My Father-in-Law was aboard his ship, USS Poole (DE-151) when Franklin arrived in New York. I remember him talking about how impactful she was and the effect it had on his ship's company. Shortly after USS Poole went into the Brooklyn Navy yard and they started painting the dazzle pattern on her. "Pop" said he knew his war wasn't over and shortly after they departed for the Pacific where he remained well past the end of the war. Pop always spoke about how the site of Franklin, scorched and battered scared the hell out of him. After 18 convoy escort trips he lost his fear of the U Boats, but the idea of going into the lion's den of Japanese suicide planes really unsettled him.
My Uncle died on the Franklin. I had another Uncle come back from two sinkings in the Pacific, but unable to have a family or keep a job because of the mental trauma he suffered for the rest of his life. Two other Uncles suffered gunshot wounds in Europe, one carrying a billet in his spine for the rest of his life.
My uncle came home from the war with serious PTSD and became an alcoholic. I wonder if anybody has ever studied and written about the psychological impacts on the World War II combat veterans. Many of the kids I grew up with (including me) had very bad relationships with their fathers, many of whom were abusive alcoholics. I wonder how much this widespread generational divide contributed to the rise of the hippie movement, flower, children, anti-war activists etc. Many soldiers and marines went to Vietnam because of their respect for their father’s service in World War II. Those of us with poor relationships with our father didn’t have this influence and were more likely to become activists and draft Dodgers.
This is something I have never heard of, ie, generational impact of mental illness. I certainly would not rule it out. Therapy for mental illness is something which is a mystery to me. Likely for many psychiatrists, too. All I know is that those who suffer from it really and truly do suffer.😮
@@heynsenene and @davidtrindle6473 there are some cultural commentators and philosophers who have noticed this kind of thing, but I haven't found a study. There's a small channel called The Anadromist who discusses the collective psychological trauma of "The Greatest Generation" and specifically what their collective silence about their trauma (and crimes, where applicable) would have effected in their children (the children of the 50s, 60s, and early 70s). I'm linking below but the video is titled "How We Got Here #2: Postwar Era) ruclips.net/video/7OHRn6kC0fA/видео.htmlsi=oKCpHCwLf9TgtkTE
Thanks Seth and Bill, Bill hope you are over covid by now. My best friend, we met in the 4th grade. We are 68 now, so we have been friends, more like brothers since then. His Uncle was a Seaman 1st class on the Big Ben on that fateful day. His name was Marion McSmith Seaman 1st class. He was 18 years old going on 19. He was one of the 300+ in chow line when they were hit. He survived the attack and became a very sucessful Ford, Lincoln and Mercury dealer in the NW part of the US. I only met him once as he died very young (52) because of cancer caused by all the smoke he endured that day. I called my friend Mike tonight and told him about this episode and that he should watch it. He has a hard time with the history of Big Ben. This one I told him he should watch because of the way you two men put it together. You guys are great and thank you very much for the research and effort on every episode. See you next week.
Regarding the heroism of USS Santa Fe, it's worth keeping in mind that she had been part of CruDiv 13 with USS Birmingham the previous October. Birmingham had pulled alongside USS Princeton to help fight fires, but suffered over 50% casualties when a massive ammunition explosion gutted the Princeton. The captain and crew of the Santa Fe probsbly had an excellent idea what they would potentially be exposed to in aiding the Franklin.
Yes, Captain Fitz did ask Capt. Gehres if the Franklin's magazines had been flooded. Thinking incorrectly they had been, Gehres replied in the affirmative.
Ahh Tuesday morning…. you guys have no idea how many of us look forward to this. So as I sit here in South Florida, watching this monster getting ready to steamroll us, I think I’ll take a few minutes to relax and listen to another fascinating episode.
Yes stay safe! As I am a Texan I have been through 17 name hurricanes between Florida , Louisiana, and Texas I have always said the worst hurricanes are in October and once a hurricane gets into the gulf you never know where it is going! Stay safe. I pray for Florida! I started with Carla!
Thank you guys for this excellent episode. My Dad was a Gunner's Mate on the Franklin - on the quad 40 mount on the bow, under the front of the flight deck. Dad was a plank owner and was on the Franklin on March 19th. Dad's gun crew was one of the crews that was secured from their post under condition 3. Dad was in his bunk when the bombs hit. The men in his berthing compartment thought that the Franklin's 5 inch mounts had started firing, but quickly learned that the hangar deck was an inferno when they tried to leave their compartment. Fortunately, they were able to leave the compartment via another hatch, and they went out to the quad 40 bow mount. Thanks again for keeping the memory of the Franklin and her crew alive. Walter Smith.
I am 72 and have been reading about ww2 since 4th grade. It is rare for me to find new informative, balanced, and insightful material. Having stumbled across your podcast on RUclips, I went back and binged all of it. It is incredible. The honest accounting of command decisions alongside individual actions is amazing. One of the most stunning revelations is the incredible abundance of not only bad commanders, but the consistancy of their being awarded at the expense of better leaders. It speaks to me of the unstoppable juggernaut of the USA once its collective mind is set on a goal. I don't think any other belligerent in the war could have survived such blunders given the lack of overwhelming logistics they posessed, both human and material. Dont know your future plans. All good things end. But I seriously hope other podcasts come along that take a note from you, anf do such thorough, researched, and deep dive accounts. Kudos gentlemen.
One story about the incompetence and arrogance of Captain Gheres you left out was the incident that occurred when Big Ben arrived back at Pearl Harbor. When a tug pulled alongside to put the Harbor Pilot onboard to guide the ship to her morning, Gheres refused permission for him to come aboard. His response was “After all I’ve been through, I’ll take her in myself.” He then promptly slammed the ship hard into the side of the dock, damaging both the hull of his own ship and the mooring area. And of course he blamed it on the docking crew and not himself. That guy was a massive narcissistic jerk.
As a retired Navy sailor this episode brought back some terrible memories and even triggered some PTSD in me. All I want to say is bless those men who served on this ship. Been there done that.
Father O’Callahan was a professor at Holy Cross when I was there and is buried in the cemetery on campus. My understanding is that he initially refused the Navy Cross because of the captain (and is the only one to do so in WW2) and was later awarded the MOH. We all knew that he was a hero on the Franklin but the details, other than “he saved the ship”, were never that clear. Thanks for giving more details. Father Joe taught two other MOH winners, John Powers and Thomas G. Kelley while teaching at Holy Cross.
The fact that two of his students went on to receive the MOH speaks volumes about Father Joe's character. I've known some truly spiritual people. Every one of them has *_lived_* the principle, _"I exist but to serve."_ It doesn't rub off on people who are so focused on themselves that they never figure out how much joy eludes them by not caring about what's best for others. But for those who are ready, a man like Father Joe is the right teacher at the right time.
I only recently read of Powers.....his obsession with getting a hit because "the people back home were counting on us"....reminds me of Dick Best. God bless all our heroes.
In my opinions that father Conway from uss Indianapolis should have gotten the MOh for his actions for keeping morale up from group to group ministry last rites
Gentlemen, I just wanted to thank you both, and your guests, for such amazing content. It might sound strange, but I go hiking having downloaded your episodes - it’s a dual smile event. For context, I’m a Brit living in HK and the offshore hiking trails have lots of WW2 memorials and respect (initially Brit AA and some very useless shore big guns - not helpful facing south, a la Singapore). My grandfather was a pre- 1939 RAF flyer, European theatre [Wing Commander], Malay/Borneo, and post ‘West’ Germany aid supplies. Just for casual note, he was the first RAF pilot to insist his dog joined him ‘up wheels’. To the best of my knowledge, and his words, the service made the first dog parachute - hopefully not self deploying! Thank you also for getting me through some challenging moments - your acute and accurate podcasts have always levelled my ship. Please keep it up and know how far you reach
If they made an accurate movie about the USS Franklin, it would receive universal condemnation for portraying such an unbelievable heel of a villain in the character of Leslie Gehres.
The aversion to airing the Navy's dirty laundry wasn't limited to Chester Nimitz. I'm shocked that no one had balls enough to say,"No way this jerk takes command!"Several admirals present who had nothing to fear from this jerk Captain.
Seth's battleship tour really brought home to me what any damage would do to the men aboard a warship. All the little offices, service rooms, pantries, galleys besides the essential systems and armaments all just packed in there. Never having been aboard a ship( except for a U-boat once), I never had an understanding of shipboard life and how f'd up it would be to have the place shot up, blown up or otherwise ruined...
Seth and Bill - This episode is equal to Iwo Jima. I saw the footage 60 years ago and I m staggered that so many men survived. The chaos of war and the bravery of so many.and so many saved. The amazing fact is the Franklin survived.
Bill, your brilliant comparisons of Captains of the Indy and Big Ben are spot on. The circle of blame stops on the dude with Eagles on his collar. McVey had several reasons for his ship getting sunk. Franklin had NO EXCUSES.
During my tour of duty in Southeast Asia I had the pleasure of participating in sleep deprived operations. C-130 crews would rotate in from CCK AB on Taiwan to Nakhon Phenom AB, Thailand for a 3 week stint. We would fly a schedule of 3 days on and a day off. We would normally get up at 4 AM on a 12 hour crew day then spend the evening at the club consuming mass quantities of gin. The club would close at 1 AM where we could build a budding hangover before our show at Operations for that days flight schedule. We would use the day off in recovery for the next 3 days. The first cycle for young men in their early 20s is sad but the effect are cumulative. The 3rd and 4th cycle are absolute drudgery. We pilots would swap naps duty on the 5 or so 45 minute sorties that would typically make up an airlift mission. Our Navigator would set an alarm clock to make sure someone would be awake at our destinations. War is hell whether it is the one you have or the one you make.
This episode really brought about some emotions. Confusion at the condition 3 decision so close to Japan, to a feeling of dread as the attack was underway, to sadness and feeling terrible for the hell that the crew was enduring on that ship, to pride knowing the Chief’s were keeping the ship going and brave men like O’Callahan those aboard the Santa Fe were helping save lives, to anger at the inexcuseable behavior of Gheres. I got really angry hearing about Gheres. Anyways, thank you Bill and Seth for another excellent tuesday, I am glad these stories are being told. 🇺🇸
I want to thank you both. Watching your videos awakened in me a desire to go to the WWII Museum. My husband is from Avoyelles parish. He wanted to come to visit family. Being a good wife, I said sure. But first, I wanted to go to the museum. We went today. It is a very well done Museum. Full of great info. Beautifully presented. I had tears in my eyes through the exhibits. To do it justice would take two days.
My first painting lesson in Art College in Dublin in 1979 was tutored by Charles Brady , a survivor who suffered severe leg injuries(perhaps as a result of an armoured deck being blasted upwards, he told us he had to learn to walk again at 17years of age (I think he an ensign). Charlie availed of the GI bill of rights , attending a Art College later working in MOMA , in 1959 he moved to Dublin where he married and painted, he told us of his memories of Jackson Pollock and Brendan Behan, I think he had PTSD and was fond of a beveredge . He died aged 72 , smoke inhalation on the Franklin a contributing factor, he was missed by all .
@@ivanconnolly7332 it has only been recently that I have reflected upon the mental injury that generation suffered from post war. Both those serving and those at home. They were the adults and leaders through the second half of the 20th C. I want to go and see what has been written on how that impacted their health, view of society, international relations etc.
While in college 86-89 I was in an ROTC class and I compared the action and command of this incident to the battle of little bighorn. There are definate similarities in command and control, and individual acts of heroism.
So video on Saratoga 1945 damage next? Even though she saw fewer action unlike the Big E, she should have some credit for one of the last pre war carriers that have survived the war.
I can't help but think of the families of the fallen sailors and marines aboard that ship finding out about their captains atrocities and bucking for the MOH. It really angers me. In a lighter note, I can't get enough of this podcast!!!!! I watch and re watch whenever I can!!
Seth, your point about the design of the Essex class carriers is very apt. The amount of punishment that the Franklin absorbed was astronomical, most of it from her own weaponry. The sheer fact that she was eventually able to return to Pearl Harbor, then the West Coast of the US, and finally to the Brooklyn Navy Yard under her own power was a testament to both the design and the work of the fine shipbuilders who created these historic vessels. I'm from Brooklyn, New York and grew up in Coney Island, and through family friends I met several men from the neighborhood who had worked at the Navy Yard, some of whom stayed on until the Navy Yard shut down for good in 1966. And one of them worked on the Franklin when it was there to be repaired. He, and many other yard workers, were shocked when the Franklin docked. They couldn't believe that the ship made it home with all of the damage. The sad part is that some workmen found body parts while working in the ship and it haunted them for a long time. The story of the USS Franklin was something for the ages.
Just watched the episode on the USS Franklin twice, as usual,you guys hit this one out of the park, I gotta get that book "Inferno" by Joseph Springer, very well done gentlemen, Capt. Toti, hope you feel better
29:55. Correct me if i'm wrong. But wasn't the bomb that hit Enterprise a dud? It hit the forward elevator, bounced off the island and landed on the flight deck. Before the crew rolled it overboard?
Guys, For me this was a horrific yet compelling podcast. I had to take a break twice during this. You've managed to convey the horror and suffering yet alongside this the acts of humanity and bravery of many of the crew. I've listened to most of your podcasts however this really depicted the reality for many crews of the ships involved during the war. I would add it was much the same whatever side you were on. I, being from the UK wasn't aware of this action before. The actions of the Captain dumfounds me especially accusing his crew of tacit desertion. Was any inquiry held afterwards and was the Captain held responsible in any way. Could the Admiral not have called the entire taskforce to action stations even though he was likely aware that all the other ships already were. This would have forced the Captain to do likewise without seeming to have directly ordered the ship over the Captains head. As for trying to block the priests Medal of Honour. Just how arrogant, vain and self righteous can one be.
Wonderful job guys. Bill is 100% correct, the captain should have been relieved, not rewarded with the Navy Cross. Trying to block Fr. Joe’s MOH was beyond unconscionable. Can’t believe this man received such a prestigious command with such deep character flaws. Salute to the Franklin’s crew for achieving the impossible. Thanks again for another memorable episode.
I have been looking forward to this episode ever since you guys mentioned doing it in the Carrier Raids episode mostly to see how you would treat the Franklin's "intrepid" captain. You guys did not disappoint. The sheer level of pigheadedness and loonicy that man demonstrated makes the fact that this ship was not lost even more incredible and is a testament to the other officers and crew and their efforts.
I am always happy to see the story of FRANKLIN get more visibility. I want to add some comments to the story about the captain of the Santa Fe (CL-60). First, his name was Harold Fitz, not Harold Fritz, as Joe Springer named him throughout his book. Captain Fitz was in charge of the rescue efforts crried out by Pittsburgh, Miller, Hunt, etc. You didn't mention it, but he brought his cruiser in, sideswiped the carrier, and then used his engines to hold it in position as they used the broken antennae masts to transfer men. He would be awarded the Navy Cross for his actions that day. As for Lt. Gary, he didn't stop with just rescuing the men in the mess hall; he later rescued more men in a forward compartment and then led men down to the boiler room to restart the engines.
This episode is a golden example of why The Unauthorized History of the Pacific War podcast is vitally needed. From where I'm sitting, typing this right now, I'm a fifteen minute ride from one of the high schools Geheres attended, Newark High School, in Newark, NY, about a 45-minute ride east from Rochester, NY. The other high school he attended was West High, that building later repurposed into my alma mater Wilson Magnet High in Rochester. Geheres didn't make it out of the 8th grade in either of them. About all he was good at was paddling his canoe on the Erie Canal and Sodus Bay. His mother helped him lie about his age (he was 16) so he could join the NY State Naval Reserve in Rochester, beginning his Navy career. At Newark High, they have an exhibit, honoring Geheres, containing some artifacts from his career. In 2010, on the 65th anniversary of the "incident" ("event" if you prefer), the newspaper of record in Rochester, the Democrat & Chronicle, published a guest essay by an author who's name I don't feel is worthy of mention. In both the exhibit in Newark, and the essay in the paper, Geheres is just described as a skillful hero who saved his ship and over 2,000 of her crew. No mention whatsoever of the monster he was; inexplicable to me for a mustang officer who enlisted with an 8th grade education at 16, and somehow got commissioned, got his wings, and rose to command of an Essex-class carrier; or any of the steps he failed to take to protect his command before Big Ben was struck. This is not a recently uncovered story, though it's rarely told in the depth Seth & Bill go into here. As Seth said at the outset, the definitive account of the near-loss of Big Ben is long out of print. But there are still people here who claim to have not gotten the memo. I don't know. This one hitting literally close to home as I watch it makes me feel as though I need to apologize for my area's negligence in exercising our power to face unpleasant facts, and see Geheres for who he really was. An incompetent monster.
1:32:49 - A snippet of that clip of Father Joe praying fervently over the wounded Bob Blanchard has intrigued me ever since it first appeared in the video montage intro to these podcasts. It's such a powerfully poignant moment, even though (before this episode) I never knew the story behind it. But now that its anonymity (to me) has been erased and the story of Father Joe's heroic leadership brings it to life, it's so much more meaningful. Heartfelt thanks, and superbly done, Seth and Cap'n Bill! - Vito 😎
Finally got a chance to finish this week's video--another excellent presentation of a harrowing tale that runs the full gamut of emotions. You have such a talent for bringing this history to life. Thank you for your dedication to telling these stories that *must* be remembered. Captain Totti, I hope you're feeling better now, a month out from the taping of the show. With your history of lung damage, a Covid diagnosis is extra scary. I hope it continued to be a mild case and that it resolved quickly without any long Covid issues. I also hope that both of you haven't been hit hard by the recent hurricaines. Stay well, stay safe, and I look forward to next week's show!
Gehres was actually a Commodore when he took command of FRANKLIN. He'd been promoted while commander of Fleet Air Wing Four, a role he took over from my grandfather. Gehres was aggressive and had his patrol planes drop a few bombs while on reconnaissance over some of the outlying Kurile Islands, which was hyped up in Navy journals as a bombing of the home islands. Chaplain Joseph O'Callaghan had served well under my grandfather while aboard the RANGER. There's a photo of him in Robert Cressman's book "USS RANGER" of him working as a censor (a usual role for the ship's chaplain) while reviewing cards sent home for Mother's Day. My grandfather had ordered the crew to write home after the Germans had falsely claimed the RANGER sunk on Easter Sunday of 1943.
Wonder if Herman Wouk had heard about the skipper from friends who served aboard Franklin and decided since he had served on DMS's to change the story a bit. Oddly in the novel after the Court Martial the Caine takes a Kamikaze hit and its Willie now the XO who takes charge and keeps her afloat while Fred McMurrys character abandons ship. Also DAMNED glad to find out who the sailor on the deck getting last rites is and that he survived.
I'm researching a book on FRANKLIN. I checked out that rumor (it does seem logical) but it's not true as far as I can tell. I believe Wouk served on destroyers during the war.
@@MGlennRoss yes Wouk did serve aboard Destroyer Minesweepers during the war and the setting is the Cobra typhoon it seems he has a bit of Franklin story interweaved however it may be it happened more often during the war in then more popularly known but always wondered if he wasn't in an O Club hearing surviving officers gas about the situation and how the Captain continually from day one blamed everyone but himself for failures.
I was 14. I remember seeing the Franklin passing thru the Panama Canal on the way home. I was at the movies. Unbelievable the wreckage. The ship looked like a pretzel, twisted wreckage, the entire ship. And she came home under own power.
Awesome Torpedo Tuesday. The story of the chaplains reminds me of an amazing chaplain named Father Albert Braun. He was wounded in WWI Europe, and received several medals. Was chaplain for the CCC in New Mexico and West Texas. Became active again prior to WWII. Was shipped to the Philippines with the New Mexico bunch. Was captured at Corregidor. Survived prison camps and hell ships. Was in Japan at the end of the war. Stayed in the army and was chaplain for one of the Bikini bomb test......his story goes on and on. I recommend the book "God's Warrior" by Dorothy Cave.
"Men." You use that word when describing these sailors. I keep reminding myself that these souls were mostly teenagers or barely into their early twenties. Yet the courage so many of them showed revealed that manhood is not defined by age. What horrible conditions these sailors suffered. Shame and more shame on the arrogant excuse for their skipper. Your blow by blow description of what happened to the Franklin is so enlightening and heart rending. Thank you for all your work in researching and posting this and all other episodes.
Gentlemen: Thank-you for your very gripping telling of this story. You literally had me perched on the edge of my chair. Two other scoundrel-captains also come to mind: Captain Bligh and the fictional Captain Queeg. Why this man's utterly incompetent and disgraceful conduct was rewarded, rather than being punished, astounds me. Did he, by chance, know where the mythical "body" was buried? Well done, Commodore, under such trying physical conditions! Bravo Zulu.
From research of my dad’s experience in the Navy, he was assigned to Task Force 38.2 in DD539 USS Tingey. He talked about, when he was alive, about being on watch for 7 straight days. As a RdM2 he was required do be at general quarters. He was just get off duty when the airplane hit the Franklin.
What a sad tragic story. Seth I'm with you on this one--no Navy Cross and get ready for a Court Martial after you are relieved from command. Bill l hope you have a mild case and quick recovery. Thanks for another great episode. I certainly understand why you wanted to treat Big Ben separately when covering the strikes on the home islands. Way too much for a short blurb on what happened. Excellent work!!
I think I read somewhere that when the captain wanted to file desertion charges, some lawyer hired by some crew members, used the fact that if that were true, Admiral Davidson should also be held accountable for desertion......I don't know if that was true or not. Great show as usual
That story is recounted in the book, "Lucky Lady: The World War II Heroics of the USS Santa Fe and Franklin. It is true, but not the entire story. (Adm King was p!ssed, at Gehres for one reason.)
This is an important thing to think about when selecting officers for command. A bad commander WILL destroy a unit, one way or another. Then, they usually blame someone else for their screw ups. We had a CO when I was in who had a squadron All-call on a Saturday morning, with no notice. We were all worried something had happened since the last time it happened was when one of our own lost his life. Nope. He just wanted to yell at us for three hours because WE were messing up his chances for promotion. Thanks to him our MC rate was lower than it should have been,and anyone who had a chance to get out did. We had a guy get out at 18 because retirement pay wasn't worth it. A bad commander is one of the most dangerous things you can have in the military, and tends to get people killed and battles lost. I'm glad you spent the time to relate this tragedy. I never heard about any of this anywhere. This needs to be taught in training on how NOT to command.
Thank you gentlemen for another excellent and informative episode. I knew some of this story already but a more detailed account is always welcome. Get well soon Captain Toti
I was somewhat astounded that Gerhas was given command of the Franklin at all considering his reputation. How was he not reprimanded for his letter to those who left the ship under such dire circumstances and then awarded a medal? It seems much like McAurthur it was not to have any negative press at all during a time of war. Such heroism by men such as those aboard the Franklin and so many others in our countries history are what make so many of us proud for have those who serve in times of conflict. Another great episode. Thank you both.
First, feel better Captain Bill. Second, I always am amazed by those pictures of the Franklin listing like that and not sinking. I also agree that the ship should have been preserved, I first heard of this as a child and watching a documentary on her just before she was to be scrapped. Wonderful episode as always
In my day, we were required to attend Aviation Firefighting training each time I rotated from shore to sea duty. It was very important training, but not very fun…think, “black snot” in copious quantities. As for Franklin, an amazing exercise in perseverance, valor and dedication to their shipmates and their ship. As an aside, both Franklin and Bunker Hill never returned to service following respective repairs. The Navy considered various modification plans, but eventually it became clear that time and technology overcame both ships and they were eventually scrapped. Interestingly, Bunker Hill was moored for a number of years, and used as an electronics test platform. A part of the Franklin’s flight deck was used to repair USS Bennington ( I think ? ). Father O’Callahan also wrote a book, “I was chaplain aboard USS Franklin”, which I read in high school.
I'm surprised to hear you say that. I'm watching in the UK, just an hour or so after this was first posted. There was an ad at the start, I'm an hour and 16 minutes in, and there's been no second advert. I've watched many many of these, and there are few adverts.
Thank you for this detailed story and explanation. IT Disturbs this SSN 677 veteran no end that the captain was so derelict in his command and yet wanted to charge the crew who got off of desertion.
I first learned about the USS Franklin when I was eight or nine years old from a television special in 1968-ish. The story of Franklin's ordeal was one of the many stories of heroism that motivated me throughout my military career. I rediscovered it by chance on RUclips 10 or 15 years ago. It's titled "The Ship that Wouldn't Die - The story of the USS Franklin, Big Ben, and the men her brought her home". As I recall, it has many of the men Seth and Bill mentioned - absolutely fascinating hearing it from first-hand sources. Walking through where they were, to include the one hero who went back three times to lead the men to safety. What brought them all back together was her scraping - many tears were shed. Very interesting to also see where they went in civilian life - One became a priest, I think the fellow given last rights? After this episode, How can I not watch it again!? Maybe with my nine year old Grandson too. Take the hint - GO WATCH IT and marvel at these men.
I found a copy online of the book you recommended(Inferno). A terrific account of the two disasters that struck the Franklin. Thanks for the recommendation and the great podcast episode.
Seth,bill another great saga ,I was a victim of a tyrannical captain in my early service it was hard ,fortunately he was succeeded by a true professional
The biggest sign of the discipline and professionalism of Franklin’s crew is that the captain survived the voyage back.
Words fail me right now...as an australian the sacrifices made by these men every day is an owing..thank you so much
My Father-in-Law was aboard his ship, USS Poole (DE-151) when Franklin arrived in New York. I remember him talking about how impactful she was and the effect it had on his ship's company. Shortly after USS Poole went into the Brooklyn Navy yard and they started painting the dazzle pattern on her. "Pop" said he knew his war wasn't over and shortly after they departed for the Pacific where he remained well past the end of the war. Pop always spoke about how the site of Franklin, scorched and battered scared the hell out of him. After 18 convoy escort trips he lost his fear of the U Boats, but the idea of going into the lion's den of Japanese suicide planes really unsettled him.
My Uncle died on the Franklin. I had another Uncle come back from two sinkings in the Pacific, but unable to have a family or keep a job because of the mental trauma he suffered for the rest of his life. Two other Uncles suffered gunshot wounds in Europe, one carrying a billet in his spine for the rest of his life.
My uncle came home from the war with serious PTSD and became an alcoholic. I wonder if anybody has ever studied and written about the psychological impacts on the World War II combat veterans. Many of the kids I grew up with (including me) had very bad relationships with their fathers, many of whom were abusive alcoholics.
I wonder how much this widespread generational divide contributed to the rise of the hippie movement, flower, children, anti-war activists etc.
Many soldiers and marines went to Vietnam because of their respect for their father’s service in World War II. Those of us with poor relationships with our father didn’t have this influence and were more likely to become activists and draft Dodgers.
@@davidtrindle6473wow. I think you're onto something. Fascinating.
This is something I have never heard of, ie, generational impact of mental illness. I certainly would not rule it out. Therapy for mental illness is something which is a mystery to me. Likely for many psychiatrists, too. All I know is that those who suffer from it really and truly do suffer.😮
@@DanColley-qy3wi Yes. And their families also suffer.
@@heynsenene and @davidtrindle6473 there are some cultural commentators and philosophers who have noticed this kind of thing, but I haven't found a study. There's a small channel called The Anadromist who discusses the collective psychological trauma of "The Greatest Generation" and specifically what their collective silence about their trauma (and crimes, where applicable) would have effected in their children (the children of the 50s, 60s, and early 70s). I'm linking below but the video is titled "How We Got Here #2: Postwar Era)
ruclips.net/video/7OHRn6kC0fA/видео.htmlsi=oKCpHCwLf9TgtkTE
Thanks Seth and Bill, Bill hope you are over covid by now. My best friend, we met in the 4th grade. We are 68 now, so we have been friends, more like brothers since then. His Uncle was a Seaman 1st class on the Big Ben on that fateful day. His name was Marion McSmith Seaman 1st class. He was 18 years old going on 19. He was one of the 300+ in chow line when they were hit. He survived the attack and became a very sucessful Ford, Lincoln and Mercury dealer in the NW part of the US. I only met him once as he died very young (52) because of cancer caused by all the smoke he endured that day. I called my friend Mike tonight and told him about this episode and that he should watch it. He has a hard time with the history of Big Ben. This one I told him he should watch because of the way you two men put it together. You guys are great and thank you very much for the research and effort on every episode. See you next week.
Regarding the heroism of USS Santa Fe, it's worth keeping in mind that she had been part of CruDiv 13 with USS Birmingham the previous October. Birmingham had pulled alongside USS Princeton to help fight fires, but suffered over 50% casualties when a massive ammunition explosion gutted the Princeton. The captain and crew of the Santa Fe probsbly had an excellent idea what they would potentially be exposed to in aiding the Franklin.
Yes, Captain Fitz did ask Capt. Gehres if the Franklin's magazines had been flooded. Thinking incorrectly they had been, Gehres replied in the affirmative.
Ahh Tuesday morning…. you guys have no idea how many of us look forward to this. So as I sit here in South Florida, watching this monster getting ready to steamroll us, I think I’ll take a few minutes to relax and listen to another fascinating episode.
Yes stay safe! As I am a Texan I have been through 17 name hurricanes between Florida , Louisiana, and Texas I have always said the worst hurricanes are in October and once a hurricane gets into the gulf you never know where it is going! Stay safe. I pray for Florida! I started with Carla!
Hope you came through the storm in good shape.
Seth's sharp southern witticisms really lighten the mood. When it comes to the heavier aspects of the WWII Pacific topic.
Thank you guys for this excellent episode. My Dad was a Gunner's Mate on the Franklin - on the quad 40 mount on the bow, under the front of the flight deck. Dad was a plank owner and was on the Franklin on March 19th. Dad's gun crew was one of the crews that was secured from their post under condition 3. Dad was in his bunk when the bombs hit. The men in his berthing compartment thought that the Franklin's 5 inch mounts had started firing, but quickly learned that the hangar deck was an inferno when they tried to leave their compartment. Fortunately, they were able to leave the compartment via another hatch, and they went out to the quad 40 bow mount. Thanks again for keeping the memory of the Franklin and her crew alive. Walter Smith.
I am 72 and have been reading about ww2 since 4th grade.
It is rare for me to find new informative, balanced, and insightful material.
Having stumbled across your podcast on RUclips, I went back and binged all of it.
It is incredible. The honest accounting of command decisions alongside individual actions is amazing.
One of the most stunning revelations is the incredible abundance of not only bad commanders, but the consistancy of their being awarded at the expense of better leaders.
It speaks to me of the unstoppable juggernaut of the USA once its collective mind is set on a goal.
I don't think any other belligerent in the war could have survived such blunders given the lack of overwhelming logistics they posessed, both human and material.
Dont know your future plans. All good things end. But I seriously hope other podcasts come along that take a note from you, anf do such thorough, researched, and deep dive accounts.
Kudos gentlemen.
I'm 71 & say 'ditto'.
One story about the incompetence and arrogance of Captain Gheres you left out was the incident that occurred when Big Ben arrived back at Pearl Harbor. When a tug pulled alongside to put the Harbor Pilot onboard to guide the ship to her morning, Gheres refused permission for him to come aboard. His response was “After all I’ve been through, I’ll take her in myself.” He then promptly slammed the ship hard into the side of the dock, damaging both the hull of his own ship and the mooring area. And of course he blamed it on the docking crew and not himself. That guy was a massive narcissistic jerk.
As a retired Navy sailor this episode brought back some terrible memories and even triggered some PTSD in me. All I want to say is bless those men who served on this ship. Been there done that.
Father O’Callahan was a professor at Holy Cross when I was there and is buried in the cemetery on campus. My understanding is that he initially refused the Navy Cross because of the captain (and is the only one to do so in WW2) and was later awarded the MOH. We all knew that he was a hero on the Franklin but the details, other than “he saved the ship”, were never that clear. Thanks for giving more details.
Father Joe taught two other MOH winners, John Powers and Thomas G. Kelley while teaching at Holy Cross.
The fact that two of his students went on to receive the MOH speaks volumes about Father Joe's character. I've known some truly spiritual people. Every one of them has *_lived_* the principle, _"I exist but to serve."_ It doesn't rub off on people who are so focused on themselves that they never figure out how much joy eludes them by not caring about what's best for others. But for those who are ready, a man like Father Joe is the right teacher at the right time.
I only recently read of Powers.....his obsession with getting a hit because "the people back home were counting on us"....reminds me of Dick Best. God bless all our heroes.
In my opinions that father Conway from uss Indianapolis should have gotten the MOh for his actions for keeping morale up from group to group ministry last rites
I have read Fr O'Callahan's Book "I was the Chaplain on the Franklin" and found it a good read.
My grandfather’s older brother was KIA on the Franklin. I have his congressional gold star pen. Thanks for another great episode.
Hats off to your uncle
@@jamesnorment4283 sorry for your loss! 🇺🇲🫡
Gentlemen, I just wanted to thank you both, and your guests, for such amazing content. It might sound strange, but I go hiking having downloaded your episodes - it’s a dual smile event.
For context, I’m a Brit living in HK and the offshore hiking trails have lots of WW2 memorials and respect (initially Brit AA and some very useless shore big guns - not helpful facing south, a la Singapore).
My grandfather was a pre- 1939 RAF flyer, European theatre [Wing Commander], Malay/Borneo, and post ‘West’ Germany aid supplies.
Just for casual note, he was the first RAF pilot to insist his dog joined him ‘up wheels’. To the best of my knowledge, and his words, the service made the first dog parachute - hopefully not self deploying!
Thank you also for getting me through some challenging moments - your acute and accurate podcasts have always levelled my ship. Please keep it up and know how far you reach
Feel better Capt Toti.
The real failure regarding the Franklin’s new skipper is that his superiors heard what he said and didn’t remove him on the spot.
If they made an accurate movie about the USS Franklin, it would receive universal condemnation for portraying such an unbelievable heel of a villain in the character of Leslie Gehres.
@@williampage622 he made admiral. Disgusting
The aversion to airing the Navy's dirty laundry wasn't limited to Chester Nimitz. I'm shocked that no one had balls enough to say,"No way this jerk takes command!"Several admirals present who had nothing to fear from this jerk Captain.
USS Franklin, Never Forget 🎗️💝
@williampage622 He was promoted to Admiral. Disgusting
Capt. Toti my best wishes for you with Milton inbound. Be safe sir.
Best thoughts for you and family. Hope you all stay safe
Seth's battleship tour really brought home to me what any damage would do to the men aboard a warship. All the little offices, service rooms, pantries, galleys besides the essential systems and armaments all just packed in there. Never having been aboard a ship( except for a U-boat once), I never had an understanding of shipboard life and how f'd up it would be to have the place shot up, blown up or otherwise ruined...
Seth and Bill - This episode is equal to Iwo Jima. I saw the footage 60 years ago and I m staggered that so many men survived. The chaos of war and the bravery of so many.and so many saved. The amazing fact is the Franklin survived.
Bill, your brilliant comparisons of Captains of the Indy and Big Ben are spot on. The circle of blame stops on the dude with Eagles on his collar. McVey had several reasons for his ship getting sunk.
Franklin had NO EXCUSES.
Another episode from my favorite podcast.
You’re doing a stellar job fellas!
During my tour of duty in Southeast Asia I had the pleasure of participating in sleep deprived operations. C-130 crews would rotate in from CCK AB on Taiwan to Nakhon Phenom AB, Thailand for a 3 week stint. We would fly a schedule of 3 days on and a day off. We would normally get up at 4 AM on a 12 hour crew day then spend the evening at the club consuming mass quantities of gin. The club would close at 1 AM where we could build a budding hangover before our show at Operations for that days flight schedule. We would use the day off in recovery for the next 3 days. The first cycle for young men in their early 20s is sad but the effect are cumulative. The 3rd and 4th cycle are absolute drudgery. We pilots would swap naps duty on the 5 or so 45 minute sorties that would typically make up an airlift mission. Our Navigator would set an alarm clock to make sure someone would be awake at our destinations. War is hell whether it is the one you have or the one you make.
Another great episode.
This episode really brought about some emotions. Confusion at the condition 3 decision so close to Japan, to a feeling of dread as the attack was underway, to sadness and feeling terrible for the hell that the crew was enduring on that ship, to pride knowing the Chief’s were keeping the ship going and brave men like O’Callahan those aboard the Santa Fe were helping save lives, to anger at the inexcuseable behavior of Gheres. I got really angry hearing about Gheres. Anyways, thank you Bill and Seth for another excellent tuesday, I am glad these stories are being told. 🇺🇸
I want to thank you both. Watching your videos awakened in me a desire to go to the WWII Museum. My husband is from Avoyelles parish. He wanted to come to visit family. Being a good wife, I said sure. But first, I wanted to go to the museum. We went today. It is a very well done Museum. Full of great info. Beautifully presented. I had tears in my eyes through the exhibits. To do it justice would take two days.
You guys continue to amaze with your research and content. I always look forward to 4 a.m. on Tuesday morning.
Get well soon, Captain
Franklin: How does one defend against such power?
Enterprise: A wise master does not reveal all his secrets at once. In due time, my apprentice.
Wouldn’t Enterprise say something like…you need SoDak or North Carolina, otherwise you end up like the rest of the Yorktowns.
@@scottl9660 wasn’t Showboat nearby?
the damage control school at the Reserve station in Seattle uses the movie about the Franklin as case in point.
@@brucefelger4015 what movie?
My first painting lesson in Art College in Dublin in 1979 was tutored by Charles Brady , a survivor who suffered severe leg injuries(perhaps as a result of an armoured deck being blasted upwards, he told us he had to learn to walk again at 17years of age (I think he an ensign). Charlie availed of the GI bill of rights , attending a Art College later working in MOMA , in 1959 he moved to Dublin where he married and painted, he told us of his memories of Jackson Pollock and Brendan Behan, I think he had PTSD and was fond of a beveredge . He died aged 72 , smoke inhalation on the Franklin a contributing factor, he was missed by all .
@@ivanconnolly7332 it has only been recently that I have reflected upon the mental injury that generation suffered from post war. Both those serving and those at home. They were the adults and leaders through the second half of the 20th C. I want to go and see what has been written on how that impacted their health, view of society, international relations etc.
Thank you Bill and Seth.
Great episode on a story that needs to never be forgotten, gentlemen.
Fascinating episode. Gheres sounds like quite the piece of work.
Get well soon Captain Todi.
While in college 86-89 I was in an ROTC class and I compared the action and command of this incident to the battle of little bighorn. There are definate similarities in command and control, and individual acts of heroism.
I don't know if you know, but Gehres' nickname in Alaska was "Custer of the Aleutians."
Any service member who solicits, for himself, an award for valor should automatically be stricken from any such list.
Thank you for another great episode.
Excited for another episode.
Thanks!
So video on Saratoga 1945 damage next? Even though she saw fewer action unlike the Big E, she should have some credit for one of the last pre war carriers that have survived the war.
Skipper..."Rashomon" is the Kurosawa film sir.......and i'll say as our other shipmate said, Get well Bill
Excellent work. I'd heard about that captain, and it was worse than I thought. Amazing stories, beautifully told. Many thanks!
Another terrific episode. The heroism displayed by the Franklin's crew defies description. Simply an amazing story of human courage.
Good morning from out side the cone of uncertainty in Fort Walton Beach, Florida.
I can't help but think of the families of the fallen sailors and marines aboard that ship finding out about their captains atrocities and bucking for the MOH. It really angers me. In a lighter note, I can't get enough of this podcast!!!!! I watch and re watch whenever I can!!
Seth, your point about the design of the Essex class carriers is very apt. The amount of punishment that the Franklin absorbed was astronomical, most of it from her own weaponry. The sheer fact that she was eventually able to return to Pearl Harbor, then the West Coast of the US, and finally to the Brooklyn Navy Yard under her own power was a testament to both the design and the work of the fine shipbuilders who created these historic vessels.
I'm from Brooklyn, New York and grew up in Coney Island, and through family friends I met several men from the neighborhood who had worked at the Navy Yard, some of whom stayed on until the Navy Yard shut down for good in 1966. And one of them worked on the Franklin when it was there to be repaired. He, and many other yard workers, were shocked when the Franklin docked. They couldn't believe that the ship made it home with all of the damage. The sad part is that some workmen found body parts while working in the ship and it haunted them for a long time.
The story of the USS Franklin was something for the ages.
Thank you.
By far the best 2 person episode yet.
2:00 am in the Great Pac NW. Sleeping at night are for those with nothing better to do. Insomniacs Unite !!
Just watched the episode on the USS Franklin twice, as usual,you guys hit this one out of the park, I gotta get that book "Inferno" by Joseph Springer, very well done gentlemen, Capt. Toti, hope you feel better
Another excellent book is Lucky Lady: The World War II Heroics of the USS Santa Fe and Franklin by Steve Jackson.
Rashomon, 1950
Thanks for all you do gentlemen.
29:55. Correct me if i'm wrong. But wasn't the bomb that hit Enterprise a dud? It hit the forward elevator, bounced off the island and landed on the flight deck. Before the crew rolled it overboard?
Wow! What a story of survival. Another example of the fighting qualities of US sailors in WWII. Thank you Bill and Seth.
Guys, For me this was a horrific yet compelling podcast. I had to take a break twice during this. You've managed to convey the horror and suffering yet alongside this the acts of humanity and bravery of many of the crew. I've listened to most of your podcasts however this really depicted the reality for many crews of the ships involved during the war. I would add it was much the same whatever side you were on. I, being from the UK wasn't aware of this action before. The actions of the Captain dumfounds me especially accusing his crew of tacit desertion. Was any inquiry held afterwards and was the Captain held responsible in any way. Could the Admiral not have called the entire taskforce to action stations even though he was likely aware that all the other ships already were. This would have forced the Captain to do likewise without seeming to have directly ordered the ship over the Captains head. As for trying to block the priests Medal of Honour. Just how arrogant, vain and self righteous can one be.
Wonderful job guys. Bill is 100% correct, the captain should have been relieved, not rewarded with the Navy Cross. Trying to block Fr. Joe’s MOH was beyond unconscionable. Can’t believe this man received such a prestigious command with such deep character flaws. Salute to the Franklin’s crew for achieving the impossible. Thanks again for another memorable episode.
I have been looking forward to this episode ever since you guys mentioned doing it in the Carrier Raids episode mostly to see how you would treat the Franklin's "intrepid" captain. You guys did not disappoint. The sheer level of pigheadedness and loonicy that man demonstrated makes the fact that this ship was not lost even more incredible and is a testament to the other officers and crew and their efforts.
You guys are the best.
Thank you for another great episode. Let this be another lesson all of us can learn from.
I am always happy to see the story of FRANKLIN get more visibility. I want to add some comments to the story about the captain of the Santa Fe (CL-60). First, his name was Harold Fitz, not Harold Fritz, as Joe Springer named him throughout his book. Captain Fitz was in charge of the rescue efforts crried out by Pittsburgh, Miller, Hunt, etc. You didn't mention it, but he brought his cruiser in, sideswiped the carrier, and then used his engines to hold it in position as they used the broken antennae masts to transfer men. He would be awarded the Navy Cross for his actions that day. As for Lt. Gary, he didn't stop with just rescuing the men in the mess hall; he later rescued more men in a forward compartment and then led men down to the boiler room to restart the engines.
This episode is a golden example of why The Unauthorized History of the Pacific War podcast is vitally needed.
From where I'm sitting, typing this right now, I'm a fifteen minute ride from one of the high schools Geheres attended, Newark High School, in Newark, NY, about a 45-minute ride east from Rochester, NY. The other high school he attended was West High, that building later repurposed into my alma mater Wilson Magnet High in Rochester. Geheres didn't make it out of the 8th grade in either of them. About all he was good at was paddling his canoe on the Erie Canal and Sodus Bay. His mother helped him lie about his age (he was 16) so he could join the NY State Naval Reserve in Rochester, beginning his Navy career.
At Newark High, they have an exhibit, honoring Geheres, containing some artifacts from his career. In 2010, on the 65th anniversary of the "incident" ("event" if you prefer), the newspaper of record in Rochester, the Democrat & Chronicle, published a guest essay by an author who's name I don't feel is worthy of mention.
In both the exhibit in Newark, and the essay in the paper, Geheres is just described as a skillful hero who saved his ship and over 2,000 of her crew. No mention whatsoever of the monster he was; inexplicable to me for a mustang officer who enlisted with an 8th grade education at 16, and somehow got commissioned, got his wings, and rose to command of an Essex-class carrier; or any of the steps he failed to take to protect his command before Big Ben was struck.
This is not a recently uncovered story, though it's rarely told in the depth Seth & Bill go into here. As Seth said at the outset, the definitive account of the near-loss of Big Ben is long out of print. But there are still people here who claim to have not gotten the memo.
I don't know. This one hitting literally close to home as I watch it makes me feel as though I need to apologize for my area's negligence in exercising our power to face unpleasant facts, and see Geheres for who he really was. An incompetent monster.
Awesome, thanks!!
1:32:49 - A snippet of that clip of Father Joe praying fervently over the wounded Bob Blanchard has intrigued me ever since it first appeared in the video montage intro to these podcasts. It's such a powerfully poignant moment, even though (before this episode) I never knew the story behind it. But now that its anonymity (to me) has been erased and the story of Father Joe's heroic leadership brings it to life, it's so much more meaningful. Heartfelt thanks, and superbly done, Seth and Cap'n Bill! - Vito 😎
It is so refreshing to listen to someone who know about how ships are handled. Kudo to Bill
Finally got a chance to finish this week's video--another excellent presentation of a harrowing tale that runs the full gamut of emotions. You have such a talent for bringing this history to life. Thank you for your dedication to telling these stories that *must* be remembered. Captain Totti, I hope you're feeling better now, a month out from the taping of the show. With your history of lung damage, a Covid diagnosis is extra scary. I hope it continued to be a mild case and that it resolved quickly without any long Covid issues. I also hope that both of you haven't been hit hard by the recent hurricaines. Stay well, stay safe, and I look forward to next week's show!
Thank you
Hope you feel better soon Captain Toti. Thanks again for a great episode.
Gehres was actually a Commodore when he took command of FRANKLIN. He'd been promoted while commander of Fleet Air Wing Four, a role he took over from my grandfather. Gehres was aggressive and had his patrol planes drop a few bombs while on reconnaissance over some of the outlying Kurile Islands, which was hyped up in Navy journals as a bombing of the home islands.
Chaplain Joseph O'Callaghan had served well under my grandfather while aboard the RANGER. There's a photo of him in Robert Cressman's book "USS RANGER" of him working as a censor (a usual role for the ship's chaplain) while reviewing cards sent home for Mother's Day. My grandfather had ordered the crew to write home after the Germans had falsely claimed the RANGER sunk on Easter Sunday of 1943.
VERY well done gentlemen! When a ship survives this kind of disaster it is due to the crew. Bill, I hope that you have recovered fully by now (Oct.8)
Wonder if Herman Wouk had heard about the skipper from friends who served aboard Franklin and decided since he had served on DMS's to change the story a bit. Oddly in the novel after the Court Martial the Caine takes a Kamikaze hit and its Willie now the XO who takes charge and keeps her afloat while Fred McMurrys character abandons ship. Also DAMNED glad to find out who the sailor on the deck getting last rites is and that he survived.
I had that thought myself , though ultimately the Skipper of the Caine is sympathetic .
it was based on typhoon Cobra and the Bridge scene on Monahan or Hull I believe
I'm researching a book on FRANKLIN. I checked out that rumor (it does seem logical) but it's not true as far as I can tell. I believe Wouk served on destroyers during the war.
@@MGlennRoss yes Wouk did serve aboard Destroyer Minesweepers during the war and the setting is the Cobra typhoon it seems he has a bit of Franklin story interweaved however it may be it happened more often during the war in then more popularly known but always wondered if he wasn't in an O Club hearing surviving officers gas about the situation and how the Captain continually from day one blamed everyone but himself for failures.
I was 14. I remember seeing the Franklin passing thru the Panama Canal on the way home. I was at the movies. Unbelievable the wreckage. The ship looked like a pretzel, twisted wreckage, the entire ship. And she came home under own power.
Anotherw fantastic episode! The history I never knew!
Outstanding synopsis gentleman !
Awesome Torpedo Tuesday. The story of the chaplains reminds me of an amazing chaplain named Father Albert Braun. He was wounded in WWI Europe, and received several medals. Was chaplain for the CCC in New Mexico and West Texas. Became active again prior to WWII. Was shipped to the Philippines with the New Mexico bunch. Was captured at Corregidor. Survived prison camps and hell ships. Was in Japan at the end of the war. Stayed in the army and was chaplain for one of the Bikini bomb test......his story goes on and on. I recommend the book "God's Warrior" by Dorothy Cave.
"Men." You use that word when describing these sailors. I keep reminding myself that these souls were mostly teenagers or barely into their early twenties. Yet the courage so many of them showed revealed that manhood is not defined by age. What horrible conditions these sailors suffered. Shame and more shame on the arrogant excuse for their skipper. Your blow by blow description of what happened to the Franklin is so enlightening and heart rending. Thank you for all your work in researching and posting this and all other episodes.
Gentlemen: Thank-you for your very gripping telling of this story. You literally had me perched on the edge of my chair. Two other scoundrel-captains also come to mind: Captain Bligh and the fictional Captain Queeg. Why this man's utterly incompetent and disgraceful conduct was rewarded, rather than being punished, astounds me. Did he, by chance, know where the mythical "body" was buried? Well done, Commodore, under such trying physical conditions! Bravo Zulu.
From research of my dad’s experience in the Navy, he was assigned to Task Force 38.2 in DD539 USS Tingey. He talked about, when he was alive, about being on watch for 7 straight days. As a RdM2 he was required do be at general quarters. He was just get off duty when the airplane hit the Franklin.
This was the ship my grandfather served on. One of my best childhood memories is going to the 60th ship reunion in DC with him.
You guys do a great job! My Husband and I learned a lot. This is the only place that we have heard about all of the details. Keep up the great work!😊
New sub, love your work on this piece of history gentlemen. Watching you take turns with discriotions appeared seamless. Thank you! 😊
What a sad tragic story. Seth I'm with you on this one--no Navy Cross and get ready for a Court Martial after you are relieved from command. Bill l hope you have a mild case and quick recovery. Thanks for another great episode. I certainly understand why you wanted to treat Big Ben separately when covering the strikes on the home islands. Way too much for a short blurb on what happened. Excellent work!!
70 episode season, yes please
I think I read somewhere that when the captain wanted to file desertion charges, some lawyer hired by some crew members, used the fact that if that were true, Admiral Davidson should also be held accountable for desertion......I don't know if that was true or not. Great show as usual
That story is recounted in the book, "Lucky Lady: The World War II Heroics of the USS Santa Fe and Franklin. It is true, but not the entire story. (Adm King was p!ssed, at Gehres for one reason.)
@@MGlennRoss"Admiral King was pissed" could be a subtitle for the entirety of WW2 naval history 😄
This is an important thing to think about when selecting officers for command. A bad commander WILL destroy a unit, one way or another. Then, they usually blame someone else for their screw ups. We had a CO when I was in who had a squadron All-call on a Saturday morning, with no notice. We were all worried something had happened since the last time it happened was when one of our own lost his life.
Nope. He just wanted to yell at us for three hours because WE were messing up his chances for promotion. Thanks to him our MC rate was lower than it should have been,and anyone who had a chance to get out did. We had a guy get out at 18 because retirement pay wasn't worth it.
A bad commander is one of the most dangerous things you can have in the military, and tends to get people killed and battles lost. I'm glad you spent the time to relate this tragedy. I never heard about any of this anywhere. This needs to be taught in training on how NOT to command.
Thank you gentlemen for another excellent and informative episode. I knew some of this story already but a more detailed account is always welcome.
Get well soon Captain Toti
50° 27' 0.0036'' N and 30° 31' 23.9988'' E
Gentlemen,
Well done. Another bracing episode. Very moving and highly informative.
Thank you.
V/r - IB
I was somewhat astounded that Gerhas was given command of the Franklin at all considering his reputation. How was he not reprimanded for his letter to those who left the ship under such dire circumstances and then awarded a medal? It seems much like McAurthur it was not to have any negative press at all during a time of war. Such heroism by men such as those aboard the Franklin and so many others in our countries history are what make so many of us proud for have those who serve in times of conflict. Another great episode. Thank you both.
First, feel better Captain Bill. Second, I always am amazed by those pictures of the Franklin listing like that and not sinking. I also agree that the ship should have been preserved, I first heard of this as a child and watching a documentary on her just before she was to be scrapped.
Wonderful episode as always
marvelous episode gentlemen
In my day, we were required to attend Aviation Firefighting training each time I rotated from shore to sea duty. It was very important training, but not very fun…think, “black snot” in copious quantities. As for Franklin, an amazing exercise in perseverance, valor and dedication to their shipmates and their ship. As an aside, both Franklin and Bunker Hill never returned to service following respective repairs. The Navy considered various modification plans, but eventually it became clear that time and technology overcame both ships and they were eventually scrapped. Interestingly, Bunker Hill was moored for a number of years, and used as an electronics test platform. A part of the Franklin’s flight deck was used to repair USS Bennington ( I think ? ). Father O’Callahan also wrote a book, “I was chaplain aboard USS Franklin”, which I read in high school.
RUclips really makes it hard to watch these videos with ads every 5mins but I made it through.
Adblock is your friend
Wow. Not one ad here in the Philippines
@@joebombero1 I was watching the time during the video and it was 2 ads every 5 minutes. Kind of hard to watch a documentary video that way.
I'm surprised to hear you say that. I'm watching in the UK, just an hour or so after this was first posted. There was an ad at the start, I'm an hour and 16 minutes in, and there's been no second advert. I've watched many many of these, and there are few adverts.
Thank you for this detailed story and explanation. IT Disturbs this SSN 677 veteran no end that the captain was so derelict in his command and yet wanted to charge the crew who got off of desertion.
Great show gentlemen.
Never heard this story before. Thank you for bringing it to my attention.
My after work “Unauthorized” routine…. A relaxing sunroom, a glass of bourbon, a good cigar and some great history.
Awesome learned much from this
I first learned about the USS Franklin when I was eight or nine years old from a television special in 1968-ish. The story of Franklin's ordeal was one of the many stories of heroism that motivated me throughout my military career. I rediscovered it by chance on RUclips 10 or 15 years ago. It's titled "The Ship that Wouldn't Die - The story of the USS Franklin, Big Ben, and the men her brought her home". As I recall, it has many of the men Seth and Bill mentioned - absolutely fascinating hearing it from first-hand sources. Walking through where they were, to include the one hero who went back three times to lead the men to safety. What brought them all back together was her scraping - many tears were shed.
Very interesting to also see where they went in civilian life - One became a priest, I think the fellow given last rights?
After this episode, How can I not watch it again!? Maybe with my nine year old Grandson too.
Take the hint - GO WATCH IT and marvel at these men.
If you add the purple 💜 there we're almost 1000 medals awarded for this one action
@ 1100 purple hearts. 808 posthumously.
I found a copy online of the book you recommended(Inferno). A terrific account of the two disasters that struck the Franklin. Thanks for the recommendation and the great podcast episode.
Feel free to stretch it out boys.
Seth,bill another great saga ,I was a victim of a tyrannical captain in my early service it was hard ,fortunately he was succeeded by a true professional
Great coverage of a infamous event