Westerner here living in Shanghai. I mostly agree with the host about Chinese EVs are better in value and technology than the Germans. But guess what, there are lots of BMWs and Porsches here. I think it’s more to do with prestige. In the future that will most certainly change. Brands like nio, avatar, byd etc are so cool compared to the western brands.
I assumed it won’t change coz Japanese cars are better in value and advanced tech than western brands but they didn’t take over western brands , I don’t think our country could make it, does this make sense to you?
Prestige. You'are right. Prestige Chinese brands are also emerging but there is still a long way to go. BYD's sub-brand Yangwang is the first convincing one. But there is a question: what makes a prestige brand, and why does the industry (not consumers) need prestige brands?
@@deepseer my thought: could be the similar to ppl buying exorbitant brand name clothes. Like Chanel Gucci Prada etc. it’s to stand out individually and to show you ‘made it ‘ in life. Personally, I don’t usually get swayed for brand names, mostly for the value it gives. My fav car brand at the moment is KIA. I like the EV5 and EV9.
Some of the German companies wouldn't be around if it wasn't for the Chinese market since 2008. Its not China's fault those companies have been slow to adapt..
Europe is doomed by following USA as a puppet which leads Europe to go no where. De-industrialisation today in Europe is not driven by better Chinese products, but its own incompetent leadership in EU. Bigger failure ahead!
@@LEA82345due to political reasons, China's best cars including EVs aren't allowed into EU. In contrast, China allows the EU cars from the best to the worst, no discrimination agasint anyone. I'd push OP's timeline back even further to the 80s when VW first entered China. VW wouldn't be today's VW if it wasn't for the Chinese market.
@@LEA82345if Chinese EVs aren't ahead of the German EVs, why would VW want to use Xpengs EV platform? The truth is, VWs own ev platform for the ID series are way behind in terms of battery efficiency, safety and production costs.
The German auto industry was very much welcome in China all the time and have enjoyed A healthy profit from selling and manufacturing to China. The fact that they did not see the coming of the Chinese auto industry should have themselves to blame.
Europe is doomed by following USA as a puppet which leads Europe to go no where. De-industrialisation today in Europe is not driven by better Chinese products, but its own incompetent leadership in EU. Bigger failure ahead!
Copy, and then do *Better* ❕️ Chinese companies were quick to get giga presses. After seeing the success Tesla was having. The Western companies want to keep the unions happy.
True, all the Japanese in China also didn't see it coming so quickly, but I guess it's more on their pride than lagic.... They are there in China, they sure see it happening, more like the German and Japanese have too much pride to acknowledge it than anything else
VW is experiencing the same effect American TV makers in the 1980's did when Asian imports cleaned the clock with them and I say let 'em... All the legacy automakers had years-long head-starts on their competition and squandered them. VW teased the microbus for a decade before dropping an overpriced novelty product for Baby Boomers for example and did Nissan Leaf with its never built family of models.. That's what you get!
BYD, Geely (Volvo, Lynk, Polestar, Lotus, Zeekr, smart #1), SAIC (MG Motors), Tesla (only Model 3), Renault (Dacia) and Great Wall Motors (Ora Funky Cat) are all exporting cars made in China to Europe. The Shanghai-made Tesla Model 3, Fujian-made MG MG4 and Hubei-made Dacia Spring are the 2nd, 6th, and 10th best selling EVs in Europe in 2023 (Jan - Oct), respectively. The Volvo XC40 (which is the 4th best selling EV in Europe) is made in Ghent, but the upcoming Volvo EX30 will be made in Zhangjiakou. BYD, which is the biggest EV manufacturer in the world (if you include PHEVs), hasn't done well in Europe so far, because it is an unknown brand for Europeans and is charging higher prices than in China, but it currently offers the following car models in Europe: Seal, Dolphin, Atto 3 (Yuan), Han and Tang. The Atto 3/Yuan, Dolphin, Han and Tang are the 5th, 6th, 9th and 13th highest selling EVs in the world in 2023 (Jan - Sep), respectively. BYD isn't exporting its Song and Qin Plus which are the second and fourth highest selling in the world, but the models it does offer in Europe are competitive with what VW, BMW, Mercedes, Renault and Stellantis/Fiat are offering in my opinion, and I expect BYD to eventually do well once its brand becomes better known to Europeans. The software and autonomous driving features in BYD's cars isn't very good compared to Tesla, GAC Aion and Xpeng, but it competitive with what the German auto brands are currently offering. The Chengdu-made Polestar 2 and 3 and the Ningbo-made Zeekr 001 and X outclass any of the EVs being made by VW, Audi, Porsche, BMW, Mercedes, Renault or Stellantis/Fiat in my opinion. If we look at the SAIC/MG MG4 and BYD Atto 3 on the lower end, they compare well with the VW ID.4 (which is the best selling EV made by a European automaker), and the LFP batteries used by most Chinese-made EVs have double the lifespan and less risk of fires than the NMC batteries used by most European-made EVs, and LFP suffers less degradation when charged to 100% and drained to 0% , so you can use the full battery capacity.
Volkswagens are not competitive. Their electronics are pitiful. Look at their deal with Cariad. They paid a bunch of money and didn’t get anything out of that.
@@oxidalpha6350 is BMW software developed in Germany? Critical Tech Works should be able to provide good TaxiVan service in Coimbra. From 2028 onwards, or even earlier?
How can a company like VW lose its competitive edge while manufacturing for at least last thirty years in China is beyond me. They were there all this time, saw what was happening, but instead of gaining a competitive advantage by this, they completely lost it. How can they now hope for the trend to change???
I figured it was pretty sad, when Stellantis had to fire their own computer technicians because the Europeans sucked at providing good Satisfactory Software for their EVs. 😢 Stellantis had to go to a (more like forced) Chinese software company to get the results Stellantis was looking for. 😥 😢😢
A lot of Germans saw the writing on the wall. When they was trying Desperately to stop "Giga Berlin" from up and going. Hiring fake Environmentalist with BS claims. L🤣L
True, all the Japanese in China also didn't see it coming so quickly, but I guess it's more on their pride than logic.... They are there in China, they sure see it happening, more like the German and Japanese have too much pride to acknowledge it than anything else
Volkswagen's position and policy resources in the Chinese market are better than all Chinese and foreign car companies. But they are really too arrogant. When the Chinese government encourages enterprises to invest and develop electric vehicles, these giants apparently accept the initiative, but in fact they do resist it. Too much profit and market share make them despise the changes that are taking place.
in the 60's & 70's most of the electronic manufacturing went to Japan because they were better at it... the same thing is happening now with cars and China... there's no way back...
EU talks about China subsidizing their industry is really BS. What is the EU also doing? EU is also subsidizing their own industry, only they give it a different name.
There is one big difference. Europe is subsidizing purchase of EVs and is valid for all cars, even those produced abroad. And China is subsidizing only local production. So China has double advantage. Getting European subsidies for delivering over there and local subsidies for producing in China. That is not a different name, its a complete different thing.
@@renezirkelAlso, nothing wrong by how China subsidies its cars, the way EU subsidies cars is not some golden standard every other country has to follow. Big European mindset is killing u.
@@linphilip6389 There is a huge difference if you pay out local customers or local producers with subsidies. The customer is always local to its own country. You just increase world wide demand with this kind of subsidy. If you pay out your local manufactures (only) you incentivise local production/workforce within your border. You distort international trade in favor of your workforce. Your hatred for Europe is killing u.
@@renezirkel Not at all. Jobs move from EU to China and that benefits me. China is already doing this and won't stop. U can decouple from China but u can't force China not to subsidize a different way. EU suffer the most not China.
@@linphilip6389 Yes, local subsidies in China will move jobs from the EU to China. Doy you now understand, why EU may not be in favor of such things. I dont want China to be decoupled, but I also dont want the EU to be screwed over by Chinese politics. I guess, you think the same for China. The solution to satisfy both of us is either China stops subsidizing local manufacturers or EU raises import tax specific for Chinese cars.
If tesla can manufacture in Germany and sell cars for a competitive price,the other manufacturers should be able to as well.its not just cheaper labor costs from China.the german manufacturers have been too slow to make evs and update technology.
@@adoreslaurelVW could build EVs in Germany and be competitive and profitable. Just as Tesla is doing it - and soon with a 20.000 car too. But somehow VW and others can't achieve this.
No Chinese labor is not that much cheaper. But Chinese are just as smart if not smarter and more hard working than the lazy union workers of the West. VW ditched it's software division to use Chinese software company. Is it just cheap manual labor or better brains? Welcome to the new world
It would be bad for Germany to be cut off from the Chinese market, not for France though. In Europe, France who has few joint ventures with China is pushing for sanctions on China. German industry though is highly interconnected and pushing to not go very hard on Chinese EV’s. So it’s a bit of an internal food fight in Europe.
Nobody cares what Germany thinks they got too indebted to the Russian and now they are an industrial has been especially as they stupidly shut off nuclear in a knee jerk. Pathetic
Only until German car manufacturers are getting out competed in Europe by real Chinese cars. So they dont want to have too harsh sanctions on imported Chinese cars, but they also dont want no sanctions on imported Chinese cars.
@monipenny408 Economics is never a zero sum game. The more trade, the higher payout overall. That does not mean noone should ever try to get a higher payout for themselves. And you should never concede all payouts to the others.
Excellent commentary! Very objective assessment. I would add that It’s absolutely true that China’s industrial policies did and still do support certain sector’s development through subsidies. These include EVs, renewable energy such such solar, wind etc. I would argue that the policies are not only beneficial for China’s lead in these sectors, but also for the entire mankind because they make these environmentally less damaging products available more cheaply to the world. Imagine without the Chinese EVs, the Teslas would still enjoy the high monopolistic profits for many years and the EV adoptions would be much ch slower.
That's utterly false. China has removed all subsidies to all EV purchases since 2021. Just admit it... that when you can't compete the standard thing to do is to accuse the other side of playing unfair and seeking redress. Protectionism in this case. 😂😂
I know people who have worked in management at VW. They told almost unbelievable stories of incompetence, inflexibility, entrenched interests and corruption on a scale that is almost impossible to believe. But we all know the stories of all the scandals. And those are just the ones that were public.
The Chinese car industry is NOT "coming after" anyone. They are simply growing, evolving, adapting, to produce better products at a better price for the world. Legacy auto all over the world...Germany, Japan, US, have failed to make real changes and consumers are making the choice of which products they want. All these legacy auto companies were already so far in debt, they are unable (unwilling) to make the needed changes and investment to build the product consumers want. Game, set, match!
not correct they are stealing technology left and right and competing for state money until the competition is dead.granted the competition is ruled by slowmoving dinosaurs that has not seen the text on the wall.
You put in anyway you like, but in Xi's own words: China will rule the world. Ever heard of soft power? That's what this is, and they ARE coming after European Legacy automakers, that's a fact. Folks, it's good to remember that comment section has it's own people talking good about Chinese strategies. You might wan't to read every comment while wondering why is that
China never really mastered the combustion engine technology, and that's one reason why they decided to open up a new competition channel based on a new technology. China is very clear and open with its policy to transition to EV - only that the Europeans have gotten too complacent, too used to sitting on their laurels. But frankly even the Chinese did not see this coming. Nobody sees the battery technology can improve at such a rate.
@@cb250nighthawk3 Nothing last forever always stays true. nuclear power miniaturisation of course is the ultimate end game for anything that moves. but it gonna take a very long time, people are working on it very hard.
Chinese people have a good feeling towards Germans, which is divided into 2 parts. 1 This good feeling is from the time of Hitler, before World War II, Germany helped the Chinese government. At that time, there were a few German mechanized divisions in China, Japan invaded China, these German mechanized divisions gave the Japanese heavy losses, 2 German cars to the Chinese people's feeling is rigorous, quality assurance, and now many Chinese tram companies have set up research and development centers in Menihei, Germany
European car industry between a rock and hard place The rock is it losing competiveness against Chinese manufacturers at a rapid pace..so eventually will lead to closure of plants and loss of jobs The hard place is...well lets look at one way for those companies to survive ..which is robotics and AI...but the hard place is although European manufacturers may survive due to robotics but will still have to lay off tons of people as they become dispensible.... The amazing thing about chine is they are leading in EV technology but are also aiming to smash competition in the robotics and AI fields...
That's where things can get bloody. I think Europe took a lot of time before realizing the competition was coming. They kinda underestimate the Chinese will to take over this market. I don't see how that can get done without a major breakthrough coming from Europe. Then even if that happened at what cost ? Will it be scalable? There are so many things to fix that they litterally can't because of high energy price..
Not only with EVs but the wider technological landscape. From what I heard about AI. Europe doesn’t even have a chance at being at the forefront again. It’s USA then China in a close second. With powerful AI, they can design machines to manufacture vehicles much more efficiently etc. who knows, within 15 years we may have drones large enough to transport ppl safely in cities.
For the last 40 or so years, the EU, especially Germany made an incredible amount of money manufacturing and selling their cars to China. Moving forward, the Chinese are now reaping the benefits of their "Big Picture", long term planning, investing and fostering the EV industry. Yes the subsidies would seem "unfair" by Western standards; however, the West has finally seen the light and is now lavishing subsidies on their auto industry and I am sure will catch up if they are willing to make the painful adjustments eg VW. Instead of criticizing and denigrating the Chinese for their foresight, I agree with you that the West needs to learn from them rather than demonize them. And YES, China most definitely can innovate!
I do not think so. Germans have only a minority stake in Chinese factories. China is the largest car market in the world, but it only accounts for 10% of VW's profits. In 2013, Chinese EVs did not appear in the sales statistics of the world.
I agree that CCP_CHINA can innovate. I figured it was pretty sad, when Stellantis had to fire their own computer technicians because the Europeans sucked at providing good Satisfactory Software for their EVs. 😢 Stellantis had to go to a (more like forced) Chinese software company to get the results Stellantis was looking for. 😥 😢😢
Western Automotive has had a 20 year heads up about what was coming. The fact that they are now scrambling to catch up seems a rather pathetic spectacle.
I had an opportunity to test-drive the Mercedes EQS-500 for the first time in Thailand. It is a good car. However, when it came to the price tag, I almost fainted. 7,900,000 Baht to begin with!!! Nothing makes it more attractive than TESLA and especially AVATR. The EQS-500 has been launched in Thailand for at least 6 months. No wonder, I have seen only ONE on the street to date. The price is insane. One EQS-500 costs Thais a townhome!!! The super rich just skip it for Porsche.
Exactly my point, just saw that crazy price on Motor Show...next to 1,5 mio Seal 3.8 Avatr, waay out the league for MB...I think they will need 5 years to produce that kind of car I wonder what make you go to test drive it ? 555
Germany's high energy prices were due to own sanctions imposed by Germany itself and the destruction of Nord Stream pipelines by "allied" forces. In other words, self-inflicted.
Risks are high but its also a huge opportunity for european automakers to destory the Japanese and American Auto industry, who are reacting even slower than the europeans. If they play their cards right, combine their brand power with Chinese manufactoring leed in EVs, they can not only survive the upcoming major sea change, but end up being one of two industries that will sell cars to the world in scale.
I think it was a little American company called Tesla who started the entire EV revolution. A company who unlike BYD actually makes money selling EVs in China. In fact they are the only ones who make a profit in the Chinese EV market.
ATM the UAW and America are working hard at keeping Chinese made cars off the shores of Canada, America, and Mexico. Huge tariffs on Chinese made cars, ICE, or EV. Set up by the Trump Administration and kept in place with the 🥱Biden Administration 😴 ❕️
True. He also still thinks "no other nation can match vw in the auto industry". It's this very psychology that plagues German auto. Does he truly think this or is that what his underlings are telling him??
Well what difference does it make if EVs are made in China or in Germany (or any other country for that matter)? The important thing is who can make them cheaper (and better). The cheaper they are, the more people will drive them and the planet will end up being saved.
Cars emissions account for ~15% of C02 emissions worlwide, if people invested the same price surplus they pay on EVs, on other C02 supressing strategies (C02 less cement, C02/methane efficient meat consumption, etc) they would have a considerably higher impact on C02 reduction (double or triple impact)
China didn't even really start yet. If first builds the necessary infrastructure and then the real fun begins. BYD - regard everything it has done until now like the first warm-up training during a world championship.
What German manufacturers can offer, is their brands, styling concepts and design, perhaps quality reputation (in practical terms not that great). They can simply buy in running gear, battery/skateboard platforms and software from whoever has the best offering. The vast majority of customers don't care whats under the hood or where it came from as long as it works. Indeed I bought a topline Merc some decades ago (in Germany) and was surprised later to discover the engine and transmission had actually been made in South Korea. With a savvy approach the German manufacturers could be going gangbustsrs.
Styling comes down the the car designers. Chinese car manufacturers can easily poach them. I read in an interview with BYD's chief interior designer that he worked for Mercedes-Benz previously and then BYD offered him a salary three times as high. That's how it goes.
For an economy to survive, it needs to produce valued added products that provide National income and wealth. To import, you must export. Without the Auto industry, European knowledge and wealth will diminish. Our national income and wealth has not diminished in Australia when our Auto industry finished as our raw material exports provide Australia with a high standard of income, national wealth and enable imports. In the dying days of the Australian Auto industry that I worked for, the Holden Commodore had a very high imported content from China and GM was not supporting Australian suppliers. If the Commodore had continued, it would have been a car mostly assembled from mainly Chinese components. In other words, Australian in name only. The Europeans cannot afford to follow down this path.
BYD just announced that will open up a giga factory in Hungary. It will be in operation in 2025. Also, Nio and GWM are looking for a suitable location in Hungary as well. This is the beginning of the end.
the german companies knew very well what is comming and if its wasnt for China in 2008...well then the germans wouldnt have been as big as they are...maybe some would have died then.
Tesla has the right approach of making cars around the world for the local markets to minimise transport costs and emissions. It is fine to build in China for the Chinese market, but European and American OEMs should not be importing them back to their home markets. The EU failed to secure European manufacturing and now can't act without damaging its own car makers in China. They should have done more to make Eastern European countries attractive to manufacturing industries. Now it may be too late.
You say car makers should manufacture cars at the locations their cars are being sold to. China is the biggest auto market in the world, should anyone blame the European car makers manufacturing in China?
@@bananacabbage7402 if China doesn't want non-electric cars anymore, then why you think the European car makers moving their gasoline car factories from China back to Europe would hurt them in China?
In other words, China invested heavily in R&D in EVs and decided to skip internal combustion engine because they knew the Jpanaese and Germans were leaders in thay field. Germans, Japanese and Americans lacked the foresight and fell behind.
Sam agreed with all you said but I think this China/EU problem will need to be looked at in two distinct phases: 1) Here and now. Car market in China is crashing hard and the only way to keep their factories running is to export high quantities. EU being the volume market for sub $30K EV's which is currently available to them until EU rules change. 2) Beyond 2024 it is likely that EU will ensure local content so Chinese know-how and expertise will be required. Leading to joint ventures? What is disastrous that over the last 10 years particularly the German(like the US?) car industry have been asleep at the wheel paying dividends, bonuses and running up debt.
The car market is crashing in all countries, not just China. China is additionally suffering a property economic melt down. BUT, even though the car market is crashing in all countries - the EV car market is increasing - 57% even in the US. Yes, some manufactures are suffering with EV sales, but overall EV sales are rising rapidly in all countries while ICE is falling significantly.
To your last comment: Globalization has led to the rise of HUGE multinationals that all behave in the same criminal fashion based on the US model. (Americans may not like the criminal model being attributed to them, but if the shoe fit ...)
100% tariffs coupled with unaffordable insurance will stop the Chinese I live in China and although the EV’s are popular in the south you don’t see many past Beijing
Excellent video and yes the occident should do tactical subventionism, protectionism and rework incentives. BUT more than cars, it is about the battery industry, especially what is it that make CATL dominate the world. It is insane that the west is not injecting hundreds of billions of dollars into a CATL competitor
The VW group is still reeling from dieselgate. Instead of developing EV'S, VW and their suppliers decided to ride the clean diesel scheme into the ground, and it was costly, in terms of money and jobs that would of been used for making more developed EV'S and charging network that they rolled out in Electrify America.
just don't have a bump, it will be a write-off. Insurance and repair costs are intened to get you out of the car and use public transport. You are not intended to have a car unless wealthy
If I were a German, I would recommend German car companies to cooperate with Chinese car companies, and to learn from them. Chinese companies and Chinese government want to cooperate with European companies especially German companies for geopolitical reason. Tesla has no such incentive to cooperate with German car companies, and US government is not friendly to Germany (just look at what happened to the natural gas pipelines, and the extra deaths in the winter of 2022 much more than other European countries in average). But I am not a German. Therefore, I strongly recommend German car companies to immediately stop cooperate with Chinese car companies. If there is a bad consequence, I will urge German to be "strong" and just "tough it out".
OEMs are failing because they refuse to acknowledge this is not about EVs but rather technology's pace of change which is moving far faster than most realize. Refuse, deny, or try to continue with more of the same, but it will not stop technology from advancing. EVs are the first sign of disruption, but soon every industry will be impacted leaving many sidelined and lost.
What Car has a fantastic review of the BYD Seal, M3 Highland and VW ID.7. If the Germans think they can make me buy way over-priced, butt-ugly EVs (BMW, MB) or just re-skin last gen Chinese EVs (VW in the near future), They will be very wrong. My next car is an EV from either Tesla, Hyundai/Kia or BYD.
I think you’re right about electric vehicles being the future. However, I think the timeline in which you are thinking things are gonna happen are a little short the reason why I think this is because we don’t have infrastructure set up for everyone to switch over to electric we don’t produce enough, electricity, and, it would just cause electric prices to skyrocket so I think that needs to be looked at if we want this electric medication to happen is electric generation in a way that is cheap and sustainable so that way everyone has power to be able to run electric vehicles, and because of this and the infrastructure that already exist, and I think gasoline is not going to disappear in the next 510 years
The problem with subsidies is that it also needs to be controlled how they are used and those companies who fail should be allowed to fail… oftentimes subsidies are spent unwisely and do not bring benefits
If my next Mercedes is to be made in China I might as well buy a BYD. So they should not go that route, The prestige would be a very thin veneer that would fool few
Germans don't like 2 things: rapid change and competition. Wages are the highest in the world and weekly working hours are the lowest. But when push comes to shove, they have always been able to pivot despite the great effort to do so. This time I'm afraid it won't be possible.
Thats what you get for sitting on your hands, evolve or die even if the competition is blatantly stealing your R&D you need to move ahead and Germany has not been reading the text on the wall regarding EV's
The 10% import tax for cars made outside the EU is nothing new! It is DECADES old! The only possible change is that it may be new for cars made in China.
Because the US doesn't allow Chinese EV in the US market. Else Tesla would market share would be impacted too. In short, Americans are scared of competition and often had to resort into underhand tactics like sanctions and etc.
It will be true to a degree because most traditional auto outsource elements of manufacturing and any electronics or code is proprietary to the supplier, so to change the software in a vehicle may mean, changing hundreds of different separate systems, (somehow!)
China also has far more outstanding EV engineers, researchers and scientists working in the EV and battery making fields than Germany and other countries. They are also far more advanced with developing perovskite solar panels which offer over 50% more electricity generation compared to solar panels used today. Zeekr announced that it took 1,000 engineers 3 years to develop their outstanding golden battery which was released to the world this week! Germany and other countries can't compete with the intellectual prowess of the Chinese and are continually trying to catch up. Or, if you can't beat them, Germany is now producing some of their own cars in China!
And the most absurd thing is that the german and EU polititions are killing the german auto-industry. If all was left to the market logic - it would have been much different. But this is what happens to a great industrial nation - when your economy minister - is a green philologist.
I don’t know about Europe. In US big portion of people are anti-EV because they hate government subsidies and a lot of them also are climate change denier. So China’s advancement is West’s own doing. Based on my observations.
This doesn't have to be bad news for Germany. Remember that Volkswagen group has factories all over Europe, they can simply close the non-German factories and concentrate the jobs inside Germany. Mercedes, Porsche and BMW are strong premium brands that can survive competition, its just Volkswagen that will struggle.
Just read a article....record goal demand in 2023. Like they say if you think you dum. Remember there is a tesla driver who thinks his savings the world
Spot on with your thoughts on the potential political effects of this disruption in Europe Sam. I’m sure we will see the rise of the right again in the US this election cycle due to similar factors. The energy disruption is getting much faster now, consequences for inaction coming home to roost. Much unrest to come, fingers crossed calmer head’s prevail. Merry Christmas to you and family mate so many thanks for your work.
The Germans need to start thanking their lucky stars that Tesla chose to locate THERE. Tesla may Ironically, become the only Truely made GERMAN auto company. They should be breaking barriers down for them and EMBRACE them as their own.
Chinese BYD is making electric cars in Hungary. .. after BYD electric bus manufacturing history in Hungary...so Von Der Leyen must looking into Hungary subsidies in Hungary..
People will only buy one cheap Chinese car. By which time their 3 year old LHD lease hire is long gone on the ship going back. Got to get them out faster before people catch on. Put your money into the ships for a win win.
In the long term, only your quality of decision matters. EU always made bad decision in every turn after cold war is over. I haven't seen them did the right thing. By right thing, I mean good for themselves.
"By forming joint ventures with Chinese EV companies German companies could acquire the technologies they need to become competitive" - HAH! They're doing nothing of the sort! German companies are paying hundreds of billions of Euros to Chinese firms to outsource EV development, design & production entirely to China. VW, BMW & Mercedes will be reduced to re-branding Chinese EVs as their own: they've signed agreements to become dealers for Chinese EVs. This is the end of German auto manufacturing, and with it, the end of Germany as a manufacturing juggernaut. Germany will cease to have an industrial economy of any size at all. It's the end of Germany as we know it, and as a major force in the EU. It's a masterful play by China in it's long campaign of War by other means. Hard to see how the EU avoids becoming irrelevant.
Anyone who does NOT need a pick up truck to haul heavy loads and can afford an EV (new or used) is insane to keep on buying new(!) ICE vehicles, as those ICE vehicles will be worth very little in 5 years.
I understand where you are coming from, but that dynamic is very complex and it may not happen that way. Except with the really pricey ones like Mercedes and BMW. Personally, I have been looking at used BEVs but unfortunately Teslas in CANADA are still stupidly expensive USED unless they have so much mileage and age that you worry about the pack health. And the absolute lack of repairability (uh huh, tell me you give a crap Elon, we all know you don't). Tesla is the iPhone of cars in SOOO many ways. I think I won't touch an EV until i.) there is one I can afford NEW, ii.) there is an aftermarket pack and general repair service or iii.) batteries get so cheap that nobody cares much about the cost of the pack Wait until Elon shuts off somebody's car because they installed an aftermarket pack - you KNOW he will.
Swiss watches are a good example. The Swiss watch industry was actually down in the 1980s because Japanese manufacturers came up and were able to produce high quality watches at low costs. Swiss watches were still being made manually at that time. It changed when Nicolas G. Hayek invested heavily in the Swiss watch industry, buying established manufacturers and then standardisizing clockworks and automatisizing their producion. With newly found Swatch, he offered a fashionable and even cheaper alternative to Japanese watches. That's how the Swiss watch industry was solved - by unification, innovation and automatisation. I wouldn't surprised to see a merger between Volkswagen, Daimler or BMW in the future.
Don’t make that kinda explode topic, I totally disagree with that, EVs in our country will take over Japanese carmakers not Germany coz our target customers are pretty much the same, whose looking for inexpensive good quality cars , unlike German carmakers who made expensive premium cars, our target customers are way different
It is the difference between gigacasting and no gigacasting. Tesla, Chinese manufacturers and Toyota/ Lexus bed on gigacasting. European manufacturers and Usa manufacturers bed on old design methods, Ice's with a big battery pack..... . That's not the future😢😢😢. 2nd difference, no Unions in China......in Europe and the Usa, the manufacturers needs restructering asap but are blocked by the Unions.... .
Please let us use rightful words -less emotive words to promote the well being of European people at work.Germany has challenges yes, however let us look at how Germany wss rebuilt after the war..this is a nation that works, understands the value of education, discipline and tge importance of curating the environment. The renewables industry is founded in significant part on method brought to life by German tax and research institutes.🎉 Max Planc , Frauenhofer, Aachen Electical Faculty at tUniversity of Aachen. Siemens, Sunnyboy, Varta are all names received globally.
US and European subsidiaries are much worse. So they should stop complaining. They had the monopoly over some of these products. So they could force developing countries to pay a premium on them even if they weren't not the best.
Excepty that now the guvment has removed incentives and tax relief (etc, etc - what happened to "EVs can complete on a level field?") the German EV market has crashed. Because without those, EVs are simply not worth the money to most people. If you are going to tell a story, how about tell all of it?
The strategy around using China as a manfacturing base for EVs from a range of auto manufacturers is a flawed one. The Chinese communist government is all about what's in their national interest, monopolizing the manfacture of cheap, subsidized EVs to the greatest extent possible is one such interest and not in the interest of western nations and their local car industry. China's "Electric Vehicle Revolution" is more a resolution to simply exploit a market opportunity to their advantage. Western democratic countries and businesses have clearly not learned the lessons of history and risks of over reliance on communist China as a cheap manufacturing base.
american wake up to it long time ago, its just european still dont want to face the fact regarding this issue. but eventually they will come to the same conclusion any ways. china r just dumping what the american didn't buy to the european market. thats why their trade deficit vs china had sky rocketed over the past couple years. eventually they will impose tariff, nobody will take these type of mercantilism in 2020s.
Everything I've been thinking for years is becoming true. Ww3 will be started because German industry will go down and they'll find a minority to blame like they always have. Germans will German.
Germans have great work ethic at least compared to many other Europeans. I am pretty sure they will find a way to adjust, like they have done in the past even if Chinese cars really take over. Although I still think some legacy automakers can sort it out, China will still lack consumer trust to its cars in Europe for a while and Chinese cars still have their own small kinks that Europeans do not like that much, also over optimistic promises when it comes to range as an example
Have you been to Germany? They still fax each other there. Wifi is not everywhere and cash is a thing. People have to wait in line to buy train tickets. Doesn't seem like they adjust well.
They are too proud of their "germanness" to adjust, which will be their downfall. And they'll drag everyone along with it. We've experienced it before.
It won't be world wars but regional wars...i have a feeling in the far east it will be the Japanese who starts it against China due to gett8ng beaten down economically by China (writing is on the wall)...
Westerner here living in Shanghai. I mostly agree with the host about Chinese EVs are better in value and technology than the Germans. But guess what, there are lots of BMWs and Porsches here. I think it’s more to do with prestige. In the future that will most certainly change. Brands like nio, avatar, byd etc are so cool compared to the western brands.
And Zeekr.
I assumed it won’t change coz Japanese cars are better in value and advanced tech than western brands but they didn’t take over western brands , I don’t think our country could make it, does this make sense to you?
the exterior design are headed by the top European designers, it is not a surprise.
Prestige. You'are right. Prestige Chinese brands are also emerging but there is still a long way to go.
BYD's sub-brand Yangwang is the first convincing one.
But there is a question: what makes a prestige brand, and why does the industry (not consumers) need prestige brands?
@@deepseer my thought: could be the similar to ppl buying exorbitant brand name clothes. Like Chanel Gucci Prada etc. it’s to stand out individually and to show you ‘made it ‘ in life. Personally, I don’t usually get swayed for brand names, mostly for the value it gives. My fav car brand at the moment is KIA. I like the EV5 and EV9.
Some of the German companies wouldn't be around if it wasn't for the Chinese market since 2008. Its not China's fault those companies have been slow to adapt..
Europe is doomed by following USA as a puppet which leads Europe to go no where. De-industrialisation today in Europe is not driven by better Chinese products, but its own incompetent leadership in EU. Bigger failure ahead!
Which Chinese car sold in Europe is better than comparable German car? None.
All the Chinese EVs@@LEA82345
@@LEA82345due to political reasons, China's best cars including EVs aren't allowed into EU. In contrast, China allows the EU cars from the best to the worst, no discrimination agasint anyone. I'd push OP's timeline back even further to the 80s when VW first entered China. VW wouldn't be today's VW if it wasn't for the Chinese market.
@@LEA82345if Chinese EVs aren't ahead of the German EVs, why would VW want to use Xpengs EV platform? The truth is, VWs own ev platform for the ID series are way behind in terms of battery efficiency, safety and production costs.
The German auto industry was very much welcome in China all the time and have enjoyed A healthy profit from selling and manufacturing to China.
The fact that they did not see the coming of the Chinese auto industry should have themselves to blame.
Europe is doomed by following USA as a puppet which leads Europe to go no where. De-industrialisation today in Europe is not driven by better Chinese products, but its own incompetent leadership in EU. Bigger failure ahead!
Copy, and then do *Better* ❕️
Chinese companies were quick to get giga presses. After seeing the success Tesla was having.
The Western companies want to keep the unions happy.
True, all the Japanese in China also didn't see it coming so quickly, but I guess it's more on their pride than lagic.... They are there in China, they sure see it happening, more like the German and Japanese have too much pride to acknowledge it than anything else
VW is experiencing the same effect American TV makers in the 1980's did when Asian imports cleaned the clock with them and I say let 'em... All the legacy automakers had years-long head-starts on their competition and squandered them. VW teased the microbus for a decade before dropping an overpriced novelty product for Baby Boomers for example and did Nissan Leaf with its never built family of models.. That's what you get!
BYD, Geely (Volvo, Lynk, Polestar, Lotus, Zeekr, smart #1), SAIC (MG Motors), Tesla (only Model 3), Renault (Dacia) and Great Wall Motors (Ora Funky Cat) are all exporting cars made in China to Europe. The Shanghai-made Tesla Model 3, Fujian-made MG MG4 and Hubei-made Dacia Spring are the 2nd, 6th, and 10th best selling EVs in Europe in 2023 (Jan - Oct), respectively. The Volvo XC40 (which is the 4th best selling EV in Europe) is made in Ghent, but the upcoming Volvo EX30 will be made in Zhangjiakou.
BYD, which is the biggest EV manufacturer in the world (if you include PHEVs), hasn't done well in Europe so far, because it is an unknown brand for Europeans and is charging higher prices than in China, but it currently offers the following car models in Europe: Seal, Dolphin, Atto 3 (Yuan), Han and Tang. The Atto 3/Yuan, Dolphin, Han and Tang are the 5th, 6th, 9th and 13th highest selling EVs in the world in 2023 (Jan - Sep), respectively. BYD isn't exporting its Song and Qin Plus which are the second and fourth highest selling in the world, but the models it does offer in Europe are competitive with what VW, BMW, Mercedes, Renault and Stellantis/Fiat are offering in my opinion, and I expect BYD to eventually do well once its brand becomes better known to Europeans. The software and autonomous driving features in BYD's cars isn't very good compared to Tesla, GAC Aion and Xpeng, but it competitive with what the German auto brands are currently offering.
The Chengdu-made Polestar 2 and 3 and the Ningbo-made Zeekr 001 and X outclass any of the EVs being made by VW, Audi, Porsche, BMW, Mercedes, Renault or Stellantis/Fiat in my opinion. If we look at the SAIC/MG MG4 and BYD Atto 3 on the lower end, they compare well with the VW ID.4 (which is the best selling EV made by a European automaker), and the LFP batteries used by most Chinese-made EVs have double the lifespan and less risk of fires than the NMC batteries used by most European-made EVs, and LFP suffers less degradation when charged to 100% and drained to 0% , so you can use the full battery capacity.
They produce fake cars for the numbers to have a look of a world car production leader.
ruclips.net/video/1SEfwoqKRU8/видео.html
Volkswagens are not competitive. Their electronics are pitiful. Look at their deal with Cariad. They paid a bunch of money and didn’t get anything out of that.
@@oxidalpha6350 is BMW software developed in Germany?
Critical Tech Works should be able to provide good TaxiVan service in Coimbra. From 2028 onwards, or even earlier?
How can a company like VW lose its competitive edge while manufacturing for at least last thirty years in China is beyond me. They were there all this time, saw what was happening, but instead of gaining a competitive advantage by this, they completely lost it. How can they now hope for the trend to change???
I figured it was pretty sad, when Stellantis had to fire their own computer technicians because the Europeans sucked at providing good Satisfactory Software for their EVs. 😢
Stellantis had to go to a (more like forced) Chinese software company to get the results Stellantis was looking for. 😥 😢😢
I don't necessary blame VW. There are many car companies also didn't expect EVs to spread so quickly. I don't expect the growth of EVs to be so quick.
A lot of Germans saw the writing on the wall. When they was trying Desperately to stop "Giga Berlin" from up and going.
Hiring fake Environmentalist with BS claims. L🤣L
True, all the Japanese in China also didn't see it coming so quickly, but I guess it's more on their pride than logic.... They are there in China, they sure see it happening, more like the German and Japanese have too much pride to acknowledge it than anything else
Volkswagen's position and policy resources in the Chinese market are better than all Chinese and foreign car companies. But they are really too arrogant. When the Chinese government encourages enterprises to invest and develop electric vehicles, these giants apparently accept the initiative, but in fact they do resist it. Too much profit and market share make them despise the changes that are taking place.
in the 60's & 70's most of the electronic manufacturing went to Japan because they were better at it... the same thing is happening now with cars and China... there's no way back...
EU talks about China subsidizing their industry is really BS. What is the EU also doing? EU is also subsidizing their own industry, only they give it a different name.
There is one big difference. Europe is subsidizing purchase of EVs and is valid for all cars, even those produced abroad. And China is subsidizing only local production. So China has double advantage. Getting European subsidies for delivering over there and local subsidies for producing in China. That is not a different name, its a complete different thing.
@@renezirkelAlso, nothing wrong by how China subsidies its cars, the way EU subsidies cars is not some golden standard every other country has to follow. Big European mindset is killing u.
@@linphilip6389 There is a huge difference if you pay out local customers or local producers with subsidies. The customer is always local to its own country. You just increase world wide demand with this kind of subsidy. If you pay out your local manufactures (only) you incentivise local production/workforce within your border. You distort international trade in favor of your workforce. Your hatred for Europe is killing u.
@@renezirkel Not at all. Jobs move from EU to China and that benefits me. China is already doing this and won't stop. U can decouple from China but u can't force China not to subsidize a different way. EU suffer the most not China.
@@linphilip6389 Yes, local subsidies in China will move jobs from the EU to China. Doy you now understand, why EU may not be in favor of such things. I dont want China to be decoupled, but I also dont want the EU to be screwed over by Chinese politics. I guess, you think the same for China. The solution to satisfy both of us is either China stops subsidizing local manufacturers or EU raises import tax specific for Chinese cars.
If tesla can manufacture in Germany and sell cars for a competitive price,the other manufacturers should be able to as well.its not just cheaper labor costs from China.the german manufacturers have been too slow to make evs and update technology.
Obviously the trouble is that the Tesla is not wearing a VW badge.
@@adoreslaurelVW could build EVs in Germany and be competitive and profitable. Just as Tesla is doing it - and soon with a 20.000 car too. But somehow VW and others can't achieve this.
No Chinese labor is not that much cheaper. But Chinese are just as smart if not smarter and more hard working than the lazy union workers of the West. VW ditched it's software division to use Chinese software company. Is it just cheap manual labor or better brains? Welcome to the new world
nothing compares to the Tesla experience. VW makes uninspiring cars
I’ll spell it out: UNIONS.
It would be bad for Germany to be cut off from the Chinese market, not for France though. In Europe, France who has few joint ventures with China is pushing for sanctions on China. German industry though is highly interconnected and pushing to not go very hard on Chinese EV’s. So it’s a bit of an internal food fight in Europe.
Ah France...they also say l'ordinateur instead of computer...
Nobody cares what Germany thinks they got too indebted to the Russian and now they are an industrial has been especially as they stupidly shut off nuclear in a knee jerk. Pathetic
Only until German car manufacturers are getting out competed in Europe by real Chinese cars. So they dont want to have too harsh sanctions on imported Chinese cars, but they also dont want no sanctions on imported Chinese cars.
@monipenny408 Economics is never a zero sum game. The more trade, the higher payout overall. That does not mean noone should ever try to get a higher payout for themselves. And you should never concede all payouts to the others.
Excellent commentary! Very objective assessment. I would add that It’s absolutely true that China’s industrial policies did and still do support certain sector’s development through subsidies. These include EVs, renewable energy such such solar, wind etc. I would argue that the policies are not only beneficial for China’s lead in these sectors, but also for the entire mankind because they make these environmentally less damaging products available more cheaply to the world. Imagine without the Chinese EVs, the Teslas would still enjoy the high monopolistic profits for many years and the EV adoptions would be much ch slower.
That's utterly false. China has removed all subsidies to all EV purchases since 2021.
Just admit it... that when you can't compete the standard thing to do is to accuse the other side of playing unfair and seeking redress. Protectionism in this case. 😂😂
@@tweedy4sg source?
I know people who have worked in management at VW. They told almost unbelievable stories of incompetence, inflexibility, entrenched interests and corruption on a scale that is almost impossible to believe. But we all know the stories of all the scandals. And those are just the ones that were public.
The Chinese car industry is NOT "coming after" anyone. They are simply growing, evolving, adapting, to produce better products at a better price for the world.
Legacy auto all over the world...Germany, Japan, US, have failed to make real changes and consumers are making the choice of which products they want. All these legacy auto companies were already so far in debt, they are unable (unwilling) to make the needed changes and investment to build the product consumers want. Game, set, match!
not correct they are stealing technology left and right and competing for state money until the competition is dead.granted the competition is ruled by slowmoving dinosaurs that has not seen the text on the wall.
You put in anyway you like, but in Xi's own words: China will rule the world. Ever heard of soft power? That's what this is, and they ARE coming after European Legacy automakers, that's a fact.
Folks, it's good to remember that comment section has it's own people talking good about Chinese strategies. You might wan't to read every comment while wondering why is that
VW didn't want to see this when they got rid of the man who could have saved them - Herbert Deiss.
China never really mastered the combustion engine technology, and that's one reason why they decided to open up a new competition channel based on a new technology. China is very clear and open with its policy to transition to EV - only that the Europeans have gotten too complacent, too used to sitting on their laurels. But frankly even the Chinese did not see this coming. Nobody sees the battery technology can improve at such a rate.
spot on, the patents fees for ICE and gearbox is what bring down the legacy auto companies, by thinking they can depends on it indefinitely
Tony Seba saw this coming a long time ago
The biggest factor in pushing the transition to EV faster is climate change concerns and pledges/commitments made at COP summits.
@@TerminatorMod101
Yeah, nothing lasts forever. EVs won't last forever too. It will be replaced by nuclear powered flying cars. 😂
@@cb250nighthawk3 Nothing last forever always stays true. nuclear power miniaturisation of course is the ultimate end game for anything that moves. but it gonna take a very long time, people are working on it very hard.
Correction there is no Russian energy embargo, but only EU sanctions and that idiotic price cap beyond which the EU officially refuses to buy.
How do you think the EU should respond to an invasion, either Militarily (Russia) or Economic (China)?
@@John-FourteenSixsame way the EU responded when Israel invaded Palestine... applaud and support.
@@John-FourteenSixin today’s world, ideologues are still prevailing
@@John-FourteenSix They can't, because an occupied territory (politically and economically) can't respond on its own to a third party.
Video maker is clearly a Westoid.... he's biased, not objective & speaks only in western narrative terms.🙄.
Chinese people have a good feeling towards Germans, which is divided into 2 parts. 1 This good feeling is from the time of Hitler, before World War II, Germany helped the Chinese government. At that time, there were a few German mechanized divisions in China, Japan invaded China, these German mechanized divisions gave the Japanese heavy losses, 2 German cars to the Chinese people's feeling is rigorous, quality assurance, and now many Chinese tram companies have set up research and development centers in Menihei, Germany
European car industry between a rock and hard place
The rock is it losing competiveness against Chinese manufacturers at a rapid pace..so eventually will lead to closure of plants and loss of jobs
The hard place is...well lets look at one way for those companies to survive ..which is robotics and AI...but the hard place is although European manufacturers may survive due to robotics but will still have to lay off tons of people as they become dispensible....
The amazing thing about chine is they are leading in EV technology but are also aiming to smash competition in the robotics and AI fields...
That's where things can get bloody. I think Europe took a lot of time before realizing the competition was coming. They kinda underestimate the Chinese will to take over this market.
I don't see how that can get done without a major breakthrough coming from Europe. Then even if that happened at what cost ? Will it be scalable?
There are so many things to fix that they litterally can't because of high energy price..
Not only with EVs but the wider technological landscape. From what I heard about AI. Europe doesn’t even have a chance at being at the forefront again. It’s USA then China in a close second. With powerful AI, they can design machines to manufacture vehicles much more efficiently etc. who knows, within 15 years we may have drones large enough to transport ppl safely in cities.
For the last 40 or so years, the EU, especially Germany made an incredible amount of money manufacturing and selling their cars to China. Moving forward, the Chinese are now reaping the benefits of their "Big Picture", long term planning, investing and fostering the EV industry. Yes the subsidies would seem "unfair" by Western standards; however, the West has finally seen the light and is now lavishing subsidies on their auto industry and I am sure will catch up if they are willing to make the painful adjustments eg VW. Instead of criticizing and denigrating the Chinese for their foresight, I agree with you that the West needs to learn from them rather than demonize them. And YES, China most definitely can innovate!
I do not think so. Germans have only a minority stake in Chinese factories. China is the largest car market in the world, but it only accounts for 10% of VW's profits. In 2013, Chinese EVs did not appear in the sales statistics of the world.
I agree that CCP_CHINA can innovate.
I figured it was pretty sad, when Stellantis had to fire their own computer technicians because the Europeans sucked at providing good Satisfactory Software for their EVs. 😢
Stellantis had to go to a (more like forced) Chinese software company to get the results Stellantis was looking for. 😥 😢😢
Western Automotive has had a 20 year heads up about what was coming. The fact that they are now scrambling to catch up seems a rather pathetic spectacle.
It was not Russia's energy embargo. It was EU that banned trade with Russia.
I had an opportunity to test-drive the Mercedes EQS-500 for the first time in Thailand. It is a good car. However, when it came to the price tag, I almost fainted. 7,900,000 Baht to begin with!!! Nothing makes it more attractive than TESLA and especially AVATR. The EQS-500 has been launched in Thailand for at least 6 months. No wonder, I have seen only ONE on the street to date. The price is insane. One EQS-500 costs Thais a townhome!!! The super rich just skip it for Porsche.
In the middle of Europe they are trying to sell a DongFeng for the price of a Mercedes EQE.
Exactly my point, just saw that crazy price on Motor Show...next to 1,5 mio Seal 3.8
Avatr, waay out the league for MB...I think they will need 5 years to produce that kind of car
I wonder what make you go to test drive it ? 555
I don't mind paying German prices for German cars but I won't pay German prices for German card made in China.
很不幸的是，零件很多中國製造，汽車如此，腳踏車也是😂😂😂
這個問題你應該跟德國人確認😂😂😂
德國汽車的lcd面板，芯片，你覺得是德國製的機率是多少？😂😂
如果壞掉了，德國人會賣你多少錢？😂😂😂
Very soon you will pay German price for electric cars made in China simply because the European can't compete.
Germany's high energy prices were due to own sanctions imposed by Germany itself and the destruction of Nord Stream pipelines by "allied" forces. In other words, self-inflicted.
Risks are high but its also a huge opportunity for european automakers to destory the Japanese and American Auto industry, who are reacting even slower than the europeans. If they play their cards right, combine their brand power with Chinese manufactoring leed in EVs, they can not only survive the upcoming major sea change, but end up being one of two industries that will sell cars to the world in scale.
But Europeans are too proud to admit which won’t serve them well
I think it was a little American company called Tesla who started the entire EV revolution. A company who unlike BYD actually makes money selling EVs in China. In fact they are the only ones who make a profit in the Chinese EV market.
ATM the UAW and America are working hard at keeping Chinese made cars off the shores of Canada, America, and Mexico.
Huge tariffs on Chinese made cars, ICE, or EV. Set up by the Trump Administration and kept in place with the 🥱Biden Administration 😴 ❕️
Olaf Scholz, chancellor of Germany looks really like a Pirate..... I will get panic if I were a fisherman seeing him at sea.....
More like Donald Pleasance’s Blofeld, I thought 😂
True. He also still thinks "no other nation can match vw in the auto industry". It's this very psychology that plagues German auto. Does he truly think this or is that what his underlings are telling him??
I have no knowledge of his record or abilities but I still recoil from your poor attempt at a joke based on his disability.
@@garethrobinson2275 Hi Gareth, it was only a jogging accident, not a disability, he’s fine now and I believe he saw the funny side of it at the time.
Well what difference does it make if EVs are made in China or in Germany (or any other country for that matter)? The important thing is who can make them cheaper (and better). The cheaper they are, the more people will drive them and the planet will end up being saved.
Cars emissions account for ~15% of C02 emissions worlwide, if people invested the same price surplus they pay on EVs, on other C02 supressing strategies (C02 less cement, C02/methane efficient meat consumption, etc) they would have a considerably higher impact on C02 reduction (double or triple impact)
In today's fast moving economy, the one who has the vision will eventually be on the top.
China didn't even really start yet. If first builds the necessary infrastructure and then the real fun begins. BYD - regard everything it has done until now like the first warm-up training during a world championship.
What German manufacturers can offer, is their brands, styling concepts and design, perhaps quality reputation (in practical terms not that great).
They can simply buy in running gear, battery/skateboard platforms and software from whoever has the best offering. The vast majority of customers don't care whats under the hood or where it came from as long as it works. Indeed I bought a topline Merc some decades ago (in Germany) and was surprised later to discover the engine and transmission had actually been made in South Korea.
With a savvy approach the German manufacturers could be going gangbustsrs.
Styling comes down the the car designers. Chinese car manufacturers can easily poach them. I read in an interview with BYD's chief interior designer that he worked for Mercedes-Benz previously and then BYD offered him a salary three times as high. That's how it goes.
@@fabulous_y5654 yes, I understand the very popular BYD Atto was designed in Italy. Whoever did it, did a good job.
For an economy to survive, it needs to produce valued added products that provide National income and wealth. To import, you must export. Without the Auto industry, European knowledge and wealth will diminish. Our national income and wealth has not diminished in Australia when our Auto industry finished as our raw material exports provide Australia with a high standard of income, national wealth and enable imports. In the dying days of the Australian Auto industry that I worked for, the Holden Commodore had a very high imported content from China and GM was not supporting Australian suppliers. If the Commodore had continued, it would have been a car mostly assembled from mainly Chinese components. In other words, Australian in name only. The Europeans cannot afford to follow down this path.
Didn't help that VW drowned the Felicity Ace with around 4,000 cars - amongst them Porsches, Bentleys and Lamborghinis.
BYD just announced that will open up a giga factory in Hungary. It will be in operation in 2025. Also, Nio and GWM are looking for a suitable location in Hungary as well. This is the beginning of the end.
Germany Legacy and EVs just too expensive. The Luxury hype for some well known brands are over!
the german companies knew very well what is comming and if its wasnt for China in 2008...well then the germans wouldnt have been as big as they are...maybe some would have died then.
Tesla has the right approach of making cars around the world for the local markets to minimise transport costs and emissions. It is fine to build in China for the Chinese market, but European and American OEMs should not be importing them back to their home markets. The EU failed to secure European manufacturing and now can't act without damaging its own car makers in China. They should have done more to make Eastern European countries attractive to manufacturing industries. Now it may be too late.
You say car makers should manufacture cars at the locations their cars are being sold to. China is the biggest auto market in the world, should anyone blame the European car makers manufacturing in China?
@@same.6409 China only wants electric cars now. This was foreseeable since a few years ago. How many of them are building electric cars there?
@@bananacabbage7402 if China doesn't want non-electric cars anymore, then why you think the European car makers moving their gasoline car factories from China back to Europe would hurt them in China?
In other words, China invested heavily in R&D in EVs and decided to skip internal combustion engine because they knew the Jpanaese and Germans were leaders in thay field. Germans, Japanese and Americans lacked the foresight and fell behind.
Sam agreed with all you said but I think this China/EU problem will need to be looked at in two distinct phases:
1) Here and now. Car market in China is crashing hard and the only way to keep their factories running is to export high quantities. EU being the volume market for sub $30K EV's which is currently available to them until EU rules change.
2) Beyond 2024 it is likely that EU will ensure local content so Chinese know-how and expertise will be required. Leading to joint ventures?
What is disastrous that over the last 10 years particularly the German(like the US?) car industry have been asleep at the wheel paying dividends, bonuses and running up debt.
The car market is crashing in all countries, not just China. China is additionally suffering a property economic melt down. BUT, even though the car market is crashing in all countries - the EV car market is increasing - 57% even in the US. Yes, some manufactures are suffering with EV sales, but overall EV sales are rising rapidly in all countries while ICE is falling significantly.
To your last comment: Globalization has led to the rise of HUGE multinationals that all behave in the same criminal fashion based on the US model. (Americans may not like the criminal model being attributed to them, but if the shoe fit ...)
I have 6,020 Tesla shares but have been recently buying XPeng stocks because this company reminds me of Tesla 7 years ago.
100% tariffs coupled with unaffordable insurance will stop the Chinese
I live in China and although the EV’s are popular in the south you don’t see many past Beijing
Excellent video and yes the occident should do tactical subventionism, protectionism and rework incentives. BUT more than cars, it is about the battery industry, especially what is it that make CATL dominate the world. It is insane that the west is not injecting hundreds of billions of dollars into a CATL competitor
The VW group is still reeling from dieselgate. Instead of developing EV'S, VW and their suppliers decided to ride the clean diesel scheme into the ground, and it was costly, in terms of money and jobs that would of been used for making more developed EV'S and charging network that they rolled out in Electrify America.
just don't have a bump, it will be a write-off. Insurance and repair costs are intened to get you out of the car and use public transport. You are not intended to have a car unless wealthy
If I were a German, I would recommend German car companies to cooperate with Chinese car companies, and to learn from them. Chinese companies and Chinese government want to cooperate with European companies especially German companies for geopolitical reason. Tesla has no such incentive to cooperate with German car companies, and US government is not friendly to Germany (just look at what happened to the natural gas pipelines, and the extra deaths in the winter of 2022 much more than other European countries in average).
But I am not a German. Therefore, I strongly recommend German car companies to immediately stop cooperate with Chinese car companies. If there is a bad consequence, I will urge German to be "strong" and just "tough it out".
OEMs are failing because they refuse to acknowledge this is not about EVs but rather technology's pace of change which is moving far faster than most realize. Refuse, deny, or try to continue with more of the same, but it will not stop technology from advancing. EVs are the first sign of disruption, but soon every industry will be impacted leaving many sidelined and lost.
Lucky for the Chinese auto workers they don't have any pesky unions to worry about. Long live the Chinese Communist Party! 🎉😊
What Car has a fantastic review of the BYD Seal, M3 Highland and VW ID.7. If the Germans think they can make me buy way over-priced, butt-ugly EVs (BMW, MB) or just re-skin last gen Chinese EVs (VW in the near future), They will be very wrong. My next car is an EV from either Tesla, Hyundai/Kia or BYD.
Very important video, thanks
It's all because of the cost of labour. That simple.
I think you’re right about electric vehicles being the future. However, I think the timeline in which you are thinking things are gonna happen are a little short the reason why I think this is because we don’t have infrastructure set up for everyone to switch over to electric we don’t produce enough, electricity, and, it would just cause electric prices to skyrocket so I think that needs to be looked at if we want this electric medication to happen is electric generation in a way that is cheap and sustainable so that way everyone has power to be able to run electric vehicles, and because of this and the infrastructure that already exist, and I think gasoline is not going to disappear in the next 510 years
True
They both will be compatible.
In America, we got these people called the Amish. And they still get around by horse and buggy.
The problem with subsidies is that it also needs to be controlled how they are used and those companies who fail should be allowed to fail… oftentimes subsidies are spent unwisely and do not bring benefits
Sounds like what should be applied to Ford and GM in the USA, Oh wait! could it be that they are TOO BIG to fail.
If my next Mercedes is to be made in China I might as well buy a BYD. So they should not go that route, The prestige would be a very thin veneer that would fool few
Germans don't like 2 things: rapid change and competition. Wages are the highest in the world and weekly working hours are the lowest. But when push comes to shove, they have always been able to pivot despite the great effort to do so. This time I'm afraid it won't be possible.
Thats what you get for sitting on your hands, evolve or die even if the competition is blatantly stealing your R&D you need to move ahead and Germany has not been reading the text on the wall regarding EV's
The 10% import tax for cars made outside the EU is nothing new! It is DECADES old! The only possible change is that it may be new for cars made in China.
Cheers mate
Great video Sam, many thanks.
These companies rest on their butts and think ICE is their golden egg😂
I see more Teslas at Tucson Tesla parking lot than ever before...now half full rather than totally empty.
Can you help me understand the significance you might place on this anecdotal evidence?
Teslas are basically CATL powered chinese cars
Because the US doesn't allow Chinese EV in the US market. Else Tesla would market share would be impacted too. In short, Americans are scared of competition and often had to resort into underhand tactics like sanctions and etc.
Thanks.
This is all Europe, USA and Japan's fault. Same as with their lag in the transition to renewables and storage.
vw have surely had lots of software trouble, dont know if its true for bmw and mercedes?
It will be true to a degree because most traditional auto outsource elements of manufacturing and any electronics or code is proprietary to the supplier, so to change the software in a vehicle may mean, changing hundreds of different separate systems, (somehow!)
Uh you are aware that both the US and the EU subsidize their EV industries too right?
Evening mate
China also has far more outstanding EV engineers, researchers and scientists working in the EV and battery making fields than Germany and other countries. They are also far more advanced with developing perovskite solar panels which offer over 50% more electricity generation compared to solar panels used today. Zeekr announced that it took 1,000 engineers 3 years to develop their outstanding golden battery which was released to the world this week! Germany and other countries can't compete with the intellectual prowess of the Chinese and are continually trying to catch up. Or, if you can't beat them, Germany is now producing some of their own cars in China!
Is #VW #car manufacture a #german or #chinese company? Is where it #manufactured important or is the #branding more important?
Oh, I just hate it when you ask preceptive questions.
And the most absurd thing is that the german and EU polititions are killing the german auto-industry. If all was left to the market logic - it would have been much different. But this is what happens to a great industrial nation - when your economy minister - is a green philologist.
Damn
Game over moment
I don’t know about Europe. In US big portion of people are anti-EV because they hate government subsidies and a lot of them also are climate change denier. So China’s advancement is West’s own doing. Based on my observations.
It’s ironic that they don’t hate oil and gas subsidies!
No sanctions on Tesla?
This doesn't have to be bad news for Germany. Remember that Volkswagen group has factories all over Europe, they can simply close the non-German factories and concentrate the jobs inside Germany. Mercedes, Porsche and BMW are strong premium brands that can survive competition, its just Volkswagen that will struggle.
It is not a chinese brands that is problem for german ones, but Tesla
Just read a article....record goal demand in 2023. Like they say if you think you dum. Remember there is a tesla driver who thinks his savings the world
Spot on with your thoughts on the potential political effects of this disruption in Europe Sam.
I’m sure we will see the rise of the right again in the US this election cycle due to similar factors.
The energy disruption is getting much faster now, consequences for inaction coming home to roost.
Much unrest to come, fingers crossed calmer head’s prevail.
Merry Christmas to you and family mate so many thanks for your work.
Germany is no longer competitive for car manufacturing. Tariffs are disastrous for any country.
INSTEAD OF GOING TO INDIA WITH SOFTWARE PROBLEMS BECAUSE INDIA IS LEADER IN SOFTWARE. VW WENT TO CHINA.
The Germans need to start thanking their lucky stars that Tesla chose to locate THERE. Tesla may Ironically, become the only Truely made GERMAN auto company. They should be breaking barriers down for them and EMBRACE them as their own.
Chinese BYD is making electric cars in Hungary. .. after BYD electric bus manufacturing history in Hungary...so Von Der Leyen must looking into Hungary subsidies in Hungary..
It’s no one’s fault that they failed to adapt. Now they’re on the way to the dodo.
People will only buy one cheap Chinese car.
By which time their 3 year old LHD lease hire is long gone on the ship going back.
Got to get them out faster before people catch on.
Put your money into the ships for a win win.
In the long term, only your quality of decision matters. EU always made bad decision in every turn after cold war is over. I haven't seen them did the right thing. By right thing, I mean good for themselves.
"By forming joint ventures with Chinese EV companies German companies could acquire the technologies they need to become competitive" - HAH! They're doing nothing of the sort!
German companies are paying hundreds of billions of Euros to Chinese firms to outsource EV development, design & production entirely to China. VW, BMW & Mercedes will be reduced to re-branding Chinese EVs as their own: they've signed agreements to become dealers for Chinese EVs.
This is the end of German auto manufacturing, and with it, the end of Germany as a manufacturing juggernaut. Germany will cease to have an industrial economy of any size at all. It's the end of Germany as we know it, and as a major force in the EU.
It's a masterful play by China in it's long campaign of War by other means. Hard to see how the EU avoids becoming irrelevant.
AGMetal caused them to do this. China made sure auto manufacturing is a low-pay effort. Tariffs can help flatten the difference, but not 100%.
Japanese are in the same sinking boat.
In that clip of the woman filling the car with petrol she never put the fuel cap back on :-) Dohhh obviously a staged picture shoot.
Anyone who does NOT need a pick up truck to haul heavy loads and can afford an EV (new or used) is insane to keep on buying new(!) ICE vehicles, as those ICE vehicles will be worth very little in 5 years.
I understand where you are coming from, but that dynamic is very complex and it may not happen that way. Except with the really pricey ones like Mercedes and BMW.
Personally, I have been looking at used BEVs but unfortunately Teslas in CANADA are still stupidly expensive USED unless they have so much mileage and age that you worry about the pack health. And the absolute lack of repairability (uh huh, tell me you give a crap Elon, we all know you don't). Tesla is the iPhone of cars in SOOO many ways.
I think I won't touch an EV until i.) there is one I can afford NEW, ii.) there is an aftermarket pack and general repair service or iii.) batteries get so cheap that nobody cares much about the cost of the pack
Wait until Elon shuts off somebody's car because they installed an aftermarket pack - you KNOW he will.
The words luxury automated socialism springs to mind, whats next ? 😊
Western companies: just keep your brands, like the Swiss did with their clocks
Swiss watches are a good example. The Swiss watch industry was actually down in the 1980s because Japanese manufacturers came up and were able to produce high quality watches at low costs. Swiss watches were still being made manually at that time. It changed when Nicolas G. Hayek invested heavily in the Swiss watch industry, buying established manufacturers and then standardisizing clockworks and automatisizing their producion. With newly found Swatch, he offered a fashionable and even cheaper alternative to Japanese watches. That's how the Swiss watch industry was solved - by unification, innovation and automatisation. I wouldn't surprised to see a merger between Volkswagen, Daimler or BMW in the future.
Don’t make that kinda explode topic, I totally disagree with that, EVs in our country will take over Japanese carmakers not Germany coz our target customers are pretty much the same, whose looking for inexpensive good quality cars , unlike German carmakers who made expensive premium cars, our target customers are way different
It is the difference between gigacasting and no gigacasting.
Tesla, Chinese manufacturers and Toyota/ Lexus bed on gigacasting. European manufacturers and Usa manufacturers bed on old design methods, Ice's with a big battery pack..... . That's not the future😢😢😢. 2nd difference, no Unions in China......in Europe and the Usa, the manufacturers needs restructering asap but are blocked by the Unions.... .
Please let us use rightful words -less emotive words to promote the well being of European people at work.Germany has challenges yes, however let us look at how Germany wss rebuilt after the war..this is a nation that works, understands the value of education, discipline and tge importance of curating the environment.
The renewables industry is founded in significant part on method brought to life by German tax and research institutes.🎉
Max Planc , Frauenhofer, Aachen Electical Faculty at tUniversity of Aachen.
Siemens, Sunnyboy, Varta are all names received globally.
Which words or phrases are you objecting to?
@@markjonz All of the true ones. 😂
Germany is no longer inhabited by Germans and not ruled by Germans.
The Germans were over confident and too slow. Only Tesla can compete.
German 🇩🇪 cars are the best 🏆🎉🎊😃👊 🤝
😂😂😂😂😂
US and European subsidiaries are much worse. So they should stop complaining. They had the monopoly over some of these products. So they could force developing countries to pay a premium on them even if they weren't not the best.
tesla is selling more cars in europe than china. what about that?
Excepty that now the guvment has removed incentives and tax relief (etc, etc - what happened to "EVs can complete on a level field?") the German EV market has crashed. Because without those, EVs are simply not worth the money to most people. If you are going to tell a story, how about tell all of it?
I think this video is being subsidized by whoever's writing this guy script. His videos don't usually sound like this
The strategy around using China as a manfacturing base for EVs from a range of auto manufacturers is a flawed one. The Chinese communist government is all about what's in their national interest, monopolizing the manfacture of cheap, subsidized EVs to the greatest extent possible is one such interest and not in the interest of western nations and their local car industry. China's "Electric Vehicle Revolution" is more a resolution to simply exploit a market opportunity to their advantage. Western democratic countries and businesses have clearly not learned the lessons of history and risks of over reliance on communist China as a cheap manufacturing base.
american wake up to it long time ago, its just european still dont want to face the fact regarding this issue. but eventually they will come to the same conclusion any ways. china r just dumping what the american didn't buy to the european market. thats why their trade deficit vs china had sky rocketed over the past couple years. eventually they will impose tariff, nobody will take these type of mercantilism in 2020s.
The gloves are off. The legacy auto monopoly is over and EVs are here, like it or not.
When Tesla set up a gigafactory in Germany the Germans didn't like it.
Everything I've been thinking for years is becoming true. Ww3 will be started because German industry will go down and they'll find a minority to blame like they always have. Germans will German.
Germans have great work ethic at least compared to many other Europeans. I am pretty sure they will find a way to adjust, like they have done in the past even if Chinese cars really take over. Although I still think some legacy automakers can sort it out, China will still lack consumer trust to its cars in Europe for a while and Chinese cars still have their own small kinks that Europeans do not like that much, also over optimistic promises when it comes to range as an example
Have you been to Germany? They still fax each other there. Wifi is not everywhere and cash is a thing. People have to wait in line to buy train tickets. Doesn't seem like they adjust well.
They are too proud of their "germanness" to adjust, which will be their downfall. And they'll drag everyone along with it. We've experienced it before.
If people think they've changed, let's talk again in the 40s.
It won't be world wars but regional wars...i have a feeling in the far east it will be the Japanese who starts it against China due to gett8ng beaten down economically by China (writing is on the wall)...