I think the thing with advising new players to full clear is that it's a lot more consistent. First, you get really good at full clearing quickly, which already puts you massively ahead of the average jungler. Then, you get good at full clearing quickly while watching lanes. Then, you learn to predict where lanes are going to go several seconds in advance. At this point you can and should start looking for early plays If you just go straight to perma ganking without learning steps 1-3, you'll have a miserable time and won't even understand why - I think you have a lot of skills you take for granted, that we lower elo junglers don't have, that allow you to have this playstyle. The "stick to full clearing" advice is a solid way to build these skills
I've been playing League for a few years now and I can say a few things about it. I think one of the things that needs to be highlighted in any conversation about how to play the game is Riot Games' own influence on it. They really hate players coming up with new ways to play the game. Every new "broken" strategy is immediately nerfed. Two examples of what I'm talking about were the strategy of Taric top (or mid) who doesn't farm, leaving the farming to Master Yi, and also that meta (which happened at the 2023 World Championship, if I'm not mistaken) where the ADC and the support initially bought the support item, which made both of them earn more gold at the beginning of the game. Not to mention Thebausff's law, which made Riot change the bounty system and death timers recently. I truly believe that Riot is afraid that these strategies will become the only way to play and that this will have a direct impact on the higher elo players and their satisfaction with the game and, consequently, the meta adopted in competitive play. That said, since only they have control over the way League is played, they create a certain rotation, removing and replacing items and runes, strengthening some classes each season, and of course, also changing how rewarding it is to farm the jungle or gank. This makes players always try to find the most effective and rewarding way to climb the elo, which also created this current mentality of doing full clear and only then ganking. And this creates problems in two specific places: very high elo and very low elo. In high elo, it is exactly for the reasons you mentioned in the video: it makes you predictable because you always play against a select group of people and they learn your habits. And in low elo this also creates a problem (although much smaller), because many of us watch videos of high elo players or tutorials from learning channels where these "ideal concepts" are passed on to us. And the problem is that the game in low elo is definitely different. The laners (and also the junglers) farm little and fight a lot, and often, the lane that is constantly pressured by the jungler's presence simply wins by tilting the opponents and not by any real advantage. In high elo, in skill matchup lanes, if you gank and make the enemy top laner lose his flash, it could be the end of his lane. In low elo, if you gank and kill the enemy 3 times in a row, your top laner still dies solo and loses all his towers. I think this is why junglers can't get stuck in mindsets and need to be creative and actively think about what to do during the match.
Super interesting commentary! I can really relate to the 2 weaknesses of Nunu you mentioned. Learned a lot from you here, especially to the topic early ganks! Hope i can change my own gameplay a bit.
You kinda opened my eyes, I main supp since forever and don't like the mentality of "main character" in my playstyle. This is very refreshing, I may start learning jungle to be honest
Basically you are on the Active Jungling play style. It's another way to play as jungler but Reactive jungling also has its pros that is why people do it especially someone like Agurin.
Would you skip camps on your first clear if you were playing Evelynn or Udyr without E or like Nocturne? Especially if most of your laners don't have good gank setup.
I agree it's champion dependant. In those examples I wouldn't skip camps, but I do think it's harder to carry games playing those champs and standard compared to playing nunu/skarner and playing to fight the enemy team more.
@@Pentaless-kd4fn Would you say that the Nunu kind of chaos playstyle would be similar with Shaco? Or is Shaco just a completely different game? I'm trying to pick a non farming jungler right now since I spammed Udyr all season.
I kinda agree and disagree with you. 1.I think many jg coaches usually say that you should pay attention to lines while farming and try looking for ocassions, its never like "just farm" unless they are coaching an iron/bronze player 2. being repetive and getting better and doing the same things (whether its farming or spam ganking) makes you pay bigger attention to details while having a better understanding of tempo of the game. Some players like paying more attention to macro, some are better at mechanics, but being able to simplify a game for yourself usually really helps.
Prime example on this case is Agurin. Look at him dominate EUW, simply by full clearing and patiently wait enemy jungle to reveal their position or make some mistake on the map. He then capitalise on the information and destroy the opposing jungler. This is what known as reactive jungling. Of course he's not full clearing on auto pilot, he analyses the lane states and decides his full clear path or to stop clearing.
winning mid by forcing a flash and a recall must be some high elo shit. that means almost nothing in silver unless your mid laner actually understands wave state, warding, over extending, and tempo.
I think dragons more important at least for me early game grubs is nice the problem is lanes have trouble using the buff unless they are ahead for me I find the stats given to the team by dragon just impact the game harder early on especially I like to trade both grubs for first 2 drags if I can we usually have advantage in the team fight we win that then we damage towers for ree anyways. I usually only go for grubs if drag is down and both mid and top have prio otherwise I feel it's too coinflippy and just keep it warded. Just my opinion I trade rift herald too then you're just looking for soul and if it's infernal it's basically gg. Like your video.
The dragons do give some nice stats and some dragons are better than others. But in almost all my games I don't actually notice the buffs the dragons give me unless its soul.
Imo you should always gank if you see a pretty high probability gank. The only times where I wouldn't are if your comp is literally better mid to late then you can justify power farming because even if your team lose lanes a little you'll be able to carry most of the times. Or If showing on the map to gank might lose your opposite site of camps or make you low enough to get invaded. I'm playing in plat and powerfarming isn't it because your team just ints if left unchecked and you cant carry shit. The only way I can win is if I gank a lot even on farming champs like viego otherwise they're just too weak and I can never play the game and at best go 1 for 1.
Imo losing 1 camp to an invade is fine, but losing 2 camps is pretty bad. You don't have to gank to kill all the time, you can gank to burn conditions like hp/flash to set up a repeat gank to get you ahead.
People thinking ur a cheese player for ganking on nunu are just stupid ngtl. It’s just the optimal play for nunu. I think having different play styles and win cons for different champions is very healthy for the game as every champion just full clearing would be so boring. Keep it up boss
all this talking just to say that when you drop camps of your clear you fk up ur tempo and you can gain your tempo back by enemy jungle fking up or your teamates that you got ahead
keep in mind this only applies to the very top of the ladder, so for 99.9% of the lol community this is horrible advice and will get people stuck in low elo forever
Don't think it's true this only applies to lower elos. I've done this even when I was stuck in gold/Plat, and whenever I'm smurfing I use the same playstyle as well.
Playing nunu completly ruins the whole point. Ofc u dont full clear with nunu ?? its more fun to play for early ganks but alot of champs are just not good at it unlike nunu.
I think the thing with advising new players to full clear is that it's a lot more consistent. First, you get really good at full clearing quickly, which already puts you massively ahead of the average jungler. Then, you get good at full clearing quickly while watching lanes. Then, you learn to predict where lanes are going to go several seconds in advance. At this point you can and should start looking for early plays
If you just go straight to perma ganking without learning steps 1-3, you'll have a miserable time and won't even understand why - I think you have a lot of skills you take for granted, that we lower elo junglers don't have, that allow you to have this playstyle. The "stick to full clearing" advice is a solid way to build these skills
I've been playing League for a few years now and I can say a few things about it.
I think one of the things that needs to be highlighted in any conversation about how to play the game is Riot Games' own influence on it. They really hate players coming up with new ways to play the game. Every new "broken" strategy is immediately nerfed. Two examples of what I'm talking about were the strategy of Taric top (or mid) who doesn't farm, leaving the farming to Master Yi, and also that meta (which happened at the 2023 World Championship, if I'm not mistaken) where the ADC and the support initially bought the support item, which made both of them earn more gold at the beginning of the game. Not to mention Thebausff's law, which made Riot change the bounty system and death timers recently.
I truly believe that Riot is afraid that these strategies will become the only way to play and that this will have a direct impact on the higher elo players and their satisfaction with the game and, consequently, the meta adopted in competitive play.
That said, since only they have control over the way League is played, they create a certain rotation, removing and replacing items and runes, strengthening some classes each season, and of course, also changing how rewarding it is to farm the jungle or gank. This makes players always try to find the most effective and rewarding way to climb the elo, which also created this current mentality of doing full clear and only then ganking.
And this creates problems in two specific places: very high elo and very low elo. In high elo, it is exactly for the reasons you mentioned in the video: it makes you predictable because you always play against a select group of people and they learn your habits.
And in low elo this also creates a problem (although much smaller), because many of us watch videos of high elo players or tutorials from learning channels where these "ideal concepts" are passed on to us.
And the problem is that the game in low elo is definitely different. The laners (and also the junglers) farm little and fight a lot, and often, the lane that is constantly pressured by the jungler's presence simply wins by tilting the opponents and not by any real advantage. In high elo, in skill matchup lanes, if you gank and make the enemy top laner lose his flash, it could be the end of his lane. In low elo, if you gank and kill the enemy 3 times in a row, your top laner still dies solo and loses all his towers.
I think this is why junglers can't get stuck in mindsets and need to be creative and actively think about what to do during the match.
the random remains silent while the king is fullclearing
Super interesting commentary! I can really relate to the 2 weaknesses of Nunu you mentioned. Learned a lot from you here, especially to the topic early ganks! Hope i can change my own gameplay a bit.
glad youre making more of these.
super comfy for some reason lol
You kinda opened my eyes, I main supp since forever and don't like the mentality of "main character" in my playstyle. This is very refreshing, I may start learning jungle to be honest
Basically you are on the Active Jungling play style. It's another way to play as jungler but Reactive jungling also has its pros that is why people do it especially someone like Agurin.
How do you get the timers on the jungle camps?
Blitz app
Thank you. That was an entertaining and educational watch. Can I do this on Master Yi?
I think you can do something similar with master yi, except master yi is better at invading rather than ganking early.
Really nice commentary. More of those pls :)
Maybe in 1080p next time tho :P
Would you skip camps on your first clear if you were playing Evelynn or Udyr without E or like Nocturne? Especially if most of your laners don't have good gank setup.
I agree it's champion dependant. In those examples I wouldn't skip camps, but I do think it's harder to carry games playing those champs and standard compared to playing nunu/skarner and playing to fight the enemy team more.
@@Pentaless-kd4fn Would you say that the Nunu kind of chaos playstyle would be similar with Shaco? Or is Shaco just a completely different game? I'm trying to pick a non farming jungler right now since I spammed Udyr all season.
in low elo the best way to lose LP is to play for your teammates
Try playing for your splitpusher (trundle, trynd, mundo, etc.) they are strong even if they int early game. Imagine what they do if they are ahead.
@@bilyscr1 if there is a split pusher I'll play for it. In general, low elo just wants to aram
Awesome content! It's really interesting to hear about the thought processes of super high rank players :D
I kinda agree and disagree with you.
1.I think many jg coaches usually say that you should pay attention to lines while farming and try looking for ocassions, its never like "just farm" unless they are coaching an iron/bronze player
2. being repetive and getting better and doing the same things (whether its farming or spam ganking) makes you pay bigger attention to details while having a better understanding of tempo of the game. Some players like paying more attention to macro, some are better at mechanics, but being able to simplify a game for yourself usually really helps.
Prime example on this case is Agurin. Look at him dominate EUW, simply by full clearing and patiently wait enemy jungle to reveal their position or make some mistake on the map. He then capitalise on the information and destroy the opposing jungler. This is what known as reactive jungling. Of course he's not full clearing on auto pilot, he analyses the lane states and decides his full clear path or to stop clearing.
winning mid by forcing a flash and a recall must be some high elo shit. that means almost nothing in silver unless your mid laner actually understands wave state, warding, over extending, and tempo.
Even if your laner doesnt capitalize on it, you can regank the ahri before 6 easily for a kill.
@Pentaless-kd4fn in a perfect world.
Genuinly confused how you have so little views. I feel like much of what you said has already been so helpful to me...
i love this it is so fun to watch non standard junglers :D
I think dragons more important at least for me early game grubs is nice the problem is lanes have trouble using the buff unless they are ahead for me I find the stats given to the team by dragon just impact the game harder early on especially I like to trade both grubs for first 2 drags if I can we usually have advantage in the team fight we win that then we damage towers for ree anyways.
I usually only go for grubs if drag is down and both mid and top have prio otherwise I feel it's too coinflippy and just keep it warded.
Just my opinion I trade rift herald too then you're just looking for soul and if it's infernal it's basically gg.
Like your video.
The dragons do give some nice stats and some dragons are better than others. But in almost all my games I don't actually notice the buffs the dragons give me unless its soul.
Nunu is clearing jungle like crazy, never played him, was afraid I would fail W a lot. :D But seems sooo good with objectives also, Q is so strong.
Do you think Nunu can carry lower elos instead?
I've played nunu from gold to challenger so I think he can carry in lower elos.
@@Pentaless-kd4fnoh do you recommend a different build for lower elo? Thanks
Imo you should always gank if you see a pretty high probability gank. The only times where I wouldn't are if your comp is literally better mid to late then you can justify power farming because even if your team lose lanes a little you'll be able to carry most of the times.
Or
If showing on the map to gank might lose your opposite site of camps or make you low enough to get invaded. I'm playing in plat and powerfarming isn't it because your team just ints if left unchecked and you cant carry shit. The only way I can win is if I gank a lot even on farming champs like viego otherwise they're just too weak and I can never play the game and at best go 1 for 1.
Imo losing 1 camp to an invade is fine, but losing 2 camps is pretty bad. You don't have to gank to kill all the time, you can gank to burn conditions like hp/flash to set up a repeat gank to get you ahead.
... and of course you choose to prove your point on Nunu the most early game, gank reliant jungler in the champ pool
yo what rank is this?
Challenger/GM
u can see it 1 second into the video...
@@nexus9632 im not very bright
People thinking ur a cheese player for ganking on nunu are just stupid ngtl. It’s just the optimal play for nunu.
I think having different play styles and win cons for different champions is very healthy for the game as every champion just full clearing would be so boring.
Keep it up boss
Yeah and its literally the only thing nunu can do for his team early game. Everybody knows it and when they get caught its theyr own mistake.
all this talking just to say that when you drop camps of your clear you fk up ur tempo and you can gain your tempo back by enemy jungle fking up or your teamates that you got ahead
keep in mind this only applies to the very top of the ladder, so for 99.9% of the lol community this is horrible advice and will get people stuck in low elo forever
Don't think it's true this only applies to lower elos. I've done this even when I was stuck in gold/Plat, and whenever I'm smurfing I use the same playstyle as well.
Playing nunu completly ruins the whole point. Ofc u dont full clear with nunu ?? its more fun to play for early ganks but alot of champs are just not good at it unlike nunu.