The *REAL* Problems With Electric Cars... An Honest Discussion in a KIA E-Niro [VLOG / WAFFLE]
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- Опубликовано: 19 ноя 2019
- Today I'm having a bit of a rant about electric cars - some of the reasons they are failing, but in my mind don't deserve to - and a few where they need to improve.
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I think the passenger was being held against their will.this needs reporting.
She's a bored and unhappy hitchhiker who can't wait to get out at the next charging point (if he finds one) in a few miles. Hopefully she managed to get a word in and say goodbye to him.
She just hitched a ride thinking it was Top Gear
Listening to him waffling on is the price she pays for a trip to Scotland. And he has told her his You-tubing is going to make them rich, so she is shopping in her head...
Its a commuter lane dummy...
@Scott Franco
My first thought when I saw the cut to the passenger compartment shot was “Why would you put a speechless, expressionless dummy/person beside you in a car, especially one dressed so oddly, while you’re making a RUclips video?”
#Creepy
He’s wearing a short-sleeved shirt with palm trees on it, whereas she (assuming female) is wearing a large winter scarf around her neck...
Well, was it warm that day or cold??? Maybe it is a dummy that only needs one set of clothing, so it doesn’t matter?
Charging EV is cheap now enjoy while it lasts, Governments will increase the price to recoup lost fuel duty/ VAT as EV’s ownership reaches a certain level.
Taxing charging is really difficult. Most people charge home so you haw to tax electricity generally.
@@mmikael281 It will be done via a mileage tax. One day you'll do your safety inspection and the guy will get your odometer reading. Next year or whenever you'll repeat the process to register the car and you'll be presented with a bill for the number of miles you've driven.
@@mmikael281 inn the UK we are getting smart meters and it is not beyond the realms of possibility that legislation will force car manufacturers to notify the meter when the car is charging and apply a higher rate.
@S F If you think that's going to trick the computer you're f'ing crazy. The TCM talks to the ECM and the BCM all together they must talk to each other so unless you're going to hack the system to change the mileage you're SOL.
@S F First you have to find out where the data is held, ,pray to God it isn't encrypted, and what format the data is in. It'd take some time and even still they may just do a graduated rate based off of the circumstances the owner. Single or married...One car or two...daily driver vs garage queen..or just say all EV Registrations are now X which is significantly more expensive than an ICE which burns gas/diesel which has an associated road tax.
My neighbour has a new electric car and found out all the problems the hard way
1. Theres no drive ways here so you can't charge your car on your property and the cord has to run across the pavement.
2. The only place for a charging port is inside the house so you have to run the wire through an open window (its very cold here).
3. They don't charge quickly so if you suddenly find yourself needing to go to work or drive more than expected, you've got a problem.
4. Theres no charging stations here so you can't recharge anywhere
5. Even if you could charge at a station (that has yet to exist), no one has the time to sit around for 30 minutes + in their car waiting for a reasonable charge to continue their journey, its just not practical.
Its like googles plan to play games exclusively online on all kinds of platforms... but forgetting that most people don't have internet speeds even remotely close to whats needed for this to be possible.. Electric cars are the future... providing your lifestyle checks 10/10 boxes, otherwise its a major hinderance to whats already available..
What about driving with the air con on or with the heater on when it is freezing, also with the radio on , do's this all effect the range ?
@Edward Gross the higherups dont think people who live high up dont need car
@Edward Gross driving at night in cold weather with the stereo on ,using all these functions must hit the car some what.
Does your neighbour write for the Daily Mail by any chance?
@John Smithy Agreed. But if you listen to the tree huggers you have to have an EV or you're not human and probably one of those cult Trump supporters. I'm tired of these people. When the process is mainstream I would be for it. At this point it's not practical for a lot of people.
Can I just use 2 of your quotes here.... “ an ordinary , basic , boring car”.... “ £30,000”......
So every petrol car above 25.000 Pounds is an extreme F1 Style racing car?
Or is it maybe that some drivers prefer a car that is cheep to run so that it over time it costs as much as a 15.000 Pound car?
@@bb-ballistics1706
Why would it depreciate?
Your diesel ages fast after only 300.000km it is worthless, an electric car can easily last 500.000km than with a new battery another 800.000km and then another 1.000.000 km.
While you would be on your 10th diesel, if you still would get fuel.
@@bb-ballistics1706
You can't just take rules from gas gars and throw them on evs, the reason gas cars depreciate is, that the engine suffers wear and tear everywhere and the older the car the higher the rate of major repairs.
So if you want to sell an old combustion enigen car, even if the car is technically only a bit behind the modern one, the simple fact that the new car will likely cost less to maintain for the next 200.000 km than the old one makes them loose value.
Electric cars do not have this issue, electric motors can run for many million km and decades if build right, batteries have still a lower lifetime but that is still growing fast.
A bev bought today will probably need a battery in 15 to 20 years, but that will be one with 2035 to 2040 technology.
So a lot cheaper and way bigger and durable than today.
Meaning that your then old 2020s bev will have the range of a 2035 bev and power is already not an issue.
Imagine you could take your old diesel in 2025, go to a shop and get a modern 2025 diesel engine with more power, and less fuel consumption build in within a day or two and for about 2000pounds.
The only problem a 2021 bev might have, could be that in 2025 and later no cars are sold that can't drive themselves and so nobody really wants a nonselfdriving car.
But that will hit every car the same and also won't happen that often.
@@bb-ballistics1706
There are massive difference in depreciation.
In an electric car you have a few bearings and no other moving parts.
In a gas engine you have not only a lot more bearings but also valves, pumps, gears, as well as sliding parts and a lot of them are under insane use.
Just think how often a piston goes up and down. Even at a calm 1500 RPM it goes up and down 25 Times a second.
If you Rev up to 5000 RPM that are 83 ups and downs per second.
All that wears the engine down, then you can add a lot of gasket and all of that is heated up and cooled down again and again.
That also makes warranty a lot less important. You mostly would need that for the first miles and weeks to be save that there aren't any production errors.
And sure you wouldn't get 30.000pounds for a used EV when a new one costs the same. But 20.000 pounds or even 25.000 pounds would be definitely a god deal for an equal 5 year old car compared to a new one.
And you think way to much in past experiences. Yes the Leaves did not get their cells replaced.
But that is not a surprise, they are few and far between and also use specialized punch cells.
most of them are from around 2012, how many EVs could you get back there.
Now the numbers climp fast, if you buy a car in 2021 and the battery dies in 2036, there will be a gigant marked around EVs including battery replacement and refurbishment.
All while the cost of packs and cells will drop further.
In 2012 the price per KWh was about 8 times what it is today. 1191$ per KWh and today 137$ per KWh.
Tesla and VW already announced to reduce it another 40 to 50% till 2025.
So a replacement pack for a Leav with around 50KWh (original
@@Ismalith I think you're thinking we're living in the Victorian era in which things were designed to last. EV's simply too new in relative terms, and let's not forget corporate greed and planned obsolescence..
Early EV's needing battery replacements were outrageous cost wise, and with talk of embedding batteries within the chassis..well, sound cheap and practical for those altruistic companies to upgrade on the cheap (not!) Doesn't it???
Kind of with the OP on this, in that if you've lucky enough to find and have a cheap £2k diesel, keep it for now.
EV's will have generational leaps in features and capabilities, but in turn depreciation WILL be worse than established ICE vehicles.
We've got 3 years left of our diesel loan wise.
Most i spent was £12k. Only used for school runs and food shopping really.
Simply not dropping £30k (lease or pure loan) on an EV of avg quality. will keep our main diesel running until 2025-26.
Even then, and assuming this lvl of EV is available at £20k makes it a hard sell.
Only way is if the UK Gov In the run up to the 2030 end of new ICE sales, ramps up fossil fuel prices / adds congestion charges to all cities town and villages, while making road tax 20 fold..
I don’t think your passenger likes electric cars , she looks well pissed off 😤
To be fair, I probably wouldn't be too happy if I had to sit there completely silent with a load of camera equipment right in my face, listening to someone yap on and on.
Maybe it's not the car that's annoying her...
I don't think it's the car
He is probably about to get a slap.
Rob BURROWS 😂 👍🏽
I have a Hyundai Kona EV and nearly always charge at home. On long journeys I have learned one thing. Avoid Ecotricity!
Explain, please? x
I have never had a problem with ecotricity ccs at south mimes or cobham.
I have a Kona as well and have many issues with Allego in NL. I had to fast charge 5 times in the last 3 months. 3 times at fastnet, which are in super condition, work and have an excellent UI. However I had to use Allego 2 times, they look like they'll fall apart, the ui is horrendous. First time the charger wouldn't disengage no matter what I did I had to hit the emergency stop. The second time I tried them ALL their DC chargers were defunct and they had no idea when they'd get em up and running again.
Neil Brandon The poster and the video was stating the inflated prices of the Ecotricity system at the Services, not so much they do not work, just inflated charges(costs)
Why free charging, somebody has to pay, including petrol car drivers, nothing is free!
@Moon Dog Sure, sunshine is free, but converting sunshine into electricity is inefficient and expensive.
An enticement to buy. It absolutely will not be free forever. Count on it.
@Moon Dog it wasn't really free. You paid for it in the price of the car. And it only applied to model S and X which are very expensive cars.
@@bubba842 And still the Tesla cars beat the combustion cars at the same price point while making great margins that the combustion cars do not get close to.
Its called bait.
Motorway services charge more for all kinds of fuel, be it electric, petrol, food, coffee or whatever. It's always been the case.
@Brush Twice they don't charge £5 per litre for petrol. Your comparison is stupid
@@ralphclark I didn't mention a price, simply stated a fact.
Hereabouts (Australia,) Service Stations are on at least retail+23%. Sweeties. Calling them 'service' stations was and is a Joke:-) An EV owner buying stuff there would indicate gullibility in the extreme if the electricity wasn't free.
do they charge for dead animal collection?..that could be my food for the week?
They have to charge more, because there will be vat at 20% not 5% like at home, and I am assuming they will be charging fuel duty.
In all these reviews re EV's no one wishes to discuss the life span of the LI batteries, their replacement cost, nor on the effect it will have on the resale value of a used motor car. As far as I can tell, there will not be a used car market as the battery bank replacement will (at its current pricing) surpass fifty percent of the value of the average used motor car. Potential buyers will be loathed to purchase a used motor car, knowing that its batteries will need to be replaced shortly. Ultimately, these unsellable motor cars will be scrapped, or sold for parts since there will be no market for them. The used motor car market will cease to exist in its present form.
The used car is a dying thing anyway - I very rarely see people driving cars older than 15 years. In the last decade in particular, we've seen a real shift. Young people are now too proud to drive around a £500 shitbox, they'd rather pay £200 a month for a Fiesta that is basically rented. That's just how the world is going.
There is a healthy market for used Tesla Model S's, you'll be hardpressed to find one less the 25.000 pounds. So the resale value is quite good. In regards to the battery, most batteries off said car lasts well over the lifespan of regular ICE cars which will only increase with newer EV's.
There are off course examples of other EV's which have batteries with a much shorter lifespans, that will off have its effect on the resale value.
So there are loads of examples and a lot of people are talking about it, so perhaps you are looking in the wrong places for that kind of information?
@@kevintieman3616 Thanks Kevin for the information, however, I stand by my comments.
There’s so much fake news around the subject of battery longevity. There are already well documented examples of Tesla Model S cars doing over 200,000 miles on the original battery but perhaps a better idea of expected life are the warranties given by manufacturers. These are based on number of charge cycles you can expect before losing an appreciable amount of range. Cars with active TMS systems such as Tesla, Hyundai, Kia and Jaguar seem more confident than those using simple air cooling such as Renault and Nissan, though even those seem to be lasting the course. People who understand this kind of thing (battery chemistry, operating temperatures, effects of different charge modes etc) reckon that 1,500 full charge cycles is what you should expect before your range drops below 90% of the original. With the e-Niro I add about 250 km every time I charge so that’s 375,000 km (232,500 miles)...Your petrol or diesel engine is pretty much knackered by that time and will have no value. Your LiON battery will see another 10 to 15 years use for LV grid backup before it finally goes for recycling
somebody has to pay the "free" charging.
Wait until the governments need to recover the tax revenue that they get form petrol, they've raised taxes in the name of saving the planet, but they can't operate without all that tax money coming in.
Yes,the store you do your shoppin pays
@@fiveowaf454 gov will just raize the tax on petrol and co2 car tax on ice cars.
Why i say this? Ice cars wont go away for like 20-30 years
Its gonna be like with cigarettes, raize the price till people stop buyng,but they might never stop buyng
@@UnipornFrumm People usually only stop buying cigarettes when they die from smoking related problems. Smokers are now in a minority. Once the turning point is reached, when new electric car sales exceed those of ICE cars, then a system of road tolls will be introduced. And you may well find that those with ICE cars end up paying road tolls *and* the duty on fuel....unless the Government relents, and removes all fuel duty from petrol, But I can't see that, because it will encourage more unnecessary use of polluting vehicles. The Treasurery will want it's pound of flash right up until the last i.c. car goes to the crusher.
@@Brian-om2hh if you think smokers are a minority,then i dont live where you live
Having been a breakdown and recovery driver I can categorically say that once these have been in a serious accident I and my fellow drivers would not touch them with a bargepole due to NO training from the manufacturers as to how to check if the vehicle has actually become live, the charge these vehicles carry will kill a man. Would you going to touch it to see if the bodywork is live?
In the US, I have heard that firefighters (jaws of life) had training to make sure a EV car is de-powered before they begin operation -- I _think_ there is some kind of standard on this -- yellow tagged wires in the trunk that you pull to physically disconnect the battery?
But that being said, just because you pull a wire in a crashed auto doesn't mean it's not somehow shorted out somewhere else. This whole thing *IS* a newish problem they've have to worry with. You can smell gas but not voltage, and that's NOT just a 1.5V 1A D-cell battery you're dealing with.
@@aeio_ Holy hells, there's a side of this I've never seen brought up before, how has this *never* been mentioned
Hi, ok, can you explain how, if I'm stood on the ground and touch the car I get an electric shock?
@@davandbre The issue is, if you don't know the frame has a charge running through it, and you grab it with both hands, now you have a charge running through both arms, across your chest. Your heart runs on electricity, and it only takes 100 and 200 mA (0.1 to 0.2 amp) to be lethal.
@@Lucklaran Yes, when that electrical system is ground to earth, so I complete the circuit through my body to earth. But if the battery positive was touching the bodywork, it wouldn't complete the circuit to ground, only to the negative terminal?
Some petrol driven cars have problems but very, very few will need a full engine change.
However EVERY electric car will need to replace the battery - some a lot sooner than others.
AutoExpertTV in Australia recently highlighted a Nissan Leaf having done 80,000km which began to experience a drastic drop in range and I mean DRASTIC. 40km or 25 if you use the heater !!!
But the battery can be replaced - for which Nissan quoted 33,000 dollars [Australian)
Electric vehicles have got a long way to go before I buy one [and I don't only mean better range]
Ive just replaced the battery in my.....petrol engine automobile! $150 vs thousands......for the EV!
ruclips.net/video/L_zdtaJeYmw/видео.html
Of course the Nissan example was not to do with electric cars but about a mechanic ripping off a customer and poor service from Nissan. This is one of the major points of this video when he talks about consumers being ripped off for charging on the motorways. You have technology but then you have business models which can confuse and rip people off. It is really important to define between the two.
The leaf is a rubbish design. Teslas are getting getting more than than 800 000 kms.
They should come out with some alternative clean fuel that we can use in our petrol and diesel cars.
This sort of thinking amongst new tech start ups: “charge 💵 first (preferably on a subscription basis), ask questions later” is terrible
If electric cars start to become as common as ICE cars governments will move fuel tax to EVs and the economics will really change. IMO to drive private cars off the road altogether.
Martin Cole already doing that in Washington state. They're trying to pass a law that charges EVs like an extra $150 a year because of fuel taxes. It's off putting to buy an ev. It's still better for the environment and cheaper for the year than a gas car but it's annoying. Not sure if it passed or not though.
Every vehicle should be taxed per mile/ kilometer at a GVW category.
That is, as close to a Fair system , as you can reasonably get.
Pay for the road wear that you cause.
@@reasonablespeculation3893 Not even remotely fair and hideously complex to track and tax. If you want a perfectly fair system, you would track usage by road and weight of the vehicle. So if you and a few other people are the only ones that use a given road you are going to have a hefty tax bill. Those in the cities will pay very little per person as their roads are heavily used. Weight is also the only real cause for road wear. 80k lbs tractor trailers would pay a majority of the highway road taxes since passenger cars cause basically no wear.
As you can see a "fair" system would be very complex and make driving basically unreasonable for anyone. So instead, break vehicles up into classes and charge them more based on weight class. To make the tax progressive, charge more expensive vehicles more and cheap cars less. This sound familiar? Yeah it's basically the tag fee you already have. Just roll about ~$85/year to $300/year depending on the existing $0.18 to $0.60 gas tax in your state with a multiplier for weight and be done with it. This would "fairly" cover everyone with the least expense and fraud collecting the tax.
@@keshmo12 Seems fair. Like you said, this is a trivial amount and is really $100 less than you would pay in a gas car. Washington has a $0.50/gallon gas tax which would be $250/year on average.
@@keshmo12 Your're just swapping one environmental for another.
Range of combustion cars is less important, because you can fill up in 5 minutes. I have no patience for waiting for a charge.
Better to provide battery swaps.
@@millomweb I've thought about that. Standardized throughout the industry, like the propane tanks are swapped out, with a test setup that retires old batteries that fall below a point agreed upon. You pull up, back up, whatever, and a robotic arm swaps out the drained battery, sets it up to recharge. The whole thing would be arranged in a way that is as convenient as the gas pumps.
@@soco13466 The other 'no-brainer' is to have EV lanes on interstates/motorways with electric pickup - to not only propel the vehicle (trucks included) but to recharge the batteries you need for the lesser roads at each end of the journey.
Electric pick-up's been done with trains and trolley buses for decades. So why not cars and trucks on specific routes ?
Oh, good then. You need less then 5 minutes (well you need to get to the petrol station first as well) to plug in the car at home. Next day it will be full. Imagine how often you would need to go to the petrol station if you could start every day with a full tank.
@@soco13466 The only problem with this idea, is that somebody needs to pay for all the equipment to maintain the swap machines/robots and they are going to want to make a profit on all that electricity they are supplying. Now you are back to paying way more dollars per mile than you are currently paying to the Oil Companies. You will be paying all that money to save you 20 minutes when you take that rare long trip once or twice a year? With a proper Fast charging station, and a capable EV you will be able to charge most modern EVs within 30 minutes (or less) once or twice per day on those rare longer trips. Also, you could rent a Gas Car for those rare long trips if you really don't want to stop on your journey.
Btw.
You can convert your petrol or diesel engine to natural gas for about 3-4000 euros and the state will pay 33% of the cost (here). Your car will be warm during winter months and the range will always be the same despite the cold temperature.
Kia engineered the initial take off to be like that to stop it shredding tyres. It's not an inherent trait of EVs.
True. Nissan Leaf has a similar mode called ECO Mode which softens or inserts a bit of hysteresis into the pedal. You can set it for raw EV or "D" mode and it gets a bit too perky which can actually be a bit tiresome after a while. Softening the pedal during take off also helps to save energy since electric motors will pull excessive current initially until they start spinning.
yet it still wheel spins like crazy...
The torque is the reason why EVs cannot be front drive but really need to be rear drive (the ID3 does this right) - or even better AWD.
@@_TbT_ Lots of front drive EVs exist though...
@@0ooTheMAXXoo0 They might exist, that doesn't mean they should exist. ;-)
Nothing is ever for free. Somebody pays.
Exactly - probably all householders with an electricity supply.
When you buy an ecar, you are committed. Soon after that charging is no more free.
Do you pay for sunshine? Who do you pay?
@kkthxk That's what happened to me when I was making biodiesel. After all the work of collecting oil, picking up 55 gallon drums of methanol, 50 pound bags of lye it was a ton of work processing it into usable fuel and right about the time I realized I was using nearly all my fuel to pick up oil and other products I start hearing about other people that were doing it and getting charged road use tax which wasn't based on what you actually drove it was based on what a bureaucrat decided what you might have possibly driven. I did it because it was cool, real science and to save money. I knew it wasn't going to save the planet and then sure enough Indonesia started mowing down large swaths of rain forest to plant "palm oil plants" which deplete the soil for many years. Talk about an unintended consequence!
@kkthxk You actually *DO* pay for sunshine then ? brutal. Can you show receipts? This is kind of phenomonal. What country doe sthis?
It's good to hear a well thought through opinion from someone who is well informed, relatively unbiased and who has personal experience. Thank you.
My pleasure
You have convinced me to NOT get a EV for at least another 10 years, that way they should have ironed out all the problems.
Big problem is charging, like people who live in terrace houses, like most of the UK, how do they charge?
Or flats
Exactly, I've often thought the same.
Totally agree. My mum got put off buying a Plug-In Hybrid because she couldn’t charge it at home. Just got herself a normal Petrol instead.
@@redyellowpink01 a lot of places are adding charging points to parking areas around and for the flats
And not only that, a lot of people who live in flats or terraced houses won't be able to afford a £30,000 car. They buy ten year old or more cars, and by that time the electric car will basically be scrap with a battery on it's last legs.
Only £33,000. I'm out
Save money!!! Its virtue signalling for the rich.
Philip Moran and all the people telling us what to do are pushing renewables which is pushing up the price of electricity! Just another scam
@@drealist7941 Solar is part of renewables. There is more than enough energy from solar to cover energy needs of cars. Since electric cars are much more efficient than ICE, thee would be actually less energy used than with just the total of petroleum and electricity. Its a shame that so many people only consider economics (somewhat important) and not environment.
Greg man2ai I don’t see how ev are better for the environment
To build an ev is worse for the planet than an ice vehicle! And you can’t charge with solar at night unless you fork out for batteries
@@drealist7941 If there is no recycling any vehicle is bad for the environment when it is dumped. Charging during daylight hours would just take a little organisation and when the vehicle was left plugged in after a days use would supplement peak hours electricity usage.
It'll be interesting to see how EVs cope with being second-hand vehicles.
And how independant mechanics will need to change in order to deal with them.
You're a little bit behind. Training courses are already available for those mechanics whom wish to retrain. Both guys in my local village garage are certified to work on electric vehicles. EV's also seem to be in strong demand on the used market. Usually, EV specific dealers ( yes, they already exist) are often able to offer a print-out of battery health. Most EV's carry an 8 year battery warranty anyway, so even a 4 or 5 year old example will have several years battery warranty left.
And three times as long to charge, all to reduce a plant food in the atmosphere.
I never said the plants are dying. But since I care about the plants then I won't be the one eating oil. I notice you quietly avoided the long charge times for EV's. That's ok, you can wait a while as you charge your EV and save the planet from a plant food gas, while I'm done in 60 secs at the bowser !
I honestly HATE this "mini-suv" segment or whatever you should call it. How can anyone buy a car like this over an ordinary hatchback??
Easier to enter, better overview of the road now everyone drives them. Slightly more cargo space, if you top it off.
I can see the reasons, but it should not cost much extra in metal added.
Imagine road tax were more hefty and all about height*width*length. Progressive rate, of course.
Crossovers I hate them Lol
I don’t think this is an SUV, I’ve seen them in person and they are more of mini-estates, mostly because of their dimensions and proportion. Regardless, small SUVs are the worst category of car there is
@@Cloxxki They are uglier, slower, worse handling and less economic than an equivalent hatch
Because they are better, more comfortable, higher driving position makes long distances easier, easier to get in and out of, easier to put kids seats into, more practical, you don’t spend all day scraping your arse along the floor. I can’t fathom why anyone would buy shitty little hatchback over a crossover unless it’s the hot hatch version.
If you just want a car to get from a to b in comfort, a crossover is the best option.
That said I’m a big car person, why anyone would by a shitty little hatchback Is beyond me anyway. Big cars ride better and are more comfortable, hatchbacks are cheaper but there’s a reason for that.
It's the nose dive in value that screwed me over and scared me back to petrol.
It's the same thing that scares you about buying a used mobile with a sealed in battery, a lot of its capacity is going to be gone. Except with a car the effect of capacity loss is going to be a big problem and I bet they are not too cheap to replace. That said maybe the lack of engine maintenance costs will offset a lot of that?
Great way to sum up. You echo my thoughts completely. I’ve driven ev’s but still waiting to buy one.
It was good to see the East Neuk of Fife in this video! I hope you enjoyed your time in Scotland and the weather was kind to you! Did you get the chance to visit the best chippy in Anstruther for a fish supper? The one overlooking the harbour.
Thank you! This was very helpful in my decision making process :)
Very good rant! I love EVs but can’t afford one the size I need.
Once again, good presentation, interseting content and lots of intersting camera angles. Finally subscribed.
£33,000 reasonable 😂😂😂🤪
Those on an average income, and living in the more affluent areas of the SE may consider £33,000 good value.
Unfortunately, for a lot of us, £33,000 is a lot of money, so EVs are still far too expensive for most of us.
Why try and encourage people into EV if most of us cannot afford one
Thats a Golf and 8 years of petrol for it and that's assuming electric is no cost .
Peter Lewis new Renault Zoe goes 230 ish real miles for just over £20k
@@domtdoodar99 battery extra... 230 more like 150
Tesla Trevor depends how you drive, but you can quite easily expect to get 200 out of it in bad conditions
Here in Melbourne Australia, in summer if everyone turns on the air con at the same time, the drain on the grid means they sometimes have to shut the power off because it cant meet the demand. I hate to see what happens when millions of cars are all plugging in.
For electric cars sales take off they have got to realistically priced. When they are below £10,000 with a 250-mile range then they'll become a genuine alternative for the masses.
How many ICE cars are available at less than 10 grand? And how many of them would people want to drive?
@@bryandavies6074 Plenty in low income regions like where i live in Southeast Asia.
@@ahaaaaaaaaa And? How many new ICE cars are available for less than 10k? The 10k is unrealistic compared to a new ICE car cost. There are plenty of low income areas throughout the world. But the number of new ICE cars available at low cost to them is minimal.
@@bryandavies6074 Not new. Old. Second hand.
@@ahaaaaaaaaa Yeah... that's what will push the 2030/2035 targets back. The availability of cheap used EVs. On a practical level they have less moving parts and lower service costs than ICE cars. There's also a scenario of demand outstripping supply: and people aren't trading them in like they do ICE motors. It's going to be a while before we see sub 10k s/h EVs.
My biggest concern about electric cars is where will all the rare elements needed for the batteries come from. I think this will be a big issue once every car needs these huge batteries.
Depending on the time of year, using headlights, heating, phone for satnav, that's all battery drain. And electric is still fossil fuelled. Then add on fuelling times in real time and distance. I can fill my F31 in a couple of minutes and loads of fuel stations and get the best part of 600 miles. Electric? How many filling stations can have enough space for 20 cars all topping up for 30 minutes to do another 100 miles? EV is great for your nan to go to the shops...
Interesting stuff (although I disagree with you on electric cars) - very informative and as is so often the case you point out the nonsense that we read/see other reviewers say, e.g. the 'instant torque'.
But who buys a 30 grand car to 'save money'?
Honestly I do...if youve ever had to drive into central London everyday not paying the £11 for the 22 days I go in makes the car cheaper when you add the free to charge networks in mind
@@cz9860 Yup, there will be some people who live in London, or similar big cities with such rules who are wealthy enough for this to be an option for them instead of taking public transport. But public transport is the far better option for big cities.
Also, most people don't live in London, and most Londoners don't drive to work. And a great number of them don't have driveways where they can charge their cars.
Face it, they buy them to virtue signal. Okay, right now you get some free tolls, and some tax breaks, in essence a bribe to get one of these over priced cars, but how long till those go away? Then where is your savings? Also, electric to charge is not, or will not, remain free, sure it will probably always be cheaper, but then you must factor in your time waiting to charge. No thanks.
@@jamie49868 fair point but each person's situation is different. Personally the amount I pay for an electric car and the travelling I do to and from London means the car actually ends up paying me after I get the rebates and all. Because of the nature of my work public transport isn't an option. So until I start having to pay for charging and congestion fee and ulez. I'm drinking the electric coolade all day
@@cz9860 Cool! Whatever works for you. That's why they sell red cars and blue cars - gasoline, diesel and electric cars - they even sell bicycles and motor cycles. Peace!
I found it interesting that you found some charging stations that charged enough per kwh so as to make the electricity just as expensive to drive as gasoline in terms of how far you can drive relative to how much you spend to fill/charge up. I've never heard of that situation here in the States but I won't be surprised at all how quickly that situation comes around as electrics become more main stream.
Here is the other issue that no one seems to bring up. The batteries are drastically effected by severe temperatures, cold and hot. Last winter here in the USA several Automobile executives driving electric vehicles were shocked (I'm not sure why) that the range was drastically reduced with severe cold. I live in the South where the heat plays a big part in battery life. Electric vehicle range is also altered by running heat or AC. So unless you live in a sweet spot for climate, you will be running your heat or AC. Just wanted to put that out there since no one seems to be talking about real world conditions.
Right. In the warm months, the excess heat of a gas engine is a penalty. In the winter; it is essentially a free and vital commodity. It takes a lot of cabin-heat to take a long winter trip in Michigan.
What an informative and insightful video. Great job and thanks for your work.
If it cost 1/3 of the amount it would have in a petrol car to do those miles, taking into account the tax on petrol and no tax on the electricity (presumably) then surely it was at least as expensive? (Or it will be once EV "fuel" starts to be taxed the same way as petrol.)
Also, I don't like the way all of these free charging points are "free". I mean, who's subsidising that? Why should I pay for other people's transport as a householder with an electricity bill when I might not even have a car, less an EV?
In Germany electricity is heavier taxed than fossil fuel. In fact, a big amount of money is taken by the EEG-contribution. That's based on a law that used to be meant to help renewable energy until our conservative party reworked it to redirect 60% of the income to fossil plants and to subsidize energy-intensive industries.
Charging will stop being free once plenty of people are using it through, Im sure. Its going to hit a brick wall of electricity supply as soon as they start to become widespread. There’s not even close enough supply to replace oil-based transport with electricity yet.
@@P_Diddly charging at shopping centers (or similar) will certainly stay free to attract customers. But almost anywhere else it's already not free anymore. People often underestimate the capabilities of the electric networks and that they can drastically improve their performance with punctual upgrades. A Transition to EVs would take decades, even if you would stop selling ICE-Cars today - time enough for electric networks to adjust.
I have solar panels on my house, are these enough to charge one of these?
Quicksilver no
Great video Jay! I think electric cars are absolutely perfect for people who view the automobile as appliance. It's ideal for folks who just want to commute and run errands.
I hope internal combustion engines will still be available for petrolheads. High performance cars don't get driven all that much anyway (I don't think), so the impact from this small number of vehicles may be quite minimal.
Cheers!
Most of my vehicles have exceeded 250,000 miles life. In the case of Oldsmobile Toronados, bodies were deteriorating while the engines were still good, no oil burn or anything. Bullet-proof transmissions. My current Acadias are now 250,000 km and going strong. The issue of replacing batteries in electric vehicles becomes an issue and for those of us who deal with lithium battery technology, they are a nightmare. It ain't cell phones folks. And how long do you think electric plug-in points are going to be FREE??? With Europe now complaining about energy poverty, the days of free-bee electricity are nearly over. Someone has to pay the piper. If electrics ever become truly popular, you now have congestion at charge points that become a MAJOR issue. Think long lineups like we experienced in 1973 with the so-called fuel shortages that were completely manufactured, with gas rationing in full play. Think electric rationing now. And this is a better world? Talk about a step backward. And what happens when you run out of power on the freeway? A charge vehicle (petrol powered of course) comes to rescue you, along with the dozen or so others who have also run out of power, and huge roadblocks occur. (Think Los Angeles at rush hour, only way worse.) Be prepared to spend hours in your vehicle while you can't get to work and your power runs out. For now, electrics are experimental/novelty items. Perhaps there will come a day when there will be Tesla (as in Nicola) boxes that allow running an electric for a week without charge, as he did in the early 1900s. Find his magical solution, and maybe you have something. The new "glass" batteries perhaps?
Perfect choice for couples. My husband has the gasoline-powered car and I am getting and electric for about town. So we have a choice of cars for the trip we're taking -- we go in his for long journeys in his, and will zip around town in mine.
Thank you for a very enlightening and informative and refreshingly unbiased look at electric vehicles.
It is true that I can see the reason for the them to exist but as you say, the technology hasn't quite caught up yet.
If the promise of the new 10-minute charge batteries becomes reality, and when charging points are far more available they will be much better proposition.
I have a problem where I cannot park outside my house - in fact I can't even park on the same street sometimes - so home charging isn't really an option.
And finally, I'm concerned about the fact that the cost of ownership of an electric vehicle is currently being kept artificially cheaper by the government's incentives (shame they can't do something about the purchase price). What's going to happen when those incentives stop? And also, once the government has lost the revenue from petrol and diesel sales, where's that money coming from? You can bet your bottom dollar car tax will be introduced on electric vehicles, or some other form of tax to recover those losses.
And don't believe they won't do it.
Do you remember decades ago when we all shifted from petrol to diesel cars because diesel was cheaper and lasted longer because of better economy... diesel used to be cheaper than unleaded for obvious reasons: petrol is basically refined diesel, so it cost more to produce.
But as soon as the government realised it was losing revenue they hiked up the tax on diesel.... so it's not like they don't have a proven track record in these kinds of shenanigans.
£33k FFS
🤣😂
If you care for these batteries = If you never discharge them below 20% and never charge them above 80%
So basically these batteries will last a long time, as long as you stay within that 60% min-max windows, basically cutting your range to about 60% of what the manufacturer had claimed.
Warranty is all well and good, but they are not "8 year unlimited" warranties, often it is 8 years OR 100.000 miles whatever comes first, and the batteries are not deemed bad unless they drop below 70% of the capacity from new. Also there are usually limitations on how many times you can go below and above the 20-80 state of charge.
The question concerning range is important not because of the range itself but because of then having to charge it. Super simple to fill up at a petrol station (which is why petrol range is not an issue) … far from simple with electric.
I would like to see the cost and reliability of owning an elect. Car over 100.000 miles and comparable cost to the same size vehicle of a internal combustion car
Agreed. I’m told that the battery pack will last between 8 and 9 years over which time they hold less and less charge. So, the ranges quoted would be for a fully charged and quite new battery pack. I’m also told that the cost of replacing the battery pack is quite significant.
Once the price of ICE cars properly reflect the "externality" cost of the pollution it creates, versus the pollution caused by the generation of electricity used for charging an EV, then we'll be able to properly asses the lifetime cost of ICE vs EV.
@@RussCR-xw4co Except the cost of pollution does not come directly out of your pocket.
@@robertnicol1137 I can only talk for Tesla but they have an 8 year power train warranty that includes the batteries.
Many Tesla owners have done way over 150,000 miles with only ever changing tires and brakes. Tesla even states that their batteries will only drop 10% range at 150,000 miles.
Right now the current gen of Tesla cars have 300k-500k batteries which is longer then most traditional car lifespans. They are working on the next gen battery which supposedly will last up to a million miles. Other then that they don’t use oil, they use the electric motors to stop etc so you save a lot on oil changes and brake pads. As long as nothing breaks you literally only pay for the charge which is a few dollars for a full charge. Tesla also has 8 year warranties so any parts are taken care of for basically as long as most people keep a car anyway
I'm not buying anything I can jump start off my iphone.
You mentioned that ecotricity was convenient...to build that up cost a lot and the high price is part and parcel. Honestly competition will fix this but there's another boogie man on the horizon and that's EV road tax because we're no longer buying fuel. Then it will cost more to run EVs lol. Totally in agreement with the multiple plug types, we should have a single global standard.
There is no free charging anymore in the U.S. and charge stations typically charge 28 to 35 cents per KWH and when they add the road tax that will add another 8 to 12 cents. So, a 700 mile trip like yours would cost $55 or more !! If you are still getting free charging in the UK they are just setting the HOOK deeper; you are in for a big soaking - especially considering your electricity cost is a lot higher than ours.
your passenger was making me feel sad :(
Ha, I dont think she realised she was on camera
She thought you were talking to her then ? Wow.
@@Macmonkey1000 no, she was just along for the ride
@@JayEmmOnCars So, she knows talking to yourself is perfectly normal.
This whole boring pile of poo is making me suicidal!
The reason nobody cares about the range of a normal car is that it takes 2 minutes to refill. Even if you use tesla supercharge it takes longer and that reduces the life of your battery more for charging so quickly
taxi driver in Norway has done 400,000km in his Tesla, still at 90+ battery
I agree on the charging time. Even a 15 minute charge is unacceptable in most cases. And for each car in front of you in the queue, that's an extra 15 minute wait. Ramp that up to an hour if there's an older car with a slower recharge time and it becomes mind-bogglingly ridiculous. The government needs to get a widespread, regulated, cheap, compatible charging infrastructure in place first and then the electric vehicles will rapidly become popular. Until then, most of us have no choice but to wait.
I rarely need to charge away from home. When I do, I’ve virtually never had to charge more than 10 mins to give me sufficient charge for the rest of the journey - and I drive from Gloucester to Amsterdam last month.
There was a “race” done between a Porsche and a Tesla Model 3 in Norway. Refill time for the Porsche was the same as for the Model 3 - from road back to road. I’ve timed my refills in my diesel car - it took 12 mins road to road. You think it’s two minutes at the pump. Time it for a good tank refill. It’s rarely less than four minutes. Add onto that payment time (at least 2 minutes which is over 10% of your stoppage time) and then add the time to get from road to pump and back to road. It never happens in less than 10 minutes unless you put like 5 litres in.
And the reality is I rarely have to recharge anyway.
captain pugwash I accept that. However how many people drive 600 miles in a day. If I want to drive from Gloucester to say Manchester and back, as I did last weekend, even on a 150 mile range, you only need to charge once and you could charge from 10% to 30% on a rapid which would take 10 minutes and give you more than you need.
So unless you are truly doing very large distances in a single day and you don’t want to stop for a wee on the way, then my experience is that you don’t need to charge that long, just what’s fit for purpose. Remembering lots of folk in ICE vehicles don’t leave home with a full tank.
captain pugwash these kind of conversations are useful because it does spring me from my Tesla bubble. Nothing wrong with a good reality check from time to time.
I am curious though: a friend with a 2018 Leaf says he normally drives close to two hours between charges and rarely charges for more than 30 minutes. Admittedly not the figures I was quoting but different to yours too. Is yours a pre-2018 model?
Yes try one in the middle of winter, when it is below freezing. have the heater , wipers and lights on.Drive here in the hilly cotswolds, and just see how far you get on a charge.
I'm doing my next EV review in winter
sounds like the Esprit turbo I used to have. It wouldn't start really moving until the turbo spooled up. would you prefer to drive that car instead of an Esprit turbo?
The real problem with EVs today is (apart from the early 100 mile cars you mentioned) you have to buy new (and wait...). Your car costs £33k but you can have a 2019 Niro hybrid with 4k miles for £19k. The reasons for buying hybrid are precisely as you describe - to avoid the poor city economy of petrol and even diesel cars. What do uber drivers use - Prius !
Rhian Taylor hibrids are also banned along with petrol and diesel. Because they use fossil fuel. Not 100 % electric.. What a con!!!!
15:05 -- You think that the need to charge with expensive electricity a few times a year is the reason people will not switch to EVs? No: they will be amazed how easy, clean, and inexpensive it is.
Every time I press the gas pedal on my combustion car it makes me want an EV. Every oil change / brake change / clutch change makes me feel like I have been sold a product with intentional flaws built in. Like I was scammed. Ever since i started driving I have hated the delay between my action and the response of the car and I tend to drive manual, stick shift cars.
Indeed. I’ve never looked back.
Currently it is more expensive to buy and operate a petrol car, at least in the U.S. The total cost of owning and operating including fuel and paying for the electricity to charge it gasoline cars are cheaper, especially when looking at cost of battery replacement. It may make good sense for someone living urban with a short commute, for folks like me it makes no sense.
This is brilliantly balanced and informative. Thank you
Thanks for the video, very informative....
no one ever say how much are replacement batteries as anyone who runs electric leisure vehicles know the the batteries are very expensive and the power degenerates quickly. Also charge it in the supermarket car-park yeah good luck with that
Something to scare you
ruclips.net/video/L_zdtaJeYmw/видео.html
You aren't using Lithium batteries in your leisure vehicle. Almost all care companies are now saying that the batteries will outlast the cars, and some offer 10 year warranty on the battery. Things have moved on.
Nope. Teslas are getting 800 000kms and more.
@@Muppetkeeper With respect that is utter horseshit.
Here you go - EDUCATE YOURSELF !
ruclips.net/video/Gb_i4ihsJ1w/видео.html
Interesting comments, take your passenger for an exciting night out
Mike P he needs to give his passenger, a good rogering. Hahahahaha
Two things I never see an EV aficionados talk about are Insurance and road tax: EV's cost a lot (up to 2X) more to insure. Remember that invisible gas tax you pay (average about 65 to 70 cents per gallon in the U.S. - 10 cents more for diesel) well up to now there is no road tax on EV's - IT'S coming !
"Charging is my biggest current issue" Lol
Thanks, I missed that - so that's the big problem is it.
Lol. This guy never stop talking
@pmailkeey
TBH, I was completely shocked.
That's why a Tesla Model 3 is better than the Kia e niro, dueto the Tesla Supercharger Network. But if they update the charging speed of Kia E niro to 150 to 200kW and provide access to rapid charging network like Ionity, then surely Kia e niro will be a better choice at lower cost.
A rotten technology without a self charging engine. A car is supposed to
serve you, not you serving it. Let's wait 20 y until superchargers are
found everywhere. I don't fancy a car as my master!
Another downside it the popularity of EV cars is that emergency services have to be aware of the special handling that's needed for fires involving the battery pack. You go and start dumping water on these packs and you just end up causing problems
That's really a non issue
Gavin Earls Um, no it’s not. Especially if you’re an emergency services worker like a firefighter, EMT, police officer or tow truck driver. Fires aren’t the only thing to worry about either. The fumes those batts put out is extremely toxic as are the solid compounds in the batts.
@Overbuilt Limited Lithium Ion cells have no acid in them... editing...interesting that when I pointed out that you were wrong about the batteries containing acid, you changed your comment to “fumes being extremely toxic”. Actually, any car that is burning emits all sorts of nasty toxic fumes hal-ineris.archives-ouvertes.fr/ineris-01863930/document - so you will find that firefighters always tackle them in full gear. Although it’s early days, it seems that at present BEVs are about 11 times less likely to experience a fire from Tesla’s own stats - I’ll take that with a little pinch of salt as the BEV fleet is still relatively young, but the signs are positive.
This argument always makes me laugh. We have literally been driving around in boxes full of highly flammable liquid with an engine which works by controlled explosions but its battery fires we need to worry about?
Ross McMillan No, it’s not what we need worry about. It’s one of the things we should consider before blindly moving forward with electric cars. The point was that there are different handling requirements and the fires are fought differently than fires from a petrol fueled vehicle. But we shouldn’t be considering all the angles no. I suppose according to you we also shouldn’t consider things like disposal issues for the thousands of huge batteries being produced...Or where the electricity being used to power the things comes from...or any other other the myriad of issues that will need to be delt with. No, let’s all rush in support of the new whiz bang tech, because it’s so cool. Just because YOU don’t care about a specific angle of the issue doesn’t mean it’s not important.
It takes me 5 minutes to fill up my gas tank and I’m on my way. Very convenient.
It takes me 30 seconds to unplug my EV twice a week and I'm on my way. Even more convenient.
the best way I think for long range would be to be able to swap the battery pack at service stations.... kind of like cordless drills....all brand cars use a standard pack , Solar panels to help keep new packs fully charged
If you live in a house without a driveway, then your first problem is finding somewhere to park, never mind charge.
Thanks for telling it as it is.
The 4cyl remains King for years to come.
Give it about 5 years.
JayEmm calls it 'a rant and a rave', but this was a high quality presentation. JayEmm has the knack of encapsulating his impromptu thoughts in clear, well organised language so as to create a balanced narrative. A natural lecturer . . .
Thankyou kind sir!
My Focus ST (MK.2.5) Does about 197 miles on a full tank. So this is impressive. My ST does however sing a lovely song every time I press the throttle, and it makes me grin from ear to ear every day. This is a luxury that our grandkids probably won't experience. This is understandable, but still a shame in some ways.
33thousand , I'll have the Honda type r please .....
The problem with the type r as Chris Harris said is could you do it to yourself. Could you really turn up Infront of the people you love, looking like that...
My nearest charging point is 4 miles away at a supermarket. I buy a car so I don't need to walk and carry all my stuff.
A rotten technology without a self charging engine. A car is supposed to
serve you, not you serving it. Let's wait 20 y until superchargers are
found everywhere. I don't fancy a car as my master!
@@c000rr LOL Brainwashed fools. Sure do not buy one if you don't have charging easily available or drive more than 130 mile PER DAY frequently. But once you have a charger easily accessible like At Home or At Work. A 230 Mile Plus BEV is VERY easy to live with. Far quicker to charge (30 seconds to plug in and check) than having to Drive out of your way to a Petrol Station. You are the fool who has to waste time going to pay higher prices at a station. The BEV is cheaper and more convinient in the right enviroment. You are no master you are the sheep.
@@Neojhun If you're a pathetic uncurious person that stays at home mostly to watch other people's opinions spewing at you on tv, with a sad boring lifestyle without road trips in mind to Spain or Germany, then this technology is the perfect toy suited to those like yourself, that only do what they're told. Nuff said!
@@c000rr LOL that's ironic. Model 3 LR did the Cannon Ball Run 2800 Miles in 48hrs 10Mins. That's an absurd overkill 1400 miles in 24hours. I just need a car that can do Half That (700 miles per Day) it would cover my road trip needs. People like you are Pathetic when you get basic facts wrong and resort to false hyperhetical attacks. I'm pissed off angry at all the Disinformation which why I am very "triggered". People like you ruin societies by not suffer the consequences of spreading falsehoods.
@@Neojhun Who cares about your silly stats from movies! You're just a programmed idiot, told what to do, happy to buy a battery car believing that somehow you're helping the environment, while your carbon footprint is far bigger for having to mine the rare earth metals, but of course you're too fcuking dumb to understand that simple fact. Furthermore, you worship your autocratic govt. willing to depose foreign govts. once a 3rd world country is found to have abundant resources, re: Venezuela (oil, gold), Bolivia (lithium). Get on your knees to your Greta Thunberg goddess, you twat!
Great video as usual like the outside format, can you advise on how to look after ev's during the lockdown please
Make sure the 12v battery is topped up - the main battery should be fine if it has good charge in it
This video is full of it. I just bought one from the dealership with 180 miles remaining on its current charge. I drove home using 90 of said miles, only barely making it home with less than 20 miles remaining. No interruptions or incidents that would increase my time. I calculated that I’m only getting 75% of actual mileage from what is being advertised. As for charging stations here in Texas, nonexistent. I’m hoping I can return it later today.
@JayEmm on Cars I think your subscriber base is very interesting - there’s a lot of bile here. I think your piece was well balanced. Despite the many comments - batteries do not degrade like phone batteries, and the car is likely to die before the battery (so far I have 0% degradation on my EV over 2 years/20,000 miles, and that’s common). They are reliable and easy to live with for a certain type of use, but you have to have off-street parking at present for it to make sense - charging every night, overnight, makes EV ownership pretty much pain free as 99% of the journeys most people make never exceed the range of the typical EV provided you always leave with a 100% full car (which you will have if you plug in when you get home every day). As a second car, an EV is a really good (and yes, cheap, option) - but at present you still need an ICE car for the long journeys. That’s changing as the charging infrastructure is improving, but it’s not there yet. It would be good to see you review a BMW i3s - they are seriously fun with linear acceleration to around 80mph (hence feeling much quicker than the stats suggest) and low center of gravity and good handling.
Tell that to the thousands of Nissan Leaf japanese owners who had to the their degraded Lithium-Ion batteries paying almost 3.000 $ for a refurbished battery.
You can't see the future, just hope for the best.
@P. Informático I replied to another thread on this. Unfortunately Nissan is the only manufacturer not to have active thermal management in their battery pack and as such there have been a small number of people who have suffered with battery degradation (mostly in hot climate countries like Australia). Even so, what you are seeing in the real world is a 20%-25% loss of capacity over 100k miles. With active battery management this does not happen. The Tesla fleet of vehicles is the largest out there and the data is available - www.engadget.com/2018/04/16/tesla-battery-packs-live-longer - typically they are seeing 90% retained capacity after 185K miles and 80% after 500K miles.
@@p.informatico1320 this was a problem with the first Japanese built leafs in hot climates which was fixed very quickly.
People effected by it did not pay thousands to buy refurbished battery packs they were replaced under warranty (unless they didn't claim within the 5 years the original Leaf warranty lasted, it's now 8)
Since this Leaf (or any other manufacturer) battery failures a exceedingly rare.
Have embraced the idea already and I've booked a good test drive with the new honda e in March I'm genuinly excited, I couldn't give up a combustion engined car but a cheap electric commuter car is what I want, which means I can keep the weekend toy purely for fun!
Honda e isn't going to be a cheap commuter car. But an exciting car none the less
Nissan Leaf is cheaper. And bigger.
£27995 I know it's not cheap but it will be cheaper to run than my old Honda prelude, and I've opted for the honda because I'm a bit of a fan boy! 😂
@@Laner84 Well it's your money, and you obviously aren't lacking. I'm really excited about Ford EVs though. Looking at what you can get on the Ford Mach-E, starting at ~£30k, I reckon they'll be the first manufacturer to offer a sub £20k EV, which would really shake up the market.
Look out for people stepping out in front of your whispering chariot of death. (People instinctively *listen* for cars.)
While shopping for an electric car, the salesman somehow always fails to mention that there will be several very expensive battery replacements in my future.
The Hybrid vehicles (Like my Volt) are good for families with one car. Almost all of my days are full EV, but I can drive coast to coast if I need to on fuel.
Next car will be full EV, I have the charging setup at home for one, and there are more DC fast chargers popping up for long distance.
The big issue is that instead of having fueling points such as gas stations you rely on everyone having "charging stations". Does every employer want to invest in charging stations? What about those who do not own driveways/garages?
Then again it is also the sourcing of the materials required for the motors. The majority of rare earth metals are located in China. Does anyone want to be beholden to China?
Last time I checked charging points cost between £3'000 and £8'000 per space.
They are converting lamp posts to charging points, for every request for a lamp post charger they are fitting 3. In my town they are fitting chargers that rise up out of the kerb when you use the app. ruclips.net/video/Frkw6aurVUY/видео.html
LOL your Modern ICE vehicles needs lot of Rare Earth Metals also. Most Lithium Ion CELLs use ZERO Rare earth metals. It's in the Electronic Circuits and small amounts in Electric Motors. Before spreading exaggeration lookup the technical facts how raw materials are used.
Going to check the e Hiro out next year I do almost all my driving within a 50 mile radius of home so sounds pretty good
By a small petrol citycar, and save yourself an absolute fortune.
Most helpful review. Excellent - learned a lot!
This was one of the better analysis of electric vehicles that I have seen.
I live in Texas. I like the idea of an electric car. But it won't become a serious option until recharging on the road becomes as convenient as filling up at a petrol station. This means the manufacturers must have a common charging connection that will work at a universal recharding point, as is the case when filling up at a gasoline station. And energy suppliers, i.e. BP, Exxon, etc., or similar vendors, have a lot of recharging stations. It also means recharging points in apartment houses, hotels, motels, etc.
I suspect the Niro is sold out because it is a compliance car and they are not interested in meeting demand.
R 1500 cars for 2019 for the whole of Europe. Yeah. compliance car. Kia is not interested in selling these, at least in 2019, because that would reduce their CO2 budget.
Ecotricity are a rip off - these make great sense if you can charge at home.
If only the sun would shine at night when the car is at home charging...
I reckon not too many condos or apartments have power (especially 220V) to the stalls to charge from. The condo I live at has u/g heated parking and no electrical outlets at the stalls. Would be a major and costly retrofit.
@@peterfouche oh dear ... you must be joking ... you sound like the orange man
Wow. Here in the US, 3 years later, we're only paying about $0.18 per kWh for level 2 charging and about twice as much for fast DC charging. I hope charging has become similarly affordable in the UK, too.
Thanks Jay. I am on my second e Niro. Only issue for me is very slight jittery ride, lack of led lights, and phone app. It’s by far the best car on the road for the money. Also guilt free driving. The Kia e-Niro U.K. interest group on FB has 100s of very happy owners. Also the e Niro has an incredibly residual value. The depreciation is almost zero at the moment due to supply and demand.
Finally some logic and sense on the topic of EVs and hybrids
explain
Ditto below
the maths flawed, he just worked out based on the most expensive tariff out there, home charging , 12p per kwh, as opposed to 39p,
Very true. Moreover, overnight charging can be very much cheaper - in some cases as little as a penny per mile.
I point out in this very video that the issue with charging is the huge discrepancy in cost
JayEmm on Cars it’s hugely biased , I have never heard anyone paying 39 p per kWh, there are free charging points , as well as home charging. The more people buy these the more points will appear as demand increases ,
@@fradaja It won't stay free charging forever, it's mostly companies trying to pick up customers, that offer charging for free or super cheap prices, then it will skyrocket. And guess what in Europe the different governments are taking over the pricing because it's usually the government that's providing all this free or super cheap power, that isn't being paid for...
In the USA Tesla stopped free charging last year because the US or state governments were losing out on the power being used.
And the faster the charger is the more drain that is on the power grid is, and that's usually what causes costs to go up not just the overall use.
@@fradaja Go to any motorway services and look at the pricing of an Ecotricity point. They're not alone either. I saw one point which wanted to charge 45p per KWh
Great video! Very eye opening ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️
Hope you enjoyed your trip along the East Neuk of Fife in Scotland beautiful country shame your passenger was so glum.
First and second problem , that will make you never buy such a vehicle is !! How would you charge it during a blackout , and they cost more too build even contribute to damage to the environment need lots of resources. Lithium, copper and many other rare earth minerals.
Haven't had a power cut here (SW UK) in over 10 years. The battery is an issue though, cobalt either comes from children in the Congo or the ocean floor. Neither is a great solution. Hydrogen fuel cells seem a more viable long term solution.
@@ApothecaryTerry well so everyone will be getting more blackout in the next couple of years and as it gets hotter and use more electric, I don't think the power supply and current infrastructure in even the western nations will be able too cope . But I like the idea of hydrogen fuel cell because you can still have a internal combustion engine.
You do know petrol pumps don't work in blackouts either, right?
@@_i-kr6eg I'm really not worried about blackouts in the UK at least, but there are plenty of other reasons I'd rather not buy a battery powered EV!
@Josho 8833 get solar panels that rotate to follow the sun put it in a open field here in Australia we could do this
33k for car lol no thanks. I get 62mpg from my £600 diesel and £30 road tax. I do less than 4k a year. You can stick your electric cars.
Your argument applies to any fuel source. Used cars are, by definition, cheaper. Problem you have is that in order to have your cheap used car it had to be an “expensive” new car at some point. So just appreciate those that do like, and can afford, a brand new car.
I would agree with you mostly, for example charging is no issue for me. I would love to have EV, in town they are joy to drive. But I have issue that replacement of batteries in fiesta sized car 5 to 7 years down cost same as fiesta with mid option eco boost 1.0 liter, I don't think there is high chance you will need replace fiesta engine in 5-7 years unless you seriously abuse it (like weekend amateur races or putting 300k km or bad maintenance) , and we are talking ford here ofc. When electric cars would cost about 10% more than their petrol equivalent or batteries will not crap themselves in time that is normally half of a life span of car built after 2008, we can start talking. Ebay or any autoseller sites are full of relatively new EV that need battery replacement worth new petrol car same size no one will buy. At the moment with current battery life are ecological disaster. People love to forget that building battery pack for car creates lot more pollution (including heavy metals in air, water and ground) than 2 or 3 petrol engines. So their CO2 savings against Petrol/diesel are completely pointless. And also use rarer materials so more you build them more expensive those will, price will not go down with mass production as people like to think it will.
A really interesting video, thank you. Over the last 55 years we have had 17 cars starting with a 1934 Hillman Minx Coupe and currently a Toyota Prius. The highlight was a Triumph 2.5PI which did 17mpg and went like a rocked when kept in tune. Currently we have a Toyota Prius. We are seriously considering an EV because we have PV panels and Christine, the driver, is quite hard of hearing. Range is important to us because we do some longer journeys. We have had a demo of a Kona which was a nice car but it made noticeably more noise than the Prius so we are currently awaiting the arrival of the VW ID3 which looks as though it will suit us well.
@ferkemall A chap in the digs had one when I was at college in Cheltenham. It went like a rocket in a straight line but wasn't very good at corners.
ev cars...let's you catch up on reading while charging
Or your sleep.
Nope. I am never waiting for my car to charge, I am doing something else, mostly sleeping as I charge it up to 80% once a week at home overnight. That covers my average weekly driving. On long journeys it has enough range to get to the end of my mind and body range which is 3 to 4 hours in the seat, max. I stop for 40 mins and can put another 200 km on at a rapid charger while I eat, drink and catch up with my emails. An EV is just so much more civilised than these noisy, smelly engines with all that complexity..pistons, valves, crankshafts, gearboxes...urghh. Thankfully they are on their way out, we have reached ‘peak ICE’ and the only growth in car sales now are in EVs.
@@kiae-nirodiaries1279 I believe you are right. For sure I don't miss going to the filling station any more. And 200+ miles in a car is plenty, I'd like a break by that point anyway.
have a long lunch
I watch the TV and sleep whilst my EV charges overnight. Although, today it has been charging from the sunshine and my solar panels. Last night I plugged it in and set it to charge only when there is spare solar generated electricity. It's still plugged in now but stopped charging when the sun went in. My phone says that it has just over 200 miles range right now. Free electricity being offset by the fact that I paid an extra £10k for the car.
I have been saying It for years that there needs to be Road Fairies that take You and Your vehicle from town to town You can charge Your vehicle while traveling on Road Fairies. also there needs to be battery exchange stations a universal standard for changeable batteries where You can exchange the battery Instantly for a fulling recharged one.
no. Cars come in different shapes and sizes, so battery packs could never be the same size and capacity. 200 mile range is enough, 0 to 80 percent in 30 mins is doable and the tech is getting better.
A great video, I really enjoyed the watching. I've just got one bijoux issue to take up with you regarding the Cost of refuelling these things vs today's Rapid Charger networks (as distinct from any of the Destination Chargers that are mostly free, at least outside of London). I have ICE and EV in the family home.
Going by my own circumstances; British Gas is the cheapest supplier in my postcode (for me and my domestic use case). Based on my domestic tariff and the EV car's own efficiency in use of the kWh charge - EV = 3p/mile. Rapid Charger networks skew that of course because their own cost per kWh is higher. And so; InstaVolt = 10p/mile, Polar Plus = 2.8p/mile vs my Hyundai i20 diesel using my local Shell Diesel = 13p/mile. Other Rapid Charge networks costs are similar ...
So it does vary a bit depending on where/what you charge up by. And if we get a Free Vend then its 0p/mile. Bargain.
Great realistic review. The point about having a completely different mindset is so so true.
The main problem for me is charging which you touched on. You constantly hear that there’s “loads” of charging points but the problem being that when you get there, there is only 2 or 3 “pumps”, which are usually in use, and are in use for around an hour. As EV’s become more popular this problem is going to get worse. In the city of York you can park for free with an EV so people literally park at the charging station all day.
Which brings me to the point you make about the Kia being a great run of the mill everyday car. If it’s required for the sake of a means of transport then one way to completely remove ownership anxiety, is to remove ownership. Again, completely different mindset required, but think of them like Boris bikes.
Obviously either you’ve got to get to the car, or the car has got to get to you but clever companies will get round this.