Steve Jobs was an a**hole | Tony Fadell and Lex Fridman
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- Опубликовано: 15 окт 2024
- Lex Fridman Podcast full episode: • Tony Fadell: iPhone, i...
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Tony Fadell is an engineer and designer, co-creator of the iPod, iPhone, Nest Thermostat, and author of the new book Build: An Unorthodox Guide to Making Things Worth Making.
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"Are they motivated by their ego or by their mission?" A great concept and an important distinction.
hmm yes but what if their mission is part of their ego? like becoming successful for self satisfaction and to show others reputation.
@@nomaanahmed9688 what you're referring to is ego-motivated. EGO.
@@nomaanahmed9688 without ego you won't reach your sense of ambition and complete your mission eventually
No difference. Mission=self-interest.
@@rfish67 what? 328 = 1
A wise person once said... "A great discussion deserves a better click bait headline."
🤣
Wouldn’t it be amazing if a similarly wise person augmented this platform’s algorithm to surface content with headlines that didn’t have the connotation of being “clickbait?” One can dream… and perhaps even build. 😊
lmfaooooo 😂
Hahah
I had to give the video a thumbs down for that. An obviously misleading title. He was saying Steve was a perfectionist, fighting for the customer, not an egotist.
I once read a line by a former Apple engineer “Steve Jobs was an asshole with a purpose.” That nicely punctuates the difference to lots of assholes in the world who are no Steve Jobs.
Steve Jobs was no Steve Jobs.. according to the actual genius Steve Wozniak, he knew nothing of product development, software, programming, engineering..he developed zilch, nothing... his goal was to be important and be around important people..he was a disgusting human being actually
Steve Jobs was a great person
@@vimalcurio u knew him personally?
@@marx0matko ye
@@vimalcurio good for u , u succeeded :)
It's amazing how much of Tony Fadell's approach to people management matches with "How to win friends and influence people". Really shows how important people management is on top of technical excellence.
Charles Manson was a huge fan of that book lol
@@austinchaseofficial He was also superb at "people management"
@@sombra1111 Hahaha 🤣
@@justtestingonce dropcam ceo sold the company and then started to work for Nest lmao. Check your timeline
@@gickygackers you make no sense, everyone knows that, what point are you trying to make? Fadell screwed up managing dropcam.
This "noble asshole" mythos falls apart from when you consider whether or not you'd teach it to your children. It's a terrible personality trait to archetype and deify. Slave owners had a mission. It wasn't personal, they wanted to make money. But it was still wrong. Obviously they were more than "just assholes" but the point that ego vs mission is not justified still stands.
Being an asshole because you're a driven genius is an excuse for low energy consciousness.
Inspiration > intimidation.
Even geniuses have flaws. We should worship the genius and be able to recognize the flaws. This man does not.
Well said
To be fair your perspective also falls apart in certain situations. Time is limited, and frankly, being an "asshole" just saves time. Yeah, you will get offended... but at the end of the day, we get what we want faster and more often.
It's a means to an end which is clearly not ideal. But unfortunately, people can't help but be offended in the presence of a chosen one. What it comes down to is: did the end justify the means? Yes. Yes it did.
@@lsdbear6276 Hmm justify the means? LOl no its just enterteiment device bro.
@@alesksander It's just APPLE one of the most valuable companies that ever existed. You're clearly a bit of a moron... I'd suggest you refrain from trying to debate online.
This synopsis crumbles once you become more open minded to the idea that morality is not objective and varies according to each perspective and circumstance. Rather than berate the "noble asshole" mythos why don't you reconsider the conventional standard of western morals?
Hard disagree on it being 'usually clear' if someone is ego motivated or not. Life and everything in it is grey. Every single one of us is partly ego motivated and partly not.
Also hard disagree on that being the only distinction between a good guy and a jerk.
Even if it’s not “ego” motivated, that doesn’t mean you’re not a terrible person.
This whole video is a slightly more intelligent version of the wal-mart morning meetings the workers have with managers, and the bullshit they feed them to raise morale and raise spirits when speaking to customers to give those feel good vibes = more sales.
@@harackmw haha. That’s perfect. I really feel gaslit by this guy. Oh, you mean I actually enjoy having my boundaries broken because it makes me a better person? Thank you so much for abusing me kind master.
@@roarblast7332 Yes, though in that case the boundaries being broken at Wal-Mart were "Come on people! We made 300,678 thousand on this day last year, lets go for 350,000, I know we can do it if we work together!"
Title: "Steve Jobs was an a**hole"
Video: he was amazing and had no issues whatsoever
😅
Same here. However I knew that there’s no way SJobs could be demeaned. Click bait
Oh, he certainty was at times, but this video has nothing to do with that.
He revealed his true character with how he treated his daughter.
Just on the basis of stealing people's ideas the title should have been "Steve Jobs was an unethical a**hole"
how s that ?.he s sugarcoating how AH he was. he did call his chapter in the book AH*.. he surely was. his daughter his own flesh and blood thought he was , mind you those not related to him. Wozniak and all those who committed suicide surely thought he was .he wanted slaves with wages. I think jobs is just a puppet for people behind him. after all iPhone is a spying device. .also jobs was into Buddhism at the time of his death they were around him and I remember reading his daughter saying something negative about them. she also mentioned jobs family being mean to her too. what a mistake her mother made to have his child.
It drives me nuts that so many CEOs have this nature where they pretend to shrug off good ideas but then bring it back to the table as their own the next day. Like, what’s the big deal with giving credit to the team member that came up with it in the first place? Wouldn’t that increase positive momentum?
that's the mindset of an employee, he tries to win the steak. While other real leaders's work are basically help and lift people up.
This was one thing that rubbed me wrong in Steve's biography (apart from not recognizing his daughter). And not only with “normal” employees, he did that to senior management too.
Wouldn't happen in a worker cooperative like Mondragon (7th largest company in Spain). Where workers are also the owners, and leadership is accountable to their workers.
@@trandat4 Can you elaborate?
@@vinnyhaddad a real leader think like a leader. If you're a business owner, you think of how to develop your business long term including manage people and create and good working culture. If you own a business, you work for your employees - they don't work for you.
A CEO, which is pretty much just an employee got paid in cash or stock options, would try his best to:
- Get all the credit and attention for himself.
- Bully people in lower paygrades.
- Try to exploit people to get the best result to impress the REAL bosses.
...
They think like an employee, not like a boss. A good boss would take care of other people, a bad boss would try to be the best employee.
That's why i never understand the bullshits of "changing the world", "redefine mobile phone...". Jesus Christ, it's just a fucking phone. Stop taking your work too seriously. It's just a job. After all, we are just human beings. We go home from work and spend time with our family. Real values, real important things aren't those superficial stuffs like "success". Craving for money, status and reputation drive people crazy and twist their basic perspective of life.
When a brilliant person says a bad idea, many times the story (or perspectives) are incomplete on both sides. As a former fashion designer now working on AI, I've seen that in technical environments many ideas (and people) get discarded just because they don't know how to properly communicate their ideas. Think of it this way, a brilliant person wouldn't say a dumb idea unless it brings a value greater than the risk of looking dumb.
At minimum there is a strong intuition about something, but intuition tends to be hard to put on words, even for trained creatives. They might simply have some bits and pieces that they are sure bring value to the table, but they’ve packed them into a whole that doesn’t make much sense, because what is expected is to present ideas and not works-in-progress (even when others could build upon the good bits). The least they're saying is that they've identified a problem that has not been dealt with.
I find a better approach to deal with these cases is asking them questions, dissecting their ideas to their essence, helping them clarify concepts and saying what it is and what isn't, asking them to be more precise, summarize in 1 or 2 words so that we don't get lost on the dumb sounding details. This process ends by asking the other person “Is all you wanted to say contained and well-specified in these pieces we’ve found?”. If the answer is an empowered yes, while there is no more dumbness to be found, you are good to go. Sometimes though, because of time constrains you have to pause this process, and ask them to stay on hold, let other ideas unfold, and then come back to it. Keeping them like this also tends to make their ideas click with other people’s.
In my experience this helps retain a big part of the value that otherwise would get dismissed, and the bits and pieces with value get simplified and placed under a shared frame of reference, so then the team can build back from them or integrate them into an idea that does make sense and has all perspectives on board. You end up with a truly shared vision, and ideas that everyone feels as theirs, so even on implementation phase, this has a big impact. What your questions mean is “what is important to you? what is it about it that you care about?” and your intention is wanting to care and understand. This is a beautiful process as it connects you to others.
Are you a blogger now?
@@curbmuncher He has an opinion
@@curbmuncher you hate his energy ?
@@curbmuncher I don’t usually comment on social media, but this (creativity for techies) has been one of my main lines of work for about 10 years now, so hopefully this attempt to condense it on a comment might be useful to someone who finds it interesting and can spare a minute or two. If its not you, just keep on scrolling :)
Your comment reminds me of kanye
This was an interesting take. Having worked Apple retail for almost 10yrs I can definitely say I saw a huge shift in our store culture/leadership after SJ passed away. And not for the better. It was subtle at first but as the years passed it became very clear to me at least. We were turning and burning customers and repairs. I left in 2015 and for the most part I do not miss being yelled or someone mad at on the daily about their Apple Store experience. But, I do miss being in the thick of problem solving and the moment when tears turn into smiles.
One time I was at a genius bar for another reason, and there was a mother wanting a warranty replacement based upon what would have been clearly and obviously a lie to even the most uneducated of people. She literally resorted to yelling when it was clear that the employee politely and patiently declined. I have never seen a grown adult act like this before in my life (it was a richer area, I wondered if that had anything to do with it). I didn't think it was that normal, maybe it is.
@@jay.rhoden that’s retail every day bro
@@jay.rhoden Yup. Sadly that’s the norm in the Apple store. People lose their minds.
@@jay.rhoden Is it normal? Search for "Karens Who Got What They DESERVED" in RUclips. You'd be surprised.
the major turning point for me at the genius bar was when we stopped being able to override warranties ourselves, or perform complex repairs and needed manager approval to do anything that deviated from normal policy. Then they created the FRS position with technically lacking employees because of the overflow of simple iPhone issues. Front line employees (who underwent extensive training and a month in cupertino) were no longer able to really be the brand ambassadors. Ron Johnson ruined the soul of the Apple Retail experience and then went on to ruin Macy's.
And then everyone went out and bought plastic screen protectors for their glass screens!
😂😂😂
...and thought they were being smart
so job s job was to make more money.
I have contempt and respect for Jobs. One of my favorite stories is how an employee finished a project and had done a good job. Steve asked something like, "This is well done, but is this the absolute BEST you could have done?" "Well, I worked hard and I think I did a good job here" "Yes, but is it the very best you could have done?". "Well.... no". "Okay, try again".
That's Steve doing the best HE can, and Steve is right there. Steve was not an asshole, you have contempt because you believed propaganda.
@@RogerWilco1 Being a fan-boy blinds you to reality. I am realistic and pragmatic. I can name a bunch of people I look up to that I can also heavily criticize.
This isn't a bad thing, it's saying "I know you can do even better than this" and then giving them to time to do it.
@@bgill7475 ...and also being an asshole about it.
This is how a good parent raises a child…obviously they do it in a gentle loving way and not as harsh as Steve probably did.
But pushing someone to realize their potential and not letting them accept “good enough” is an act of love in the end.
It's so funny how bringing up Steve Jobs always gets people to proudly admit their bad tempers. Since Steve Jobs was successful, people to want to align themselves with him so they freely admit their flaws almost in a competitive way. Lol
Love the podcast Lex !
Very true, gives permission to have an unacceptable character trait. It also shows that who are heroes are is very important as it permits and denies behaviours.
@@Dedicated_.1 Yeah. That's actually a great point!
The vids I’ve been getting in my feed from this channel lately have been 10/10. So much to learn from so many people. Great questions Lex asks.
Man , Lex is killing it . The Array of guests, subjects , discussions are nothing short of being unprecedented Content . Thank you Lex , you are appreciated
A non celebrity, authority, expert, author---- you know, the regular American middle class worker, will never be seen in the interview chair. 😁
@DARKOvibrations lol
@DARKO True. Pushed hard by other members of the tribe. And his guests are predominantly tibesmen.
@DARKOvibrationsI hope jealousy doesn’t kill you… Let me educate you and all you Jew hating morons, it’s not that we are privileged, it’s being taught to be hardworking, educated, we don’t become parents before marriage and we have morals.. calling success white privileged is just an excuse for your failures… cry baby
Absolutely spot on. The delineation between ego and mission. Brilliant!
and means squat
@@bryanpinto4051 and how many world-changing products have you made, genius?
Absolutely personal take on some old memories that he wants to turn into positives after so much time because Jobs is popular nowadays.
Jobs was just an ass, who knows how many good people who would make that iPhone even better just left because of his abuse. His ego was huge and probably damaged more the end product the help it in the end
@@liquidsnakex Jobs never buld anything in his life he just changed other people work into things that are worse usually but sell better.... iPhone was designed as a closed system because he thought majority of the people are dumb and that they will never learn to use anything complicated
@@miloszivkovich Sure he built nothing... other than the company that built the products, clown.
I think the iPhone is closed because 99% of people will never root their phone, or do any other advanced tinkering with it, and would rather it just be reliable instead.
If Jobs did it just because he thought people were dumb, you'd expect to see the same with macOS but we don't, it's far more open than windows is.
How pissed would Steve be Lex' camera is out of focus?
Hey, at least his tissue box is in perfect focus?
hahaha!
he wouldn't notice watching on his 3.5 inch screen.
For a second I thought something was wrong with my eyes
Nice for Lex to comment on how, professionally, he can sometimes not be the calm, collected guy we see on the podcast. And with how goddamn smart the guy is, it's no wonder.
1) Stupid ideas frustrate smart people, but
2) Every smart person, at any level, is stupid to someone smarter than them
I dealt with him in the mid-80s, shortly after his ouster from Apple. I was a floor manager at local convention center. He was to give a speech that afternoon. He commandeered one of my housemen so he could make changes to the set up of the conference space. I was under the gun and needed that guy to help the rest of the crew in another ballroom but Jobs wouldn’t let me take him away. He was hyper meticulous, and at the time, a miserable SOB. His speech was laced with anger but also super entertaining.
Worked security for the rich and famous in the late 90s. Steve Jobs had a conference at the resort I worked at. I was told to speak to his manager only. The problem was. The manager stepped out for a phone call. I had to talk to Steve Jobs about an urgent matter. Steve ripped into me. Told me don’t talk to him. I said ok sir. Then his manager showed up. He got yelled at. Then Steve Jobs yells “ I don’t talk to people like that!” Once I got back to my office. I told everyone what a dick he was. Let’s just say Steve Jobs had to wait another hour for his dinner and his ride to the airport..
explain to me how angry and super entertaining. ?
@@mikethemechanic7395 even his daughter and wife said he was an sob. well his roots might explain his personality Syrians are hated in the middle east perceived as arrogant and harsh. no one like them manipulative and total sob. versus the genius here whose of Lebanese origin but Christian are seen the exact opposite at least the Christians very innovative engaging and welcoming.
So Steve was not an asshole, he was just on a mission: terorising the actuall engineers to create most attractive stuff for consumers to buy - to make Steve one of the richest people on the planet...
just a great noble mission of consumerism and greed, no ego at all!
Look up Bill Burr's bit on Jobs
Exactly. Tony's doing a lot of rationalizing.
Money was never the goal, folks (I worked with Steve for 20 years @ NeXT/Apple). Tony isn’t rationalizing, he is speaking the truth. Obviously, Steve had an ego, but it didn’t dominate his thinking. Both Steve and Tony are amazing communicators & leaders. Not all rich people are evil!
Exactly… i’m with you on this one…
@@snaroff007 Fidel Castro was not about money either, does this makes him a noble person? 🤷♂️🤔
the fact that Steve wanted the inside to be beautiful is the reason why Apple became was it is, but stealing people's credit., not cool
That was genius. A great leader knows when they are stepping in it and will adjust.
Lex, I love you… but you don’t need ‘click-bait’. It’s beyond you! I listened to this full episode and it’s great. But this title turns me off because I’m with you because you’re not like others.
Thousand percent agree. I thought I was taking crazy pills, but the content of the video states the opposite of what the title claims. But whoever runs posting in this channel doesn't care. Click bait earns more dollars.
That story about the glass vs. plastic on the iphone 4 was amazing!
Job's reasoning for the glass is so simple but somehow brilliant at the same time. I'd be going back in forth in my head, trying to weigh the pros and cons of each. But that one simple statement makes glass seem like the obvious best choice. Plastic would be much more durable overall but more likely to get minor scratches. Glass would be less prone to minor damage from scraping, etc. but dropping it would be disastrous. Jobs realizing that essentially any damage caused to a glass case would have to be directly caused by the user is crazy. I mean it seems simple and obvious after hearing it, but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have thought of that.
It was for the original iPhone not the iPhone 4 …
What about smashed screens?!!
under people like Jobs I'm sure employees grew a lot in terms of their careers, but I bet it was at the expense of their personal relationships with spouses and children. what's more important? your loved ones or your career? I choose my family, but part of that is earning enough to take care of them financially. I do not live to work all the time. work is a means to an end.
@Hikerx this is so true...I remember a steve jobs doccie called a man in the machine...one of the guys who worked on a apple computer said that he was always pushed, worse he was always with steve(travelling together), he was an engineer and what he said is exactly what you saying...he said the computer they were building with steve cost him his family...it was really sad as he was all alone when they were in his house(for the Steve jobs doccie)
You choose what you want. There is a cost to everything. You want to be home all the time you may not get the top dollar. That is life folks
Steve comes off as a jerk if you read Lisa Jobs memoir Small fry. Years of neglect and hurtful comments on her birth, cant justify that.
You could make that case thru history though, when speaking about the titans of industry, retail, fashion etc etc.
Those people were often times total bastards but they had a personal mission.
Being "nice" is a bad way to set yourself in motion, as far as achieving anything.
Hopefully "nice" is a byproduct, but its not the fuel in the tank.
Nice to see people in the comments section with level heads and not chasing shiny objects. So many forget, or are unaware of, the days when people lived quality lives without any form of electronic "comfort zone". People, animals, nature .... make life worth it, not inanimate objects.
A very smart man who communicates clearly. Very rare combo
I have a feeling working on Lex’s eng team is probably not the most hospitable place.
Wrong
No one cares about your feelings
He comes off like a complete prick. “I call out the really shitty ideas.” “I might say something when tensions are high, like ‘you are the dumbest person who’s ever existed.” That’s confusing and cruel and weird behavior from a superior.
@@MichaelKneller he s Jewish..
you have jobs and lex 2 AH versus classy true genius FADELL..
if you wanna translate that politically it makes perfect sense. fadell is of Christian lebanese origin .Lebanon is a biblical country bullied occupied for decades by horrible Syria where jobs originally from. and israel where lex belong to. so ironic..
The Most disagreeable person, pretty much ever. Would have been fine with me if he hadn't colluded with other tech companies to keep salaries low. That's not just a**hole behavior. That's totally unethical.
First I've heard of it. All you ever hear is how well paying these jobs are.
@@redmed10Low or high depends on the expertise, and the amount of work put in.
They may be well paying relative to the average salary, but the end ROI can often be not worth all that effort to acquire the expertise and to put in the work in these environments, thanks to the unethical practices.
@@redmed10 google Steve jobs anti-poaching...like Tony is saying (well he didn't say it but...) his ego was to make a great product for the consumer that would establish a legacy for himself. great for the consumer, good for jobs, bad for jabroni engineers
@@andymoiser4611 you're holding it wrong.
Steve was likely a psychopath
I have an understanding of why people enjoy these interviews, mostly because they are easy to listen to and give insight into the fascinating world of science. But I mostly wish that in the description they would have resources that we could use to learn more about the topic. They are very fascinating, I only wish that we could all get the proper resources needed to learn more. Thanks for the content lex, and I really hope all is well.
the last piece about recognizing ideas from the team is so important in project / problem solving based work it’s fatiguing to generate ideas when they’re not rewarded but the team can only succeed if everyone feels capable of adding value
The more I study Carl Jung's works and link it with people like Steve been an Ni dominant... the whole "if people mess up the Se (drop the phone) that's on them" makes more and more sense.
He’s entp
Tony could be Howie Mandel's brother.
I actually know his younger brother Greg, I’m from the Detroit area and worked at a photo studio with his brother.
I thought this was an interview with Howie. Just read the title.
I don't think it matters what you accomplish if you do it by bullying your staff and affecting their mental health. Steve jobs could have learnt to manage his anger and express his passion in a more healthy way, but he chose not to. I don't think that is an admirable quality. It's selfish and toxic and I'd hate to work for someone like that
Locking the focus on the tissues was brilliant, 10/10, no notes
Narcissism is an epidemic. As soon as you realize how insignificant you are, the faster you can conceptualize and appreciate your contributions. Steve Jobs was a great contributor!
It's not an epidemic. There's just a foolish trend of diagnosing everybody with a personality disorder, without even having the credentials.
He created necessities no one needed in order to grow his frotune and his ego.
He didn't contribute with anything important. The sages, the philosophers, the scientists, these people have really contributed with something.
Ask those chinesse workers that builded those products.
@@elgrannido156 thankfully you don’t decide what other people want and need.
In civilized society, people decide what they want and need individually and the people have spoken... your approval is neither wanted nor needed.
This is the best and most direct form of democracy that can exist, people voting with their wallets several times a day, and the vote only affects those that consent to it.
@@liquidsnakex sorry to break it to you but people don't really decide what they want in the sense that you're implying
This guy enthusiasm is contagious! really liked his view on managing feedback on ideas.
The glass on my iPhone 12 plus still scratches from the keys in my purse. I always have to get a screen protector. This has always been a design failure from the beginning.
When you can blame the customer everyone is on board
I’d say not acknowledging someone’s idea and then slightly modifying it and proclaiming it as your own genius idea is a pretty asshole thing to do.
If any boss, for whatever reason, ever, even once, called me dumb, I would quit right then and there. I could never respect a leader like that.
But but but Steve was a genius.
Lol
So was Einstein…
I watched a doc on jobs. What i recall is that he denied his daughter's paternity for years. He also, i believe, stole steve wozniak's portion of a payment from a deal they made with, i think, Atari. To me the man is to be pitied and not honored. It's actually very sad.
It was a small amount of money and Woz forgave him. Jobs later reunited with his daughter and was a father to her. I know allot of people who did worse things.
@@Noumenon4Idolatry If that is true, you really need to change your circle of acquaintances.
@@Noumenon4Idolatry it wasn't a small amount of money, it was 7 grand. Adjusted for inflation that's over 24 thousand. Woz forgave Jobs but wanted nothing to do with him. His treatment of his daughter is still awful. To top it off, his arrogance is what ultimately killed him ironically. On his death bed he's quoted as saying, he wished he had followed the doctors orders for treatment rather than trying a holistic remedy for his cancer.
@@EmptyTelevision
Sounds like you really hate the guy. Maybe you should work on that before it makes you sick. Woz and his daughter are both extremely rich because of Steve. I guess if they still feel upset about it they can pay for their therapy.
Would you say either of them were better for knowing him or would of been better off without him?
People are usually critical about Steve being a perfectionist and an asshole but they also seem to be really angry that he wasn’t perfect.
@@ohsweetmystery
I’ve changed circles of acquaintances many times but I’ll be 40 this year so...not as naive.
My favorite manager said “I want you to do it my way but I don’t want ‘malicious compliance’ (LOL) and later, when a quality manager berated me on something, my manager said “I told her don’t disrespect my employee directly; I can correct them, but come to me if you have a complaint.” He had my back.😅
A--hole is a subjective and highly relative characterization. The same person in a given event seems to one person deserving of the title while not to another or even to the same person on a different day. I think it's more fruitful to analyze particular character or personality traits. Interesting conversation though.
SqueezeJob was such an unmitigated shameless committed Über-Bungholio del Mundo he got kicked out of Apple for gratuitous wanton relentless unstoppable irredeemable Turbo A-Holery.
I mean per Apple baldie's comments, SqueezeJob literally tried to Third Reich Das Macintoss Mutterboard.
8:20 isnt it still the customers fault if it scratches in their pocket if they put the phone in the same pocket as coins and keys?
Depends on how much responsibility the development/design team takes on in shaping the product experience. Steve, and Tony in this case, are suggesting that keys and coins in pocket are normal use.
I worked at an electronics company for about fifteen years. I had three managers during that time. The second manager was competent and professional, but human, all the times I remember. He decided to retire after around five years.
There was a rumour that he was going to replaced by a guy who lead a small scientific team but was not a manager.
I had heard from multiple people and multiple times that this guy was an a**hole. So I directly asked five people who I knew had worked with him "Is he an a**hole?"
One person responded "Well, he's not a people person." I then rhetorically asked "Isn't it a managers job to deal with people?"
Two other people I asked said "Yes, he is an a**hole."
The last two people I asked said "NO! He's not just an a**hole, he is a f***ing a**hole!"
He was incompetent and unprofessional more times than I can remember. The project we were working on was cancelled by the company, the assets sold off, and around one hundred people were laid off. He was promoted.
What a gripping story so well told. 10/10.
This conversation is GOLD.
A lot of bosses are a**holes, why is Steve Jobs always singled out?
I'm a software developer. This talk is gold! Thank you Lex
Some people that met him found him smarmy in appearance.
@@celesasheldon6931you mean lex is fake
@11:20. Obviously, an MIT researcher is not going to take the comment "I think you are dumbest person in the world" personally.
This is a great and useful discussion, sharing it with my three sons who are in their early 20s.
I don't think so, this Tony guy has the temperament of a child, can't use mean words around him
@@lucasjames8281 wtf do you mean. I’m confused
@@lucasjames8281 he respects people and because of that he held a leadership position for a very long time
@@brandnaqua I've actually changed my mind on this guy and think he's pretty cool 😅
@@lucasjames8281 LOL that's cool! honestly now that there's more info out there from Apple during that era i'm amazed at how much there is to learn! I've gotta find out more about this guy :D
Bill Burr's bit on Jobs is spot-on & hilarious. 😆
and more accurate
"if the phone has a glass screen, and they drop it, they better have taken out apple care, or buy a new one" what a business model.
Hey Lex another great video. Noticed you are out of focus though, may need to pull camera like 1 foot backwards if it doesn't have manual focus control, your minimum focus distance looks to only reach the tissues.
There is a TON of gray area in his description of assholes. I have heard too many people humble brag about themselves as "perfectionists", but perfectionism (in their own interpretation) is ultimately a virtue in their mind; they even imagine it to be attainable, "if only the world could get on the same page". But perfectionism is actually DYSfunctional and delusional. There is another type of "asshole", which is the one who boldly brings the hard truth of limitations and failure; that role is no less valuable. But those people get fired, buried, ignored and made the pariahs.
Jobs told the young mother of his child that he couldn’t be the father bc he was unable to father children. Some people are just not good people.
Glass scratches from keys in the pocket too! I have to remember to carry my keys in the opposite pocket. I scratched my iPhone with keys before.
After Tim Ferris had an interview with Tony, I was waiting for LEX version cause I knew it would be MY version 👌
Most important question that wasn't asked: How did this tie into the glass trackpads on MacBooks/PowerBooks? IIRC, the glass trackpad predated the iPhone and when released was seen as silly unnecessary Apple perfectionism… but was likely actually prototyping glass touch surfaces leading up to the iPhone. Also, 2002's iPod 2nd gen's non-rotating ClickWheel seemed like an odd upgrade publicly rationalized to be more durable, but likely was also an example of building out tech that would be needed for the iPhone.
was the focus on the Kleenex an artistic choice?
I can resist some of what he said about assholes. Some assholes are *just assholes*. Steve Jobs was not one of those people, but to say that assholes are the way they are because they see something in you is just not accurate most of the time.
Smartphones have killed humanity
What a great guest. Went and bought his book after this!
9 month later what you thought
I don't think it is possible to divorce one's ego from a "mission" as easily as he says here, that sounds like corporate speak. Ego and mission feed off of each other, and rarely for the better. If a person ends up gaining a great amount of power that further complicates things, creating even more blind spots. A good example would be how Jobs never thought large screen phones would be a thing, and you were foolish to design such one, clearly he was 100% wrong. Apple even tried to resell a smaller phone recently, and promptly discontinued it after the iphonemini flopped. He also didn't want a windows version of itunes even though the ipod was a hit, imagine if he had gotten his way; apple would have remained a fringe niche player in the market. So the mission for him was being different, at the expense of sales, despite sales being his thing. If he screwed up, how much more problematic is it for the average prick on a mission. Too often the misson becomes an excuse for assholes to act as they do.
In my experience the most innovative teams, chasing a worthwhile mission, are passionate. Real progress is often marked by a "crisis" when you've learned something that's valuable, but creates stress. It may seem hard but inject humor, stat! One of the most powerful things I did was assign everyone their day to take the blame. In the good times it was just playful. But we discovered how powerful a pressure valve it could be when we needed to stop the yelling and start to work the problem. Our office manager never wrote a single line of code, but if it was her day she had to take the blame when the firmware and hardware refused to bow to our brilliance.
And this guy praises E.Musk saying he's a visionary but criticizes Jobs. While in reality Musk is way worse than Jobs
A better solution might have been, offering two versions: 1. with glass 1. with plastic. Would have been the easiest way.
No one wants an iphone with glass, how many times do they shatter? Everyone was happy with Palm Pilot being plastic! My Palm Pre NEVER got scratched even when it fell down. So now everyone has to cover the phone with a plastic case anywhere which totally ruins the experience and point of having an iphone in the first place because you cant see the beautiful design you paid for, what the hell is the point if people just put plastic cases over it, that is far worse! STUPID! It is far better to have a plastic phone with a few small dings anyway versus a phone that is all glass with cracks and shattered glass all the time. This is a total failure of product design and a total failure of Jobs to make a glass phone. It completely fails basic logic and goes against everything he was trying to advocate for.
I'm first. Oh God what do I say? The pressure is unreal.
You have exceeded all expectations
hahahahah
There will be a statue erected in your honor. I'm sure a federal holiday will come of this as well. Probably another round of stimulus checks too. It's also quite possible you may never have to pay taxes on anything ever again.
que?
Best joke best joke 😂😂🤣🤣
“If you want to make everyone happy, don't be a leader, sell ice cream” ....
In my opinion the glass screen was a disaster…. They did all break and now we all have plastic cases on our phones.
Yeah no shit right…gotta check if any smartphones have plastic screens. Loved the old Nokia…never broke. Batt lasted forever.
Yea, it’s your fault!
Great video, is it me or was the camara focused on the paper tissues?
Customer failure is an old concept. Steve Jobs did not think that up himself.
"Steve Jobs never called--- I must just think too different."
cc. 👀🐡
I worked for many highly intelligent and powerful people in Silicon Valley between 1978 to 2017. As a a highly creative self-employed person I was overlooked by Apple execs. who claimed to want the independent creative genius. I worked for the top exec at Apple in his residence. Steve Jobs denied me an interview proposed to him by my customer.
My wife would have loved that I had a better paying profession.
Doing what
I absolutely loved this interview. Tony Fadell's story is fascinating.
It is way easier to have a strong opinion that annoys people when you are right. That manager that constantly has a strong opinion but in the end they were either wrong or it didn’t matter were the worst managers to work for. They are just making the project harder for no good reason
This conversation just highlights how much of a Genius "Bill Burr" is.
He was obviously an exceptional leader, he had to return to Apple after being kicked out as it was failing under Scully. And during his involuntary sabbatical he was central to Pixar, another hugely successful company. You have to be very driven to reach his level, and sometimes you’re going to annoy others.
fadel is a genius without him no ipod no iPhone not apple today.
"Are they motivated by their ego or by their mission?" is an Irrelevant Rationalization when, IF the project Fails its 100% Your Fault, BUT IF the project Wins HE'll Steal ALL The Credit, BECAUSE the Underlying Motivation IS Egotistically 'Your Making ME Look Bad Or Good'. The CLAIMED Mission is just a Smoke Screen to make him Look Better, Feeding HIS Ego.
Why do people tolerate asshole behavior?
“Making a decision” no matter what, is held in high regard - even if it’s catastrophic.
It’s all ego and subjective.
Now that’s a great guest and a Terrific interview.
Hi Lex, i want to thank you for being an inspiring human being through your humility, curiosity and love you show the world. I think it's a great idea to interview former president Barack Obama, so it's still well before the upcoming election where it seems too political and it's been over 6 years since he left office so that's for enough down the road. He is a very smart and kind man. I think most people whether they liked his policies or not would agree and think he is worth listening to in a long format.
Also following your recent trend of having powerful leaders on the show, this would come as a pleasant addition.
Thank you for taking the time to read this.
Musk is on a mission and he doesn’t seem to constantly yell or degrade colleagues/employees. Contraire to Jobs who was yelling on a daily/weekly basis. 😕
lol, he just fires people as a daily mission. With him everythg is hush hush.
@@jessg101 There is a limited amount of highly qualified employees for what Musk is on a mission for. Not like Amazon. So he cant fire on a daily basis.
@@jessg101 first that's not true and also, that's his right as a boss. He told employees to come work at the office or quit. Nothing wrong with that.
Why do we only talk about the owner of the companies ? We never talk about the people around them , the important are the workers .
the bad leader is that one that when it is his fault and only his fault, he blames you for it, as an engineer i hate liars and people that treat you as you are stupid when clearly you are not. The good engineer is that one that says no when has to be said... the easy thing is say yes to people above you that know much less than you. When you make a mistake accept you have make it and it is your fault... there is no perfection in engineering.. and of course do not blame people when is your fault...
Tony Fadell isn't with the shenanigans of disrespecting people. ICON.
Terrific interview and the first guy to confirm Steve wasn’t very technical.
Brilliantly explained. This is the golden ratio of a united and successful leadership.
Everyone says this guy was a genius. But what did he do besides recognize a product and market and sell that product? Because that's not a genius. That's a talent, for sure. But genius? Only by other snake oil salesmen because selling things as if you invented them is not new, but he was the best that's ever lived at it. He didn't make the first computer, he didn't make the best computer. He made the best all around product at times, combining aesthetics, user friendliness and performance, and he always was on par with the best out there. But his true value is always getting more for his products than others get for the same or better. And that glass story is what he may have told his team, but he knew everyone would have to buy a new one all the time and Apple today still cracks down on the after market repair industry. Nobody robs their customers more than Apple, and Steve created that culture. That's why they call him a genius, because other industries followed his lead on that. So he showed a bunch of rich guys how to get a lot richer. And small guys pray every day that one day they'll get away with it too. He created that whole culture.
Regardless of what they agreed on at Apple I would still definitely prefer plastic that way I wouldn't have to put a case on every smartphone that I've ever had because if I don't the screen will break after dropping it once or twice guaranteed
Great chat, thanks.
I wonder about the people that he fired in the elevators or hallways....
This is super enlightening. A pre-requisite delineation if you want to make it in a tough, high-stakes field.
Sounds like he was really good at convincing people of bullshit. Dropping a phone is normal use. It happens to pretty much every single person who has owned a phone at any point. I don't even need statistics to know that.
True... But, breakable phone means you probably buy a phone case. Plus, if it isn't broken, it also looks nicer than the scratched up plastic variant.
Interesting discussion, though the idea dropping is customer, bad design of plastic, is company, does not seem like a genius level issue or framing. Anyone who has worked in customer service is well aware of these kinds of issues, even if only for a few weeks. But it is high tech, so everyone is a genius.
Give you an example from the 80s. Expedition comes to our store with a bunch of really expensive North Face VE24 tents all of which failed in Iceland. Every pole, which were state of the art arrow shafting of the highest quality, had zig zag cracks down the tension side from hurricane force winds that had flattened the tents and put huge stress on the downwind side poles. What do you do? We replaced them, because the tent was basically sold for those conditions, even though these conditions were obviously worse than these tents regularly survived on Himalayan mountain expeditions. Even though the client might as well have run a dozer over the tents, they had purchased the right product, used it as intended, and were now returning it for replacement. Just a regular day at the office. But if Steve Jobs had been on the floor that day, he would have received an extra LED for his halo.
Apologetic nonsense. U can provide guidance without verbal abuse, period.
James Gosling said in his interview with Lex about Steve Jobs: "He was a jerk"
Good idea. Groundbreaking Spring is coming
Lex how is your opinion on the latest Optimus inventions... ?
Lex/Rogan for President
I'm glad to hear someone who is in the position to know say "no", Steve was not an a-hole. Wozniak confirmed that SJ was no technical genius. But SJ was the customer and product focused leader that insisted that his team exceed "good enough". And under SJ Apple innovated and was a market leader. Now look at Apple.
Jobs was a competent engineer, just not a genius like Woz. The idea that Jobs only knew marketing, is false. Woz is bitter because he could be a multi-billionaire but he left early.
Theres a new interview with Wozniak and there he starts to let out hes anger and frustration with SJ. He even said if I had a kid, I would never want him to be raised to be like SJ.
@@camcappe353 Yeah, its pretty sad. I think that has nothing to do with Jobs. I have met and talked to Woz, about a decade ago. He’s been having a rough time for quite awhile. He quit at the top of his game but has never been happy being out if the action do long- but he keeps backing losers because he’s too trusting.
@@RogerWilco1what do you mean by backing losers.