I think they both look great and useful throughout the range. No regular viewer would discern an objectionable difference, IMO. The prize goes to your lovely wife for patiently indulging you. Love the channel.
Impressed with how the sl2s held up against the a7siii. Obviously in higher iso the a7siii pulls ahead, but not as much as I was expecting. I’m keeping my limit at 25000 with my SL2S. I never think about upping iso, I’d rather get the shot than not get it. Great video
Yeah it definitely held up better than I expected. After further playing around in my studio, I think the Leica at 800 is a beautiful look, and that's what I'm aiming for with studio shooting. This camera is so heavy I'm still trying to figure out how to use it on the go haha
The Sony had a pink cast more noticeable at the lower ISO's than the Leica, so if your wife has a pink complexion then the Sony was better. To my eye the Leica was marginally better at 1600, but above that the Leica was hands down better at handling the noise. An excellent experiment, and I like your strategy of kit migration...better to take your time and get what you need first and want second. Wish you the best going full Leica.
Just added the SL2S and shot it along side my Sony at my last event in Uruguay. The low light was so good, but....to autofocus in lowlight....kind of just kept grabbing the Sony to ensure I got the shot. However, during the day walking around shooting the SL2-S....such a better experience, love the colors and files I got out of it, and enjoyed shooting it SO MUCH MORE. I am really hoping the SL3-S at some point that follows the SL-3 will have improved autofocus, especially in low light, and still maintain the lowlight performance and I could see a full jump from Sony into Leica for the event projects I shoot. I know nothing about video though so ;)
I picked up a used SL2-S after hearing great things about it. It was simply too big to replace my A7SIII and the combination of Sony's AF system, size, and low-light performance made it impossible to replace.
Dave I used leica m film cameras from 1971 on and to me it was all about the lenses. In digital I went from a Ricoh GXR with the leica module for a couple of years and then wanted back into FF. I then used a RX-1 for 4 years and then picked up a a7s body and used all my M lenses on it. After that I got a Sigma fp odd but fun camera and also used my M lenses on it, loved the color out of the Sigma. Have since added a a9 all these cameras I picked up used when I found a good deal on them, still have my M lenses but have started to add Zeiss Batis lenses. These days you can't really go wrong with anything you use. Whatever makes you feel good go for it....
After a few years of video with drones I was seeing all my camera equipment (sony) ..a nice set but ...the dealer said, try Leica. So I bought a LEICA SL2-S "Reporter" and my desire to photograph came back. Sony will have incredible AF (AFC) but photographing with the LEICA feels good. I just upgraded the firmware to version 6 and hope they still introduce improvements and don't abandon the development of improvements/optimizations now that the SL3 is out.
Question, have you considered LUMIX? Specifically the S5 II/X? The S5 cameras have dual gain are excellent hybrid cameras and outstanding video cameras. Considering LUMIX and Leica are L Mount members compatibility between lenses is guaranteed. The S series cameras have been said to have that Leica look also. I may be a bit biased though since I use an S5 II. 😅
I haven't, but I really consider resell values for our business because of depreciation / taxes. Leica has high resale values, which keeps equity in the business, and buying used Leica gear means I can sell it for what I have in it. It's unfortunately not like that in other brands.
I had Sony (and FUJIFILM) too before I switched to Leica. It was an attrition rate of 2 to 2.5 Sony lenses sold to buy one Leica lens. As you know the cost for entrance in the system is a hard nut to crack. I had the SL2S as well and eventually sold it for the S5IIx which is newer and better AF. Now I have 3 M cameras a bunch of M glass and L mount Panasonic for video.
I’m a big Leica M and Q shooter. I get what you mean it’s hard to go back to anything else. But in terms of video and flexibility the A7Siii is a beast. I’m patiently waiting for the SL3 though, but it will have to have a flip screen of some sort to win me over. It’ll have a tough task to beat my FX3 which is what I use for all my video work.
Sold the Q2 to get this, and I like it a lot. But yes, the SL3 must have a flip screen, phase auto focus, and the tri-res sensor and it will be the best camera Leica has produced.
I've had the Leica sl2s for two years now and have done some pick up shots with it that matched perfectly with Alexa footage. I use it with cine modded R lenses and the lenses and sensor work well together. I will say though that it has some problems. The white balance bounces all over the place even when set to a specific Kelvin, and I've had some weird color shifts in shadows that are hard to fix in post. I've taken it to Leica and they've re-installed firmware, etc. and the same thing keeps happening. A friend had a similar issue with his sl2s. The files are pretty hard to push around too in my experience. And the auto focus is completely unusable for professional work. I don't ever use autofocus for video but it has boned me so many times for photos with the 24-70 in high contrast situations or backlit where it wont land on anything and the moment is gone. In my opinion, if you are using it only as a video camera, the fx3 with m or r glass is far superior. Plus the weight over a long day adds up.
p.s. This sensor is actually made by Sony. Calibrated in Wezler, but still. Every sensor after the m10 is made by Sony. Canon is the only company that makes their own now.
Did the same, bought the SL2-s with SL Summicron 50mm (non-apo) a few weeks ago, 6:54 to complement my M10P. Love the SL and can recommend the SL 50mm.
I think they booth look good. The Sony Siii to me looks a lot cleaner at a higher ISO but the SL2 isn't bad. I prefer the color out of the SL2 but again that's because I'm seeing them both side by side.
I love the pompous involuntary Red Dot 🔴 talk lol I have the SL2 and happens all the time. The notion “it’s a Leica” is true. And this is me loving a lot of other camera brands that I also own. Nikon, Pentax, micro 4/3rds like LUMIX and Olympus. Owning a Hassy I bet it’s the same as red dot
I thought it was fairly close but the Leica had more pleasing color. I would give the slightest edge to the Leica through most of the ISO range but the Sony did better at 50,000. If the auto focus in lower light is good enough on the Leica then I think it wins. I think an SL3-S with phase detect would be the best possible scenario with a tilt screen as well.
I agree with @lukasvanderlende as I use my SL2-S up to around 25000 but can see me using it higher now if needed. Though its my main photo camera, because the EVF is so fantastic IMO and I honestly havent missed my m240 as much as I thought I would. Leica colors are fantastic but I dont trust the AF on my sl2s for video as much as Id like so Im keeping my XH2s until the next rendition of SL bodies. Looking forward to whats to come from Leica for certain. Great video
The EVF is the best I've ever seen. I used the camera in not-so-great lighting with video and it did struggle a bit to keep up with AF. But for me, that's a rarity.
Sure above 12xxx and above the A7Siii is superior, but the SL2-S doesn't look bad and very usable. And if people see the footage not comparing, but watching a story, the noise becomes irrelevant, since you were able to get the shot instead of nothing. Since you are moved into the M and now SL system, selling the Q is a logically consequence. But it served Leica's purpose :) My theory is still the Q-system is the gateway from Leica to get a taste of the Leica medicine and sooner or later people will be curious about other Leica systems. I also have a small M system next to the Q3 and that was NOT planned, it was just curiousity which unveiled an amazing experience. It was very fun to watch your Leica journey this year and looking forward for more in the next year :) The SL2 looks amazing, but body and lens size + weight keeps me away from this expensive experiment :D
I sold the Q2 to get the SL2S, and I'm glad I made the move. The SL2S fills the needs that I have much better than the Q2 did. I loved the Q2, but a single lens and the hybrid system of kind of feeling like an M and kind of feeling like any other digital camera a bit just didn't work for me in the long run. I prefer the M, and when I need autofocus, I prefer something with a varied lens set. But yes, the SL2S is so heavy, and with a Leica lens on it.... it's way too heavy to carry around all the time for videos. Going to need to plan better haha.
I couldn't help myself buying film cameras and to test all my vintage lenses I bought a Sony A7RIII camera. I'm pretty happy about the results but Sony just couldn't immerse me into photography in such a way that I stopped thinking about buying another camera. Here is why having a system motivate you to take the camera out and shoot really does matter, and Leica freaking does that.
At the lower iso the Leica has better skin tones but i like the green plants and the tattoos better on the Sony. Higher iso the sony looks better around Leica looks a little wash out. I am watching it on a iPhone 13, so its hard to tell a big difference. Thanks for the video brother
I think the Leica colors and DR were better overall. I don't know if it's the conversion LUTS in Resolve or if it's truly how it looks, but the Leica footage was more even and colorful.
In the highest ISO, i think the Sony is much better. But man, the Leica looks damn good. And i thought Sony was miles ahead with the S Lineup. Now you have to figure out, if the Leica handles the way you want it and if it fits your needs.
I am absolutely no expert in video and even on 4K full screen I really can't see much noise on either camera. The contrast is going up on both and the highlights start to wash out at higher ISO. However it is difficult to declare a winner since the Leica shows more contrast and a slight more greenish tint from the beginning which obviously contributes to the dynamic range effects (especially comparing the blue lighting on the left side of the face and the skin highlights). My 2cts: The Leica shows more contrast and a more blue toning from the start, while the Sony is more red. Increasing ISO reduces dynamic range. The Sony manages to control this artifacts better (as said - it all can be an impact of the baseline color/contrast) - may be by one stop or so. In a contrasty lighting situation as sampled I would see an 1-2 stop advantage for the Sony in the blues and skin highlights, but for noise both cameras look flawless to me.
something is not clear with your rec709 conversion. The color space is correct as you do it but the gamma should not be left to timeline. For the leica you should set it to whatever Leica is using for its own log curve and for the output you should set it to the gamma of your monitor ( 2.2 for a computer monitor and 2.4 for a video monitor). Also the Tone mapping and Gamut mapping should not be left as they are and they play a important role with how the highlights (tone) and the high saturated part of the image (Gamut) will look more or less smooth.
@@davidherring also make sure the OOTF options are correct. Forward when transforming from a log space to a display, Inverse if from a rec 709 in camera to a log , leave it unchecked if transforming from a log to a different log space
I find the 50,000 ISO on the SL2S to be better than the A7siii 51,200 ISO without noise reduction. Especially on photo images, it doesn't destroy the image as badly as sony and with 24MP! Can't fight Sony higher than 100,000 though.
@@davidherring It is quite mind-blowing, there's a fellow youtuber who has done this test comparison. You could check it out, the next closest competitor was the Lumix S5. Quite shocking results especially when the A7siii was the benchmark of all low light consumer level camera. ruclips.net/video/mHAShRfTgbA/видео.html
I totally understand the Leica appeal but the Sony imageto me was far superior even at lower ISO. It’s a flatter image and the highlight roll off is better. This is especially noticeable with the highlights under your wife’s left eye. Much better with Sony. I think the Sony image will hold up to color grading better. Just my 2 cents.
I think they both look great and useful throughout the range. No regular viewer would discern an objectionable difference, IMO. The prize goes to your lovely wife for patiently indulging you. Love the channel.
Haha truth! She sat there while I went through all these ISO stops haha
Excellent review, the colour reproduction of the Leica is the winner for me, the noise at higher ISO's was surprisingly good
Thanks for sharing. I agree!
Impressed with how the sl2s held up against the a7siii. Obviously in higher iso the a7siii pulls ahead, but not as much as I was expecting. I’m keeping my limit at 25000 with my SL2S. I never think about upping iso, I’d rather get the shot than not get it. Great video
Yeah it definitely held up better than I expected. After further playing around in my studio, I think the Leica at 800 is a beautiful look, and that's what I'm aiming for with studio shooting. This camera is so heavy I'm still trying to figure out how to use it on the go haha
Thanks for the video Dave! I'm looking forward to seeing where you take us next!
Thank you!
The punch in the contrast and color saturation on the Leica is insanely better. That's just crazy.
Right?!
The Sony had a pink cast more noticeable at the lower ISO's than the Leica, so if your wife has a pink complexion then the Sony was better. To my eye the Leica was marginally better at 1600, but above that the Leica was hands down better at handling the noise. An excellent experiment, and I like your strategy of kit migration...better to take your time and get what you need first and want second. Wish you the best going full Leica.
Thanks man!
Freaking love my SL2S.
I did a shoot yesterday with it and was blown way by the SL2S + Leica 24-70 combo.
Just added the SL2S and shot it along side my Sony at my last event in Uruguay. The low light was so good, but....to autofocus in lowlight....kind of just kept grabbing the Sony to ensure I got the shot. However, during the day walking around shooting the SL2-S....such a better experience, love the colors and files I got out of it, and enjoyed shooting it SO MUCH MORE. I am really hoping the SL3-S at some point that follows the SL-3 will have improved autofocus, especially in low light, and still maintain the lowlight performance and I could see a full jump from Sony into Leica for the event projects I shoot. I know nothing about video though so ;)
I got this camera for video, and so far the autofocus has been great. Then again, I’m not shooting in low light. Time will tell!
Where’d you get those perfectly sized round black stickers to cover the red dot? I haven’t been able to find one that fits that good!
Link in the “Leica Photographers are a Different Class” video I just did!
I picked up a used SL2-S after hearing great things about it. It was simply too big to replace my A7SIII and the combination of Sony's AF system, size, and low-light performance made it impossible to replace.
It is insanely heavy for sure. Trying to figure out how to use this for video outside of my studio.
Dave I used leica m film cameras from 1971 on and to me it was all about the lenses. In digital I went from a Ricoh GXR with the leica module for a couple of years and then wanted back into FF. I then used a RX-1 for 4 years and then picked up a a7s body and used all my M lenses on it. After that I got a Sigma fp odd but fun camera and also used my M lenses on it, loved the color out of the Sigma. Have since added a a9 all these cameras I picked up used when I found a good deal on them, still have my M lenses but have started to add Zeiss Batis lenses. These days you can't really go wrong with anything you use. Whatever makes you feel good go for it....
I agree, it all just comes down to what inspires you to use it!
They both look fine to me on my iPad even at the highest iso. I’m surprised!
Same!
After a few years of video with drones I was seeing all my camera equipment (sony) ..a nice set but ...the dealer said, try Leica. So I bought a LEICA SL2-S "Reporter" and my desire to photograph came back. Sony will have incredible AF (AFC) but photographing with the LEICA feels good. I just upgraded the firmware to version 6 and hope they still introduce improvements and don't abandon the development of improvements/optimizations now that the SL3 is out.
I don't disagree, the Leica feels best. For the work I was doing though with video, I needed better autofocus. It just didn't work out for me.
Question, have you considered LUMIX? Specifically the S5 II/X? The S5 cameras have dual gain are excellent hybrid cameras and outstanding video cameras. Considering LUMIX and Leica are L Mount members compatibility between lenses is guaranteed. The S series cameras have been said to have that Leica look also. I may be a bit biased though since I use an S5 II. 😅
I haven't, but I really consider resell values for our business because of depreciation / taxes. Leica has high resale values, which keeps equity in the business, and buying used Leica gear means I can sell it for what I have in it. It's unfortunately not like that in other brands.
Bought my Q2M from Tim Lei and considering the SL2or SL2-S. Good guy
Nice! Tim is great!
I had Sony (and FUJIFILM) too before I switched to Leica. It was an attrition rate of 2 to 2.5 Sony lenses sold to buy one Leica lens. As you know the cost for entrance in the system is a hard nut to crack. I had the SL2S as well and eventually sold it for the S5IIx which is newer and better AF. Now I have 3 M cameras a bunch of M glass and L mount Panasonic for video.
Nice! I'm not sure where I'll land in the next 6 months or so but I'm ready to land this transition plane and move on haha.
I’m a big Leica M and Q shooter. I get what you mean it’s hard to go back to anything else. But in terms of video and flexibility the A7Siii is a beast. I’m patiently waiting for the SL3 though, but it will have to have a flip screen of some sort to win me over. It’ll have a tough task to beat my FX3 which is what I use for all my video work.
Sold the Q2 to get this, and I like it a lot. But yes, the SL3 must have a flip screen, phase auto focus, and the tri-res sensor and it will be the best camera Leica has produced.
@@davidherringagreed!
I've had the Leica sl2s for two years now and have done some pick up shots with it that matched perfectly with Alexa footage. I use it with cine modded R lenses and the lenses and sensor work well together. I will say though that it has some problems. The white balance bounces all over the place even when set to a specific Kelvin, and I've had some weird color shifts in shadows that are hard to fix in post. I've taken it to Leica and they've re-installed firmware, etc. and the same thing keeps happening. A friend had a similar issue with his sl2s. The files are pretty hard to push around too in my experience. And the auto focus is completely unusable for professional work. I don't ever use autofocus for video but it has boned me so many times for photos with the 24-70 in high contrast situations or backlit where it wont land on anything and the moment is gone. In my opinion, if you are using it only as a video camera, the fx3 with m or r glass is far superior. Plus the weight over a long day adds up.
p.s. This sensor is actually made by Sony. Calibrated in Wezler, but still. Every sensor after the m10 is made by Sony. Canon is the only company that makes their own now.
@ToddRitondaro this is an unconfirmed rumor if I remember correctly. But probably.
Did the same, bought the SL2-s with SL Summicron 50mm (non-apo) a few weeks ago, 6:54 to complement my M10P. Love the SL and can recommend the SL 50mm.
Thanks for sharing!
@@AIP404 it came almost for free with the body.
I think they booth look good. The Sony Siii to me looks a lot cleaner at a higher ISO but the SL2 isn't bad. I prefer the color out of the SL2 but again that's because I'm seeing them both side by side.
With dual base, it's no surprise that the SIII is cleaner. The stops resets at 12800 which is really nice.
I love the pompous involuntary Red Dot 🔴 talk lol I have the SL2 and happens all the time. The notion “it’s a Leica” is true. And this is me loving a lot of other camera brands that I also own. Nikon, Pentax, micro 4/3rds like LUMIX and Olympus. Owning a Hassy I bet it’s the same as red dot
Thanks for sharing.
I thought it was fairly close but the Leica had more pleasing color. I would give the slightest edge to the Leica through most of the ISO range but the Sony did better at 50,000. If the auto focus in lower light is good enough on the Leica then I think it wins.
I think an SL3-S with phase detect would be the best possible scenario with a tilt screen as well.
Thanks for sharing!
I agree with @lukasvanderlende as I use my SL2-S up to around 25000 but can see me using it higher now if needed. Though its my main photo camera, because the EVF is so fantastic IMO and I honestly havent missed my m240 as much as I thought I would. Leica colors are fantastic but I dont trust the AF on my sl2s for video as much as Id like so Im keeping my XH2s until the next rendition of SL bodies. Looking forward to whats to come from Leica for certain. Great video
The EVF is the best I've ever seen. I used the camera in not-so-great lighting with video and it did struggle a bit to keep up with AF. But for me, that's a rarity.
Sure above 12xxx and above the A7Siii is superior, but the SL2-S doesn't look bad and very usable. And if people see the footage not comparing, but watching a story, the noise becomes irrelevant, since you were able to get the shot instead of nothing.
Since you are moved into the M and now SL system, selling the Q is a logically consequence. But it served Leica's purpose :) My theory is still the Q-system is the gateway from Leica to get a taste of the Leica medicine and sooner or later people will be curious about other Leica systems. I also have a small M system next to the Q3 and that was NOT planned, it was just curiousity which unveiled an amazing experience.
It was very fun to watch your Leica journey this year and looking forward for more in the next year :)
The SL2 looks amazing, but body and lens size + weight keeps me away from this expensive experiment :D
I sold the Q2 to get the SL2S, and I'm glad I made the move. The SL2S fills the needs that I have much better than the Q2 did. I loved the Q2, but a single lens and the hybrid system of kind of feeling like an M and kind of feeling like any other digital camera a bit just didn't work for me in the long run. I prefer the M, and when I need autofocus, I prefer something with a varied lens set. But yes, the SL2S is so heavy, and with a Leica lens on it.... it's way too heavy to carry around all the time for videos. Going to need to plan better haha.
Wait 4 months ;-)
Lol
I couldn't help myself buying film cameras and to test all my vintage lenses I bought a Sony A7RIII camera. I'm pretty happy about the results but Sony just couldn't immerse me into photography in such a way that I stopped thinking about buying another camera. Here is why having a system motivate you to take the camera out and shoot really does matter, and Leica freaking does that.
💯
Hi Dave, I love the Leica and thinks it performs better up to 12800 ISO. From there the Sony takes over. My thought.
Yeah I like the way it looks for sure!
At the lower iso the Leica has better skin tones but i like the green plants and the tattoos better on the Sony. Higher iso the sony looks better around Leica looks a little wash out. I am watching it on a iPhone 13, so its hard to tell a big difference. Thanks for the video brother
I think the Leica colors and DR were better overall. I don't know if it's the conversion LUTS in Resolve or if it's truly how it looks, but the Leica footage was more even and colorful.
In the highest ISO, i think the Sony is much better. But man, the Leica looks damn good.
And i thought Sony was miles ahead with the S Lineup.
Now you have to figure out, if the Leica handles the way you want it and if it fits your needs.
Agreed!
I am absolutely no expert in video and even on 4K full screen I really can't see much noise on either camera. The contrast is going up on both and the highlights start to wash out at higher ISO.
However it is difficult to declare a winner since the Leica shows more contrast and a slight more greenish tint from the beginning which obviously contributes to the dynamic range effects (especially comparing the blue lighting on the left side of the face and the skin highlights). My 2cts: The Leica shows more contrast and a more blue toning from the start, while the Sony is more red. Increasing ISO reduces dynamic range. The Sony manages to control this artifacts better (as said - it all can be an impact of the baseline color/contrast) - may be by one stop or so. In a contrasty lighting situation as sampled I would see an 1-2 stop advantage for the Sony in the blues and skin highlights, but for noise both cameras look flawless to me.
It's definitely there, with Leica being a bit noisier... maybe 1-2 stops. But for my studio, I can control that.
something is not clear with your rec709 conversion. The color space is correct as you do it but the gamma should not be left to timeline. For the leica you should set it to whatever Leica is using for its own log curve and for the output you should set it to the gamma of your monitor ( 2.2 for a computer monitor and 2.4 for a video monitor). Also the Tone mapping and Gamut mapping should not be left as they are and they play a important role with how the highlights (tone) and the high saturated part of the image (Gamut) will look more or less smooth.
I’ll check it, thanks for the heads up!
@@davidherring also make sure the OOTF options are correct. Forward when transforming from a log space to a display, Inverse if from a rec 709 in camera to a log , leave it unchecked if transforming from a log to a different log space
Leica skin tones started looking pretty bad at higher iso. Let's not forget that the A7s3 goes up to 409000
It gets a little green as it goes higher.
I find the 50,000 ISO on the SL2S to be better than the A7siii 51,200 ISO without noise reduction. Especially on photo images, it doesn't destroy the image as badly as sony and with 24MP! Can't fight Sony higher than 100,000 though.
I never see that kind of ISO personally, but I agree - Leica is a better / more pleasing noise.
@@davidherring It is quite mind-blowing, there's a fellow youtuber who has done this test comparison. You could check it out, the next closest competitor was the Lumix S5. Quite shocking results especially when the A7siii was the benchmark of all low light consumer level camera. ruclips.net/video/mHAShRfTgbA/видео.html
His video was one of the reasons I got the SL2S!
The Leica looks better throughout the whole range (color, contrast) imho. Leica looks more natural.
I thought so too!
I totally understand the Leica appeal but the Sony imageto me was far superior even at lower ISO. It’s a flatter image and the highlight roll off is better. This is especially noticeable with the highlights under your wife’s left eye. Much better with Sony. I think the Sony image will hold up to color grading better. Just my 2 cents.
Thanks for sharing!
The SL2-S moved me away from the M bodies.
I don’t ever see that happening because I love the M experience, but I really love the images out of this camera so far!
@@davidherring I hear ya but when I use 1.2 lenses on a nice 24mp sensor that excels in low light on a camera that has an amazing EVF...
Congratulations For getting rid of Sony 👏🎉
Ha I still have it 😅
two words... 'skin tones.' leica wins.
I don’t see a huge difference honestly.