The Irishman | Is Frank Sheeran a Sociopath?
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- Опубликовано: 26 янв 2020
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In this video essay we look at Martin Scorsese's 'The Irishman', with references to other gangster films like 'Goodfellas', 'Casino' and 'The Godfather'.
Co-written and edited by Luís Azevedo (Beyond The Frame)
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Is this De Niro's most complex and subtle performance, ever? Has Scorsese become a transcendental filmmaker of late? Is Hoffa at all admirable? We discuss this and much more in our latest podcast - bit.ly/2RSGw1o
The Discarded Image complex? There’s nothing complex about him. Acting is amazing but he’s a simple minded sociopath with no guiding light except self preservation and promotion in a do what you’re told community. Your analysis says as much. And the movie beats this horse to death. I find little depth to these characters and frankly the story. The filming, acting, execution is masterful. The story thin and repetitive within Scorsese’s body of work.
My answers in order: 1) possibly, yes, and I'm glad someone else noticed! I just started watching but I hope you point out the character's stuttering...which I think betokens his internal conflict, his inability to be his own person rather than follow orders, and all of that. It happens most when he's obviously feeling guilt-ridden. I thought it was brilliant. ) [Edit: You do! 6:20 ish. Stammering is correct; not stuttering.] 2) He's certainly more interested in the more obviously spiritual/moral last couple of films. 3) Sure. A mixed bag. :
I love his performance
Yes he is a sociopath
The Discarded Image Scorsese became transcendental long ago my friend
DeNiro trying not to cry when they tell him Hoffa is going to get killed is probably the best acting in the movie.
TheGrouchDnD Those last 40 min or so of The Irishman makes it a Masterpiece!! Pure cinema! Totally deserve the Oscar for Best Picture, sadly it will go to a lesser film.
TheGrouchDnD agreed
@@fogliasIrishman was great Parasite was lit though, I wasn't mad that it won
@@foglias Although I would have loved The Irishman to win, Parasite was a worthy winner.
@@foglias lesser film? It went to Parasite, a film that deserved it just as much (some would even say more).
And I CANNOT believe that people say Robert DeNiro didnt do much acting in this movie. It's that subtlety that flies over everyone's heads. If you read up on Frank Sheeran, I believe, DeNiro played him to a tee.
Because they think acting=making faces
I mean there's a reason why people love joker.
@@bauhaus1961 that's a more theatrical performance, that doesn't make it bad...
@@TheDRODOR Oh i'm sorry. I can understand that what i wrote could easily be misinterpreted. So Marco Gianesello wrote "Because they think acting=making faces", so i responded with "I mean, there's a reason why people like Joker. What i meant was that a lot of people do not care about subtlety.
@@bauhaus1961 right, i still think it's an unfair comparison
Joker is a comic book movie
Irishman Is a biopic
DeNiro not being nominated for an Oscar for this performance is a crime.
People being so profoundly stupid as to think he can act is even worse.
Yep its a shocker. Not only that, Phoenix is the favourite to win, for playing a comic book character in the shitfest that is Joker.
@@pretorious700 You're an abject loser who's probably butt hurt because DeNiro made fun of your cult leader.
@@pretorious700 what makes you think he can't act xD
@@pretorious700 there is something wrong with your brain.
It astounds me how little analysis material there is on The Irishman (on RUclips). It writes itself.
For me, there were obvious signs throughout and before this. But the Gallo hit was the tell tale, he had to do it in front of the kids. I don't care how insane and cold blooded you are. If you have kids and you can bring yourself to commit acts you wouldn't want your own to see, it makes you a hypocrite first and foremost. But ultimately that was the sign that Frank's conscience was vacant.
It has only just come out, give it time lol Themes and sub text shouldn't be obvious the first time around, where's the fun in that?!
@joe8075 I think that scene was bad but otoh it's a film and you have to suspend your disbelief. Personally, I think Scorsese should have cut it differently so as not to expose De Niro as so old.
@@skyfryer1223 I was disturbed when Frank was hosing the POW's down after having them dig their own graves. Sure he never seems to be someone to kill out of rage, but he effortlessly makes killing a job just like someone else changes a tap.
@joe8075 People often forget two important things about that scene. First of all is the biggest thing, Frank had bursitis in his spine from the war and it got worse the older he got. Realistically, it would have looked like an old man stomping someone out. Deniro did well physically in other scenes so still see this as intentional, accidental or otherwise. Secondly, there's something about the clumsiness that is in tune with other acts of violence in Scorsese's films, it might have looked 'unbelievable' to audiences who found it distracting from the performance but for me it was the other way around. I was too distracted with the performances to notice it being as such.
Ultimately, you can let a single scene and the efforts of very fearless filmmakers to make something where violence means something, anything, regardless; it still has humanity in it. The reaction shot of his daughter felt like a knife in my gut.
De Niro’s truck in the beginning is green just like the coffin at the end, signifying he was dead all along. He was never truly alive, just following orders.
I was frustrated with people not recognizing De Niro's performance as much as Pacino and pesci
SANDEEP ROSHAN al Pacino stole the show
@@ryanakan1441 Yes he did, Pacino deserved that best supporting actor award in my opinion
It seems to me Pacino stole the picture. You get the lazy DeNiro performance.
@Kahinur Nessa cuz Pacino did it masrerfully
SANDEEP ROSHAN in every de Niro performance I always here people crediting other people
Joe Pesci was fucking phenomenal. I've never such subtle acting from him. The scene with him and Keitel discussing about the laundry job. His expressions: flawless. He doesn't say a word and it's still obvious what he means.
Not only are there layers in the film itself, with the themes and cinematography overlapping, but also the acting has multiple layers. I loved De Niro's stuttering. It was jarring in the best possible way. I feel as if some people thought his stuttering was him fumbling the lines :(
It was also refreshing to see Pesci play a more discreet and measured gangster who pulls the strings from above instead of the ones in Casino and Goodfellas which were violent sociopathic maniacs
@KillaCrossover318 Frank Sheeran isn't supposed to be the driving force of the movie though. He's a tool in the hands of Hoffa and Buffalino, and De Niro plays it flawlessly. Sheeran isn't the exciting character, he's the gun they use to create the action.
I know the stutter was intentional, but yes honestly it FELT like him fumbling.
@@darthkek1953I thought it was him fumbling. It was that realistic
De Niro's performance in this film went under the radar and it's a shame. His part is easily the most difficult one and he absolutely nails it. That telephone call scene near the end of the movie is devastating and some of the best acting I've seen in a long time. There will never be anyone quite like him.
Andy Mattioli kinda inevitable when you’re literally next to Al Pacino and Joe Pecci.
To be honest I think when his performance really hit me was the last 30 minutes.
@@theonlymexicanman4422 agree, which is essentially the most important segment of the entire movie
@@Andy97K those 30 minutes proved once again why he is one of the best actors of all time. He outshined Phoenix as Joker and most lead performances this year in those 30 minutes
@akshay Viswambharan English is not my native language.
@akshay Viswambharan I am from Switzerland. I am fascinated by Mobhistory and informed myself about the history of this film before I saw it in the cinema and I appreciate it much more because of that. Also experience it in the cinema is a whole other experience than through the TV or IPad. It was a emotional roller-coaster for me. I laughed a lot, lost my breath for 10 seconds, got thrilled, cried, reflected my life and left the cinema with a shocked body and mind. I never felt it that way with a film.
Deniros phone call to Hoffas wife after the murder was the best acting hes done in 20 years
@juneaug Lok Pesci and Pacino were just as fantastic. Tf are you smoking?
I love when Pacino says "If you got iiiiiit, a TRUCK brought it"
I always quote it randomly. I just love how he said it
@@sansbudget It's like Pacino is doing a Pacino impression, because that speech is so Pacino
SOLIDARITY!!
Al Pacino at his best
@@vitocorleone1462 Al Pacino is great but Marlon Brando will always be top actor.
Frank's like a GTA main character basically
True
I've always thought that Robert De Nero would have been the perfect Michael De Santa if they had done a movie of GTA 5.
@@1Chasg joe pesci would be a good trevor if you know what I mean lol
@@1Chasg Michael de santa based in Robert de niro phisycally and in his characters in Heat & analyze this. Also, when de santa got mad at trevor, cuz he kidnapped madrazo's wife, the scene it is very similar to goodfellas anger of Jimmy cuz Tommy killed spider.
Franklin from V
“I heard you paint houses”
“Yes sir I do”
**Shows up the next day wearing dirty overalls, holding two large paint cans and a long paint brush**
Lol or the opposite. Hoffa really was just looking for a guy to paint his house
Oddly, my favorite moments in this movie are the quiet moments we see Frank spending with Hoffa in his hotel room before he goes to sleep. These really quiet conversations that seemingly mean nothing but mean everything by the end of the movie.
You know I noticed this the more I saw the movie, all these small moments of how Hoffa had trust in Frank as a friend and a companion. It really shows how completely cold Frank’s heart and soul was, but the thing is Frank never fully realized this, he’s a sociopath
"Frank doesn't understand his own choices anymore than those men who followed orders straight to the grave--he does the same."
What a great observation. That sentence sums up perfectly the scene of the soldiers digging their own graves. The scene happens early in the movie. I didn't understand that scene at first or why it was included, but by the end of the film you realize that it was used both metaphorically and to foreshadow the ending of Frank's life. His life story is him dutifully following orders like a good soldier. He has the illusion of power and succession as he's the one who holds the gun and does the killing. But as he slowly moves up the ranks of the crime oligarchy, he ignores the obvious fact that he is actually the one in the hole now and slowly digging his own grave.
He admitted being a hitman for the mob was like being in the Army. Scorsese seemed to drive the point that he could detach himself and just follow orders like how he was taught by the Army and being in war.
Yeah.
Thats a sociopath thats been made out of ptsd. Hes mostly dead inside. His only real friend was hoffa and he killed him.
Good work fellas! Great breakdown of a great film.
" Guy was an interior decorator "
Fueledbywingsnbeer Sanchez his house looked like shit
damn now this sopranos quote makes finally sense... after all these years
Guy killed thirteen Mussolini facists
He’s playing an Irish catholic dad. Having grown up with one myself I’d say that Deniro really hit the nail on the head with this one
He wasn't Irish. He was an American with a father of Irish descent and a mother of Swedish descent.
@@effygoodwin37 Yeah! Just like Cagney! Dal Riadan Irish. Gallowglass mercenaries. Centuries later...across the Atlantic Ocean...Frank Sheeran."The sons of death", they called them. Pray for them! God Bless and keep the Faith!
De Niro’s performance here is so underrated. He is unbelievably good in a very subtle way. It’s not obviously flashy but the more you watch the movie, the more depth and nuance you notice in De Niro’s performance. It’s up there with his 70s roles imo...
I thought he chose the green coffin because it was the color of Jimmy Hoffa's last car when they came to pick him up to kill him.
Idk, maybe he just likes Green
That's interesting; I didn't notice the car was green.
That's interesting; I didn't notice the car was green.
I think it could be both. Definitely intentional on both parts.
@@maxeyre2024 I don't deny the Irish argument, but i wouldn't doubt both! He admitted he loved nice cars when he mourned losing his, so I wouldn't put it past him to associate with these features in his life. Like leaving the bedroom door open aa Hoffa did.
The Irishman is genially a fantastic film, that makes an epic of its runtime. Yes, it is long, but damn does it deserve every second in how it builds to that final shot. I have honestly found that Scorsese has only gotten better as he aged... he has gotten more contemplative in his storytelling, whether it is the contemplation on depravity and how we view it in Wolf of Wall-street or the mediation on faith and how cultural it is in Silence.
Man, I wish this man would never stop.
Also, this video is really well done, just saying. The editing is on point.
Hey, I dont know you at all and this may be weird, but I like the passion you have when you're talking about a movie like this. Would you be up for a chat sometimes on movies? I dont really have many friends who are into movies and the craft of filmmaking as it seems you do.
Connor Heaton Talking about the craft of filmmaking is a passion of mine too!
It’s so much fun to analyze what really goes in to a creative, imaginative way of storytelling.
I also agree that Scorsese has really evolved and become more exciting and dramatic as time has gone on.
Anyone realize Hoffa's wife is the babysitter from Goodfellas who wouldn't fly without her lucky hat?
Yes sir I did she was good in the role.
The ending of this movie was extremely remeniscent of "The Green Mile" in the way that both protagonists choose orders over what they truly believe is right, and they both have to live in a changed world with people they really don't know since all of their friends/family have died
Orders you mean executing Coffey? I believe I caught John saying that he's tired of this world, feeling pain and suffering. And Paul offers John to set him free (which seemed like a sincere offer, meaning he chooses to do what's right over orders) but he declines.
Or am I misreading it and John only said that to make it easy for Paul?
This movie is so bleak when you get into it. It’s shocking how different this movie feels from something like Casino, which was all about high energy violence and gambling. It has more in common with a movie like Once Upon a Time in America (Another great De Niro flick) than Goodfellas.
The people that complain that this is a remake of all of Scorsese’s other gangster films are the same people that wait in line for days to see a Star Wars sequel. This movie left me absolutely wrecked after I first saw it. So much that I had to find a actual theater to watch it in again to give it the respect it deserves.
How did you watch it in a theater?
@@samrobinson387 there was a limited release in the theatre before it was released on Netflix. I saw it in the theater too
1:00 Scorsese was in the music video for Michael Jackson’s ‘Bad’...?! What?! That’s awesome... never woulda known...
Well, he directed it, after all.
People who criticize the few lines Paquin has are actually diminishing her role, which is one of THE MOST important ones.
Frank's life in the film has three epochs: Befriending Russ, befriending Hoffa, and the killing of Hoffa which led to the long brewing estrangement from his daughter.
So yes, she said only a few lines, but her looks and expressions spoke VOLUMES. Acting is so much more than the lines you deliver.
These people are morons who should never speak about film again.
It didn’t really land emotionally for me personally because I never felt like he had much of a relationship to his daughter to begin with, so when she “stops speaking with him” I was thinking, “were they ever really close in the first place?” Idk that part felt emotionally flat for me regardless of the acting talent.
@@papajohn6839 Just because they were never close doesn't mean he doesn't love his daughter, or want to connect with her eventually. Killing Hoffa made sure that would never happen.
wright96d Yeah I can definitely see that perspective. I just never felt like him wanting to be close to his daughter was established all that well. He never took any steps to try and get close to her. I mean even Joe Pesci’s character tried, and when she didn’t reciprocate, that worked for me. I’ve only seen the movie once, though, so I might get more out of it than I did
I mean, of course, he tried to get close to her towards the end but I wasn’t emotionally invested in their relationship at that point so it kinda felt ehh
@@papajohn6839 100% The attempted reconciliation with his daughter(s) towards the end, daughters we has absolutely no relationship throughout the movie, was obviously shoehorned into the script in some vain attempt to give his character an arc. Paquin is an excellent actress but completely underutilized in this film.
3:08 Jack Nicholson's BBC still haunts many of us to this day :(
There is a lack of expressiveness and emotion in his character's interactions and De Niro only expresses anger and rage convincingly. In some scenes, he says nothing. It is very disturbing.
War will do that to a man.
if Frank is an emotional character, he couldn't possibly be doing his job - "painting house" right?
13:47 movie?
"Once Deniro gets his first job as an interior designer" awesome line! 🔥😂❤️👍
He killed 16 Czechoslovakians..Guy was an interior decorator.
His house looked like shit
I saw that movie. I thought it was bullshit.
Beautiful Pine Barrens' references.
The fact DeNiro didnt get an Oscar for this makes me want to paint some houses
I was exhausted after a long week of work and fell asleep the first night I watched this film. This last week I’ve watched it about three times and it’s amazing.
"Frank's grief is palpable in his confession to the priest", what? When asked about the families he shrugs it off "I didn't know them". Water under the dam meaning who cares, it's old news. It carries no weight anymore, no significance to him. Hoffa doesn't weigh on him, he only mentions that there was one target he knew. No one he killed was anyone to him, except he acknowledges that he did kill someone who was connected to him. That's not a sign of empathy in my opinion, it's a statement of emotionless fact. You didn't mention how at the end he asks if there's anything he can say or do to patch things up with his daughter. That's the final bit of evidence he has no empathy. He's not dumb, he knows he's lacking what other people have. He knows there is some way to fake it. He asks that because he doesn't know how to fake it since he's never bothered to fake it before. He's always been cold blooded and at the end he's asking how to appear warm blooded and he gets no answer to that because it's far too late to worry about that now- something he also doesn't understand. That's my view on it.
flibber123 yeah if he was actually remorseful he would’ve said it. The fact that he cut Peggy out of his obituary shows that he wasn’t some remorseful guy, he was petty and resentful of her. Till the end he wouldn’t admit that the way he lived was wrong, just kept trying to excuse it. He was a bad person. Just because killing Hoffa was hard for him doesn’t change the fact that he did it in the end...
I agree
I watch a lot of breakdowns of film on RUclips and this is one of the most well edited, written, and conceptualized ones.
Your videos are so full of charm editing, pacing, and effort. This is some quality content.
This is the best film analysis I've seen for this movie.
I'm just now realizing that "water under the dam" might've been a sort of Freudian slip. The common phrase is water under the bridge. That phrase carries even greater symbolism in this movie when taking a look at Frank's beginnings.
I don't want to dig too deeply into it, maybe it's nothing, but I find it interesting.
Water under the ....Water over the dam. Nice catch, I hadn't picked up on that mixed metaphor. Now I'll have to go back and see if he does it at other times....
Fantastically edited and a fantastic viewpoint on already awesome characters.
Fantastic video, is what I'm tryna say
Good you have got back to what makes your channel stand out and why I subscribed. A nice first take on this film and some great riffing of Scorsese's back catalogue with your text.
Dude your editing and sound mixing is so good it feels like im watching a youtube video made by scorsese himself.
Wow this was amazing! Made an already emotional film even more powerful
man your editing and visual design is sick. a+
Movie of the year for me, the script is subtle in many ways, the violence is there, the cast was insane, THAT SCENE BETWEEN HOFFA AND TONY PRO.
Scorcese made another masterpie e.
This channel deserves more attention!
Great video, subbed and liked.
heard he was interior decorator, the man killed 16 Czechoslovakians
His house looked like shit
Awesome video. Really lays it out great! I'm a huge fan of this movie. Was my number one of the year and it's so different to Scorsese's other gangster flicks. On the surface it may look like just another Goodfellas or Casino but how you laid this out was perfect!
The character never stopped being a soldier who does what he's told. That's about it. Good movie but the feeling after it ends is emptiness and regret.
@Carthago Delenda Est He confessed but his attitude was basically whataya gonna do. Door is left open yeah.. Open ended, no closure, he doesn't wanna stay in the dark, but his story is absolutely over.
@Carthago Delenda Est I think the open door (besides being something Hoffa did) shows that he doesn't want to be alone. But he IS alone.
great editing in this video man! very entertaining stuff.
The scene where he tries to comfort Jo, being forced to lie to her about Hoffa's fate is some of the best acting in the film.
The editing of this video is ON POINT!
Small detail but I really liked what you did with the titles in this especially the rack focus at 9:25
I noticed in the first tracking shot it shows Sheeran's hand where he is still wearing Frank's watch and Russ' ring, long after both are dead.
Jimmy's watch
I have to say, that was some wonderful advertising/sponsoring at the end there.
Yes, the character is clearly empathically disturbed. Slightly hinted that it was because of his experiences during the war (or he was always like that, who knows).
Talking about the character De Niro played, not the actual Frank Sheeran
My initial reaction on reading the title of the post was, "Is the pope a catholic?".
I'm glad I chose to watch however. A thoughtful meditation on the ideas and mores of this movie - thanks for posting.
this video has such great editing
I clicked for the title, and stayed for the editing.
This is honestly the best analysis video on The Irishman I've seen so far
Okay so it’s probably normal, but this is the first video of yours I saw so you may do this type of editing a lot, but it is phenomenal
Brilliant essay. Well done.
This is pretty great analysis. Well done and well crafted video essay. Its also ironic that Frank essentially fails in two of his missions to a) speak sense to Hoffa and contain him b) finally effectively warn him of the real danger he faces. His last mission, to kill Hoffa.. sadly, he has no issues completing.
This is a great video good job👍
Amazing analysis friend!
Enjoyed your analysis of the Irish Man nice one mate liked and subscribed 🎉
Best cinema film analysis channel on RUclips, no question about it.
i thought "water under the dam" had a very very important different then "water under the bridge" you figure it out
great video, keep it up!
Wow man! You open my mind, seriously, your videos make me always think a lot
Irishman hits real hard when it comes to the realism and if the cast would've been like 20 years younger it would feel even more true to the Italian American mob world. Still you have 3 legends in a movie and a 4th that's been producing this piece of film history.
"Go home & get ur fucking shinebox " will forever be iconic, be iconic
Great Video!
The editing in this video is insane
Great video! Thanks!
this made so many sense to the movie. thanks
Fantastic Video. You notice the subtleties of the film on repeat viewings and that’s what makes it a brilliant film. It’s not “Goodfellas” or “Casino” or even “The Departed” but it doesn’t have to be. It’s a late classic from
One of the true artists of cinema. And yes WHERE is DeNiros Oscar nod. It’s a crime.
This movie pulled the rug from underneath my feet . De niro plays the soft spoken killer so well. Pesci and pacino were very entertaining and every line delivery was a work of art.
Next time ill watch it with my family.
Hi @The Discarded Image - FANTASTIC essay, really great job and insight. I can't find the music playlist to this video. The link above sends me to a signup page?
Sociopath doesnt feel emotions like the average person, seeing how Frank was haunted the rest of his life by the action he took, i would think he isnt A SOCIOPATH BUT a person who had to make a hard chocie between his death or one of his friends death, as most humans would do reguardless of what you say/think, frank is willingly to give his friend life up to keep his own, and he never forgets about the chocie he made , thus he isnt a sociopath, i.e. a person who uses others and disreguards them once their use is fullfilled.
This is the best review of The Irishman I have seen, very thoughtful. I think the film is Scorsese's masterpiece.
It's a great video, but the stammering while talking about the WW2 experience isn't likely just because he's shaken recalling the memory, it's because the book the movie's based on has Sheernan mentioning multiple times he had a stammering/stuttering issue that multiple individuals pointed out to him in an affectionate way. DeNiro actually does the stammering thing all throughout the movie, including the voiceover passages.
Excellent video essay
This was an excellent video, thank you
All people ever talk about with this movie is the 30 second grocery store scene and it drives me crazy. Its a great movie
1000th like. Great video! Subbed
I know I'm super late but I loved this video regardless. You know, at first I didn't care much for The Irishman, I watched it to fill my Oscar nominated films cuota of the year and thought it was just another gangster flick about men being violent; I appreciated the editing and acting but that was it. In quarantine, though, I watched again, and again and six more times. At first I didn't know what draw me to it, it's most certainly not my kinda film, but I found a weird comfort in it. Your video helped me understand why.
I think I just understood the deafening silence I have experienced throughout my life, the reasons for previous relationships sinking, and what I see reflected back at me in the eyes of humans who truly lack the ability to experience empathy, empathy is work, work I cán do, especially when I am going to benefit from it, even extremely long term like a marriage. I do love my wife and daughter, but it's just something that in order for it to be 'on' I need to do work, i'm not a monster, it's just thát, where for everyone it's a passive ability, mine is active and in fact I should feel lucky to have it at all.
hope this helps anyone out there experiencing the same.
You missed one of the most important moments, the door left open in the last shot... the film ends on a question - Is he ever able to feel remorse and find absolution? Even his final choices seem more like pragmatic concessions than actual decisions.
beautiful video
Would you mind having a detailed Soundtrack Used List in the Description rather than a link to a music site?
all i see is a Sign In Page and no list, it would be of better utility to have an actual text track list in the description for the audience to at least copy paste and search on youtube if the viewer is curious.
RUclips links are generally useless since music is constantly being removed and replaced all the time anyway.
But the usual: Track Name - Artist Name , type listing wouldn't hurt.
Please, some of the soundtracks you utilized in this essay were very enjoyable and the accessibility to some of the songs will undoubtedly alter over the years of this essay sitting here.
which by the way, great essay.
DeNiro was absolutely powerful in The Irishman. My favorite link win the whole film has got to be
“It is was it is”
Right off the bat...no. He clearly felt guilt. “What kind of man makes that phone call?”
TheMuttOfHTown what phone call ?
amirhosein sari the phone call he made to jimmy’s wife.
Great video
such a great illustration
Terrific Channel
Once again another amazing essay
Good work
Really good video
Huge influence from Once Upon A Time in America I feel. You should do a video on that movie, really underrated in my opinion.
Amazing video.
Holy fuck, your point about how long Frank served in the war is so important to his character, and so easy to miss.