helps people make choices that result in their desired outcomes with builds. Of course all comes down to personal preference 🙂 thx for watching
@3:55 What causes chatoyancy in wood?
What is Chatoyance Wood? | Woodworkers Guild of America ...
One cause of chatoyance is the tree being under stress as it grows, causing the grain to curl back on itself. This results in an effect that basically looks like waves within the wood. This is an amazing and beautiful 3D look that changes as you look at the wood from different angles.
Beautiful explanation thank you for watching
Cool video, but I love my satin finish on my flame maple Vader. For me, it's a feel thing.
Still looks great 🙂
I don’t know if I’d call this a “mistake” but one thing I think people don’t keep in mind is how the choices you make might impact resell value down the line. Generally speaking it seems builds that have “standard” options and finishes that aren’t too out there will be easier to potentially sell down the road. Granted everyone generally thinks that when they’re buying a guitar they’re going to keep it forever, but it is something that is worth considering imo.
Strong point! I was actually planning on doing a separate video on resale value. Of course we all know things depreciate but I feel like with kiesel often it's because people pick obscure options. For example diamond inlays. I personally can't stand the look so right away used I'd buy any other inlay but that lol same thing with odd colors that just don't appeal to as many people
Great point. I've had over 100 guitars that I swore I'd never sell. Maybe 6 left that have stood the test of time; our tastes change as we get older. Still buying and selling though 45 years later!
Should've saw this video before I ordered a black limba DC600:) I did order a walnut, extra thick Delos, and didn't think it was heavier (no noticeable neck dive either)
Neckthrough walnut/BL that sounds like a pretty hefty guitar! I'm sure it's beautiful though 🙂
I like Kiesel because they fully support headless guitars, and I think the Hipshot hardware works really well. I have ordered several, but ended up selling them because I just couldn't get used to the neck shapes- they say it's a "C" but it feels more like a "D" to me, and I was always fighting with the shoulder. I have a couple of Andersons, and the necks feel so much better in my hand.
I'm surprised to hear that actually, I always order the "thinner" profile and while it's not crazy flat thin like an ibanez it's still pretty comfortable.
what do you think about no paint raw tone 3 piece swamp ash? this has always been my wishlist build. budget obviously, i just dont care for colorful paints or black/white. I think a wood tone guitar would just be so great. but unless you pay extra for a solid piece ash, they give you a 3 piece which will show the small lines where they are glued togther. I wonder how bad that would be.
Raw tone finished Swamp ash I would always go 1 piece body. If going with gloss, upgraded top wood, colorful finish perhaps not as much if a concern with multi piece on the back of the body
Do u have any electric models from keisel that u feel would be a mistake to order?
Also a thing for a video that I think u could do that would be cool is doing a video where people send through their kiesel builds and u give like recommendations and what u would do differently and like a rating or something, idk think it could be a cool series or something just a recommendation.
I would say yes depending on what a persons expectation is for the guitar. For example myself I like a guitar that's lighter weight with a smaller form factor so when it comes to a body shape so a model that's larger like a DC600 wouldn't be a good fit. (can always reference advertised dimensions on the kiesel site)
That's a great idea! I would definitely be open to that. Awesome suggestion :)
did not know black limba was heavy, dont know why i thought that was a light wood like basswood. Great vid.
Oh yeah it definitely can be. It's obviously a beautiful wood but it can be a little hefty. If your going with a headless I wouldn't be too concerned.
Me either. One of my lightest guitars has a black limba body. It's not chambered or anything either.
Ngl I like how dark the satin finishes are, I often find kiesel’s a little too bright in gloss
All good I do think certain builds satin definitely works 🙂
@@TopShelfGear I mean I’m still planning on getting a gloss white kiesel with a cool splatter but their coloured tops are certifiably insane 🤘
The biggest mistake is when you do an option 50 and you aren't 100% sure what you are asking for. And then, you think Kiesel didn't make what you asked for and you demand the guitar to be returnable. And when they refuse, trying to go to social media to fight Jeff Kiesel on it personally.
I can understand people have high expectations for something "custom" but when making very specific one-off requests that may or may not have been done before customers need to understand those types of builds are not going to be returnable. This is also fully disclosed on your quote before ordering. There is absolutely no reason people need to be fighting on social media over things like this.
I'd also mention to be aware of the deep stain finishes. They are much darker than the pictures. If you are on stage or in front of bright light, they are spectacular, but inside or normal lighting, the underfinish is fairly obscured. It's not bad in any way, but you need to be aware of it.
great point! yeah I have heard guys talk about that in the fb groups. Thanks for your input!
nice one
I ordered a flamed maple top with a purple satin matte finish and they accidentally did a gloss finish instead. I was not happy with the finish because with the money I spent on the order it should have been done right. Well after a little time and input from others I actually like the gloss finish better due to how well the flame top pops.
100% gloss is the way to go especially on translucent purple flame maple. Not that satin wouldn't look good it just doesn't have that "pop" 😀 they do charge $50 for gloss now so think of it as you got a free upgrade 😉
What did kiesel do for you for screwing up?
@@mariuszsyposz918 they told me that I could send it back and have another one made the way I ordered it. I started to get used to the gloss finish so I asked for some swag instead and they said no problem.
Very good insights and summary! :) One thing: string count! Do one really need the 7 strings for exapmle? It could be very temping to "try out", but in the end I personally don't use it that much and since the guitar is too beautiful don't want to sell it off. :) Ended up using mostly as a 6 string guitar and the 7th is usually kind of "in the way". However very rarely it comes handyt when I want to play along some 7 sting guitar based songs.
Great point! As a 6 string player I could understand how that extra string could be overwhelming haha
7 and 8 string guitars are different instruments. That is the part you and I have learned the hard way. I have found that I like baritone 6 strings or 26.5 length 7 strings. I dont like the 27 and 28 inch 7 strings. Its arguable if you really need any extra length on a 7. An interesting choice is the 26.5 inch 6 string. Very versatile.
@oldgoattheantichrist3468 very good point. Same here I prefer a baritone or multi scale 6 string. I have decent sized hands and always felt 7 strings were a little wide for my taste. I'll be doing a separate video on this topic as well.
I think you just answered your own question
There are "off-menu" options? Like an In-N-Out burger?
There seems to be a few videos about problems with customer service. Not that a custom guitar is on my list of Things To Do, but if it were, I'd rather it be with a company that stands behind its work, not just somewhere beside it.
Yeah, there are quite a few special options that a person would need to call in, for example, custom finishes, custom electronics, exotic woods, etc.
You'll always find that in every industry, there will be customers that are never going to be satisfied no matter how above and beyond a company goes to work with them. Selling around 4k guitars a year it is very possible for there could be a small percentage of mistakes as with any guitar brand. Just because some people post negative videos complaining doesn't necessarily provide an accurate reflection of the brand. Often times the people complaining are mad because they picked some "one-off" color that had never been done before. Even though its clear upfront that that option is non returnable, some people just want to throw a fit online for attention.
Keep in mind there is a very active kiesel fb group with over 25k people who enjoy their guitars without problems. I'd suggest trying one out yourself before letting others' negativity stop you from enjoying a custom build 😉
Didn’t know about the thin black burst edges, will have to ask about that on my next built. I would also add that when it comes to translucent colors on the builder the real guitar always comes out much darker. I wish they’d fix that because some color options I pass up on because they look so bad in the builder and then I see someone with a real guitar that has that color option and it looks sick.
Totally feel you on the darker colors, same thing happened to me on that satin aquaburst Osiris I had. Great guitar obviously but that was always something I wished it was brighter.
Mark spent years and years emphasizing the giant advantages of quarter sawn hard rock maple necks, mainly their stability, and also offering stripes like walnut, etc. for them too. Jeff came along and did this as well. Jeff spent years talking about how their gloss is the best in the industry - zero stickiness, etc. Now it's walnut necks without gloss? Amazing. Back then he would caution us about neck dive for such a choice, not to mention the wear that happens on finishes other than gloss.
A ton of super-dedicated users of the bulletin board on their website (BBS) carefully curated the kind of information you are providing over a period of more than a decade. Later they made radical changes and a series of suggestions of the kind of choices you emphasize, while starting to call us "legacy buyers". Then a couple of years later they killed off the BBS. We will see if Zak eventually takes over, calls those who are today's younger buyers a derogatory name, and does something odd like eliminating any and all automatically included features, and base prices for each model. Time will tell. Coming back to this vid in 2034 or later will be interesting.
Here are my suggested mistakes to avoid when buying from them: 1) thinking that the builder and its options are the only options available, and that the ones they show are accurate and complete; 2) not asking if the instrument is returnable; 3) failing to put your ideas up on their social media to see what the dedicated buyers and players have to say or suggest; and finally 4) failing to order what you would if you were brave, and playing it safe, rather than taking advantage of the 10 day trial period and always regretting playing it too safe.
I'd say Mark and Jeff have done a fine job with their innovations. I agree the quartersawn necks were a huge improvement. From what I can tell they were early adopters of carbon fiber reinforced necks. We've all seen many big names implement this as well.
I'd also agree that Kiesel does in fact have some of the best looking gloss I've seen comparing to all the other high end brands. I really see no issue with that being an upcharge as it's more of a time consuming process. I don't personally see why anyone would want a gloss neck but to each their own. Walnut has been my personal favorite as it just has such a nice smooth feel.
I can't speak to the BBS you are referring to, perhaps that was during the Carvin days. The current resources available with their weekly live FAQs and so many knowledgeable people in the Kiesel FB groups are quite helpful though.
I always recommend calling the sales guys for the best experience. It's going to be stated on the builder or email quote if the guitar comes with a 10 day trial so there should be no confusion there. I do agree it's good to be somewhat "brave" or adventurous with options so you end up with something a little more interesting. :)
@@TopShelfGear Good points. The BBS was kept alive for the first few Kiesel years. PS: in 2012 I got a solid walnut body, claro walnut top, neck-through bass with a walnut neck and 2 maple stripes. It's heavy, but I knew it would be. The 3-piece body I got on that bass is a maple layer that's a few millimeters thick (not a thin black synthetic line). Birds eye maple unlined fretless board with hard as nails finish. I did the brave thing on that one, not returnable, but the final bits of advice on the specs came from the OG crew members on the BBS. :)
You were extra brave on that bass for sure! lol my shoulder would be dying in pain if I did that haha. I can imagine that's a beautiful instrument! A good friend of mine (who got me into Carvin/Kiesel about 10 years ago) has a Carvin Icon 5 string. Its a walnut body/neckthrough that he still gigs. A little heavy but looks really cool. He's also been playing more headless as well. That does sound like a cool resource from back then.
@@TopShelfGear LOL!!! Beautiful is right.
👌
Hey man, I want to order a Kiesel myself, is there anyway I could ask you a couple questions before I order?
Sure hmu on IG @savagepandaprojects
What if the weight of a guitar has the weight of a traditional Gibson Les Paul but it still sounds great, plays well, and looks good anyway?
Do you reject it out of hand because of the weight?
Might not necessarily reject it, perhaps not pick it up and play as often lol 😆
Depends how much you value your shoulder and back health
It was never a problem for me. Of course I ran and lifted weights.
Yeah, great to stay in shape, but unfortunately, all the fitness in the world won't fix the awful Gibson headstock angle 😂
Funny, of course I owned Dr a Gibson for over 50 years and that was never.a problem. Never had to replace the headstock or the neck. I suppose you just need to know how to care for your guitar.
Upper body exercise will solve the weight problem!
definitely great to make some gains yo! I still love headless for best ergonomics
@@TopShelfGear I want a Steinberger...but cautious on the plunge.
I think those are the more square bodied headless? I know there is also Stranberg. Lot's of people like them too. For me I just dont care for that unique endur shape neck thats like a trapezoid. Super expensive too for being Indonesian made.
My only regert... was I should have changed to the thin neck. I said regert...
Ahhhhh man gotta go thin
Here's another mistake: watching JK pitch the "try it, don't like it, u got 10 days, return it" policy on the Wednesday Live's and believing it. He leaves out the permanently banning customers from ever purchasing again for "returning 4 guitars in one year" part after they already kept 2 Kiesels. That's the Kiesel "Family" Paradigm mentioned on the invoice, apparently.
@JoeyRapps1 or maybe just accept that buying a custom guitar in mant cases is not returnable? If I owned a custom guitar brand and some dude ordered 4 guitars and returned all of them in a year I'd part ways with them too. The purpose is to sell guitars not running a rent a center here.
@@TopShelfGear I should've expected that response from someone doing free advertising for them. U got jokes? How is 10 days (they were out my door quicker than that) and the customer paying for the return shipping and insurance across the country, on top of the original shipping cost, a "rent-a-center", exactly? Everything went back in the condition they sent them. (The 4th and final one, a repair, arrived with the finish damaged bc they forgot to place the foam under the headless Hipshot trem) Then they "In Stock" sold them to ppl who had the advantage of seeing them built already for maybe $10 less than I paid (but they charged more for shipping on "In Stocks" than new builds). In certain cases, they reset the price higher on the "In Stock" sale if I bought them on a holiday promotion. Kiesel enjoys the upside of having the return policy so they can direct more business to themselves as opposed to other SEMI-custom guitar companies but they don't want to deal with the downside of Buy To Try. Andy James alluded to this factor of the Kiesel business model being a part of his decision to not renew his endorsement contract. You skipped over the hypocrisy of the JK sales pitch mantra as it didn't fit with your adoration of a business that you're unwittingly working for. (Or ARE YOU a paid agent?) If that is their outlook, then it should be posted on their website, but that will NEVER happen because it would scare away business. The internet is littered with Kiesel horror stories for a reason. Nope, I didn't want to hear it either at the time. If stupid shit from their end didn't happen to u, consider yourself lucky.
-It was clearly stated in the beginning of the video that "I am in no way affiliated with Kiesel Guitars" This is a factual statement regardless of whatever false accusations you choose to make
-See details on kiesel website about return policy. They clearly state you are responsible for shipping
"If you're not satisfied for any reason, send it back for a prompt refund or exchange - you would only be responsible for the shipping."
-When placing orders it will be noted during online order checkout & invoice if customer specified options are ineligible for return
-It is the customers responsibility to carefully review these terms before placing orders
-All guitar companies are in business to sell products for a profit
-Continuing to make accommodations for customers returning excessive amounts of custom guitars is not productive
-If and when JK mentions trial periods for eligible orders, that does not necessarily imply a person has the freedom to return and infinite quantity of custom ordered guitars
-I would support the decision to make it clear to customers that at X amount of trial period returns that they will no longer continue to sell that individual as this is standard practice for most large retailers
-I cannot speak to any artist relations topics but they have the free will to change brands if they do not wish to renew contracts etc.
-If you strongly dislike a brand so much that you feel the right to return 4+ custom guitars in a year, perhaps you should consider another guitar builder and stop coming in here trying to shoot down guitars other people enjoy
6.8 pounds is not heavy... that is insanely light. Your body adapts and I am comfortable with my Gibson Les Paul which weights 11 pounds.
Yes its a good weight overall for sure. It is over a lb heavier than my other headless so that is a pretty significant difference. 1lb is gonna be alot more noticeable from 6-7 lbs than 1lb from, say, a 10-11lb guitar lol
That's light af
I'm not saying this to be mean, rather more playful, but when I come across this guy's channel I'm like "hey its the professional guitar bitcher"
If you have ordered a Kiesel you have already won
You know eventually you'll order another one 😉
Simple, get an aristides instead
Great option too!
You cannot customize Aristides except for the visuals. 20 inch fingerboard radius is a must for me for example. And Kiesel manufactures your guitar in a few months whereas it takes 1 year for Aristides.
Extremely ugly guitar made with a plastic body or something dumb like that? Hard pass
Save yourself the trouble and just don't order a Kiesel. Jeff Kiesel is an absolutely self-obsessed babyman who wouldn't be working a buffing wheel at any other company that wasn't handed down from his daddy and granddaddy.
lol the hate is strong with this one 😂 I understand your perspective, but I have really enjoyed my Kiesel's. I am not one to promote brand elitism, they just offer lots of features that other guitar brands just don't.
@@TopShelfGear Oh for sure, they have a ton of stuff other shops don't offer. The guitars are good, but they aren't on the same level of the shops Jeff thinks he's on par with. That dude is so insufferable, I can't imagine ever putting a nickel in his pocket to perpetuate his self-aggrandizement. No hate or shade to those who do though.
Mostly individualistic advice. When did a 7lb guitar become heavy? Lol
I think the point was that 7lbs is heavy for a chambered headless guitar. Plenty of non chambered normal headstock guitars are 7lbs.
The current trend for lightweight guitars is "alarming". Having gigged an non-weight-relieved Les Paul for 20 years (still have one but not gigged in a while) I genuinely wonder why players can't cope these days?
Maybe because modern technology and designs are always evolving to improve ergonomics? Some people continue holding on to the past for the sake of "the old days" with clunky gear that puts unnecessary stress on the body while some of us are accepting of new gear that is built specifically for comfort and ergonomics equally capable of the same musical result. Just because your legacy gear was what everyone used back in the day doesn't mean that's what everyone wants nowadays. Should tennis players go back to wooded rackets just because their hero's of the 70s used them? should we go back to dial phones because that's what grandpa did? no, we have evolved so far beyond that to make things modernized and comfortable.
@@TopShelfGear I totally accept the "that's how we kids do things now grandad" response...I'm all for evolution in the pursuit of progress. The timeline of the guitar is littered with "cutting edge" designs that lasted six months because they sold maybe 500 units worldwide (if that). I guess we like what we like.
After they shut down carvin the quality went to absolute dog shit.
How did you reach that conclusion? Since the kiesel rebranding, they have implemented quite a few improvements such as carbon fiber rods for neck stability, new sculpted heel joints, quarter sawn neck woods, and Jescar stainless steel frets standard across the board.
Bro.......your out of your mind. You're either lying or repeating what you read somewhere. Old Carvins are nowhere near the quality of the modern kiesel. I picked up 2 kiesels used and sold my 3 carvins because they're nowhere close to the kiesel. My luthier with forty years of experience agrees as well.
OMG an extra lb! what a baby.
These guitars suck
Maybe try a different brand?