When speaking about dangers, there is that one small aspect about the Qunari not accepting the very existence of other societies and seeking to conquer and incorporate them forcibly.
The lands under the White Divine feel the same way about those under the Black, and vice versa. Both of them defecate on the Elves and only grudgingly accept the Dwarves because they monopolize a vital natural resource. Invasions, dynastic wars, civil wars, Divine Marches, mass sacrifices of slaves, Secret Police Without Portfolio (the Seekers) and gawdsawful dangerous fanatical orders who happily summon up demons and do blood magic because it seemed like a good idea at the time (Grey Wardens) don't exactly seem peaceful. None of them is capable of tolerating the Qun on any level, so both halve balance out on that last score. The danger the Qun presents isn't that it's a seductive banner for the downtrodden. It's that it bases society on a ethical philosophy and rewarding hard work and accomplishment rather than the ever-changing commands of an absent god or kissing the bum of someone who was born with a fancy title. That must terrify the nobility, any nobility. I'm not saying the Qun is perfect or even good, but it doesn't look half bad when you step back and look at the alternatives Bioware has presented.
The danger of the Qun is the stripping of individuality. You become a “Steppenwolf” a person of one and people are meant to be many things. Father, Mother, Brother, friend, wife, husband, son, daughter, etc.
@Melody Ackerman true i wont play skyrim with out a mod that lets me keep him alive hell half the time i turn off the bitch that demands i kill hims immortalty and shout her off of my fortress as i am the dragonborn they are sworn to serve me not me follow what they want that was one thing they really stuffed up in skyrim they broke their own lore on the dragonborns plus by that one fact alone you should be given the throne over all others as im pretty sure you could light the dragonfires and wear the amulet of kings i mean we already know of 2 family lines that could
The deaths of the mercenaries were necessary, as was the death of Iron Bull, as he was obligated to follow the Vidasala. They died with honor and purpose, which is more than most get.
Yeah, because random side NPCs that appear in a few cutscenes are definitely more optimal than an alliance with the Qun. For a shallow sentimentalist perspective I can see the point since Iron Bull doesn't betray you but from a practical point of view it's a pretty no brainer to choose the Qun.
Sten kinda quoted it perfectly when he spoke of the Llomerryn Accord in 7:84 storm during a conversation between him and soon to be king Alistair. Alistair: So I suppose once I'm actually king I could end up in negotiations with the Qunari one day. Sten: My people do not negotiate. Alistair: What do you mean? They negotiated a peace treaty after the war, and as far as I know they've kept to its terms. Sten: They signed a piece of paper. But only because they knew that you believed in it. Alistair: And what is the difference between that and negotiating? Sten: They stopped fighting for their own reasons. And they will resume it again, one day. The agreement means nothing to them. Alistair: But I thought you said your people believed in honor. Sten: They do. The honor of the Qunari is what will bring our warships back to your shores
Nick White Really? It’s actually why I like it,they don’t dance around everything like normal politicians or members of a normal society,they don’t sugercoat anything for the benefit of anyone,even their friends,or Kadan. “We will come back,we will make you bend,or we will break you”
+James.T .Adams Except they're a warring society bent on converting the world to slavery. Sure, I like the no bullshit attitude, but they're still a menace.
Michael Henry I mean,it’s not really slavery,it’s just very,very strict in its methods. The Qunari don’t do what they do out of malice,often times they believe it’s actually necessary and often times they’re right about it. No families:no risk of child abuse or inter-family drama No commerce:everyone has what they need,when they need it,regardless of class. No free mages:no risk of demonic influence on the innocent population. The Qun makes plenty of sense if you know enough about it,it’s not as malevolent as everyone makes it out to be.Take Sten for instance;he truly enjoys what he does...as much as sten can enjoy anything while still remaining hard hearted and completely stoic,but he does enjoy it.
+James.T .Adams A quote from dictionary.com, "the state or condition of being a slave; a civil relationship whereby one person has absolute power over another and controls his life, liberty, and fortune". The Qun eliminates risks. It takes away families to prevent familial struggles, takes away commerce to provide for everyone, and forces specific jobs on people so the entire society benefits. The problem is that taking away these risks also takes away freedom. The definition above literally states slavery is the act of controlling one's life, liberty, and fortune. The Qun controls your life, forcing you into jobs that suit you, controls your fortune by eliminating commerce, and prevents you from leaving if you want out, thereby taking away your liberty. The Qun is a societal form of slavery. Those born into the Qun are indoctrinated from a young age, so by the time they're adults, the idea of anything other than the Qun is foreign to them. They are born into slavery, raised in slavery, and accepting of slavery. If the Qun wasn't slavery, reeducation would not be a thing. Even after all of this, the Qun would still be alright with me if it didn't do one thing: actively conquer everything. The Qun not only makes slaves of it's citizens, it wants EVERYONE to be a slave. You can't look me in the eye and tell me with a straight face that a peasant, after his kingdom is conquered by the Qunari, being integrated into the Qun against his will isn't slavery. Being FORCED into the Qun is most definitely slavery, and that's what the Qunari intend to do.
I think Iron Bull said it best. The Qun is great...for some people. For others, not so much. If it has a general global 'failing,' it's that it's aggressive...it seeks to forcibly convert even those who would never accept it, will fight it, and therefore have no future within it even if they are conquered. I guess I sort of get why though. The philosophy doesn't say 'this is how the universe is ordered, except for the parts that don't agree with us.' Even so...it's a recipe for a long and bloody history. Not sure that's what Koslun had in mind.
The Qun is the embodiment of templar's ideal that order is the most important thing. I really wish there will be dragon age where we begun our journey in the Qun because the qunari and their culture is one of my favorites in dragon age. and btw i always find it interesting that people really easilly said the qun is too much in controlling your every move or wish but many of them seems doesn't see that as a problem when it comes to religion doing exactly that.
The Qunari want everyone and everything to act as one functional being hence, the Arishok (the body) the Ariqun (the soul) and the Arigena (the mind) but the Qunari will never TRULY spread the Qun to everyone and for example I believe Solas summed it up best in this moment. Solas: “I saw a young Qunari working in a simple kitchen, baking bread as she was ordered every morning. In every loaf she broke the rules. She’d take a pinch of sugar and fold it into the center, like a secret, and this act of small rebellion brought a shining smile to her face." This along with other small moments in Inquisition indicate that while certain Qunari may be comfortably content in their “roles” whether they are conscious of it or not they will always have that small part of them that wants more in life. At least that’s a part of my point of view of the Qun.
Those people are the kind that would require re-education, but they've been clever enough to have escaped notice. I don't think there any cases of some one individual or group consistently rebelling after being re-educated.
“An ashkaari walked among the fields once, observing the laborers at work. Flax bloomed all around him, the color of still water. The air rippled like a curtain. As he stopped to examine a blossom, a bee stung him on the hand. The ashkaari turned to a laborer for aid, and noticed for the first time the heavy gloves and coat she wore. As she tended to him, the ashkaari asked them why she was dressed so in such stifling heat. "To avoid your fate." She replied. “But there are many thousands of bees here," the ashkaari said to her, "and only one stung me. Surely your caution is unwarranted?" “The stinger is always a surprise," agreed the laborer. “But so is the bee that simply passes one by." “
Btw, YOU need to get into voice acting. I would love hearing your voice in a future DA character, its quite engaging and you can hear the different emotions you portray while story telling.
I really like what the Qun brings to DA from a storyline standpoint. It's really interesting to have a neutral religious faction like this that can be friend to one protagonist and enemy to another.
Michael Henry true, even when Sten takes you as Kadan, he says he only "hopes to not find you on the battlefield" when he literally says they're attacking them anyway after saving the damn whole world... Again.
That gives me the idea of playing an Inquisitor who don't necessarily know the Qun but would agree with it if they did and who acts as if they followed it. It would be the first time I sacrifice the Chargers.
According to codex entry for Saarebas in DA2 it's not so much that magic can never be mastered, it's more that the mage could lose their self to a demon at any moment, and with the loss of self, suffering follows. This is why they can never master themselves and must be controlled by another.
Agreed, Yosht. The belief is that the Qun is not cruel to their mages. "The Qunari pity, but honor the Saarebas at the same time, for the Saarebas striving while under constant threat from within is truly selfless, the highest virtue of the Qun.[1]" dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Saarebas dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Codex_entry:_The_Qunari_-_Saarebas I say they are cruel to their mages. ;)
the Qun remind me of the Borg in Star Trek. Like the Borg, the Qun does not compromise. the Qun does not negotiate. the Qun does not allow dissent or thinking anything other than the thoughts you are allowed to think. Solas even explicitly calls Iron Bull a DRONE (which is the term used to refer to individual Borg units) in banter should the Chargers be sacrificed. If you talk to Gatt at the start of Bull's loyalty mission, he tells you that even he has doubts, but he stays because otherwise the parts of the Qun he doesn't like won't change. Only he's deluding himself, because the Qun will never bow to the individual. it is the individual that must bow to the Qun. the really scary part of the Qun, is that bit about how struggling against them is meaningless. i think it goes, "Struggle is an illusion. There is nothing to struggle against." or as the Borg would say "Resistance is futile." the only difference between them is the lack of mechanical parts. even the hive mind is in full effect.
Qunari are descendant of elfs who were infused with dragon blood as soldiers for the ancient elven gods, they can be reavers without drinking dragon blood have pointy ears and have horns. They fled to the east and now they are back. Dragons are powerful and savage beings. This made the qunari (then called kossith) powerful and savage. Koslun knew this and implemented a philosophy/guideline to keep his kinsmen from destroying themselves and become something more. And so the Qun was born. Now everyone has a role and everyone adheres to a strict hierarchy and are controlled through discipline and self control. (This is just my theory but I think it makes sense)
I agree, and it explains the 'Freed are the Slaves' mossaic too, the Tevinter Imperium beleived they freed the Kossith, just like they believed they defeated the Elves.
I had a thought the other day, about how Grey Wardens might survive their Joining Rituals, and why Tal-Vashoth so far haven't survived. Or at least haven't been known to survive. I couldn't find any other topics about it, and I didn't really know where else to put it except here, so I've decided to share. I'm thinking it actually has to do with the type of darkspawn blood gathered. Since the Grey Wardens gather it randomly from the corpses of the darkspawn they kill, it's possible that elves need shriek blood, humans need hurlock, dwarves need genlock, and Qunari need ogre blood. Since ogres are the rarest darkspawn, and if my theory is correct, it's no surprise that there hasn't been any known Tal-Vashoth or Qunari Grey Wardens. From what I've seen, elves aren't too common amongst the ranks either, with dwarves and humans making up the vast majority, which is fitting since shrieks aren't exactly numerous either. Of course, there is one big thing against this little theory of mine, and that's Dragon Origins beginning. There are no shrieks fought in the Korcari Wilds (at least, none I recall fighting), and so your Warden can't gather any. If your Warden happens to be an elf, that makes it impossible for him/her to survive under the assumption of my theory. Or perhaps the blood used was blood gathered previously, and it was being prepared while you were out in the wilds (which honestly would make a lot of sense, as Duncan does say that the Circle mages have been preparing while you were away, if I recall correctly), and it just so happened that the blood used in Daveth's ritual was not hurlock blood, but the blood used in your Warden's ritual just happened to be the correct blood to let your Warden survive. The blood your Warden gathers with Jory and Daveth being the blood that will be used in the next Joining Ritual could be why Duncan bothered to make you retrieve the blood at all, just to make sure they had some extra on hand, just in case. I admit, it isn't foolproof, but I think it's at least something to consider as a possibility.
@@RashidMBey To start with, here's a reminder of some basic facts about darkspawn types, just in case it's slipped your mind; Shrieks are made from elves, genlocks from dwarves, hurlocks from humans, and ogres from qunaris. That much is known to be fact. So, if that theory of mine actually holds up as true, the idea is that elves need what is essentially elven darkspawn blood (from shrieks) for their joining, while humans need human darkspawn blood (from hurlocks), and so on and so forth. Obviously we also all know that they need some Archdemon blood too, but until they say otherwise, we do still operate under the belief that we need more than just archdemon blood. Obviously it's just a theory though, but it does neatly explain how one survives the ritual, without making things too convuluted, or giving us some useless answer that doesn't actually answer the question.
It is more likely Tal-Vashoth simply do not ever seek out the Grey Wardens. Although, I am certain that if the Qunari controlled Thedas, they would definitely make Grey Wardens, and give them some special name under the Qun.
All we know so far is that whatever the Darkspawn origins are, the Chantry is wrong. How wrong, we don't know. It is also possible that the Dwarven lore may hold the answers. Although, it would be intriguing if the Dwarves themselves helped destroy their own empire inadvertently.
Doubt this is why, as it opens up a lot of plot holes, or simply brushes aside previous things working as "convenience". It's more likely due to the DA:I hints (Kieran's speech if he has the soul of an old god) about "Qunari's blood not being their own" and other small remarks that seem to state Qunari are a transformed people, mutated from some other species' blood. Leading theory is Qunari are humans/humanoids warped by Dragon Blood, ala the old Pentaghasts, and that their blood is already too corrupted to survive being Blighted (hence why we get reports of Tal Vashoth taking the joining in Inquisition but its suspiciously that no Qunari Wardens were seen even after that, as you've alluded to). Also explains why Qunari have a weird relationship with Dragons, and why the Iron Bull reacts incredibly aroused and saying you smell *great* if you specialize as a Reaver and start drinking dragon blood. IRC, he even remarks you smell like Qunari.
I've been playing through the Dragon Age games again (I can't go a long time in between playing them lol) and your videos help enrich the lore of the games for me. I love your videos!
Unfortunate thing about free will is the fact that in order for it to exist... individuals must be free to make the "wrong" choice. We learn more from mistakes than anything else. Failure is a cornerstone of progress. The Qun seems more cowardly than anything else to me. A society protecting itself from bad choices by allowing no choices at all. Replacing the ills of most free societies with an existential sort of... stagnation. To what capacity do locusts have to enjoy their own existence? Obviously I'm with Solus with regard to the Qun. I can respect their efficiency, but what is lost is more valuable than what is gained to me.
I personally think they drew a lot of inspiration, for the Qun, from Plato's Republic. Though definitely with a mix of Buddhist and Confucianist concepts. Denial of the self, importance of societal structure, etc.
It has almost nothing in common with the works of Kong fu it does have elements in common but those are that it has in common with every philosophy of the ancient world.
I'll admit I do like the simplicity to the Qun the idea of focusing and mastering a task that I'm best suited for does sound decent, but as always with any system there's that pitfall of horrendous methods to keep one in line and lacking in individuality. It is however no wonder why someone like Fenris is able to understand it's mentality and many poorly treated elves like Gatt turn towards it.
Food for thought.. The Kossith where sported in the Kocari wilds in -410 ancient, the Imperial Highway was built between -692 to -597 ancient. In Emprise du Lion, we can see carvings of a Femme Kossith built into the old Tevinter highway. This would imply that the Kossith where around before -410 ancient.
I thought the carved female on the highway in Emprise du lion was a Desire Demon or something of the sort with how she is dressed and how the horns appear.
Running across a lot of people calling it communist in the comments. No, the Qun is not communist, just ask any Communist philosopher, and they will indeed tell you. I am personally tired of folks taking every single Utopian dictatorship and automatically claiming it to communism. If the Qun were communist, it would be talking about the problems of a higharcy and how the working-class should seize the means of production. It makes it very clear that it is hierarchical in its nature to function and takes about nothing when it comes to Working-Class revolution. In fact, I think if you had a Qunari talk with Karl Marx, the two would hate one another. The Qunari would hate Marx for trying to resist the fundamental nature of the universe and Marx hating the Qunari for not giving equal power to everyone.
Yes yes because communist states are the workers utopia where they flourish and don't become enslaved by the ruling class that has been every communist County in history. The qun is communism in reality.
@@cdb5961 No even in "reality." the Qun and Communisim is diffrent. In the USSR you could actually leave your job as a miner to become a teacher if you so wish to, in the Qun your stuck with the role your assassigned. Further there is no talk about "withering the end of the state and class divides." even in some propaganda sense to the Qun there is a class Higharchy that is naterual to the world. If we are going to play the "this fictional group is like this real life group." the Qun is more close to what Jorden Peterson professess (or does he not argue for some form of higharchy and worry about Incels not able to make children.)
Look I know it’s because DA2 players were trying to smash, but between this and her betraying Hawke for a BOAT, its real hard to honestly and realistically rationalize letting Isabella live
Due to growing up with a drug addicted mother and an absent father, I had a very unstable life. I crave stability in my life and now I'm very against change out of fear and paranoia. I feel like I'd thrive under the Qun because of the stability it offers.
I feel this but right now its the constant threat of financial instability and ruin for me... trying to make ends meet burning myself out trying to have enough for me and my fiancé whose working just as hard but never able to thrive... Id love stability and knowing what’s coming next and that I have a place to thrive based on my skill set
Provided you can give up everything that makes you you. Personality is not allowed under the Qun, so if you like telling jokes you will be 're-educated',for example. And if you ever fall in love you will be taken by the Ben Hassrath and tortured and have your mind poisoned until you are a mindless drone. Sound good to you?
@@SevCaswell Well if I grew up under the Qun chances are I wouldn’t know what I’d be missing out on unless I got a job like Bull that exposed me to the outside world. But let’s look at elves. Lots of them join the Qun because of how the outside world treats them and they find comfort in being a part of it. I could have a good life outside the Qun, yes, but all I’m saying is that I’d be fine living under it.
@@SevCaswell What's your source that jokes aren't allowed? That seems patently untrue. Poetry and metaphor seem to be a large part of the Qun. Personality? The Qun doesn't strip you of personality, you have that. They give you strong purpose and abolish your reliance on familial relationships for stability and kinship. Iron Bull and the Qunari we meet have blatant personalities and shared histories on which they reflect fondly. They don't "re-educate" you for jokes, dude. The Qun simply states that the purposes of relationships can be fulfilled with people who solely embody that specific task. You want sexual relations? People specialize in that. You want good bread? People have devoted their entire life to mastering the art of bread. Of horticulture. Etc.
@@RashidMBey you really don't understand the nature of comedy and humour. Comedy is intrinsically subversive, it pokes fun at superiors, points out mistakes, makes unflattering comparisons. Have you ever heard a funny joke that did not do any of those things? Also you talk of people 'dedicating their lives' to their roles. Those roles are forced on them, and if that role is not suited to them they must report themselves to the ben hasrath as defective and either be tortured until they fit their assigned role or be assigned a different role, which perhaps they will be even less suited to, without knowing at all which of those options will be chosen for them, or simply stick it out in misery. It is quite literally stated that a qunari ONLY HAS A SOUL IF THYE HAVE A JOB and that soul only exists within the tools of that job.
Notice none of the race of horn people have horns in Dragon Age Origins and Dragon Age Awakening? If you make a hornless inquisitor, people may call you a horned creature and a note says you have horns. Spoilers ahead If Iron Bull’s group dies, he stays loyal to the Qun until he betrays you 🤣. I saw that crumpled note, they were going against the wishes of the Arishok which kind of makes them Tal-Vashoth.
@@SevCaswell part graphical limitation (the official stance) part none of the races being that distinguishable in DA:O. The elves all looked indistinguishable from humans in DA:O. Its funny, this made them overcompensate for racial distinguishers in DA2 and all the races were dialed back in DA:I. Elves went from slightly shorter humans with pointy ears to fucking walking skeletons whose bone structure was a thing of nightmares, to slimmer humans with functional skeletons in DA:I Qunari went from tall humans with metalic skin in Origins, to multi-horned, gigantic demon men in DA2, to very tall and generally muscular ox-men in DA:I Dwarves pretty much didn't change during the games though
The Qun is quite honestly the most unique creation I've ever encounter in any fantasy ever. As a greek, the whole thing being based of Plato's 'The Republic' makes it feel really eerie to my senses. I think the most awkward thing about it is that -baring the fantastical elements- it feels like a legitimately solid governing system.
I've been enjoying these videos. A lot of DA content is approximately related to cultures a la real world (Orlais being France, Tevinter close Russian, Fereldan closer to English). I find the "Qun" to be a part of a trend in fantasy that articulates "otherness" in a way that is undigestable for the perspective of the player/narrative. In this respect, the Qun play the same "role" as Haradrim in LotR and Qarth in ASoIaF. For this trope to work, it seems the lack of information speaks to a cultural disconnect in legal/social expectations. In IRL, the Qun seem to have a lot of comparisons with Islamic Law/Contemporary Chinese governing structures (just IMO at face value). I also think it speaks to a level of salience regarding not representing the other as potentially a racial conflict. Keep the videos coming, they're terrific!
I was watching this in a separate tab without seeing the title of the video and after an initial confusion at the intro, I nearly DIED when you said "PERHAPS YOU SHOULD JOIN THE QUN" LMFAO.
You know, when the Qun was first introduced by Sten in Origins it honestly seemed like an interesting approach to live your own life. I may have not agreed with him every single time (especially when it came to magic) but I respected his opinion because he was willing to cooperate. After playing the other parts of the series I still think it's interesting but the whole anti individuality thing, forcibly converting unwilling people and the use of "Quamek" kinda leave a very bad taste in my mouth.
I did not know the Arishok was such a big deal when playing Dragon Age 2. I will have to revisit that game now because Hawke is probably a person of great interest to the Qunari.
It's like stealing their equivalent of the Bible, only in this version Jesus himself wrote both the old and new testament and also he's not the son of God but a very pragmatic, and bleak, philosopher. So actually closer to stealing the collected works of Confucius, I guess?
Krem would be considered a warrior because he is a male, even under the qun. They have a name for it I can't remember. Sten is confused by the Warden because she still presents as a woman, even as a warrior. Not because she is a person with a vagina who is also a warrior.
Yes but it has been taken to be a slight case of retconning after Gaider had gone back to the table to add details on the Qunari. It seems that originally he planned for a more sexist race but instead changed it to a sort of inflexible race where sex doesn't HAS to determine your job,but instead if you end up being a good warrior then they say you are a male and that's that. It suits their inflexible nature in a way and Sten does kind of implies a similar idea even back in Origins since I do remember he did say something akin to "then you are a male" during one of those weird backand forth where the Warden kept insisting she was a female warrior.
I think one should avoid the word "religion" with the Qun - it doesn't have any supernatural aspects as far as we know. It's a societal philosophy Cassandra calls it a relgion when talking to Varric in DA2, but her viewpoint is from a world where such fanaticism is suually only seen in the followers of relgion in Thedas. Koslun is revered and honored, but the Qunari don't view him as supernatural from what we've seen. I think the DA Wiki nails it in the first sentence: "Ashkaari Koslun is a kossith philosopher and the founder of the Qun − one of the major schools of thought in Thedas."
@@SevCaswell That's hyperbolic, if you don't mean it poetically. Mages are venerated as selfless and sacrificial dangers but are treated as though they could undergo demonic possession and wipe at a village at any moment.
@@RashidMBey It has been stated by the devs that qunari mages are intrinsically stronger than human or elvhen mages, due to their having some form of dragon blood. Also the qunlat word for mage literally means 'dangerous thing', and the use of 'bas' or 'thing' is a perjorative, used to describe all life other than qunari, such as humans. Also, in the lore, the Qun was apparently developed to control the inherantly besital nature of the qunari, that it is believed a qunari without the qun can also go beserk and murder innocents even if they are not a demon possessed mage. This is often cited as the reason that Sten in DA:O murdered the family that tried to save him.
Magic IS dangerous however. Even before the veil, the elves were inslaved to the strongest mages of their society. Magic in the hands of the greedy and unworthy is a danger to everyone. However, even in the real world, integrity and honor are rare.
That! Personally, I don't think that the Qun is in any way better or worse than the rest of the religions/cultures of Thedas as they all treat dessidents with similar scorn and violence.
"Saying, "tell me about the Qun" is like saying "tell me about economics" its just too broad of a topic for casual discussion (Iron Bull. DA Inquisition)."
I had always thought the race itself was called Vashoth which just means Grey. Tal-Vashoth means true Grey , like in giving up the Qun the give into their true barbaric nature and that the Qun was their only form of order. I can't remember where i heard that, I'm pretty sure it was tumblr. so take it with a grain of salt. it says in the Wiki that those that just go by Vashoth are the children or grandchildren of Tal-Vashoth born out side of the Qun. there is that Codex entry; Vashoth: The Grey Ones where Genitivi asked a Vashoth about the Qun. which is kind of entertaining. i find the race itself fascinating but I can't say I care for the Qun teachings. especially with how The Iron Bull talks about it. and what it would do to the Inquisitors inner circle if the Qunari took over. I've never sacrificed the Chargers, I know Bull betrays you for the Qun if they die. but I believe he was never happy in the Qun. its almost like slavery. you're never happy but content as long as you fulfill his role and as most Qunari don't know anything else they don't question they are taught not to question. I Don't know I'm rambling as I listen to your video.
They are! One day I'll go into this deeper, but Qunari, Vashoth, and Kossith are all used for the race, with varying degrees of correctness. The problem with picking anything other than Qunari, is that it confuses casual and new fans. While I could use the correct term all the time, a lot of people rolling in are going to be confused what the Vashoth are, while also asking for more videos on Qunari, not knowing the two are the same. So- I usually end up using Qunari, because it's just easier on everyone.
Thats understandable. and also probably the same reason why its rarely mentioned in game too lol. I don't think Bull or Sten would think there is a point in educating southern Thedas about it all, especially with the likes of Genitivi spreading assumptions about them- and people just not liking Qunari. *shrug* I look forward to your Videos. and can't wait till a follow up on this.
The Qun is harsher version of the Menbari from Babylon 5. Both separate their societies into 3 castes; warrior, spiritual, and craftsman. The spiritual cast controls the spies. Order and honor are upheld at the individual level, and the greater good is up most goal of of the society. Foreigners are not generally allowed in their home region/planet.
I’d love the Qun to be explored more in future dragon age games as dlc or maybe a plot devise in the vanilla experience. Though I do think Iron Bull , his story’s and his personal quests as well as the trespasser dlc was a step in the right direction. I find there totalitarian view on the perfect society fascinating as well as scary and draws some interesting parallels to real life history.
Michael Henry Yeah I suppose we are going toTevinter making it inevitable that there will be a storyline (if not the main quest ) that will involve the Qunari.
+Sam Atkinson Yep, and the trespasser dlc certainly set them up to be a main faction in the game. They resumed their hostilities with Tevinter and are invading. Since we'll be in Tevinter the next game, I'd say they'll most definitely play a role. No doubts at all.
Poetically enough, this reminds me a lot of Parson from 1984. As devout as he is to The Party, a part of him whispers in his sleep, "Down with Big Brother."
"Qunari" means "people of the Qun" I believe. The people who came up with the concept were called Kossith, but it is unclear whether it was the name of the species of horned giants, or just a faction/tribe of them.
sweet, thanks for all the quality content! I also agree, it's not just a religion. It reminds me most of totalitarian ideologies, like they had in the Soviet Union or in North Korea today, just more fantasy.
I notice an awful lot of folks down-thread saying "Communism!" Not quite. It's not a system based on an industrial society where workers own the means of production. Then what is it? There's a big hint in how all the quotes from The Big Book O' Qunnity are written, in poetry. It's a moral philosophy based on mutual obligation, ethics, defined courtesies and social roles, orderly disposition of society, and living together humanely within the Qun. It's all based on sincere dedication to acting correctly on all levels. This should start sounding familiar... "Only when things are investigated is knowledge extended; only when knowledge is extended are thoughts sincere; only when thoughts are sincere are minds rectified; only when minds are rectified are the characters of persons cultivated; only when character is cultivated are our families regulated; only when families are regulated are states well governed; only when states are well governed is there peace in the world" Yeah, it's awfully close to Confucian give or take some methods, a three party check-and-balance, and some handwaving over filial piety. Another giveaway is the priesthood and the lack of god-based religion. Under a Confucian ordering of society there is a sort of diffuse "religion" where a priesthood answers philosophical and ethical questions and ritualized actions suffuse daily life. The rituals aren't to appease the gods but instill wisdom and humane relations. Government officials order the laws and policies according to moral philosophy. The Arigen and the groups she represents are a bit different, but close enough for a fantasy setting with dragon-blooded horned giants. I'm not saying it's one-for-one, but it's a much better match than Marxist anything which isn't big on ritual, mutual obligation, or courtesies taken to the point of religion. And it still explains why so many Westerners including our own Ghil Dirthalen react with visceral distaste and words like "dangerous". This is an alien way of thinking to most of us. In our world it still remains to be seen whether it's better than the radical individualism currently in vogue. But consider the alternatives. In Orlais or Nevarre it's all down to who your ancestors were. Individual merit counts for very little. In Ferelden governance and social order are all about which thug was able to kill enough people to grab the throne. Tevinter is a hereditary aristocracy run by Blood Mages. The Dwarves have an utterly hidebound caste system. The Elves are a scattered, shattered remnant. Compared to this does a society based on giving everyone useful work that they're likely to be good at, guaranteeing a decent standard of living, rewarding merit and hard work, and keeping supreme power out of single pair of hands really seem so bad?
I've never liked how Sten describes magic as "...a sword without a hilt." considering he butchered an entire family of humans who saved his live for no other reason than because he lost his own sword. He acts like mages could just kill at any moment completely ignoring that he did the exact same thing.
I've always thought that Thedas heavely ressembles Europe during the late middle ages/early renassaince period (Ferelden is Britain, Orlais is France, Tevinter is the Byzantine Empire and so on) so I've always saw the qunari to be the Ottomans in this world. A society created to be in conflict with everything "western". They want to spread their filosophy through any means necessary, are infamous for their holy wars, they use gunpowder and the elves (who can be seen as jews or maybe romani) are the most likely to convert, as the jews were likely to thrive under muslim rule. What do you think? Am I onto something or just seeing things?
Yeah, the Qunari absolutely do seem to resemble the Ottomans in terms of their relationship to the other major powers... but their society doesn't really resemble that of the Ottomans at all. The Qun in particular is nothing like Islam. It more closely resembles Confucius or maybe Plato's philosophy of the "ideal" society (everyone in their naturally-assigned place, working together for the betterment of the whole, respecting without question the orders of their superiors), with a dash of modern totalitarianism added in to enforce its tenets.
I think I'm the only person who let the Qunari take Isabella. She steals a massively religious text and then lies to you about it for a years, resulting in conflict in Kirkwall and numerous deaths of innocent people - I'm sorry...why should I save her?
I think the Qunari are really cool I am planning on been a Qunari warrior in Inquisition at some point and the Qun been super vague is the best part of the mystery of the Qun like the Dwemer in the Elder Scrolls been more of a mystery
You know the idea of the Qun in game reminds be in ideology how the Dwarves used to be… well I sappose that is a theory but titans and dwarves may have been a hive mind. This Qun philosophy attempts to create physical hive mind.
I view the Qun as a system of that life and society is a great Machine that absolutely needs to be ran the it’s meant to be ran. You have your purpose in the Machine and you will do it to the extent of how the Machine wants it. If you get tied of your purpose then you will be made to like it again. If you rebel against your purpose they you will be force to accept it or just killed. The Qun is essentially absolute order and control. That’s why (in my opinion) the Qun hates Magic. Magic gives one the power to alter reality in other words change the way the Machine works which is not good in their eyes.
as a whole i think it works and is mostly healthy for its people and society. i dont like that it has such a tight grip on peoples personal lives even though i can understand giving up personal freedoms for the greater good, or its treatment of mages and its willingness to spread and enforce the Qun through military conflict. i see how it could work for some people and how it can result in a fine line which prevents others from having personal ambitions to the point where they desert. would definitely like to experience more of it in game. far less of a religion and more of an ideology, though it probably shares some similarities there is a distinction.
Ghil, please please please, what's the music on the background? It's getting me crazy trying to remember from where i've heard it! It remembered me the ending credits of Infinity War.. but.. it can't be.. Can it ? By the way, would love to see the next game delve deeper on the Qun lore
All the background music I use is from the games! For codex entries, the music matches what game I'm talking about. For this video, its the Qunari theme from Trespasser DAI DLC!
I wonder why people take offence with the word 'Kossith' so much? Qun is a religion, and the people who believe it are Qunari, to my understanding. The majority of Qunari are Kossith yes? Those "horned-headed oxmen?" That's what their race is called. Is it the way it sounds? Is the name unlikable? Qunari sounds more elegant than Kossith... I can't wrap my head around this.
according to the wiki the term Kossith both isn't fully known and mostly only assumed as the name of the race. It also is said not to be known by the people of Thedas including the Qunari, aside from scholarly circles. Here is a thread talking about how devs differentiate Qunari /Tal-Vashoth from Kossith and David Gaider is even quoted as saying if you want to refer to the horned race to call them Qunari web.archive.org/web/20151122010842/forum.bioware.com/topic/422704-why-is-kossith-an-inaccurate-term-for-horned-qunari-and-tal-vashoth/?bioware=1
Great video, though I personally did not care for the backtracking of quanari lore the writers did for 3. It comes off as pandering but w/e. Still a fun game & series.
All I can hear when you say 'The Qun' is 'The Coon'. Is Eric Cartman running a society in Dragon Age universe where everyone should obey him? Seems plausible
So to sum up what the Qun is, it's basically and Anarcho-Collectivist or Collectivist society.Basically all are equal, responsibilities are shared and you get a position that suits your individual strengths and your merit. And being non-religious is so there will be no infighting between 2 or more groups in the Qun thus preserving the collective. Just as ants or bees in our world. That is at least what I understand of the Qun. I do not know if it is exactly like this in the Qun.
the qun actually doesnt sound that bad--take out the ben-hassrath and give the ability to choose whether one can leave and it's not a bad deal (except for the mages. fuckin sucks)
Beats the hell out of the Divine Right of Kings or power-crazed Blood Mages which is what pretty much everyone else lives under. And it's the only attempt we've seen so far in Thedas at a coherent philosophy of government
Thank you! There are some severe parts of the Qun, but, dear divines, I feel as though most of the folk condemning the Qun forget the alternative. lmao Everything south of Par Vollen is brutal chaos that is in a constant churn of genocide, *actual* slavery, racism and sexism and classism that exploits and maims and murders minorities, crusades, self-centered massacres, the illusion of choice, and steep disparity between the virtually unchangeable hierarchy between nobles and their peasantry.
And for all its imperfections the Qun rewards ability and hard work rather than ancestry and attempts to take care of its own, not just a wealthy and powerful few. That counts for a lot. You'll note they are the source of technological innovation in the known surface world.
Iron Bull is not the only one we meet that is confused by a female warrior being refered to as female so is Sten in origins he mentions your warden can not be a female as a female can not be a warrior
To me, the Qun always came across like someone in the writer's room said "what if we took Communism and made it a religion instead of a political movement?"
When speaking about dangers, there is that one small aspect about the Qunari not accepting the very existence of other societies and seeking to conquer and incorporate them forcibly.
Haha- fair point. I guess I was more focused on why the Qun itself was dangerous, even when it seems peaceful.
The lands under the White Divine feel the same way about those under the Black, and vice versa. Both of them defecate on the Elves and only grudgingly accept the Dwarves because they monopolize a vital natural resource. Invasions, dynastic wars, civil wars, Divine Marches, mass sacrifices of slaves, Secret Police Without Portfolio (the Seekers) and gawdsawful dangerous fanatical orders who happily summon up demons and do blood magic because it seemed like a good idea at the time (Grey Wardens) don't exactly seem peaceful. None of them is capable of tolerating the Qun on any level, so both halve balance out on that last score.
The danger the Qun presents isn't that it's a seductive banner for the downtrodden. It's that it bases society on a ethical philosophy and rewarding hard work and accomplishment rather than the ever-changing commands of an absent god or kissing the bum of someone who was born with a fancy title. That must terrify the nobility, any nobility. I'm not saying the Qun is perfect or even good, but it doesn't look half bad when you step back and look at the alternatives Bioware has presented.
@thomas brady Team Blight: "Why choose the lesser evil?"
Like the chantry
The danger of the Qun is the stripping of individuality. You become a “Steppenwolf” a person of one and people are meant to be many things. Father, Mother, Brother, friend, wife, husband, son, daughter, etc.
pretty bold of you to assume I'd ever sacrifice the chargers
@Melody Ackerman true i wont play skyrim with out a mod that lets me keep him alive hell half the time i turn off the bitch that demands i kill hims immortalty and shout her off of my fortress as i am the dragonborn they are sworn to serve me not me follow what they want that was one thing they really stuffed up in skyrim they broke their own lore on the dragonborns plus by that one fact alone you should be given the throne over all others as im pretty sure you could light the dragonfires and wear the amulet of kings i mean we already know of 2 family lines that could
The deaths of the mercenaries were necessary, as was the death of Iron Bull, as he was obligated to follow the Vidasala. They died with honor and purpose, which is more than most get.
I sacrificed them...whoops...
Yeah, because random side NPCs that appear in a few cutscenes are definitely more optimal than an alliance with the Qun. For a shallow sentimentalist perspective I can see the point since Iron Bull doesn't betray you but from a practical point of view it's a pretty no brainer to choose the Qun.
@@requiem5151 BROS BEFORE HOES
Sten kinda quoted it perfectly when he spoke of the Llomerryn Accord in 7:84 storm during a conversation between him and soon to be king Alistair.
Alistair: So I suppose once I'm actually king I could end up in negotiations with the Qunari one day.
Sten: My people do not negotiate.
Alistair: What do you mean? They negotiated a peace treaty after the war, and as far as I know they've kept to its terms.
Sten: They signed a piece of paper. But only because they knew that you believed in it.
Alistair: And what is the difference between that and negotiating?
Sten: They stopped fighting for their own reasons. And they will resume it again, one day. The agreement means nothing to them.
Alistair: But I thought you said your people believed in honor.
Sten: They do. The honor of the Qunari is what will bring our warships back to your shores
Taylor Krug *This* is a major reason why I loathe the Qun.
Nick White Really? It’s actually why I like it,they don’t dance around everything like normal politicians or members of a normal society,they don’t sugercoat anything for the benefit of anyone,even their friends,or Kadan.
“We will come back,we will make you bend,or we will break you”
+James.T .Adams Except they're a warring society bent on converting the world to slavery. Sure, I like the no bullshit attitude, but they're still a menace.
Michael Henry I mean,it’s not really slavery,it’s just very,very strict in its methods. The Qunari don’t do what they do out of malice,often times they believe it’s actually necessary and often times they’re right about it.
No families:no risk of child abuse or inter-family drama
No commerce:everyone has what they need,when they need it,regardless of class.
No free mages:no risk of demonic influence on the innocent population.
The Qun makes plenty of sense if you know enough about it,it’s not as malevolent as everyone makes it out to be.Take Sten for instance;he truly enjoys what he does...as much as sten can enjoy anything while still remaining hard hearted and completely stoic,but he does enjoy it.
+James.T .Adams A quote from dictionary.com, "the state or condition of being a slave; a civil relationship whereby one person has absolute power over another and controls his life, liberty, and fortune".
The Qun eliminates risks. It takes away families to prevent familial struggles, takes away commerce to provide for everyone, and forces specific jobs on people so the entire society benefits. The problem is that taking away these risks also takes away freedom. The definition above literally states slavery is the act of controlling one's life, liberty, and fortune. The Qun controls your life, forcing you into jobs that suit you, controls your fortune by eliminating commerce, and prevents you from leaving if you want out, thereby taking away your liberty.
The Qun is a societal form of slavery. Those born into the Qun are indoctrinated from a young age, so by the time they're adults, the idea of anything other than the Qun is foreign to them. They are born into slavery, raised in slavery, and accepting of slavery. If the Qun wasn't slavery, reeducation would not be a thing.
Even after all of this, the Qun would still be alright with me if it didn't do one thing: actively conquer everything. The Qun not only makes slaves of it's citizens, it wants EVERYONE to be a slave. You can't look me in the eye and tell me with a straight face that a peasant, after his kingdom is conquered by the Qunari, being integrated into the Qun against his will isn't slavery. Being FORCED into the Qun is most definitely slavery, and that's what the Qunari intend to do.
I think Iron Bull said it best. The Qun is great...for some people. For others, not so much. If it has a general global 'failing,' it's that it's aggressive...it seeks to forcibly convert even those who would never accept it, will fight it, and therefore have no future within it even if they are conquered.
I guess I sort of get why though. The philosophy doesn't say 'this is how the universe is ordered, except for the parts that don't agree with us.' Even so...it's a recipe for a long and bloody history. Not sure that's what Koslun had in mind.
Documenting the failings of the Chantry would be a whole other video. ;)
i love me some qun
Its great if you have a single digit iq
Lol if you like having ur lives decided for u and making no decisions yourself you'll love the qun
The Qun is the embodiment of templar's ideal that order is the most important thing. I really wish there will be dragon age where we begun our journey in the Qun because the qunari and their culture is one of my favorites in dragon age. and btw i always find it interesting that people really easilly said the qun is too much in controlling your every move or wish but many of them seems doesn't see that as a problem when it comes to religion doing exactly that.
The Qunari want everyone and everything to act as one functional being hence, the Arishok (the body) the Ariqun (the soul) and the Arigena (the mind) but the Qunari will never TRULY spread the Qun to everyone and for example I believe Solas summed it up best in this moment.
Solas: “I saw a young Qunari working in a simple kitchen, baking bread as she was ordered every morning. In every loaf she broke the rules. She’d take a pinch of sugar and fold it into the center, like a secret, and this act of small rebellion brought a shining smile to her face."
This along with other small moments in Inquisition indicate that while certain Qunari may be comfortably content in their “roles” whether they are conscious of it or not they will always have that small part of them that wants more in life.
At least that’s a part of my point of view of the Qun.
Those people are the kind that would require re-education, but they've been clever enough to have escaped notice. I don't think there any cases of some one individual or group consistently rebelling after being re-educated.
They are a communist shithole state and like all communist shithole states it will fail
@JamesHLanier it is infinite times better
@JamesHLanier sure bud
@@ChristianAuditore14 yeah they are not a bit based on communism but actually on platos concept of perfect state so yeah your point is invalid fam
"Magic is a sword without a hilt" by Sten
“An ashkaari walked among the fields once, observing the laborers at work. Flax bloomed all around him, the color of still water. The air rippled like a curtain. As he stopped to examine a blossom, a bee stung him on the hand. The ashkaari turned to a laborer for aid, and noticed for the first time the heavy gloves and coat she wore. As she tended to him, the ashkaari asked them why she was dressed so in such stifling heat. "To avoid your fate." She replied.
“But there are many thousands of bees here," the ashkaari said to her, "and only one stung me. Surely your caution is unwarranted?"
“The stinger is always a surprise," agreed the laborer. “But so is the bee that simply passes one by." “
"No honor, no gratitude, slight grasp of the obvious. Fine ruler, you have there."
Sten on Anora
DarkKing009 Sten knows what’s up
that he does
+James.T .Adams Mind explaining that quote?
So children in the Qun take the G.O.A.T. test from Fallout ;-)
Btw, YOU need to get into voice acting. I would love hearing your voice in a future DA character, its quite engaging and you can hear the different emotions you portray while story telling.
Jarl_Hopkins Wolf-Blood Fan turned into a voice for the game. Anyone want to make a petition for that because I'll happily sign it.
Same, just show me the dotted line.
Same, just show me the check.
I really like what the Qun brings to DA from a storyline standpoint. It's really interesting to have a neutral religious faction like this that can be friend to one protagonist and enemy to another.
+Notsosmartguy 625 Technically, unless you convert to the Qun, they'll always be your enemy.
Michael Henry true, even when Sten takes you as Kadan, he says he only "hopes to not find you on the battlefield" when he literally says they're attacking them anyway after saving the damn whole world... Again.
+Jean Henrique Yep.
That gives me the idea of playing an Inquisitor who don't necessarily know the Qun but would agree with it if they did and who acts as if they followed it. It would be the first time I sacrifice the Chargers.
The Qun is NOT a religion by the way. The Qunari never call it a religion, just outsiders, but it is not a religion. It is not even theocratic.
According to codex entry for Saarebas in DA2 it's not so much that magic can never be mastered, it's more that the mage could lose their self to a demon at any moment, and with the loss of self, suffering follows. This is why they can never master themselves and must be controlled by another.
Agreed, Yosht. The belief is that the Qun is not cruel to their mages. "The Qunari pity, but honor the Saarebas at the same time, for the Saarebas striving while under constant threat from within is truly selfless, the highest virtue of the Qun.[1]" dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Saarebas
dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Codex_entry:_The_Qunari_-_Saarebas
I say they are cruel to their mages. ;)
Yosht Is that why Sten compared a mage to a wildfire?
Powerful, possibly useful, but the results of it getting out of control can be terrible and must be prevented at all costs.
the Qun remind me of the Borg in Star Trek. Like the Borg, the Qun does not compromise. the Qun does not negotiate. the Qun does not allow dissent or thinking anything other than the thoughts you are allowed to think. Solas even explicitly calls Iron Bull a DRONE (which is the term used to refer to individual Borg units) in banter should the Chargers be sacrificed.
If you talk to Gatt at the start of Bull's loyalty mission, he tells you that even he has doubts, but he stays because otherwise the parts of the Qun he doesn't like won't change. Only he's deluding himself, because the Qun will never bow to the individual. it is the individual that must bow to the Qun.
the really scary part of the Qun, is that bit about how struggling against them is meaningless. i think it goes, "Struggle is an illusion. There is nothing to struggle against." or as the Borg would say "Resistance is futile." the only difference between them is the lack of mechanical parts. even the hive mind is in full effect.
Qunari are descendant of elfs who were infused with dragon blood as soldiers for the ancient elven gods, they can be reavers without drinking dragon blood have pointy ears and have horns. They fled to the east and now they are back.
Dragons are powerful and savage beings. This made the qunari (then called kossith) powerful and savage. Koslun knew this and implemented a philosophy/guideline to keep his kinsmen from destroying themselves and become something more.
And so the Qun was born. Now everyone has a role and everyone adheres to a strict hierarchy and are controlled through discipline and self control.
(This is just my theory but I think it makes sense)
I agree, and it explains the 'Freed are the Slaves' mossaic too, the Tevinter Imperium beleived they freed the Kossith, just like they believed they defeated the Elves.
Saying “tell me about the Qun” is like asking someone to tell you about economics. Most people know enough to get by.
Rough quote from The Iron Bull
I had a thought the other day, about how Grey Wardens might survive their Joining Rituals, and why Tal-Vashoth so far haven't survived. Or at least haven't been known to survive. I couldn't find any other topics about it, and I didn't really know where else to put it except here, so I've decided to share.
I'm thinking it actually has to do with the type of darkspawn blood gathered. Since the Grey Wardens gather it randomly from the corpses of the darkspawn they kill, it's possible that elves need shriek blood, humans need hurlock, dwarves need genlock, and Qunari need ogre blood. Since ogres are the rarest darkspawn, and if my theory is correct, it's no surprise that there hasn't been any known Tal-Vashoth or Qunari Grey Wardens. From what I've seen, elves aren't too common amongst the ranks either, with dwarves and humans making up the vast majority, which is fitting since shrieks aren't exactly numerous either.
Of course, there is one big thing against this little theory of mine, and that's Dragon Origins beginning. There are no shrieks fought in the Korcari Wilds (at least, none I recall fighting), and so your Warden can't gather any. If your Warden happens to be an elf, that makes it impossible for him/her to survive under the assumption of my theory. Or perhaps the blood used was blood gathered previously, and it was being prepared while you were out in the wilds (which honestly would make a lot of sense, as Duncan does say that the Circle mages have been preparing while you were away, if I recall correctly), and it just so happened that the blood used in Daveth's ritual was not hurlock blood, but the blood used in your Warden's ritual just happened to be the correct blood to let your Warden survive. The blood your Warden gathers with Jory and Daveth being the blood that will be used in the next Joining Ritual could be why Duncan bothered to make you retrieve the blood at all, just to make sure they had some extra on hand, just in case.
I admit, it isn't foolproof, but I think it's at least something to consider as a possibility.
That's an interesting theory. Why would each type of Darkspawn would be compatible with those corresponding Thedas peoples?
@@RashidMBey To start with, here's a reminder of some basic facts about darkspawn types, just in case it's slipped your mind; Shrieks are made from elves, genlocks from dwarves, hurlocks from humans, and ogres from qunaris. That much is known to be fact.
So, if that theory of mine actually holds up as true, the idea is that elves need what is essentially elven darkspawn blood (from shrieks) for their joining, while humans need human darkspawn blood (from hurlocks), and so on and so forth.
Obviously we also all know that they need some Archdemon blood too, but until they say otherwise, we do still operate under the belief that we need more than just archdemon blood.
Obviously it's just a theory though, but it does neatly explain how one survives the ritual, without making things too convuluted, or giving us some useless answer that doesn't actually answer the question.
It is more likely Tal-Vashoth simply do not ever seek out the Grey Wardens. Although, I am certain that if the Qunari controlled Thedas, they would definitely make Grey Wardens, and give them some special name under the Qun.
All we know so far is that whatever the Darkspawn origins are, the Chantry is wrong. How wrong, we don't know. It is also possible that the Dwarven lore may hold the answers. Although, it would be intriguing if the Dwarves themselves helped destroy their own empire inadvertently.
Doubt this is why, as it opens up a lot of plot holes, or simply brushes aside previous things working as "convenience".
It's more likely due to the DA:I hints (Kieran's speech if he has the soul of an old god) about "Qunari's blood not being their own" and other small remarks that seem to state Qunari are a transformed people, mutated from some other species' blood. Leading theory is Qunari are humans/humanoids warped by Dragon Blood, ala the old Pentaghasts, and that their blood is already too corrupted to survive being Blighted (hence why we get reports of Tal Vashoth taking the joining in Inquisition but its suspiciously that no Qunari Wardens were seen even after that, as you've alluded to). Also explains why Qunari have a weird relationship with Dragons, and why the Iron Bull reacts incredibly aroused and saying you smell *great* if you specialize as a Reaver and start drinking dragon blood. IRC, he even remarks you smell like Qunari.
I've been playing through the Dragon Age games again (I can't go a long time in between playing them lol) and your videos help enrich the lore of the games for me. I love your videos!
The in-game codex's don't do it for you?
I personally love reading those
Unfortunate thing about free will is the fact that in order for it to exist... individuals must be free to make the "wrong" choice. We learn more from mistakes than anything else. Failure is a cornerstone of progress. The Qun seems more cowardly than anything else to me. A society protecting itself from bad choices by allowing no choices at all. Replacing the ills of most free societies with an existential sort of... stagnation. To what capacity do locusts have to enjoy their own existence?
Obviously I'm with Solus with regard to the Qun. I can respect their efficiency, but what is lost is more valuable than what is gained to me.
I personally think they drew a lot of inspiration, for the Qun, from Plato's Republic. Though definitely with a mix of Buddhist and Confucianist concepts. Denial of the self, importance of societal structure, etc.
It has almost nothing in common with the works of Kong fu it does have elements in common but those are that it has in common with every philosophy of the ancient world.
Which parts of Plato's Republic?
I think it's more like Misunderstood Fantasy Authoritarian Communism with Confuciunist gender politics thrown in there
I'll admit I do like the simplicity to the Qun the idea of focusing and mastering a task that I'm best suited for does sound decent, but as always with any system there's that pitfall of horrendous methods to keep one in line and lacking in individuality. It is however no wonder why someone like Fenris is able to understand it's mentality and many poorly treated elves like Gatt turn towards it.
Food for thought.. The Kossith where sported in the Kocari wilds in -410 ancient, the Imperial Highway was built between
-692 to -597 ancient. In Emprise du Lion, we can see carvings of a Femme Kossith built into the old Tevinter highway.
This would imply that the Kossith where around before -410 ancient.
I thought the carved female on the highway in Emprise du lion was a Desire Demon or something of the sort with how she is dressed and how the horns appear.
Running across a lot of people calling it communist in the comments. No, the Qun is not communist, just ask any Communist philosopher, and they will indeed tell you. I am personally tired of folks taking every single Utopian dictatorship and automatically claiming it to communism. If the Qun were communist, it would be talking about the problems of a higharcy and how the working-class should seize the means of production. It makes it very clear that it is hierarchical in its nature to function and takes about nothing when it comes to Working-Class revolution. In fact, I think if you had a Qunari talk with Karl Marx, the two would hate one another. The Qunari would hate Marx for trying to resist the fundamental nature of the universe and Marx hating the Qunari for not giving equal power to everyone.
Yes yes because communist states are the workers utopia where they flourish and don't become enslaved by the ruling class that has been every communist County in history. The qun is communism in reality.
@@cdb5961 No even in "reality." the Qun and Communisim is diffrent. In the USSR you could actually leave your job as a miner to become a teacher if you so wish to, in the Qun your stuck with the role your assassigned. Further there is no talk about "withering the end of the state and class divides." even in some propaganda sense to the Qun there is a class Higharchy that is naterual to the world.
If we are going to play the "this fictional group is like this real life group." the Qun is more close to what Jorden Peterson professess (or does he not argue for some form of higharchy and worry about Incels not able to make children.)
Look I know it’s because DA2 players were trying to smash, but between this and her betraying Hawke for a BOAT, its real hard to honestly and realistically rationalize letting Isabella live
Due to growing up with a drug addicted mother and an absent father, I had a very unstable life. I crave stability in my life and now I'm very against change out of fear and paranoia. I feel like I'd thrive under the Qun because of the stability it offers.
I feel this but right now its the constant threat of financial instability and ruin for me... trying to make ends meet burning myself out trying to have enough for me and my fiancé whose working just as hard but never able to thrive...
Id love stability and knowing what’s coming next and that I have a place to thrive based on my skill set
Provided you can give up everything that makes you you.
Personality is not allowed under the Qun, so if you like telling jokes you will be 're-educated',for example. And if you ever fall in love you will be taken by the Ben Hassrath and tortured and have your mind poisoned until you are a mindless drone.
Sound good to you?
@@SevCaswell Well if I grew up under the Qun chances are I wouldn’t know what I’d be missing out on unless I got a job like Bull that exposed me to the outside world. But let’s look at elves. Lots of them join the Qun because of how the outside world treats them and they find comfort in being a part of it. I could have a good life outside the Qun, yes, but all I’m saying is that I’d be fine living under it.
@@SevCaswell What's your source that jokes aren't allowed? That seems patently untrue. Poetry and metaphor seem to be a large part of the Qun. Personality? The Qun doesn't strip you of personality, you have that. They give you strong purpose and abolish your reliance on familial relationships for stability and kinship. Iron Bull and the Qunari we meet have blatant personalities and shared histories on which they reflect fondly. They don't "re-educate" you for jokes, dude.
The Qun simply states that the purposes of relationships can be fulfilled with people who solely embody that specific task. You want sexual relations? People specialize in that. You want good bread? People have devoted their entire life to mastering the art of bread. Of horticulture. Etc.
@@RashidMBey you really don't understand the nature of comedy and humour. Comedy is intrinsically subversive, it pokes fun at superiors, points out mistakes, makes unflattering comparisons. Have you ever heard a funny joke that did not do any of those things?
Also you talk of people 'dedicating their lives' to their roles. Those roles are forced on them, and if that role is not suited to them they must report themselves to the ben hasrath as defective and either be tortured until they fit their assigned role or be assigned a different role, which perhaps they will be even less suited to, without knowing at all which of those options will be chosen for them, or simply stick it out in misery.
It is quite literally stated that a qunari ONLY HAS A SOUL IF THYE HAVE A JOB and that soul only exists within the tools of that job.
Notice none of the race of horn people have horns in Dragon Age Origins and Dragon Age Awakening? If you make a hornless inquisitor, people may call you a horned creature and a note says you have horns. Spoilers ahead
If Iron Bull’s group dies, he stays loyal to the Qun until he betrays you 🤣. I saw that crumpled note, they were going against the wishes of the Arishok which kind of makes them Tal-Vashoth.
Joe Nesvick argh i wish i didnt read your comment it spoiled it to me
Abd. T Juliano don’t you just hate spoilers for a four year old game, on a spoiler all video of it no less.
the lack of horns was a game limitation, but has been embraced by the lore, as a rare genetic quirk that is seen as advantagous or superior.
@@SevCaswell part graphical limitation (the official stance) part none of the races being that distinguishable in DA:O. The elves all looked indistinguishable from humans in DA:O. Its funny, this made them overcompensate for racial distinguishers in DA2 and all the races were dialed back in DA:I.
Elves went from slightly shorter humans with pointy ears to fucking walking skeletons whose bone structure was a thing of nightmares, to slimmer humans with functional skeletons in DA:I
Qunari went from tall humans with metalic skin in Origins, to multi-horned, gigantic demon men in DA2, to very tall and generally muscular ox-men in DA:I
Dwarves pretty much didn't change during the games though
The Qun is quite honestly the most unique creation I've ever encounter in any fantasy ever. As a greek, the whole thing being based of Plato's 'The Republic' makes it feel really eerie to my senses. I think the most awkward thing about it is that -baring the fantastical elements- it feels like a legitimately solid governing system.
I've been enjoying these videos. A lot of DA content is approximately related to cultures a la real world (Orlais being France, Tevinter close Russian, Fereldan closer to English).
I find the "Qun" to be a part of a trend in fantasy that articulates "otherness" in a way that is undigestable for the perspective of the player/narrative. In this respect, the Qun play the same "role" as Haradrim in LotR and Qarth in ASoIaF. For this trope to work, it seems the lack of information speaks to a cultural disconnect in legal/social expectations. In IRL, the Qun seem to have a lot of comparisons with Islamic Law/Contemporary Chinese governing structures (just IMO at face value). I also think it speaks to a level of salience regarding not representing the other as potentially a racial conflict.
Keep the videos coming, they're terrific!
"The Qun is the most comfortable form of slavery"
This gave me a feeling of both dread and safety
Bravo 👏👏👏👏👏
As another commenter pointed out the Qun is the Borg but magical instead of mechanical.
I was watching this in a separate tab without seeing the title of the video and after an initial confusion at the intro, I nearly DIED when you said "PERHAPS YOU SHOULD JOIN THE QUN" LMFAO.
You know, when the Qun was first introduced by Sten in Origins it honestly seemed like an interesting approach to live your own life. I may have not agreed with him every single time (especially when it came to magic) but I respected his opinion because he was willing to cooperate. After playing the other parts of the series I still think it's interesting but the whole anti individuality thing, forcibly converting unwilling people and the use of "Quamek" kinda leave a very bad taste in my mouth.
Enjoy your re-education camp and if you don't well too bad.
I did not know the Arishok was such a big deal when playing Dragon Age 2. I will have to revisit that game now because Hawke is probably a person of great interest to the Qunari.
So stealing the Tome was like stealing the Pope's bible, or the oldest bible known?
It's like stealing their equivalent of the Bible, only in this version Jesus himself wrote both the old and new testament and also he's not the son of God but a very pragmatic, and bleak, philosopher.
So actually closer to stealing the collected works of Confucius, I guess?
Krem would be considered a warrior because he is a male, even under the qun. They have a name for it I can't remember. Sten is confused by the Warden because she still presents as a woman, even as a warrior. Not because she is a person with a vagina who is also a warrior.
Yes but it has been taken to be a slight case of retconning after Gaider had gone back to the table to add details on the Qunari. It seems that originally he planned for a more sexist race but instead changed it to a sort of inflexible race where sex doesn't HAS to determine your job,but instead if you end up being a good warrior then they say you are a male and that's that. It suits their inflexible nature in a way and Sten does kind of implies a similar idea even back in Origins since I do remember he did say something akin to "then you are a male" during one of those weird backand forth where the Warden kept insisting she was a female warrior.
When you realize that Isabela...
STOLE the entire QUN
At the end of Act 2
Aveline: “You lived your life for the Qun, you gonna die for some Elves?”
Arishok: “Someone is.”
I think one should avoid the word "religion" with the Qun - it doesn't have any supernatural aspects as far as we know.
It's a societal philosophy
Cassandra calls it a relgion when talking to Varric in DA2, but her viewpoint is from a world where such fanaticism is suually only seen in the followers of relgion in Thedas.
Koslun is revered and honored, but the Qunari don't view him as supernatural from what we've seen.
I think the DA Wiki nails it in the first sentence:
"Ashkaari Koslun is a kossith philosopher and the founder of the Qun − one of the major schools of thought in Thedas."
The only problem I have with the Qun is the way mages are treated under it.
The mages are treated the same as the rest of the qunari, the requirement to control them are simply stronger because of their strength.
@@SevCaswell That's hyperbolic, if you don't mean it poetically. Mages are venerated as selfless and sacrificial dangers but are treated as though they could undergo demonic possession and wipe at a village at any moment.
@@RashidMBey It has been stated by the devs that qunari mages are intrinsically stronger than human or elvhen mages, due to their having some form of dragon blood. Also the qunlat word for mage literally means 'dangerous thing', and the use of 'bas' or 'thing' is a perjorative, used to describe all life other than qunari, such as humans.
Also, in the lore, the Qun was apparently developed to control the inherantly besital nature of the qunari, that it is believed a qunari without the qun can also go beserk and murder innocents even if they are not a demon possessed mage. This is often cited as the reason that Sten in DA:O murdered the family that tried to save him.
Magic IS dangerous however. Even before the veil, the elves were inslaved to the strongest mages of their society. Magic in the hands of the greedy and unworthy is a danger to everyone. However, even in the real world, integrity and honor are rare.
I would like one qun please
Dirimi would you like fries with that. You can also supersize for an extra 10 cents?
Sorry we had to stop selling that
Hope ya not a mage
*Soviet anthem starts playing*
Preevyet comrade
So I'm new to your videos and I really enjoy your lore videos :) keep it up!
The Qun is literally Plato's Republic
Very close.
I know 2 thing about the Qunari.
The Qunari "act" is unpleasant.
Qunari are feared because they are thinking men, not an unthinking force.
This was beautiful and informative 😍 I also find Solas' comments on the matter to be veri on point
I was looking for interesting lore videos and I found your channel..I like your work and u have another sub!!
To put it simply: if the Qun was perfect, Tal-Vashoth wouldn’t exist
That! Personally, I don't think that the Qun is in any way better or worse than the rest of the religions/cultures of Thedas as they all treat dessidents with similar scorn and violence.
"Saying, "tell me about the Qun" is like saying "tell me about economics" its just too broad of a topic for casual discussion
(Iron Bull. DA Inquisition)."
"the qunari are dangerous because they are thinking men." by Sten
I had always thought the race itself was called Vashoth which just means Grey. Tal-Vashoth means true Grey , like in giving up the Qun the give into their true barbaric nature and that the Qun was their only form of order. I can't remember where i heard that, I'm pretty sure it was tumblr. so take it with a grain of salt.
it says in the Wiki that those that just go by Vashoth are the children or grandchildren of Tal-Vashoth born out side of the Qun.
there is that Codex entry; Vashoth: The Grey Ones where Genitivi asked a Vashoth about the Qun. which is kind of entertaining.
i find the race itself fascinating but I can't say I care for the Qun teachings. especially with how The Iron Bull talks about it. and what it would do to the Inquisitors inner circle if the Qunari took over. I've never sacrificed the Chargers, I know Bull betrays you for the Qun if they die. but I believe he was never happy in the Qun. its almost like slavery. you're never happy but content as long as you fulfill his role and as most Qunari don't know anything else they don't question they are taught not to question. I Don't know I'm rambling as I listen to your video.
They are! One day I'll go into this deeper, but Qunari, Vashoth, and Kossith are all used for the race, with varying degrees of correctness. The problem with picking anything other than Qunari, is that it confuses casual and new fans. While I could use the correct term all the time, a lot of people rolling in are going to be confused what the Vashoth are, while also asking for more videos on Qunari, not knowing the two are the same.
So- I usually end up using Qunari, because it's just easier on everyone.
Thats understandable. and also probably the same reason why its rarely mentioned in game too lol. I don't think Bull or Sten would think there is a point in educating southern Thedas about it all, especially with the likes of Genitivi spreading assumptions about them- and people just not liking Qunari. *shrug*
I look forward to your Videos. and can't wait till a follow up on this.
The Qun is harsher version of the Menbari from Babylon 5. Both separate their societies into 3 castes; warrior, spiritual, and craftsman. The spiritual cast controls the spies. Order and honor are upheld at the individual level, and the greater good is up most goal of of the society. Foreigners are not generally allowed in their home region/planet.
I’d love the Qun to be explored more in future dragon age games as dlc or maybe a plot devise in the vanilla experience. Though I do think Iron Bull , his story’s and his personal quests as well as the trespasser dlc was a step in the right direction. I find there totalitarian view on the perfect society fascinating as well as scary and draws some interesting parallels to real life history.
+Sam Atkinson We'll probably be getting the Qunari up front and center along with Tevinter in the next DA game.
Michael Henry Yeah I suppose we are going toTevinter making it inevitable that there will be a storyline (if not the main quest ) that will involve the Qunari.
+Sam Atkinson Yep, and the trespasser dlc certainly set them up to be a main faction in the game. They resumed their hostilities with Tevinter and are invading. Since we'll be in Tevinter the next game, I'd say they'll most definitely play a role. No doubts at all.
Michael Henry I hope we get a companion or at least someone who we are able to have conversions with who is part of the Qun in da4.
+Sam Atkinson Yeah, but that may be hard if you ally with Tevinter. (Which I'm totally gonna do)
I spared the Chargers, no regrets
The Qun reminds me of this book I've read.....The Giver. Both are pretty similar.
Poetically enough, this reminds me a lot of Parson from 1984. As devout as he is to The Party, a part of him whispers in his sleep, "Down with Big Brother."
"Qunari" means "people of the Qun" I believe. The people who came up with the concept were called Kossith, but it is unclear whether it was the name of the species of horned giants, or just a faction/tribe of them.
sweet, thanks for all the quality content! I also agree, it's not just a religion. It reminds me most of totalitarian ideologies, like they had in the Soviet Union or in North Korea today, just more fantasy.
Not really... I mean, post Stalin SSSR, yes...
It's based on the ideal state described by Plato
Wow the Qun in the literal worst. Kind of reminds me of the cult from the show the 100.
I notice an awful lot of folks down-thread saying "Communism!" Not quite. It's not a system based on an industrial society where workers own the means of production.
Then what is it? There's a big hint in how all the quotes from The Big Book O' Qunnity are written, in poetry. It's a moral philosophy based on mutual obligation, ethics, defined courtesies and social roles, orderly disposition of society, and living together humanely within the Qun. It's all based on sincere dedication to acting correctly on all levels.
This should start sounding familiar...
"Only when things are investigated is knowledge extended; only when knowledge is extended are thoughts sincere; only when thoughts are sincere are minds rectified; only when minds are rectified are the characters of persons cultivated; only when character is cultivated are our families regulated; only when families are regulated are states well governed; only when states are well governed is there peace in the world"
Yeah, it's awfully close to Confucian give or take some methods, a three party check-and-balance, and some handwaving over filial piety. Another giveaway is the priesthood and the lack of god-based religion. Under a Confucian ordering of society there is a sort of diffuse "religion" where a priesthood answers philosophical and ethical questions and ritualized actions suffuse daily life. The rituals aren't to appease the gods but instill wisdom and humane relations. Government officials order the laws and policies according to moral philosophy. The Arigen and the groups she represents are a bit different, but close enough for a fantasy setting with dragon-blooded horned giants.
I'm not saying it's one-for-one, but it's a much better match than Marxist anything which isn't big on ritual, mutual obligation, or courtesies taken to the point of religion. And it still explains why so many Westerners including our own Ghil Dirthalen react with visceral distaste and words like "dangerous". This is an alien way of thinking to most of us. In our world it still remains to be seen whether it's better than the radical individualism currently in vogue. But consider the alternatives. In Orlais or Nevarre it's all down to who your ancestors were. Individual merit counts for very little. In Ferelden governance and social order are all about which thug was able to kill enough people to grab the throne. Tevinter is a hereditary aristocracy run by Blood Mages. The Dwarves have an utterly hidebound caste system. The Elves are a scattered, shattered remnant. Compared to this does a society based on giving everyone useful work that they're likely to be good at, guaranteeing a decent standard of living, rewarding merit and hard work, and keeping supreme power out of single pair of hands really seem so bad?
it because the Qun are basically" the needs of the many out weigh the needs of the few"
Yes, yes it does.
10:33 I mean... overreact to _exactly_ the wrong shit is pretty much a light Wednesday to Thedas (read: "to The Chantry"), tbf...
You've let me wishing to be part of them with that intro
I've never liked how Sten describes magic as "...a sword without a hilt." considering he butchered an entire family of humans who saved his live for no other reason than because he lost his own sword. He acts like mages could just kill at any moment completely ignoring that he did the exact same thing.
Sounds like a melding of Greko-Roman Stoicism and Trotsky's brand of communism
I’m hoping Dreadwolf gives us a romancable Qunari mage. Talk about a complex companion character, right? They’d be so interesting!
I've always thought that Thedas heavely ressembles Europe during the late middle ages/early renassaince period (Ferelden is Britain, Orlais is France, Tevinter is the Byzantine Empire and so on) so I've always saw the qunari to be the Ottomans in this world. A society created to be in conflict with everything "western". They want to spread their filosophy through any means necessary, are infamous for their holy wars, they use gunpowder and the elves (who can be seen as jews or maybe romani) are the most likely to convert, as the jews were likely to thrive under muslim rule.
What do you think? Am I onto something or just seeing things?
Yeah, the Qunari absolutely do seem to resemble the Ottomans in terms of their relationship to the other major powers... but their society doesn't really resemble that of the Ottomans at all. The Qun in particular is nothing like Islam. It more closely resembles Confucius or maybe Plato's philosophy of the "ideal" society (everyone in their naturally-assigned place, working together for the betterment of the whole, respecting without question the orders of their superiors), with a dash of modern totalitarianism added in to enforce its tenets.
Avvar - Scandinavia
Antiva - Spain or Italy
Anderfels - Germany
So the tome of Koslun. Is like the true cross.
#Koslundidnothingwrong
I think I'm the only person who let the Qunari take Isabella. She steals a massively religious text and then lies to you about it for a years, resulting in conflict in Kirkwall and numerous deaths of innocent people - I'm sorry...why should I save her?
JellyBumFruitcakes for the sake of pussy and the only good Qunari is the one who's dead
You save her because she is Merrill’s best friend 😝
plus arishok is soo bad ass its sad seeing him die
Since so much of Thedas seems a direct allegory to Europe, I always pondered if the Qunari were made to resemble the Ottomans
I think the Qunari are really cool I am planning on been a Qunari warrior in Inquisition at some point and the Qun been super vague is the best part of the mystery of the Qun like the Dwemer in the Elder Scrolls been more of a mystery
As much as I can sum it up, the Qun is a society that values a sense of order. But even that is an oversimplification.
You know the idea of the Qun in game reminds be in ideology how the Dwarves used to be… well I sappose that is a theory but titans and dwarves may have been a hive mind. This Qun philosophy attempts to create physical hive mind.
The Qun did not take the Dales
DarkKing009 yea, just the whole northern thedas and nowadays is still trying to take Tevinter
Also the next DA happens in Tevinter, that means we'll need to beat the crap out of the Qunari again, GREAT!
Good stuff.
The benhaasroth take you the re-educators, the ate the ones that "fix" you.
Reminds me of the Templars from the Assassins creed series
Welp, I'm subscribing
I view the Qun as a system of that life and society is a great Machine that absolutely needs to be ran the it’s meant to be ran. You have your purpose in the Machine and you will do it to the extent of how the Machine wants it. If you get tied of your purpose then you will be made to like it again. If you rebel against your purpose they you will be force to accept it or just killed. The Qun is essentially absolute order and control. That’s why (in my opinion) the Qun hates Magic. Magic gives one the power to alter reality in other words change the way the Machine works which is not good in their eyes.
Tbh... The Qun strikes me as Calvinist work ethics and theology on super steroids
Nice!
as a whole i think it works and is mostly healthy for its people and society. i dont like that it has such a tight grip on peoples personal lives even though i can understand giving up personal freedoms for the greater good, or its treatment of mages and its willingness to spread and enforce the Qun through military conflict. i see how it could work for some people and how it can result in a fine line which prevents others from having personal ambitions to the point where they desert. would definitely like to experience more of it in game. far less of a religion and more of an ideology, though it probably shares some similarities there is a distinction.
You forgot the very important fact that their women are well fit
"WoFf"
-Sera
Imo their women are designed to be far too nimble compared to their men.
the guys vary in body size tho. All they have to do is makea few qunari women iron bull size and it evens out
Ghil, please please please, what's the music on the background?
It's getting me crazy trying to remember from where i've heard it!
It remembered me the ending credits of Infinity War.. but.. it can't be.. Can it ?
By the way, would love to see the next game delve deeper on the Qun lore
All the background music I use is from the games! For codex entries, the music matches what game I'm talking about. For this video, its the Qunari theme from Trespasser DAI DLC!
It's from the Trespasser soundtrack. I think it's called "Qunari atmosphere".
Qunmunism
I wonder why people take offence with the word 'Kossith' so much? Qun is a religion, and the people who believe it are Qunari, to my understanding. The majority of Qunari are Kossith yes? Those "horned-headed oxmen?" That's what their race is called. Is it the way it sounds? Is the name unlikable? Qunari sounds more elegant than Kossith... I can't wrap my head around this.
according to the wiki the term Kossith both isn't fully known and mostly only assumed as the name of the race. It also is said not to be known by the people of Thedas including the Qunari, aside from scholarly circles. Here is a thread talking about how devs differentiate Qunari /Tal-Vashoth from Kossith and David Gaider is even quoted as saying if you want to refer to the horned race to call them Qunari web.archive.org/web/20151122010842/forum.bioware.com/topic/422704-why-is-kossith-an-inaccurate-term-for-horned-qunari-and-tal-vashoth/?bioware=1
I suspect that Bioware really wanted to name it “The Qin” instead of “The Qun”.
Great video, though I personally did not care for the backtracking of quanari lore the writers did for 3. It comes off as pandering but w/e. Still a fun game & series.
Do you think Qun was actually DA equivalent of Socialism or even Communism ?
The Qun
Peace and comfort
or else
All I can hear when you say 'The Qun' is 'The Coon'. Is Eric Cartman running a society in Dragon Age universe where everyone should obey him? Seems plausible
Bayer Prairie
As to worship, it has been stated by the series creators that the Qun is NOT Atheist.
Pretty sure there not a load to switch jobs of there choosing
Hey! Can u please tell me 7:15 what shield that is?
Ornate round shield! But modded to not be a bleh schematic
To everyone thinking this sounds like communism, you have no idea how wrong you are.
It's like communism meets fascism.
So to sum up what the Qun is, it's basically and Anarcho-Collectivist or Collectivist society.Basically all are equal, responsibilities are shared and you get a position that suits your individual strengths and your merit. And being non-religious is so there will be no infighting between 2 or more groups in the Qun thus preserving the collective. Just as ants or bees in our world. That is at least what I understand of the Qun. I do not know if it is exactly like this in the Qun.
its a society foccused on being best possible for ppl to best they can at what they to closest to perfect than anything else in thedas
The Qun is slavery
It’s theological communism
the qun actually doesnt sound that bad--take out the ben-hassrath and give the ability to choose whether one can leave and it's not a bad deal (except for the mages. fuckin sucks)
Am I da only person dat wants 2 introduce da Qunari 2 absurdism
Yes! More Qunari!
Beats the hell out of the Divine Right of Kings or power-crazed Blood Mages which is what pretty much everyone else lives under. And it's the only attempt we've seen so far in Thedas at a coherent philosophy of government
Thank you! There are some severe parts of the Qun, but, dear divines, I feel as though most of the folk condemning the Qun forget the alternative. lmao Everything south of Par Vollen is brutal chaos that is in a constant churn of genocide, *actual* slavery, racism and sexism and classism that exploits and maims and murders minorities, crusades, self-centered massacres, the illusion of choice, and steep disparity between the virtually unchangeable hierarchy between nobles and their peasantry.
And for all its imperfections the Qun rewards ability and hard work rather than ancestry and attempts to take care of its own, not just a wealthy and powerful few. That counts for a lot. You'll note they are the source of technological innovation in the known surface world.
Iron Bull is not the only one we meet that is confused by a female warrior being refered to as female so is Sten in origins he mentions your warden can not be a female as a female can not be a warrior
She… literally lists that example?
Question if all Qunari mages are leashed and mouthes are sewn shut like the sareebas , why wasn't the Viddasla leashed in trespasser?
Jt Jose The Viddasala wasn't a mage.
The Qun does sound a bit like communism. Except the starvation part...
To me, the Qun always came across like someone in the writer's room said "what if we took Communism and made it a religion instead of a political movement?"
Would the Qun be considered a "way of life" type of thing? Rather than a religion?
Only if they don't follow it religiously...