Keith at 22:24 you say that the switch (2-3) on the motor starter is Normally Closed, that should be Normally Open. The Blue - Black wire on the motor starter are only connected when the coil is energized. Great diagrams, and good explanation. I had never looking into a motor starter before. It is really a latching relay with thermal overload protection. Understanding how it works is the way to go.
Good Job ! Both the IEC (your "new style") and NEMA (your "old style") starters have extra Aux contact for alarming, signaling, or whatever you need for your control. In the heavy duty industrial applications I was involved with, we used NEMA due to them being oversized and their ability to withstand multiple overload conditions without damage.
Thank you for keeping it simple! I can finally wrap my head around this concept now. This is great for visual people like me....and thanks for the drawings with different states of the circuit. Super helpful.
Thanks for taking the time to explain this I know you need them on a big motor but I never understood how to wire them or how they worked. Thanks again...
Nicely done Keith. Having worked in a shop before I wired up a few machines with the electricians. This was when I was about 18~19, so I was just learning stuff. You did a much better job of explaining it than they did. They were more "yea, just wire it like this". I was "WHY!?!", they were "Because it will work this way". I kind of wondered if they actually knew...LOL
@@sixonegfour2719 honestly? I was 18. How much did I know then. My uncle was a master electrician and taught me a few things. I know enough to know when I need help that's for sure. I also have a brother in law who is a master electrician, so I got that going for me. Lol
excellent video and exactly what I needed thank you so very much... but sadly I have adult severe ADHD and I'm going to have to watch the video 50 times to completely get it
I've got an old HUGE (200LB) Baldor Bench Grinder at a factory maint. shop auction that had the push button start/stop but was removed by an idiot. I had the bits n pieces but could never figure out the wiring! THIS VIDEO WILL HELP GET IT UP AND RUNNING FINALLY!!!!!
The schematics for this circuit are all over the net. But try to find schematics for a latching circuit where the coil and load voltage are different. The only one of those you'll find is the one I posted. Because I looked for one. For like 3 days. Then I gave up and just made my own. Which I then decided to post for the next poor fool that might need it.
Keith, thanks for a great explanation of how all this stuff works. I agree that it's really important for those of us "playing" with older machines to understand how things work and not just try to get by with "connect terminal a to terminal b, then c to d" style of working. When you understand how it all works, you can confirm for yourself what will happen when the power goes out or there is an overload. If you don't understand how something works you really don't know if it's safe (electrical or otherwise). This is not easy to explain and I think you did a great job. BTW, for those accomplishing the same task with a VFD, things are done a little differently, but all the same safety considerations need to be taken into account.
Up to my ears in that myself. I’m learning more about phase converters and motor starters than I ever wanted to know. However, it’s absolutely essential. Thanks, John
If you only want to know the wiring diagram, this ain’t the channel for you. Mr. Rucker is an educator and an entertainer who provides the interested parties a platform for both. Love your work, Mr. Rucker.
Great video I setup my air compressor roughly that way. No overload. Put a 3 phase (it's what I had on hand. Didn't need to be a 3 phase switch) magnetic switch in the 1 phase 220v line. To activate the switch I use a 110 wifi smart switch. Didn't want the compressor to have power on it when I wasn't home and manually tripping the breaker is impractical. So I walk in the shop and tell "Google to turn on compressor". Smart switch closes its contact witch sends 110v to the bigger switch with the 220v line and closes that contacts witch makes the compressor work normal as if it had power all the time. Saves money and I don't have to worry about the compressor contacts sticking closed with out me there. It has happened before..
I thought you said you were not an electrician. That was a good explanation. I am now working on an old industrial oven control that I plan to use for a foundry furnace. Circulator and exhaust fan, air flow switches, purge timer, flame sensor, pilot light, ignition and main gas. Lots of interlocks, timers and motor starters.
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. i really appreciate the side by side demonstration. I never really understood the overload relays and how they tied into the control circuits. Great down to earth explanation of it all.
In the video at 5:27 when you are explaining how the motor starter works you said that normally the circuit is closed actually the circuit is normally open until the coil is energized. Great video though keep up the good work !
It probably should have been mentioned that there are different sizes of starters for different sizes of motors. One of yours was marked "Size 0" which is rated for up to 3 HP when operated at 230V (or 5HP at 460V). There is a smaller size, Size 00, good for up to 1.5HP at 230V as well as larger sizes up to Size 6 for a 200HP motor at 230V. You can find sizing charts online.
Good explanation! One comment regarding the "protector"... A 3 phase motor will burn up if it looses any ONE of the three phases. (The other 2 wires draw massive current) Hence, the motor-protector is intended to trip when a single phase is lost. (again...because the other 2 phases will draw excessive current)
Yes, that's the main reason i always use those (in Europe almost all industrial motors are 3 phase because of the 380/400V system, in most countries here, with one or two exeptions, like Norway, it is super expensive to use high current, but one allredy hawe "free" extra volts in the domestic lines in many countries (except for coutries that are for some reson using divided phase systems for the domestic lines, like Holland)), another thing in Europe is that many people does not seem to know about how important it is to newer ever run a 3 phase motor with Y-D connection in Y (star) moder for longer periods under load since that will also result in the coils runs extremly hot (unless the motor is especialy built to be run that way). Most old industrial systems here are using manual Y-D switching, but the modern systems are using automatic switching. (I think You will hawe 220V in America with the centerzero system, wich is the old domestic standard (outside the UK 240V centerfuse system) for countries wich are using the regular 3 phase 280V phase system. (today it is for some reason 230 and 400V after the EU standard))
That was a good explanation of a contactor circuit with overload protection. One option that I have encountered on our heavy duty 480 volt pressure washers at work, is a rotary on/off switch in lieu of push buttons which I do not care for. Our equipment has a time delay in the lock circuit that won't operate unless there is water pressure present at the pump. It's just a more complicated circuit. There's a good possibility that the machine could be turned on when a power disruption is resolved. I hope in your next installment on this machine that when you begin to discuss wiring it up that you can discuss horsepower amperage draw in relation to wire gauge, and phase rotation, which can be changed from changing any two legs of the 3 phase motor in one of 4 places. It can be done on L1, 2, 3, on the contactor or on t1, 2, 3 of the same. It can be done on the electrical breakers, or in the event of a plug, it could also be done at this point. Again, thanks for the well thought out discussion on this safety feature. On further point I would suggest is that if/when this shaper is plugged in, that the breaker or disconnect box be turned off before plugging it in as high voltage does have a risk of arcing when plugging in, even with a contactor deactivated. The company that we contract with has made this a work rule.
The great thing about this channel is that I can understand every word he is saying unlike the Indian dialect videos. I am not saying the indian videos are not correct and I am not taking away from the work put forth in those videos. I just like a video that I can understand with proper english without the accent.
Our 3 phase reticulation pump was manually started and stopped. Occasionally the protection circuits in the switch used to burn out, so our electrician connected 95 to A1 (same as on your diagram), protecting the protection device. Following this, the motor burned out a couple of times. Further investigation revealed that one of the phases had an intermittent poor connection. We learned that an important function of the protection circuit is to cut power on all phases if the current on one phase reduces or stops.
Serendipitously I discovered that by dragging the video slider back and forth you can animate Keith's switch drawings like a flip sheet. Some of the positions are a little obstructed but done on purpose I think this phenomenon could be used to great affect in future videos.
Motors need to be “over fused” because they take large amounts of current to start, but they also need to be protected from long term overload during use. The “heater” over current device builds slowly (relatively) and accepts the high inrush of current during starting from a stoped rotor but will trip if a motor is drawing much lower current (relative to the brief starting current) that is higher than its rating. AND: series all your STOP buttons, and parallel all your START buttons if you have more than one start/stop station.
If one opts to use a static phase converter, make sure you read/understand the instructions! I was able to get a used Ronk static converter at a really good price. One thing the paperwork emphasizes is that nothing except the motor itself gets connected to the created/generated leg. I had to trace out, and sometimes move, wiring on my controls and relays, in order to use the converter on my surface grinder. Another item is that the converter must be tuned to the machine, or you risk overheating and damaging your motor. If you can't get, follow, understand the instructions to your particular converter ... get help! Statics are not "plug and play." Especially on a machine that was previously used in a shop that had commercial 3 phase power.
@@melgross if you think there is a mechanical latch then you did not get it. What latches this circuit is how it is wired. The start button energizes the coil and pulls the relay on. Once it is on switched power from the load side keeps the coil on. Then what you do with the start button does not matter. But when you hit stop that cuts power to the coil which opens the relay. Cutting power to the whole circuit turns it off too. And when it gets powered back up it will be in the off state. There's no mechanical latch whatsoever. That would defeat the purpose of this circuit. Well, one purpose. The other purpose is to make it easier to put on and off switches where they can be used.
@@1pcfred So if you only want a momentary on, you would disconnect the power lead from the load side to the coil? I wish he had explained how to install a momentary switch,such as a foot switch. Better yet, a way to have a momentary (bump) switch and a latching switch.
Great instruction. I'm glad you got around to the safety stop button at the end. With that machine are you contemplating using a safety stop? I spent nearly fifty years in a production environment where the Safety Stops were mandatory and not mandatory. I know you are not in a production envoronment with many people around at once, however please take the safety stop into consideration. If you are going to station the operator at the start stop switch, then it becomes somewat safer, however if the operation requires moving around the machine, mulitple safety stop buttons could save someone (especially you) from serious consequences. Those Safety stops are cheap insurance against serious injury or worse. In addition there may be some liability issues when you host one of your many gettogethers'. Just a friendly note from an old Safety Manager.
Not being in a production environment makes safety stops even more essential as there would be no one there to help in an emergency. With all those belts and cog wheels on the the planer I can see lots of pinch points to grab overalls, so emergency stop buttons within easy reach on all sides of the machine should be an essential safety feature. And considering the table moving backwards and forwards as well, I think a "Rope Pull Safety Switch" emergency system running all the way around the unit would a useful option. These are not expensive items and installation of such would make a very interesting additional video
An interesting aside, for fractional or small HP motors, Shop Fox makes a paddle type on off switch that has a coil and contacts in it and functions like a magnetic starter but without the overload protection. Grizzly sells this switch in both a 120v and 240v version (110v-220v) but makes no reference to the relay. And like the magnetic starter, if the switch looses power, the contacts open and the motor will not automatically restart when the power is restored. And it is like $15.00 if I recall correctly.
Another use for Motor Starter Type Switching is to protect Electronics. It shuts off the Ckt at the Hint of brown outs or Flickering Power, Like Auto reset Power line breakers and they Stay off till You deem it safe to turn them back on. I have made a few with just an Ice Cube Continuous Duty 10 Amp relay, Nc & No buttons. Then I plug a UPS into those if Needed.
Very nice, Keith, but typically 14:00 start is NO and stop is NC 😉 Which you stated correctly at 14:12 Folks should keep in mind pressing the stop button interrupts the circuit, just like the overload does. And, and, you can have multiple stop switches wired in series with that one stop switch. Multiple stop switches are handy on a large machine if the operator may step away from the main control area (hint 😉)
One of my mills has ancient DC motor controlled by a 1945 SquareD starter. It controls the startup inrush current via a dashpot and three resistor banks. It had been miss-wired and one of the internal straps was missing. If the schematic and care instructions weren't on the inside of the cover, I would have been out of luck. It works correctly now.
Dear Sir, Thank you very much for your time and you help me how to connect the motor. Can you explain how to connect booster switch to solar hot water heater system?
Even the way Keith draws the electrical diagrams is vintage. We haven’t used those little half circle bridges where wires intersect for 40 years. Since then the wires just cross each other, and when they connect, there’s a dot where the wires are crossing, to designate that they’re connected. Sometimes that aux switch that’s normally off, is used for a brake.
You can add normally open auxiliary contact blocks to the Allen Bradley or the Square D motor starter as to do the same thing as the American Rotary starter, the only issue with those smaller starters is the longevity of them. As a electrician for 40 plus years, to me nothing beats the old school AB 505 motor starter like you had there, they are bulletproof and will last a lifetime, I have seen way too many of those newer starters fail in the last few years.
Not included or necessarily relevant in Keith's case, but starting capacitors are also worthy of analyzing, but googling that will produce a number of good tutorials.
There is one important aspect of using a starter that wasn’t mentioned: current. The motor needs LOTS of it, and contacts in the starter are huge so they can handle it. The coil that’s turned on and off by the remote switch is very low power, and the remote switch can have small, convenient contacts. It’s a very small power controlling a very large power. If you wanted to use a switch directly on the motor, it would have to be huge.
Keith, I may have missed it, but in your explanation, I didn't hear you mention that the remote start/stop switch can be utilized with a "pilot" voltage, entirely different from the starter internal line voltage, and, in fact, that is most often the case. Regardless of the size of the starter (which is sized so that the contacts can handle the full line voltage), the holding coil can be replaced, allowing the use of a 120/3/60, external "pilot" circuit to energize. Why would you do that? Usually, it's to save money on wiring to the on/off switch, and the added additional safety of a lower voltage circuit. In my professional life as an industrial air compressor sales engineer, I sold literally hundreds of air compressors in the 5HP to 25HP range, and I'd estimate that 75% of them used 120v control voltage if the line voltage was anything other than 120/1/60.
Are these motor switches for single phase, or 3 phase ? I have a dust collector that has a similar switch, but it's for 240v single phase. I haven't hooked power to it yet because I wasn't sure how to wire it.
Thankfully Keith qualified his motor starter tutorial by admitting that he is not an electrician. I quit counting the errors that he stated and demonstrated, because I quickly ran out of fingers! On the otherhand, if you can cypher through the misuse of terminology, electrical physics and misunderstanding of overload and over current his explanation is acceptable. Follow his electrical drawings and be less generous in accepting all of his descriptive dialog. He has the functinal gyst for the novice, but he included a lot of misinformation. Keith is obviously very accomplished. He regularly tackles work that I don't try. Kudos to Keith for getting it done, but I think that he should let this topic be handled by others that won't convey so much misinformation.
So are these what helps to not overload your grid when starting a 3 phase motor? As 3 phase motors don't have condensers like split phase does to help start them,?
I believe they also save or limit the need for heavy cable to a switch and preventing all three Lines having to go to an on/off switch. High voltage is more dangerous no question so this starter idea only uses one L vs. 3. I think its mostly about electricity safety and user safety plus the magnetic starter fully engages the circuit efficiently vs. a manual switch could engage the circuit slowly causing arcing and heat depending on the operator working the switch. These typically get invented due to hazard and safety concerns over the years.
Something that may be outside the scope of this tutorial is that you can have different voltage coils, 240V, 120V or even 24V low voltage. Your illustration is for a 240V coil but the wiring will be different for other voltages.
I've seen modern power installations use 24v as a control voltage for switchgear. It would be simple if a 1:10 transformer could be used if the relay coil is AC.
@@ianhelsbyservices I wired up a motor using 24V relay coils and I just added another relay to get around the coil load voltage mismatch. It was what I had to work with. I wasn't about to go out and buy something else either. Not when I had a whole box of relays just begging to get used for something. I looked for the circuit online and couldn't find one. So I just figured it out for myself. I thought at the outset that doing what I wanted to do would be commonplace. Seemed like it'd be a common problem. The circuit here is great if you have the right contactor.
Keith I need to wire in a remote start/stop on a 110v single phase motor starter. Would the wiring be any different? Your schematic confuses me as being single phase, I have no connections at L2
Usually L1 L2 L 3 has 130 volts going thru them coils usually only need 24 volts and push buttons so wouldn't hooking the switch to L1 be to much or the auxiliary contact
Lots of reasons, but one important one is that if power is lost, with these, the machine won't just come back on (possibly unattended) when the power comes back on. It defaults to being off and only routes power to the machine when the On switch is momentarily being pressed.
I found this video just as I was working at my lathe ( three phase power). You helped me understand how to fix my lathe. Thank You, Ric
Good job of explaining mag starters. You are so right - understanding the principles behind starters are a powerful tool to have.
I’m an industrial tech apprentice going through schooling, and I understood this explanation a lot better. Awesome job thank you!
Excellent video 😊
When in doubt, draw it out 🤓
Well explained I have been an electrician for 50 years , that explains things very succinctly.
Keith at 22:24 you say that the switch (2-3) on the motor starter is Normally Closed, that should be Normally Open. The Blue - Black wire on the motor starter are only connected when the coil is energized.
Great diagrams, and good explanation. I had never looking into a motor starter before. It is really a latching relay with thermal overload protection. Understanding how it works is the way to go.
Good Job !
Both the IEC (your "new style") and NEMA (your "old style") starters have extra Aux contact for alarming, signaling, or whatever you need for your control. In the heavy duty industrial applications I was involved with, we used NEMA due to them being oversized and their ability to withstand multiple overload conditions without damage.
Thank you for keeping it simple! I can finally wrap my head around this concept now. This is great for visual people like me....and thanks for the drawings with different states of the circuit. Super helpful.
Thanks for taking the time to explain this I know you need them on a big motor but I never understood how to wire them or how they worked. Thanks again...
Nicely done Keith. Having worked in a shop before I wired up a few machines with the electricians. This was when I was about 18~19, so I was just learning stuff. You did a much better job of explaining it than they did. They were more "yea, just wire it like this". I was "WHY!?!", they were "Because it will work this way". I kind of wondered if they actually knew...LOL
Truly sounds like majority of electricians unfortunately.
@@sixonegfour2719 honestly? I was 18. How much did I know then. My uncle was a master electrician and taught me a few things. I know enough to know when I need help that's for sure. I also have a brother in law who is a master electrician, so I got that going for me. Lol
excellent video and exactly what I needed thank you so very much... but sadly I have adult severe ADHD and I'm going to have to watch the video 50 times to completely get it
Thank goodness for instructions that come with switches. I do this type of thing so infrequently I have to relearn it each time. Thanks for the video.
I've got an old HUGE (200LB) Baldor Bench Grinder at a factory maint. shop auction that had the push button start/stop but was removed by an idiot. I had the bits n pieces but could never figure out the wiring! THIS VIDEO WILL HELP GET IT UP AND RUNNING FINALLY!!!!!
The schematics for this circuit are all over the net. But try to find schematics for a latching circuit where the coil and load voltage are different. The only one of those you'll find is the one I posted. Because I looked for one. For like 3 days. Then I gave up and just made my own. Which I then decided to post for the next poor fool that might need it.
My god man....your workshop looks absolutely fantastic. 👀👀
Awesome great way to start my morning . Thank you Keith for the wonderful videos explaining how to do things !
Keith, thanks for a great explanation of how all this stuff works. I agree that it's really important for those of us "playing" with older machines to understand how things work and not just try to get by with "connect terminal a to terminal b, then c to d" style of working. When you understand how it all works, you can confirm for yourself what will happen when the power goes out or there is an overload. If you don't understand how something works you really don't know if it's safe (electrical or otherwise). This is not easy to explain and I think you did a great job. BTW, for those accomplishing the same task with a VFD, things are done a little differently, but all the same safety considerations need to be taken into account.
Up to my ears in that myself. I’m learning more about phase converters and motor starters than I ever wanted to know.
However, it’s absolutely essential.
Thanks,
John
If you only want to know the wiring diagram, this ain’t the channel for you. Mr. Rucker is an educator and an entertainer who provides the interested parties a platform for both. Love your work, Mr. Rucker.
Great video
I setup my air compressor roughly that way. No overload.
Put a 3 phase (it's what I had on hand. Didn't need to be a 3 phase switch) magnetic switch in the 1 phase 220v line. To activate the switch I use a 110 wifi smart switch. Didn't want the compressor to have power on it when I wasn't home and manually tripping the breaker is impractical. So I walk in the shop and tell "Google to turn on compressor". Smart switch closes its contact witch sends 110v to the bigger switch with the 220v line and closes that contacts witch makes the compressor work normal as if it had power all the time. Saves money and I don't have to worry about the compressor contacts sticking closed with out me there. It has happened before..
I thought you said you were not an electrician. That was a good explanation. I am now working on an old industrial oven control that I plan to use for a foundry furnace. Circulator and exhaust fan, air flow switches, purge timer, flame sensor, pilot light, ignition and main gas. Lots of interlocks, timers and motor starters.
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. i really appreciate the side by side demonstration. I never really understood the overload relays and how they tied into the control circuits. Great down to earth explanation of it all.
Great video Keith! You've demystified motor starters and stop-start pushbuttons for me!
Great video simplified for beginners in control power. Thank you
Great explanation, my starter switch has failed on my Boxford lathe, so your explanation has helped me understand, which new switch to buy 👍
In the video at 5:27 when you are explaining how the motor starter works you said that normally the circuit is closed actually the circuit is normally open until the coil is energized. Great video though keep up the good work !
It probably should have been mentioned that there are different sizes of starters for different sizes of motors. One of yours was marked "Size 0" which is rated for up to 3 HP when operated at 230V (or 5HP at 460V). There is a smaller size, Size 00, good for up to 1.5HP at 230V as well as larger sizes up to Size 6 for a 200HP motor at 230V. You can find sizing charts online.
Good explanation! One comment regarding the "protector"... A 3 phase motor will burn up if it looses any ONE of the three phases. (The other 2 wires draw massive current) Hence, the motor-protector is intended to trip when a single phase is lost. (again...because the other 2 phases will draw excessive current)
Yes, that's the main reason i always use those (in Europe almost all industrial motors are 3 phase because of the 380/400V system, in most countries here, with one or two exeptions, like Norway, it is super expensive to use high current, but one allredy hawe "free" extra volts in the domestic lines in many countries (except for coutries that are for some reson using divided phase systems for the domestic lines, like Holland)), another thing in Europe is that many people does not seem to know about how important it is to newer ever run a 3 phase motor with Y-D connection in Y (star) moder for longer periods under load since that will also result in the coils runs extremly hot (unless the motor is especialy built to be run that way). Most old industrial systems here are using manual Y-D switching, but the modern systems are using automatic switching.
(I think You will hawe 220V in America with the centerzero system, wich is the old domestic standard (outside the UK 240V centerfuse system) for countries wich are using the regular 3 phase 280V phase system. (today it is for some reason 230 and 400V after the EU standard))
That was a great explanation of the motor starter. Sure wish this was on RUclips 5 years ago when I converted my 10EE to modern electronics. Thanks!
That was a good explanation of a contactor circuit with overload protection. One option that I have encountered on our heavy duty 480 volt pressure washers at work, is a rotary on/off switch in lieu of push buttons which I do not care for. Our equipment has a time delay in the lock circuit that won't operate unless there is water pressure present at the pump. It's just a more complicated circuit. There's a good possibility that the machine could be turned on when a power disruption is resolved.
I hope in your next installment on this machine that when you begin to discuss wiring it up that you can discuss horsepower amperage draw in relation to wire gauge, and phase rotation, which can be changed from changing any two legs of the 3 phase motor in one of 4 places. It can be done on L1, 2, 3, on the contactor or on t1, 2, 3 of the same. It can be done on the electrical breakers, or in the event of a plug, it could also be done at this point.
Again, thanks for the well thought out discussion on this safety feature.
On further point I would suggest is that if/when this shaper is plugged in, that the breaker or disconnect box be turned off before plugging it in as high voltage does have a risk of arcing when plugging in, even with a contactor deactivated.
The company that we contract with has made this a work rule.
The great thing about this channel is that I can understand every word he is saying unlike the Indian dialect videos. I am not saying the indian videos are not correct and I am not taking away from the work put forth in those videos. I just like a video that I can understand with proper english without the accent.
Our 3 phase reticulation pump was manually started and stopped. Occasionally the protection circuits in the switch used to burn out, so our electrician connected 95 to A1 (same as on your diagram), protecting the protection device. Following this, the motor burned out a couple of times. Further investigation revealed that one of the phases had an intermittent poor connection. We learned that an important function of the protection circuit is to cut power on all phases if the current on one phase reduces or stops.
Serendipitously I discovered that by dragging the video slider back and forth you can animate Keith's switch drawings like a flip sheet. Some of the positions are a little obstructed but done on purpose I think this phenomenon could be used to great affect in future videos.
Motors need to be “over fused” because they take large amounts of current to start, but they also need to be protected from long term overload during use. The “heater” over current device builds slowly (relatively) and accepts the high inrush of current during starting from a stoped rotor but will trip if a motor is drawing much lower current (relative to the brief starting current) that is higher than its rating.
AND: series all your STOP buttons, and parallel all your START buttons if you have more than one start/stop station.
I wish this had existed a couple years ago when I was figuring this out the hard way. Thanks Keith!
Thanks for sharing this Keith. Very well explained and simplified
You are such a great lecturer sir excellent explanation and spectaculous voice I have really enjoyed your lesson.
Well done Keith, thanks for taking the time so it could sink in.
Thank you for putting this out. It is exactly the information i am looking for!
Wow - difficult thing to explain, always been a bit of a black box to me, but now I get it. Thank you!
If one opts to use a static phase converter, make sure you read/understand the instructions!
I was able to get a used Ronk static converter at a really good price. One thing the paperwork emphasizes is that nothing except the motor itself gets connected to the created/generated leg. I had to trace out, and sometimes move, wiring on my controls and relays, in order to use the converter on my surface grinder.
Another item is that the converter must be tuned to the machine, or you risk overheating and damaging your motor.
If you can't get, follow, understand the instructions to your particular converter ... get help! Statics are not "plug and play." Especially on a machine that was previously used in a shop that had commercial 3 phase power.
For reference. This is called a "3-wire start/stop" and the type of circuit is called a latching circuit. Very well explained Keith!
Yes. Latching. Without that explanation, it makes no sense. A mechanical “latch” that holds the circuit closed.
@@melgross if you think there is a mechanical latch then you did not get it. What latches this circuit is how it is wired. The start button energizes the coil and pulls the relay on. Once it is on switched power from the load side keeps the coil on. Then what you do with the start button does not matter. But when you hit stop that cuts power to the coil which opens the relay. Cutting power to the whole circuit turns it off too. And when it gets powered back up it will be in the off state. There's no mechanical latch whatsoever. That would defeat the purpose of this circuit. Well, one purpose. The other purpose is to make it easier to put on and off switches where they can be used.
@@1pcfred there are numerous ways to do this. I’ve designed a few myself. Sure, there are electrical and mechanical latching relays.
@@melgross you are not going to find mechanical latching relays in this application. Unless you buy your gear off sadists.
@@1pcfred So if you only want a momentary on, you would disconnect the power lead from the load side to the coil? I wish he had explained how to install a momentary switch,such as a foot switch. Better yet, a way to have a momentary (bump) switch and a latching switch.
Excellent video Keith.
Great instruction. I'm glad you got around to the safety stop button at the end. With that machine are you contemplating using a safety stop? I spent nearly fifty years in a production environment where the Safety Stops were mandatory and not mandatory.
I know you are not in a production envoronment with many people around at once, however please take the safety stop into consideration. If you are going to station the operator at the start stop switch, then it becomes somewat safer, however if the operation requires moving around the machine, mulitple safety stop buttons could save someone (especially you) from serious consequences.
Those Safety stops are cheap insurance against serious injury or worse. In addition there may be some liability issues when you host one of your many gettogethers'.
Just a friendly note from an old Safety Manager.
Not being in a production environment makes safety stops even more essential as there would be no one there to help in an emergency.
With all those belts and cog wheels on the the planer I can see lots of pinch points to grab overalls, so emergency stop buttons within easy reach on all sides of the machine should be an essential safety feature. And considering the table moving backwards and forwards as well, I think a "Rope Pull Safety Switch" emergency system running all the way around the unit would a useful option. These are not expensive items and installation of such would make a very interesting additional video
Very well done. I teach this at a votech and I may use this in my class thank you
An interesting aside, for fractional or small HP motors, Shop Fox makes a paddle type on off switch that has a coil and contacts in it and functions like a magnetic starter but without the overload protection. Grizzly sells this switch in both a 120v and 240v version (110v-220v) but makes no reference to the relay.
And like the magnetic starter, if the switch looses power, the contacts open and the motor will not automatically restart when the power is restored. And it is like $15.00 if I recall correctly.
Guessing we will be seeing a video on the metal planer motor starter soon 😊
That was great. Very informative and useful! Thanks, Keith.
Excellent video....clear explanations of the circuits.
Thanks, Keith. I'm restoring a DeWalt GE and this helps.
Great job Mr. Rucker!
Another use for Motor Starter Type Switching is to protect Electronics. It shuts off the Ckt at the Hint of brown outs or Flickering Power, Like Auto reset Power line breakers and they Stay off till You deem it safe to turn them back on.
I have made a few with just an Ice Cube Continuous Duty 10 Amp relay, Nc & No buttons.
Then I plug a UPS into those if Needed.
thanks keith, it's a tricky concept and that video is going to help a lot of us.
Keith this was a great video. You explained everything very well. Do you have any videos on wiring up and changing voltages on a transformer.
Love that"I'm not electrician but I learned how to deal with"😊😊😊
Very nice, Keith, but typically 14:00 start is NO and stop is NC 😉 Which you stated correctly at 14:12
Folks should keep in mind pressing the stop button interrupts the circuit, just like the overload does. And, and, you can have multiple stop switches wired in series with that one stop switch. Multiple stop switches are handy on a large machine if the operator may step away from the main control area (hint 😉)
One of my mills has ancient DC motor controlled by a 1945 SquareD starter. It controls the startup inrush current via a dashpot and three resistor banks. It had been miss-wired and one of the internal straps was missing. If the schematic and care instructions weren't on the inside of the cover, I would have been out of luck. It works correctly now.
Very Well explained
Dear Sir,
Thank you very much for your time and you help me how to connect the motor.
Can you explain how to connect booster switch to solar hot water heater system?
Great job Keith, useful video
Thanks Keith answered alot of questions.
Always love your videos Keith
Even the way Keith draws the electrical diagrams is vintage. We haven’t used those little half circle bridges where wires intersect for 40 years. Since then the wires just cross each other, and when they connect, there’s a dot where the wires are crossing, to designate that they’re connected.
Sometimes that aux switch that’s normally off, is used for a brake.
Great job Keith.
You can add normally open auxiliary contact blocks to the Allen Bradley or the Square D motor starter as to do the same thing as the American Rotary starter, the only issue with those smaller starters is the longevity of them. As a electrician for 40 plus years, to me nothing beats the old school AB 505 motor starter like you had there, they are bulletproof and will last a lifetime, I have seen way too many of those newer starters fail in the last few years.
Not included or necessarily relevant in Keith's case, but starting capacitors are also worthy of analyzing, but googling that will produce a number of good tutorials.
Sure would have been nice to see that square d switch hooked up also though, since that's the one I have, but great video...
There is one important aspect of using a starter that wasn’t mentioned: current. The motor needs LOTS of it, and contacts in the starter are huge so they can handle it. The coil that’s turned on and off by the remote switch is very low power, and the remote switch can have small, convenient contacts. It’s a very small power controlling a very large power. If you wanted to use a switch directly on the motor, it would have to be huge.
He very clearly spoke about amperage (current).
Thank you for sharing. Enjoyed.
Most excellent bit of information.
Great job Keith 👏 👍
Thank so much for good explanation
Thank you. informative video *Thumbs up
I liked the way you teach
Great video. Thank you
Great explanation!
Don't forget kieth .coils have different voltage ratings .and contactors have different current ratings .👍👍
Keith, I may have missed it, but in your explanation, I didn't hear you mention that the remote start/stop switch can be utilized with a "pilot" voltage, entirely different from the starter internal line voltage, and, in fact, that is most often the case. Regardless of the size of the starter (which is sized so that the contacts can handle the full line voltage), the holding coil can be replaced, allowing the use of a 120/3/60, external "pilot" circuit to energize. Why would you do that? Usually, it's to save money on wiring to the on/off switch, and the added additional safety of a lower voltage circuit. In my professional life as an industrial air compressor sales engineer, I sold literally hundreds of air compressors in the 5HP to 25HP range, and I'd estimate that 75% of them used 120v control voltage if the line voltage was anything other than 120/1/60.
Great job
Are these motor switches for single phase, or 3 phase ? I have a dust collector that has a similar switch, but it's for 240v single phase. I haven't hooked power to it yet because I wasn't sure how to wire it.
great job explaining it
Thankfully Keith qualified his motor starter tutorial by admitting that he is not an electrician.
I quit counting the errors that he stated and demonstrated, because I quickly ran out of fingers!
On the otherhand, if you can cypher through the misuse of terminology, electrical physics and misunderstanding of overload and over current his explanation is acceptable. Follow his electrical drawings and be less generous in accepting all of his descriptive dialog. He has the functinal gyst for the novice, but he included a lot of misinformation.
Keith is obviously very accomplished. He regularly tackles work that I don't try. Kudos to Keith for getting it done, but I think that he should let this topic be handled by others that won't convey so much misinformation.
Good morning Keith
Great tutorial! Thank you.
So are these what helps to not overload your grid when starting a 3 phase motor? As 3 phase motors don't have condensers like split phase does to help start them,?
Thank you for video.
Thank you!
I believe they also save or limit the need for heavy cable to a switch and preventing all three Lines having to go to an on/off switch. High voltage is more dangerous no question so this starter idea only uses one L vs. 3. I think its mostly about electricity safety and user safety plus the magnetic starter fully engages the circuit efficiently vs. a manual switch could engage the circuit slowly causing arcing and heat depending on the operator working the switch. These typically get invented due to hazard and safety concerns over the years.
Great info thank you.
Good video
Excellent ❤❤
Something that may be outside the scope of this tutorial is that you can have different voltage coils, 240V, 120V or even 24V low voltage. Your illustration is for a 240V coil but the wiring will be different for other voltages.
I've seen modern power installations use 24v as a control voltage for switchgear. It would be simple if a 1:10 transformer could be used if the relay coil is AC.
@@ianhelsbyservices I wired up a motor using 24V relay coils and I just added another relay to get around the coil load voltage mismatch. It was what I had to work with. I wasn't about to go out and buy something else either. Not when I had a whole box of relays just begging to get used for something. I looked for the circuit online and couldn't find one. So I just figured it out for myself. I thought at the outset that doing what I wanted to do would be commonplace. Seemed like it'd be a common problem. The circuit here is great if you have the right contactor.
I just wonder how many tradesmen were sacrificed before motor starters became the norm. Well explained Keith. Regards
Keith
I need to wire in a remote start/stop on a 110v single phase motor starter. Would the wiring be any different? Your schematic confuses me as being single phase, I have no connections at L2
I have a Allen Bradley, the one on the left. The trip button went reset. Can I take this apart and fix it?
Usually L1 L2 L 3 has 130 volts going thru them coils usually only need 24 volts and push buttons so wouldn't hooking the switch to L1 be to much or the auxiliary contact
Thanks Keith.
Ok, I get it now. If we see the back of Keith's hand, the circuit is energized.
I never thought about these switches. Great video. Question: why don’t they use a simple on/off light switch?
Lots of reasons, but one important one is that if power is lost, with these, the machine won't just come back on (possibly unattended) when the power comes back on. It defaults to being off and only routes power to the machine when the On switch is momentarily being pressed.
How new is the new mechanism? I have the new one on my 20yo Grizzly table saw.
Thanks. While I've followed directions, I really didn't visualize what was happening.