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The Dirty Little Secret Of Church Giving Platforms
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- Опубликовано: 22 янв 2020
- Over the next few minutes, I want to pull back the curtain on the dirty little secret of church giving platforms. What I'm about to say is certainly going to upset some people...and to be honest, I have hesitated to publish this for that reason. But, as someone who works in this industry, what's clear to me is that the majority of churches don't understand what's actually happening - and so, my conviction is to explain that as best as I can. And then, it's up to you to do with that information what you wish.
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I used to process ACH payments for an insurance company back in the day when those fees weren't fees at all. It was just a tape transfer. I mentioned to my finance dept that there was something wrong with all these fees and I wasn't buying into the "cost of business" line. I had no idea that investors were a part of this but it makes sense when someone is looking into tapping into untapped markets for another revenue stream. Thanks for this video. I am definitely not happy with Pushpay and my finance dept is just now addressing record transfer problems. I actually want a refund for the trouble we have had. Again thank you.
I appreciate your willingness to share this information. My church is a little behind in the digital giving arena, but we made the switch last year to process payments online. I've ALWAYS felt like processing fees were taking too much of our donations, but I just thought that was the cost of doing business. I will share this with the rest of the leadership team so we can make switch to RebelGive. I can definately appreciate why your platform has that name! Thanks for all you do for the kingdom!
Rebelling against the current standard! That's right.
Thanks for the great video on this - I'm going to share this with a lot of places. I used to work in the processing industry mostly pre-internet times when everyone needed a terminal to process their cards. My managers used to push us to sell them as a lease, so the $600 terminal would be leased for $4000 in a non-cancellable, non-transferable, and personally guaranteed lease and the sales rep would walk away with $3400 just for one sale. EEEK I know - I quit rather quickly because of this. When we signed up Pushpay was the best of the rates we could get at the time, but I'm now very interested in looking at this platform too. Keep up the great vids!!!
I remember when I was first introduced to what was happening behind the scenes in the industry, Dan, and it truly shocked me. Crazy to think for how long it's been happening. Up to us to change it!
Push Pay seems to be our churches best bet, works flawlessly and the customer support team were great.
Thanks once again for being awesome! I just forwarded this link to our director of operations. I'd like to say that I'm your biggest fan but I think there's a long, long line of biggest fans out there!!!! :-) So thankful for you and ProChurch Tools!!
Kris Scherer Thanks, Kris! 🙏
I appreciate your providing more transparency on how these fee structures work. Unfortunately, our church is small enough and has so few digital giving transactions, that your fixed monthly fee would cost us far more than the transaction fees charged by others. Hopefully, some day we will be large enough to benefit from your fee structure and I wish your company well.
I'd welcome you to check out The Nucleus Giveback Guarantee - specifically made for smaller churches like yours; if Nucleus doesn't save you more money than it costs, we'll giveback the difference: www.nucleus.church/guarantee
As a pre-launch church plant using the PCO services, we did feel like their rate was reasonable, especially considering it's integrated with the rest of the apps. The part about ACH was helpful and I'll definitely try to educate our givers about it. And who knows if we might switch at some point in the future.
Thank you guys for providing this option for the Body. Very refreshing.
Troy Miller as far as I know, PCO is the only other service that doesn’t participate in the giving tax. We’re aligned on that front. 🙏
Mywell.org is similar in their mission in offering payment processing at cost to churches.
@@mcgilligan09 Thanks for bringing that to my attention, Brad. That's excellent! The more companies that are ditching rev-share the better :)
So it still seems like as long as a church’s operating budget is less than $240,000 per year, it makes more fiscal sense to pay the 1%.
$100, cost per month for rebel give, is 1% of $10,000 dollars per month. If $10,000 dollars per month is 50% of our giving, then our giving is $20,000 dollars per month. Thus if our church’s total budget is less than $240,000, theoretically receiving $120,000 per year from credit card transactions, then we save money by paying the 1%.
I’ll be honest, they only seem like crooks when they market their service as a blessing to the Kingdom. It is a service, and services cost money.
Forgive me, I'm not understanding your math. Are you saying it's cheaper to pay easytithe, for example, the 1% tax? Our church has an operating budget of 36k. 100% of our giving is online. So we take in 3k per month. Currently we have easytithe. they charge $10 per month flat rate, and 3% + $.39 per transaction. That works out to $104 per month. If we were getting 10k per month, we'd be paying easytithe somewhere in the ballpark of $300 per month. Rebel would be a third of that price
Very insightful. Thank you.
First let me say that I am doing the 30 day trial with Nucleus right now and it is amazing...no experience with building a website, and in about 8 hours I have an awesome site that blows our existing one out of the water. Pretty confident we will be going with Nucleus. Regarding what Brady is sharing here, let me first say I love the transparency and I don't disagree with anything stated here. Let me add, though, that there is a space for platforms with higher processing fees and little to no monthly charges, especially for smaller churches who do not have a lot of online giving, but do need to provide it for a segment of their congregation. The higher monthly platform fee can easily be more than the higher processing fees if the online giving is not large. Again, though, I think Brady does awesome work on behalf of churches and am thankful for all of the information he has provided me with as I am a new pastor here. So Brady, thank you for all of your content. I trust God's kingdom is the better for it.
Absolutely. No disagreement here. If a church is aware of the pricing and understands how the giving tax works and what they're getting themselves into - more power to them!
@@prochurchtools And I'm aware because you helped make me aware. Your charges are up front for all the world to know and see, and you seek to educate people so they can make the most informed decision. You, sir, are a man of integrity. God bless you and your work my brother.
Great information! Thank you so much, Brady! God bless you and you’re ministry.
SHARING THIS!
Appreciate your time and attention, Ed. 🙏
I have a question? How long does it take those donations to hit the church bank acct? This is another important variable to the equation. We currently have one of the companies you were mentioning, and we were already searching to change. This video has been very helpful. Thank you.
Thanks for that information but I do have a question, what about pay pal? Our church uses pay pal for giving and if you choose the option friends and family they don’t take anything free out or at least that’s what it looks like on the surface. Are familiar with pay pal process?
Maurice, using that feature as a church is against Paypal’s terms from what I’ve seen. But you can avoid fees by doing this is you send money from your bank account or PayPal balance.
Thanks and your right it is through my bank account
Awesome info! You guys truly have a heart for the church.
Hey Brady, thanks for the info. Did the change over for our church 18months ago, don't remember Rebel Give in my research. When did you guys start? Plus how come no link in the description :) Thanks!
We didn't put a link to RebelGive.com in the description because this video isn't meant to be a promo for RebelGive. It's just meant to be an informational video on rev-share.
As for the launch of our platform, we launched in April 2019. Pro Church Tools as a business has been in operation since 2014.
👏👏👏👏 glad to hear someone who is encouraging ministries to THINK through this! Churches can be so greedy to get money no matter what the cost!
I prefer etransfer directly to the church bank account. I pay an account fee to cover that but is there a hidden fee with etransfer?
Joyful Blessings No hidden fee with E-transfer!
Legally you can pass the fee on the the contributor so you don't rob both the giver of the gift they give and you don't rob the church of the gift given.
Dean Renfro Yeah. That’s what RebelGive does.
We're all behind you!
Thanks Brady.
🙏🙏🙏
Brady, this is awesome! Our church has wrestled with online giving because of the fees. You have struck a responsive chord with us. We are interested in setting up an ACH-only process. Can Rebel Give be adapted to only use ACH? We believe folks should give from what they have (bank balance), not from what they expect to have later (credit)!
Shoot us an email to hello@rebelgive.com!
We are a small church with mostly older members. I believe that only a small percentage would do online giving. Do you know the breakdown where it is better to pay a service fee then to pay individual charges?
Great question, Denise. We have a calculator here where you can put in all those numbers and run the math: www.rebelgive.com/savings. :)
Great video and platform! Is there any chance text-giving may be added in the future? I’ve seen the FAQ section on the topic, but our congregation’s giving is evenly split between traditional “plate giving” and digital giving - I’d say at least 95% of which is being sent in via text.
RebelGive would undoubtedly save us on fees, but I’d hate to throw an extra hurdle into the giving process that seems to be working for our people.
Text giving is something we may consider in the future. Though, it's not on the immediate roadmap. Compared to online giving, text giving is considerably less secure. And it doesn't allow for bank account giving - which is the ideal way for donors to give because it saves on the fees for every party.
Of course, if you're using a text giving service that simply texts you a link to give online - that would accommodate text giving. But at that point, you're just using a text link to go to a website - so why not just go straight to the website and remove the text hurdle.
Thanks for the reply! We’ll be discussing RebelGive in our staff meeting this week, so I wanted to make sure I have as much information as possible on hand. Our processor’s text giving feature is purely text based apart from the initial setup.
You’re correct that text giving is less secure than direct online giving, but we haven’t had any security issues in 3+ years of utilizing the service, and any issues that have arisen (accidental duplicates, incorrect amounts, etc) have been easily solved with refunds and minimal communication. Text giving seems to be the way our congregation prefers at the moment, but we’ll hash out additional details this week.
Thanks again for the reply! Love what y’all are doing to equip and assist churches.
Planning Center Giving also does not take any percentage on top of what stripe takes. Your rates are actually very similar to Planning center givings, what sets you apart from them?
Yeah, we shouted out PCO Giving on this post yesterday, because they don't participate in rev-share either: instagram.com/p/B78rCooDHw-/
As for differences, our credit card processing rate is lower (1.9% vs. 2.15% + $0.30 per transaction) as is our ACH processing fee (Free vs. $0.25 per transaction).
I’ve got to say my experience with Nucleus and RebelGive has been AWESOME. Brady and team are for servants for real. No joke. And the customer support is the best I’ve experienced. Thanks guys. I just brought our 60 year old church into the 21st century. Yippee
Means the world, Campbell. 🙏
Thank you, Brady. My church is transitioning to digital giving, and I haven't been happy with any of the numbers I've seen. I'll do my due diligence to study Rebel Give, but as long as what this video says is accurate (I'm sure it is), this will be the only software I recommend.
And like I say in the video, Matt, the main goal of this content isn't to convince you to use RebelGive, but rather to educate churches on the cost of rev-share. It's easy to get distracted by church apps, and text giving, and novelty features, and overlook what it will cost your church over the years if you commit to giving away a percentage of every gift you receive.
@@prochurchtools exactly.
This is a worthy fight to pick on behalf of churches.
Your video is good and the detail is appreciated but I have this one concern which may not be changeable on your part (I don't know). The concern is your name: RebelGive. As a bible-based church the idea of "rebel" speaks negatively to all that God tells us in scripture. It teaches us not to rebel or to be a rebel against God's principles. So your name will be a hard sell for my church. Again, I know that you probably can't do anything about that. Thanks anyway.
Brady, thank you very much for what you are doing, both for this info and the solution you are offering in RebelGive. It is scandalous to see how people from the outside are taking advantage of Christians and churches, seeing the offerings of God as a profit opportunity. The amount they are willing to invest is indicative of how lucrative this model is for them, their high expectations of increasing returns, and also their confidence that this is going to last for many years (future cash flows from the giving of Churches which are not going away from their platforms anytime soon). PE-backed Ministry Brands seems to be taking it to the extreme, growing by acquisitions to concentrate their position. Come on! Of course, there is a cost to everything in this modern, digitalized economy, but this is a bit too far, given the purpose of church giving. Go, Brady and ProChurch Team! God bless and keep you!
That's a pretty good summary. Appreciate that.
"And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the money changers, " These machines are not the same as donating cash in the basket or via direct debit as the terminal companies take a RIBIT from each donation
I don't think I like the idea of pushing fees to givers without an option.
That's why paying via ACH is so valuable - no percentage fees for anyone. 🙏
Can you take PayPal and Gpay? If not it's no good.
You guys are amazing! I love your heart for the kingdom:)
really appreciate y'all taking a stand on this. We've been with SecureGive for a while now, we actually really like them, but it looks like they are going to make some changes this year allowing givers to cover the swipe fees in their gift in response to the disruption y'all have caused. SCORE. noticed there is no info on their fees in your information though, why is that?
There are a myriad of church giving platforms - couldn't mention them all in this video. As it pertains to SecureGive, looking at their website in their fees section they state: "Flat rates that beat everyone out there. 1.5% to 1.75% + 30¢ for debit and 2.0% to 2.5% + 30¢ for credit."
I mean...that's demonstrably untrue. Forget RebelGive for a moment, virtually every major church giving provider charges less than SecureGive does for ACH transactions. So I'm not sure why they would make a claim that is obviously wrong.
They're also not listed on givingfees.com which we think is the best independent resource for seeing fees across different providers.
@@prochurchtools we totally get it. that looks about right, they gave us better rates than Pushpay.
there are no free lunches. "free" is never "free". You get what you pay for.
In Canada is rebel give able to provide interact donations ?
In America bank account giving is called ACH. In Canada it's called EFT. The process for EFT donations is different and more complex in some ways than ACH - basically, the processing companies haven't rolled this out yet so giving companies can't offer it yet. As soon as it becomes available on the processing side, we have the tech to launch it in Canada.
Pro Church Tools with Brady Shearer thanks so much! Appreciate you guys.
For this reason, I HOPE Givelify doesn't begin to implement these tactics. We've used them for 3 years now.
Givelify's pricing is 2.9% + $0.30 which is the same as most major church giving platforms.
On their site under the "What do the fees cover?" section it reads: "These fees help us cover the cost of processing each electronic transaction, maintaining a secure and safe environment for your transactions, and *improving features and benefits of the donation app.*"
That means they are participating in the same giving tax as others.
@@prochurchtools I guess i misunderstood the chart in your video. They don't charge a monthly fee though
Right. But they tax 1% of every gift your church receives - with no cap. Just like every other major church giving provider.
Shots fired!!
😬
This did not age well.
How so?
For real... Only thing keeping me from bringing this to our leadership is all the extra change going on with our church currently. Once the waters calm, making the switch to RebelGive will be FIRST on the online agenda. This is legit!
Looking forward to welcoming you to the platform 🙏
Wow😐
Yeah.
We guide our parishioers into using Zelle - no fees.
I agree and safer than an app.