Fixing a Worn Set of Rerailing Frogs - Train Derailment Cleanup Tool Rebuilt - Welding Repair
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- Опубликовано: 12 май 2023
- These rerailing frogs have cleaned up a lot of derailments since I got them, and they were worn out then. The last time I used them, it was apparent something needed to be done. Instead of spending thousands of dollars on a new set, I figured I could rebuild them.
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*** Here is a link to a video of a similar frog in use. ruclips.net/user/shortsb1Tmh6jHxy0?feature=share I hope this helps! ***
I didn't know such a tool existed! Up until now I thought the railroad used cranes to lift the cars back onto the tracks. Very cool...
It's nice to hear that the apprentice is doing well. Give him an encouraging tap on the sholder from us.
YIKES, you are a real speed daemon with that chain hoist!! Oh, wait, you sped up the video, my error, grin....
That’s something you rarely see is a welder paying attention to preheat, postheat and interpass temperatures. Metallurgy works.
It's funny how nobody pays attention to that stuff. I didn't do the proper procedure one time and paid for it. Now preheat, interpass temp control, and slow cooling or sometimes post heat.
That’s why we love Topper, no argument one of the best welder/machinists on the platform
Most welders just know how to run beads. They don't have any real technical knowledge. I went to school for welding and welders always ridicule me for it. "You don't learn to weld in school, you learn to weld by doing it. You learn about welding in school. Things like preheat, interpass temperatures and post heat.
If you ever welded for the Navy useing MILSPEC, you better have your tempsticks with you and keep your preheaters on or you could get written up and a whole bunch of white hats clucking around. I’m old school, i would have sick welded it with 8018
That was an interesting repair on some interesting equipment. It would have been nice to have seen this gear in action, but I can understand why you can't film it being used. Thanks for posting the link to the short. It gives us an idea of how it's used.
Hey its good to here you've got yourself an apprentice. You need it. As long as hes willing to learn, not afraid to get dirty and has a good attitude...thats great ! Keep on rockin! Cheers from Canada.
I like how you're casually doing an intro to the project while there's fire on the table behind your head 😁
I worked in an underground coal mine in southwest PA. I have used these many times putting equipment back on track. Retired now, it my back hurts looking at these!
I had no idea a derailment was such a big deal. No wonder videos of re-railing are rare. Thanks for the insight.
Speaking of cool stuff, that was pretty cool
Very interesting. I saw a derailment recovery video on CCRX 6700's channel, he works for a railroad that services coal mines. The rerailing frog in his video looked a lot smaller than yours, it might have just been perspective as they are only shown once in place. But it got pushed along a fair bit before they got it to stick and the wheel successfully mounted the frog and they finally managed to get things back up on the track.
That preheat table is quite the tool. So simple yet effective
Rerailers work a lot better than wedge blocks but you use what you have . Good repair job . Great video .
Most people can’t spell thermodynamics.
I am impressed with your work.
Lol. Yup, and those are the ones not preheating. I watched another RUclipsr weld up a shaft, just glowing before he was done. All I could think was, no f'n way would I let that happen.
Great job. Coming from a railroad family I can understand there are things that you cannot or will not video. Perhaps you could do a drawing on your white board to show how the rerailing frogs are set up and how they work. Regards, Dave
You’re absolutely correct about ice and trains derailing. Back in 1974. During the Winter the Railroad never turned the water hoses off at the locomotive engine house. Well it had snowed out. When I went over this section of rail. Headed for the fuel pad. The Locomotive derailed instantly because of the ice. The Locomotive slid sideways into a drainage ditch. I thought the locomotive was going to turn on its side. Luckily it didn’t. Anyway Penn Central were using EP-22/E-8’s on the NY and Long Branch Railroad from South Amboy NJ to Bay Head NJ. I remember some of the EP-22/E-8’s had two retailers on certain locomotives. They looked similar to the ones you’re repairing. I do remember they looked like they were never used. Excellent job at repairing your retailers.
Winter railroading sucks. I get called frequently to retail cars and engines due to the ice. Sometimes the ice can help too. I've pulled cars back on just following the ice rail.
Thanks for the information at the end of the video Topper. It explains a lot to overseas viewers such as I
Great WPS Josh, so often overlooked.
Thanks for sharing
Great video as always Josh, thank you for uploading! 👍👍
Hey Josh, great video. And I want to say that it is great of you to share your knowledge and bring a young apprentice forward in his career. Cheers.
Thanks for sharing
You seem to understand thermodynamics really good.
I am impressed.
Great video thanks for sharing
Thanks for the video keep on keeping on.
I remember seeing a film about railroads in South America, they were using rocks picked from the hill side to rerail a passenger car, got it done though. The film is probably on RUclips somewhere.
I've used wood blocks, tie plates, chain, wrenches. Whatever you got on hand at the time. Just need to build a ramp.
I only wish we could use rerailing frogs. Embedded track and clearance issues prevent it. We use Hegenscheidt MFD rerailing equipment. And yes, derailments are very stressful and time critical events. The most dangerous thing we do on the railroad. It is very rare we even get still photos, let alone video.
I've been the wreck boss on several derailments over the last 15 years. If someone has time for pictures, they aren't paying attention. I've seen so many close calls from people not paying attention.
You do enough welding that I think you should consider getting a real PAPR welding mask. The ventilated ones are OK, but they really don't compare to the comfort and safety of a PAPR mask.
🤣🤣🤣🤣"Fart Sniffer"!!!! I remembered that one. I do not know that much about welding but I am glad that you do. I thought that your concern over the preheating was great. I did not know that a weld could hold up to so much weight rolling over it. For some reason I thought that you were going to do a post heat but I must of been thinking of another procedure. Great work on the job and on the video. It is good to see you and thanks for the video.
Great Video
Thank you
I'm always impressed with some of the jobs you get in your shop....I had no idea that helping out the railroads was in your wheelhouse as well.
Almost 25 years of railroad work on the side. It had been a great experience, but I don't do much anymore. Feds have gotten out of control.
Very nice
I totally agree with you about derailments. Not a pretty pivture for anyone.
We see a pro repair a rerailment. Greeetings from Germany.
This was a cool project and it it turned out great. Until now I did not know rerailing frogs existed but it makes sense and I guess quicker than bringing a crane in
There are so many ways to rerail equipment without a crane. Just takes creativity and knowledge of moving heavy stuff.
Notice that the rerailers are designed for 70-100 Lb rail as cast into the side of the piece. Are you using them on the appropriate size rail or larger size rail? Retired 51+ year railroader with 10+ years on the ground
Almost all of my customers are in 90lb rail. Some 100, but way more 90lb.
Very damned cool. Yes sir, yuh gotta keep on, keepin’ on!
You want to check that burner! Blue flames are safe, yellow flames mean not enough air is being mixed in, and Carbon Monoxide is being produced.
You obviously didn't watch the entire video. I explained this.
@@TopperMachineLLC I heard you explain the big yellow flames were just for show at the beginning, but even when turned down, they are still yellow, eg ruclips.net/video/ksyC8mNUM-k/видео.html ... did I miss something where you say you are going to fix it?
Sounded like Martha Stuart cooking it sprinkled with chicory root baked at 350 deg.
A side of railways that most people never see! You have taught me something! Thank you! What are they made from! High tensile or cast steel would be my uneducated guess.
I guess that farting is very dangerous while there is an ignition source with the fan close by...it would blast a flame into the helmet 🤣🔥Have a safe week end ....no beans
OH, of course, and now he's got a fancy BBQ... This guy... 🤣🤣🤣
Nice work Josh.
Very interesting weld repair.
Is that a special wire?
Thanks for sharing.
Take care, Ed.
Just ER70S-6
You should use a weldinghelmet with built in fume filter i like speedglas 9100 air with adflow
So you can skip respirator
That's fine and dandy, but I also use the respirator for grinding and other stuff. If I only have the helmet, then every time I pull it off to grind I still have to put on a mask. Doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Also, I can think of way better things to spend a couple grand on.
Could you hard face the inner edge to ensure it didn't wear down as fast the inside face of the unit or would it cause too much wear on the train wheel flanges?
I was afraid hardface would damage the wheel. Considering these frogs are almost 60 years old, id say wear isn't a real issue
Always interesting to see rail hardware. Frog made of cast steel?
Yes. Most everything in the railroad is cast steel. Very little cast iron.
Fart sniffer xl it is indeed i farted behind a coworker when they was wearing one 😂😂😂
is it possible to use some hard facing wire to add a bit of wear protection to the edge?
I'd rather have the frog softer than the wheel. Considering how they are almost 60 years old, I don't think I'll have to rebuild them again.
Preheat table doubles as a grill for hotdogs for lunch
We always called those rerailers " butterfly rerailer"
The other style is the hump or camel-back. I think Aldon made them.
Have seen how it is done in some of the "less advanced" countries, there was a tv travel program where they used a club/lump hammer to run the wheel up.
Now to tell you off😉, as a one time audiology tech may i suggest you use hearing protection to match your eye and lung protection. If your ears "ring" after a noise you are on the road to hearing loss, it is cumulative but avoidable.
I always wear ear plugs when welding. At the high amperage it's very noisy. You just can't see them. I've already done a lot of damage to my hearing, but it does help with marriage. I can't hear the wife complain as much. Lol
@@TopperMachineLLC always look for the upside in any adverse condition🤣
@@TopperMachineLLC I was also concerned about your hearing, but I could see that you were wearing ear plugs during this video. Like you, I have hearing damage from not using hearing protection when I was young (nobody did, as we didn't know about it back then). I use ear muffs when making noise, as my hearing is now very sensitive to even mild noise levels, which cause intense pain. I even have to tell my wife to talk more quietly when she thinks she is talking normally and not even yelling, but it sounds like it to me because of the hearing damage.
Got me rolling in the floor with the farternator. Hahahaha.
👍
That fan hes wearing, i know what would happen if we used it. My boss would crop dust me with one of those all weekend, liquor drinks and livers farts and id filly hood with my previously eaten breakfast.😂
I fumigated a coworker that was wearing one 😂
Hay from Green bay Wisconsin I welder a and restoration of old tool
We were just over there touring UWGB. My stepson plans on going there for mechanical engineering.
Terminology is interesting, didn't think of a rerailer being a "frog", but it makes sense.
Brings to mind a local incident eons ago. A guy on the section gang was working on a frog and got hurt by a nut flying off. The nurse asked him what happened, so he told her he was taking the nuts off a frog, and one hit him. She was confused until his coworker explained it to her.
A video on the frogs doing work would be good
I thought you must have been running about 200A the way the weld was going. It was handy that you showed the gauges so we could see.
I think your tension on the wire spool is a bit high as the spool looked like it was trying to hold the wire back too much.
I have fought with that spool holder for a long time. I think it's due for rebuild as I can't get new parts for it.
@@TopperMachineLLC I bet you know a good machinist, maybe ask him nicely to make so parts for you. Haha.
I worked for Missouri Pacific Railroad/Union Pacific and I worked a lot of derailments that were caused by many different causes . To be able to specify a derailment was caused by ' AN ACT OF GOD ' was rare , blaming the derailment on track conditions or train crew mishandling was always a battle .
Why not stick weld?
Great video
We call these things fish plates. We use A hy-rail truck with hydraulic re-railing Equipment now. The fish plates are on display now at the central office.
Good stuff as always.
I can totally understand not filming derailments.
A major grain processor in my area went so far as to stop putting their logo on their rail cars due to media coverage of derailments. (This was 5 or 10 years ago).
A train derailed snarling up traffic in some town.
There were 5 or 10 of this companies cars in the train.
The news shows up, gets a tight shot of their logo and leads off with "Blah Blah Blah company's train derails and inconveniences the entire town!"
It wasn't a unit train.
Just a train with some of their cars.
Granted, I don't see how dropping logos will help when reporting marks are a thing but whatever.
After the East Palestine derailment media coverage and federal over reaction will just get worse sadly.
I wondered when you'd get tired of piddling along with the little grinder.
A couple of questions, what is your Miller amps set at for welding to such a thick part? Second, is that a cannon laying on the floor by the roll up door?
I showed the ammeter while welding in the video. With these welders you set voltage and wire speed, that in turn sets the amperage. Yes that is a cannon. I recently invested in some artillery due to the current status of the world.
Dave at the Cumberland Mine Railroad channel showed a rerailing of a locomotive.
His FRA inspectors must not be like ours.
@@TopperMachineLLC
Isolated line only 18 miles long from crusher to river harbor. All rolling stock is trucked from Poland Mines PA to harbor terminal.
@@TopperMachineLLC What is the big deal, we dont get it?
@@lundysden6781 The FRA or Federal Railroad Administration is a watchdog agency similar to the FTC, FCC, FDA, and much of the old ICC pertaining to railroads. They act a lot like OSHA, now do you get it?
As an add-on, the Cumberland Mine Railroad is not part of the national railroad system by not having any interchange with another railroad. They can't exchange rail equipment with another railroad just by switching; any equipment has to be loaded onto trucks to go either way. The same with the Black Mesa & Lake Powel Railroad in Arizona.
Got to be super annoying when you get the car pulled to the top of the railed and it jumps back over and goes back off. Looks like a second row of beads behind the tail at the top to buttress it sure would not hurt.
It was super frustrating. I can't even explain the feeling you get when they climb up the frog and hit the rail on the other side.
That table would be useful to deal with those you secretly don't like...
As in:
"Just sit here a minute whilst I set things up"
☹🇬🇧
When you’re video started I saw the lighting strike on the table I thought it was a laser in bossing something as the video proceeded I see it was flame strike
Are you using manganese alloy?
What is that made of? Malleable iron? Cast steel?
Cast steel.
Would there be any chance that you could mock up a short piece of track to be able to show the concept of how they work as I have never even heard of them before and would like to see how they work. As you said the real thing you wouldn’t do that I well understand anyway another good video
Setup is too much for me to do by myself. As you know, I do these videos alone. But the concept is that they lay over the rail and act as a ramp. The flanges I built up force the wheel to the correct location, and it just drops onto the rail.
@@TopperMachineLLC very simple but cool idea it must make it easier than having to use the big crane from your other video
@@workingovertime4429 depends on the situation. Each took has its place.
You tube has a video.
Cooking frogs and doing jobs, both should be well done. You met both.
I am curious, the frog is obviously cast, do you know if it is cast steel or ductile iron?
cast steel, can't weld cast iron like it did.
Something that thick you should be using dual shield or spray transfer not short circuit
Thanks for showing that.
Even if you can’t show a real “re railment” if you could spend a few minutes showing how those are setup next to the track and the principal behind how they are used. I just can’t quite picture it in my head. Understand if even showing this though might draw scrutiny you don’t want/need.
Keep up the great work.
Basically, you lay it over the rail and there is a wedge you drive in to lock it in place. The wheel just climbs up and over, being forced by the flanges I built up, to the correct location and drops back on the rail.
@@TopperMachineLLC ok, I think I get it. I had it in my head you sat that next to the rail. Thanks!
On this channel about 3 months ago, demonstrates how to use frogs to rerail a locomotive.. it can be a frustrating process youtube.com/@ccrx6700
@@mark111943I made a post demonstrating how to use the frogs, but I didn't quote you in it so I want to make sure you see it
@@andyj74 appreciate you letting me know but I could find a post from you in these comments. Thanks Mark
I thought I was looking at a BBQ... lol.
It is a shame you can’t show more of the railroad stuff. It would help people to understand what all goes into getting stuff from point a to b.
iT would be great if you could sneek in a re-rail some time.
Not with the way the FRA has been the last several years.
See a cannon on the floor by your door. U going to film working on it ?
I may. Not much to do to it though.
@@TopperMachineLLC I am going to build one in smaller scale as some I can get the steel
Cast steel?
Yes
It is certainly understandable why you do not video railroad content as they operate under a different set of rules than some other industries.
Should have fixed in the😊 winter months
The great thing about your own personal Dutch Oven is that you can't file for divorce from yourself. :D
Great video as always! It seems like you would benefit from a PAPR unit. I was able to score a used 3M speedglas one on eBay for only $500, and considering they retail around $2000, that's not bad.
It didn't come with a battery so I adapted my 20v Dewalt battery with a generic Dewalt power bank and a step down voltage converter for less than $20 since a battery alone goes for $500.
The regular particle filter it comes with doesn't filter the actually toxic fumes, so be prepared to pay another $100 for the gas filter.
In total I was able to get a working PAPR for less than $650 so keep your eyes peeled online if you're interested. It is 1000x more comfortable than a half face respirator. Definitely worth it in my opinion. Keep up the great work!
Wouldn't it in the long run be better to mill out the inside edge and make a bolt on piece. Just thinking is all. ?n may or may not work !!
Or maybe use a hard face rod if that is still being used..?
I wouldn't trust a bolt in piece for the weight and force these see. I considered hard facing, but my concern was damaging the wheel. It doesn't take much to condemn a wheel.
I love to see a train hit one of these at high speed
We know that these tools help to get cars back on the tracks. Can you please help some of us understand how that happens exactly?
It's a ramp that goes over the rail. Pull the car up and it forces the wheels to the correct location and drops back on the rail.
@@TopperMachineLLC Okay. It can be placed in front or behind the wheels?
@@nobuckle40 As a railroader, the best location for a rerail frog is before the wheel(s) as pulling on a car has more control than pushing on it because of slack action.
@@royreynolds108 Thank you.
I respect your decision not to film. Some people just don't get what it's like in the field. they don't need to see it if they aren't willing to do the work.
Thank you. It is an industry I have worked in and fought for over 20 years.
Okay, but how does the attachments actually work? Make an animation video to show how they are used...
I pinned a comment with a video of someone else's.
so much legal issues with railroads... I wouldn't want to be anywhere near that stuff because I don't want the government or a lawyer getting rich off of me!
That is why I have really backed off on doing any railroad work the last 4 years. The FRA has turned into the German ss
@@TopperMachineLLC it's just not worth playing the gotcha game with the government, they always win!
@@cybermiester 100% correct. I've already been threatened about a few of my videos of railroad work. May actually pull them.
if you cant film derailments i dont want to see you
Good bye! So long! Good riddance!
Why are you using mig to build up a tool soft wire instead of weld mold hard surfing rod.
Because softer weld won't damage the wheels.
@@TopperMachineLLC makes sense I assumed train wheels had a Rockwell just below the rails. And I was under impression rails were a pretty high number. Thanks for replying back.
Notice that the rerailers are designed for 70-100 Lb rail as cast into the side of the piece. Are you using them on the appropriate size rail or larger size rail? Retired 51+ year railroader with 10+ years on the ground