@jonparshall , you always manage to bring some "extra special" to this podcast (and basically all other related programming, for that matter), even if it's by simply showing up and briefly sliding into the comments. Thank you for all that you do! I've heard you mention this in the past, but I dont recall exactly when and where, so I'm asking this publicly since I'm willing to bet that I'm not the only one interested: Are signed copies of 'Shattered Sword' still available? And if so, how would one go about procuring one? (I'd be remiss if I didn't pose the same question to Mr. Scott regarding his recent publicatiions as well, in case he happens to see this.) Thank you in advance; wishing you and the family, including your current CATDIV, all the best this coming winter up north!
This episode means much to me especially as my Dad was an 18 year old Seabee on Saipan, who unloaded bombs for the Superfortresses, dodged nightly Japanese air raids, and took his first airplane flight when a crew offered him to go up on a B-29 on a test flight of a plane with new engines. Bless all of you boys.
When still in high school I discovered Martin Caidin's "A Torch To The Enemy." This book stunned and shocked me by describing the incredible destruction caused by the fire-bombing raids. It changed my perspective on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. I came to understand that the incendiary raids were wiping out the cities no less than the atomic bombs did; the major difference being that with the nukes, it only took one plane in instead of hundreds. But the level of destruction was pretty much equivalent, and the dead were just as dead.
One of the hostages that Iran held during 1979 sent a letter home while captive asking for some Curtis LeMay stoneware, an oblique reference to Gen. LeMay's threat to send to an enemy back to the stone age. This was a dangerous request and would have incurred severe reprisals if the Iranian captors had understood what was being requested. This letter was kept secret until after the hostages were freed.
Perhaps proving tyrants and terrorists are not learning from history, thus condemned to a reputation of the demise of their predecessors. Great analysis gentleman. Thank you!
@@Heike-- Another fun fact.The Savak secret police was set up with the assistance of Norman Schwarzkopf Sr. who was both a newly retired US Army Major General and the former and first Chief of the New Jersey State Police (He designed their still used uniforms which have a very prussian look to them,perhaps based on his post WW1 Army posting as Provost Marshal for occupied Germany after WW1) The CIA looked to Schwarzkopf and his role in organizing the New Jersey State Police by having him organize the Savak for the Shah. Jimmy Carter didn't greenlight the Ayatollah. He was simply responding to the Church Committee in the US Senate which exposed years of CIA/FBI/NSA/IRS dirty deeds both overseas and domestically in the USA including drugging of US citizens and infiltrating civil rights groups and installing and toppling foreign governments including Iran. Jimmy Carter citing the need for transparency in US activities across the world,withheld US intelligence and military support from authoritarian regimes that had been anti-communist,but also had rampant human rights abuses. Jimmy Carter allowed the Shah to come to the US for cancer treatment and he abandoned his throne. The Ayatollah Khomeni who was in Paris was invited back by the intrem Iranian government which likely thought it could craft a power sharing agreement with Khomeni. Nobody could predict the ground swell of islamic fundamentalism sweeping Iran. Embassies may be neutral in fantasy land but nowhere else. They have always been locations of intelligence operations in a given country. The Germans where doing things in the US before the American entry into WW1 and the Japanese were doing things before Pearl Harbor. The Soviets were running ops in Washington and the US behind the Iron Curtain. Its recognized by international law hat storming an embassy is grounds for war. The Iranians just caught the US having pulled out of Vietnam 4 years before and President Carter not wanting to start another war and being aware that Iran was hostile to both the West which it saw as capitalist and imperialist and the Communist block which it saw as Godless. Carter didn't want to push the Iranians and their geostrategically important location on the Persian Gulf,into Soviet arms by bombing them.
Back in the mid-80's I worked with a man who was the gun operator for the two dorsal turrets on a B-29 flying missions over Japan. When asked what was the scariest moment he had on those raids he answered it was when he witnessed a flak shell pass completely through one of the wings of his plane, he was looking out through the glass blister on the top of the bomber, when it exploded about 100 feet above that wing. He said it left about a two foot hole in the wing and peppered the plane with shrapnel. Had that flak shell gone off any sooner it probably would have blown the wing off. He said it was a come to God moment for him.
Thank God for our military heroes. We can never repay them for the physical and psychological trauma that affected the survivors for the rest of their lives.
I always had an "academic" understanding of how devastating fire bombing truly was on a city built of paper and wood. I never, until today, really had that visceral understanding of how horribly destructive that fire bombing truly was. This podcast added that sense of reality to what otherwise would have only been another collection of words. It turned out not to be the actual words were, rather how they were delivered. This programming is nonpariel. I believe that I got the actual feeling that many Japanese citizens actually felt, right before they died. And ... suffocation was one modality I had never even considered. Thanks for letting me sit in the best classroom in the world that spoke about this subject.
My best friends father was heavily involved with the United States Air Force Association in the 1980's. At an association dinner his wife ended up sitting beside General LeMay. She was nervous to be sitting beside the gruff, tough (as woodpecker lips!) mastermind of Japan fire bombing but after some small talk they found a topic of mutual interest and really hit it off. The topic? Needlepoint. I'm serious.
When I was in Junior High, I found my mom's home town of Tsu in Jablonsky's Air War series. He stated that Tsu was the very first city in Japan targeted that had no strategic targets whatsoever. The first raid destroyed 75% of the city and it was 98% destroyed by the end of the war. So I asked my mom about it and she said, "Oh, that first raid was the worst! I was working at the airplane engine factory..." And I thought, well, so much for no strategic targets...
Man this has to be one of your best episodes so far! I had no idea the concept of strategic bombing went back to the 20s. I guess at this point, we've seen it work and seen it not work. Seth you really did your homework on this one--can't say enough about it! James Scott wow another great presentation. Bill great work also! Absolutely my go to for anything on the Pacific--thanks for all your hard work!!!!
In my humble opinion, due to the great loss of life and total destruction of Japanese cities,the older Japanese citizens wanted to and mostly dud erase WW2 from their memories because they didn't want to talk about or remember the destruction of their country.The moved forward because the past was just to painful.
Saw the B-29 "Fi-Fi" fly over my house on the way home from the Cleveland Air Show. She was only about 1500 to 2000 feet up. Even now, it was big and impressive as it rumbled over like the queen of the sky...
We've seen "Doc" up close at the Inyokern airport, which is a natural thing (coming to Inyokern) considering the plane was recovered from the range at NAWS China Lake just 10-15 miles away.
The March 9/10 Tokyo raid was horrible...However, it HAD to be done. I was born in Japan, stationed in Japan and have great affection for Japan, it's culture and people. My Dad too, participated in combat during WW2 in the Pacific, yet he too came to love Japan. This is reflected in spending over 9-years on 3 different tours in Japan. It pains me to this day thinking of the fire bombing of Japan. But, as sad is it was and still is...The bombing campaign had to be prosecuted to the end.
Seth, Captain Toti and Mr. Scott. I appreciate Mr. Scott's work very much having read Rampage and Target Tokyo, very well written. Thank you all gentlemen for your hard work (Captain Toti's tireless endeavors) in bringing this great & interesting history. You're appreciated.
It is worth noting when discussing the B-29, the tale of the "Battle of Kansas." The first 300 B-29's built were flown to Salina, KS and reworked. This was an order by Hap Arnold to fix the issues on the 29s. The planes were worked on 24 hours a day, seven days a week in all kinds of weather. This was to put in place much needed modifications that came along after these three hundred bombers had begun construction. Great show as always.
The turbo-compound Wright R-3350 engines for the B-29 and many postwar airliners was nowhere near ready for deployment in 1943-44. The problems were finally solved a few years after WW2 ended. When jets appeared in numbers over Korea, the B-29 was forced into night operations again.
In 1968 I was in I Corps in Vietnam with the 1st Cav as a helicopter pilot. I was 20 years old until just before the November election. I watched a lot of American kids die in combat while Johnson played bomb-don't bomb-North Vietnam. Lemay was running for Vice President with George Wallace and I voted for them for one reason. Lemay said he would bomb North Vietnam back to the stone age. They lost to Nixon and for several more years they played games with North Vietnam while more American kids died. In 1973 Nixon B-52 bombed North Vietnam and presto the POWs were returned and we, the U.S., pulled out.
I was in high school when Saigon fell, but I'd watched the news with interest when the Linebacker strikes were going on. The enemedia dutifully reported the communist north's line about easily shooting down Buffs. Oddly, less than a week later, the Vietnamese communists showed up hats in hand in Paris begging for "peace." Shortly after Ford stepped in when Nixon stepped out, the North Koreans murdered a US Army Lieutenant and a couple of ROK troops in the DMZ. Ford sent B-52s to South Korea to quite the situation down. The enemedia talking heads began gibbering about "gunboat diplomacy," and the Norks began huffing and puffing about shooting Buffs down like flies. But, shortly after the B-52s landed in South Korea, the North Korean commies backed down. Fast forward a couple of years, I was given a stack of Aviation magazines, they were about general aviation stuff. I was more interested in military aviation, but I discovered a column written by a retired intelligence officer, most of his columns made light of Soviet and other communist countries stupidity, and were extremely funny. One, concerning the situation in Korea described above, said that, whenever there was a communist revolutionary victory, the victorious commies would send off representatives to advise other communist nations on how to improve their revolutionary system. According to the columnist, the Vietnamese dutifully sent their contingent to North Korea, roughly about the same time the B-52s showed up. The North Koreans began to brag to the Vietnamese how they would shoot down the Buffs, just like they had, but the Vietnamese took them to the side and basically said: "look, when the US sends B-52s, it's time to STFU...
I had a very hard morning of work lined up today - listening to today's podcast made it fly by in an instant. Thank you, fascinating as always and very educational. Haywood Hansel was completely unknown to me, I can't wait to learn more
A friend from church was an airman at the Turner Air Force Nike Base in Albany, GA back in the 60,s. During the Cuban Missile Crisis, General LeMay flew in for a refuling. My friend and another who were assigned to guarding the air strip quickly informed the General he had to extinguish his cigar or leave the area. Cigar extinguished and both airmen were promoted on the spot.
My father, William Bush, was assigned to the 315th Bomber Wing, North Airfield, Guam. He was a B-29 ground crew radar technician who arrived in theater in early May 1945 and was stationed in Guam until the spring of 1946. He didn't talk much about his experiences in the war. His most common story was about how he once repaired a balky radar set on a B-29 by kicking it after all other methods failed. Thanks for the stories. I have been watching your weekly podcasts since Season One.
@davidbush697 As a former Air Force radar technician, I can attest to the efficacy of a well place swat by a combat boot or BFH* in convincing something involving radar to behave properly! * Big F#&*@$g Hammer
Still a thing. We did the same thing during the GWOT on our C-130's. A seat rod was probably the most used tool we had. The theory being "It's already broken, so we get it working again, or have a good reason to get a new one."
My dad's outfit was 501st, (of the 20th AF), bombardment squadron, they targeted the oil refineries. They also flew night time and bad weather missions, all the guns were removed except the tail guns, which had either 3 .50 cals, or two .50s and a 20mm cannon. There was a "radar ball" extended from the tail, which would catch anything approaching from the rear. And since they were not in formation, it was most likely an enemy fighter. They had an 18' 180° radar "wing" in front of the forward bombay, that is how they navigated and bombed. The first group in would drop incendiaries, the next group would drop heavy explosives, to spread the fires...they won a battle star for their destruction of the refineries, and one for not losing a plane in combat. And a presidential unit citation with oak leaf cluster. They also flew the last mission of the war, to the largest refinery.
Another quality episode, thanks for all the effort you put into these shows. And a shoutout to the excellent 9/11 presentation by Captain Totti; it's definitely recommended viewing for everyone who can handle the emotional impact of the story--it's tough, but important to hear the story of someone who was directly involved in the less-publicized Pentagon side of the 9/11 story. Greetings and gratitude from Northeast Ohio!
My ex-boss was navigator on the B-29 raids. Years after the war he went to Japan to see the nation firsthand. They must have given him uppers to keep him alert during the long flight. It affected his demeanor a bit but did not impact his health as far as I know. This was one of the best of your series on the Pacific War. Yes, it told the story of fire bombing at the end of the conflict and how it set the stage for the A-bomb attacks that finally ended the fighting. Such comprehensive explanations are just not available without extensive research and your expert guest was tremendous. The story you told was painful but covered a lot of details and left the door open to explore the occupation from both sides of the conflict and leads up to the current situation in East Asia which has complete relevance to our world today. Thanks.
This podcast is always so great to listen to. I look forward to it every week. Seth and Bill do such a great job each week. The guests you have are always interesting. My grandfather served in the Pacific aborad the USS Anteres. Some of the episodes really help me better understand the overall picture in the Pacific.
Yet another GREAT episode--thanks to you all for putting out great information to the masses. Seth, your personal insight to so many of the heroes of WWII is amazing!
Yesterday I awoke at 5 AM as usual’ at 6:30 AM I started looking for the new unauthorized History of the Pacific War. After 30 min of not finding the new material I released it was Monday! So disappointed! But today I am happy!
Clearly, Lemay was not only somewhat controversial, but a hard , hard man. Willing to do whatever it took to win. And men like that seldom have a good reputation to the public. But in times of war, such men are much needed. Look at how bomber Harris was treated after the war. Even Churchill threw him straight under the bus at wars end. (Churchil was also threw away at wars end). Another GREAT show guys. Very interesting and insightful. 🇺🇸SALUTE🇺🇸😊
At about 5 minutes Seth says asking for agreement if the strategic bombing shortened the war. The answer was yes. The starvation part of the alternative method to defeat Japan was already well under way due to submarine interdiction of moving food. The strategic bombing accelerated the surrender, sparing the full effect of mass starvation in Japan. It saved millions of lives by getting US food to the Japanese civilians, which started immediately after the surrender with idled bombers dropping food instead of bombs.
I'm very excited to be listening to this, as I find this topic so fascinating and the Pacific War itself fascinating to learn about. I'm currently reading Whirlwind by Barrett Tillman which chronicles the Air War over Japan. I'm also reading Mr Scott's The War Below. I'll be looking forward to reading his Black Snow and his other books as well. Great topic and episode gentlemen!!
I studied under Dr. Russell Weigley in college 30+ years ago and first heard the theory that the A bomb basically did with one plane what was being done by the fleet of planes of earlier raids. It's a great compliment to the knowledge of the historians here that they confirmed what I was taught and have always felt. Thank you for another excellent episode.
Captain , as you are very aware, your uncle may also have been a victim of Italian AAA . My dad was a Seabee Chief in the Solomons and New Guinea. He stated he was more afraid of the friendly Anti-aircraft debris returning to earth than the actual Japanese bombing. Either way, so sad to hear about your italian uncles demise during the war.
Thanks to all three of you for yet another informative episode. You explained the campaign, the men involved, and the multifaceted problems they faced very well. It's a very politically, tactically, and strategically complicated subject and you explained it well in under two hours. I think that people who espouse the theory that the decision to drop the atomic bomb was ethically wrong are ignoring the fact that it likely saved the lives of the millions of Japanese who would have certainly been killed had the invasion been necessary.
Suggestion -- When (hopefully not for awhile) the Pacific was is completely covered, it will be time for "Unauthorized history of the European War Podcast."
Second to Bill's recommendation of Dr. Strangelove. My Uncle was a B-29 crewman. He was shot down over Japan and a confirmed POW. Family lore is that he was used as a human shield and killed by a subsequent B-29 raid.
It's a sidebar, but it should be remembered that while Hap Arnold staked his career on the B-29, he *did* throw money at a backup option: the Consolidated B-32 Dominator. The Dominator took longer to develop, and it had more issues; but there was an option in place for a strategic bombing campaign against Japan, had the B-29 program somehow failed. Some actually did fly combat missions in the Pacific as part of the the 386th Bomb Squadron in June 1945 onward.
Bill, thank you for your insight as to the "bomber mafia" lasting into the sixties and I would say even into the seventies, because of our dependence on ICBMs for "MAD." [Love the "Dr Strangelove" reference].
I believe it was in another of your podcasts you made the point that the final motives for the surrender were the atomic bombs, the Russian invasion of Manchuria, and the worry of social collapse from the effects of starvation and the strategic bombing of cities. Hard tactics, but it worked
One aspect, or maybe a related aspect, to the strategic bombing campaign that I wish got more coverage was the sea mining missions and all the technology and political effort that went into even doing it. The results are difficult to understand without a detailed analysis. I’d like to hear your take on it.
The mining campaign was crucial, but it doesn't make for sexy videos or high click counts. Consider that German and Soviet logistics near the battlefield were heavily reliant on horses and mules. Good luck finding videos on the topic beyond one on WW2TV by Woody. Same with the Lend Lease Western Route which hauled half the US supplies to the USSR through the Sea of Japan from 1942 -45.
Japan had two on-going nuclear programs and one bio-weapons program by 1945. Post war intelligence interrogated the Japanese involved in these programs. One of the questions asked of the Japanese was whether they would actually USE these weapons on Americans. The Japanese were shocked by this question. "Of course!" they answered in disbelief at the asking of the question. If this episode seems disgusting and ruthless, well, losing the war would be a far more horrendous than the winning of it. William Tecumseh Sherman...."War is the remedy that our enenies have chosen, and I say let us give them all they want." War ain't nice. It was a world war and a total war. There really was no such thing as a "civilian" or an "innocent"..
Amen !!! If the rolls were reversed. The U.S.A. would have been flatted and depopulated by horrific means. I have lived in Japan, and I can easily say I love the Japanese people. But I have met people (both a American and Japanese) that are totally ignorant of the facts. If the war had continued the numbers of dead for both sides was going to be in the millions. And I would most likely not be here. My Father was 1st MARINE DIVISION WWII. (I am third generation MARINE CORPS) War is and should be horrific. And any and all so called leaders of nations should have to see it and smell it up close and personal.
In Vietnam, the US Airforce was not allowed to hit the cities. It was like playing baseball wearing handcuffs. Since the submarine force contributed next to nothing in Vietnam I am very surprised you used Vietnam as an example.
Growing up more than a few of my friends older brothers died in Vietnam, and their wasn't ANY THANK YOU...BS.. Watch the old TV showes. The psycho villan was portrayed as A VIETNAM VET.
My Dad flew "Dumbo" missions during the strategic bombing campaign, and by wars end his sqdn (6thERS) had moved from Saipan to Iwo Jima to Okinawa. He was flying the B-17G with a lifeboat carried under the belly.
Skunk at a Family Reunion....lol. Remindes me of my trip from LZ Sally in I Corp to DaNang in August 1969 to go on RnR. I was in torn, dirty unpolished boots, dirty helmet, My M16 on my shoulder, clean camos but mussed up. I landed at DaNang, I was so shocked, we landed at LAX airport in Los Angeles....that was my impression of D.N. I only saw solid buildings, no dirt, only cement everywhere. I walked to a building, and everybody was starring at me like I was the hated step son. They were all dressed in ironed fatigues, polished new boots, no weapons, all spit n polished. They were freaking out by me being that way. CPT BILL, just a note. K-rations were WW2, C rations Vietnam. MRE's Desert Storm. SGT DOUG, RECON, 1/502, 101st ABN, RVN 68-69, LZ SALLY
My dad was an Intelligence officer with the 20th Air Force and with the 1st B-29 group to the Asia theatre. He had, now lost, aerial photos of the before and after of the Tokyo fire bombing. He was in the room when LeMay announced the low level raids. He flew over the surrender signing in a B-29.
Solid content Damage asessment was unhindered. If the japanese could not send flak or fighters to oppose the bomber raid, much less they would be able to do so the next morning aginst a high speed reconnaissance flight. This fed and reinforced the "spreadsheet" mind set
I hope you guys at least mention the Battle of Wichita at some point. It's a bit too early in the timeline for this episode but it's one of the lesser known but fascinating stories of WWII.
Just wondering what your opinion is of the post war Tokyo portrayed in Godzilla Minus One? Also, what you thought of the battle between the Takao and Godzilla?
The B29 demonstrated the rapid technological advancement in US aircraft design and introduction to service in WWII. One of the 'positive' aspects of war is the very rapid development in technology, e.g. radar and jet propulsion. Very interesting episode.
I believe that in 1964, General Curtis LeMay, the Chief of Staff of the US Air Force, was the reason the AR-15 platform was adopted by all branches of the military. The Air Force was the first branch to purchase, and use them.
In your general introduction about strategic bombings (is there a difference with terror bombings...!?), you could have mentioned the May 14, 1940 Rotterdam bombing the day after which the Netherlands capitulated. Also the German bombings in Polen the very first day of WWII especially Warsaw and Wielun. Or Dunkirk from the 24th of May. And of course Guernica during the Civil War in Spain, the Luftwaffe rehearsal ground.
One side note, in the 1930’s Babe Ruth, Lou Gerigh and a catcher named Cohen who was with the state dept took pictures of Japan and it showed that the structures where made out of wood while barnstorming on their baseball tour, which led TO THE FIREBOMBING later in the war.
I may be early commenting, but Lemay was an accomplished pilot and navigator before he got his stars. He understood the problem from being familiar with it.
Amazing as always, and hopefully Bill got some much deserved rest afterwards. Obviously not the target for B-29s, but when fighters were going after targets of opportunity on the way home or with the carrier raids was agricultural production targeted, or was the destruction of the transportation enough to further the starvation strategy? I recall British wartime films warning farmers about the danger of butterfly bombs dropped onto fields.
You know, it's good to bring up the fact that the government of Japan is on the hook for what happened. All these revisionist who want to paint America and the allies in a bad light completely forget about that fact that the government of Japan (and Germany) could have called "uncle" at any time, but they chose not to. We were not the aggressors in this war.
Hansel sounded like an honest football coach that gave a presser, which his team got beat badly and put the partial blame on himself. In doing so, Possum got run over. Great insights for this episode, guys.
Some context on the "bomber mafia" of the early Cold War. Between about 1945 and the end of the Korean War circa 1953, the West had no effective defence against the USSR. Not only was there no chance of defending Europe, but US air forces could do little to the USSR in retaliation except destroy some Soviet industry - and the Soviets would gain much more by their conquests than they would lose to bombing. For example, it was calculated that the Allies dropped the equivalent of 500 fat man bombs on Germany in the course of the air war; there were 330 (roughly equivalent) bombs in the US arsenal in 1950 and 878 in 1953. After 1953, the crash Western rearmament gave some prospect of defending Europe, IF the Allies used their nuclear superiority to its full advantage. There was some attempt in 1952 to come up with a conventional ground and air force capable of actually stopping the Soviets on its own, but this was almost immediately written off as politically impossible. Nevertheless, by switching to heavier reliance on nuclear weapons between the early 1950s and the early 1960s, the Allied strategic situation steadily improved. Proportionally, the Allied nuclear advantage did not grow, but the nuclear forces on both sides grew enormously while ground forces remained relatively static, and this favoured the Allies. Contrary to popular belief, the CONUS also became less vulnerable to Soviet surprise attack in this period. After the early 1960s, the growth of the Soviet nuclear arsenal convinced the West that it was no longer worth it to start a nuclear war on day one. This was rationalized as being acceptable, due to the growth of Allied ground forces and MAD; but the truth was that the growth of Allied ground forces was NOT nearly enough to offset the growth of Soviet nuclear forces. Having lost their nuclear superiority and failed to come anywhere close to ground parity, the Allies once again had no effective means of defending Europe other than to threaten murder - suicide. The "bomber mafia" period was the only period of the Cold War where the Allies had a credible theory of victory over the USSR. It was NOT irrational; on the contrary, it was the only time when the Allies made effective use of their limited resources to come up with a decisive advantage. Today, NATO is stupid enough to delude itself into thinking that nuclear weapons use is irrational and only a madman would do it, forgetting that when the shoe was on the other foot and NATO had the inferior conventional forces, they planned and intended to unleash total war on day one.
LeMay was exactly the kind of guy I use in examples of self made men. IMO, if you, as an adult male, are a good dancer, pool player, et al,...you're probably suspect as not being a responsible adult. The comments about his fatigue ongoing are testament to his commitment to his profession. He like Gen. SHERMAN (Civil War), knew that total war was the only way. The Japanese waged total war without remorse against its enemies(especially China). Why would Japan then get a pass on the receiving end? Do not judge him with a modern lense.
Robert McNamara was part of LeMay's staff in 1945 and covers the devastation of the fire bombing in his biographical movie "Fog of War" including listing similar sized US communities to the fire bombed Japanese cities.
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Always love to see my good friend and co-historian James Scott!
@jonparshall , you always manage to bring some "extra special" to this podcast (and basically all other related programming, for that matter), even if it's by simply showing up and briefly sliding into the comments. Thank you for all that you do!
I've heard you mention this in the past, but I dont recall exactly when and where, so I'm asking this publicly since I'm willing to bet that I'm not the only one interested: Are signed copies of 'Shattered Sword' still available? And if so, how would one go about procuring one? (I'd be remiss if I didn't pose the same question to Mr. Scott regarding his recent publicatiions as well, in case he happens to see this.)
Thank you in advance; wishing you and the family, including your current CATDIV, all the best this coming winter up north!
yeah but you win the shirt game 😎
@@DalonCole Haha!
@@jonparshall i am also a fan of “nice” shirts 😎
Does James Scott have a cat named Akagi though? 😻😹
This episode means much to me especially as my Dad was an 18 year old Seabee on Saipan, who unloaded bombs for the Superfortresses, dodged nightly Japanese air raids, and took his first airplane flight when a crew offered him to go up on a B-29 on a test flight of a plane with new engines.
Bless all of you boys.
When still in high school I discovered Martin Caidin's "A Torch To The Enemy." This book stunned and shocked me by describing the incredible destruction caused by the fire-bombing raids. It changed my perspective on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. I came to understand that the incendiary raids were wiping out the cities no less than the atomic bombs did; the major difference being that with the nukes, it only took one plane in instead of hundreds. But the level of destruction was pretty much equivalent, and the dead were just as dead.
One of the hostages that Iran held during 1979 sent a letter home while captive asking for some Curtis LeMay stoneware, an oblique reference to Gen. LeMay's threat to send to an enemy back to the stone age. This was a dangerous request and would have incurred severe reprisals if the Iranian captors had understood what was being requested. This letter was kept secret until after the hostages were freed.
Their enemy already was in the stone age.
Perhaps proving tyrants and terrorists are not learning from history, thus condemned to a reputation of the demise of their predecessors. Great analysis gentleman. Thank you!
@@Heike--
Another fun fact.The Savak secret police was set up with the assistance of Norman Schwarzkopf Sr. who was both a newly retired
US Army Major General and the former and first Chief of the New Jersey State Police (He designed their still used uniforms which
have a very prussian look to them,perhaps based on his post WW1 Army posting as Provost Marshal for occupied Germany after WW1)
The CIA looked to Schwarzkopf and his role in organizing the New Jersey State Police by having him organize the Savak for the Shah.
Jimmy Carter didn't greenlight the Ayatollah. He was simply responding to the Church Committee in the US Senate which exposed
years of CIA/FBI/NSA/IRS dirty deeds both overseas and domestically in the USA including drugging of US citizens and infiltrating
civil rights groups and installing and toppling foreign governments including Iran.
Jimmy Carter citing the need for transparency in US activities across the world,withheld US intelligence and military support from authoritarian regimes that had been anti-communist,but also had rampant human rights abuses. Jimmy Carter allowed the Shah
to come to the US for cancer treatment and he abandoned his throne. The Ayatollah Khomeni who was in Paris was invited back
by the intrem Iranian government which likely thought it could craft a power sharing agreement with Khomeni.
Nobody could predict the ground swell of islamic fundamentalism sweeping Iran.
Embassies may be neutral in fantasy land but nowhere else. They have always been locations of intelligence operations in a given country.
The Germans where doing things in the US before the American entry into WW1 and the Japanese were doing things before Pearl Harbor.
The Soviets were running ops in Washington and the US behind the Iron Curtain.
Its recognized by international law hat storming an embassy is grounds for war. The Iranians just caught the US having pulled out of Vietnam
4 years before and President Carter not wanting to start another war and being aware that Iran was hostile to both the West which it saw
as capitalist and imperialist and the Communist block which it saw as Godless. Carter didn't want to push the Iranians and their geostrategically important location on the Persian Gulf,into Soviet arms by bombing them.
@@RB-bd5tz no, it wasn't. Iran was pretty highly developed at the time.
Back in the mid-80's I worked with a man who was the gun operator for the two dorsal turrets on a B-29 flying missions over Japan. When asked what was the scariest moment he had on those raids he answered it was when he witnessed a flak shell pass completely through one of the wings of his plane, he was looking out through the glass blister on the top of the bomber, when it exploded about 100 feet above that wing. He said it left about a two foot hole in the wing and peppered the plane with shrapnel. Had that flak shell gone off any sooner it probably would have blown the wing off. He said it was a come to God moment for him.
Thank God for our military heroes. We can never repay them for the physical and psychological trauma that affected the survivors for the rest of their lives.
I always wonder what kind of forklift those guys use for hauling around their massive forged steel balls...Hyster maybe, or Caterpillar.
I always had an "academic" understanding of how devastating fire bombing truly was on a city built of paper and wood. I never, until today, really had that visceral understanding of how horribly destructive that fire bombing truly was. This podcast added that sense of reality to what otherwise would have only been another collection of words. It turned out not to be the actual words were, rather how they were delivered. This programming is nonpariel. I believe that I got the actual feeling that many Japanese citizens actually felt, right before they died. And ... suffocation was one modality I had never even considered. Thanks for letting me sit in the best classroom in the world that spoke about this subject.
My best friends father was heavily involved with the United States Air Force Association in the 1980's. At an association dinner his wife ended up sitting beside General LeMay. She was nervous to be sitting beside the gruff, tough (as woodpecker lips!) mastermind of Japan fire bombing but after some small talk they found a topic of mutual interest and really hit it off. The topic? Needlepoint. I'm serious.
When I was in Junior High, I found my mom's home town of Tsu in Jablonsky's Air War series. He stated that Tsu was the very first city in Japan targeted that had no strategic targets whatsoever. The first raid destroyed 75% of the city and it was 98% destroyed by the end of the war. So I asked my mom about it and she said, "Oh, that first raid was the worst! I was working at the airplane engine factory..." And I thought, well, so much for no strategic targets...
That’s fascinating. I wonder what caused him to make that assertion in the book. A gap in his research, or something less innocuous.
Man this has to be one of your best episodes so far! I had no idea the concept of strategic bombing went back to the 20s. I guess at this point, we've seen it work and seen it not work. Seth you really did your homework on this one--can't say enough about it! James Scott wow another great presentation. Bill great work also! Absolutely my go to for anything on the Pacific--thanks for all your hard work!!!!
何事も表にして議論し合えるというところがアメリカという国の強みなのかなと感じます、日本の場合はどうしても自国にとって都合悪いところは目を塞いで話を掘り下げるところが苦手なところが多分にあるので、その点ができるアメリカという国は素晴らしい国だなと思いますね。
In my humble opinion, due to the great loss of life and total destruction of Japanese cities,the older Japanese citizens wanted to and mostly dud erase WW2 from their memories because they didn't want to talk about or remember the destruction of their country.The moved forward because the past was just to painful.
I think Japan is a wonderful country.
@@markpaul-ym5wg ご返信ありがとうございます。やはり過去の嫌なことや辛いことを考えたくないという事だとは思いますが、僕自身の拙い人生経験からしても、過去の嫌な出来事を直視して考えた方が精神的に強くなり、物事を冷静且つ客観的に見る事ができる目を養えるという意味で生産的なのかなと思いますね。
@@NathanDudani 絵文字ありがとうございます。
@@joebollig2689 ご返信ありがとうございます、戦争の時もそうですが、日本は国力不足もあって、精神力に頼って結果判断を誤るところが多かったと思いますが、その点アメリカは肝心なところは冷静且つ客観的に計画して戦略を推し進めるというところがあるように思います、その点が昔も今も変わらないアメリカの強さなのかなと僕は思います。
This podcast has quite literally changed my life and my entire perception of the world. Thank you.
Saw the B-29 "Fi-Fi" fly over my house on the way home from the Cleveland Air Show. She was only about 1500 to 2000 feet up. Even now, it was big and impressive as it rumbled over like the queen of the sky...
We've seen "Doc" up close at the Inyokern airport, which is a natural thing (coming to Inyokern) considering the plane was recovered from the range at NAWS China Lake just 10-15 miles away.
Fifi has flown over my house as well while giving rides near Chicago. The house shook. Imagine what 300 B-29's must have sounded like.
The March 9/10 Tokyo raid was horrible...However, it HAD to be done. I was born in Japan, stationed in Japan and have great affection for Japan, it's culture and people. My Dad too, participated in combat during WW2 in the Pacific, yet he too came to love Japan. This is reflected in spending over 9-years on 3 different tours in Japan. It pains me to this day thinking of the fire bombing of Japan. But, as sad is it was and still is...The bombing campaign had to be prosecuted to the end.
Seth, Captain Toti and Mr. Scott. I appreciate Mr. Scott's work very much having read Rampage and Target Tokyo, very well written. Thank you all gentlemen for your hard work (Captain Toti's tireless endeavors) in bringing this great & interesting history. You're appreciated.
Fascinating Episode Gentleman. I for one would welcome a look at LeMay.
He's a fascinating and complicated man. Definitely worth a look!
It is worth noting when discussing the B-29, the tale of the "Battle of Kansas." The first 300 B-29's built were flown to Salina, KS and reworked. This was an order by Hap Arnold to fix the issues on the 29s. The planes were worked on 24 hours a day, seven days a week in all kinds of weather. This was to put in place much needed modifications that came along after these three hundred bombers had begun construction.
Great show as always.
The turbo-compound Wright R-3350 engines for the B-29 and many postwar airliners was nowhere near ready for deployment in 1943-44. The problems were finally solved a few years after WW2 ended. When jets appeared in numbers over Korea, the B-29 was forced into night operations again.
In 1968 I was in I Corps in Vietnam with the 1st Cav as a helicopter pilot. I was 20 years old until just before the November election. I watched a lot of American kids die in combat while Johnson played bomb-don't bomb-North Vietnam. Lemay was running for Vice President with George Wallace and I voted for them for one reason. Lemay said he would bomb North Vietnam back to the stone age. They lost to Nixon and for several more years they played games with North Vietnam while more American kids died. In 1973 Nixon B-52 bombed North Vietnam and presto the POWs were returned and we, the U.S., pulled out.
I was in high school when Saigon fell, but I'd watched the news with interest when the Linebacker strikes were going on. The enemedia dutifully reported the communist north's line about easily shooting down Buffs. Oddly, less than a week later, the Vietnamese communists showed up hats in hand in Paris begging for "peace." Shortly after Ford stepped in when Nixon stepped out, the North Koreans murdered a US Army Lieutenant and a couple of ROK troops in the DMZ. Ford sent B-52s to South Korea to quite the situation down. The enemedia talking heads began gibbering about "gunboat diplomacy," and the Norks began huffing and puffing about shooting Buffs down like flies. But, shortly after the B-52s landed in South Korea, the North Korean commies backed down.
Fast forward a couple of years, I was given a stack of Aviation magazines, they were about general aviation stuff. I was more interested in military aviation, but I discovered a column written by a retired intelligence officer, most of his columns made light of Soviet and other communist countries stupidity, and were extremely funny. One, concerning the situation in Korea described above, said that, whenever there was a communist revolutionary victory, the victorious commies would send off representatives to advise other communist nations on how to improve their revolutionary system. According to the columnist, the Vietnamese dutifully sent their contingent to North Korea, roughly about the same time the B-52s showed up. The North Koreans began to brag to the Vietnamese how they would shoot down the Buffs, just like they had, but the Vietnamese took them to the side and basically said: "look, when the US sends B-52s, it's time to STFU...
I had a very hard morning of work lined up today - listening to today's podcast made it fly by in an instant. Thank you, fascinating as always and very educational. Haywood Hansel was completely unknown to me, I can't wait to learn more
A friend from church was an airman at the Turner Air Force Nike Base in Albany, GA back in the 60,s. During the Cuban Missile Crisis, General LeMay flew in for a refuling. My friend and another who were assigned to guarding the air strip quickly informed the General he had to extinguish his cigar or leave the area. Cigar extinguished and both airmen were promoted on the spot.
thank you for all of your hard work, and another great episode.
As a former SAC guy in B52's (1982-1994) I found the pod cast informative and confirmed my views of the Air War in Japan.
My father, William Bush, was assigned to the 315th Bomber Wing, North Airfield, Guam. He was a B-29 ground crew radar technician who arrived in theater in early May 1945 and was stationed in Guam until the spring of 1946. He didn't talk much about his experiences in the war. His most common story was about how he once repaired a balky radar set on a B-29 by kicking it after all other methods failed.
Thanks for the stories. I have been watching your weekly podcasts since Season One.
@davidbush697 As a former Air Force radar technician, I can attest to the efficacy of a well place swat by a combat boot or BFH* in convincing something involving radar to behave properly!
* Big F#&*@$g Hammer
"Percussive maintenance"
@@davidbush697 the 315th was based at Northwest Field, my dad was there with the 331st Bomb Group.
@@vernmeyerotto255 AKA 4 pound precision adjustment tool.
Still a thing. We did the same thing during the GWOT on our C-130's. A seat rod was probably the most used tool we had. The theory being "It's already broken, so we get it working again, or have a good reason to get a new one."
Another well presented and informative video, nice one.
My dad's outfit was 501st, (of the 20th AF), bombardment squadron, they targeted the oil refineries. They also flew night time and bad weather missions, all the guns were removed except the tail guns, which had either 3 .50 cals, or two .50s and a 20mm cannon. There was a "radar ball" extended from the tail, which would catch anything approaching from the rear. And since they were not in formation, it was most likely an enemy fighter. They had an 18' 180° radar "wing" in front of the forward bombay, that is how they navigated and bombed. The first group in would drop incendiaries, the next group would drop heavy explosives, to spread the fires...they won a battle star for their destruction of the refineries, and one for not losing a plane in combat. And a presidential unit citation with oak leaf cluster. They also flew the last mission of the war, to the largest refinery.
Thanks!🙈
A superb episode in an excellent series. Thank you.
Powerful and illuminating episode on the context of otherwise puzzling warfare, past and present. Persuaded me to buy the book.
Another quality episode, thanks for all the effort you put into these shows. And a shoutout to the excellent 9/11 presentation by Captain Totti; it's definitely recommended viewing for everyone who can handle the emotional impact of the story--it's tough, but important to hear the story of someone who was directly involved in the less-publicized Pentagon side of the 9/11 story. Greetings and gratitude from Northeast Ohio!
My ex-boss was navigator on the B-29 raids. Years after the war he went to Japan to see the nation firsthand. They must have given him uppers to keep him alert during the long flight. It affected his demeanor a bit but did not impact his health as far as I know.
This was one of the best of your series on the Pacific War. Yes, it told the story of fire bombing at the end of the conflict and how it set the stage for the A-bomb attacks that finally ended the fighting.
Such comprehensive explanations are just not available without extensive research and your expert guest was tremendous.
The story you told was painful but covered a lot of details and left the door open to explore the occupation from both sides of the conflict and leads up to the current situation in East Asia which has complete relevance to our world today. Thanks.
This podcast is always so great to listen to. I look forward to it every week. Seth and Bill do such a great job each week. The guests you have are always interesting. My grandfather served in the Pacific aborad the USS Anteres. Some of the episodes really help me better understand the overall picture in the Pacific.
Great as usual Thanks guys.
Thank you Bill Seth and James.
Fantastic podcast - I love the intro music - thank you so much
Thank you for the knowledge.
Excellent episode! PBS's "The American Experience" also has an excellent episode on the Tokyo firebombing.
Great show guys
Thanks!
Bah Boom = Shakespeare.. Good one Bill.
Yet another GREAT episode--thanks to you all for putting out great information to the masses. Seth, your personal insight to so many of the heroes of WWII is amazing!
Outstanding and riveting episode.
'Black snow' is excellent. It allows you to imagine being on saipan with the xxth but also in tokyo on march 9 1945.
Thank you. I had been asking for you guys to cover this topic, and here it is.
You guys continue to get better and better, you and the captain are a great team 🙈
Being a longtime sailor, Bill should interview the author on his book about the USS Liberty.
Yesterday I awoke at 5 AM as usual’ at 6:30 AM I started looking for the new unauthorized History of the Pacific War. After 30 min of not finding the new material I released it was Monday! So disappointed! But today I am happy!
Clearly, Lemay was not only somewhat controversial, but a hard , hard man. Willing to do whatever it took to win. And men like that seldom have a good reputation to the public. But in times of war, such men are much needed.
Look at how bomber Harris was treated after the war. Even Churchill threw him straight under the bus at wars end. (Churchil was also threw away at wars end).
Another GREAT show guys. Very interesting and insightful.
🇺🇸SALUTE🇺🇸😊
Awesome episode guys. I just put 3 of James's books on my wishlist.
Your public library could probably accelerate your timetable.
At about 5 minutes Seth says asking for agreement if the strategic bombing shortened the war. The answer was yes. The starvation part of the alternative method to defeat Japan was already well under way due to submarine interdiction of moving food. The strategic bombing accelerated the surrender, sparing the full effect of mass starvation in Japan. It saved millions of lives by getting US food to the Japanese civilians, which started immediately after the surrender with idled bombers dropping food instead of bombs.
@@flparkermdpc fascinating. But I am wondering why you are telling me?
I'm very excited to be listening to this, as I find this topic so fascinating and the Pacific War itself fascinating to learn about. I'm currently reading Whirlwind by Barrett Tillman which chronicles the Air War over Japan. I'm also reading Mr Scott's The War Below. I'll be looking forward to reading his Black Snow and his other books as well. Great topic and episode gentlemen!!
I studied under Dr. Russell Weigley in college 30+ years ago and first heard the theory that the A bomb basically did with one plane what was being done by the fleet of planes of earlier raids. It's a great compliment to the knowledge of the historians here that they confirmed what I was taught and have always felt. Thank you for another excellent episode.
Thank you Mr. Scott. Your addition to this podcast is extremely informative. Now i have yet another book to add to my "must read" list.
“The advent of the airplane will render all future wars obsolete.” - The Wright Brothers circa 1912
Uncommon value is a common virtue with your podcast.
Lol
Captain , as you are very aware, your uncle may also have been a victim of Italian AAA . My dad was a Seabee Chief in the Solomons and New Guinea. He stated he was more afraid of the friendly Anti-aircraft debris returning to earth than the actual Japanese bombing. Either way, so sad to hear about your italian uncles demise during the war.
The Pacific war was a most unpleasant business...and it would involve some most unpleasant tactics. Very good episode and guest.
Thank you. Another excellent episode and a great guest.
Thanks to all three of you for yet another informative episode. You explained the campaign, the men involved, and the multifaceted problems they faced very well. It's a very politically, tactically, and strategically complicated subject and you explained it well in under two hours.
I think that people who espouse the theory that the decision to drop the atomic bomb was ethically wrong are ignoring the fact that it likely saved the lives of the millions of Japanese who would have certainly been killed had the invasion been necessary.
Suggestion --
When (hopefully not for awhile) the Pacific was is completely covered, it will be time for
"Unauthorized history of the European War Podcast."
Great show gentlemen.
Second to Bill's recommendation of Dr. Strangelove. My Uncle was a B-29 crewman. He was shot down over Japan and a confirmed POW. Family lore is that he was used as a human shield and killed by a subsequent B-29 raid.
@@MrTScolaro his fate could have been far worse.
I don't even have anything to add I'm just here to pump up the comment count
It's a sidebar, but it should be remembered that while Hap Arnold staked his career on the B-29, he *did* throw money at a backup option: the Consolidated B-32 Dominator. The Dominator took longer to develop, and it had more issues; but there was an option in place for a strategic bombing campaign against Japan, had the B-29 program somehow failed. Some actually did fly combat missions in the Pacific as part of the the 386th Bomb Squadron in June 1945 onward.
I believe the final air combat over Japan was some Japanese fighters attacking a B-32 doing reconnaissance.
As a side note, my squadron had a guy whose father was in the 21st AF. He was shot down during a raid in Japan and was a POW until the end of the war.
Thank you.. this was very informative and a tough subject and you all did a great job…
"Black Snow" is an outstanding book and highly recommended.
Thanks
Bill, thank you for your insight as to the "bomber mafia" lasting into the sixties and I would say even into the seventies, because of our dependence on ICBMs for "MAD." [Love the "Dr Strangelove" reference].
I believe it was in another of your podcasts you made the point that the final motives for the surrender were the atomic bombs, the Russian invasion of Manchuria, and the worry of social collapse from the effects of starvation and the strategic bombing of cities. Hard tactics, but it worked
One aspect, or maybe a related aspect, to the strategic bombing campaign that I wish got more coverage was the sea mining missions and all the technology and political effort that went into even doing it. The results are difficult to understand without a detailed analysis. I’d like to hear your take on it.
The mining campaign was crucial, but it doesn't make for sexy videos or high click counts. Consider that German and Soviet logistics near the battlefield were heavily reliant on horses and mules. Good luck finding videos on the topic beyond one on WW2TV by Woody. Same with the Lend Lease Western Route which hauled half the US supplies to the USSR through the Sea of Japan from 1942 -45.
Another great episode! Many thanks to Bill for his participation in this episode considering he wasn't feeling that well.
Japan had two on-going nuclear programs and one bio-weapons program by 1945. Post war intelligence interrogated the Japanese involved in these programs. One of the questions asked of the Japanese was whether they would actually USE these weapons on Americans. The Japanese were shocked by this question. "Of course!" they answered in disbelief at the asking of the question. If this episode seems disgusting and ruthless, well, losing the war would be a far more horrendous than the winning of it. William Tecumseh Sherman...."War is the remedy that our enenies have chosen, and I say let us give them all they want." War ain't nice. It was a world war and a total war. There really was no such thing as a "civilian" or an "innocent"..
Amen !!!
If the rolls were reversed.
The U.S.A. would have been flatted and depopulated by horrific means.
I have lived in Japan, and I can easily say I love the Japanese people.
But I have met people (both a American and Japanese) that are totally ignorant of the facts. If the war had continued the numbers of dead for both sides was going to be in the millions. And I would most likely not be here.
My Father was 1st MARINE DIVISION WWII. (I am third generation MARINE CORPS)
War is and should be horrific.
And any and all so called leaders of nations should have to see it and smell it up close and personal.
@@knutdergroe9757 Thanks for your comments, bro.
Another belting episode James is excellent
In Vietnam, the US Airforce was not allowed to hit the cities. It was like playing baseball wearing handcuffs. Since the submarine force contributed next to nothing in Vietnam I am very surprised you used Vietnam as an example.
On rare occasions when the gloves came off 1969 the Marines in Operation Dewey or Linebacker’s 1 and 2 the enemy was soundly defeated
Growing up more than a few of my friends older brothers died in Vietnam, and their wasn't ANY THANK YOU...BS.. Watch the old TV showes. The psycho villan was portrayed as A VIETNAM VET.
My Dad flew "Dumbo" missions during the strategic bombing campaign, and by wars end his sqdn (6thERS) had moved from Saipan to Iwo Jima to Okinawa. He was flying the B-17G with a lifeboat carried under the belly.
My favorite LeMay quote “ The Soviets are our adversaries. Our enemy is the Navy”
I think the Navy felt pretty much the same way about the Air Force.
We did not think at all about the Air Force !
Beat Army !!
Skunk at a Family Reunion....lol. Remindes me of my trip from LZ Sally in I Corp to DaNang in August 1969 to go on RnR. I was in torn, dirty unpolished boots, dirty helmet, My M16 on my shoulder, clean camos but mussed up. I landed at DaNang, I was so shocked, we landed at LAX airport in Los Angeles....that was my impression of D.N. I only saw solid buildings, no dirt, only cement everywhere. I walked to a building, and everybody was starring at me like I was the hated step son. They were all dressed in ironed fatigues, polished new boots, no weapons, all spit n polished. They were freaking out by me being that way.
CPT BILL, just a note. K-rations were WW2, C rations Vietnam. MRE's Desert Storm.
SGT DOUG, RECON, 1/502, 101st ABN, RVN 68-69, LZ SALLY
Oh $&@? ya, when you forget what day it is and then this comes up on your feed, hells yea boys. Thanks again you guys are awesome.
My dad was an Intelligence officer with the 20th Air Force and with the 1st B-29 group to the Asia theatre. He had, now lost, aerial photos of the before and after of the Tokyo fire bombing. He was in the room when LeMay announced the low level raids. He flew over the surrender signing in a B-29.
Great book!
Solid content
Damage asessment was unhindered. If the japanese could not send flak or fighters to oppose the bomber raid, much less they would be able to do so the next morning aginst a high speed reconnaissance flight. This fed and reinforced the "spreadsheet" mind set
Excellent as usual and another book to add to my list. Will we see Admiral Cox ever return?
More fascinating WW2 information
I hope you guys at least mention the Battle of Wichita at some point. It's a bit too early in the timeline for this episode but it's one of the lesser known but fascinating stories of WWII.
Just wondering what your opinion is of the post war Tokyo portrayed in Godzilla Minus One? Also, what you thought of the battle between the Takao and Godzilla?
The B29 demonstrated the rapid technological advancement in US aircraft design and introduction to service in WWII. One of the 'positive' aspects of war is the very rapid development in technology, e.g. radar and jet propulsion. Very interesting episode.
WWI had the same effect too. Basically, it took 4 years for aircraft technology to progress in what many calculated it would took 20 in peace time
Good morning from SC!
Great details
My father was an AC with 869th on Saipan. Flew 40 missions, 35 over Japan.
A lot of airman flying in unpressurized acft. at high altitude suffered from Bell's Palsy, including my Dad.
I believe that in 1964, General Curtis LeMay, the Chief of Staff of the US Air Force, was the reason the AR-15 platform was adopted by all branches of the military. The Air Force was the first branch to purchase, and use them.
In your general introduction about strategic bombings (is there a difference with terror bombings...!?), you could have mentioned the May 14, 1940 Rotterdam bombing the day after which the Netherlands capitulated. Also the German bombings in Polen the very first day of WWII especially Warsaw and Wielun. Or Dunkirk from the 24th of May. And of course Guernica during the Civil War in Spain, the Luftwaffe rehearsal ground.
Rock on Seth
One side note, in the 1930’s Babe Ruth, Lou Gerigh and a catcher named Cohen who was with the state dept took pictures of Japan and it showed that the structures where made out of wood while barnstorming on their baseball tour, which led TO THE FIREBOMBING later in the war.
I may be early commenting, but Lemay was an accomplished pilot and navigator before he got his stars. He understood the problem from being familiar with it.
Amazing as always, and hopefully Bill got some much deserved rest afterwards.
Obviously not the target for B-29s, but when fighters were going after targets of opportunity on the way home or with the carrier raids was agricultural production targeted, or was the destruction of the transportation enough to further the starvation strategy?
I recall British wartime films warning farmers about the danger of butterfly bombs dropped onto fields.
"War is cruelty, and you cannot refine it."
"The crueler it is, the sooner it will be over."
Lemay another of the many brilliant military leaders of WW2. Thanks for another informative and educational podcast.
You know, it's good to bring up the fact that the government of Japan is on the hook for what happened. All these revisionist who want to paint America and the allies in a bad light completely forget about that fact that the government of Japan (and Germany) could have called "uncle" at any time, but they chose not to. We were not the aggressors in this war.
@@CastleGraphics amen.
Hansel sounded like an honest football coach that gave a presser, which his team got beat badly and put the partial blame on himself.
In doing so, Possum got run over.
Great insights for this episode, guys.
Some context on the "bomber mafia" of the early Cold War. Between about 1945 and the end of the Korean War circa 1953, the West had no effective defence against the USSR. Not only was there no chance of defending Europe, but US air forces could do little to the USSR in retaliation except destroy some Soviet industry - and the Soviets would gain much more by their conquests than they would lose to bombing. For example, it was calculated that the Allies dropped the equivalent of 500 fat man bombs on Germany in the course of the air war; there were 330 (roughly equivalent) bombs in the US arsenal in 1950 and 878 in 1953.
After 1953, the crash Western rearmament gave some prospect of defending Europe, IF the Allies used their nuclear superiority to its full advantage. There was some attempt in 1952 to come up with a conventional ground and air force capable of actually stopping the Soviets on its own, but this was almost immediately written off as politically impossible. Nevertheless, by switching to heavier reliance on nuclear weapons between the early 1950s and the early 1960s, the Allied strategic situation steadily improved. Proportionally, the Allied nuclear advantage did not grow, but the nuclear forces on both sides grew enormously while ground forces remained relatively static, and this favoured the Allies. Contrary to popular belief, the CONUS also became less vulnerable to Soviet surprise attack in this period.
After the early 1960s, the growth of the Soviet nuclear arsenal convinced the West that it was no longer worth it to start a nuclear war on day one. This was rationalized as being acceptable, due to the growth of Allied ground forces and MAD; but the truth was that the growth of Allied ground forces was NOT nearly enough to offset the growth of Soviet nuclear forces. Having lost their nuclear superiority and failed to come anywhere close to ground parity, the Allies once again had no effective means of defending Europe other than to threaten murder - suicide.
The "bomber mafia" period was the only period of the Cold War where the Allies had a credible theory of victory over the USSR. It was NOT irrational; on the contrary, it was the only time when the Allies made effective use of their limited resources to come up with a decisive advantage. Today, NATO is stupid enough to delude itself into thinking that nuclear weapons use is irrational and only a madman would do it, forgetting that when the shoe was on the other foot and NATO had the inferior conventional forces, they planned and intended to unleash total war on day one.
LeMay was exactly the kind of guy I use in examples of self made men. IMO, if you, as an adult male, are a good dancer, pool player, et al,...you're probably suspect as not being a responsible adult.
The comments about his fatigue ongoing are testament to his commitment to his profession. He like Gen. SHERMAN (Civil War), knew that total war was the only way. The Japanese waged total war without remorse against its enemies(especially China). Why would Japan then get a pass on the receiving end?
Do not judge him with a modern lense.
Robert McNamara was part of LeMay's staff in 1945 and covers the devastation of the fire bombing in his biographical movie "Fog of War" including listing similar sized US communities to the fire bombed Japanese cities.
He hide the True Results